[New York Post] – Mon, 23 Sep 2024 19:43:36 GMT
- Knicks get brutal Mitchell Robinson injury update
- Sources: Knicks’ Robinson to miss start of season
- Knicks Mitchell Robinson out until December or January after ankle surgery: Sources – The Athletic
- Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson will miss start of NBA season as recovery timeline gets pushed back, per report
- Knicks C Mitchell Robinson won’t return until December or January from ankle injury
[Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 24 Sep 2024 02:21:00 GMT
3x NBA Champion The New York Knicks Must Consider Trading For
[CBS Sports] – Mon, 23 Sep 2024 19:42:24 GMT
NBA player rankings: Top 25 players in East, from Knicks’ Julius Randle to Bucks’ Giannis Antetokounmpo
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 23 Sep 2024 22:18:44 GMT
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[Posting and Toasting] – Mon, 23 Sep 2024 15:25:16 GMT
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[FanSided] – Mon, 23 Sep 2024 19:27:38 GMT
A Warriors-Knicks trade that satisfies a major need for both sides
73 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.09.24)”
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5788858/2024/09/24/knicks-mitchell-robinson-replacement-trade-candidates/
Our new Athletic beat writer does what he often did on the Pistons beat, and proposes fake trades to solve our center dilemma. As he acknowledges, none of the options are great.
I think Precious is being slept on too much, even by our front office*. He had a solid run at PF in February. The only problem was he played in lineups with Josh Hart and a center, so the offense stunk.
We’ve seen that dude play 40 minutes a night. And the most impressive defense I saw from the Knicks in the entire postseason was that 2nd half in game 4 against Philadelphia when Precious & OG swallowed up Embiid and Maxey.
This is not the guy I want going against the Thunder in the NBA Finals, but for three months in the regular season he’s going to be just fine.
I don’t see Leon trading Deuce until it is determined that he has to. I expect him to see how things play out for a couple of months. Maybe the new guy doesn’t value him in the same way…and maybe rightfully so.
Thanks for the link Alan
By the way, my wife I agree 100% percent with you that wait times between seasons for some shows is ridiculously long. It doesn’t have to be that way. And it costs viewers. We watched House of the dragon for one season. The second season took so long to come out it was like watching a new show because the back story was only vaguely remembered, and we gave up after one episode.
If you look at the game log for that stretch Precious started, he averaged over 3 steals/blocks per game.
I isolated the 4 games from 2/10 – 2/22 where he played center bc Hartenstein was injured; it’s a small sample but jesus…
40.75 minutes, 16 points on 68% eFG, 12 rebs, 2.75 steals/blocks.
I am kind of annoyed we just gave him the human trade exception deal. With all the minutes he should get this season his value could easily increase.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/achiupr01/gamelog/2024
Precious looked very inconsistent to me. One day he looked great, a fully capable starter, and other days he couldn’t do anything.
Maybe that changes if we play more switch and less drop (which we should with Mitch out), that’s what he & OG did in TOR and what they used to flummox Embiid & Maxey for that one quarter. However, I don’t believe Precious can run pure drop night in and night out, which is what Thibs is going to try and run.
What EB said. Precious can look highly cromulent for stretches and then be 8′ out of the play when it counts. If he were consistent we’d be totally fine except against the elite, big centers.
That’s why he isn’t the long term answer but it seems perfectly fine for when Mitch is out.
Agreed. I’m not one of the people freaking out about our situation. We’ll be at least. 500 over the first couple months, maybe a little better. We’ll be fine.
I’m more worried about the Sims/Hukporti minutes than the Precious minutes, but even when Precious plays I’m not sure we’ll be able to field a strong defense despite having Mikal & OG. The C position is too important.
We should be fine anyway, but it won’t take much more for things to go south quickly.
I like Precious’s effort, but imo he’s a tweener.
He’s too small to guard the big better Cs in the league and he doesn’t have enough of an outside shot to be a PF. To me, he’s more of a very good 3rd string player or just an OK backup for either position.
I’m freaking out because I think the probability of Mitch returning at 100% and sustaining it without injury is now lower and we won’t have either a starter or very good backup for any playoff run.
The likelihood of Mitch doing that before the news update was already effectively 0%
We’re set up well to do a lot of switching, especially in the lineups where both Mikal and OG are on the floor. Lineups with Mikal-OG-Hart are even more switchable.
One of Ariel Hukporti’s known strengths is his ability to play drop coverage. That and his ability to set a good hard screen are his most intriguing attributes. He’s raw right now, but he’s got a shot to be a useful piece because he has skills we need.
I’m actually excited* to see what Precious can do in a switch heavy scheme, and don’t think he’s hopeless in drop.
I’m not worried about our situation as it relates to the regular season games Mitch will miss. Precious/Sims/Huk(???) can hold down the center minutes passably when we’re not deploying the Death Lineup. But for the playoffs, we’ll either need a fully healthy Mitch, which is looking more and more like something that only exists in theory, or another move.
*excited in a “silver lining” sense, not a “this would be my first choice” sense.
If you ask me, based on his social media posts it sounded like he was getting ready for camp and just found out they are going to delay his return a couple of months. That suggests the rehab did not go as well as expected.
Same.
Again… he & OG absolutely smothered Maxey & Embiid in a critical playoff game. I want to see how that works over a large sample.
Precious is quite mercurial I agree. He does some decent stuff out there on D and then sometimes looks completely lost. Maybe Thibs can coach him up.
Did you think he was going to make it through an 82 game season and the playoffs without an injury? Because I have zero faith he can do that.
Wow, talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations: “Relax guys, we might have a shot at being over .500 for the first half of the season where we went all in!” This would be a nightmare scenario for the fanbases of BOS, or OKC, or really any other franchise that hasn’t been a laughingstock for the previous 25 years.
If we play at a .500 pace for the first half and the predicted 53-win place for the second that puts as at exactly… 47 wins and the play-in. Hello darkness my old friend….
Pags after you clean out Vegas, can you throw us a few bucks to upgrade our servers from your private island?
We were .500 after a couple months last year with Randle, Hart, RJ, and Grimes all playing like shit. We’re going to be a lot better than that.
Joel absolutely has to be Public Enemy #1, 2, and 3 right now. He didn’t technically injured Mitch, but that tug was definitely more than enough to re-aggravate what was already a weak area of injury at minimum. Fuck that guy.
Speaking of Embiid..he looks like he’s gonna be even more or a problem. Looks to have lost around 20lbs. If that makes him quicker and able to play longer, the league is gonna be in trouble
I don’t bet on sports. Not in a position to give FanDuel a 9-month loan for an amount of money that would matter to me, even if I’m very confident I’m right.
I thought his rehab was on schedule and he might miss some time early in the season but not nearly this much. I haven’t see any reports on what’s going on, but like I said, based on his social media it feels like his rehab is not on schedule. That’s what made me more negative. Whatever the chances were he’d be fine and make it through, I feel that they are lower now.
We need a starting caliber C or damn close as long as Mitch is on the team if we are serious about contending this year. Most of the guys being talked about won’t cut it. That’s why I dismiss them.
Precious is alright. The problems with playing him at C are that he’s just not big enough for some matchups and it means you’re going to be playing Sims, who is one of the few remaining guys on the roster who straight up stinks.
Strat you seem very championship-or-bust. I don’t think this is the year for that. We’re not going to win the title if Mitch isn’t healthy for the playoffs, and Mitch probably won’t be healthy for the playoffs.
Also I don’t know what you see on his social media that makes you think is rehab isn’t going well. All he posts about is country music, trucks, and God.
Strat would like a good starting center under the tree for Xmas. He has made that very clear, to Santa and to others.
We’ve been building this team a step at a time for several years now. This would have been year 1 of the window to championship contention except we lost I-Hart and Mitch has become problematical.
We are not OKC full of young 20 year olds where the biggest problem is probably going to be keeping them all. If they keep all their key players (may not), their window is huge.
We have players in the their mid to late 20s at or very close to their peaks already. A couple of them (like Hart) are very reliant on expending extreme energy to be very productive. Our window may be closer to 3-5 years because we will probably have to start replacing a couple of these guys by then.
That’s a nice window, but it kills me to waste even a single year of it because we don’t have a starting C. We don’t need a “star” C. We just need a legitmate starter.
Ho! Ho! Ho!
Mitch or no Mitch, If the Knicks are hovering just above .500 after two months, I will be in full panic mode. It will suggest that OG and Mikal were not worth anywhere near the billion picks and best young players we gave up for them.
I will be very disappointed if we are anything less than 10 games over .500 by the midway point in the season unless something unanticipated happens, meaning something that doesn’t involve Mitch or Julius.
Biggest series of the year for the Mets starts tonight. But no matter how it goes, when they were 11 games under .500 I would have signed up for this in a heartbeat.
It’s a much tighter balancing act than you think, Strat. It’s not like if we get Jonas Valancianus then suddenly we’re as good as the Thunder. We’ve still got a long road ahead and there’s not a lot of assets left. I don’t think it’s wise to spend them on the marginal gains that are available.
This is one of the many names being thrown around that I would veto.
Maybe at his very best he would fill the role well enough, but at 31 he’s not the answer.
I think you think the task is much simpler than it is. It’s not like there’s 30 “legitimate starters” out there and all we have to do is offer Deuce and Dadiet to get one.
Two-way center is the thinnest position in the NBA, and none of them are on the market right now.
Last year was year one of the window.
“If the Knicks are hovering just above .500 after two months, I will be in full panic mode. It will suggest that OG and Mikal were not worth anywhere near the billion picks and best young players we gave up for them.”
50-50 if not higher that Barrett surpasses Anunoby as a player this coming season. If not this season, it won’t be long thereafter.
They dissipated assets badly to get two somewhat redundant players. Unpopular opinion around here, to be sure, but in basketball terms it will become clear with the passage of time. Unfortunately.
WIth no rim protector, there’s now no real Moneyball, which takes Thibs pretty badly out of his comfort zone. Potential choppy waters ahead.
Halfway through the season is 41 games. To be 10 games over .500 is at least 26-15, which is a 52 win pace.
Is that your prediction or do you want to go higher than that? Because that sounds like a floor to you. How good do you think we are without Mitch?
Yep.
And that’s why I don’t get the whole “Eh, this doesn’t matter” reactions paired with stuff like “They’ll be around .500 because of this, but that’s fine, this doesn’t matter.” They don’t go together.
No one is saying you have to throw yourself off of a balcony in despair over the news, but the idea that saying “This is bad news” is an overreaction is silly to me (note that you’re not saying that, Z-Man, your comment just inspired me).
Hollinger, shortly post-Olympics:
I remember in the very early Pat Riley days, prior to the Charles Smith trade and Rolando Blackman signing, every Knicks fan who called into WFAN was convinced that any superstar wing could be acquired in a trade for “Oakley, Wilkins, and picks.” We are now at that stage regarding centers, only it’s “Mitch, Deuce, and picks,” or “Deuce, Dadiet, and picks.”
The Knicks under Thibs have always played much better in the 2nd half of the season.
E, not ruling out the possibility that RJ turns out to be “better” than OG although I would be surprised if it happened. I have been far from a RJ hater but am also rnot a believer in either Olympic stats or stats posted on horrible teams. But if the Knicks are .500ish even w/o Mitch, that would bolster your “massive overpay” argument.
EB we just paid essentially 5 unprotected firsts and Grimes for Mikal, and RJ and IQ for OG. If losing iHart and Mitch is not at least balanced my the Mikal trade, it was a massive overpay. I don’t see how it can be argued otherwise.
There should no longer be any silly debate about the OG trade, we’ve already seen how much insanely better this team is with him instead of RJ.
That said, my actual point is that Mikal WAS worth making the move. I saw enough of him dominating the league in his 2022-23 stint with the Nets to believe in him. I also saw enough of healthy OG’s impact to believe in him. Those two guys along with Brunson, Randle, Hart, DDV, and Deuce should be enough to beat most teams. So yes, I see us as a 50+ win team as is, even without Mitch.
Well… we have 1000 minutes of RJ shooting 39.2% from 3 while shooting 63% from the ft line. We have 9000 other minutes of him being highly inefficient. I’m going with the small sample size theater being the aberration. And his defense still sucks… couldn’t be happier to see him elsewhere.
To the contrary, BBA, after seeing Immanuel Quickley sign a max contract it’s more than fair to suggest we discounted our assets too much in that trade.
IQ & Evan’s expiring probably gets that trade done. Quickley was that valuable. RJ & the pick seem like unnecessary premiums.
RJ can be a good player and still be worse than OG. The gap on the defensive end is massive.
one positive in our favor at the moment – thibs doesn’t really ask a lot from his center…
be a physical presence inside, know your assignment, and rebound…two of those our teachable…
I keep re-looking at huk’s physical profile and thinking he’s in a great situation to learn how to play defense, both him and kolek…
huk has some great size,and he doesn’t seem flat footed…make it work thibs and team…
and who knows, maybe precious will turn in to taj 2.0…
my expectations are that we acquire some “vet” (cody zeller, jonas valanciunas) in december…
I have a feeling though that leon and the front office may go with a younger and better player – somehow?
Somebody call me when RJ becomes a good player.
Not trying to be a wise guy, but what did you see on IQ’s performance last season that justified 32.5M for 4? His .564 TS%? His 0.6 BPM? I just don’t see that contract, but I’m no expert.
I want my view to be clear.
IMO, we have enough scoring, playmaking, rebounding, a solid 6th man, perimeter defense and a deep enough bench to contend.
IMO we don’t need a star C.
In fact, I don’t think it would help all that much to add another scoring big unless Randle was part of the deal.
What we need is a guy that can rebound well on both sides, defend the P&R a bit, protect the paint and score 10-12 points a game efficiently around the basket. If he can make plays or shoot in midrange that’s gravy.
It should not take a ton of assets to land a starting role player C – unless of course we are dealing with Ainge.
Leon’s history is one indentifying the perfect player for this team at each position, patiently waiting until he’s available and then paying the price he has to pay to bring him in. Sometimes he gets a good deal and sometimes he overpays a bit, but he gets the right guy.
I don’t want get away from that strategy or wait until next year to get the right guy at C. So if we have to give up young player we’d like to keep and even a pick, that may be what it takes.
RJ was a bad fit on the Knicks with Randle and Mitch and some of our other players. The spacing was never right for him or his teammates. Plus he’s not a very good defender, at least not consistently. OG was a much better fit because he added a ton of space, better defense and better versatility. If RJ does better in Toronto because of the fit and some development, more power to him. We are better off with a healthy OG.
Trading Quickley was a loss for us, but with DDV taking over 6th man status and Kolek looking like a real backup PG, we should be fine.
Strat, those guys make $20-30 million now.
And if they don’t it’s because they’re on a rookie contract which is too valuable to trade.
Not everyone gets paid what I-Hart got paid.
Capela could do the job for a few years just to throw one more name out there besides Kessler.
I’m not buying that Capela is off the table. The Hawks are going to rebuild.
There was some talk of Brook Lopez being available. He could do the job for a year or two.
There are other guys out there that can give us what we need, but very few of the names being tossed around are adequate.
A guy who fits your bill is Ivica Zubac, for instance. He just signed for $20M a year and the Clippers probably would not give him to us if we offered Donte, Precious, and all our 2nd round picks
Toronto was bottom-5 in defensive rating last year thanks to RJ, so I’m pretty happy with the trade.
Donte is a massive upgrade from Quickley as a sixth man, both via stats and eye test. He balled out last year against starters and is on a value contract, especially compared to what Quickley now makes.
I loved Quickley, but I have to admit, not giving him a raise and opting for DDV instead was a brilliant move by Rose & Co.
Strat, you’re giving no consideration to the matching salaries required to complete trades. A Clint Capela trade, for instance, looks like Donte + Deuce + Precious. Or Hart + Mitch.
I know that can complicate matters, but as we approach the trade deadline, things change. Precious can be traded. Mitch will hopefully be back and could be part of multi player deal where we get someone similar back but gain more security in terms of availability. The other team will have to be someone that’s rebuilding and willing to give up a veteran to take a shot on Mitch and get someone besides Mitch with some value.
I just don’t want to waste this year.
IMO we have to make a serious move this year. Leon has to earn his salary this year. 😉
Mitch put out another cryptic message today.
https://x.com/TommyBeer/status/1838675591152963774
Exactly. Given Mitch being out and Julius taking time to get back to his best, I think 22-19 is likely. And to answer Brian, I don’t think it’s that bad because we already expected Mitch would be out until December, so it’s probably just an extra month, and ultimately the time we really need him is for the playoffs. The less he plays at the beginning of the season, the better. And I combine that with BBA’s observation, which is that in EVERY season, Thibs’ teams play much better as the year goes on. So if we’re around .500 and then Julius rounds into form and Mitch comes back and is healthy by the All-Star break, we’ll still win 50 games and be where we need to be for the playoffs.
If we do better than that early in the season, great! It’s possible that our offense will more than offset our weakness in the middle, and our OG/Mikal defense will be good enough to have us at 26-15. But I’m not counting on it, and I won’t panic if that’s not where we are.
I will happily take the under on RJ’s career still
I’m not betting on RJ, either. But I’d bet my house that the delta between IQ & OG’s trade value is very narrow. RJ and that pick (and Grimes and those picks, for that matter) should have been saved instead of squandered.
Do you think we’re getting Lopez or Capela for non-core pieces?
If we do, it’s because everyone thinks they’re washed.
My prediction: Jericho Sims will surprise a lot of people this year (no jinx).
I’d rather have Sims start all 82 games for the Knicks than have Boone manage another game for the Yankees.
I think “impact on winning” has to factor into this at some point. Maybe I’m nuts (well… I certainly am) but I see a huge difference between OG and IQ.
If you sincerely think the post trade Knicks were a strong title contender before Randle got hurt that doesn’t make any sense.
That’s 100% trolling. He likes to fuck with people on social media.
It’s childish, but, well, social media is childish, so I can’t begrudge it too much.