[ESPN] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 23:04:49 GMT
Knicks 91-90 Pistons (Jul 19, 2024) Box Score
[CBS Sports] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 14:33:00 GMT
Ranking NBA’s top defensive units for 2024-25 season: Celtics won title with defense, Knicks double down
[USA TODAY] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 10:09:17 GMT
- Reggie Miller on Bronny James, Knicks’ offseason, NBA media rights
- Reggie Miller Defends Bronny James amid Criticism of His Summer League Stats: ‘Pause on the Bronny Hate’
- Knicks Media Roundup: Remaining offseason questions, praise from Reggie Miller, and Hart quotable again
- Trey Songz Defends Bronny James Against The Haters After First NBA Summer League Games
- Knicks get high praise from Hall-of-Famer for offseason moves
[Posting and Toasting] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 01:14:22 GMT
- Knicks 91, Pistons 90: New York nearly blows 20-point lead, Kolek’s timely hoops secure the win
- Dmytro Skapintsev makes case for Knicks roster spot in 91-90 Summer League victory over Pistons
- Ron Holland, Marcus Sasser lead failed rally as Detroit Pistons fall to Knicks, 91-90
- NBA 2K25 Summer League: Knicks jam Pistons’ final push
- Summer League Highlights: Pistons vs. Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 11:00:03 GMT
- New York Knicks Trade Star Julius Randle in Latest Prediction
- Knicks Mailbag: What’s the team’s thinking on Julius Randle ahead of next season?
- Trade Proposal Sends New York Knicks Star to Warriors
- Grade the Trade: Mavericks land Knicks All-Star forward in blockbuster proposal
- Julius Randle is underappreciated in New York
[Sports Illustrated] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 11:00:00 GMT
Former Knicks Guard Slams Jalen Brunson
[Sports Illustrated] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 21:00:00 GMT
Analyst: Knicks Got Better After Losing Starting Center
[Sports Illustrated] – Fri, 19 Jul 2024 17:00:01 GMT
- New York Knicks Insider Details Plan for Pacome Dadiet
- Breaking down Pacome Dadiets up-and-down Summer League
- Knicks expected to stash first-round pick in G-League
- Is Pacome Dadiet’s Summer League Shooting Worrying? + Is Rokas Jokubaitis Going to Get a Shot In NY?
- Knicks first-round pick Pacome Dadiet adjusting to the NBA game in Summer League
75 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.07.20)”
This is our last Vegas game no matter what, right? Or is there some sort of consolation game for teams not good enough to make the playoffs?
Also, I wonder if Rokas gets a camp invite. There seems to be no room for him, though.
I think this is it.
I think every team gets one more game if they aren’t in the playoffs of summer league
But who you play is determined after the playoffs are set.
I want to get something out of Rokas. Either bring him to the roster or package him with Dadiet and the “1sts” for Kessler or whoever.
He looked really good the last 2 games
Rokas had some impressive momemts. I just don’t see any playing time for him the way we are set up. He’s not really any more of a PG than Deuce so he’d be way down on the depth chart at either the 1 or 2.
Now if they can set things up so that he can be brought over in case of injury, he does have some potential as a backup NBA combo guard. I’m wondering if he might also be valuable as a trade throw-in. But I don’t expect to see him in a Knicks uniform any time soon, unless he’s desperate to get to the NBA and is willing to risk injury in training camp/preseason.
Today’s game is our last game. The top-4 teams make the playoffs (Heat, Griz, Clips and Dubs are all 4-0). The semis are today (Dubs-Heat) and tomorrow (Griz-Clips), final game is on Monday. Everyone else plays a consolation game either today or tomorrow. Today is our consolation game vs. DET @ 6PM.
Yes, there a “consolation” game (to fulfill the “5-games minimum” rule).
We’ll play Atlanta today at 6 PM
Edit: Z-Man beat me to it 🙂
Will Kolek be able to do his magic tricks in the big league as well? Some of his impossible passes could easily become turnovers when facing a bigger, more athletic defenders. He has a very special skill, if it fully translates.
Thanks, Z-man.
I definitely think Rokas has better PG skills than Deuce, which is a pretty low bar and no guarantee that his game translates to the NBA.
Kolek seems to struggle a bit balancing his scoring and passing, he seems to alternate between bucket-mode and Rondo-mode.
I think the Rokas situation would be determined soon enough.
Euroleague regular season starts 3 weeks before the NBA, “national competitions” start a few days earlier, training camps for european teams usually start after mid-August.
Rosters are filling quickly*, lots of players were signed in the last few weeks, there are still EL clubs with open rosters spots (Zalgiris, for instance) but the more he waits the less chance he has to find a team to his liking.
* In EL you can’t sign more than 20 players in a single season, with an active roster of 16 max (and only 12 can play in a game).
darules, I really am convinced that Kolek is possessed of that court vision gene that you just can’t teach. He’s not particularly big or athletic, but his ball skills are solid and he has the right BBall-IQ and temperament to craft a game that will work in the NBA. I think it’s only a question of whether he tops out as a fringe rotation player on a good team or a fringe starter. I don’t see him ever becoming a Nash or Brunson or Price or Stockton (who I think is the best archetype, but only through very blurry rose-colored glasses), but who knows? I don’t see TJ McConnell in terms of playing style, but maybe that level of player is his ceiling?
Rokas plus the 2 fugazys for Kessler. Final offer!
“I definitely think Rokas has better PG skills than Deuce…”
That may be true, but his passing is really not great. He had a 2:1 ast/tov ratio in 4,000 minutes in Europe, and he’s at less than that in summer league. I would say that he is a more willing passer than Deuce but not necessarily more effective passer.
To his credit, assists are counted in a slightly different way in Europe (it used to be “way more different” but they relaxed the rules a bit years ago).
OTOH, his 3 turnovers in less than 150 seconds in the first SL game were a thing of beauty 😀
For what it matters, I always said that passing is his best skill and IMO he’s a better, and more willing, passer than Deuce (in this SL alone he made more entry passes to teammates posting up that Deuce made in all his pro career, G-League included 😉 )…
Still, with JB, Payne, Ty-Ko, DDV and Deuce it’s hard to figure a spot for him on our roster.
Saw Tyler the Kreator used on Twitter. He internet is not going to allow him to go without a nickname for much longer it appears.
DDV and Hart are fringe starters, that would be an incredible outcome for Tyko. If you’re right and his passing translates, it will depend on his defense.
While I understand darules’ doubts about his ability to do this against high level NBA defenses, I agree with Z-Man.
Before SL I’ve never saw him play in games in real time, only highlights, and his vision and processing are a pleasure to watch.
And we can add the clutch gene ( 😉 ), he loves to take responsabilities in tight games.
“For what it matters, I always said that passing is his best skill and IMO he’s a better, and more willing, passer than Deuce (in this SL alone he made more entry passes to teammates posting up that Deuce made in all his pro career, G-League included 😉 )…”
Fair enough, Max. You have watched him a lot so I defer to your judgment. But I also think Deuce is capable of passing more than he does…in his sophomore year in college, he averaged 5.7 asts per 40 vs. 2.1 tovs. I think that he is just very turnover-phobic, possibly due to Thibs having him on such a short leash.
Yeah, playing under Thibs for a PG/main ball handler must be really demanding… or maybe scaring! 🙂
I just had a vision of someone like Teodosic or Jason Williams playing for Thibs, alas it was only a dream
Deuce is great at holding onto the ball and excels in Ast/TO ratio but he never really creates advantages and that, more than anything else, is what makes you a PG. Consider that we brought in Altarboy Benegesserit to play PG over Deuce because of his struggles running the offense.
There’s a lot of hype around Tyler Kolek but I am going to throw cold water on it. His combined Box Plus/Minus was -23 (+9, -18, -14, 0) and that sheds some darkness over the light. It’s his defense which was very poor. While his NBA offensive game plays well, his defense was virtually non-existent. He got torched. While TV talking heads are pumping him up, I’m sure Thibs saw what really happened.
I think it’s much more likely that we see Hukporti and Skapintsev make the roster than Kolek. When does camp open?
With Deuce, Rokas, and Kolek on the team was signing Payne really necessary?
Yes, because Payne is someone who can be put on the floor in an NBA game tomorrow in the event of an injury and be trusted to know what he’s doing out there. The team is in a different place now. A year or two ago, I’d be agitating for Kolek to get a chance to make the rotation out of training camp. Now, I only want to see him play if he, like IQ getting himself promoted over Austin Rivers, forces the issue.
I don’t love the idea of relying on rookies during a title run. Sometimes it works out like Dereck Lively II, but it usually doesn’t. We don’t know if either of these guys is an NBA player yet.
If there’s any takeaway from last season it’s that you can’t have too much quality depth.
I think this undersells both players. Hart was a starter for championship hopeful (delusional?) Portland before coming here. Donte was solidly a starter last year.
The Knicks just have starter-level 2nd unit guys.
As much as Thibs gets criticized for only playing vets, the facts seem to belie that. In 20-21 when IQ and Obi were rookies, he played them 1200 and 600 minutes which was close to precisely what they earned.
I suspect he will play Satan, if the thinks that gives him a better chance to win. His judgement putting Reddish and Fournier in the dog box seems well vindicated.
GNYGNYG, I agree that Kolek’s D is his main stumbling block on the way to a future in the NBA. But he was a pretty good defensive player in college based on his steals and defensive rebounding numbers. He had a 3.2 DBPM as a senior and was positive every year, for what that’s worth. His college rebound, steal, and block numbers were considerably better than Brunson’s.
Here’s my hope (and it is a hope, not a prediction.) Kolek is the kind of player that needs to directly experience the size, speed, athleticism, and talent delta in jumping to the NBA, and then react to it in putting in tireless hours in the gym. He will likely take lots of lumps, but he will get there…it’s just a matter of time.
The one thing that bugs me about Kolek is that he doesn’t seem to have great straight-line speed…during summer league, I saw him in a couple of “footrace” situations getting sort of left in the dust. Not sure how you can make yourself faster, but if he can just marginally improve there, that would help greatly.
I know we have a lot of armchair GMs on this site who spend lots of happy hours playing the trade machine, but my sense has always been that a great team is a jigsaw puzzle, not plug-and-play — all the pieces have to fit together just right. This bit from the Ringer about Denver (contemplating Westbrook!) does a nice job of encapsulating that perspective. It’s one of the reasons I’m excited about this season, and why I really want to run it back with minimal tweaking. I really like how the pieces fit together.
“It’s jarring to consider how the NBA’s most complementary roster has devolved. The Nuggets won the 2023 title because the pieces fit together just so. But after losing Brown, Jeff Green, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, their beautiful basketball symphony will need to tweak its melody. “
Denver really needs Peyton Watson to step up or their window is effectively closed. Saric and Russ were nice additions. They’re nothing special but infinitely better than last year’s 2nd unit.
Denver not only had a much more cohesive team in 2022-23, they faced less competition in the West. They beat a not yet gelled/matured TWolves team; a Suns team where three of their six biggest playoff minutes getters were Payne, Shamet, and Jock; a team with LeBron, AD, and a bunch of scrubs; and the overachieving but not all that good Heat squad that almost choked to the Celts. So their “demise” is part due to them being overrated/untested in their peak year, and part due to being in a bad cap situation. I don’t think that same team would be as formidable this year, given how much their WC opponents have improved.
The signing of Payne, who can easily give you 1200-1500 minutes of non-disastrous basketball, will allow NYK to ease Kolek into a bench role. The Knicks are well stocked at guard and can throw a lot of different looks at you now. We’re a little thin up front but Brunson, Mikal, DDV, Payne, McBride, and Kolek is really nice guard depth.
We should also expect a move between December and the deadline (and possibly another pre-season) that sheds our depth and makes Payne, or whomever is left, a little more necessary.
You also have three forwards with some guard-like skills (Randle, OG, Hart).
Let’s assume that we keep all of Mitch, Julius, Brunson, Mikal, OG, DDV, and Hart. Let’s also assume that Payne and Bates-Diop are staying put. Honestly, that’s a pretty good rotation except for a top-quality reserve big. How can we acquire one?
The above assumptions leave us with the following trade assets*:
-Deuce
-Sims
-Precious’s sign-and-trade potential
-Kolek
-Dadiet
-Rights to Rokas
-Huk
-Rights to McCullar
-Wizards protected pick
-Detroit protected pick
-assorted second rounders
*not sure if newly signed Dadiet, Kolek, and Huk are eligible to be traded before December, but assuming they are.
It’s not a horrible position in terms of having assets to make a trade for a backup C at some point, and it suggests that something is going to happen either before the season starts or when mid-December comes around. I just can’t convince myself that they are going to go into the season with a Mitch-Precious-Sims-Hukporti depth chart at C.
Assuming that only Brunson, OG and Mikal are untouchable, in what order would folks put the following guys as a player to be included in a trade for a quality C:
Mitch
Julius
Hart
DDV
My preference would be Hart because OG and Mikal pretty much overlap with what he does. Mitch is too good at the position you are addressing to be swapped out, DDV is too valuable as a volume 3pt shooter, and Julius is an all-NBA player. But Hart and DDV are probably viewed as untouchable, so I just don’t see a way to wrangle it so that there’s a net benefit. Which is why I don’t see any of those four being traded this season.
Raven I like the jigsaw puzzle idea only to the extent that you’re contextualizing the actual work of putting the pieces together. But I think there’s an element missing in the sense that a jigsaw puzzle really works because you have defined lines or borders that ultimately determine the method towards which you build. That is unless you have a puzzle piece that looks like Lebron James. Then you fit anything that will stick to it and you stand a reasonable chance of winning.
As in writing story, very jigsawish mechanically, its fundamentally important to define the lines and place them in space and time. Know your ending. A good GM (and his capologist) have to identify lines (the window as we have it) better than their opposition so that they have the flexibility to work with puzzle pieces that are warping in time, sometime become sharper and sometimes becoming Eddy Curry. They have to do this as the rules for how many pieces and how they can interact are shifting in real time as well.
I guess I think the coach is the 2 dimension puzzle guy and the gm is actually just a wizard.
Clarence, thank you for vastly improving my clumsy and simplistic metaphor. I agree wholeheartedly.
Still want to run it back, though.
Would also like to point out that just a week or so ago we were in agony over our lack of point guard depth, and now we find ourselves awash in options (a perfectly cromulent back-up who can run point if the unimaginable happens, along with two youthful options with multiple question marks and a guy who is one entry pass skill away from being quite decent at the position).
For some reason I’m not too worried about the back-up center hole.
(And re my metaphor, my only real point was that trading a piece may look good on paper, but the results can be quite disastrous. Doesn’t mean you don’t make trades, but be careful what you wish for.)
While I think the point in this article is at least somewhat overstated and inaccurate, it does remind us that Brunson is not the first Knicks all-NBA player to sign for less money than he might have gotten if he waited.
Now of course, Randle went on to have a very disappointing season so it might have been smart on his part to lock in the money. I am merely pointing out the difference in the fanfare in very similar situations at the time of the signing.
This is a far greater criminal offense than Embiid’s felonious assault on Mitch in Round 1:
https://x.com/MikeVorkunov/status/1814716238469243057
I agree with you. I’m not too worried about the backup center role. I would be really worried if we discover mid season that this team can’t compete and chow down on much of the nba as constituted. Sushi with gold foil is so dumb unless it’s not.
didn’t like us having to match up with him in the playoffs – but joel embiid is a serious goof ball…what a character he is…
whoa team usa basketball may be worth tuning in to watch…i’m sure they’ll come back?
but, team usa down to south sudan by 14 at the half…think i’ll tune in for a bit…
Z-man, if defense can be taught to Kolek, it’ll be by the Knicks. So far against ATL I’ve seen a lot of bad D by him.
I’d hate play with Duane Washington 😁
I am not trading for a backup center yet. Talk to me in December when some become available.
Rokas has always been good going left… Nice move
Just looking at the play-by-play. I’m going to assume R. Baker is Ron Ron and refuse to listen to any other opinion on the matter.
+/- At the half:
Jokubaitis +14, Kolek -3
Skapintsev +11, Hukporti -7
Rock me, Jokubaitis
Of course I defend Rokas and he goes and turns the ball over 5 times. Still looks pretty good.
Dadiet has some real Knox potential. Phenomenal cutter at least.
All the rookies do seem to be playing better over the course of SL, save Dadiet who still can’t buy a shot from outside Mitch range.
How nuts do you have to be to watch 3rd string summer league play?
Seems like they’re emptying the bench for the 4th
who are these guys?
yeah…i faded after the 1st qtr on this one…went to prep some green beans for dinner…got motivated after watching episode 1 of the new Bear season…
Challenges should be banned in SL 😂
The funny thing is that shooting was supposed to be the thing that Dadiet was best at, whereas he’s showed chops in other areas that the scouting reports were very negative about.
It would be criminal if Rokas isn’t on the team or used in a trade.
We should have a poll to start the next thread tomorrow. Rokas or Kolek.
(You have to choose only one.)
Utah just waived Westbrook and bought out his contract. Apparently he’s going to now sign with Denver.
Maybe we should be scouting the South Sudan squad instead of summer league….
Something you may not know about South Sudan:
https://www.africanparks.org/worlds-largest-land-mammal-migration-confirmed-south-sudan
Why? Even if Precious is signed, there should be room for both. Kolek showed elite court vision an the ability to shoot with awful defense. Rokas showed poise with a nice pull up game and shooting from distance.
Re: Rokas or Kolek, I don’t think a poll means much at this stage. Kolek is already signed to an NBA contract, so he’s not going anywhere. So it’s really about whether a) we should bring Rokas over, and/or b) if yes, should one of them be traded?
In other words, I don’t think there’s any way that Kolek is on the roster on his deal AND they bring Rokas over. If they bring Rokas over, that kind of suggests that they would use one of them as a trade chip sooner than later.
45 million a year for Evan Mobley is putting a lot of faith in player development
was looking forward to watching the Team USA vs WNBA all-stars game tonight…
real good game so far…
One possibility is if Rokas’ euro deal has some kind of a provision so that he can participate in training camp/preseason. Then they can decide whether to sign him to a regular contract before the season starts. Another is that they bring him over at some point during the season subsequent some developments…injury, trade, etc. But my best guess is that he’ll never play a minute for the Knicks.
…because it wasn’t about a choice for the Knicks to make, it was who do you like better, who’d you rather have on your team if you could only have one, who has the better upside, who… oh never mind (begins mixing a very large martini while crying quietly…).
I’m a Kolek guy so that would be my vote, but I can see the other side as well. I think at some point Rokas will play meaningful minutes in the NBA…just not with us next year, if ever.
Kolek is a true PG where I feel Rokas is more a SG similar to Deuce but without the defensive chops.
Kolek had 35 asts to 7 tos compared to Rokas 21 to 15. Some of Rokas’ to’s were really ugly too. Rokas can definitely score though, he has a midrange game which Kolek is going to have to develop himself. Rokas was pretty impressive and seemed to improve as SL went on, he definitely looks like an NBA caliber player who deserves to be a 10th-12th man on an NBA roster.
But to me it’s a no-brainer you have to go with Kolek if you’re the Knicks.
They already signed him to a 4 yr contract, so he has a roster spot unless he is included in a trade. Rokas has NBA level skills and it is up to the Knicks to develop them.
I’d rather him have a roster spot than Washington or Toppin. 10-15 are only for injury/emergency situations. I’d much rather work with Rokas than Washington. Hukporti already has one of the 3 two way spots.
But I doubt that Rokas wants to come over and not play in the NBA. He’s not going to settle for mostly g-league minutes with a bit of NBA garbage time mixed in. And that’s clearly all the Knicks have to offer for the time being.
Kolek has no choice. He signed a contract and pretty much has accept that role.
He was 9th in MPG for Barcelona last season at 15.5. He’ll surely get less here, but I don’t know his mind. I certainly like him as an end of the bench developmental player (he’s 3 months older than Kolek) then the dreck we had last year. This is how you develop the Sam Hausers of the world.