[dailyknicks.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 5:00:00 PM
How Victor Wembanyama can give the Knicks a new star trade target Daily Knicks
[nypost.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 4:29:00 PM
Rick Carlisle sees something ‘very, very special’ in Knicks’ Jalen Brunson New York Post
[www.si.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 1:31:12 PM
Knicks Crush Preseason Pacers: 3 Realistic, Reasonable Takeaways Sports IllustratedKnicks 131, Pacers 114: “Damn what a dunk” Posting and Toasting1 stud and 1 dud from Knicks’ dominant preseason win over Pacers Daily KnicksObi Toppin shines, Cam Reddish struggles in Knicks’ preseason win over Pacers Yahoo NewsJalen Brunson, Obi Toppin shine in Knicks’ preseason win over Pacers New York Post View Full Coverage on Google News
[bleacherreport.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 1:14:52 PM
Knicks Rumors: Front-Office Structure Seen as ‘Confusing’ by Those Around NBA Bleacher Report
[www.cbssports.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 1:09:34 PM
Knicks’ Svi Mykhailiuk: Notches eight in return to floor CBS Sports
[www.nydailynews.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 11:57:13 AM
Cam Reddish finding it difficult adjusting to his new group: ‘It’s hard as s–t’ New York Daily News
[www.si.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 10:50:05 AM
Knicks Coach Tom Thibodeau Lauds ‘Versatile’ Immanuel Quickley Sports IllustratedNew York Knicks look dominant in first preseason game Sir Charles in ChargeKnicks Notes: Brunson, Randle, Robinson, Reddish hoopsrumors.comWhat the Knicks’ preseason opener said about their potential New York Post Knicks 117, Pistons 96: Scenes from a fun preseason night at the Garden. Posting and ToastingView Full Coverage on Google News
[heatnation.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 10:45:28 AM
NBA executive links Josh Richardson to Miami Heat, New York Knicks and Memphis Grizzlies Heat Nation
[www.essentiallysports.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 10:00:00 AM
“..Was a Barely Top 15 Prospect..”: Fans React After New York Yankees Utility Player Gets Recognized on the Knicks Big Screen During Time Off EssentiallySports
[dailyknicks.com] — Saturday, October 8, 2022 10:00:00 AM
RJ Barrett isn’t plagued by disrespect that stems from playing for Knicks Daily Knicks
118 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.10.09)”
Knicks second in fast break points through two preseason games. A trend I am sure will last all season.
It does feel like Obi is the guy people are going to talk about most this year.
He’s definitely the most fun to watch of our kids — really, the only other guys on the roster who can challenge him for entertainment value are Brunson and Mitch, and neither of them can do what Obi did on Friday night. The three Obi questions, as always:
1)Will Thibs play him enough? He has in these preseason games, but he also hasn’t been running a real rotation so far.
2)Can Obi consistently do things besides dunking on fast breaks and when defenders take a nap? The last 10 games of last season suggested he had a lot more in his bag, but it’s a small sample size against teams that weren’t necessarily trying. And the three pointers thus far have either gone wildly awry or swished perfectly.
3)Will opposing coaches start scheming to prevent those breakaway dunks? Can they?
That’s exactly right.
I have a premonition that a moment will come when we are 5 games under 500 with Obi having played 12 minutes per game but still leading the team in dunks when the Garden just openly starts chanting for him.
OBI averaged 17 minutes last year and spent the summer working out with Thibs but let’s go ahead and keep pushing this anti Thibs he’s going to never play OBI BS.
Here’s what’s actually going to happen. OBI will play more minutes than he did last year. Randle will play well, the team will win games and there will still be a faction of fans that can’t be appeased no matter what.
So I guess Cam just rots on the bench this year barring injuries. Guess he should’ve been happy with his Atlanta minutes…
I just don’t see a trade that makes sense for him. Even as a salary dump, we’d have to take a player back that wouldn’t make the rotation. And no one is giving us a first for him. Only hope is if we trade Randle and include him for salary/sweetener purposes.
IQ is also very fun to watch, my girls are casual fans and they would’ve hated seeing either of those two traded for Donovan Mitchell.
“OBI averaged 17 minutes last year”
Is this supposed to be evidence Thibs likes Obi and will play him a lot this year?
***the team will win games and there will still be a faction of fans that can’t be appeased no matter what.***
Step 1: win games
Step 2: see if the fans are appeased.
(Or, you know, just keep speaking hypothetically because step 1 is too hard)
I love Obi (who doesn’t?) but I’m very curious to see how he and Thibs respond when things don’t go well. Even if Obi has a breakout season, there will be games when his shot isn’t dropping or someone locks him down. That will be a real character test. As an example, his big dunk was inches from being messed up by a defender right behind him. If he had bricked such a showboat move — instead of taking the sure layup — that’s an event Thibs would surely frown on. I love Obi’s cockiness — he prolly needs that swagger to function — but I want him to play himself into the rotation with some undeniable reliability.
No but it is evidence that he’s not going to play 12, which is what I was responding to.
He averaged less his rookie year, more last year bc he was better. He’ll probably play 20 plus minutes a night this yr bc he will be even better. Thibs plays young players but he brings them along slowly.
I’m just tired of this anti thibs BS. Can we at least let the first 20 games play out before we get all possession about what thibs isn’t doing? Like we’ve won our first two preseason games handily, Randle is playing the way we want him to play, Brunson and RJ look good, iQ and OBI too but people still want to bitchZ
Swift, people are talking about the team in a broader context than two preseason wins against tanking teams. That’s allowed. You don’t have veto power over such discussions.
That the roster is not suited well to allow Obi to get the amount of playing time he’s earned on the merits is a widely discussed topic among all NBA commentators. That the coach has rigid tendencies that exacerbate this problem is as well.
Again, if you want relentless, unrealistic positivity r/nyknicks is right over there.
Apparently the key to unlocking Daniel Jones’s talent is to just play practice squad guys at every skill position
There are a few structural issues with the roster that Thibs is going to need to figure out:
1. The Obi/Randle problem. A promising young player like Obi should be getting 25+ minutes. There are three ways to get Randle more minutes— play Randle less, play small ball lineups with Randle at the 5, or play big lineups with Obi at the 3. There are options available to get the kid the minutes he needs, so let’s hope Thibs doesn’t disappoint us here.
2. Brunson/Fournier does not project to be a good defensive backcourt. This one is not so easy to solve. We don’t have a lot of good two-way guards on the roster. Perhaps Quickley or Grimes paired with Brunson might work better, but I’m having a hard time seeing this as an elite defensive team if the default backcourt is Brunson/Fournier.
Bitching about things that end up not happening is a big part of what we do here.
The bigger problem was Thibs playing Obi as little as possible while Randle was stinking up the joint. That cannot continue and I think the FO privately told Thibs about that for this upcoming season.
If Thibs considers IQ a SG then why not start him next to Brunson if Grimes is out. We arent losing anything defensively and Fournier could thrive in a bench flamethrower role.
Brunson-IQ-Barrett-Obi-Mitch is the lineup of my dreams
Mine (for this season, at least) is Rose-Brunson-Barrett-Fournier-Robinson.
I know we have to replace Rose and Fournier with IQ and Obi eventually but Rose is still much better than IQ and Obi still can’t shoot.
Anyone fascinated by the regular playing of a three-point-guard lineup, with Rose, IQ, and Deuce on the second unit? You can argue that none of them are classic point guards for one reason or another, but that lineup got lengthy time on the court with pretty good results. It’s not a tall lineup, but it’s really interesting (and really functional).
The current iteration of the NY football Giants is the perfect example of how Swifty’s assumptions are wrong.
That team needs a top 5 draft pick more than they need to win 8 games this year. But they cut all their veterans, brought in a new regime, and are doing this almost entirely with draft picks and undrafted free agents, players who should be able to contribute for a long time at reasonable cost.
And everyone supports them winning. No one is complaining about the lost draft position.
It would have been unacceptable to bring in a veteran QB and some big money free agents to boost the expected win total from 4 to 6. But if the kids are gonna play like hell then of course you support it 100%.
Thibs has so many lineup options from 3 guard to twin towers. If he can’t be successful with this group, it is totally on him.
The way Mitch is playing should cover up for some of the Fournier/Brunson defensive deficiencies.
I keep forgetting about Grimes… let’s swap Fournier for him when he gets healthy.
I’m really not in the “Obi has to play more” camp. He can’t shoot well enough to play on the perimeter and he can’t protect the paint well enough to play as the lone big.
I’ve deserves the opportunity to beat out Randle, though. May the best PF play. But I don’t need to see them together at the expense of Mitch or iHart.
And I don’t see how playing him at the 3 would work. What’s the best lineup we could put together… Brunson-Barrett-Toppin-Randle-Mitch? That feels Fizdale to me.
When you’re playing small ball lineups the idea is that you sacrifice rim protection on exchange for being able to outrun and out-shoot the opposition. This is a pretty proven formula at this point. This particular team seems well suited to run some small ball lineups out there.
Jets are smacking the Dolphins around pretty good!
[quote]2. Brunson/Fournier does not project to be a good defensive backcourt. This one is not so easy to solve. We don’t have a lot of good two-way guards on the roster. Perhaps Quickley or Grimes paired with Brunson might work better, but I’m having a hard time seeing this as an elite defensive team if the default backcourt is Brunson/Fournier.[/quote]
Testing to see if I got the quote thing right
CDiggy, you need to use the greater than or less than symbols > < instead of the [ brackets ] for the html coding to work.
If you’re going to play small ball your rotations have to be on point and unfortunately both Randle and Obi tend to miss rotations too often to have it be anything other than a disaster on defense. You’d probably need to keep Obi from leaking out to help on the glass as well.
If Obi shows he can actually shoot from three then why not give him a few minutes at the three? He doesn’t handle the ball well for a three but when your four (Randle) loves to bring the ball and initiate the offense having a non-handling three is less of an issue. Get Randle and RJ down to 32 a night and give those 5-6 minutes to Obi split between the three and four. Obviously, if Randle sucks again Obi should be taking his minutes but I just can’t see Thibs, who lives for rim-protection going with an Obi/Randle tandem at the 4/5. But a few minutes at the three? That I could see.
At the risk of being pedantic, I think the formula that works is when you sacrifice a degree of rim protection by playing with one big rather than two. But the whole thing still requires one elite defensive big backstopping the whole thing, like Bam or Draymond or Horford or LeBron.
A lineup with Obi and Randle as the bigs forsakes rim protection altogether. It’s unlikely to protect the perimeter very well, either. I can’t think of any small ball lineups that have had a lot of success like that.
But the objection to him at small forward is that he cannot shoot the 3. If he shows that he can, the possibilities are endless.
I think Obi’s really exciting but unless he outplays Randle, I’m probably gonna back Thibs on this. He can’t shoehorn Obi into the lineup if the domino effect is negative.
Randle deserved the benefit of the doubt after making all-nba.. i don’t fault thibs for last season with randle… but he doesn’t really have that luxury this season so all bets.. should.. be off… if randle is still jacking up bad shots and obi plays well/better then he should take more minutes… whether that actually happens is anyone’s guess…
I dunno, Mike D’Antoni played Boris Diaw at center for long stretches of time and didn’t even bother with rim protection at all, and that team seemed to do ok.
The Knicks have the personnel to play small ball successfully against certain teams. We will likely not see a whole lot of it, but they could do it.
That’s a good point. It’s all about the tradeoff, and for D’Antoni the lineups he could play with Diaw and Amar’e at center were historically unstoppable on offense.
I don’t think we have firepower to withstand an Obi-Randle frontcourt for prolonged periods. I want to see us go small but I think the best way is going to involve Brunson, Mitch, and any three wings (RJ, Grimes, IQ, Rose, Fournier)
RJ at the 4 with one of the true bigs at 5 is intriguing but that would mean even fewer minutes for Obi. I do think that at some point in his career RJ will play a decent amount of small-ball 4 but probably not with this current roster.
Thanks, Alan!
I really think Grimes starts when he recovers, so that will help in a few ways not just defensively.
OT: All signs pointed to NYG needing to tank this year considering the QBs that will be at the top of the ’23 draft (including a certain Heisman winner that I’ve been stanning for). But when they beat GB today to go 4-1 with the team they have, then it’s like Hubert says – how can you complain about that?
I think I would like to see Brunson Grimes IQ RJ Mitch be given a shot at some point.
Now, if you want to experiment with an Obi/Randle lineup… hmmm… I’d think it would have to be an offense-heavy group against a defensive-oriented lineup that can’t break us down one-on-one. Maybe forego RJ and go dual PGs with IQ/Brunson and have Grimes be the wing. I also think such a lineup is where the theory of Reddish would work, but alas…
If Grimey (can’t believe that nickname hasn’t caught on) lives up to the billing and turns out to be a plus defender who can guard 1-3, that would be really huge for us.
Grimey is being advertised right now as a lights out three point shooter with playmaking ability who is also a plus defender, which would make him a pretty awesome player. I haven’t seen enough of the kid to really judge all of that, but if he can live up to that billing that would be really huge.
Just wish the negative nancies would for once admit how many times they’re also wrong about shit. The same peeps who bitch about IQ not getting enough PT are the same ones who screamed bloody murder about him being an awful pick the night he was drafted.
We’re going to lose Mitch for nothing!
Except we didn’t.
No way we’ll get Brunson! We did.
RJ’s going to get a super max. Except he didn’t. How quickly the goal posts changed on that one!!!!
i am not ashamed to say, but one of many daily affirmations which help me through each day:
i am never wrong, i am never wrong, i am never wrong, i am never wrong, i am never wrong, i am never wrong, i am never wrong, i am never wrong…
about 30 to 40 of those throughout the day, well, i feel especially prepared to face all those people outside my home…
public service announcement – do not view the avatars while on drugs…
We good people
stay positive
Try optimism!
The only reason i see for small ball in msg is to upgrade Obi’s minutes.
Not negative to try it but i don’t expect it to be very effective.
With Daboll & Katz, I don’t think you need a top tier QB. They clearly don’t even need NFL-level receivers.
Picking higher in the NFL is less important than picking high in the NBA. There’s plenty of football talent in the later rounds and teams aren’t reliant on a single superstar. In the NBA talent is skewed to the top more and you can only field 5 players at a time. In the NFL you’re using 22+ players.
“JK47 says:
October 9, 2022 at 14:40
I dunno, Mike D’Antoni played Boris Diaw at center for long stretches of time and didn’t even bother with rim protection at all, and that team seemed to do ok.
The Knicks have the personnel to play small ball successfully against certain teams. We will likely not see a whole lot of it, but they could do it.”
The most compelling reason to go small is to take advantage of bigs who can’t guard effectively enough on the perimeter to defend switches. It’s guys like Steph and Nash that make small ball work because they destroy opposing bigs, and if the opponents go smaller, their smalls aren’t as good.
I don’t think you go small unless you have a huge advantage at a couple of positions on the perimeter. The Knicks just don’t have that kind of personnel.
What they DO have are two elite rim-protectors who can move their feet well enough to guard switches on the perimeter and who also have enough offensive advantages to make smaller players pay down by the basket.
I don’t think any small lineup we throw out there is going to scare most teams, regardless of whether they play big or small. I’d love to see Thibs tinker with it, but understand why he probably won’t.
I don’t think the Randle/Obi pairing can be played regularly for long stretches, but there’s a lot of room between that and never letting it see the light of day.
It’s hard for me to believe you can never steal 5 good minutes with it here and there before the other team adjusts.
I think it’s Thibs’ rigid “we’re literally never, ever gonna do it” approach that strikes many as suboptimal.
We have three good rim protectors on the roster and Tom Thibodeau is our coach so I realize this small ball discussion is academic. Maybe I’ll try it out in 2K and see how it works.
I didn’t like the Quickley pick on draft night, but I was wrong about that. I’ve said so before and have no problem saying so. It’s really not hard! Quick was a great pick.
Now, let’s hear some people admit that Phil Jackson was a terrible GM, or that Frank Ntilikina is a bad player! I’m waaaaaiiiting!
The two things that impressed me most in these 2 pre season games, among many other positives, are Brunson’s effect and Mitch’s growth.
Just like the music you don’t focus on but you feel it’s good, Brunson elevates the whole unit and Mitch finally plays confidently and moves as an experienced Center positioning as best as I’ve ever seen him.
#or that Frank Ntilikina is a bad player! #
A bad player?
Can you call an anaesthesiologist “a bad doctor” ?
Frank is a specialist man!
You can’t do surgery wo him !!!
;-p
{quote} A bad player? {/quote}
Testing the quote shit
Nope
I’ve tried the I’ve tried the {} ive tried the \ instead of the /…
Nope
After hrs of fighting against league pass, android, tv, bank cards and google account i give up quoting…
Fuck You >>>>Quote<<<
<blockquote
*quote*
</blockquote
Guys, it is the greater than and less than symbols for your html coding needs: > and < only backwards from this.
Then close both sides with >
Last try
Jeeeeesus!!!
Frank was the secret quote ingredient!!!
Thanks guys!
(I was using quote instead of blockquote so probably that was the issue)
Playing smallball, run and gun, Twin towers or zone Ds and other strategies is about trying to get an advantage over your opponent.
The way i see our team right now the only advantage we have is youth and D.
Not shooting, not talent or anything else basketwise.
The game is always changing and last years has become all about 3s and D.
D needs fresh legs.
We got that.
That’s our advantage.
Let’s play D-ball
I think the apocalypse is coming. How can it not be if the Giants are 4-1 and the Jets 3-2? All bets are totally off. We can’t trust any predictions. Thibs has a beard and may not even be Thibs coaching wise.
Well, I stirred the pot.
I am excited to win 55 games also Swift.
But if we don’t, Obi is looking like the most fun Knick we have had in my lifetime.
Breece Hall and Sauce Gardner look pretty damn good!
“I think it’s Thibs’ rigid “we’re literally never, ever gonna do it” approach that strikes many as suboptimal.”
I totally agree, but I’m not sure he won’t try it at all. Just not expecting a staple of it.
Chris Bassitt can’t get these scrubs out either
It’s been obvious to me all inning Bassit has nothing. I honestly would’ve yanked him and went to a bullpen game well before the Nola at bat, but he should have a very short leash in the 3rd.
Bassitt is excruciating to watch. All the shakeoffs. All the nibbling.
So far he looks a lot like he did in Atlanta.
should have started Koosman
That was no bueno.
Nine pitches seen that inning. Not exactly grinding out the ABs here. Hitting like they did against Darvish
“Just wish the negative nancies would for once admit how many times they’re also wrong about shit.”
No one has ever had any problem doing this. I’ve done a mea culpa every time it’s been warranted and so has everyone else.
Sadly, the “negative nancies” are dominating this particular scoreboard right now. Here’s to hoping that changes, I’d be delighted! I swear I don’t think about and watch this team all the damn time while hoping they continue to suck. It just so happens to have turned out that way for my whole life.
Bassitt really shouldn’t have still been in this game, even the outs have been loud as hell. I like Buck, but I don’t think he’s your guy in 2022.
Trent Grisham is literally one of the worst hitters in MLB and he is hitting like Barry Bonds’ older more talented brother with better steroids.
Dude hit .184 this year and nobody can get him out
I didn’t love Buck’s managing yesterday but there’s not a lot you can do when your top three starters just stink. This team froze in the bright lights repeatedly.
This one is not so easy to solve. We don’t have a lot of good two-way guards on the roster.
There’s one (IQ) and you could just start him instead of Fournier and that would kick that problem to the bench unit at least.
“Sadly, the “negative nancies” are dominating this particular scoreboard right now.”
As swifty pointed out, the negative nancies have painted one doomsday scenario after another that never transpired. He gave a few examples above, there are many others…one of my faves was that Mark Jackson was definitely going to be our next coach.
That’s fine, being all gloom and doom has been a pretty safe position overall for Knicks fans. And hey, if you’re wrong, the Knicks do well, you win either way! As Alexander Pope once wrote, Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.
Yeah, but this is bullshit. These are things that people said COULD happen, nobody was guaranteeing any of that shit Joe Namath style. “It would be bad if X happens” is what people tend to say. So that’s a weird victory lap to try to take.
Bottom line, this team has had 17 of 21 losing seasons and one playoff series win in two decades. Burden of proof is on the Panglossians at this point. I think this particular team should be kinda fun, I’ll be watching interestedly this year, but the criticisms of this franchise are valid. The criticisms of the hybrid method are valid. The criticisms of Thibs are valid.
Go to r/Knicks or stop crying about it.
the Giants might be the worst 4-1 team in the history of any professional sports league
Desperate ploy by the Mets, or is Musgrove cheating?
Is one base runner through six innings good?
“These are things that people said COULD happen, nobody was guaranteeing any of that shit Joe Namath style.”
Easy JK, don’t let the Mets debacle get to you! I thought it was kind of obvious that I was talking figuratively. Did you actually not read the billions of posts (I’m exaggerating in case that wasn’t obvious) alluding to Mitch being lost for nothing? Or RJ being maxed? Or that the Spida trade for a billion assets was happening because Dolan?
“As swifty pointed out, the negative nancies have painted one doomsday scenario after another that never transpired.”
Did a single person ever say “Mitch is definitely gone” or “there’s no chance we get Brunson?” I actually don’t remember that at all.
Of course people discussed how bad it would be if we let Mitch walk for nothing, which is an incredibly common and obviously true thing to say in the context of any decent upcoming UFA.
Quickley is definitely an example of the “negative nancies” missing, and I think the game thread of his first *preseason* game was full of mea culpas. Seriously, none of us have any problem taking those Ls. We hope there are many more to come!
Unfortunately Leon Rose still does not seem particularly close to winning one (1) playoff series, which seems like a reasonable thing to require before we ban criticism of Dear Leader.
I’m responding more to Swift here. I’m happy to hear Swift’s optimistic takes but if you criticize anything about this team at all he gets hostile about it. And frankly his “you guys never admit you’re wrong” take is horseshit. Take that up with the guy who insists Phil Jackson was a B+ general manager.
Don’t you think it’s about time to give the “aka Realists” to the Optimists?
Last few years the only thing that pessimists got right was that Theo Pinson’s loss will hurt the bench!
Yes, last year’s 37 win bonanza definitely gives the optimists bragging rights
“Unfortunately Leon Rose still does not seem particularly close to winning one (1) playoff series”
He said after the second pre-season game.
I mean, you’re right, of course. Unless this team turns out to be pretty good and, I don’t know, we win one (1) playoff series.
Exaggerating, mocking and even forcing the contrarian to eat his crow is part of the sports talk fun and not to be taken seriously.
If you insist on predicting The Knicks to Purgatory forever don’t be offended if freshly baked crow is coming to your table.. after two unearthly preseason extravaganzas!!!
;-pppp
Despite being an eternal optimist last season’s kemba/Fournier acquisitions weren’t exactly my choices
I wanted a more badass-d oriented pg (even Schroeder!) but i was pleasantly surprised with the bing bong start…that didn’t last tho…
“I mean, you’re right, of course. Unless this team turns out to be pretty good and, I don’t know, we win one (1) playoff series.”
Yes, if in the future the Knicks’ situation becomes better I will adjust my opinion on it accordingly!
I don’t see why I’m obligated to pretend it’s better than it is right now, though.
“Of course people discussed how bad it would be if we let Mitch walk for nothing, which is an incredibly common and obviously true thing to say in the context of any decent upcoming UFA.”
You call it discussed, I call it relentlessly harped on. Opinions vary!
“Quickley is definitely an example of the “negative nancies” missing, and I think the game thread of his first *preseason* game was full of mea culpas. Seriously, none of us have any problem taking those Ls. We hope there are many more to come!”
Exactly! You win either way! Safe, isn’t it?
“Unfortunately Leon Rose still does not seem particularly close to winning one (1) playoff series, which seems like a reasonable thing to require before we ban criticism of Dear Leader.”
I don’t think that’s what’s happening here. Swifty is certainly over the top with the optimism. But somewhere in that rant is a valid point. You’re smart guys, I’m sure you could find it if you looked.
“I don’t see why I’m obligated to pretend it’s better than it is right now, though.”
I don’t think anything can be taken away from these past two preseason games other than we probably won’t suck as bad as the Pacers or Pistons. Just hoping folks can take a “wait and see” approach, which is what JK sort of says when he writes: “I think this particular team should be kinda fun, I’ll be watching interestedly this year” That’s improvement!
I won’t lie
Predicting that KKnox will be the new Scottie Pippen was way beyond the barriers of human fantasy but i needed something miraculous to believe in back then!
Obi becoming the next Shawn Kemp seemed almost impossible too, early last year but wouldn’t exclude it completely after he started growing his balls and grabbing his knicks chance to become a player!
For some reason the phrase “out with a whimper” comes to mind….
“You call it discussed, I call it relentlessly harped on. Opinions vary!”
The point made was that this was a common, specific prediction. I am saying that’s plainly not true. People didn’t predict this would occur, in fact I’m pretty sure we all acknowledged we were completely in the dark as to what would happen.
To the extent it was “harped on,” it was because some people were insisting that if we let Mitch walk for absolutely nothing, it wouldn’t represent poor management. That was obviously wrong.
“Exactly! You win either way! Safe, isn’t it?”
No idea what the hell this is supposed to mean. No one is making predictions on account of some kind of emotional hedging. We mean everything we say, there’s nothing strategic about it. If there were we’d simply criticize every single move (I have been saying for literally over a calendar year that signing Jalen Brunson as a free agent would be a coup).
This might make sense for somebody who is obsessed with “winning” every observation or prediction but that’s really not my bag. At the end of the day I’m a guy on the internet, who gives a shit if I happen to be right or wrong about something.
I’d rather be constantly wrong and see the team kick ass all the time. Alas.
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
The last four lines of T.S. Eliot’s “The Hollow Men.” Not a poem about the Mets 2022 season, but might as well be.
Dude was a serious Negative Nancy…
🙂
Seriously guys, the years when knicks fans were hopeless, the team was fucked and the future was doomed have passed by.
Now Pessimists sound like “negatives without a cause”
There’s Pollyanna and Nancy but i guess there’s something in between also
A Rosie (a LRose believer!)
I do love to take a good L
Keeps me young
“To the extent it was “harped on,” it was because some people were insisting that if we let Mitch walk for absolutely nothing, it wouldn’t represent poor management. That was obviously wrong.”
Um, no. It was brought up many times without anyone saying anything to provoke it. And nobody argued that it would be some kind of a shrewd move to lose him for nothing, only that it happens…see: Jalen Brunson…and it would not have been as disastrous as it was often protrayed…see: Isaiah Hartenstein, Jericho Sims, and $15M AAV of cap space.
“At the end of the day I’m a guy on the internet, who gives a shit if I happen to be right or wrong about something.”
At the end of the day we are all fleshy ants living on a wet, moldy rock, who gives a shit about anything we say or do?
The Knicks wouldn’t have gained any cap space by letting Mitch walk. His cap hold was $1.8M and we kept it on the books until we were done with everything else (i.e. Brunson and Hartenstein).
It would’ve been really bad, and I don’t get how Jalen Brunson serves as a counterexample. Yes, it was really bad management on the part of the Mavs that they let that happen! If this was mavsblogger dot net I’d be furious about that.
I am prepared to be wrong about Obi and Tyrese.
I don’t want to be right. I want the Knicks to win a championship.
It’s not like you had to be a genius to see the Knicks were poorly run the last twenty years.
Also, the Musgrove thing was bush league. Hope it’s not bad karma for next year.
One of the Knicks’ main issues is spacing. If Obi can hit the 3 and other outside shots at a consistent enough rate, he s going to get more minutes and eventually become the starting PF. It doesn’t matter if it’s this year at the trade deadline or next year or whenever. It’s on him to prove he can shoot and defend consistently, become a legit starting PF, and not just leak out on fast breaks. Those dunks are fun but they aren’t going to be there every night and they aren’t going to win the starting job from Randle alone.
“The Knicks wouldn’t have gained any cap space by letting Mitch walk. His cap hold was $1.8M and we kept it on the books until we were done with everything else (i.e. Brunson and Hartenstein).”
He is now on the books at his contract numbers. Most feel that his contract is a slight overpay, or market value at best. He’s the Evan Fournier of starting C’s. I love me some Mitch but pure rim-running, shot-blocking Cs are the most repaceable roster pieces in the NBA. Hartenstein would have been a fine replacement at half the price. It would not have been nearly as bad as you have continually suggested. In fact, it would have been the most minor of setbacks. And this is hardly a rogue opinion.
And guess what? It didn’t happen! They turned out to be smart for waiting, because they weren’t prematurely signing a big man coming off a foot injury, they were signing a known commodity, and the market for Mitch turned out to be, shall we say, lukewarm at best?
Thinking about the Obi situation and comparing him with Kemp gotta say that the most concerning thing about him ain’t the 3 but the rebounds.
After all he’s a PF which traditionally goes along with plenty if not double digits rebs avg.
Efficient Obi’s 3 will be a luxury to have but if he wants to get Randle’s place he better study Sir Charles and the Worm and be Ready to give away a few fast breaks and start learning post moves to dunk on set Ds too.
Where’s Amare when you need him to teach him a few explosive post drives?
Wait a minute, you can find players like Mitch on the scrap heap for nothing, yet… it was smart that they re-signed Mitch? Which is it, are they smart or dumb?
“April is the cruelest month, breeding lilacs out of the dead land” does sound like something a despondent Mets fan might write about opening day.
The Mets had a bunch of players who are not real likely to repeat their great seasons. Lindor racked up 7 WAR, and Nimmo and McNeil both had 5 WAR.
This was an “everything went right” season that collapsed into ashes the moment NYM had to play important games. Not very encouraging for the future, although I guess Uncle Steve will just buy whatever pieces we need.
“Take that up with the guy who insists Phil Jackson was a B+ general manager.”
Phil is probably sitting in a log cabin right now stoned out of his mind on some exotic drugs that I never heard of but he still knows more about playing winning basketball than you or anyone else here. What he doesn’t know how to do is put a fair salary on each player or manage cap space. That was the job of the incompetent “GM’” that was basically forced on him from Dolan as part of the deal.
I get it. Everyone in the media and loads of people in the business hate Phil because he’s arrogant prick that had a ton of success as a coach. He’s the kind of guy that people want to fail.
Phil made several significant mistakes, but he as dealt the worst hand of all time. He was given an old team, no draft picks, and several players with long poisonous contracts. He left us with issues, but with a few young players, a lot of cap space, and some flexibility to move forward. The real damage was not done by Phil. It was done by the pinheads that followed him. That would be Mills and Perry that blew the 20m cap space with Hardaway, stretched Noah, gave away KP for trash, and missed an obvious MIkal Bridges selection (someone that would be mortal lock Phil selection).
Sure B+ is ridiculous, but no more biased that the basketball no nothings that are incapable of being objective about the period (as they are now with a great coach like Thibs because he doesn’t do it the way they like).
See what I mean?
Now THERE is a guy who won’t admit when he’s wrong. Get mad at him.
“It was Steve Mills’ fault” as if anybody is buying that bullshit
“JK47 says:
October 9, 2022 at 23:54
See what I mean?
Now THERE is a guy who won’t admit when he’s wrong. Get mad at him.”
Well you got me there…
“JK47 says:
October 9, 2022 at 23:48
The Mets had a bunch of players who are not real likely to repeat their great seasons. Lindor racked up 7 WAR, and Nimmo and McNeil both had 5 WAR.
This was an “everything went right” season that collapsed into ashes the moment NYM had to play important games. Not very encouraging for the future, although I guess Uncle Steve will just buy whatever pieces we need.”
I guess that’s the hope. But to be fair, the season overall went much better than I expected…it just stings that it ended with such a thud. That ATL series was very telling, though. They are miles ahead of us, and with a very young core. It sucks to be in the same division with them.
It was a much bigger mistake to trade Tim Hardaway for Jerian Grant then it was to sign him back. The 4 year, $71MM offer sheet actually panned out.
“JK47 says:
October 9, 2022 at 23:44
Wait a minute, you can find players like Mitch on the scrap heap for nothing, yet… it was smart that they re-signed Mitch? Which is it, are they smart or dumb?”
sigh…
Z-Man, I legitimately don’t get your point.
If you can just find Mitchell Robinsons anywhere, why would you want to re-sign him? Doesn’t that make it a bad move? What am I not understanding correctly?
“JK47 says:
October 10, 2022 at 00:25
Z-Man, I legitimately don’t get your point.
If you can just find Mitchell Robinsons anywhere, why would you want to re-sign him? Doesn’t that make it a bad move? What am I not understanding correctly?”
That’s not really the question, though. It’s whether it was dumb to risk losing him for nothing by not locking him up prior to the season. Are you just being antagonistic or have you actually been following the conversation for the last year? Because your overly simplistic question implies the former.
All right, fair enough. Although by your logic it still seems like the smart play would have been to let him walk, but you’re right, that’s not really what you’re talking about.
The important things today were the Jets destroyed the Dolphins and I bet the Cowboys moneyline
Rose had two offseasons to lock Mitch up to a very team-friendly deal, passed twice, and ended up paying him $70MM. I don’t think this points to him being very savvy.
As a courtesy if you’re actually being serious: My position since last offseason has been that the FO was making a perfectly logical decision to wait until they were sure that a) his foot was healed, b) he actually showed improvement as a 4th year player.
Some felt it was insane to risk losing him for nothing and that he should have been locked up right away, broken foot, injury-proneness, foul issues, etc. be damned. I disagreed and sided with management.
As the season progressed and Mitch was both healthy and improved, some lamented ad nauseum that he would likely leave in free agency. My position was that since the FO took the risk and Mitch made good, it was up to him whether he wanted to come back or not, and if he didn’t, no big deal because we could relatively easily find a reasonable adequate replacement for less than what he would command as a UFA. Maybe not as good as Mitch, but probably as good or better value.
Lo and behold, turns out he wanted to stay, and for pretty much the same money we would have gotten him for at the beginning of the season. The fears about him leaving for a much better offer than we could give him were totally unfounded. And had he left for close to the same money, we’d be talking about our new starting C, Isaiah Hartenstein, who might actually be as good or better at half the price, with Sims as a serviceable backup on a minimum deal.
“Rose had two offseasons to lock Mitch up to a very team-friendly deal, passed twice, and ended up paying him $70MM. I don’t think this points to him being very savvy.”
It’s 4-years, $60Mil, with descending numbers that pay him $13mil in his last year. Did one of Mitch’s many agents ask for a contract extension on very team-friendly and get rebuffed? I hadn’t heard anything…