2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bucks

UGH… Wally instead of Clyde

horror show

Will the Knicks lose by 20+ points today? This is a very bad mismatch today with Burks, RJ and Obi out.

There must have been a locker room issue which is keeping Kemba Walker on the bench

Once we start getting blown out, we should use this opportunity to play any young players that haven’t had much opportunity so far.

Fournier has taken two of the worst end-of-clock shots I have ever seen in the same game, an airball and a brick…

“There must have been a locker room issue which is keeping Kemba Walker on the bench”

I tend to agree. Sure, his on off was terrible and it’s clear he’s not the player he was, but the entire starting unit was terrible. If you switched Rose and Kemba, I bet Kemba would have looked better off the bench and vice versa.

I’m so excited to see the kids play that I don’t even care about the outcome that much.

“There must have been a locker room issue which is keeping Kemba Walker on the bench”

From all the reports Kemba took his Siberian Exile in a very professional and graceful way.

There are only two persons that don’t want him with the Knicks:
Tom Thibodeau and Julius Randle.

Watching this only for Grimes and IQ(and Mcbride?)

iq got his pocket picked by cousins…weak

Bulls with 8 players in the Health & Safety, LaVine the last to go in…

P.S. Now 9, they just added Troy Brown…

I pretty much despise Wally, but credit where credit is due — he’s barely said anything really stupid, and even made a few insightful comments so far. Only the first quarter, however.

The Kevin knox spectacular as predicted

Raven:
I pretty much despise Wally, but credit where credit is due — he’s barely said anything really stupid, and even made a few insightful comments so far. Only the first quarter, however.

~”I loved playing these early games. Some players don’t like them, but I used to train at 8am every morning, so I loved bringing it in these afternoon games. (When I used to play, I used to play, because I used to play, did I mention I used to play?)” 😉

Knox bringing a bit of a spark, IQ hitting some floaters.

lol knox played the full court hold my pocket prison yard d against middleton there

Z-man: this is a bit harsh, I didn’t interpret it that way at all. Not a fan of Wally at all tho

okay maybe i’m just cranky b/c this game is horrifying so far.

Grimes with two bad TO’s to go along with the assists. Rookie mistakes I suppose

at least football starts in 10 minutes…

breen making excuses for Randle now…

I’m so done with Randle.

That sucks that no one had Randles back there…

Our All-Star Point Forward is really unlucky:

Turnover, And-1 for Giannis

Turnover, nice block on Giannis, three pointer for Allen.

Two turnovers, 6 points for the Bucks.

Fournier continues to stink like a rotting corpse

Grim3s! x2

Randle looks as dazed and confused this year as he looked focused and confident last year.

Max:
Fournier is totally off, he passes all the good shots and takes all the bad ones…

And I can probably beat him off the dribble…

Yeah, I’m an E4 booster, but this is fugly.

Grimes>Barett

Okay, he’s young, he’s raw, he makes rookie mistakes,
but how will Thibs keep Grimes out of the rotation from now on?
He’ll have to play him right?

Max:
Okay, he’s young, he’s raw, he makes rookie mistakes,
but how will Thibs keep Grimes out of the rotation from now on?
He’ll have to play him right?

Love the Grimes story, but I haven’t really seen the promised upgrade at D from him. Anyone else?

KB Apprentice: Love the Grimes story, but I haven’t really seen the promised upgrade at D from him. Anyone else?

Rookies are notoriously bad on D. They have to learn the ropes, e.g. biting on that Middleton fake, helping unnecessarily on Giannis while leaving his man open for three…

Grimes’ turnovers are also those speed of game rookie mistake kind, sadly so are Randle’s

Z-man: Rookies are notoriously bad on D. They have to learn the ropes, e.g. biting on that Middleton fake, helping unnecessarily on Giannis while leaving his man open for three…

Totally willing to concede that, and I have no reason to dislike the guy. I just thought we weren’t gonna need to make those excuses for him, based on the chatter. Looking forward to his 2nd.

That Cavs montage is crazy, they are definitely for real, especially if Okoro gets it going.

Looks more and more like Mobley should have been the #1 pick, he looks sensational

If Grimes gets 30 legally we win trust me I looked it up.

(In all seriousness I’ve seen enough—he should be in the rotation going forward)

Grimes our Klay Thompson

Nice turnover by our veterans couple of Randle and Rose…

And another couple of threes for our rookie…

Grimes is the GOAT!

elon picked the wrong grimes

thenoblefacehumper:
RJ GOT WALLY PIPPED

haha. you beat me to it. RJ watching in a hotel room with a room service burger. oops.

E, all merc’d out:
Yeah, it’s still early and yeah he’s still young and yeah there’s something to be said about optimism and positivity … but I can’t begin to see what people see in Quentin Grimes.

LOL

Grimesanity?

As to that d there from Fournier…how do you say pylon in french?

ptmilo:
elon picked the wrong grimes

Goddammit that was the joke

No reason why Fournier should get minutes over Grimes at this point.

Wow Randle sucks.

phrases most used by Breen tonight:

– … and Randle turn it over

– Fournier from three… no good

Grimes’ arms must be tired

I hate these Caesars commercials

Knox and grimes adding some much needed shooting today.

Agree on the sports betting commercials. But happy JB is getting paid

Way to step up when we’re shorthanded Julius…

I would happily strip this team down to the studs, trade away every merc, trade away RJ, trade away Randle, and start with a core of IQ-Obi-Grimes and patiently build a team the right goddamn way for once.

But nooooooooooo

Nice strong move by Knox there…

Funny that they called it the Hospital for Special Surgery move of the game…

Z-man:
I hate these Caesars commercials

Me too…

“I would happily strip this team down to the studs, trade away every merc, trade away RJ, trade away Randle, and start with a core of IQ-Obi-Grimes and patiently build a team the right goddamn way for once.”

Trade RJ too?

How many top 5 picks and other top 10 lottery picks do you want to let walk or trade away between now 2030 before you see that approach is not nirvana either?

You have to use all the possible weapons. We have to execute better, not change the approach. I’m all for dumping Randle though. I’ve defended him for a long time, but as Phil once said, a zebra can’t change stripes. I was wrong on him.

For the record, this is the first double digits game of the season for Rodney Hood, who’s averaging 3 PPG…

why does everyone defer on offense to the stiff Randle?

Julius Randle, All-Star Point Forward, has 7 of the Knicks’ 15 turnovers and he’s 1-7 in a game where we’re undermanned…

Is Miles on the bench? Put him in. This game is over.

To my eye, IQ has improved every aspect of his game this year. Much better passer, better handle, defense, and all around game intelligence. Will his shot ever come back? I had hopes he would be averaging 18p/g.

I thought Miles was with the Westchester team but hes actually on the bench

Z-man:
I am exasperated with Thibs this game, letting Fournier and Julius play like this without benching them, and not trying McBride.

Not playing McBride while still keeping Kemba on the bench…

Thibs is shaming himself…

Knox!

Knox’s trade value just went up 500%

edit: lol DRed beat me to it

“Not playing McBride while still keeping Kemba on the bench…

Thibs is shaming himself…”

I’m his biggest fan here and he’s starting to lose me. We aren’t going to win this game. They are clowning with us. Play McBride at least. We have to take a look.

“Knox’s trade value just went up 500%”

5 times zero is still zero. 😉

I gave it a long thought, and now i think the difference this season is Selden… he’s no Pinson, and that is a huge difference. 😀

ship be sinkin’

Brook Lopez probably out for the season wonder what the Bucks would give up for Noel

46 seconds for McBride…. What a shame…

There were some bright spots….Thibs’ coaching was not one of them.

KB Apprentice:
Randle:
— maybe not that good?
— maybe no braids?
— maybe no empty arenas?
— maybe no sleep? (baby#2 in Oct)

It’s not the empty arenas, or he would’ve played like a superstar in San Antonio! ;P

Seven turnovers, 2 FG for the Knicks’ “leader.”

How fun would it be to have a team like Cleveland?

More fun than watching Market Rate Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel and Old Man Derrick Rose bumble around the court for 36 wins, that’s for damn sure.

Thibs in the post game said that Kemba will not play out of the bench but only as a starter
(so he basically needs a Covid cluster to see the floor) and that “it’s a coaching decision”.

KevinR:
Fox for Randle looking enticing right now.

People I’d gladly trade Randle for:
De’Aaron Fox
Rick Fox
Jamie Fox
Jimmie Foxx
Redd Foxx
Megan Fox
The Fox from “The Fox and the Hound”
Chris Wallace formerly of Fox News
Whoever was Jimi Hendrix’s Foxy Lady

JK47: None of this is going to get better until Leon Rose is gone.

This is an overreaction. But well timed!

Max:
Thibs in the post game said that Kemba will not play out of the bench but only as a starter
(so he basically needs a Covid cluster to see the floor) and that “it’s a coaching decision”.

I just can’t understand why this is the case. Kemba has been bad but he’s not literally unplayable. He should be getting spot minutes since our PG situation is dire and he can still pass even in this reduced state. Just puzzling. It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that Thibs is out of ideas and is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. Unlike when D’Antoni did this, there doesn’t seem to be a Linsanity-in-waiting for this team (though we should give Deuce, Grimes, and Luka every opportunity to be that for us!)

Okay, here goes…

Knox better than Barrett?

Slightly more seriously, since we never cut to the basket (except for Obi), perhaps there really is a role for Knox as Nouveau Novak.

Raven:
Okay, here goes…

Knox better than Barrett?

Slightly more seriously, since we never cut to the basket (except for Obi), perhaps there really is a role for Knox as Nouveau Novak.

It was one game and perhaps the shine would wear off if he got more time…but thibbsy in his deperation right now…might need to give him a looksy…
randle and fournier seem to be head cases right now…will be interesting to see how long thibs sticks with them…but given his allegiance to elf last yr…probably for awhile…

if rj and obi have covid then I think it is a minimum of 10 days and no telling how long burks will be out (i am sure he is looking up the max time allowed in his employment agreement right now)…so some of these guys (ex-kemba who is the deepest of deep freezes) will get extended minutes…even more so if julius needs some time to get away and clear his head…

the thing that sucks about Obi being in protocol is he would be the natural replacement for Julius

Raven:
Hope so, Pepper, but can you explain Rose 37 minutes, Deuce 46 seconds?

I mean Rose played well, but he really never should break the 30 minute mark…

agree…but you could’ve put your mortgage on it that thibs was gonna ride rose “like secretariat” today…he can’t control himself…really inexecusable to do that for at an attempt to win what was really not a winnable game…it seems like he backed himself in a corner with the “kemba is a starter” crap and if he ain’t playing deuce than he is going to grind rose into a nub…

@EDemirNBA

Rokas Jokubaitis played 24 minutes today.

He ended the game with 9 points and 3 assists today on 4/7 shooting (1/2 from deep)

Notable:
not a single turnover as the leading ball handler.

He’s showing consistency in each game on one of the best teams in Europe

Losing this game isn’t indicative of much on its own but another data point on the “Randle might not be that good front” is not a welcome sight.

I can’t necessarily get on board the Deuce train. Most rookie point guards are terrible and he struggled finishing against NCAA defenses a year ago so I’m kind of willing to take Thibs at his (implied) word that he’s simply not ready. There’s no excuse for Grimes not being a rotation mainstay for the foreseeable future though. He can take minutes from RJ, Fournier, or both for all I care. Ditto for Obi when he gets back. Seems like the rare situation in which we should probably just play the kids because the season is derailing anyway, and it might actually help re-rail the season.

I like watching Fox play but wouldn’t really want him on the Knicks. We’d be paying a lot in both trade assets and salary, and we still would not be addressing our “point guard who can break down a defense AND shoot” need that has existed for the entirety of my time as a Knicks fan save for a few weeks in 2011-2012.

Fox looked like he could “anything” for awhile. but he can’t shoot and I don’t think he’s the long term solution.

37 minutes for Derrick Rose in a 15-point blowout that was never in doubt is… let’s just say it doesn’t make Tom Thibodeau seem real smart

I’m not totally out on the Leon Rose regime just yet. I think their next moves will make or break the team for the foreseeable future.

They prioritized flexibility this summer, passing on intriguing opportunities like Lonzo and incinerating draft picks in the process. Some moves were better than others but it all kind of added up to being “defensible” and not much more. Now it’s time to show that the moves they did make actually rendered the team flexible. It would be an awful look if there was no Plan B if Plan A, which was something like “make the team decent enough that a superstar demands a trade to the Knicks,” failed.

They’ve hit some pretty solid singles and doubles e.g. the Quickley pick but that stuff only matters so much if you can’t get elite talent in your building one way or the other. These guys thought they could do that without a lottery pick(s). That’s looking like some bullshit, so we’ll have to see how they respond to that.

Boy, that Randle extension went from “did his agent commit malpractice” to “how many firsts would we have to attach to trade him” real quick, huh?

thenoblefacehumper
December 12, 2021 at 8:05 pm
I’m not totally out on the Leon Rose regime just yet. I think their next moves will make or break the team for the foreseeable future.

I know what you mean. We did stuff over the summer that didn’t seem to improve the team much if at all. But in their defense, if they really believe they are going to improve by developing players they drafted, it was going to take longer than just one season. So hiring two year players but keeping our picks and developing them may really happen. (even though it’s a total break with Knicks traditional team management).

I’m really not sure the contracts damaged our flexibility that much. Some pundits are saying that trades for top level players are much more likely than signing them as free agents because of the new extension rules. If that’s the case, having a bunch of mid priced player contracts doesn’t hurt our flexibility much.

I don’t think any of the three options describes what I think Knick’s management will do. Most likely we continue to be a mediocre team. Then I expect management will conclude that we have a number of reasonable role players. We actually have enough of them that our bench is very good. They will then look for opportunities to get top talents that aren’t old and keep developing our draft picks. If they don’t get those opportunities I actually expect patience on their part, and they won’t actually do much except keep drafting new players. In the alternative, that we are really bad this year, then maybe they will pick option three.

Early Bird:
More Grimes.

More Obi.

More Deuce.

More IQ.

“over my dead body ” – Tom “play the vets” Thibodeau

JK47: The situation we are in is not the kind of situation you want Leon Rose to be navigating.

True, but we don’t get to choose. He is at the helm and will remain there for the next couple of years at least. So the question is: how good can Leon do going forward, given the current situation? You seem to be saying that he has little hope of being successful given what we’ve seen so far. I disagree and would counter that we’ve seen good and bad, and that our future path is largely undetermined given our contract/asset/draft situation. I don’t blame him for Julius and RJ sucking as badly as they have, and even Fournier’s suckitude was kind of unpredictable. Kemba was not a horrible gamble, it just didn’t work out. So I’m not out on Rose, but the clock is definitely ticking.

had a good day today, despite spending time watching both the knicks and giants play…

actually got shit done around the house today, not always a guarantee on the weekend, or any other day…hope all is well for you dude…

had a good day today, despite spending time watching both the knicks and giants play…

I am not watching the Giants of late, but am taking great pleasure in their struggles. I don’t trust John Mara at all to recognize that the organization needs a top-to-bottom overhaul led by someone wholly outside the family circle. But I also believe that the only chance that has of happening, however remote, is if the losing just becomes so consistent and humiliating that he has no choice but to consider that his way of business isn’t freaking working.

Burn it all to the ground and start over. Letting Gettleman “retire” won’t be good enough. Everyone must go.

Alan I concur with all of your thoughts on the Giants but would prefer your thoughts on the Succession season finale

Wasn’t there some scuttlebutt indicating Kemba asked to rest for a game and Thibs went apeshit?

Again, the “scuttlebutt” was one tweet by Berman of the Post, who is both a noted shit-stirrer and a noted hater of all things load management. Everyone else on the beat seems to have rolled their eyes at that.

I agree with others that something must have gone down behind the scenes to merit Kemba getting so thoroughly Pinson’ed. I just don’t believe that’s what caused it.

You know, I’m not buying it that Randle is playing terribly. He’s been getting lots of rebound and a lot of assists in the last two games. Teams are keying in on him whenever he heads for the paint and he’s passing out a lot of the time, but the Knick left open is often one like Toppin who can’t or isn’t making outside shots. The people he passes too often don’t get a shot off quickly enough, and the other team closes out. Then the shot clock runs down and someone, often Randle, ends up playing hero ball. I think we did upgrade our shooting compared to last season, but not enough to stop teams from keying on Randle. Then our worse defense let’s them score too much.

@IanBegley
Luka Samanic – reigning G League Player of the Week & league’s No. 2 scorer – was inactive in Westchester’s loss on Sunday. He’d played in the past 6 games. There was no official mention of an injury. NYK is currently down 3 rotation players. Maybe Samanic is getting a call-up?

Alan I concur with all of your thoughts on the Giants but would prefer your thoughts on the Succession season finale

Just waiting for my editor to finish going through the recap and hitting the publish button. Tick tock…

I am not watching the Giants of late, but am taking great pleasure in their struggles. I don’t trust John Mara at all to recognize that the organization needs a top-to-bottom overhaul led by someone wholly outside the family circle. But I also believe that the only chance that has of happening, however remote, is if the losing just becomes so consistent and humiliating that he has no choice but to consider that his way of business isn’t freaking working.

Burn it all to the ground and start over. Letting Gettleman “retire” won’t be good enough. Everyone must go.

until yourself and some other other folks talked about it a while back – i had no idea there was an ownership issue…i thought the giants were some old-school, pillar of the league ownership family or something…

i mean, it’s obvious something is wrong with the team…although i will say, 2 championships this century is better than the yanks, and fuhget about the freaking knicks…

what teams consistently compete despite bad ownership?

or, you could say we addressed weaknesses that were exposed in the playoffs during the off-season…and, currently we are still in the process of implementing an offense that won’t stagnate during playoff basketball…

i believe in julius…

or, you could say – we still don’t have a freaking starting point guard…i mean how stupid is that…it’s like every year is a new year and for some reasons the lessons of the past, just are ignored…

get a point guard already – although, graham and the pelicans aren’t doing so well, neither is lowry and the heat…other than ball, did any other starting point guards change teams?

i don’t know what the solution is, but burks ain’t the answer…

How was Grimes?! Is this kind of scoring burst sustainable? Is he really that good? (I loved him before the draft, just sayin’…)

Z-man:
My take on Grimes:
-The 3pt jumper is legitimatrly wet
-has potential as a 2 on both ends
-some basic passing and rebounding skills
-scrappy on D but might struggle against length and speed
-can get his shot off, both the on catch and the dribble
-not sure if he can get to the rim
-looks like a find at #25, a legit NBA rotation player at worst

That’s great, thanks. He seems like a high IQ guy so I think that should help him, but who knows how these things work.

I don’t remember hearing Kemba say he’s okay with coming off the bench. He’s been a starter all of his life and probably sees himself as a starter still. Maybe Thibs is just respecting Kemba’s wishes. I thought they benched him a little early, but once they did there’s really no going back. It’s kind of like benching your starting quarterback. At this point I think they should just start Rose until one of the Kids is ready.

They’re 7-14 in their last 21 games; that doesn’t even rise to the level of mediocre.(*) Teams running at that pace with an old roster are typically sellers.

(*) 23rd in net rating, pretty tame schedule, not really any injury or COVID issues of any significance (at least until yesterday). It’s a meh team at best.