From Marc Berman:
When Dennis Smith Jr. got booed off the court at the Garden in late October, the lone player to go over to him on the bench was Knicks shooting guard Damyean Dotson.
Those are the type of quiet leadership gestures Dotson does that go unnoticed by a Knicks front office now two administrations removed from drafting him. That makes the 25-year-old’s future highly uncertain as he enters free agency.
Dotson did not play in eight of the last nine games, including the double-overtime potential season finale March 11 in Atlanta.
“That seemed the writing on the wall,’’ one NBA scout said of the demotion. “You’d think they’d be still trying to develop him.’’
According to NBA sources, three prominent organizations — the Jazz, Bucks and Warriors — are expected to show some interest in Dotson, who made $1.6 million this season as a “3-and-D’’ prototype.
“He’s got a great work ethic, leadership qualities and toughness,’’ former Knicks coach David Fizdale told The Post this week. “He’s extremely coachable and dedicated teammate. Totally committed to the culture with a consistently good attitude regardless of his minutes.’’
I have no beef with Dotson as a basketball player, but I also don’t think losing him will make that much of an impact. However, if other teams just try to get him for the minimum, the Knicks should probably try to at least beat that.
Also, rather than that Smith Jr. thing being a sign of Dotson being a good leader, isn’t it kind of a bad sign for everyone else on the team? Or is Smith Jr. just a dick and the others all hate him?
198 replies on “NY Post: Why Damyean Dotson’s future with Knicks is uncertain”
Join the club, Damyean!
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Mt89FHYZn/?igshid=3ai7zuz4nlu0
Dotson’s 25, he’s not shown much improvement, and he’s not particularly good. I guess he’s got a bit of upside left, but given where we are I’d let him go
I heard that Dotson’s way of comforting Smith jr was to say “don’t worry Dennis, Mr Dolan will have them all banned from the garden for this.”
I like Dotson too, but keeping him is a tough call. He projects to be a reasonable three and D type role player, but I have to say that Knox could be that too. And even though I’m not thrilled with Knox, he’s so much younger I’d probably make the call in favor of him. You could also make the case that it’s better to keep Iggy.
Given that the Knicks want enough veterans on the team to field a coherent thirty something win team the Knicks could also have trouble finding roster spots given that they have two first round picks and a second rounder presumably joining the team next year. I say presumably because it’s always possible one of the picks is a draft and stash.
I think if we just don’t re-sign him and some other team picks him up he doesn’t have Bird rights anymore. Another team might want to have Bird rights so maybe we could re-sign him and then trade him and a small asset in return.
where you finish is much more important than where you start…although, considering the whole ashes to ashes and dust to dust thing – i guess the most important thing is really the journey in between those two points 🙂
In other news, Leon Rose has been “impressed” with Mike Miller according to Begley, so there’s that.
At least Rose seems to be taking the time to evaluate what he has before he takes any actions. I agree, this is faint praise, but still, it could be worse.
**At least Rose seems to be taking the time to evaluate what he has before he takes any actions. I agree, this is faint praise, but still, it could be worse.**
I mean, the league is shut down. Is anybody making moves? That would be crazy to fire/hire a coach right now.
out of musical memories, I was white kid from suburbs. Found my way into inner city, Folk clubs, jazz clubs in early seventies. Being it was Detroit, found my way to the Motown Review during Christmas time at a large theater, the Fox on Woodward ave. Two years in a row I swear that my girlfriend and i were the only white faces in the house. All the Motown acts would come out and do 3 songs each. Martha and the Vandenlla’s, Diana Ross and the Supremes, The Tempations, Little Steve Wonder, Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrel, the Four Tops. etc. Everyone was in evening clothes except us two Hippies. Would go to Baker’s Keyboard Lounge remember Pharaoh Sanders shaking his chains into the microphone. Seeing all the folk acts at the
Chess Mate.coffee house. A high point sitting in back with Joanne Mitchell, giving her rum for her coke from the pint in my coat.. Good times
Same. Use the spot for another flyer. If he gets picked up by somebody else more power to him.
That’s super cool. I’m a big fan of Pharoah and the whole aesthetic of the Impulse label.
There must have been some groovy people up in that place! I’ll take a time machine to that show anytime.
There was a time (long, long ago) that we as Knick fans were known for one thing. That was ‘The most knowledgeable fans in the league’. Sadly from what I read from all outlets that post fans comments. I don’t see it anymore. I see no one with a grasp of the basic knowledge of BB(let alone ‘Real BB’). To think that no one said Dotson is a valuable player to the Knicks is not conceivable to me. The best all-around player on this team and not one fan in the blog says ‘Yes’ by all mean keep Dot.
Where have all the knowledgeable fan gone?? If you wonder why we are in the sad state as a team. Just look at the Front Office and then look at the fans. They are mirror images of one another. SAD!!!
I think he’s been a lock for an assistant coach job for some time now.
Is this, like, performance art or something?
**To think that no one said Dotson is a valuable player to the Knicks is not conceivable to me. The best all-around player on this team and not one fan in the blog says ‘Yes’ by all mean keep Dot.**
I mean, even if what you say is true and Dotson IS the best all-around player on the team, it kind of would just show how terrible the team is, not how valuable Dotson is.
Dotson is going to go to some other team and also not play and it will make absolutely no difference to anyone except the dudes being booed.
Dotson is back-of-roster filler who is probably going to drift around back ends of NBA rosters for another 2-3 years before disappearing.
The End.
Actually what I’m talking about!!
Thanks, Dark Raider. I love playing Guess Which Old Poster Came Back Under a New Name.
i’m gonna go with bc being the winner of that round of responses…
i humbly submit my response for your consideration:
fortunate for you that you’re a knick fan and quite familiar with disappointment and sadness…
seeing as how this site here loves us some statistical analyzing (some of us anyway)…please, share some numbers to amaze and astound…why in the hell do we need dot on this team…
better yet – find some lyrics to illustrate mister dotson’s bb worth and submit that for review…
extra points if you yourself can see the lyrics or play the music…
At least you can conceive that Dotson may be valuable. You just made your first step back to realty. Nobody get rid of valuable players except those that know nothing about BB. First question is Dotson the worst player on this team? Just answer to yourself!!
My bet is ClydePolice.
Again, this is actually what I’m talking about. If you ask the question “Why in the hell doe we need Dot on this team”. This shows why as a team and fans you in the sad state of affairs. If talent knot on your door would you know it because you definitely can find it any other way.
If you have a better all-round player on this team… Then name him?
Hey Hubert… sorry not the guy you think I am.
Is this the “Nate Robinson is awesome” guy?
Everybody remember him? I think it’s that guy.
How does one politely say oh fuck youuuuuuuu
I can’t say for certain who this new jack is, but I’ve heard the sentiment before.
Nate Robinson was awesome. At dunking. For a little guy.
..in a holistic sense, yes, he very well might be. Iggy might develop, DSj might have a scrap of trade value left, Knox might develop, and everybody else is straight up better at basketball. Wait, forgot about Wooten, also might develop.
Oh shit, I missed the part where I was supposed to only answer to myself. Not a great way to spark discussion. Sorry, not sorry.
hey…you got more of these dank fader…things are a little slow bb wise at the moment…
oh, of the one hundred and thirty seven free agents we have on the roster – if you could keep 3, whom would they be?
i’m going: harkless, payton and trier…i kind of like portis – but, damn sure not at 18 mil, or, whatever he made this year…
you know, forget, i don’t really like portis that much…sadly, after morris left he was the only one though who could hit a three consistently…
Italian Stallion, dogrufus, Clyde Police, iyamwutiam, vinnie, The Fat Kid…
I haven’t even guessed yet! You’re definitely someone we know. And for you to be using a different name now means you probably embarrassed yourself so much in the past that you can’t even use your name. So I’ll just wait patiently until you reveal which poster you are.
Speaking of old KB posters and memories, how about a Great Moments In Knickerblogger History segment to pass a day of NBA shutdown.
I’ll submit this one: the day ruruland, who claimed to have access to Anthony’s inner-circle, proclaimed “If Melo signs the full max with the Knicks or anyone else, I’ll leave this board in shame. I’ll become a verb in the Knickerblogger lexicon as I’ll have done the anatomically impossible.” http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2014-01-18/
(It actually started here, when he wrote: “I’ve laid the case here before; I think he has everything he wants in life but a ring and the chance at immortality in NY. I think he sees 2015 as the beginning of truly building his legacy…Boilerplate, whatever, most of these guys play for the same thing. Melo is unique in that his legacy can really go either way, and I don’t think he has the same kind of happiness in life if he doesn’t finish what he set out to do or bring home a championship (at least come really close) in NYC. I think there are widespread misconceptions about his awareness about place in the league. I think it’s actually been a self-consuming part of his psyche, trying to live up to Lebron, and Wade, it’s eaten him up in the past. I think every year that goes by where he doesn’t build on his post-season resume is one that sticks to the very core of his identity, eats at him more and more. He plays it off so well, so non-nonchalant about it, the whole smiling and vapid laugh, but ask any media member who takes postseason defeats harder than Melo. As if he doesn’t grasp what he’s playing for. http://knickerblogger.net/a-rebuttal-why-the-andrea-bargnani-trade-is-a-great-move-for-the-knicks/ )
In fairness, he was right.
Remember Melo took that $3mm discount in year 2 so Phil could get him a 2nd super star? Of course, he leveraged that tremendous sacrifice into a full NTC.
**In fairness, he was right.**
Um, no. That’s why when MMM happened he wrote:
“Well, was pretty sure Melo would opt and re-sign in NY all along, but disappointed he took close to the max. That was not what I heard, and of course was later confirmed by comments he made.”
And later in the same thread:
“not sure how much I’ll be around. Still lurk, but gosh the arguments never change haha”
-er, summer of 2013
Exactly. Melo took a discount!
I’m just making a joke about how great melo thought he was for his “sacrifice”. He made a big deal of it himself.
Funny you mention him. He’s my first guess for Dark Raider.
RIP- Curly Neal
what a funny bunch of regulars we are…reminds me of the scene from return of the living dead when that old zombie guy croaks in to the mike: send more cops
yes, send more psyches please for us to overwhelm and devour 🙂
speaking of fun folks to fuck with – were you at räz???
still has the most epic line i’ve ever read in a knickerblogger game thread…i think it was a post all-star break game and sometime during the 3rd quarter or so of what had been a half dozen or so posters kicking in, everyone went silent…ras had 3 or 4 posts in a row with no response or comment in-between…suddenly he sends out this desperate (my interpretation of course) plea: where the fuck did everyone go
it was such an honest, vulnerable and hilarious moment all wrapped up in one…
in all seriousness – hope you and the family are doing well brother…
Worst player on the team and player you would least like yo keep are two different things. Potential matters, even though we often disagree on who has it.
Who was it that blamed the team’s performance on clyde’s commentary?
Fizdale talked about Knock needs. See
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-david-fizdale-shooting-point-guards-20200325-eittelh7l5atdbj6tf2mr2vsny-story.html
**who was it that blamed the team’s performance on clyde’s commentary?**
The legendary Clyde Police.
The greatest poster ever.
(Only possibly to be dethroned by the Damyean Dotson Is The Best Knick poster. We’ll see if he has sustainability, but he’s off to a good start!)
Who was it that blamed the team’s performance on clyde’s commentary?
That was Clydepolice IIRC
I’m tempted to just nip it in the bud. But eh, whatever, we can live with the lulz for now.
First Record i bought at age 8
Duran Duran – Arena
Dotson is the definition of the filler*
*(A song in an album that is not so good unlike the other songs and is only added so it would become an album.)
First album I remember buying was Green Day’s American Idiot. I was in middle school and everyone was listening to that album.
I was not that into music as a kid, so I survived off my parent’s CD’s for a long time: Simon & Garfunkel, the Beatles, Beach Boys, Billy Joel, etc.
Dotson is 25 year old marginal NBA player. Take however upset you were about losing Langston Galloway, 24 year old acceptable rotation player, and divide it in half.
When i was just a little boy i had a strange “fear” of boredom.
Of losing real interest in life’s activities.
I started developing passion for many and different stuff/hobbies to the point that nowadays i must choose between many various ones to enjoy on my limited free time.
When i see someone complaining about boredom i know he has to start searching for his soul’s real needs.
what the hell man…i’m having issues – this was supposed to be the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceI6yrf3ZzY reference the whole send more cops thing from return from the living dead…which, after maybe dawn of the dead is my favorite dead flic…
somehow some different link got in there…
Another Great Moment in Knickerblogger History:
October 15th, 2008 – a 22 year old The Honorable Cock Jowles makes his first post.
https://knickerblogger.net/knicks-will-be-good-on-d-dammit-oh-and-glad-to-be-back/
(Interestingly, he arrives on the same thread that Heri and Thall The Gay Knick Fan, who had been popping in in unison for several threads to troll the KB community, mysteriously disappear and never post again. Coincidence?? Perhaps we shall never know…)
Big Coltrane fan too.
Mostly After his bebop phase.
And also LOVE Alice Coltrane’s & PSanders’ Spiritual jazz stuff.
nothing like hearing one of the kids tell me how bored they are to totally trigger me…first comes ridicule, followed closely by an intense sense of jealousy…
totally lost it earlier today after getting shot in the back of the head by one of the nerf guns for like the 10th time in the last couple of days…i mean what the hell, the head makes up like what, maybe 10 to 15% of your total profile…surely it can’t be that hard to target some other part of the body…
bought some safety glasses a while back to avoid any serious issues…never forget a few months ago hitting the perfect shot from about 15 feet away – stuck it right on the left eye glass…it was a beautiful bonding moment…
Of course my first post is threatening to quit being a Knicks fan.
I coulda sworn that THCJ pre-dated me on this blog…senility is a bitch
I think some here like Weyes Blood. If so, You might want to know he’s performing live on the internet tonight
https://pitchfork.com/news/weyes-blood-to-perform-live-on-instagram-with-pitchfork/amp/
I can’t believe it’s been 12 years since the Italian Stallion was around. Lots of other bygone regular posters there as well.
Was IT the first regular poster to be banned?
You barely ever qualifed as one (perhaps to your credit).
**I can’t believe it’s been 12 years since the Italian Stallion was around. Lots of other bygone regular posters there as well.**
Yeah, reading through those threads is funny. They are DOMINATED by Italian Stallion, Ted Nelson, and jonabbey, all of whom since banned. Alas.
RIP Curly Neal….great Globetrotter from my youth.
Important update: Just finished binge-watching season 2 of The Wire. Liking it a lot. Omar is a trip.
Oh seasons 3 and 4 are hands down the best seasons, have fun in the pit of despair for awhile
That’s what is so amazing about The Wire. I loved Season 2 and it’s so much worse than Season 3 and 4. So, yeah, you have some amazing TV ahead of you. Season 5 is still good, as well, but it has only 10 episodes, so combine wrapping the series up and having less episodes to work with was a very bad combination.
I find the working remotely to be more work than working in the office. I was expecting to be asking for movie and show recommendations
I remember Curly Neal almost as much from the cartoon as, I guess, the Globetrotters on Wide World of Sports. RIP
any words from the wise on getting shit done from the house?
finally got around to setting up a work station…i had something before, but, nothing i could really put time in at…sometime next week i wanna set up a spot out in the garden…that may just be the highlight of my week…
started investing sometime in the early 90’s…my dream at the time was to work from my laptop at different spots along the monterey coast watching money…
things have been a bit chaotic recently; but, i need to find a way to get more done in the next week at home…
hell, i really need to stop spending so much time venting here…i’m stressed…sorry, i’ve been even a little more than normal…or, maybe i was always typing so much, and, i’m just too faded to either notice or care…
Geo, you’re a KB treasure. Vent as needed, we love you and your vents. Stress is the new normal. Or even more stress is. I’ve worked from home a good part of my life, so this ‘change’ feels welcome to me. My only recommendations are: only take whatever meds you normally might need to get through a regular work day; make a task list every day — and break tasks down to their constituent parts like Read X, Make notes about X, Write up summary of X (don’t just write “Do X”, as doing X might take a week and your list should be what you can do that day, otherwise X ends up feeling like a fucking albatross because it’s never done); then cross each one off as you complete them, and include household chores in there, like water the plants, do the dishes, wipe down the Fed Ex box (sometimes you have to do and cross those off first to get your ass motivated to get to the paid work part); and don’t start drinking until 5 (okay, 4:30) as a reward for getting through the day and hopefully crossing off half the things on your list.
How would I go about finding my first post? I lurked on the site for a few years starting around the early D’antoni days. I believe I probably started posting in 2010 or 2011? I was a Knicks blog poster for a few years back when that had a big online community.
First album? Thriller. I had it on tape. Listened to it on a portable tape player. Was in the 1st grade. I listened to it so much that my Dad one night got angry when I wouldn’t come inside for dinner, yanked the tape player out of my hands and chucked it up onto the roof of our house, shattering the tape player. I burst into tears. My mom got so mad at my Dad. It was the only time I ever saw my Dad truly angry at me.
IT worked out in the end though. The tape was fine and my Dad ended up buying me one of those sweet double tape players where you could copy tapes.
I got this post from 2013 by Googling your handle and Knickerblogger.net
http://knickerblogger.net/is-james-dolan-a-hypocrite-a-by-the-numbers-investigation/
The market is vomiting up the federal stimulus plan it just got force fed. Had to get it out fast, though, I guess. If you have a bazooka, the important thing is that you shoot the rockets into the air as fast as possible.
Yeah if that was my first post, it does not age well. This might be the infamous thread that Jowles always pulls from to put me in my place. I was really high on The Knicks prospects after that 54 win season. But really, can you blame me? It was our best season in forever and we swept Miami that year in the regular season.
I still believe we had a shot that year if things had just gone a little different for us. If Melo wasn’t playing with a seperated shoulder, if we’d swept Boston…if Chandler hadn’t been just returning from an injury…if Kidd wasn’t gassed…if Woodson played Copeland!
That team was definitely a win now team but you gotta wonder what direction our franchise would have gone in if we had just beaten The Pacers that year. Maybe Kidd doesn’t retire. Maybe they don’t panic trade for Bargs. Who knows.
Ok so lookit..
Quarantine Blues got me bored so I wanna see if someone can come up with an NBA starting 5 of players since the Jordan era that can beat mine. The deal is you can’t use Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, or Shaq.
Let’s argue lol..here’s mine:
C- Dream
PF- KG
SF- Pippen
SG- Ray Allen
PG- AI
Look..we all bored so u might as well fall on in
That’s a fun game!
PG – Kidd
SG – Klay Thompson
SF – Pippen
PF – Dirk
C – Duncan
These aren’t necessarily the best players besides the ones you mentioned, but I was trying to create a balanced team of passing, scoring and defense.
C-Dream
PF-Duncan
SF-Durant
SG-Wade
PG-Steph
Second team:
C: Admiral
PF: Dirk
SF: Barkley
SG-Reggie
PG-Nash
awwww, thanks for your kind words raven, I really appreciate it…
one of mom’s favorite sayings as I was growing up: don’t show your ass in public…oh well, too late for that I guess…
always been glad that for the most part I’ve been a person whom didn’t really need people…I guess I’m a little more reliant on you all than I may have realized…
simple and smart suggestion…I usually only do this when things get really busy at work…things aren’t really that busy though…
I think what’s throwing me off is that my personal life (which includes trying to make sure my home is in order for the current situation andhaving the kids in the house) is running in to my work life…
makes good sense though, a “to do list” which incorporates both work and personal stuff should help a bunch…
my mind fixates on mental lists all the time, and, usually that’s sufficient to accomplish what’s needed…those mental lists just aren’t working well enough for me now…I guess I need to acknowledge and account for the fact I’m a bit overwhelmed at the moment…
I also think I need to ease up on watching the news so much too…that seems to be adding more to my stress…
Don’t knock advanced stats god CP3…
I’m assuming I can play guys at any position I want, in that case…
PG: CP3/Curry
SG: Curry/Harden
SF: Kawhi/Barkley
PF: Durant/Barkley
C: Robinson/AD
I’m not going to sully this thread by engaging with his laughable ignorance of basic historical fact, but could we maybe commission a post solely designated for wetbandit, wherein he explains to me how racism has never really been a big deal in America? I promise I will be gentle in my rebukes of his dumb ass opinions.
By the way, I made DRed’s Korean fire chicken again. What a dish, and so easy too.
[google Serious Eats, Korean Fire Chicken — Knickerblogger will not let me post links anymore : ( ]
My only note is that the reduction time is undershot quite a bit. I have a fancy induction range and I still couldn’t get it to reduce to 1.5c in <8 minutes without cranking the heat to high and scorching it.
Swift, Z, and wetbandit, I like those teams. I’m a little jealous now seein CP3, Dirk, Kawhi, and Robinson- all of whom never crossed my mind. Nice
Curry
Kawhi
Durant
Davis
Duncan
Your team would get smashed. Curry over Iverson alone is a handicap you couldn’t overcome. Curry would score like 20% more points on the same number of shots, and good luck scoring enough over the other 4 defenders to bridge the gap.
this sounds like a fun nba 2k20 challenge…i’m sure they must have a mode where you can put together all time teams and players…
oh yeah, my list:
PG: cp3
SG: ray allen
SF: kawhi or durant…go with kawhi by a slim margin…
PF: duncan
C: tough one – the dream or shaq…probably go with the dream…
Yeah I was thinking putting Iverson on a team like this is a pretty bad idea. It would be fun to watch how fast the other players turn on him, though.
Jowles’ team is going to be tough to beat. My best attempt to top it without using any of your players:
Paul
Pippen
Giannis
Nowitzki
Garnett
luka
kawhi
giannis
durant
davis
i don’t really get lebron’s sentiment on being so dismissive of playing without fans in attendance – that sounds selfish…i get that it must feel a lot like playing music in an empty arena – no crowd feedback, but what the heck about all the folks watching at home – aren’t we fans too…
Harden
Manu Ginobili
KD
Giannis
KG
That’s a dope ass team too, but I’m banking on AI as my wild card on offense. Makes me wanna load up the xbox and experiment lol
Forgot about CP3, Kawhi and Harden! Here are my revisions:
I’m fine with Duncan as a C…he played half of his minutes there, but most “all-time great” listings consider him a PF.
Man there are some great choices. I might have to switch out Kidd with CP3 and Pippen with Giannis
CP3
Klay
Giannis
Dirk
Duncan
Its hard because the current crop of elite non Lebron players are so good but the game has also really changed in the last 5 years with the increased 3 point shooting. I have no doubt dudes like Reggie and Ray Allen would shoot an even higher volume of 3’s than they did when they played and probably would have had more of a green light to let it loose from further range. As ridiculous as dudes like Steph and Klay are, I still feel like Reggie might have had the wettest 3 point shot in the history of the game. Or maybe I’m just traumatized by his performance in the 1999 conference finals when he made the choke signal to spike (THOSE WERE THE MUTHAFUCKIN DAYS!)
Nobody wants to play Rodman at the 5?!
It’s hard because Iverson’s peak was during the hand-check era, Paul’s in the grinding defense era (the Celtics won Game 7 in 2009 by a score of 83-79, after scoring 67 points the game prior!) and Curry’s in the pace-and-space era. Curry would still be better than Iverson if magically dropped into the 2001 season, but I imagine that hand checking would do some things to his game. Same with Doncic. They rely on the ability to begin motion unimpeded, albeit in very different ways: Curry with his weaving screen use, and Doncic with his strong first step and downhill touch.
Doncic needs to learn to shoot the deep ball before he’s considered.
PG – Curry
SG – Thompson
SF – Iguodala
PF- Durant
C – Green
(We already know it works)
dotson
dotson
dotson
dotson
dotson
Here’s a KB-worthy mindbender:
Which 5 Knicks players since 2000 would give any of the teams above the best challenge? (nobody who played on the mid-’90s teams. please!)
Here’s a KB-worthy mindbender:
Which 5 Knicks players since 2000 would give any of the teams above the best challenge? (nobody who played on the mid-’90s teams. please!)
Is that assuming they were in their prime years when they may have been on another squad or in their washed up years as members of the knicks?
Good question, but it needs a ground rule. If you pick say, Kidd, at point guard, do you count his play at the age and quality of when he played for the Knicks or can you pick him and assume he’s playing as he did at his peak?
I think it’s gotta be their play as a Knick. So you can get prime Melo, but you get old man Metta World Peace and Jason Kidd.
I’m going to assume you pick
Players as they played on the Knicks. Then I suggest
C Chandler
PF Melo or Amare
SF Morris
SG Houston
PG Marbury
Ewing’s last season with the Knicks was 1999 to 2000 and he was over the hill at that point so I don’t see how you can include him
What is the Knicks 2000-2020 allstar team by position and year?
PG – Marbury, 2005
SG – Houston, 2001
SF – Anthony, 2013
PF – Stoudemire, 2011
C – Camby, 2001 or Chandler 2012
This is a really sad “best foot forward” team. I wonder if it would beat ANY other franchise in a similar matchup? (Even the Twolves have guys like Garnett, Love, Towns, and Butler over the past 20 years.)
Yeah, I missed the post 2000 part. 🙂
Knicks team since 2000:
PG – Billups
SG – Kidd
SF – Gallinari
PF – David Lee (I mean it’s almost definitely Melo, but whatever)
C – Chandler
It really gives you an idea of how godforsaken we have been for coming up on 2 decades
I didn’t like him at the time, but Quentin Richardson at the 3 would pair really well with Melo at the 4, right?
Marbury
Kidd
Almost washed up Q-Rich
Melo
Chandler
An interesting mix of defense and offense.
It’s sad because you really almost could justify putting Dotson on the team. I think Gallinari deserves the spot, even in his limited work with the Knicks.
Also if you can play guys out of position, Starbury + Billups makes sense as a backcourt and probably our 2 best backcourt players of the last 20 years. Maybe Lin’s short run.
*“It really gives you an idea of how godforsaken we have been for coming up on 2 decades”*
Yup.
The Timberwolves are our closest rival for least wins over the past 20 years. Their allstar team looks like this:
PG – Cassel, 2004
SG – Butler, 2018
SF – Kirilenko, 2013
PF – Love, 2014
C – Garnett, 2004
That team wipes the floor with us.
Billups was just about washed up, too, but yeah, fair enough, Marbury/Billups works, too. I really like Kidd’s defense, though. I definitely think that you have to go two point guards, because the Knicks’ 2s have been pretty crummy. One decent Houston season and that’s about it.
Yeah, same. Billups did play really damn well in that half a season though
great, we had to ruin the mood by discussing the knicks…
i would never pick starbury for anything – i know he turned it around in china, but yeah…hard to choose melo too – not for anything he’s done, more for want he didn’t do, like make his teammates better…
PG: kidd
SG: houston
SF: harkless
PF: stat
C: chandler
Maybe the Hawks are as uninspiring:
PG – Young, 2020
SG – Johnson, 2012
SF – Williams, 2012
PF – Millsap, 2016
C – Horford, 2010
That’s a pretty shitty 20 year best offering too.
I’d swap in these two:
SF – DeMarre Carroll 2015
C – Dwight Howard 2017 (move Horford to PF)
My first instinct was to run a team of the worst Knicks of the last 20 years out there as a joke.
You have got a very solid frontcourt in Curry and Bargs. But then it gets hard. Lance Thomas at the three? You can’t just put in any random guy who played for a minute.
RJ might have been the worst shooting guard performance.
Point guard is a bit of a tossup too.
Dark days.
I’m gonna go with this:
Kidd
Crawford
Gallo
Melo
Chandler
I think that would be a legit pretty fun team to watch. But yeah, not much going on with this franchise in the last 20 years.
Marbury had a 57.5% TS% in 2004-05! With a 44% Assist Rate! That dude was really good on offense that year! Paired with Kidd, who could hide him on defense, and I think he’s gotta be the guy.
Then this means I also get Linsanity Jeremy Lin.
Lin
Sprewell
JR
Melo
Chandler
**I’d swap in these two:
SF – DeMarre Carroll 2015
C – Dwight Howard 2017 (move Horford to PF)**
Maybe, but that team is still as depressing as the Knicks All-21st century team.
I’m going to try to find another 5 man crew that makes N.Y. look less bad. Stay tuned.
@SF I nominate:
Knox
Hezonja
Ronnie Brewer was godawful on offense
Tracy McGrady
Anthony Randolph
James “Flight” White
Jared Jeffries
Hard to leave LT off the team tho, really can’t go wrong
PG: Chris Smith
Wizards All-21st Century Team:
PG – Arenas, 2006
SG – Beal, 2017
SF – Porter, 2018 or Butler, 2008
PF – Jamison, 2008
C- Gortat, 2015
That makes me glad I’m not a Wizardblogger.
Should probably limit it to players who got minutes.
For worst players, you could pretty much just run out the 14-15 starters.
For worst team I think you have to limit it to players who have started, because you always have a few call-ups and players who get time due to injuries. You can still be pretty bad, for example
PG Shved/DSJ
SG Afflalo
SF Knox
PF Bargnani
C Jared Jeffries
Even that doesn’t really work. Remember Larry Brown’s starting policy? 😉
Top 5 nicknames not using those whose nicknames became their oft used first name, eg., Truck Robinson
1. Ken “the Animal” Bannister
2. Kenny “Sky” Walker
3. Marvin “the Human Eraser” Webster
4.Michael “Sugar” Ray Richardson
T5. Walt “Clyde” Frazier
T5. Bill “Dollar Bill” Bradley
Alexey Shved was really good on the Knicks
My squad:
Magic
Reggie Miller
Larry Bird
Sir Charles
Pat Ewing
Hmm, swap him out for Mudiay.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615418/why-the-us-cant-go-back-to-work-by-easter/
As forgettable as Afflalo was, he wasn’t that bad. RJ is definitely having a worse year than Afflalo did. Afflalo was more like, “why bother?”
And ever started? Or started consistently?
T-Mac started 24 games for us the year we traded for him, he put up a .470 TS%. He did get some assists, but yuck.
James “Flight” White played 57 games for us and started 16. The real knock against him is he probably outplays LT.
The corpses of Baron Davis, Larry Huges, and Mike Bibby were pretty dreadful for their short tenures and both started some games, or at least played consistently.
jared jeffries was all we had for a while…man, those were some not good teams…still though – had a better record than what we’ve had lately…
i guess we’re making “progress”…
DRed, I’m sure you are right about Shved, so if Smith qualifies by starting enough, consider him the point guard. But I’m not sure he does. Mudiay was definitely worse than Shved. Did he actually start for a while?
Early Bird, Afflallo left so little impression on me I assumed he didn’t do much. I mean even if his shooting was a good percentage, did he really take many shots? I’m reluctant to put RJ because it is his rookie year, but he certainly started enough this season.
**”My first instinct was to run a team of the worst Knicks of the last 20 years out there as a joke.
You have got a very solid frontcourt in Curry and Bargs. But then it gets hard. Lance Thomas at the three? You can’t just put in any random guy who played for a minute.”**
Q Rich played pretty much the worst 2000 minutes a guy can play in 2008. He started every game he played in and put up a .444 TS% while taking up 15% of the salary cap. He’s gotta be playing the 3.
It’s really a remarkable testament to JR Smith that he could play for the best and worst knicks teams.
I still have hopes for frank and Knox but they make the team.
PG Frank
SG Francis
SF Knox
PF Thomas
C Jerome James
been looking forward to tonight’s Zion v. Mitchell showdown for months
Rookie contracts that are cheap and developing and play a bunch of minutes are less bad than expensive vets that play terribly and take up huge portions of the salary cap. Q Rich, Jeffries, Shandon Anderson, Francis, Bargnani, Curry, Randolph, Crawford… there are just so many people that played huge minutes with terrible production and got paid so many Dolandollars.
a lot of guys were worse than Shved. It almost certainly wasn’t sustainable (although he has shot the 3 fairly well in europe) but by BPM he was the best guard we’ve had who has played more than 400 minutes since 1979. He’s worse by WS/48, and the sample was tiny, but he really was excellent for those 423 minutes in 2015
He was good the year before, though!
it’s gone now, but, am I imagining things or was there really an ad on the page from Fisher Wallace for some home electro-shock “therapy” device…
is home electro shock really a thing now…
Damn, I stirred some shit up here!
I also remembered Shved being decent. Probably because DRed was saying it at the time.
Mudiay has to be the guy. Not just because he was horrible but also of all the other things he brought to the table like being a high draft pick and a shoot-first no-defense all star. He also had that high draft pick pedigree. Overall a very Knicksy choice.
Knox has to be some recency bias but with the way he has been force-fed minutes for two years and has been completely awful I have to say, I like him at the three.
Jerome James is an interesting addition. For me, just wasn’t enough of a regular for long enough to bump Curry and the franchise destroying trade that brought him here off the top spot. Eddy had a 12% rebound rate, an 18% tov rate, and played the worst defense I have ever seen.
If you played Curry with Bargs though-think about the synergy
I’d let that slide for the likes of Mardy Collins and Andy Rautins but we’re talking about two top ten picks who have been among the worst 1% of players in the league. Wasting a #8 pick is as bad as wasting money.
Does anyone remember how bad Tractor Traylor (RIP) was in 2005-2006? I didn’t, but holy shit he was terrible and Larry Brown somehow gave him 1200 minutes. What an awful team
There was a Michael Sweetney moment too before he Twinkied himself.
Also, I bought the Serious Eats cookbook which someone recommended here and I have …. taken off the plastic wrapping. Looks good on the shelf though. Looks very KBloggerish. Waiting for my kids to be old enough so that I have enough energy to tackle it. So, basically, five years and I will be ready.
Don’t forget about Michael Doleac’s Knick career:
121 games; .463 TS%; -3.7 BPM; -.07 VORP.
Bad enough to earn a spot?
Mo Taylor was horrible too. Across the board terrible. And made almost 20% of them the cap. Bad.
Does anyone remember how bad Tractor Traylor (RIP) was in 2005-2006? I didn’t, but holy shit he was terrible and Larry Brown somehow gave him 1200 minutes. What an awful team
Do you mean Maurice Taylor? Yeah, he was garbage. I just looked him up on Basketball Reference and there was a banner ad for Depends adult diapers. In big letters the ad read “Ridiculously Soft”. Maybe the best coincidence ever.
What about the all-disappointing team…vs. “realistic” hopes/expectations? Here’s mine:
PG: Jeremy Lin…from Linsanity to oblivion in a couple of months; HM: Kidd: literally died in front of our eyes
SG: Houston…injured and never the same right after his mega-max deal; HM: Shump; showed flashes early on but never really developed and ACL pretty much killed any hope of him being a star
SF: Q: he was never anything close t what he was in PHX. HM: Melo…even those who felt he was woefully overrated hoped that the right players around him could max out his value
PF: Amare: first 1/2 season was one of my fave times of the last 20 years, then poof, it was gone. HM: Porzingis: damn, I loved him…and the worst is yet to come…
C: Chandler…for all the love he got here and DPOY season, the bitchslapping he took from Roy Hibbert is an all-time low for me as a fan. HM: Curry: despite the horrible trade, there was at least some hope that he would develop into a decent player. Never happened.
What about the all-disappointing team…vs. “realistic” hopes/expectations? Here’s mine:
McDyess has to be on that squad…
McDyess is an excellent candidate, especially after we had to watch him play well later in his career.
Rolando Blackman was always a disappointment to me…I thought he looked great in Dallas and then he turned into mediocre as a Knick…same with Vandeweghe…
I’m still thinking post-year 2000
oops
I was looking for the biggest stiff ever on wikpedia…and the list got to long..so many horrible players…but saw this guy:
Cezary Trybankski- 2003-04…played 5 minutes and scored 1 point…I have no recollection of that dude…
On a more contemporary note, there’s this:
https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/reggie-bullock-overcame-tragedy-to-become-key-knicks-veteran/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
I’m in favor of picking up this option. It’s only $3.2 million more than the $1m dead cap hit if we don’t pick it up, and he might have at least modest trade value since he seems fully recovered from neck surgery. (This opinion is contingent upon the assumption that we can trade him at any point after picking up his option.)
jimmer fredette…5 MP…7pts…he was a freakin machine…
Okay, this isn’t really a complaint, per se, just an observation…
So, the prevailing wisdom is to wash your hands, pretty much after and during each and every breath…wise advice and completely necessary, not just now, but, all the time…
What nobody tells you though is what effect spending 10 or so minutes a day scrubbing your hands with hot water and soap will have on your skin…
Oh my god, the back of my hands feel like newspaper, that got wet, then stuck in the sun, then wet again, back in the sun, wet again, back in the sun, and again and again and again…
psa for you all: lotion, lots and lots of lotion…generally i’m not usually a big lotion guy (i’m more of dry rub type traditionally)…i’m learning though…
how about soap with the lotion baked in to it?
for those folks out there doing the single parent thing – I commend you…you have my utmost respect…one of the tougher weeks I’ve experienced in while…it’ll take me a bit longer to get the hang of this…in the past I’ve done mostly weekend and summer vacation parenting…which, is probably a lot like grandparent parenting: love them to death and spoil them a bit – then send them back on home…
so, finally got the online school stuff going – I had to set like 10 different bookmark sites cuz the assignments are everywhere…and, you know what: teaching ain’t easy, not by a long shot…dang it’s hard to explain stuff again and again and in a way an 8 year old can relate…
and patience is a must…which is a challenge for me…I’m learning…slowly…
oh yeah, and now my god daughter’s boyfriend is over visiting…nice kid, very respectful, good dad – still, that’s just a whole ‘nother level of madness i’m having a hard time coming to terms with…
I’ll tell ya though, my big takeaway from the week – parenting reminds me a lot of going in to business with paulie and having him as a partner …
not feeling so well – fuck you. feed me…want a moment to yourself – fuck you. pay attention to me…just got home from work and you’re tired – fuck you. play with me…
it’s the hot water and scrubbing, than rubbing dry…took me a minute to figure out what the hell was happening…
i have nice hands and they’re a bit delicate…i just wanna soak em in lotion now…
i’m starting to run out of room with all the shit i gotta carry around with me: mask, gloves, sanitizer, and – lotion…
my wife has kind of wonder cream that if you put on at night and then put some gloves on …you wake up in the morning all restored…I will go find out the name for you..
aww pepper, that’s nice of you sir…i’m okay – i just didn’t notice what was happening until i was using those crappy, rough ass paper towels at work…i’m on it now…
god daughter is chilling with bf downstairs, god son is in his room yelling and screaming with his friends on fortnite, and – i’m about to “check the mail”/grab a smoke outside…hmmm, maybe time for one of those tecates sitting in the fridge…
**”Does anyone remember how bad Tractor Traylor (RIP) was in 2005-2006? I didn’t, but holy shit he was terrible and Larry Brown somehow gave him 1200 minutes… Do you mean Maurice Taylor?”**
Tractor Traylor’s claim to fame as a Knick was injuring Danilo Gallinari in game #1 of summer league.
Mo Taylor’s claim to fame as a Knick was getting to start against the Pistons because he was born in Detroit.
Not sure which is a lamer claim to fame. At least Tractor Traylor proved he wasn’t as ridiculously soft as adult diapers, so there’s that.
And Tractor Traylor’s (RIP) claim to fame as an NBA player is that he was traded with another pick that was then flipped on draft night for Steve Nash for Dirk Nowitzki.
Dang.
Robert “Tractor” Traylor was, in fact, traded straight up for Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash.
Dang.
Speaking of Bargs Defense
I remember myself pretty optimistic that Bargnani would turn into DIrk on the Knicks.
Also that Baron Davis would play like Harden before Harden.
Fkn optimist delusions…
By the way, Dirk is an all-time great, no doubt about it. Just wondering, though, was Dirk someone that was going to be an all-time great no matter what team drafted him? Let’s say he had stuck in Milwaukee. Was he just destined to be an all-time great? Remember how much Dirk struggled as a rookie. I just wonder if a shittier coach would have perhaps fucked him up or if he was always bound to become a superstar.
EDITED TO ADD: I forgot that Karl took over that year in Milwaukee. Karl’s a pretty good coach, so you’d hope that he would have done right by Dirk. But what if, say, Chris Ford was his coach?
Incidentally, this is how I feel about Tom Brady, the alleged GOAT.
But I don’t see much evidence of Dallas being a superstar producing franchise. If Porzingis turns into an all time great, I’ll revise my thinking. But Dirk strikes me as self made.
Don Nelson was a pretty outstanding offensive coach. Remember, while Nash still had value after his second season, he wasn’t that well thought of before Nelson got a hold of him. Even there, he took a year before everything clicked. I remember Knick fans thinking that they could pry Nash out of Dallas after his first season there.
I don’t think any all-time greats are “made”. What separates Dirk from Bargs is what’s between the ears.
Just found out that my long anticipated April golf trip with my son to Hilton Head SC is off, as all visitors from NY must quarantine for 14 days under penalty of law. Well at least we can watch the Masters together….oh wait!
The last episode of my TV show got scrapped and a high-paying recording session I was supposed to do at Village Recorders in April is probably also not happening, so I’m out five figures already. My lungs still work though so I’ll take it.
Haven’t seen Strat around here in days and I’m a little worried. Strat, you okay? Anybody know him in real life?
Just hop up to Portland and I’ll pay you $40 and all the homemade pizza you can eat to help me with my latest D dream pop experiment. I’ll wear a respirator the whole time. You can use any of my vast array of two amps.
Just wondering, though, was Dirk someone that was going to be an all-time great no matter what team drafted him?
i think it’s close to 100 pct yes. dirk’s rookie year wasn’t nearly as bad as it looked. it came in the lockout shortened season of 98-99. he had a terrible first month (february) when he shot 31pct from the field, but was already playing substantially better by april. he was a good player by yr 2. in general i think nba coaches barely matter when it comes to all timers becoming all timers.
I think the real question is whether Damyean Dotson would be a superstar by now if he was drafted by any other team.
well…it’s saturday…
Credit where it’s due: “Damyean Dotson is the best player on the Knicks” is a helluva shtick if you’re going to come here just to troll. Not quite “Clyde Frazier’s announcing is the course of all of the Knicks’ problems” level, but in a tier just below I would say.
Anyway, I’ve said this before about Dotson but I think a lot of Knicks fans have a bit of an inflated sense of his abilities because the dude is pretty great at looking the part. Seriously, he could win an Oscar playing a super solid 3-and-D Norman Powell-type. Every time I check his stats after watching him play, I come away surprised because they are so, so pedestrian.
I don’t much care what they do with the 25 year old with the .527 TS% and unremarkable nonscoring numbers. Keep him if it’s cheap, I guess.
Also, the regular season is probably done and, shocker, we seem to have really done ourselves in draft position wise. I’m aware that the differences are much smaller than they used to be, but they still exist, and the 5-to-6 drop off is particularly brutal when it comes to odds. There’s a 50.4% chance we’ll be picking 7th or 8th (and a 3.8% chance we’ll be picking 9th or 10th), so without some serious lottery luck we can probably kiss LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes goodbye. Too bad.
If Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton are off the board when we’re picking, we should really punt on a point guard this year (or try to find a gem with one of our later picks, I kind of like Kira Lewis Jr.) and take Okongwu. We won’t do that, though, because Cole Anthony will still probably be on the board.
TNFH, I felt roughly the same as you but when I thought about those stats, I found myself liking him more. A 0.527 TS% probably puts Dotson in the normal range for a bench player. As bench players go, he’s cheap and young. Someone is going to want him. Compare him to Langston Galloway. If you compare Dotson this year, his third year in the NBA, with Galloway’s third year, their stats are pretty comparable. It’s the 25 years old season for both of them, so this seems pretty fair to me. He’s probably worth five million a year or so (what Galloway makes) to some team but he makes a little over a million dollars at the moment. If we can resign him to something like we signed Trier for, that’s a good deal for us and we should have an asset we can play or trade.
Or compare his current season to Reggie Bullick’s current season. Dotson’s stats are better and he’s 25 whereas Bullock is 28. Bullock is a headier player and probably a better defender, but is apparently a steal at a three million plus salary. Dotson is certainly worth something. It’s jus a question how much and what are the alternatives.
Thing is, if it’s Dotson vs. Bullock, you have to factor in Bullock’s $1 dead cap hit. I like Dot but he’s probably a dime a dozen and Bullock will be better at a minimally higher salary. I’m good either way, or if we keep both, or let both go.
If the NBA doesn’t expand, and the number of viable draft picks and UDFAs exceeds the number of retirements, then more and more good young players are gonna shake loose. Pretty much every team has a Dotson or Trier that will be on the chopping block, as well as vet’s minimum guys who can play those roles just fine on the cheap. I would have liked to have seen Trier get more time, but it’s hare dto get too attached to these fringe rotation players.
Maybe we can lure Ron Baker back from Russia…
That’s a good point. At Bullock and Dotson’s level there are probably alternatives, especially in a year where the cap is likely to be down and the Knicks are one of the few teams with cap space. So it’s a question of dollars and available alternatives.
I was reading the NYPost and saw this. I was at this game and left with my guts ripped out. Hard to believe that was 25 years ago today.
I wish I’d been there, even though I would have felt the same as you
Yeah, we just saw that this offseason, where there was a multitude of decent players without gigs. They really should just expand. I mean, once they’re back on more solid footing post-virus (actually, that’d be an interesting way to get some new money to some of these teams – with franchise fees).
The year there is really going to be a crunch is when they get rid of one and done. Then more second round picks will make teams putting pressure on veterans.
We were talking about movie scores recently. I don’t know if I’d enjoy it independently of the action but I’m watching There Will Be Blood on Netflix and it’s a pretty damn good score.
Are you watching it, like, right now? But like, while texting? That might be morally worse than texting and driving. A school bus. While drunk.
Just watched The Favorite. Goddamn, all three ladies deserved Oscars.
Bullock might never come back from injury, but he’s been a league averagish player for a few seasons and that’s why people think he’s more valuable than Dotson.
Finally, some good news:
https://twitter.com/SIChrisMannix/status/1244083645427531777?s=19
The league would stop a fever crazed Dolan from bringing back Isaiah right?
Just saw Big Baby Davis as a judge on Iron Chef…what is this world coming to?
That’s some news.
Literally my first thought was “how will Dolan’s Razor get us this time. ” Isiaah has to be the top choice.
Dolan’s got the Covid! I think that deserves a new thread.
I did ponder the thought of Dolan devolving into a COVID-19 mortality stat for a fleeting moment, but naah, had to reel it in.
Cuz we didn’t have enough moral dilemmas.
I would never wish harm on the man but he is at the back of my ventilator line.
That’s a good way of putting it.
Answers to trivia quiz:
1) #5 (27 players, hopefully it will be 28 soon)
2) #27 and #29
3) #24 Bill Bradley (maybe the least deserving retired number based on career stats, only one all-star appearance, and very few players will have that number in the near future due to Kobe tragedy, DAL retired it already)
4) #00 Enes Kanter, #28 Andrew Lang; #36 Rasheed Wallace; #46 Dennis Bell; 49 Shandon Anderson; #67 Taj Gibson; #77 Andrea Bargnani; #85 Baron Davis; #91 Mindaugas Kuzminskas