Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 24, 2014

A Rebuttal: Why the Andrea Bargnani Trade is a Great Move for the Knicks

Tooday tha Nicks made anudder grate trade that is tha neckst step in bringeing a champeenships to New York wich has not had a chanpeeyon sinse tha…I dunno it was a long tyme ago like when peepul lissened to disko and woar bellbottoms and stuff. I seen fotos of that. They had hare like Shump but round hahahahaha and the cloths and disko suckkkkkkkks.

But tooday they trayded Novack and Cambee who were scrubs for Andre Barnya…Barneeya…Barnnanarno…I cant speel it cause he is Italyan but he is grate. He was a first rownd draft pick and the first player taken in tha first rounde which means that yeer he was the best prospeckt in all of collidge basketball exksept he was Italyun so that meens he wuz better than all the colege players in the US. So that meens hes rilly good.

And they got him for skrubs! Novak used to be gud wen he cud diskownt duble chek but last year he didnt. I dunno why but probably becaus he is a skrub. And Cambee was awesum in tha ninetees but it aint the ninetys no more caws he cud barely play and didunt pley aganst indyana or bostun or anybudee in tha playoffs.

So we gave the dum canadiyans too skrubs for a player and did I tell yoo that Baryarknee is sevun feet tall! SEVAN FEET. Thats as tall as Chandlr and he can shoot three poynters! He will playe grate with Mellow at small forwurd where Mello shud have been playeing all a long not at powur forwerd like some smallballs thing that nevr works in the playofs where you need to go big or go hom just liek tha ad campayne sez. And they cudnt say that if it waznt troo becawse that wud be a vyeolashun of the law aganst lyeing on tha teevee. So now they can go big with Carmellow and Chandla and Bargninni. And that meens we have size!!!!

Also I forgot to tell you that this meens no more too poynt gard lineups. THAT IZ AWESUM. Everybody nows that yoo have a poynt gard and a shooteing gard and a smal forwerd and a pouwer forwerd an a centir. If you play too poynt guards thats so Raven. I meen dum! HAHAHAHHAHAHA did yoo get my joke? I sed thats so ravin like that teevee show. I forgit what it waz called. But it had Ravin somewhere in tha titul.

So yea. Where waz I. I forgot. I was so happi abowt this trade that I forgit why. I forgit a lot of stuff sometimez. Maibe its because I ate thos paynt chips a lot all the time wen I was a kidd. NOT JAYSON KIDD HAHAHAHAH. He coche the Nets now but whatever I thot he was a halloffamer but now hes just anudder skrub in brooklin. Screw brooklin thats not noo yark. Noo yark is noo yark everybuddy noes that.

So where was I oh yah I ate painte chips when I was a kid they were falling off the radiyator neer my bed and I thot they were kandy. I gess I didn’t listen to that song they played during comershuls when I was a kid. Yoo remember that. ITS THIS I FOUNDED IT>

So rite. We got barnarnarnani so we now what that means CHAMPEEENSHIPS $ THA KNIX.

They did give up sum picks and pix are nice for gettin yong players but yoo don’t need yong playrs when yoo are gonna win a champeenship and theyre in the future enayways and will be late in the first rownd so what who cares nobuddy good gets drafted in tha late ferst round except for like tonee parker and Rayjohn Rondow and and Dayvid Lee and Tie Lauson and some udder guys but I forget who cause I eat paynte chips wen I was a kidd. Did I ever tell you about that. It’s funny I ate them when I was a kid so now I ferget things. Ok that’s not that funny but who cares becawse champeenship FOR THE KNICKS.

PEE-ESS: SCREW YOO JIM CAYEVAN AND ALL THA HATERZ

115 comments on “A Rebuttal: Why the Andrea Bargnani Trade is a Great Move for the Knicks

  1. Loathing

    Man, that’s just too hard to read…I can’t imagine how much time you spent typing that in!

  2. chrisk06811

    Robert’s right……we ripped off the Canadians AGAIN…..just like with Manhattan!!!

  3. danvt

    Robert Silverman: Hey, guess what. Now they might have to include Prigs in the deal. Perfect.

    I did stop watching the Yanks this year for the most part. I didn’t get MLB League Pass so I only get National games and when they play the Red Sox. I actually got more interested when Tex, Arod, Granderson went down. I hated the low obps on those guys. I hated how they couldn’t move runners along. I just figured enough was enough. I’m not paying those idiots salaries until they start showing me their serious about winning. This might be it for me and NYK. I mean I just wrote a post today about the Novak’s fine +/-. He’s a guy who seeming didn’t do a lot but really helped the team. He’s leaving for a guy who does the opposite. Plus the draft picks, oy! If this costs us another unsung hero in Prigs, I really may be done, and I have proven to myself I can be.

  4. Brian Cronin

    Camby has a statement on the trade.

    “It’s unfortunate that I wasn’t given a meaningful opportunity to contribute last season in New York. I was really looking forward to the upcoming year as a chance to show the organization what they missed out on last year, and pushing our team towards the Finals.

    “I have nothing but positive things to say about the city of Toronto and its great fans, having been drafted by the Raptors 17 years ago. Given that my goal at this point in my career is to have a shot at a championship, however, I’ll have to evaluate my options going forward. I’ve enjoyed a great career, and under the right circumstances I hope to continue making an impact in the league.”

    Yikes. Somebody’s not a happy camper.

  5. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: You’d also recommend that GMs not look at shooting efficiency or rebounding rates.

    nah, I never said that, don’t put words in my mouth. I recommend that GMs take in as much info as they can before making decisions.

  6. jon abbey

    Camby’s treatment in NY last year was always pretty odd from the outside, as it seemed like he could contribute on the rare occasions he was healthy and given a chance.

  7. ruruland

    This is typically Robert’s reaction to losing streaks or any trade or move that isn’t clearly a mark in the Knicks side of the ledger.

    I don’t think it justifies reducing the opposing view to that of a parasitical Dolan dingbat.

  8. danvt

    ruruland: Q or Barron is the outgoing vet min, according to Stein.

    If it costs us Barron, I’m definitely done! Kidding. OK I’m off the ledge as long as this doesn’t cost us Prigioni. (I would rather it be Q). Hey where did you read that last bit anyway?

    Also, any news about Barfnani’s health. I mean, will he suit up? The one thing I’ll say about him is that I’ve never liked facing him. He is capable of good games, no? If he can run maybe he can help in a reserve role. If he’s a revelation then maybe he’s worth the assets surrendered. I mean, I have to keep my optimism right?

  9. JK47

    So far this offseason has been about as uplifting as a funeral in a thunderstorm. Tim Hardaway Jr., CJ Leslie and Andrea Bargnani, with Aaron Brooks rumored to also be waiting in the wings. Hoo boy.

  10. Brian Cronin

    Camby’s treatment in NY last year was always pretty odd from the outside, as it seemed like he could contribute on the rare occasions he was healthy and given a chance.

    Woody seemed to hate him from the word “go.” Which is kind of weird, though, right? Shouldn’t Grunny have cleared it with his coach before spending all that stuff on getting Camby? Or was Woody okay with Camby until Camby showed up in camp?

  11. ruruland

    danvt:
    ruruland: Q or Barron is the outgoing vet min, according to Stein.

    If it costs us Barron, I’m definitely done!Kidding.OK I’m off the ledge as long as this doesn’t cost us Prigioni.(I would rather it be Q).Hey where did you read that last bit anyway?

    Also, any news about Barfnani’s health.I mean, will he suit up?The one thing I’ll say about him is that I’ve never liked facing him.He is capable of good games, no?If he can run maybe he can help in a reserve role.If he’s a revelation then maybe he’s worth the assets surrendered.I mean, I have to keep my optimism right?

    Stein. No way they are going to give up Prigs or Copeland outright.

  12. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: Woody seemed to hate him from the word “go.” Which is kind of weird, though, right? Shouldn’t Grunny have cleared it with his coach before spending all that stuff on getting Camby? Or was Woody okay with Camby until Camby showed up in camp?

    I think they though Woody would be able to work Camby’s unique skillsets in on both ends of the court.

    But he’s not a pick and roll player and is a total roamer on defense. Just as GK did before him, Woody would have likely have to create his own set of defensive rules for Camby.

    I don’t think, at 10-15 minutes a game and the with the injury issues, he could justify doing that.

    Camby’s lack of defensive discipline would have further discombobulated rotations, even if Camby cleans some of it. I thought he’d work quite well with Chandler, but that’s an offense-is-optional approach.

    I also don’t think Woody was set on making 4-out the staple of the offense.

  13. massive

    Grunwald must be thinking if he sucks, he won’t take anybody’s minutes, and if he’s good, there’s a chance he’s better than every other option we have at power forward. On court, this is a no risk operation. Same with the salary cap. But the 1st rounder is inexcusable. You don’t just give up a first rounder for something that might work. If the Knicks are confident that it will work, then they better be right. I’m sick of over paying for Felton level players.

  14. ruruland

    massive:
    Grunwald must be thinking if he sucks, he won’t take anybody’s minutes, and if he’s good, there’s a chance he’s better than every other option we have at power forward. On court, this is a no risk operation. Same with the salary cap. But the 1st rounder is inexcusable. You don’t just give up a first rounder for something that might work. If the Knicks are confident that it will work, then they better be right. I’m sick of over paying for Felton level players.

    Let me ask everyone this: Do you think there was a way to clear Novak’s contract w/out assuming a liability or risking the chance at a future asset?

  15. Brian Cronin

    Grunwald must be thinking if he sucks, he won’t take anybody’s minutes, and if he’s good, there’s a chance he’s better than every other option we have at power forward. On court, this is a no risk operation. Same with the salary cap. But the 1st rounder is inexcusable. You don’t just give up a first rounder for something that might work. If the Knicks are confident that it will work, then they better be right. I’m sick of over paying for Felton level players.

    Yeah, it is not even that the trade is the worst or whatever. It is just a plain ol’ ordinary bad trade. Not an awful trade, but a bad one. Bargs could surrpise and become good, but that’s not a likely result and likely results are all you have to work with when you make trades.

  16. Z-man

    Not surprising that a trade involving consensus all-time great Novak, the only Knick EVER worthy of a Silvermanian portrait, would precipitate a post such as this.

  17. JK47

    GHenman:
    Anybody know who’s in the 2015 free agent class?

    There aren’t really names I’m completely salivating over. It’s heavy on big men– Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan, Brook Lopez. For forwards there’s Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge. It’s a very thin class at guard– Rajon Rondo and Eric Gordon being the two big names.

  18. ruruland

    GHenman:
    Anybody know who’s in the 2015 free agent class?

    I was just going to get to that. Clearing out that $4 million could be the difference between 2 impact players and three.

    Rondo, Lin (derp), Dragic, Danny Green, Gordon, Kevin Love, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, Omar Asik, Roy Hibbert.

    How good would a Rondo, Shumpert, Melo, Love, Hibbert team be?

    I’ve put my reputation behind the assertion that Melo is going to take a cut to make that kind of team happen in two years.

  19. Z-man

    What this trade essentially hinges on is whether Bargnani will be better than the 2016 first round pick, likely to be around #20 of that draft. The salary was already tied up in two horrendous contracts, in fact, his contracgt expires earlier.

  20. Robert Silverman Post author

    ruruland: I was just going to get to that. Clearing out that $4 million could be the difference between 2 impact players and three.

    Rondo, Lin (derp), Dragic, Danny Green, Gordon, Kevin Love, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, Omar Asik, Roy Hibbert.

    How good would a Rondo, Shumpert, Melo, Love, Hibbert team be?

    I’ve put my reputation behind the assertion that Melo is going to take a cut to make that kind of team happen in two years.

    What makes you think Melo won’t opt out next season for a max extension?

  21. massive

    Well if we’re already considering the reset, that sorta shows the faith the Knicks have in this bunch, you know? In terms of cap cleaning, this was a good move. I’m okay with that. I don’t hate the trade at all. The more I think about it, the more I believe Bargs will have a good year in New York due to a drastic role change and lesser responsibility. The only thing that sucks is that he will need to defend and rebound to be good, and those are things he probably believes he’s above. I’m not okay with that. Bargs has all star potential if he does the little things, but why the hell am I talking about the potential of a 28 year old? That’s what kills me about this team. I have to ignore the past and hope that the player will change his stripes and suddenly get the picture.

    ruruland: Let me ask everyone this: Do you think there was a way to clear Novak’s contract w/out assuming a liability or risking the chance at a future asset?

  22. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: Yeah, it is not even that the trade is the worst or whatever. It is just a plain ol’ ordinary bad trade. Not an awful trade, but a bad one. Bargs could surrpise and become good, but that’s not a likely result and likely results are all you have to work with when you make trades.

    I somewhat disagree.

    If your ultimate vision is to primarily reset the core of the team in two years through free agency and then find holes in the market and fill your team with above-salary-value spare parts and role players, and no one can argue GG and MW haven’t been excellent in that regard, then basically you are saying the next two years you’re going to sort of shoot for short-term upside guys without doing anything to interfere with 2015 payrolls.

    In such an instance, given that Novak has proven to be a playoff liability and Camby a terrible fit, you value the possibility of higher upside over the likelihood of an even or perhaps losing trade.

  23. mokers

    The Blazers picked up Robinson for Papanikolau, another Euro and two second round draft picks. Maybe we can send them Bargnani (isn’t it awesome that it gets autocorrected to Barfnani) for those draft picks and Papa when they don’t sign Howard.

    Hope!

  24. Frank

    Basically Grunwald just deleted two mistakes he made last offseason (4 year deal for Novak and the whole Camby trade) but at a cost of every 2nd round pick for the next 5 years, Papanikolaou, and a 1st round pick in 2016. That’s a hefty price to pay. I’ve been one of GG’s biggest supporters but that’s pretty awful.

  25. GHenman

    ruruland: I was just going to get to that. Clearing out that $4 million could be the difference between 2 impact players and three. Rondo, Lin (derp), Dragic, Danny Green, Gordon, Kevin Love, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, Omar Asik, Roy Hibbert. How good would a Rondo, Shumpert, Melo, Love, Hibbert team be? I’ve put my reputation behind the assertion that Melo is going to take a cut to make that kind of team happen in two years.

    It’ll be interesting to see who we can sign, but I think a big part of this deal is Dolan demanding Grunwald do something in light of what Brooklyn just did.

  26. JK47

    Being a Knicks fan is essentially waiting for bad salaries to come off the books.

    It’s a lot like being a Mets fan, trust me.

  27. massive

    In other news, the Rockets might S&T Jeremy Lin to Detroit.

    For Jose Calderon. They are seriously about to kick everyone’s ass this off-season.

  28. ruruland

    Robert Silverman: What makes you think Melo won’t opt out next season for a max extension?

    Well, whispers, Robert, going back to before the first playoff series vs Boston. The same things he learned about the Denver situation and the Bearup mess and SK not wanting to really push forward and go over the tax line when the organization had a chance. I think that was one of the primary motivators to wanting to leave in the first place.

    He wanted an owner to spend freely to make it happen. He also wanted to get paid. And I think he thought he and Amar’e would work much better than it would, and that the outgoing pieces from Ny weren’t that important. Hubris is a strength and weakness.

    But I’ve laid the case here before; I think he has everything he wants in life but a ring and the chance at immortality in NY. I think he sees 2015 as the beginning of truly building his legacy. Boilerplate, whatever, most of these guys play for the same thing.

    Melo is unique in that his legacy can really go either way, and I don’t think he has the same kind of happiness in life if he doesn’t finish what he set out to do or bring home a championship (at least come really close) in NYC.

    I think there are widespread misconceptions about his awareness about place in the league. I think it’s actually been a self-consuming part of his psyche, trying to live up to Lebron, and Wade, it’s eaten him up in the past.

    I think every year that goes by where he doesn’t build on his post-season resume is one that sticks to the very core of his identity, eats at him more and more.

    He plays it off so well, so non-nonchalant about it, the whole smiling and vapid laugh, but ask any media member who takes postseason defeats harder than Melo.

    As if he doesn’t grasp what he’s playing for.

  29. ruruland

    Frank:
    Basically Grunwald just deleted two mistakes he made last offseason (4 year deal for Novak and the whole Camby trade) but at a cost of every 2nd round pick for the next 5 years, Papanikolaou, and a 1st round pick in 2016. That’s a hefty price to pay. I’ve been one of GG’s biggest supporters but that’s pretty awful.

    Seeing that angle is the best take yet, IMO.

  30. ruruland

    massive:
    Well if we’re already considering the reset, that sorta shows the faith the Knicks have in this bunch, you know? In terms of cap cleaning, this was a good move. I’m okay with that. I don’t hate the trade at all. The more I think about it, the more I believe Bargs will have a good year in New York due to a drastic role change and lesser responsibility. The only thing that sucks is that he will need to defend and rebound to be good, and those are things he probably believes he’s above. I’m not okay with that. Bargs has all star potential if he does the little things, but why the hell am I talking about the potential of a 28 year old? That’s what kills me about this team. I have to ignore the past and hope that the player will change his stripes and suddenly get the picture.

    Unfortunately, when the Knicks are as constrained as they are, that is basically the best hope they have of pushing the team up a level.

    Purely from a skills and talent pov, the Knicks can’t get guys who are proven high level producers. They have to swing big in a pitcher’s count.

    There is no other way the Knicks could have gotten a player of AB’s skills w/out giving up Shump, Melo or Chandler, and that’s robbing Peter to pay Paul.

  31. Robert Silverman Post author

    ruruland: Well, whispers, Robert, going back to before the first playoff series vs Boston. The same things he learned about the Denver situation and the Bearup mess and SK not wanting to really push forward and go over the tax line when the organization had a chance. I think that was one of the primary motivators to wanting to leave in the first place.

    He wanted an owner to spend freely to make it happen. He also wanted to get paid. And I think he thought he and Amar’e would work much better than it would, and that the outgoing pieces from Ny weren’t that important. Hubris is a strength and weakness.

    But I’ve laid the case here before; I think he has everything he wants in life but a ring and the chance at immortality in NY.I think he sees 2015 as the beginning of truly building his legacy. Boilerplate, whatever, most of these guys play for the same thing.

    Melo is unique in that his legacy can really go either way, and I don’t think he has the same kind of happiness in life if he doesn’t finish what he set out to do or bring home a championship (at least come really close) in NYC.

    I think there are widespread misconceptions about his awareness about place in the league. I think it’s actually been a self-consuming part of his psyche, trying to live up to Lebron, and Wade, it’s eaten him up in the past.

    You clearly know Melo far better than I do, but there aren’t many players who would wait a year for what promises to be one of his last (if not his last) big paycheck. That’s not a condemnation of Melo, just a fact that players usually go for the $ (and they should). It would be pretty selfless of him to risk a big injury and end up with 10′s of millions less. Just ask Kobe.

  32. EB

    ruruland: There is no other way the Knicks could have gotten a player of AB’s skills w/out giving up Shump, Melo or Chandler, and that’s robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    What skills would those be?!? There is absolutely no way that even YOU can spin this into being a good thing.

  33. massive

    Kobe did it to himself, though. He put himself in the game when MDA wanted to rest him and ended up playing 45+ minutes a night in the games leading up to his injury. And he’s still getting paid $30 million anyway.

    Point understood, I just hate me some Kobe fans.

    Robert Silverman: It would be pretty selfless of him to risk a big injury and end up with 10?s of millions less. Just ask Kobe.

  34. ruruland

    Robert Silverman: You clearly know Melo far better than I do, but there aren’t many players who would wait a year for what promises to be one of his last (if not his last) big paycheck. That’s not a condemnation of Melo, just a fact that players usually go for the $ (and they should). It would be pretty selfless of him to risk a big injury and end up with 10?s of millions less. Just ask Kobe.

    Right, but there are many differences. For one, Kobe already had four rings before he signed his second max.

    Two, when Kobe signed his second, the championship core around him was already set.

    Thirdly, Melo is better positioned financially in the long run than Bryant was, he’s a much better business man.

  35. JK47

    EB: What skills would those be?!? There is absolutely no way that even YOU can spin this into being a good thing.

    Yeah, the Knicks did not trade for Bargnani because of his “skills.” They traded for him because his terrible contract runs shorter than the terrible contracts of Novak and Camby, and they gave up multiple draft picks including a first to make this happen. Classic Knick move– give up future assets to paper over your mistakes, thus ensuring the cycle of failure continues into the indefinite future.

  36. JK47

    Only the Knicks could put themselves in a situation where they had to give up assets to land a dud like Andrea Bargnani, and for the whole thing to actually make some sort of perverted sense.

  37. ruruland

    Robert Silverman: You clearly know Melo far better than I do, but there aren’t many players who would wait a year for what promises to be one of his last (if not his last) big paycheck. That’s not a condemnation of Melo, just a fact that players usually go for the $ (and they should). It would be pretty selfless of him to risk a big injury and end up with 10?s of millions less. Just ask Kobe.

    misread your post the first time. I understand the conventional argument.

    We can only find out.

  38. er

    JK47: Yeah, the Knicks did not trade for Bargnani because of his “skills.”They traded for him because his terrible contract runs shorter than the terrible contracts of Novak and Camby, and they gave up multiple draft picks including a first to make this happen.Classic Knick move– give up future assets to paper over your mistakes, thus ensuring the cycle of failure continues into the indefinite future.

    What future assets? 2016 pick which would be a middling pick aka not a core championship piece. And 2 late twos? Look i get it, but i think this is being blown way outta proportion. The Knicks will have plenty of money to play with in 15′ and who knows what will happen to the assets we have now. Namely Shump, Hardaway and Lesile. They could grow into something special. Also we can get back into the second round easily so …..

  39. Bruno Almeida

    EB: would

    his only skills might be the incredible feat of being a 7-footer in the league and averaging 4.8 rebounds per game in his entire career, while being quite possibly the worst defensive big in the NBA.

    this is mind-numbing, really… the Knicks were 3rd in offensive efficiency and 18th in def. efficiency last year, so what do you do?you trade for pretty much the only guy who’s worse than STAT on D, and you give up a 1st rounder in the process.

    brilliant!

    and all this crap about wanting to get rid of Novak’s contract for 2015? come on, that makes no sense at all, in 2015 Novak would have an expiring contract of 3.8 million a year… wouldn’t the Knicks be able to move a 42% 3pt shooter on such a friendly contract?

    this is depressing.

  40. ruruland

    JK47: Yeah, the Knicks did not trade for Bargnani because of his “skills.”They traded for him because his terrible contract runs shorter than the terrible contracts of Novak and Camby, and they gave up multiple draft picks including a first to make this happen.Classic Knick move– give up future assets to paper over your mistakes, thus ensuring the cycle of failure continues into the indefinite future.

    To pretend Bargnani is void of high-level skills for a guy his size disqualifies you from making intelligent commentary on the trade.

  41. massive

    EB: What skills would those be?!? There is absolutely no way that even YOU can spin this into being a good thing.

    He has 3 point range. He can hit an open jumper. He has shotblocking ability. He has the ability to put the ball on the floor. He can finish with either hand around the rim. He’s faster than 90% of the players who guard him. He definitely does have talent.

    He’s just never been able to put it together nor has he ever really cared to. That’s why he’s hated by Toronto. He sucks because he has never been productive enough to contribute positively to wins despite all of his ability. It’s not like he’s just a talentless scrub. He’s a horribly talented basketball player who sucks.

  42. Robert Silverman Post author

    ruruland: Right, but there are many differences. For one, Kobe already had four rings before he signed his second max.

    Two, when Kobe signed his second, the championship core around him was already set.

    Thirdly, Melo is better positioned financially in the long run than Bryant was, he’s a much better business man.

    I just meant that an injury could come at any time, even for a player of legendary durability like Kobe. It’s very, very rare that players leave $ on the table or risk a payday when they don’t have to — even if it’s to the detriment of the team. Of course, Melo might do just that (and again, you know him far better than I do), but it would be the exception, not the rule, if he didn’t opt out next summer.

  43. massive

    “The Knicks tried to obtain Bargnani last year by offering Stoudemire to the Raptors in an exchange of unwanted contracts. A potential deal along those lines was vetoed by the Knicks’ owner, James L. Dolan”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/sports/basketball/knicks-are-said-to-be-favorites-to-acquire-raptors-bargnani.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2&

    So we’ve had a thing for Bargs for a while now? They must know something I don’t. Now the giving up of a first makes sense. The Knicks’ brass must really like Bargs. I just want to know what they see in him. Grunwald better give us some answers when this happens.

  44. JK47

    ruruland: To pretend Bargnani is void of high-level skills for a guy his size disqualifies you from making intelligent commentary on the trade.

    To pretend Bargnani hasn’t stunk out the joint for the vast majority of his career is delusional.

    Who cares what “skills” he has “for his size?” Great, he shoots the three pretty good for a guy his size. He also does everything else incredibly badly “for his size,” including playing help defense, rebounding, protecting the rim, and just about everything else you’d associate with being seven feet tall. What good is it being a seven footer if you don’t do any of the things that seven-footers do?

  45. Bruno Almeida

    ruruland: To pretend Bargnani is void of high-level skills for a guy his size disqualifies you from making intelligent commentary on the trade.

    he averages 4.8 rebounds a game in his career, he’s an absolute nightmare on defense and for a guy who’s been lauded as a great shooter, his career .535 TS% and .360 3pt% are frankly quite underwhelming… he also has an unbelievably bad 1.3 assist per game career average, which is crazy considering he’s hovering on the perimeter or on the elbow areas so much.

    and that’s all forgetting the fact that he played 66 games in the last two seasons combined, and looked thoroughly uninterested for long stretches on the court.

    does he have talent? of course he does. but does it really matter, when his shortcomings are so amazingly bad?

  46. johnno

    jon abbey: Camby’s treatment in NY last year was always pretty odd from the outside,

    Huh?? He couldn’t stay healthy for more than 3 days in a row and he’s complaining that he didn’t get a chance? It would have been nice if he came to camp in shape so that he didn’t pull a muscle the first day.

  47. ruruland

    AB’s Synergy numbers on offense prior to the last two seasons are excellent, if he can just bounce back to those two years, with a change of role and shot distribution, his efficiency will look excellent, with his low turnovers he’d certainly be better than Copeland last year.

    In 2010-11 he was 48th in isolations, 48th in post-ups, 46th off screens (great for a big man), and 38th as a roll man (great in pick and pop, 37 % from 3). He shot a respectable 40 % in spot-up situations, but is a guy who likely gets his shooting rhythm while on the move.

    Ok, so why was his efficiency middling?
    39 percent of his shots came in isolations and post-ups, so even thought he was proficient in both, they pulled his numbers down quite a bit. His usage was 28.

    As as point of reference, 48 % of Melo’s shots come in isolation or post-ups, which is about the only way any player who isn’t in a fastbreak system can sustain 35 % usage.

    In 2009-10 when he had a 8.8 tov rating and 55 TS, he ranked 56th in post-ups, 64th as a roll man (40 % from 3), 58th in spot-ups (42 % from 3pt for a 7-footer!!) 58th in cuts and 20th in offensive rebound efficiency.

    That’s outstanding. With a dramatically reduced burden, the knicks can employ Bargnani in optimal situations — if he doesn’t have an advantage against a slow big man or small wing man, he can play pick and pop or spot-up and space the court.

    Clearly he is one of the mast versatile offensive bigs in the game, how he is utilized and how his shots are apportioned will largely determine how his numbers look.

    If he’s healthy he can surely return to the form he had for four years, and he won’t be in a situation where he’ll have to force anything (hopefully).

  48. ruruland

    Robert Silverman: I just meant that an injury could come at any time, even for a player of legendary durability like Kobe. It’s very, very rare that players leave $ on the table or risk a payday when they don’t have to — even if it’s to the detriment of the team. Of course, Melo might do just that (and again, you know him far better than I do), but it would be the exception, not the rule, if he didn’t opt out next summer.

    Sure, that is true. I wouldn’t have to make the argument repeatedly if he wouldn’t be bucking the trend.

  49. Bruno Almeida

    ruruland, I’m sorry, but you’re only talking about offense… the thing is, we had the 3rd best offense in the NBA last season, the defense was our problem.

    adding Bargnani, even if he does turn out to be a great offensive option, only adds to that problem.

  50. Ted Nelson

    While I do not think hat this some earth shacking move, the response around here is a bit of a shock to me. Overly negative, in my opinion. They dealt a few fairly marginal assets. I would prefer to have seen fewer picks, but people are reacting to this as if they pinned all their hopes of winning on Bargnani. It’s sort of a medium sized deal for a likely bench player.

    Bargnani had an above average PER for three years before this past season. As simply a rotation player, rather than a cornerstone as we was expected to be in Toronto, he could be an asset for the Knicks. Another offensive weapon, should Melo or
    Smith ever choose to actually give up the ball. He’ll give up some points on D, but should benefit playing with Chandler and a solid overall defensive unit.

    Losing the pick hurts (1st specifically), but building through free agency isn’t the worst strategy. The extra cap space could be big.

  51. ruruland

    Bruno Almeida:
    ruruland, I’m sorry, but you’re only talking about offense… the thing is, we had the 3rd best offense in the NBA last season, the defense was our problem.

    adding Bargnani, even if he does turn out to be a great offensive option, only adds to that problem.

    Undeniable in a vacuum, but does he add to them more than Novak?

    That’s a more important question.

    I sincerely doubt it. AB would be playing Novak’s position, essentially, and has better lateral movement, a career rebound rate 5 % higher, and can occasionally block and alter shots.

    He’s certainly a potential upgrade on both ends of the floor.

  52. ruruland

    Ted Nelson:
    While I do not think hat this some earth shacking move, the response around here is a bit of a shock to me. Overly negative, in my opinion. They dealt a few fairly marginal assets. I would prefer to have seen fewer picks, but people are reacting to this as if they pinned all their hopes of winning on Bargnani. It’s sort of a medium sized deal for a likely bench player.

    Bargnani had an above average PER for three years before this past season. As simply a rotation player, rather than a cornerstone as we was expected to be in Toronto, he could be an asset for the Knicks. Another offensive weapon, should Melo or
    Smith ever choose to actually give up the ball. He’ll give up some points on D, but should benefit playing with Chandler and a solid overall defensive unit.

    Losing the pick hurts (1st specifically), but building through free agency isn’t the worst strategy. The extra cap space could be big.

    I’ve been told we bear a resemblance. Hello, Ted Nelson, I’m ruru.

  53. Robert Silverman Post author

    Aside from the problems w/Bargnani as a player or even the picks the team traded, what bugs me is that this seemingly is pointing towards the death of smallballNY. The PF/C rotation just got very crowded w/Chandler, STAT and Bargs. I think it means we see more PT for Melo at SF and far fewer 2 PG lineups. That’s not a good thing.

  54. ruruland

    Bruno Almeida: he averages 4.8 rebounds a game in his career, he’s an absolute nightmare on defense and for a guy who’s been lauded as a great shooter, his career .535 TS% and .360 3pt% are frankly quite underwhelming… he also has an unbelievably bad 1.3 assist per game career average, which is crazy considering he’s hovering on the perimeter or on the elbow areas so much.

    and that’s all forgetting the fact that he played 66 games in the last two seasons combined, and looked thoroughly uninterested for long stretches on the court.

    does he have talent? of course he does. but does it really matter, when his shortcomings are so amazingly bad?

    Yes, as Ted and others mentioned, what have we given up for him?

    A late first round pick in 2016 who probably isn’t going to be given time to develop given that the Knicks are going to presumably be throwing out an All-Star lineup and patching together solid veterans around it?

    The Knicks aren’t rebuilding now and won’t be in 2016.

    this is a different business model. It doesn’t work in OKC or Denver, but it CAN work in NY, it just hasn’t yet.

  55. johnno

    Ted Nelson: While I do not think hat this some earth shacking move, the response around here is a bit of a shock to me. Overly negative, in my opinion.

    What cracks me up is that most of the people who are screaming about this deal are the same ones who are still whining about the Knicks giving up the great Danilo Gallinari in the Melo deal. Check out their career numbers — Bargnani’s career averages are better than Gallinari’s best year and Bargnani’s best years are much better than Gallo’s. They are also a nervous wreck that the Knicks might lose Copeland, who is not as versatile a scorer as Bargnani and is a worse defender and rebounder. Bargnani as a stretch 4 is a perfect compliment to Melo as a “power 3.” Bargnani is a bust as the 1st pick in the draft but, if he were a mid-first round pick, the narrative on him would be very, very different.

  56. duckshoe

    And what ruruland doesn’t mention in his discussion of Bargnani’s numbers: in 2011 the Raptors defense was 6.1 points per 100 possessions worse with Bargnani on the floor. In 2010 it was 8.8 points per 100 possessions worse. In 2009 it was 7 points per 100 possessions worse. Ever since Bargnani’s third season in the NBA his impact on his teams defensive and overall performance has ranged from “bad” to “catastrophic”.

    The Raptors were 10-25 in games Bargnani played this year, which means they were 24-23 without him. I have no idea how anyone could spin that into being a positive, but if someone wants to give it a shot have at it.

  57. Igno-Bot 3000

    Chris Copeland shot 42% from the 3 last year. Andrea shot 31%. How is 31% spacing the floor??? Copeland: 48% FG, 55% eFG, 2.1 WS last season, Andrea 40% FG, 44% eFG, 0.1 WS!!!

    Say “hey we couldn’t afford Copeland, who could we get for the minimum:”

    Josh Harrellson (2011-12 stats): 42% FG, 34% 3PT, 49% eFG, 1.4 WS
    Carlos Delfino (just waived today): 40% FG, 37% 3PT, 53% eFG, 3.5 WS

    Or maybe just work with the floor-spacing big man we already have…:

    Amare Stoudemire: 58% FG, 58% eFG, 2.7 WS

  58. ruruland

    Robert Silverman:
    Aside from the problems w/Bargnani as a player or even the picks the team traded, what bugs me is that this seemingly is pointing towards the death of smallballNY. The PF/C rotation just got very crowded w/Chandler, STAT and Bargs. I think it means we see more PT for Melo at SF and far fewer 2 PG lineups. That’s not a good thing.

    Bargnani is a SF for all intents and purposes who can guard centers, power forwards and small forwards better than Novak. Not sure how it changes anything. The Knicks will be playing more small ball except with two SFs and likely no PFs.

    Bargnani’s skills potentially allow the Knicks to better utilize the spacing he helps create.

    If the Knicks play lineups with, say, Melo, Bargnani and Chandler, the Knicks will have two players who can either post small guys or go by big guys.

    If they somehow keep Cope, shit, they will have a hard time not playing small, hybrid lineups.

  59. ruruland

    Igno-Bot 3000:
    Chris Copeland shot 42% from the 3 last year.Andrea shot 31%.How is 31% spacing the floor???Copeland: 48% FG, 55% eFG, 2.1 WS last season, Andrea 40% FG, 44% eFG, 0.1 WS!!!

    Say “hey we couldn’t afford Copeland, who could we get for the minimum:”

    Josh Harrellson (2011-12 stats): 42% FG, 34% 3PT, 49% eFG, 1.4 WS
    Carlos Delfino (just waived today): 40% FG, 37% 3PT, 53% eFG, 3.5 WS

    Or maybe just work with the floor-spacing big man we already have…:

    Amare Stoudemire: 58% FG, 58% eFG, 2.7 WS

    And this trade has no bearing on bringing back Copeland, JR Smith, K-Mart, Prigs or somehow getting Delfino or Dunleavy with mini-mle.

    Nor does it change anything with Amar’e. If AB is as much as a dud as he was in Toronto, he will be glued to the bench until his contract expires and his career in the NBA comes to a merciful end.

    But guys tend to respond to last chances, which in some ways is simply a second chance for AB>

  60. ruruland

    Igno-Bot 3000:
    Chris Copeland shot 42% from the 3 last year.Andrea shot 31%.How is 31% spacing the floor???Copeland: 48% FG, 55% eFG, 2.1 WS last season, Andrea 40% FG, 44% eFG, 0.1 WS!!!

    Say “hey we couldn’t afford Copeland, who could we get for the minimum:”

    Josh Harrellson (2011-12 stats): 42% FG, 34% 3PT, 49% eFG, 1.4 WS
    Carlos Delfino (just waived today): 40% FG, 37% 3PT, 53% eFG, 3.5 WS

    Or maybe just work with the floor-spacing big man we already have…:

    Amare Stoudemire: 58% FG, 58% eFG, 2.7 WS

    I want Copeland back as much as anyone, but if he were somehow the first pick in the draft and the primary option on offense for much of his career, his numbers would ABSOLUTELY look different.

    Copeland, who I love and think is legit, had the benefit of playing against team’s inferior defenders and was no tilted to by the team defense, nor scouted as heavily as a primary option.

    That’s what’s happened to Bargnani through most of his career. He doesn’t have to deal with that anymore, and he might just be out on a mission to prove he belongs in the league.

    Reclamation projects can be a lot of fun; Bargnani is playing to keep his career alive and to prove he was somehow worthy of being a lotto pick.

  61. ruruland

    johnno: What cracks me up is that most of the people who are screaming about this deal are the same ones who are still whining about the Knicks giving up the great Danilo Gallinari in the Melo deal.Check out their career numbers — Bargnani’s career averages are better than Gallinari’s best year and Bargnani’s best years are much better than Gallo’s.They are also a nervous wreck that the Knicks might lose Copeland, who is not as versatile a scorer as Bargnani and is a worse defender and rebounder.Bargnani as a stretch 4 is a perfect compliment to Melo as a “power 3.”Bargnani is a bust as the 1st pick in the draft but, if he were a mid-first round pick, the narrative on him would be very, very different.

    Bargnani looks 2009-11 look better on Synergy than Gallo.

    They are very similar statistically. Gallo is a solid defender, however, I’m not sure Woody can coax solid out of Bargnani, but I think a winning environment and a leadership hierarchy will force him to exert himself more. He’ll be better than the guy he’s replacing.

    His post-up game is something Gallo doesn’t really have, but Gallo is a better decision-maker, playmaker and ballhandler.

  62. er

    johnno: What cracks me up is that most of the people who are screaming about this deal are the same ones who are still whining about the Knicks giving up the great Danilo Gallinari in the Melo deal.Check out their career numbers — Bargnani’s career averages are better than Gallinari’s best year and Bargnani’s best years are much better than Gallo’s.They are also a nervous wreck that the Knicks might lose Copeland, who is not as versatile a scorer as Bargnani and is a worse defender and rebounder.Bargnani as a stretch 4 is a perfect compliment to Melo as a “power 3.”Bargnani is a bust as the 1st pick in the draft but, if he were a mid-first round pick, the narrative on him would be very, very different.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bargnan01&y1=2013&p2=gallida01&y2=2013

  63. jon abbey

    rumors of Korver going to Brooklyn, they did a better job filling out their bench than us last year (Blatche, Watson, Evans) and are off to a good start this year again if that is true.

  64. Owen

    Gallo>>>>>bargnani

    That’s a joke of a comparison

    Ted Nelson? Really? Welcome back….

  65. mokers

    It sucks giving up the pick, but with the current tax and the apron where it is, the Knicks just don’t have a lot of flexibility getting players. It doesn’t affect how much they can give Smith, Copeland or Prigs. The Camby and Novak pu pu platter was not going to offer enough in expiring contracts or skill to get a young rotation player or any picks.

    Bargnani is not gong to be asked to do much other than hit spot up threes. If he can hit 40% on those shots, he will be an asset. What did Novak do in the offense besides stand around the permitter? And if a team ever tries to hide a smaller defender on him or switch, he can still post up. I don’t buy that the PF/C position is going to be crowded. Amar’e and likely chandler both need minutes limits. I still think we need Kmart back.

  66. er

    mokers:
    It sucks giving up the pick, but with the current tax and the apron where it is, the Knicks just don’t have a lot of flexibility getting players. It doesn’t affect how much they can give Smith, Copeland or Prigs. The Camby and Novak pu pu platter was not going to offer enough in expiring contracts or skill to get a young rotation player or any picks.

    Bargnani is not gong to be asked to do much other than hit spot up threes.If he can hit 40% on those shots, he will be an asset. What did Novak do in the offense besides stand around the permitter? And if a team ever tries to hide a smaller defender on him or switch, he can still post up. I don’t buy that the PF/C position is going to be crowded. Amar’e and likely chandler both need minutes limits. I still think we need Kmart back.

    K mart probably wont come back now since they asked him to sign and trade to TO

  67. Z

    Whoa, busy news day, huh? (the news was actually broken to me via Occupy MSG on Facebook (thanks, JA!).

    Reading the previous two threads, I am a little surprised at the negativity. You can’t really complain about what the Knicks gave up. Bargaini isn’t a very exciting catch, but they dumped garbage and probably improved heir team in the process. They got a bit younger, and contract expires on time. So it wasn’t a myopic Isiah move.

    That said, what is the tax hit on the trade? Does this damage the “we didn’t want to pay the Lin contract tax” argument put forth by Dolan and co.?

  68. Z

    ruruland: I’ve been told we bear a resemblance. Hello, Ted Nelson, I’m ruru.

    I knew Ted Nelson. We served together during the Isiah era. Ted Nelson was a friend of mine.

    You, sir, are no Ted Nelson.

  69. Z

    (*81 is a joke… Glad to have Ted back, and I look forward to the 10,000 back-and-forth’s between he and Ruru that KB fans deserve to enjoy. (repeal the Ted Nelson character limit!!)

  70. er

    Z:
    Whoa, busy news day, huh? (the news was actually broken to me via Occupy MSG on Facebook (thanks, JA!).

    Reading the previous two threads, I am a little surprised at the negativity. You can’t really complain about what the Knicks gave up. Bargaini isn’t a very exciting catch, but they dumped garbage and probably improved heir team in the process. They got a bit younger, and contract expires on time. So it wasn’t a myopic Isiah move.

    That said, what is the tax hit on the trade? Does this damage the “we didn’t want to pay the Lin contract tax” argument put forth by Dolan and co.?

    Lin will be making 15 million next year!!!!!!! Barf makes 11

  71. JK47

    We desperately need K-Mart and his defense back. He’s more important than either Prigs or Copeland in my opinion.

  72. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    rumors of Korver going to Brooklyn, they did a better job filling out their bench than us last year (Blatche, Watson, Evans) and are off to a good start this year again if that is true.

    Korver will be a better player than Pierce next year, so yeah.

  73. jon abbey

    so, am I confused or do the Knicks really only have six guys plus draft picks under contract for next year currently?

    Melo
    Amar’e
    Chandler
    Bargnani
    Shumpert
    Felton

    even with Hardaway and Leslie, that is a lot of open roster spots, wow.

  74. BigBlueAL

    Also Ted Nelson!! I guess the current Yankee team is so depressing to watch they drove you back to Knickerblogger :-)

  75. er

    JK47:
    We desperately need K-Mart and his defense back. He’s more important than either Prigs or Copeland in my opinion.

    one concern is if he has a whole year left in him

  76. ruruland

    Z: I knew Ted Nelson. We served together during the Isiah era. Ted Nelson was a friend of mine.

    You, sir, are no Ted Nelson.

    Haha.

    What will it take move Ted Nelson into action again?

  77. ruruland

    er: one concern is if he has a whole year left in him

    I’m guessing they will restrict Amar’e into only playing games with days off before and after. Kmart can play 50-60 games and be fine from an ego standpoint, but being asked to go in the S&T, incredibly stupid.

  78. Z

    ruruland: Haha.

    What will it take move Ted Nelson into action again?

    Ask Frank… He was the one that sent TN into exile :)

    (Though, that seems hard to comprehend now. Am I remembering it right, Frank? Something about stat-perspective?)

  79. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: But guys tend to respond to last chances, which in some ways is simply a second chance for AB>

    What a justification.

    I’m convinced that this guy uses the internet as his personal training ground for a possible career as a crisis mitigation PR rep.

    “guys tend to respond to last chances”

    What the fuck. This is worth $11M?

  80. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: Haha.

    What will it take move Ted Nelson into action again?

    Competent decision making.

    Last year we got a bunch of WP48 superstars and nearly turned it into a second-round series win.

    This year we’re going to load up on the shittiest of the shitty. I can’t wait to see you explain this year’s 45 win team.

    It’s too early to make a firm prediction, but unless Chandler puts a DPOY campaign together, this team will not win fifty games.

  81. er

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: What a justification.

    I’m convinced that this guy uses the internet as his personal training ground for a possible career as a crisis mitigation PR rep.

    “guys tend to respond to last chances”

    What the fuck. This is worth $11M?

    LMAOOO

  82. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: What a justification.

    I’m convinced that this guy uses the internet as his personal training ground for a possible career as a crisis mitigation PR rep.

    “guys tend to respond to last chances”

    What the fuck. This is worth $11M?

    I chuckled.

  83. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Competent decision making.

    Last year we got a bunch of WP48 superstars and nearly turned it into a second-round series win.

    This year we’re going to load up on the shittiest of the shitty. I can’t wait to see you explain this year’s 45 win team.

    It’s too early to make a firm prediction, but unless Chandler puts a DPOY campaign together, this team will not win fifty games.

    Kidd, right? You’re just talking about the third best pg in the NBA, right?

  84. er

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Competent decision making.

    Last year we got a bunch of WP48 superstars and nearly turned it into a second-round series win.

    This year we’re going to load up on the shittiest of the shitty. I can’t wait to see you explain this year’s 45 win team.

    It’s too early to make a firm prediction, but unless Chandler puts a DPOY campaign together, this team will not win fifty games.

    How wont the Knicks win fifty? They got swept by the Bulls already without DRose, split with indy and bk. Philly is worse, Celtics are worse……..the bottom half of the east is awful. The Cavs and Wiz should be better but geez dont get ahead of yourself in your negativity. We dont even know who will be on the Knicks this year let alone the impact of the rookies or Barfs. Even if the Knicks go 7-9 against the Nets, Heat, Bulls and Pacers. They should still win 50 hell all melos teams have won 50 since 06

  85. Robert Silverman Post author

    Monta Ellis. Tee hee! Okay, I’ve moved on from bile-spouting rage to semi-psychotic giggling, kinda like Walter While in the “Crawl Space” Breaking Bad episode.

  86. Bruno Almeida

    Robert Silverman:
    Monta Ellis. Tee hee! Okay, I’ve moved on from bile-spouting rage to semi-psychotic giggling, kinda like Walter While in the “Crawl Space” Breaking Bad episode.

    yeah, it’s gotta be a joke… if we resign J.R and somehow get Monta, we could end up watching the most unwatchable lineup ever of Felton / Ellis / J.R / STAT / Bargnani, which would basically force me into compulsive drinking in less than 2 minutes of play.

    fortunately that’s not gonna happen.

  87. nicos

    I think people are forgetting that AB was far more comfortable and had his best seasons when the offense ran though Bosh- if he’s healthy he should be able to return to that form Here (and I agree with Ruru that having a chance to wipe the slate clean and start over with a fan base that really wants him to succeed could light a real fire under him and he could surprise few people). He’s still awful defensively- though I thought he improved a bit under Casey- and I’d be happier if the trade fell through but it’s hardly a disaster.

  88. kaine

    I can provide you with some insights regarding to our Bargnani; I’m Italian and I followed him from the starts of his career.
    the player: basically, he has a shooting guard mind in a center body. In Italy his mentor was a pure “2″ and he inherited his mindset, with the good traits (confidence, smartness) and the bads: without the ball sometimes he is lost and that impacts his really poor offensive rebounding.
    He is usually a good decision-maker and can put the ball down; you can play some good Iso’s off him;
    offensively he is a really good fit in knicks system and can lift some burden from melo’s shoulders (if melo is willing to pass, obviously :) )
    I can assure you that he has an allstar talent when the team attacks, even if his back to basket skills are just basics.

    On defense: man to man , he defendes reasonably well against bigs; he learned form jermaine o’neal some tricks and can keep his own.
    help defense is not his bread and butter; he can be a decent shotblocker but is more of system man, not a great individual defender.
    He is a poor defensive rebounder, mostly because in europe big man are tought to focus on position and to cut-out your man; I’ll tell you the truth: he can make some play on defense but he can be really irritating;again, shooting guard mentality: if the ball is not near him he drifts away.
    his nba career: rarely he was put in the best position to succeed; he was drafted as a franchise player but had to fight an established star to gain spaces; he had just bad or mediocre coaches, and the first one, Mitchell, never reached to him and just flat-out boycott him.
    that’s just my opinion, but we must remember that international players are always questioned and undermined, and the reason is simple: more international players means less jobs for (african)-american ones; you protect jour job. we’re talking milions of dollars here.there’s a reason if mitchell didn’t have any new coaching job
    bargs is a good fit for the…

  89. KnickfaninNJ

    Kaine,

    Many thanks for the nice update. Do you think the Knicks will be a better fit for him than Toronto?

  90. flossy

    JK47:
    So far this offseason has been about as uplifting as a funeral in a thunderstorm.Tim Hardaway Jr., CJ Leslie and Andrea Bargnani, with Aaron Brooks rumored to also be waiting in the wings.Hoo boy.

    I’ll see your Aaron Brooks and raise you “interested in Monta Ellis”

  91. iserp

    About the trade, i am worried that this will bite us back after the “reboot”. I was hoping that after 2015, we would only resign Melo, tank for year, gather young players and then make a splash in free agency. That would give us a nice team from 2016 onwards (Pierce has been useful till 35, why not Melo), but this messes all that.

    Right now, Bargnani will be an improvement over what we have given up. He fits nicely with Melo and Chandler, and will provide spacing without sucking at everything else (Novak, ehem, although Copeland did fine last season at that role). D is gonna be a problem, we will have to see how he fares next to Chandler / K-Mart. Overall, i think he gives us another scape when we had only JR Smith providing offense.

  92. mase

    i love this trade!
    it works on many levels, he can play with either melo or amare units; he was burnt out in toronto by never living up to the #1 pick pressure and comes to NY without any pressure on him.
    We gave up 2 terrible contracts and lots of picks, im fine with it…if Grunnie is undoing his bad signings of novak and camby then he did a good job!

  93. Hubert

    massive:

    So we’ve had a thing for Bargs for a while now? They must know something I don’t. Now the giving up of a first makes sense. The Knicks’ brass must really like Bargs. I just want to know what they see in him. Grunwald better give us some answers when this happens.

    I think what they see in him is he was available.

    I still hate giving up the pick, but I think the player will do well here. I see him as a replacement for Copeland, who I expect to get more money elsewhere. A replacement that our coach will actually play.

    One thing I hate is the notion floating around that we did this to keep up with the Nets. I hope we’re not that pathetic. Besides, that Nets trade was terrible.

  94. Hubert

    Z:

    That said, what is the tax hit on the trade? Does this damage the “we didn’t want to pay the Lin contract tax” argument put forth by Dolan and co.?

    Haha! I forgot about that. I think we all knew that was bunk at the time, though, right?

  95. kaine

    KnickfaninNJ:
    Kaine,

    Many thanks for the nice update. Do you think the Knicks will be a better fit for him than Toronto?

    yes
    -a good team based on a good system
    -a star that caters most of the media attention
    -a role that plays by his strenght and that can hide his weaknesses
    -the perfect buddy in Tyson

    if he is healthy, he is a great sign.

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