Knicks Morning News (2018.06.01)

Anybody who feels sorry for LeBron needs to remember he made Cleveland give JR $55M, Tristan Thompson $80M, and Iman Shumpert $40M. He also tried to make Mark Jackson his head coach but settled for Ty freaking Lue.

The man is the greatest basketball player of this era by far, and he’s still by far the best player in the NBA, but his team is trash because he built it. Kudos to him for dragging his late lottery team to the Finals, though.

Co-sign on this.

It is truly mind-boggling how much better he is than any other player in the NBA, and while I never thought I would say this about anyone, I think he is better than Jordan ever was. But all these 1+1 contracts and behind-the-scenes GM-ing are the things mostly responsible for where the Cavs are talent-wise right now.

Actually I co-sign everything except the part about “this late lottery team”. You put just about anyone else on this team in place of Lebron and they’re not “late lottery”, they are vying for that #1 pick.

This offseason is going to be veerrry interesting. Barring Iguodala being out the whole series which would really crack the door open for an improbable Cavs miracle, it sorta feels like Lebron is gone. I don’t see any real possibility that he ends up in Houston unless Morey is REALLY willing to completely mortgage the future (ie. send out multiple unprotected firsts to get someone to absorb Ryan Anderson etc) AND CP3 and Lebron are willing to take sub-max money. Lakers are probably where he will go — Lonzo, Ingram, PG, Lebron, Kuzma, Josh Hart, their #25+#47 pick + room exception + vets’ minimums would give GS and Houston a real run for their money. If they decide to stretch Deng, they would only have ~$23MM (+min cap holds + draft slot $) committed for 2018-19. Figure Lebron+PG = $70MM — still something to work with there.

The Cavs are about to add the #8 pick to a team that already made the finals in a much weaker conference where they would have to be favorites right now to make the Finals next year, as well. I don’t know why Lebron would give that up.

Idk, Cleveland played pretty decent defense until overtime and the Warriors had another friendly whistle.

The team could use a plug in rim protector (Whiteside?), another athletic 3-pt shooter (Mikal?) and a better backup PG and they could be right back here again next year.

I think a switch to another team would be a setback for Lebron, as he’s so familiar with this squad. Plus they can still further integrate guys like Nance and Hood who are still improving.

The interesting thing about Beasley is that since he’s probably just going to be signing another vet minimum contract this upcoming season, the Cavs could probably outright sign him if they wanted to.

As for Lee, that’s always been the problem with Lee. He’s a guy who makes perfect sense on good teams and was always a terrible waste here. Phil Jackson was such an awful GM.

Isn’t Hood a free agent?

But yes, it is shocking how Hood can’t get on the court for the Cavs.

I think Lebron is pretty sure he could make the Finals with just about any team. Seriously, add him to the Knicks and we are in the Finals next year. 85% KP + re-signed KOQ + THJ + Lee + Frank +Lance + #9 pick is better than the Cavs are right now. Put him on Charlotte with Kemba, Batum, Dwight, Malik Monk, and MKG and they’re probably making the finals. At this point Lebron has to be thinking about how to get over the Warriors, not about winning the Eastern Conference.

Outside of joining CP3 and Harden in Houston, there is no team that Lebron could join that would make his new team the favorites over Golden State. Heck, if he went to the Lakers, that would just mean he would have Golden State and Houston to go through just to get to the Finals. Meanwhile, his current team almost beat Golden State in Game 1 and he’d be able to add the #8 pick plus possible dudes on the fringes.

So when you add in the whole “this is his hometown team” angle to it, I don’t get why he would leave. Heck, had the 2009-10 Cavs been coming off of an NBA Finals appearance then (let alone four in a row), I don’t think he ever would have left in the first place.

Rodney Hood kinda sucks and I think he refused to play in one of the early round games

BTW, never forget that Lebron went out of his way during the Cavaliers championship celebration to crap on the Knicks for trading JR. I am definitely enjoying some schadenfreude right now watching Lebron “the player” fume at the guy who Lebron “the GM” traded and overpaid for.

Which is probably why he’s going to Houston.

Morey would have to go scorched Earth to fit Lebron on that team, though, no? CP3 and Lebron would both have to take paycuts, he’d have to include multiple sweeteners to dump Ryan Anderson. It’d be kind of nuts.

Morey would have to go scorched Earth to fit Lebron on that team, though, no? CP3 and Lebron would both have to take paycuts, he’d have to include multiple sweeteners to dump Ryan Anderson. It’d be kind of nuts.

Well, word is that Paul was already trying to recruit Lebron over to H0uston before the Finals even began.

Last night was an example of why the Knicks had to give up Shumpert to “get rid” of JR Smith. It’s probably even money he was playing “high” last night. Even he wasn’t, it was still better than even money he was going to do a couple of things like during the playoff run. When you are running around with James, Irving and Love, that kind of stuff gets missed or dismissed because they usually win anyway. But with any other team (or against the Warriors), you aren’t going to get away with foolishness or brain farts. He had to go just to get him away from the team and any potential he might poison someone other than Shumpert (who was his clubbing and partying pal at the time in NY).

Last night was an example of why the Knicks had to give up Shumpert to “get rid” of JR Smith. It’s probably even money he was playing “high” last night. Even he wasn’t, it was still better than even money he was going to do a couple of things like during the playoff run. When you are running around with James, Irving and Love, that kind of stuff gets missed or dismissed because they usually win anyway. But with any other team (or against the Warriors), you aren’t going to get away with foolishness or brain farts. He had to go just to get him away from the team and any potential he might poison someone other than Shumpert (who was his clubbing and partying pal at the time in NY).

True, if they hadn’t gotten rid of JR when they did, the team would have been a joke for the past few years…hey, wait a second.

Turning down a pick for Shump just to get rid of JR so that Phil could free up cap space to sign Arron Afflalo was yet another one of Phil’s awful GM moves. Man, was that guy a terrible GM.

Jo Noah used to shoot mid-range jumpers and he was terrible at making them. Maybe there was some benefit to team spacing from that, but at the same time Noah shooting jumpers was terrible for the Bulls offense because he couldn’t shoot. Porzingis creates space, sure, but he also is a very good 3 point shooter.

Debates are rarely one extreme or the other. They are always more nuanced.

If you are are bad at shooting mid range shots or 3s, you obviously should not be shooting them.

However, the idea is to expand your range and be proficient enough at it that the other team is forced to guard you or your efficiency will be high enough to punish them. If you get to that stage, it impacts how the defense plays and can help your teammates.

So yes, Capela should try to expand his game so he can do more than dunk on P&Rs and put backs. If he can successfully, CP3 and Harden will be able to take advantage of his new skillset when he has the best of the matchup and defenses will have alter how they cover him now.

I think Paul George is pretty awesome, especially as a 2nd wheel. Elite wing defender, great 3 point shooter, good enough on offense to be a primary ballhandler / creator in a pinch. He would be Lebron’s Pippen. He’s not a guy who could be the best player on a championship team, but he’s easily good enough to be the 2nd best player.

Lebron should go to Philly. And it’s a better city than Cleveland. He has the rest of his life to live in LA.

I still can’t get over the way the refs handed that game to Golden State. There was a foul call on a clean strip of Durant by Hill. There was a no foul call on a strip of Lebron where it looked like the Warriors defender was trying to remove his wrist. And that blocking call reversal was ridiculous.

I mean honestly, Lebron was moving laterally quite a bit. But there is no way it wasn’t close enough to be upheld on review.

Win or lose in the Finals, Lebron has done more for his reputation this playoff season than I ever imagined possible.

For the record, Shumpert would not have netted us any kind of decent pick due to injury history and mediocre play and would have costed us a lot of money to keep. He would have become another bad contract.

If JR was not involved in the trade, Shump would have gotten them a late first rounder. That is a decent pick (especially compared to what they got instead, which was just getting rid of JR).

For the record, Shumpert would not have netted us any kind of decent pick due to injury history and mediocre play and would have costed us a lot of money to keep. He would have become another bad contract.

David Griffin has come out and said the Cavs were willing to surrender a pick for Shumpert, but Phil countered that they could have him without the pick so long as they also took on Smith. Example number ten billion of Phil prioritizing short term cap space over the long term health of the franchise due to his belief that the Knicks were one triangle, one Arron Afflalo, and one Derrick Williams away from winning a championship.

I didn’t hate the Tyson trade at the time because I thought there was a decent chance Shane Larkin turned into a viable NBA player (which it turns out may have been correct), Wayne Ellington had been under utilized (also perhaps true), and the risk of Tyson lowering his value if we held onto him until the deadline existed. It turns out he definitely would’ve raised it, but it was a fair calculation. Alas, Phil quickly declined Larkin’s option, cut Ellington, and drafted two lackluster prospects with the picks and showed his real motivation was to free some cap space as usual.

@30

For the record strato, I do think you have real arguments and I respect your posts (unless you’re trying too hard to prove tanking isn’t ever viable).

But considering only 12 Centers in the entire NBA do have a positive ORPM, and that Capela’s negative mark is still 22nd in the league out of 83 players, better than guys widely know to be more diverse in their offensive game like Pau Gasol, Hassan Whiteside or Myles Turner, I’m not sure how meaningful this is.

If you look at the guys on top, it is a big sign that every one of them pretty much shoots 3s. Jokic, KAT, Embiid, Love, Cousins, Nowitzki, you have to get to 7th in the list for the first guy who doesn’t (Adams), who’s also just as limited as Capela is in terms of skillset. So why Adams is 7th and positive when he only rebounds and dunks and every other center like that is negative?

I’m not being smug, I really don’t know what to make of it and how relevant it really is.

That’s highly questionable because he was originally the 17th pick, wasn’t that good, had already had a significant injury, and was about to get paid. But even so, like I said, I would have preferred to suffer with JR a little longer. However, I fully understood the desire to get rid of all the riff raff, start with a clean slate, tank, and not pay Shumpert. Getting rid of the riff raff and mal-contents quickly costs us on 2 deals.

As noted, that was specifically the move there. Either trade Shump for a pick or attach JR to Shump and get no pick. It was not questionable. It was what happened.

In the most Knicks’ thing ever, LeBron is going to sign another 1+1 in Cleveland, and then in 2019 he will sign a contract with the New York Knicks. The Knicks, believe it or not, make the most sense for a couple of reasons:

1) Despite James Dolan, the Knicks have arguably the most progressive front office in the league as the GM, POBO, AGM, Director of Player Development, and head coach are all black. I wouldn’t be shocked if LeBron wanted to be a part of that.
2) David Fizdale is good friends with LeBron and is trying to build a winning culture in New York. Who better to build winning habits and culture with than the GOAT?
3) We aren’t the Lakers, Celtics, or 76ers, but the New York Knicks have a good group of youngsters. By 2019-2020, that group could look like KP, Burke, Hardaway, Ntilikina, Michael Porter Jr/Miles Bridges, and Darius Garland/Romeo Langford. That’s a lot of clay for Fizdale, Robinson, and LeBron to mold.
4) LeBron could build his brand off court in New York in his sleep. Literally.
5) He stays in the Eastern Conference and moves into the same division as Kyrie Irving.
6) Most importantly, it would be 10 years later than Knicks fans hoped for which almost cements it for me.

Houston would be a bad look for the NBA. Philly just seems like he’d be stepping on Ben Simmons’ toes. LA would be in the Western Conference and he’d likely have to see both of Houston and GSW in the playoffs. Look for LeBron to come to NY and crush Kyrie’s chances of winning a title in Boston with Fizdale and add to his legacy as the greatest Knick, Heat, and Cavalier player ever. The guy is never going to get 5 or 6 rings. One ring in Cleveland and one ring for the Knicks, though? Those two championships by themselves would be worth more than MJ’s 6 and Kobe’s 5.

JR Smith lived up to his Chinese nickname last night.

“J.R. Smith: ??? (shénj?ng d?o), or “Psychotic Blade.” The nickname is a nod to Smith’s unpredictability and inconsistency, as he can hit 11 three-pointers in one game yet also give away victories with baffling turnovers.“

For more nicknames see

https://qz.com/1293241/2018-nba-finals-chinese-nicknames-for-cavaliers-and-warriors-players-including-lebron-james-and-steph-curry/?from=singlemessage

houston is the only team he would leave cleveland for and they propbably still dont beat GS,

JR was still a decent player back then, but he was also pouting and playing like shit for the Knicks. I guess the right move would have been just to cut him and eat his contract.

JR was still a decent player back then, but he was also pouting and playing like shit for the Knicks. I guess the right move would have been just to cut him and eat his contract.

If getting him off the team was that important, then yes, precisely.

The idea that Lebron is responsible for the team being bad because he’s actually the GM is asinine. The team is bad because they whiffed horribly on the Kyrie Irving trade. That’s the reason. Blaming it on the JR and Tristan contracts shows a fundamental misunderstanding of their cap situation over the last few years. Those guys are on bad deals, but they were already over the cap when they retained them and those guys are both still valuable contributors. Those spots would be going to minimum guys without them and the only improvement would be in Dan Gilbert’s pocketbook.

Lebron “forces” a team into win-now moves because when you have him you’re always right on the verge of a championship. Making moves to try to shift those short-term odds slightly in your favor is smart. The Cavs got one title out of it and could easily have gotten more if they weren’t running into one of the best teams ever in the finals every year.

For the record, Shumpert would not have netted us any kind of decent pick due to injury history and mediocre play and would have costed us a lot of money to keep. He would have become another bad contract.

For the record:

“Under no circumstances are the Knicks going to be a contender next year anyway. So why not hope he opts out and if not not sit on him for another year and just eat the mistake of resigning him. Then you get to trade Shumpert independently and actually get something back that will help long term assuming you don’t think Shump fits. It’s not that much extra cap space and there’s no guarantee we can use it more effectively next year than the year after that.

This is Donnie Walsh II. We keep giving up more long term value than we are receiving for some kind of “perceived” short term gain.

Arguably, we gave away two players that are going to start for contenders (they are already saying Shump will probably start for the Cavs) and we have nothing to show for it.

There’s no way these are good moves even if you can talk yourself into thinking they weren’t bad moves because the Knicks were going to lose them anyway. The idea is to get something for them!”

-Stratomatic, 1/5/2015

When have the Knicks rented cap space out for a first round pick?

Isiah actually did this, and it was disastrous, so the policy changed. (He traded an expiring Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose + #20 effectively buying the Renaldo Balkman pick for $15,000,000 in cap space (plus an additional $15,000,000 in luxury tax).

It is pretty funny to go out of your way to get rid of “bad culture” guys and then go out and trade for Derrick freakin’ Rose. Or maybe instead of “funny,” I should say “dumb.”

Actually, this past game convinced me MJ is the GOAT. He would never have put up with JR’s antics to the point that what happened last night was possible. MJ would have choked him out in practice a long time ago.

Outside of joining CP3 and Harden in Houston, there is no team that Lebron could join that would make his new team the favorites over Golden State.

LeBron to Boston for Kyrie and Sacramento’s pick next year would make them a prohibitive favorite next year. It would suck for Kyrie, but he has no say in the matter, and Ainge is ruthless.

Jordan had a teammate get suspended for six games (if it were today, it would probably be a loooot longer) for kicking a cameraman in the crotch. Some nutjobs can’t be controlled by anyone.

Jordan put up with Rodman’s antics because he was all about winning. That cameraman incident didn’t even matter. If Rodman pulled the antic JR pulled there would have been a fight in that locker room last night.

That cameraman incident didn’t even matter.

He got suspended for six games. That directly affected the team’s chances of winning, since he was the team’s third best player. Had it happened nowadays, he’d possibly have been suspended the rest of the season! I think some guys are just such knuckleheads that there isn’t any getting through to them.

Pretty sure Koby Altman is not trading with Ainge again…

I actually don’t think Lebron to the Sixers is a good match. No doubt the Sixers have a lot of talent, but you’d basically take one of their 2 best players (Simmons) and make him superfluous. I mean, he can’t shoot at all. He’s not even Dwyane Wade in terms of bad shooting. He took 99.2% of his FGA from 2 point range, and of the mid-range jumpers he took he shot about 25%. Wade was at least elite in terms of basket cuts and moving off the ball, but we have no idea whether Simmons can even do that.

So if you sign Lebron to the max, it means JJ Redick isn’t coming back unless he were willing to take an 80% pay cut and sign for the room exception — there goes by far your best shooter. You’re then stuck with Covington (average shooter at best), Embiid (amazing but shot 30.8% from 3 point range this year), Fultz (broken shot), and Dario Saric. They still have some assets they could move to get a shooter, but then you don’t have those assets anymore.

I dunno, it doesn’t really make sense to me. The major advantage for the Sixers might just be that no other team has Lebron. I guess that works.

The Lakers though? Ingram and Josh Hart both shot 39% from 3. Lonzo didn’t shoot well from 3 but presumably that’ll get better. Kuzma shot 37%. Then add Paul George, who is good for 40% from 3.

And he would get to live in LA.

Makes more sense to me.

LeBron to Boston for Kyrie and Sacramento’s pick next year would make them a prohibitive favorite next year. It would suck for Kyrie, but he has no say in the matter, and Ainge is ruthless.

Boston making a run at LBJ makes sense for both sides. LeBron stays out east and joins a team with young talent and arguably the best coach/gm duo in the league. Boston adds the best player in the world and just as importantly keeps him from joining Philly. A Hayward + Sacto pick and filler for LBJ would be perfect except you run the risk of Kyrie bolting at the end of the season- I think LBJ’s desire to win would outweigh any grudge he has against Kyrie. It’d be tough to make the salaries work to do Kyrie for LBJ so it’s probably Hayward or bust. Boston standing pat already runs the risk of getting passed by Philly- Horford is probably their mvp and he’s 32 and Smart who’s their best perimeter defender may leave in free agency. If I’m Ainge the possibility of rolling out a Horford, LBJ, Tatum, Brown, Kyrie lineup is too good to pass up. Heck, trade Kyrie for some quality front court depth and start Rozier.

He would never have put up with JR’s antics to the point that what happened last night was possible. MJ would have choked him out in practice a long time ago.

lmao

You do get the feeling that James and Jordan have different management styles.

James is more of the positive reinforcement and build loyalty type.

Jordan is more of the “I’ll kick your ass if you do that again” type.

It is pretty funny to go out of your way to get rid of “bad culture” guys and then go out and trade for Derrick freakin’ Rose. Or maybe instead of “funny,” I should say “dumb.”

“Astonishing” is the word I would use.

Everyone knows where I stand on Phil, but for me it was kind of like this.

Phase 1. “I don’t like the details of everything you are doing, but I agree with the general idea.

Phase 2. “I understand this a little better and I’m OK with it even though I still disagree with some details”

Phase 3. “WTF are you doing?”

Lebron has to decide whether his legacy in Cleveland or more titles are more important to him.

It’s not that easy a choice.

With the Rockets he’ll have to run up against the Warriors every year until his own team starts fading as he and CP3 get older.

The 76ers are younger and give him a much longer window, but he may start running into a spectacular young and peaking Celtics team with Ainge and Stevens for many years.

So Jordan is better than Lebron because he’s a sociopath?

As a human being? No.
As a basketball player? Yes.

@72

I like your thinking. There is a butterfly effect to these kind of things.

Like, what if Allan Houston’s winning shot in Game 5 vs the Heat doesn’t bounce in. Do the Knicks do a proper re-build, sparing everybody here the torture of the last 20 years?

@76
Now, Brian. How do you know that it is not true love?

On the other hand, yeah, maybe he could do better. Like Taylor Swift!

Embiid>Paul George, Saric>Ingram, Simmons>Lonzo, Covington>Kuzma, staying in the east>going out west. Sixers should also add another potential rotation piece with the 10th pick. If I’m LBJ (barring Morey working some kind of magic to open cap space without gutting the team) it’s Philly, Boston, or staying put in Cleveland.

Let’s say that you’re an NBA player and you get offered a chance to be Kendall Jenner’s “boyfriend.” You don’t have to do much, just pretend to date her for however long. You just can’t play too far away from a major city (why Blake couldn’t “date” her anymore). Would you do it? I wanted to criticize Simmons at first for doing this, because it seems like such a vapid thing to do, to pretend to date some celebrity just to get your name in the paper, but then I thought, “Eh, it’s not hurting anyone and you really do get a lot of media attention for doing it, so what’s the big deal?”

I seem to recall it didn’t work out all too well for Kris Humphries.

That was actually dating, though. This is fake dating. Fake dating is no harm, no foul. Just get seen with Kendall Jenner every once in a while.

Interesting quote from JR. He said he knew the game was tied but expected the coach to call a timeout to set up a play instead of him immediately shooting over Durant. I actually buy that.

How can anyone watch this Cavs team and say that LeBron wouldn’t benefit from another playmaker like Simmons is beyond me.

Yes, their skills overlap, but like djphan said very well, they are hugely important skills like great passing, court vision and creating efficient shots for themselves and their teammates. I don’t think you can ever have enough of those skills. You can never forget also that LeBron has turned himself into a pretty damn good shooter, and a LeBron who was a much lesser shooter still found great success with another guy who wasn’t a shooter in Wade (and Bosh who eventually became a long range threat but wasn’t one in his early Miami years).

There’s zero chance LA is a better basketball situation than Philly now, unless both Lonzo and Ingram become superstars right away with James on the team. I do think Lonzo will eventually be great but it certainly will take some time for him to get there.

Interesting quote from JR. He said he knew the game was tied but expected the coach to call a timeout to set up a play instead of him immediately shooting over Durant. I actually buy that.

You buy it, even though he said “I thought we were up” for 18,000,000 national viewers to lip read from multiple angles? Okay.

I don’t think LeBron ends up in LA, but do the Lakers have enough cap space to sign two max free agents? I think they’ll end up targeting (and landing) Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins, but maybe they don’t have all the money to do that. Or maybe Brandon Ingram doesn’t want to come off the bench and demands a trade out of LA because of it. I’d offer the Lakers Courtney Lee for Brandon Ingram and Luol Deng. It gives them $11M in extra space to maybe keep KCP or Isaiah Thomas, they get rid of Luol Deng, and they get a starting quality shooting guard in Courtney Lee. I think that would make a lot of sense for the Lakers. You lose Brandon Ingram (who’s more promise than production at this point), but you get a depth chart that looks like:

PG: Ball, Thomas
SG: Lee, Hart
SF: George
PF: Kuzma
C: Cousins, Zubac

Add in a vet minimum guy or two to fill out the bench and that’s a really good team that could be elite depending on the progression of Ball and Kuzma in their second years. The Knicks get another young wing to add to our group, and the Deng thing isn’t the biggest issue because he and Lee expire in the same year. I wonder if this is a plausible trade or if a) LA loves Brandon Ingram or b) the Knicks are dead set against adding any salary to the 2019-2020 cap.

Right, but there’s the issue of fit and building a team of useful players. Personally, I think Ball, Hart, George, Kuzma, Cousins, Thomas, Lee, and Zubac is a better team than Ball, Hart, George, Kuzma, Cousins, Ingram, Deng, Zubac. Then again, if the Lakers give George and Cousins $25M a year to start, they’d have the money to retain one of Isaiah Thomas, Brook Lopez, and Julius Randle. Imagine having the money to keep two though, AND you add Courtney Lee into the fold? Ball, Hart, George, Kuzma, Cousins, Thomas, Lee, Randle, and Zubac? Again, depending on the progression of Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, and Kyle Kuzma you’re talking about a team that could compete for the championship in 2020. All for the price of sending Brandon Ingram to the Eastern Conference. There’s the threat of Ingram becoming an All Star, but he probably wouldn’t be able to do that in Los Angeles anyway if the Lakers are giving a majority of the minutes at the 3 to Paul George.

Of course they could always stretch waive Deng, keep Ingram, and re-sign Isaiah Thomas and Julius Randle. That would be way less fun for us, though.