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Knicks Morning News (2024.08.08)


  • Why the Knicks should extend Julius Randle ahead of 2024-25 NBA season – sny.tv
    [sny.tv] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:05:38 GMT
    1. Why the Knicks should extend Julius Randle ahead of 2024-25 NBA season
    2. Julius Randle Contract Extension: Pros and Cons from Randles Perspective
    3. What should the Knicks and Julius Randle expect in contract extension negotiations?
    4. New York Knicks Insider Clears Up Julius Randle Trade Rumors
    5. Knicks, Julius Randle on the clock for tricky contract extension decision


  • Lauri Markkanen signs extension, Jalen Brunson named Knicks captain & Team USA runs by Brazil | No Cap Room – Yahoo Sports
    [Yahoo Sports] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:21:08 GMT

    Lauri Markkanen signs extension, Jalen Brunson named Knicks captain & Team USA runs by Brazil | No Cap Room


  • Can Deuce McBride hold off Tyler Kolek for backup point guard minutes? – Posting and Toasting
    [Posting and Toasting] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 11:00:00 GMT

    Can Deuce McBride hold off Tyler Kolek for backup point guard minutes?


  • The New York Knicks Have The Best Bench in the NBA – Last Word on Pro Basketball
    [Last Word on Pro Basketball] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 19:34:28 GMT
    1. The New York Knicks Have The Best Bench in the NBA
    2. The Knicks now have a not-so-secret weapon coming off the bench
    3. Could key Knicks playoff stars lead the NBA’s best bench next year?


  • Knicks Notes: Center Options, Wing Depth, Brunson, Randle – hoopsrumors.com
    [hoopsrumors.com] – Thu, 08 Aug 2024 03:44:00 GMT
    1. Knicks Notes: Center Options, Wing Depth, Brunson, Randle
    2. New York Knicks Land Warriors’ Draymond Green in Trade Proposal
    3. Four in-season Knicks trade targets to play backup center
    4. Are the Knicks elite? Talking defense, centers, Julius Randles future and more – The Athletic
    5. Why Mitchell Robinson could be X-factor for Knicks during 2024-25 NBA season


  • New York Knicks updated 2024 preseason schedule, tickets, how to watch – Daily Knicks
    [Daily Knicks] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 18:59:27 GMT
    1. New York Knicks updated 2024 preseason schedule, tickets, how to watch
    2. Wizards Announce 2024 Preseason Schedule
    3. 2024 Knicks pre-season schedule leaked by other teams
    4. Josh Robbins: The Wizards’ preseason schedule, as announced by the team: Oct. 6 at Raptors (in Montr
    5. Washington Wizards Announce 2045-25 Preseason Schedule


  • Carmelo Anthony’s Daughter Celebrates 7 With Knicks Party – The Shade Room
    [The Shade Room] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:06:04 GMT

    Carmelo Anthony’s Daughter Celebrates 7 With Knicks Party


  • Julius Randle reveals why he switched to Sketchers from Nike – Basketball Network
    [Basketball Network] – Wed, 07 Aug 2024 14:32:00 GMT

    Julius Randle reveals why he switched to Sketchers from Nike

  • 120 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.08.08)”

    From the previous thread (which many of you also do):
    geo: “nicknames are just so damn silly…seriously, like a bunch of kids…”

    Hmmmmmmm…….silly like playing video games as a grown adult, or sillier than that? 🙂

    From the previous thread (which many of you also do):
    Clarence Beeks says:
    August 7, 2024 at 22:08
    Werk.

    Downtown Doogie Brown says:
    August 7, 2024 at 22:20
    “Werk”?

    Is that German for something? 🙂

    I hope that Deuce can continue his ascendancy into a full-time, reliable player!

    CBA-heads: what’s the latest we can sign someone to the taxpayer midlevel and still be able to trade the player before the deadline? Specifically, still be able to aggregate his salary with Precious’ salary?

    In Deuce’s case, I believe it is something that he actually calls himself, and that he called himself prior to coming into the league. I might be incorrect about that assertion.

    Marks says we might as well use the midlevel in the current market since we have it (as a trade chip if nothing else).

    Someone mentioned during the Olympics that France’s 6’9” Matthias Lessort was available. He’d be a cromulent backup (and injury insurance) for Randle, but he might not want to come to a situation where he probably wouldn’t play.

    Edit: He doesn’t shoot threes, like, at all, so he’s probably not a great fit tbh.

    Yeah, I think we’re going to sign another Human Trade Exception of some sort, and ideally someone who can shoot if we get hit with another run of injuries. I keep going back to Bertans as a guy Begley has mentioned multiple times.

    Cool Alan! The title has to be “To Serve Man”.

    Can we resign Bogey? Too bad Burps took less money to go to Miami.

    Let’s get someone at least in the 6-foot-10 to 6-foot-11 range.

    “I’d honestly prefer Gallo to Bertans at this point or even McBuckets.”

    Gallo and McDermott are both pretty washed, at this point. An argument could be made that Bertans is, too…….although he never really offered that much in the first place. I’ll keep beating the drum for Skapintsev.

    Cool Alan! The title has to be “To Serve Man”.

    “It’s a cookbook!”

    I didn’t sleep for a week as a kid after watching that episode live…

    It’s been bothering me the last few weeks that if Dallas hadn’t tanked we could have had Derek Lively and there would be no center problem. Dumb to even think about – who knows who we would have taken – but it was so egregious when it was happening I hate they got rewarded and we got screwed. We’re so close to having a dominant team.

    Congrats, Alan. Looking forward.

    Btw, my 13 year old son has now watched all episodes of the SIMPSONS and he recently asked my opinion on which is the “best” season. Together we sought your wise counsel online (from 2016) 😉

    Congrats Alan!

    Question for you: In your expert opinion, why have all of the Twilight Zone reboots and remakes struggled?

    I didn’t have a chance to weigh in on Bobby Marks saying that Randle should opt out and accept a 3yr/$100M extension. I think that’s preposterous, and if I was Randle’s agent I would tell Leon to go fuck himself. Marks implies that the Knicks have some leverage here, which they absolutely do not. Not to mention that they already missed out on being able to extend him in a way that would make him trade eligible this year.

    If I were Randle’s agent, I would advise him to just let the season play out and let the chips fall where they may, i.e. to bet on himself. My guess is that he is going to come in with an enormous chip on his shoulder after once again being dissed by “circumstances,” just like he did in 2022-23 to win back the fanbase after the thumbs down debacle. I am expecting that he is going to prove to the world that he is worth every bit of a $40+M AAV (around 22% of cap) extension with yet another all-NBA caliber season.

    And I think that although he will make every effort to be a good soldier in Brunson’s army (it’s in his best interest financially to do so), deep down the captain thing bugs him. He’s going to want to show the world that he’s the straw that stirs the drink. Obviously that could backfire, but we’re talking about a very prideful, sensitive, fiery guy who was riding the highest wave of his career only to have it come crashing down, and now has 2 players above him on the salary chart with a 3rd to come if he accepts that stupid Bobby Marks deal.

    I didn’t think the captain thing will bother him, but he’ll be looking at Markannen’s contact for sure. So $40m per year pretty much seems like a minimum.

    Werk, Alan! Congrats. Very dope. I’ve only recently stopped checking for gremlins ( in my mid forties) even though I know that’s what turbulence is.

    I also thought Marks’ $30 mil AAV offer was unrealistic, and as I said a few days ago, Leon doesn’t seem like a guy who would lowball a vet like that (he’s sort of the anti-Morey in many ways.)

    I think maybe Randle would go as low as 38 or 39 just to have security and stay in NY though — as long as he’s relatively close to what the other crucial players make/will make.

    I think a good compromise would be to have Randle opt in to the rest of his contract and then extend off of that. I believe that would keep us out of the second apron one additional year, which gives us the flexibility to make that final move if necessary, and also allows Randle to be fairly compensated. I’m in the camp that wants to see Randle in some “death lineups” before trading him.

    Was just looking at the France – Germany roster. For all the hype the French don’t really have too many name brand players. Frank and Evan being serious comtributors I find surprising.

    And congrats Alan! I still haven’t cracked the OC book (working on it!) but this seems like a super interesting project.

    I dunno… I think that Randles agent is not interested in the psychology of it all beyond the best monetary deal on the table, but Randles therapist and family and he likely is. While he might feel aggrieved by circumstance and whatnot, he could also cement a legacy that his child is currently enmeshed in. A legacy that money can’t buy. Buying in can prove equally as profitable in less fungible currency.

    It’s been bothering me the last few weeks that if Dallas hadn’t tanked we could have had Derek Lively and there would be no center problem.

    I had the same thought a couple weeks ago and Strat kindly reminded me that there’s absolutely no chance we would have drafted him. History indicates he is correct.

    Speaking of the draft, I saw Dadiet get votes for “biggest reach of the draft” on a recent Athletic poll. Kyle Filipowski got voted biggest steal, and he was right there for us two times.

    I think a good compromise would be to have Randle opt in to the rest of his contract and then extend off of that. I believe that would keep us out of the second apron one additional year,

    The extra year makes trading him 1-2 years down the line a lot harder, though. I think I’d rather be over the apron.

    Leon has absolutely turned the trick of making NY a place where players want to be. In the past we often said this *should* be the case, but it didn’t prove true, at least for some high profile free agents. So I suspect Randle wants to stay as long as possible, and I think the precedent of Brunson’s deal makes it more likely he will.

    I’m most afraid of Z-man’s suggestion that Randle might play hero ball and seek pointz to deserve 40+. Rather, if the stars align, and we have “sharing and caring” on the court, the winning will take care of any money he leaves on the table by increasing Randle’s endorsements etc. If his agent is smart, he should advise accordingly.

    Hell, Carmelo Anthony is still leveraging his time in NYC into lucrative deals (wine?!). If Randle helps win a few series, he’ll be golden.

    It’s been bothering me the last few weeks that if Dallas hadn’t tanked we could have had Derek Lively and there would be no center problem.

    But at least it’s nice to remember that the Knicks have graduated from consistently shooting themselves in the foot to worrying about stray bullets like this instead.

    “Werk, Alan! Congrats. Very dope. I’ve only recently stopped checking for gremlins ( in my mid forties) even though I know that’s what turbulence is.”

    I guess “Werk!” might be tantamount to “Good work!” or even “Good job!” with this little bit of extra context. The first time it was stated, it was as a word by itself without any content in terms of what was being referenced. Thank you, Clarence Beeks! 🙂

    Speaking of the draft, I saw Dadiet get votes for “biggest reach of the draft” on a recent Athletic poll. Kyle Filipowski got voted biggest steal, and he was right there for us two times.

    Waaaayyyyyy too early to think about this at all. The French kid was raw as hell, but he’s a kid. Reaching on the most valuable player type is the kind of draft move we’ve been hoping these guys would make. It will be 2 years before we know what we have. If he’s not a bust, he’s very valuable and either great trade bait or good wing insurance with room to grow into a starter. I don’t hate the move, even though it carries real risk.

    Filipowski looked like Kaminsky 2.0 to me… Not worth the weirdness around his whole situation.

    “I’m most afraid of Z-man’s suggestion that Randle might play hero ball and seek pointz to deserve 40+. Rather, if the stars align, and we have “sharing and caring” on the court, the winning will take care of any money he leaves on the table by increasing Randle’s endorsements etc. If his agent is smart, he should advise accordingly.”

    I’m not really worried about that specific concern. I think Randle is smart enough to know that being a selfish player on an unselfish team would not play well in the NYC media and with fans.

    I’m optimistic that he will go back to doing what he was doing in January before he got hurt…25-8-5 in 35 mpg on a .589 TS% on 28-30% usage. He is going to be a force.

    I tend to avoid looking into other people’s souls, as it’s hard enough to look into my own, but if I had to guess I don’t think Randle will be that put out about the captaincy. I do worry a bit if he’s playing for his next contract, as All-NBA and the like are as much about pointz as anything. That can lead to some poor decision-making, which is a thing Randle is prone to doing.

    I think there’s an equal likelihood he just totally buys into the ‘new team’ thing and works to fit in seamlessly. It’ll be one of the more interesting story lines for the upcoming season.

    The Knicks’ leverage vis-a-vis Randle is simple. As of now, here is the complete list of teams that project to have significant cap space in 2025: Brooklyn.

    Brooklyn isn’t signing Randle, we don’t have to talk about it. They just got their own picks back and clearly want to engage in exactly the kind of multiyear rebuild a floor-raiser like Randle would complicate.

    Randle will also be 30 next offseason, so it won’t be a “steal a good young player and let the dominos fall where they may” situation. Any team that signs him needs to:

    1) want to win games now
    2) think Randle at $30M+ AAV is the best available way to help them do so
    3) have the cap space to make such an offer, or the ability and willingness to create it

    It’s not exactly a long list. In fact, right this second it almost feels like the Knicks are the only team that clearly check all the boxes. If you’re Randle/his agent, $100M on top of $160M in existing career earnings might be more attractive than hoping some as-of-now unidentified team wants to move heaven and earth to sign him.

    Congrats Alan! There’s no one more qualified to write that than you.

    Can Yabusele be our human trade exception?

    I’m not really worried about that specific concern. I think Randle is smart enough to know that being a selfish player on an unselfish team would not play well in the NYC media and with fans.

    I’m not sure I share your optimism….historically, the surest way to get paid is with counting stats (points and rebounds). Playing for a contract sort of incentivizes scoring.

    Can the resident CBA scholars simplify something for me?

    Let’s say we can’t come to an agreement with Randle on a new contract, and let’s say there are no cap space teams that want him. If the only option to get him on a new team is a sign and trade, what are the current constraints on both us and on the team receiving him in terms of salary in/salary out, hard caps, et al.?

    I’m optimistic that he will go back to doing what he was doing in January before he got hurt…25-8-5 in 35 mpg on a .589 TS% on 28-30% usage. He is going to be a force.

    Yeah, I hope this is exactly the case. I suppose the complication comes if the wins don’t. Then there’s noise about why, who is not getting enough touches, and so on. Our “high character” guys should navigate such problems well, but everyone has an ego (and an opinion).

    In other news: I didn’t see any of the summer league games, but I just read the breathless piece linked above — comparing Deuce and Kolek.

    Did the rookie *really* look good enough to justify big minutes this year? The piece also opines that Deuce worked his best off ball, so could they both ever play in a second unit, even though Hart and Devo will likely be ahead of them off the bench? We seem so deep. I hope we don’t need all those guys.

    Why has Gobert played so little?

    i read an article yesterday that the coach thought he was stinkin up the joint and he was getting benched…

    We had it all wrong with Frank…we all loved him but we’d just have to hate the team he plays for and voila he makes winning plays, rebounds, scores…and he’s closing now for France.
    Edit: on bench now, Germany instantly comig back

    TNFH, That cap space list isnot comforting. First, things change. A team that wants Randle can figure out how to acquire him either by dumping salary and creating space or doing a sign and trade, even a 3-way trade with BKN or another team facilitating. Second, the leverage is in losing Randle even if he turns out to have made a bad decision without any way to replace his production. I have yet to hear your plan for replacing him in a way that doesn’t waste at least two years of the Nova Core contender plan. Nor have I heard your prediction for what Randle’s 2026-27 salary will be, you know, when he’s washed up at age 32.

    I mean, Morey just signed 34yo Paul George to a 4yr/$212M extension. You have already insinuated that Randle was in “physical decline” well before this, and clearly that was proven dead wrong. So now, no one is going to want to pay him $40M AAV for his age 31-34 years? Sorry, I’m not buying that.

    I’m sure Randle’s agent knows that the Knicks can’t risk having an all-NBA player in his prime walk for nothing. I would tell Leon to stick his lowball offer up his ass and then go out and kick the league’s ass like he was doing after last season’s slow start. There is zero chance that I would opt in and then negotiate, as you have suggested. If it doesn’t work out, c’est la vie.

    “I’m not sure I share your optimism….historically, the surest way to get paid is with counting stats (points and rebounds). Playing for a contract sort of incentivizes scoring.”

    Randle is going to score and rebound. That’s a big part of what he does. He will also continue to rack up 5+ assists and 3+ TOVs. That in and of itself doesn’t make him selfish. Selfish is ignoring wide-open teammates and taking ill-advised shots, grousing about role and touches, etc.

    Well sadly Berlioz, Debussy and Django won…am taking Wagner against Gershwin and Elington in bronze game😅🤗

    “Did the rookie *really* look good enough to justify big minutes this year?”

    Not really. But he did look good enough to be in a position to earn “considerable” minutes. If he actually gets “big” minutes, it probably means that the season is a disaster.

    Z-man, I think you’re underestimating how much work it’s going to take for Randle to get back into the swing of things and find his place in the team. Randle has shown us how long it takes for him to get his rhythm back after injury, and I think this season will be no different. I think he will have his best season yet because of that. He’s going to start really slow and the team can more than make up for that production in the regular season. But hunting a contract is going to be difficult if you are shooting 30% from three for half the year. Maybe I’m just a silly optimist about how healing journey’s can change perspective, but the work he did to find himself after the Thumbs down and then the physical stuff should not be discounted.

    I’m all about that Debussy but he wasn’t playing. Verdi has my little boy heart still.

    CB shoulder injuries and surgeries are tricky, but since it’s his right (i.e. off) shoulder, and since he will have lots of time to rehab it, I think there’s a better chance of him hitting the ground running than there was coming off of ankle surgery in a shorter time frame. In any event, if I were Julius, I would be really fucking pissed if Leon raised that during contract negotiations. And I think that any GM would discount any acclimation period early in the season in determining his value. Just my opinion!

    I hope you’re right… Bodies are tricky things and trauma has funny ways of fucking things up. He’s going to have to become comfortable putting that shoulder into and taking contact from 220+ lb players.

    The injury conversation should always be a part of the bottom line and Randle’s agent’s job is to have that shitty conversation without letting it ruin his clients ability to perform and make money foreveryone who’s invested in his performance.

    Who you taking, Puccini or Wagner? I’m in the Wagner camp.

    Puccini, and its not even close. Who has ever put three consecutive arias together like Che Gelida Manina, Mi Chaimano Mimi and O Soave Fanciulla and then throw in a comic farse like Quando M’en Vo in act two?

    Puccini is God… and he wrote the best parts for women….

    I think Randle’s last injury report is dated 20 May (the surgery) and says “he’ll be re-evaluated in five months” That’s like opening night, so who knows what will be going on at tipoff.

    Likewise, there is uncertainty on Mitch, OG, Brunson, even Hart’s torn ab and Deuce’s little toe or whatever. We may be a bit ragtag this fall for a while.

    On Kolek, thx Z-man. I wonder if Thibs will have the rookie run the 2nd unit offense by design. That’s prolly dependent on his D in practice, i.e. the “earn” part as you say. I also wonder if/what Deuce is practicing. Is there a tear drop in his future?

    I’m hoping that Deuce is practicing getting tangled up in Porzingis legs.

    “I think Randle’s last injury report is dated 20 May (the surgery) and says “he’ll be re-evaluated in five months” That’s like opening night, so who knows what will be going on at tipoff.”

    According to this article, his surgery took place April 9.

    If the only option to get him on a new team is a sign and trade, what are the current constraints on both us and on the team receiving him in terms of salary in/salary out, hard caps, et al.?

    There’s two parts to this, Mortimer.

    To execute the trade, the only constraint is matching salary on the other side. Let’s Team X wants to give Randle $45MM. They have to have be able to give us enough salary to make the trade work.

    The second part is more complicated. We actually have to want the matching salary they’re giving us. If they want to pay him $45M, but taking on matching salary would put us over the apron, we might not want to do it.

    “Who you taking, Puccini or Wagner? I’m in the Wagner camp.”

    Franz Wagner. Otherwise, couldn’t care less.

    I don’t have a plan to replace Randle. I don’t think we should be looking to do so. Losing him for nothing would be an utter disaster. He’s good and we need him.

    That said, no number of citations to old Randle takes will change the facts on the ground. If there’s a team you think will clear immense amounts of cap space to sign Julius Randle to a $40M AAV contract, name the team.

    Most people have no trouble holding these two thoughts in their head simultaneously:

    1) Randle is very good
    2) Randle presents most teams with fit issues because he’s a non-center who is a below average 3PT shooter

    I am aware you think any and all discussion of 2 is tantamount to saying Randle sucks or whatever, but try to understand that most people don’t feel that way. They feel it is just a dispassionate assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the player.

    All this to say, I have no idea how Leon will handle the situation. Maybe he’ll go ahead and pay Randle the big bucks even though it’s not the cold-hearted rationalist play. I certainly wouldn’t mind! I think the team as currently constructed is a contender by most reasonable definitions of the term, so if we simply keep it together that’s all good and well.

    Of course, it also wouldn’t surprise me if Leon tries to use the obvious leverage the league landscape, added sensitivity about ducking the aprons, Randle’s flaws, etc. gives him to try to sign him at something like the proposed Marks deal.

    As far as predictions go, I will say this: I will be shocked if Randle makes $40M AAV over a 3+ year deal for a team that is not the Knicks at any point in the future.

    KBA, the two things I saw last season that surprised me was Deuce’s tear drop and his pull-up jumper around the foul line in traffic. Not often, but when it happened it was jarring in its unfamiliarity (I don’t remember either occurring in previous years), and it also worked most of the time.

    I really believe he’s either copying Jalen religiously, or Jalen has taken him under his wing to show him how to pull off moves like that. I’d love to see a reporter (ahem) look into the possible mentor story (or at least the ‘copy the star’ story). It’d make a nice piece.

    “On Kolek, thx Z-man. I wonder if Thibs will have the rookie run the 2nd unit offense by design. That’s prolly dependent on his D in practice, i.e. the “earn” part as you say. I also wonder if/what Deuce is practicing. Is there a tear drop in his future?”

    My gut feeling is that Thibs will employ a 9-man rotation, with Kolek being spotted in for some second quarter minutes early on and then going up or down depending on load management, injuries, etc. I think the “10th man” role will be “sort of” his to lose going into the preseason, but that there’s a very good chance he loses it to Payne.

    Meaning that unless either Deuce regresses (or Kolek absolutely shocks), he will be our backup PG.

    I mentioned this before, but an additional hope is that there will be more garbage-time minutes for guys like Kolek, Dadiet, and maybe one of McCullar or Hukporti to get some run. Especially Kolek.

    According to this article, his surgery took place April 9.

    Ah good. It’s the ESPN injury status thing I’m quoting, which is in turn quoting Begley, so maybe the dates are off. One month earlier is one month better.

    “To execute the trade, the only constraint is matching salary on the other side. Let’s Team X wants to give Randle $45MM. They have to have be able to give us enough salary to make the trade work.

    The second part is more complicated. We actually have to want the matching salary they’re giving us. If they want to pay him $45M, but taking on matching salary would put us over the apron, we might not want to do it.”

    Thanks, Hubert! Am I correct in thinking that if the hypothetical trade occurred with a second apron team, the $45M they send back would have to be tied to a single player?

    If there’s a team you think will clear immense amounts of cap space to sign Julius Randle to a $40M AAV contract, name the team.

    I would expect the following teams would be interested in Julius Randle at $40M or more if he’s coming off a great year:

    Washington, Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, San Antonio, the Clippers

    All of them either have the cap space outright or could easily create it with one or two simple salary dumps.

    I don’t have a plan to replace Randle. I don’t think we should be looking to do so. Losing him for nothing would be an utter disaster.

    Once you admit this, any argument that Randle should take less than what the Knicks can pay him seem pretty silly.

    “That said, no number of citations to old Randle takes will change the facts on the ground.”

    This is correct, so long as you separate facts from opinions. You are not doing that.

    “If there’s a team you think will clear immense amounts of cap space to sign Julius Randle to a $40M AAV contract, name the team.”

    I can think of lots of teams that can use an all-NBA player in his prime making $20-22% of the cap, and a much lower percentage of the first and second apron cap limits, and that might force the Knicks to either sign-and-trade Randle or lose him for nothing. You are demanding that I go through every team, identify specific teams that can use such a player, and then predict the moves that they would make to acquire such a player. This is where your “facts on the ground” argument meets a roadblock. The only fact on the ground right now is that Randle is a rare 2X all-NBA player in his prime who might hit the open market. My opinion is that there are a number of teams who would love a chance to entertain that possibility.

    Of course, it also wouldn’t surprise me if Leon tries to use the obvious leverage the league landscape, added sensitivity about ducking the aprons, Randle’s flaws, etc. gives him to try to sign him at something like the proposed Marks deal.

    It’s certainly possible that Leon will try to use whatever leverage he can to lowball the guy who you just admitted that losing would be “an utter disaster.” Whether he does or not, how likely is it that he will succeed in signing a Bobby Marks-level deal?

    “As far as predictions go, I will say this: I will be shocked if Randle makes $40M AAV over a 3+ year deal for a team that is not the Knicks at any point in the future.”

    This is a cop-out answer, isn’t it? If the Knicks pay him that much, we will obviously never be able to test what he might have gotten elsewhere, just like we can’t test that out for OG. So rather than duck the question, just commit to a figure! It’s easy! Just build in the possibility that he will get that money from the Knicks! Of course, that would suggest that Julius did in fact have all the leverage in the negotiations.

    I honestly didn’t think there could be a bigger misread than “OG Anunoby has us by the balls bc so many teams are dying to max a complementary wing who misses 50% of his games”, but “no one in the NBA wants to pay Julius Randle market value” probably does it.

    Bobby Marks
    @BobbyMarks42

    Here’s the list of teams with significant cap space in 2025:

    – Brooklyn

    That’s what New York and other teams with key free agents next offseason are competing against.

    The Nets own 3 of Knicks future picks after 25 , I think they could offer him a deal

    if US loses this…Kerr is going to get some heat and spin it just like he did when we lost to Germany in the worlds’

    If Serbia beats the US it will seal my view that Kerr is the most overrated coach of all time and maybe Jokic should start being included in the GOAT conversation. Speaking of GOATS, even as a diehard Federer fan, I have to concede that Djokovic is the GOAT. I can’t believe what he’s doing at his age.

    I think he’ll be in the discussion when it’s all said and done regardless, but winning a gold this year would be a unique and extremely legitimate GOAT credential. A non-US gold medal as a team’s best player is in some ways more impressive than an NBA championship as a team’s best player if we’re being honest.

    The difference between Randle and OG is that Randle’s impact on winning is lower than implied by his boxscore stats and OG’s impact on winning far exceeds his boxscore stats. IMO people around the NBA understand that even if beat writers, fans, and all-NBA Team voters don’t. That’s what impacts discussions about salary.

    Much more relevant is Randle’s value to the Knicks winning a championship.

    We don’t need Randle’s rebounding and playing making. We’ll take it, but we have a lot of good rebounders relative to position and several good playmakers relative to position.

    What we don’t have is a clearly defined 2nd scoring option behind Brunson. That’s where Randle comes in.

    If Mikal can handle that role (that’s a ?), then moving OG to PF, Bridges to SF and DDV to the starting lineup is VERY viable. That lineup could potentially be better than with Randle. But it’s far from clear Bridges can handle that higher usage level and remain efficient. We’ll know by the trade deadline.

    Point being, Randle’s exact salary is almost irrelevant. We are not at that stage anymore. Pay the man and stay under the apron . The End.

    We either need him to contend or we don’t. If we do, then you work with him to try to stay below the dreaded 2nd apron but keep him happy. End of story. That’s not going to be that hard. If we find we don’t need him, then who cares? Keep, move him to get a C etc.. Whatever works best.

    OG had us by the balls. That’s why we had to pay him what we did.

    Actually that misconception is why we paid him what we did. Similar misconceptions about Randle are leading some to erroneously think we can force him to accept an insulting offer.

    How about we identify the team that wanted to max OG? Morey might have been desperate enough to do it if PG had gone back to LA but once that blew up in his face, where was his max contract coming from?

    Identify that team.

    My understanding is that OG’s extension started at $36.6M, which is 20% lower than the $42.3 max starting salary any other team could offer him, an that his $212M total over 5 years is well less than the $245M max we could have offered him. If he had Leon by the balls, it doesn’t seem like he got paid like it.

    But it’s the OG deal that now puts Julius in the position to have Leon by the balls, or nipples, or whatever. When one says that losing him would be an utter disaster, that speaks for itself. Any agent knows this, and will leverage it as necessary to get a favorable contract.

    I think Detroit would’ve vastly preferred OG to Tobias Harris if we tried any funny business with him

    This would be worse than ’04, considering all the fanfare that went into getting this group together.

    Jokic looks highly motivated.

    I do think Manu fails to get the credit he deserves. Always surprises me.

    Djokovic is the goat by the numbers and they’re so close in every way but those comebacks just really seal the deal. If we’re playing tennis at the final moment against unicrom and we need a strong hand on racket I still might go Nadal.

    LeBron and Steph really should do at least one team up year while they’re both still in their old man primes.

    Steph, KD, LeBron, Embiid + take your pick
    vs.
    Jokic, and pretty much nobody in the all-time great conversation.

    Serbia would need to build a statue of Jokic the size of the Eiffel Tower if he pulled that one off.

    Alas, all ended as it should.

    “Thank goodness”

    I am pretty sure that “goodness” had nothing to do with the win.

    Djokovic is the goat by the numbers and they’re so close in every way but those comebacks just really seal the deal. If we’re playing tennis at the final moment against unicrom and we need a strong hand on racket I still might go Nadal.

    I think Nadal was the tougest mentally if that’s what you are implying, but he wasn’t as consistently elite on grass and hard court as the other two. Those other two were also elite on clay. They just happened to run into the greatest clay player ever or they’d have another four wins in the French each. I have to rate Nadal a hair below the other two

    I think Detroit would’ve vastly preferred OG to Tobias Harris if we tried any funny business with him

    Maybe, if OG was willing to take 2 years.

    Detroit has over $40M in cap space this summer, btw. And they can likely clear another $50M if they wanted to.

    If you try anything funny with Julius Randle, they’re a mortal lock to step in and pay him. They’ve been looking for a floor raiser for years (not an always injured complementary wing).

    Strat, you keep making the same statements, and I tend to skip over them since they’re repetitious, but since the times when I do read them I think the same things, I’ll say them once and then leave it alone.

    I get why you think OG is more important to winning than Julius, but it’d be super-easy to prove the opposite, or at least find ways to say that Julius is incredibly important to winning. So I don’t really buy that.

    Here’s what we do know. Assuming his shoulder isn’t attached by scotch tape now, Julius is an automatic 25-10-5. There is nobody on the team who can do that. In fact, I’m having trouble thinking of any #2 on any NBA team who can do that (I guess the Lakers…). I’m pretty sure that contributes to winning.

    And OG is not a power forward. He can absolutely play power forward, and defend a significant number of power forwards out there. But he’s also 6’7″ and 230 pounds, which is quite small for the position (there’s a study out there that says the average NBA ‘forward’ is 6’7″ and 222, which combines 3s and 4s). I would hate for him to be our only PF, as he’s really a tweener. He’s also subject to wear and tear, and PF is possibly the ultimate banger position. So sure, run him at the 4 when the matchups work, but full time feels like a losing proposition on multiple fronts.

    I can understand not playing Tatum. He has shot the Celtics out of a lot of games.

    I could also understand giving him Ant’s minutes.

    The legacy points that would have moved from America to Serbia with a different result really would have been astounding

    If Steph didn’t go all inferno, someone else would probably bail them out, enough qualitiy to go around…but all grandpa team with Embid is not a good look for team Usa and its future dominance.

    I don’t see how Detroit has anything close to $40M in cap space this summer, and I am nearly certain they would’ve gladly given OG 4 years based on all of the reporting that they were in fact eager to do so.

    So rather than duck the question, just commit to a figure!

    I have no idea what you’re asking me to do. Predict what Randle’s extension with the Knicks will be? He might not get one! My only strong opinion is that I don’t see $40M AAV over a 3+ year deal out there for him from another team, and if Leon Rose agrees I can see why extension talks have been slow-to-nonexistent.

    For the record (not that I haven’t clarified this a million times before), I strongly disagree with Strat and think it’s already clear we’re much worse off without Randle. The idea that we could Frankenstein his shot creation with OG and Mikal doesn’t pass the smell test.

    But a lot of teams would be worse off without a lot of guys. It doesn’t necessarily mean those guys get paid whatever they want. The market still dictates these things most of the time.

    Pay the man and stay under the apron

    Guys, the whole reason we’re having this debate is because this is actually a really hard thing to do! Just take a look at our obligations moving forward. If this could be done at a figure agreeable to Randle, it would’ve happened already.

    It’s a very simple, straighforward questio: What do you predict Randle’s salary will be in 2026-27, regardless of where he signs or whether it’s a 1-year deal, or part of a longer extension, or as a free agent contract, or the result of a sign-and-trade. No need to overcomplicate the question, it’s very cut-and-dry. If you are saying that you don’t know what I am asking, you are purposely being obtuse.

    I predicted $40M +/-2M. Simple, isn’t it?

    Geo, all hail! So glad you and your friend finally “reconnected.” Calling out your own name is pretty solid if it’s been many years in the desert, I think. Jowles does it even when it’s only been a couple days.

    JOWLES

    aaaaaand I’m off to an afternoon booty call

    May you fuck so much that you can construct rejection regions. Git it. Celebrate it. Fuck yo dick off and write a memoir about it.

    Didn’t realize Spoelstra was an assistant on team USA. Sounds like the coaching overall hasn’t been great and we’ve won purely by talent… But I haven’t seen any games. Maybe will try to watch the Finals.

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