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Knicks Morning News (2024.05.15)


  • Jalen Brunson drops 44 as Knicks blow out Pacers in Game 5 – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Wed, 15 May 2024 03:11:00 GMT
    1. Jalen Brunson drops 44 as Knicks blow out Pacers in Game 5
    2. NBA playoffs: Jalen Brunson dominates Pacers again to put Knicks on verge of conference finals
    3. Donte DiVincenzo on Knicks-Pacers scuffles in Game 5: ‘They’re trying to be tough guys’
    4. Magic Johnson Has New Nickname For Knicks Star After Game 5 Win
    5. Everyone did their part in this impressive Knicks win


  • NBA playoffs: Can Knicks and Wolves fight back in Game 5s? Who’s the postseason MVP? – Yahoo Sports
    [Yahoo Sports] – Tue, 14 May 2024 15:56:00 GMT

    NBA playoffs: Can Knicks and Wolves fight back in Game 5s? Who’s the postseason MVP?


  • Tom Thibodeau finally found common cause with Knicks. Will it be enough? – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Tue, 14 May 2024 13:00:00 GMT
    1. Tom Thibodeau finally found common cause with Knicks. Will it be enough?
    2. Josh Hart rips ‘idiotic’ Tom Thibodeau critics as Knicks injuries grow
    3. NBA Vet Rips Tom Thibodeau for Knicks Lineup
    4. Atlantic Notes: Thibodeau, Sixers, Raptors, Nets
    5. Josh Hart rejects ‘idiotic’ narrative that Tom Thibodeau ran Knicks into the ground


  • Billie Eilish, Common, Jennifer Hudson among star-stocked Knicks Game 5 – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Wed, 15 May 2024 01:49:51 GMT
    1. Billie Eilish, Common, Jennifer Hudson among star-stocked Knicks Game 5
    2. The Haves and Have-Nots: How the Knicks’ Celebrity Row Works
    3. Billie Eilish sits courtside with lovebirds Jennifer Hudson and Common at New York Knicks playoff game against
    4. Video Of Billie Eilish Went Viral At Pacers-Knicks Game
    5. Yankees catching playoff fever of Knicks and Rangers


  • Tracy Morgan blasts Draymond Green over Knicks ‘fluke’ take: ‘Dont talk crap about my team’ – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Wed, 15 May 2024 00:58:00 GMT
    1. Tracy Morgan blasts Draymond Green over Knicks ‘fluke’ take: ‘Dont talk crap about my team’
    2. Tracy Morgan Confronts Draymond Green On ‘Inside The NBA’
    3. Draymond torches Knicks fans’ ‘delusion’ after 2-0 series lead
    4. Comedian Tracy Morgan Calls Out Draymond Green for Critique of Knicks
    5. This New York Knicks playoff run might have some flukey elements, but it’s not a fluke


  • Disney Upfront Features a Kelce Hire, NFL Chatter and a Knicks Nix – Sportico
    [Sportico] – Wed, 15 May 2024 00:58:19 GMT

    Disney Upfront Features a Kelce Hire, NFL Chatter and a Knicks Nix


  • Knicks need raucous MSG crowd more than ever in Game 5 – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Tue, 14 May 2024 11:00:00 GMT

    Knicks need raucous MSG crowd more than ever in Game 5


  • Miles McBride’s Game 5 start pays off for Knicks – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Wed, 15 May 2024 05:43:00 GMT
    1. Miles McBride’s Game 5 start pays off for Knicks
    2. Starting Miles McBride pays huge dividends for Knicks, who are on cusp of Eastern Conference Finals
    3. Knicks changing lineup for Game 5, will start McBride in three-guard lineup
    4. Miles McBride Posts 17 | Highlights and Live Video from Bleacher Report
    5. McBride scores 17 points in first career playoff start


  • Scottie Pippen analyzed Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson’s struggle in NY – Basketball Network
    [Basketball Network] – Wed, 15 May 2024 02:15:00 GMT

    Scottie Pippen analyzed Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson’s struggle in NY


  • Tyrese Haliburton’s no-show Game 5 leaves Pacers on the ropes – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Wed, 15 May 2024 06:12:00 GMT
    1. Tyrese Haliburton’s no-show Game 5 leaves Pacers on the ropes
    2. Tyrese Haliburton’s Official Injury Status for Knicks vs. Pacers Game 5
    3. Banged-up Tyrese Haliburton showing plenty of heart after breaking out of slump vs. Knicks
    4. How Haliburton’s Injury Affected Game 5
    5. Pacers Notes: Haliburton, Nembhard, Nesmith


  • 2024 NBA playoffs – Bets, lines and stats for Tuesday – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Tue, 14 May 2024 17:20:00 GMT
    1. 2024 NBA playoffs – Bets, lines and stats for Tuesday
    2. NBA picks, odds, best bets for Pacers vs. Knicks and Wolves vs. Nuggets: OG Anunoby absence exposing New York
    3. Expert NBA Playoffs Best Bets and NBA Player Props – May 14
    4. Fantasy Basketball Picks Today: Top DraftKings NBA DFS Targets, Values for May 14
    5. Top NBA Playoffs Odds & Picks: Tuesday (5/14)


  • Alec Burks giving ailing Knicks some much-needed depth scoring: ‘True pro’ – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Wed, 15 May 2024 04:44:00 GMT

    Alec Burks giving ailing Knicks some much-needed depth scoring: ‘True pro’


  • Bill Simmons 3-Team Trade Proposal Reunites Mikal Bridges With Nova Knicks – Heavy.com
    [Heavy.com] – Tue, 14 May 2024 21:55:02 GMT

    Bill Simmons 3-Team Trade Proposal Reunites Mikal Bridges With Nova Knicks


  • Indiana Pacers 91 – New York Knicks 121: Final score, results, recap, box score, stats – Yahoo Sports
    [Yahoo Sports] – Wed, 15 May 2024 09:50:28 GMT

    Indiana Pacers 91 – New York Knicks 121: Final score, results, recap, box score, stats


  • Indiana Pacers vs New York Knicks – May 15, 2024 – FOX Sports
    [FOX Sports] – Tue, 14 May 2024 21:08:42 GMT

    Indiana Pacers vs New York Knicks – May 15, 2024

  • 221 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.05.15)”

    Playoffs Round 2 Game 5 – New York vs Indiana W 121-91 New York leads series 3-2

    This team is otherwordly, I love them and I’m in awe of what they’re doing in trying circumstances.

    In all honesty I was pretty positive before the game (There was magic in the night, as expected! 🙂 ), this team has infinite pride and and a reaction was to be expected, especially after the way the Pacers gang of fake tough guys behaved in Game-4.

    I know we’re not accustomed to watch our gutsy band of polite warriors rolling over and dying without a fight, so Sunday’s game let us all with a strange feeling, but the playoffs are a strange animal, they’re a game of adjustments where the only thing that matter is winning one “stage” no matter by how much, knowing that you need to find something new for the next one because the opponents are going to react.

    Like Thibs said in the presser “a thing works in a game and then it doesn’t and you have to work for a new one”.
    And, like Carlisle and his pitiful punks learned, he and his staff really went to work!

    1ST QRT

    We started slowly, the offense was bad and a little too Brunson-centric (he took the first 3 shots basically without making a single pass) and the defense a little scary because the Pacers were going to the rim with a single dribble repeatedly.

    The TV timeout did help (IND 16 NYK 9), the rest of the guys joined JB’s party and, in the middle of a 15-3 run that forced Carlisle to call three timeouts in the span of 2:08, J-Hart gave us the lead with a layup (IND 25 NYK 26) and then hit a corner three, followed by Deuce’s floater (after an Achiuwa’s steal) that sent the crowd in a frenzy.
    Alec Burks hit a corner three (on a pass from Precious!) to seal the 1st quarter with the Knicks up 38-32.
    The Pacers, despite all the emotions and fears that we obviously shared in the game thread, would never be so close again…

    2ND QRT

    … Because the 2nd was our best quarter. Jalen scored 18 to cap a 28-points half, we survived the Scott Foster show (Part 1) and went to the long break up by 15 (IND 54 NYK 69).

    3RD QRT

    Our sleepy start was the last real scary moment of the game, as Myles Turner hit 3 bombs in a 64 seconds span (!!!) to cut the lead to 7, but a quick Thibs timeout restored order, our lead ballooned to 20-plus and when Donte took off for a devastating putback dunk the game was over (IND 64 NYK 86), despite Turner doing his cardboard fake guy schtick and Scott Foster scottfostering over and over…

    4TH QRT

    Thanks to another Knicks’ lazy start, the Pacers began the quarter with a 9-0 run capped by a Siakam’s three (IND 84 NYK 96), but Alec Burks hit the shot of the night, a well constructed corner-3 to calm down our guys and save the crowd an heartache. The last minutes were academy.

    SILLY THOUGHTS

    – The series is far from over, we just need another small miracle, but now the pressure is on the Pacers.
    Anyway I’m pretty sure our guys will not relax. Let’s try to steal the game in Indy and get some rest.

    – JB’s performance get the headlines, and deservedly so, but it was a great team win, with every survivor doing something to help the cause.

    – I loved the “wall of screens” we built yesterday but I’m pretty sure they’ll counter in the next game, Thibs needs another idea for Game-6 and I’m positive he’ll find one.

    – I’ve never seen a player play horribly for months and then resurrect like Alec Burks did this postseason (he shot 30.7% with a .383 EFG% and .420 TS% in 23 games as a Knick).
    I thought he was cooked and the last events showed I was WRONG.
    I’m not one to kick a gold bar when he finds one on the sidewalk, so I’m really happy I was wrong.
    Maybe it was really just the shoulder, anyway Thibs basically said Leon to re-sign him with his “ultimate pro” comment in the presser.
    I can live with it if he’s signed for the minimum, with the caveat that re-signing Burks is not a lucky charm (see summer 2021).

    – I can’t say enough bad things about the Pacers. Their best skill is luck or they’d be at home since the end of April.

    – Kudos to the Garden crowd for the “Julius Randle” chants, it was nice seeing him near the bench.

    – We all knew the players can’t be perfect but at the same time we suffer when, in the heat of the moment and/or clouded by adrenaline and fatigue, they do something “bad” (or dumb, or irrational).
    The game thread is a free zone boiling with the emotions, who follows the up & downs, the momentum shifts, the peaks and valleys of the game, all things that fade away when someone reads the boxscore or watch the game post hoc.
    It’s a quick, instintive, visceral, sometimes dumb and irrational reaction to something happening live, right before our eyes.
    Please be tolerant and understanding with your fellow KBloggers and their hot takes. 🙂

    – I’ll be grateful to Jeff if he’d punch his brother on the nose one of this day, he’s a joke (like many of the announcers this year, we’re really spoiled by Mike & Clyde).

    STATS OF THE GAME

    53-29 New York total domination under the boards (20-5 OREB)

    18-9 Indiana’s lead in turnovers. Bravo!

    22-19. The bunch of suckers in yellow shot more FTs than us and we were the home team! Carlisle’s work still paying off.

    PLAYS OF THE GAME

    3rd 5:31 Obi Toppin loose ball foul
    3rd 4:56 Obi Toppin out of bounds bad pass turnover
    3rd 4:36 Jalen Brunson misses 24-foot three point pullup jump shot
    3rd 4:34 Donte DiVincenzo offensive rebound
    3rd 4:34 Donte DiVincenzo makes dunk (IND 64 NYK 86)
    3rd 4:27 Donte DiVincenzo personal foul
    3rd 4:27 (04:27) [Pacers] REF-INITIATED REVIEW (CALL STANDS)
    3rd 4:27 Double technical foul: Donte DiVincenzo and Myles Turner

    I cheated a bit, skipping a couple of lines just to poke our friend Obi and his 35 seconds of welcomed gifts ;-).
    DDV’s shake shook the Garden from the foundations to the roof and when Turner started his second rate tough guy routine we all knew Carlisle had lost his kindergarden.

    4th 10:18 Pascal Siakam makes 25-foot three point shot (Aaron Nesmith assists) IND 84 NYK 96
    4th 9:59 Alec Burks makes 22-foot three point jumper (Miles McBride assists) IND 84 NYK 99

    Indy’s high watermark in the 4th, but Sir Alec put his fireman hardhat on and the blaze to bed.

    GRADES

    It’s easy and weak and insuline inducing, but everybody get an A+.

    From the coach to the players they all made great things, they all made mistakes, some of them shot well some of them couldn’t hit a barn, sometimes they made me scream with joy and sometimes with anger, but all the men in orange & blue with “New York” on the chest made me proud and teary-eyed… and they made my lost sleep worth it! 😉

    Today, tomorrow and forever LET’S GO KNICKS!

    A Max recap!

    Still exhausted and more than a bit hoarse last night — me screaming “Timeout, Indiana!” alone will take me a few days to recover from. What a night!

    I can live with it if he’s signed for the minimum, with the caveat that re-signing Burks is not a lucky charm (see summer 2021).

    But Burks was good! He didn’t have issues till he returned to NY with a bad shoulder while playing pseudo-PG

    Has any argument in the history of this board been as throughly debunked by reality as the “hustlebunny” one?

    Gotta take the L on the Alec Burks thing and hand it to Hubert. Granted I’m not sure we’re in any better position in terms of being 1 game away from the ECFs (!!!!!!!!!), but giving OG a few minutes more rest/hydration earlier in this series maybe means he’s still playing right now.

    Hats off to Burks, who has emerged from the dungeon and promptly shot 51.7/50/76.5 with a cool 71.5 TS on 23.5 usage and has not been obviously bad on defense. It’s not at all sustainable but we just need one more average performance from him and maybe that’s enough time for OG to return.

    indy is a young team with a lot potential to grow, but they are absolutely shook in the Garden. Not being a real x’s and o’s guy it was hard for me to see what the Knicks did that shut down the Indy offense, but there was none of that ping-pong ball movement that has killed us pretty much this whole series. Was it as simple as Deuce hounding Halliburton up the floor and TJ McConnell being sort of cold this game?

    Best thing about this win is that we survived an outlier hot 3 point shooting performance by Indy as well as a real stinker 3 point performance from Donte (who was great otherwise). With a mostly healthy Brunson, we need one more Donte’s inferno game of like 6/9 from 3 point range to put this thing to bed.

    Recaps are what kept me going as a fan of this team so many years ago, they’ll always have a special place in my heart. It kinda hits different now – what a fabulous ride we’re on!

    The DDV dunk and jawing with Turner followed by the absolute chef’s kiss comments afterwards may be my favorite little story line of the night.

    The guys didn’t seem super tired. Alec Burks’ jumper was beautiful. Deuce is absolutely not afraid of the moment and even Precious is feeling it a bit. This team suddenly looks a tad deeper.

    Some good Xs and Os stuff, and fun stats, from Windhorst and the Hoop Collective guys this morning. Just a couple:

    1. Because he’s so small, Deuce has rarely been used as a screener in the past. The most he’s had before in a game is, like, 9. Last night, he ran 23 ball screens, most of them to free up Brunson. That, as much as Deuce’s shooting and his defense on Haliburton, was a massive change from how we’ve played the last couple of games, and a great adjustment from Thibs and his staff.

    2. The last player before Hartenstein to get 12 offensive rebounds and dish out 5 assists in a playoff game was Moses freaking Malone — perhaps the greatest offensive rebounder in NBA history.

    And Frank, I think McConnell is for whatever reason a terrible matchup for Deuce on both ends, whereas Deuce able to completely upend Haliburton’s game, while Alan Bark’s size proved a more useful deterrent against all of TJ’s usual annoyingness.

    I posted this comment from DDV last night, and I’m sure it’ll be bulletin board material for the Pacers, but you know what? I don’t give a shit, he’s spot on

    Donte on the altercation with Turner:

    “they’re trying to be tough guys, that’s not their identity”

    It’s funny: from the stands (especially where I was, relatively high up in the lower bowl), it looked like Starks grabbing TJ’s jersey was some kind of tense moment. But when I finally watched the video this morning, it comes across as entirely playful, and McConnell is laughing as Starks lets go.

    Aw, thanks Frank. I’m just a fan, standing in front of a coach, asking him to love his bench.

    I thought Thibs did an outstanding job last night getting Precious involved with all those screens. Sometimes that’s all it takes. Everyone can do something, and bench guys typically seem to get inspired when they’re part of the action. Precious is a particularly difficult guy to work in but Thibs did it. Bravo.

    Best thing about this win is that we survived an outlier hot 3 point shooting performance by Indy as well as a real stinker 3 point performance from Donte (who was great otherwise).

    And some incredible court-tilting from Scott Foster! The league clearly sent a memo to those guys to silence all the complaints about MSG’s home court advantage.

    And some incredible court-tilting from Scott Foster!

    Every home crowd complains about the refs, but the amount of very vocal grousing and outright screaming about these calls — and the number of people mentioning Foster by name — felt extra intense in that regard. And it wasn’t even homerism: every time it was clear, either live or on replay, that we had actually committed a foul, the crowd quieted down and accepted it. But there was just So. Much. Bullshit., and the fans weren’t having any of it.

    Brian and Bruno were on it, but the Pacers have the weakest makeup of any team I can remember. Even their coach knows it, otherwise he would not have used 3 timeouts in 2 minutes. He knows that they can just fall apart if the other team has 3 good sequences. It’s incredible.

    The Knicks have now officially progressed further than they did last year.

    More regular season wins. Higher end of the season standing. More playoff wins.

    Of course real progress will be closing these fuckers out on Friday or, worst case, on Sunday and going to the ECF for the first time in 24 years.

    But such a good response by the team last night and now we get that extra day of rest.

    Miles stepped up. Burks stepped up. And yes, if Burks will take the vet minimum, bring him back.

    iHart was an absolute beast last night and lost in all the role players stepping up was another MONSTER Josh Hart playoff game.

    So proud of these guys.

    “It’s funny: from the stands (especially where I was, relatively high up in the lower bowl), it looked like Starks grabbing TJ’s jersey was some kind of tense moment. But when I finally watched the video this morning, it comes across as entirely playful, and McConnell is laughing as Starks lets go.”

    Starks? Huh?

    And Frank, I think McConnell is for whatever reason a terrible matchup for Deuce on both ends, whereas Deuce able to completely upend Haliburton’s game, while Alan Bark’s size proved a more useful deterrent against all of TJ’s usual annoyingness.

    That’s definitely what I saw, as well. Although with Halliburton I think you have to throw in the possibility that maybe he just gets psyched out on the road. He could flip around the Deuce matchup in Game 6 and I wouldn’t be surprised. But McConnell’s lack of advantage against Burks seems quite real.

    Doogie, on one play in the second half, McConnell went out of bounds trying to save the ball or something, right along the baseline where John Starks and most of the other OAKAAK guys were sitting. Starks stood up and grabbed McConnell’s jersey for a moment. But it was apparently all in fun.

    “Brian and Bruno were on it, but the Pacers have the weakest makeup of any team I can remember. Even their coach knows it, otherwise he would not have used 3 timeouts in 2 minutes. He knows that they can just fall apart if the other team has 3 good sequences. It’s incredible.”

    I dunno, this seems overstated to me. The first two games were nip and tuck, and we eked out a couple of wins. They came from behind and fended us off in crunch time in game 3, then utterly destroyed us in game 4. Thibs made some adjustments, Brunson had an MVP-level game, and all the role players stepped up in game 5.

    They knocked off a wounded but still solid Bucks team and haven’t lost a home game yet.

    I don’t get why posters would disrespect them just because we did to them in game 5 what they did to us in game 4. My guess is that we will have our hands full in closing them out. Hope I’m wrong!

    I’ll also agree that TJ looked bothered by Burks’s size.

    Remember when the Knicks were called for 5 fouls in just over a minute yesterday. Seriously messed up reffing. And they won by 30!

    I just am not ready to be done with this team for the year. I’m greedy and want a few more games.

    Despite his uneven shooting in this playoffs, I have to shout out DiVincenzo, who’s quickly becoming of my favorite players. I really feel like his instigation last game and how unbelievably hard he was going on every play was a big factor, the Pacers were shook by the level of intensity. He’s like Pat Beverley if Beverley was a good NBA player and not an asshole. As good as Hart and Brunson are, it feels like out of the 3 DiVo is a bit of the emotional leader on the court.

    RE: Burks

    I didn’t expect much from Burks (and luckily I was wrong, yeah!), but I was in favor of trying him or Shake or whoever given the status of our MASH roster.

    To me the Dungeon aka the SREP (Siberian Resort for Exiled Players) is not the optimal way to use team’s assets, especially during a gruesome regular season.

    Kudos to Thibs for steering from his usual ways (and honestly it’s not the first time this year, J-Hart is probably right, he’s mellowing 🙂 )…

    1-Duce looked so fast off the screens and offensive rotations and played all the passing lanes perfectly. With OG out it’s so imperative that this happens. There was one particular play I remember in the 3rd where Duce denied the pass to Hali for a good 10 seconds then funneled him into help (Hart coming out on Siakim and iHart rotating back to cover paint) and forced Hali to heave this wild cross court pass into an easily contested 3.

    2-Duce and Arec Bronkz opened up the floor spacing since they can’t trap Brunson and not get punished, and if they try to 1v1 Brunson he got such easy layups it was a joke. Indiana looks so bad on D most nights I don’t think there’s a fix that Rick can run outside of just going straight zone but they seem to just either not give a shit on D or refuse to communicate.

    I don’t get why posters would disrespect them just because we did to them in game 5 what they did to us in game 4. My guess is that we will have our hands full in closing them out. Hope I’m wrong!

    I’m disrespecting them because they’re doing this with 95% of their health against a team down 3 starters and a key bench player. I’m 100% convinced this series is a sweep with equal injury luck, well, it wouldn’t even be a series because they would have lost to Giannis last round.

    Kudos for them on their wins, I guess, but the trash talking and the attitude in game 4 just rubbed me the wrong way. It really feels like when the Suns were skipping around and talking shit against the Mavs when they were up and quieted immediately and folded when they got punched back.

    +1 Bruno

    I still can’t believe Foster called that Jackson screen on Donte to be a common foul. That appeared to be a very clear forearm shiver to Donte’s head that IMO could have easily been called a flagrant 2 (despite what Antonio Davis used to get away with back in 1994) (and by the way, Donnie, I was still in high school back when you were in Indianapolis and I didn’t even know what the internet was!).

    Btw the funniest part of that whole thing is everyone thought it was Burks’ hand on Jackson’s face but it was clearly Hartenstein’s. Burks put his hand on Isaiah only. He was playing peacemaker and Foster gave him a tech anyway.

    Look I’m not saying Scott Foster is Tim Donaghy, but if he were trying to keep that game close for nefarious reasons he would have done exactly what he did last night.

    I’m disrespecting them because they’re doing this with 95% of their health against a team down 3 starters and a key bench player. I’m 100% convinced this series is a sweep with equal injury luck, well, it wouldn’t even be a series because they would have lost to Giannis last round.

    Kudos for them on their wins, I guess, but the trash talking and the attitude in game 4 just rubbed me the wrong way.

    100% Agreed

    Not much to respect in someone who beats a man who has an arm tied behind his back and taunts him.

    Jesus Hubie, I hate saying you’re right, but I just played that clip like eight straight times, and it does indeed appear to be iHart’s backhand push to Jackson’s neck area. At the time I thought it looked weird, like Burks slid his arm through iHart’s, but it’s just iHart. While Burks is tugging at him from behind.

    Jesus Hubie, I hate saying you’re right

    You’re in the right club! 😉

    I see Indy as a very young team that is getting their first taste of the playoffs. Their rotation has 6 guys who are 24 and younger. The brashness is definitely annoying (especially Hali’s stupid headshaking and disrespecting DiVo). Siakam and Turner were never my cup of tea, and McConnell has always been, as Mike Breen would put it, an irritant.

    I just disagree with the characterization of them as having “the weakest makeup of any team I can remember.” They aren’t really contenders and have had some good injury luck to get to this point, but they’re a pretty good young team and have played very well given their talent level. Hali is only 24 and was destroying the league before he got banged up mid-year, and he is still pretty banged up, so for me, it remains to be seen who the real playoff Hali is. He would do well if he stopped trying to be Reggie Miller.

    Look, I don’t disagree Z-Man, I don’t think anyone is saying the Pacers are a bad team or ignoring that they have a lot of potential. But compared to how even the Sixers, a team long talked about as mentally weak, fought incredibly hard on their series against us, the Pacers feel like a step down in intensity. The games they won were a lot more because of things just clicking for them on the court instead of them grinding it out.

    I’ll give them props once this series is over, but right now I really just want the Knicks to keep them quiet.

    and McConnell has always been, as Mike Breen would put it, an irritant.

    McConnell is the one guy on that team that I like, lol. Because, yes, he’s an irritant but he’s earned that role and he isn’t obnoxious. Just a good player. He’d be a NICE bench piece for us, no doubt, and would fit in well in our culture I think. Not that I’m advocating for him.

    McConnell is the one guy on that team that I like, lol.

    Agreed. I hate him as an adversary, but he has my respect.

    There’s not much else you can tip your hat at in that whole Pacers team

    where John Starks and most of the other OAKAAK guys were sitting.

    By most, do you mean everybody but Rick Carlisle?

    It feels like months since OG’s injury and it’s less than a week… 🙁

    McConnell would fit this Knicks team quite well, except for the lack of 3pt shooting which they can’t afford.

    On the Pacers’ weak makeup: this is different than being a weak team. Throughout the season, they just seemed to fold at any hint of adversity. And they love to showboat when they are ahead. They got here by playing a Bucks team without its two main players, and a depleted Knicks team, and act as though they are world beaters.

    Hali is good, no question about that, but he also has huge flaws. He can’t go left, his shot comes and goes. But primarily, he is basically unable to play defense. Would you rather have him or Brunson going forward, age included?

    Indy’s best defender this playoffs have been injuries to their opposing team.

    The incredible thing about Brunson last night is that he had an efficient 44, and yet it looked like he missed a bunch of bunnies (no pun intended) in the second half. He wasn’t even in his top form, and this is what he did. Incredible.

    They have a size advantage over us and still got mercilessly crushed on the boards in a key playoff game. We basically hustlebunnied them into oblivion yesterday.

    he is basically unable to play defense

    And wasn’t defense one of his supposed strengths as a draft pick?

    We basically hustlebunnied them into oblivion yesterday.

    Lost in the good games by Brunson, iHart, McBride, Burks…Josh Hart had another amazing Josh Hart game. He’s been so huge for us these playoffs.

    I also feel as though Indiana has put their eggs in the wrong basket by getting Siakam. I just don’t see the fit. His lack of shooting is a big problem for them, and his interior presence doesn’t make up for it –
    teams would rather deal with his post-ups than chasing their players in the motion offense.

    But primarily, he is basically unable to play defense.

    It seemed like last night we finally woke up and realized these guys can’t defend for shit.

    And it doesn’t matter who they’re playing against. They had a 130.5 DRtg in a game against the Bucks where they started Beverley, Beasley, Middleton, Portis, Lopez and used Danilo Gallinari for 20 mins off the bench.

    They will be tough at home, but Brunson seems to have healed and Thibs made the necessary lineup adjustments. I think we’re locked in, and with the extra day off we’ll end this Friday.

    and Thibs made the necessary lineup adjustments.

    He probably reads Knickerblogger — the intellectual parts anyway.

    Josh Hart had another amazing Josh Hart game.

    That play where he hesitated yet again on taking a three, then took it, missed, crashed in to grab his own rebound and lay it in while three Pacers stood around helpless? That was the full Josh Hart experience in under 10 seconds. I love him so much, even with his flaws.

    Hart had one of his typical games where I kept yelling shoot the fucking ball at my TV but he wound up scoring enough.

    Really nice to have a big win without 3 point shooting luck and with the refs giving Indy a nice whistle. As a team the Knicks did a much better job of protecting the rim last night, hopefully they can take that on the road as well.

    “But compared to how even the Sixers, a team long talked about as mentally weak, fought incredibly hard on their series against us, the Pacers feel like a step down in intensity.”

    Again, I don’t really agree with this. We went up 3-1 on the Sixers and might have swept them if it weren’t for a 50-point effort from a hobbled Embiid gettijg away with murder, or won in 5 if it weren’t for two utterly ridiculous shots by Maxey. Harris is the softest max player who ever played, and Oubre Jr. is the ultimate punk who disappeared in some big moments. Lowry mostly didn’t show up after game 1. Reed was awful off the bench. Nurse whined his ass off. Embiid played extremely dirty and talked trash unnecessarily. We beat them twice on their home court. And Philly didn’t have the “untested young team” excuse. Now granted, we had OG, who made a huge difference, but it’s not like we ran away with the one game he fully played in vs. IND.

    I just think that too much emphasis is being placed on game 5 in characterizing Indiana. The first three games could have gone either way, and they utterly destroyed us in game 4.

    Tell you what, though. If we go into Indy and the Pacers go down without a fight, I’ll jump on the pile.

    I’m waiting to see the schedule scenarios but I have a feeling if Knicks win on Friday and obviously Boston has already beaten Cleveland the Conference Finals would start Sunday afternoon on ABC. That would suck for the Knicks rest wise especially assuming Boston finishes tonight.

    I do wonder why Hart’s become so hesitant again behind the line after he had so much success being aggressive when left open by Philly. I guess that’s par for the course in his career, where he has these stretches of being willing to shoot, followed by stretches where he’s gunshy. But you would think a guy with his confidence would be able to lean into what worked so well in Round 1.

    I think vs Indy since they’re so bad defensively he feels they can get a better shot than him shooting a 3 early in the shot clock.

    I see Indy as a very young team that is getting their first taste of the playoffs. Their rotation has 6 guys who are 24 and younger.

    I think they only have 5

    Siakam is about to turn 30 and might walk

    McConnell is a big part of their success and is 31

    They’ve got young guys out of the rotation with some potential but there’s no guarantees it amounts to anything or that it amounts to anything before the vets age out.

    They’ve got a defensive problem that won’t go away with age.

    Big Blue, according to Google the conference finals will begin next Wednesday regardless of how long either series goes.

    If Philadelphia had gotten a whole quarter of game 2 at MSG with no Brunson, zero Mitchell Robinson, zero Bojan, and just 1.5 games of OG, they probably would have beaten us senseless.

    Random thoughts while basking in the glow of that win:

    Yes, McConnell has gone from someone I wanted to plant a shovel in his brainpan to grudging respect. He seems to play the right way, tough as nails and as annoying as a nest of hornets, but he’s professional about it. Of course if he starts a fight Friday with Deuce I take it back (but I’d put my money on Deuce for that one, anyway).

    Meanwhile, a reverse 180 on Haliburton. From one of my favorite players to a real feeling of disrespect toward him. He’s just not shown up in this series, and when he has he’s been a jackass about it.

    My new working hypothesis is that Burks was really limited at the end of the season from the shoulder. Which means Thibs couldn’t play him, not that he was in the dungeon. I do believe the dungeon exists (although often Thibs is right to use it, see Reddish, Cam), but perhaps we should give the coach the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    Re Indiana’s rotation, would have been nice for both organization and player (and national fans) if Matheson hadn’t gotten hurt pre-playoffs.

    Donte on the altercation with Turner: “they’re trying to be tough guys, that’s not their identity”

    Turner’s not a tough guy? How can he say that? Just because he’s a Jehovah’s Witness who likes yoga, playing with legos, and dressing like this on draft night?…

    https://www.nba.com/pacers/gallery/2015-draft-pacers-pick-myles-turner

    This is 2024, Donte! People can be whatever they want to be, whenever they want to be it.

    A woman I know saw Josh Monday getting lunch at the Butterfield near the Met and told him she needed a big double double from him and he listened

    That’s good if it starts Wednesday regardless. I know ABC has a 3:30 NBA time slot for Sunday and in the past they’ve rushed starts of series just to meet that time slot obligation during the playoffs.

    What I love about that quote from DDV is that our guys are actual tough guys but mentally tough, who play hard as hell all the time and never give up, but they aren’t thugs, they don’t try to act tough or play dirty. And by playing so hard, all the time, they just end up annoying the shit out of other teams who then have to resort to these fake tough guy tactics.

    Swifty, I’d say that’s one of the two key differences between this team and the Ewing/Riley squads from the 90s. (The other is that Jalen Brunson is a vastly better offensive player than anyone from the 90s, Ewing included.) Those Knicks weren’t dirty in the way that the Bad Boy Pistons were, but they were going to put a hurt on you, nonetheless. If you want into the paint against Oakley or Mason, their fouls would not be pleasant, and it might make you less inclined to try that again. This current team isn’t exactly a bunch of choirboys, as we’ve seen both members of the Hart Foundation jostle and at times outright shove opponents out of the way in search of rebounds. But with this group, it seems less about hitting hard than simply playing hard. They exhaust opponents with their energy.

    “If Philadelphia had gotten a whole quarter of game 2 at MSG with no Brunson, zero Mitchell Robinson, zero Bojan, and just 1.5 games of OG, they probably would have beaten us senseless.”

    If Brunson shot 16-55 in the first two games vs. Indiana, there would have been three 30-point blowouts instead of one and the series would be over.

    “I think they only have 5”

    Sorry, I counted Obi by mistake. The point about having a young, inexperienced rotation remains, and they also have a promising player in Mathurin, and whatever Walker and Smith are, and at least some draft capital and a decent cap situation, so I would expect for them to both benefit from this playoff run and to make a move or two. It will be interesting to see what they do with Siakam.

    During the season I thought the Pacers were building something formidable but the playoffs have made me pretty apathetic about them.

    1) With the caveat that he may well be severely physically limited (more so than he was 48 hours ago, I guess), Haliburton seems destined to be a perennial “underperforms in the playoffs” guy. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong in the future, but he seems wholly uninterested in even trying to grab a playoff series by the horns.

    2) I felt this way when the trade was made, but not as strongly as I do now–the Pacers paid a star-level price for Siakam, who is closer to good than great. He’s too easy to game plan against for a guy who will probably be paid close to $50M AAV for his age 30-34 seasons. I’d be pretty upset about this if I were a Pacers fan.

    3) Turner is undoubtedly talented, but I’m not seeing a fringe DPOY contender despite that being his reputation. He’s too easy to body on the glass and all the blocks in the world don’t really seem to deter anyone from challenging him at the rim, often with success.

    The Pacers are hardly doomed, I think they’ve got a good amount going for them. They’ve got a whole slew of young, athletic guys who aren’t easy to go up against (i.e. Nesmith, Nembhard, Obi, Mathurin, Jackson, Sheppard, Walker). They’ll be in the playoffs for a while and maybe even make some ECFs.

    I don’t see championship potential though. The purported tentpole guys are just not Tentpole Guys, mentally and/or skill wise.

    My new working hypothesis is that Burks was really limited at the end of the season from the shoulder. Which means Thibs couldn’t play him, not that he was in the dungeon. I do believe the dungeon exists (although often Thibs is right to use it, see Reddish, Cam), but perhaps we should give the coach the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    The Wing/PG splits exist and put a major dent in this.

    “The other is that Jalen Brunson is a vastly better offensive player than anyone from the 90s, Ewing included.”

    I know I’m sounding particularly argumentative today, but I truly don’t agree with this take. Ewing was a great, great offensive player in a time where 40-pt games were much harder to come by, and against vastly superior competition.

    My guess is that a 27yo Patrick Ewing would be putting up astonishing numbers against this Indiana squad, and probably destroying the hobbled version of Embiid that we faced.

    The Pacers could still win this series and they probably have already exceeded expectations for the season, it’s probably too soon to be hard capping their future.

    Jalen Brunson is the best offensive player the Knicks have ever had? Better than Bernard? Certainly better than Melo.

    I don’t know, would be an interesting offseason thread

    I might’ve been the last person to leave Burks Island and even then I did so begrudgingly, but the play was so, so bad it eventually didn’t feel right to hide behind the small sample size.

    …but it remains possible he just had a really rough 311 minutes with us and is still pretty solid. Dude has been exactly what the doctor ordered these last few games.

    “The Wing/PG splits exist and put a major dent in this.”

    I totally agree that Burks is in no way, shape, or form a PG and it was a mistake to ever count on him in that role except maybe for spot duty. He is 100% a small wing, and best suited for being off the ball with limited creation.

    The problem is, McBride is also pretty much a small wing, or at best a defensive combo guard with very limited PG skills. I don’t think that Burks was the PG in his minutes as much as Burks and Deuce were sort of interchangeable. But Deuce was not capable of creating his own shot. Burks could sort of create, but was putting his head down and taking dumb shots without even looking to pass, and also missing every shot he created, so when they were both on the floor the team just couldn’t score. Maybe the shoulder had something to do with it, but I agree that a lot had to do with him being a round peg in a square hole.

    Does he live on the UES?

    I’m told Josh is a fan of Rembrandt and was lunching at Butterfield after contemplating “Aristotle with a Bust of Homer” at the Met.

    Great cap, Max. Knicks in Six!

    I think that Indy’s defensive rotations and execution are so porous that even a washed up hasbeen like Burks can torch them with open shot opportunity after open shot opportunity. I wouldn’t expect this type of performance against a remotely competent defensive team in the future should the team advance.

    The Burks debate should never have even been a debate. The only reason it was is that we all tend to put WAY too much weight on recent games without looking at the “why”.

    I’m not a huge Burks fan. I said as much when we made the trade. I think he’ll be gone after this season. However, he was still scoring effectively and efficiently enough in Detroit to think he could be a decent option to come off the bench for us, especially given his experience in NY.

    You don’t just wake up one day and become terrible.

    The fact that he wasn’t playing well for us initially may have been related to his shoulder injury or as Hubert pointed out repeatedly that he was being used incorrectly and would be more effective off the ball.

    I predicted before this series he was going to make his way into the lineup at some point and hit some huge shots. I just wonder if he would have gotten that opportunity if OG didn’t get hurt. In any event, if we win this series and OG comes back, we have another live bench piece.

    I know that we like to block the Hawks series from our collective memory, but it would do to remember that Alec Burks was one of our two good players that series, along with the reanimated corpse of Derrick Rose. Burks has also been good in the playoffs in Utah. He’s got some playoff equity when his shoulder is wholly attached to his body, especially on a team that desperately needs shot creation like we do.

    Indy has to play better on their home court on Friday. We took their manhood last night. And if they get last night’s whistle on their home court, they’re gonna be tough to beat. Haliburton has to be embarrassed. He has to play better.

    Howevs…

    72 hours of rest for our boys is a game changer. We’re tougher. We work harder. We fight more. We’re battle tested. We have Brunson. And Thibs is outcoaching Carlisle.

    Victory is gonna be found on the edges. And that’s where we thrive.

    Also: Burks has been a revelation. It’s frustrating that Thibs played him at point for so long, when his calling is clearly to catch-and-shoot. Playing him with Brunson has always made all the sense in the world.

    Let us say that Burks thrives in the playoffs moving forward. Does his production along with Bog’s production before the injury make the Grimes/two 2nd rounder trade worth it in your eyes?

    BBR has Burks at 80% SG/20% SF for this stint with the Knicks in the regular season (it almost said “stink” instead of “stint,” which would have somehow been appropriate).

    BBR has Deuce at 62% PG/39% SG for this season.

    I agree that Burks is not a PG, and should not be used as one. But based on this, why do we have the idea that Thibs tried to use him as one?

    Maybe the Pacers look better next year with a fully healthy Hali or Mathurin looks like the player he’s supposed to, but I just don’t see where “great” comes from. They’ll need to make a move for an outside player and need to fill a defensive hole a mile wide and 10 Myles deep.

    Of their young rotation players, Obi is 25, Nembhard is 24, and Nesmith is 24. They’re young in the sense that Indy has a long window, not in the sense that they have untapped upside.

    Definitely a good team, just not a great one.

    I agree that Burks is not a PG, and should not be used as one. But based on this, why do we have the idea that Thibs tried to use him as one?

    I think BKRef just goes by height or some other simple metric to determine position, not really sure. He was being used more as a primary shot creator or dribble penetrator than he seems to be now, playing off Brunson.

    I don’t 100% buy the argument, he may have just been injured, but it’s not really worth dissecting.

    Also worth mentioning, Jarace Walker played 340 min for the Pacers as the 8th pick in the draft. Obi Toppin played almost exactly twice that as a rookie at 683 min.

    Walker played more minutes in the g-league than the NBA.

    We’ve talked about how Obi got shafted out of minutes as a rookie, and that few lotto picks got the same treatment he did. Interesting that he’s now doing the same to another 8th pick.

    Ewing had 6 straight seasons where he was in the top 6 in scoring, in a league with Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem, Robinson, Dominique, and then Shaq and with rules that favored defensive players. He carried the offensive load for his team year after year deep into the playoffs against truly great competition. He had a great jump shot and probably could have extended out to the 3-pt line if that was a thing back then. I think he would have been very similar to Embiid in today’s game, i.e. utterly dominant on both ends when healthy and probably a 30+ ppg scorer.

    Thanks for the recap, Max. Great game and now the pressure is on Indy’s side, but this is far from over so we have to keep fighting and doing what we do so well.
    Or we crowdfund Alan and English_Knick to be at game 6 and the series is ours. 🙂

    Let us say that Burks thrives in the playoffs moving forward. Does his production along with Bog’s production before the injury make the Grimes/two 2nd rounder trade worth it in your eyes?

    I see it the same way I saw it when we made the deal.

    We added depth and needed scoring to the team for THIS playoff run at the potential cost of greater long term value even though we weren’t sure Randle could make it back (and he didn’t).

    I still think it’s fairly likely both Burks (expiring) and Bojan (salary filler replacing Fournier in a trade) will be gone after this season or at least by the trade deadline. Maybe Burks will play his way back at a cheap salary if he likes NY and Thibs.

    We don’t know how far we are going to get in this playoff run or what Grimes will eventually become long term, but I guess whether the joy of this run was worth giving up greater long term value even if we don’t go all the way is a personal thing.

    The nice happy middle ground here is that no, Burks did not belong in the dungeon. He should have been the next man up after Bojan went down instead of pushing OG.

    However, we all know OG could have gotten injured on that sprint even if he hadn’t been averaging 46 mpg.

    And even though Thibs deserved criticism for going to Burks one injury later than he should have, he also deserves credit for going to Burks before it was too late.

    Our coach is multi-faceted persona who we all love in our own way. Some praise him when he’s great, some kill him when he’s bad. But at the end of the day, we all know he was damn sexy in the 80s.

    “I agree that Burks is not a PG, and should not be used as one. But based on this, why do we have the idea that Thibs tried to use him as one?”

    As I said, he wasn’t used as a PG per se, but had PG-type responsibilities because he was out there with Deuce, who is not really a PG either. It’s less about being a PG in the traditional sense and more about being on the ball rather than off.

    wow…is that Tim Thomas on the end? He looks bigger than Herb…dude got bigger as he got older…

    It’s also worth noting that the crazy minutes have stopped since game 2. Now we’re just in a normal short rotation. Granted two of those games were blowouts but game 3 was close and Thibs played it differently. He also played last night better before it was out of reach.

    I had an interaction with a portuguese diehard Sixers fan on FCPorto’s forum (it’s our local team) following the game at MSG that the Sixers felt robbed. Although i don’t like the word robbed, i agreed we had a friendly whistle that time. But since then i have his twitter and this is what he tweeted (several days after we send them home, so with a clearer head) during this series against the Pacers:
    «One day we will look up the definition of competitive animal in the dictionary and there will be a photo of this Knicks team. It’s incredible what these guys have done in these playoffs.»
    A SIXERS FAN!! 😉

    “Let us say that Burks thrives in the playoffs moving forward. Does his production along with Bog’s production before the injury make the Grimes/two 2nd rounder trade worth it in your eyes?”

    Well at least it makes it a discussion. I assumed we were getting this version of Burks when I initially liked the trade, i.e. a version far better than the one Ben R was describing. But I also assumed a much better version of Bojan than what we saw. So in the sense that Burks is delivering what I initially expected at a critical time, if it continues I’d say it was definitely worth it, but would hardly call it the steal that all the pundits and analysts said it was at the time.

    So it’s $70 for a Pacers ticket in the nose bleed, $377 roundtrip flight, and $83 for a hotel:

    $67 + $377 + $83 = $527 Total

    Cheapest Knicks ticket = $570

    Guess you’re going to Indy, Alan

    Guess you’re going to Indy, Alan

    I’m in a dispute with Venmo, but if somebody wants to PayPal me the money, I’m on it.

    Love that Kyle O’Quinn — a very fun Knick from a very un-fun Knicks era — is mixed in with all those greats.

    “The nice happy middle ground here is that no, Burks did not belong in the dungeon. He should have been the next man up after Bojan went down instead of pushing OG.

    However, we all know OG could have gotten injured on that sprint even if he hadn’t been averaging 46 mpg.

    And even though Thibs deserved criticism for going to Burks one injury later than he should have, he also deserves credit for going to Burks before it was too late.”

    I would call these very reasonable and arguable perspectives, whether I share them or not.

    wow…is that Tim Thomas on the end? He looks bigger than Herb…dude got bigger as he got older…

    Yes, it’s Tim Thomas. He looks bigger, yeah, and he looks young. At first i thought “he looks younger than me”, but then i went to check his page and he is younger than, so that makes sense. LOL. But it’s not by much and i think he looks younger than his age (47).
    It’s so nice to see former players coming to the Garden to root for the current Knicks team. It feels like family! A very big Knicks family! 🙂

    Many reporters and columnists have written about how much the old Knicks have come to adore this particular team. It’s both in the way that they play — which, more and more, feels like the title team in style, even if the talent level’s not equal — and the very palpable joie de vivre among the players. I asked one of the beat writers if I’m blinded by recency bias and/or my own fandom in thinking that this locker room is special; they replied that it’s the best locker room they’ve ever covered, and it’s not even close.

    “I think BKRef just goes by height or some other simple metric to determine position, not really sure. He was being used more as a primary shot creator or dribble penetrator than he seems to be now, playing off Brunson.”

    LOL This can’t be the case, as then any given player would always only have one position, as their height doesn’t change. So there would be no such thing as “Burks at 80% SG/20% SF.” He didn’t *grow* into an SF in those 311 minutes. 🙂

    So it’s $70 for a Pacers ticket in the nose bleed, $377 roundtrip flight, and $83 for a hotel:

    $67 + $377 + $83 = $527 Total

    Cheapest Knicks ticket = $570

    Guess you’re going to Indy, Alan

    He’s got a chevy bolt, though. They go about 250 miles between charges. It’s about 700 miles to Indianapolis. That’s like $120 worth of charges.

    I’m down for 60 bucks if you can wrangle ten of us 😉

    #vicarious

    It’s so nice to see former players coming to the Garden to root for the current Knicks team. It feels like family! A very big Knicks family!

    I find Amar’e Stoudemire’s absence to be both notable and sad.

    Also re the OAKAAK guys: I wouldn’t say this is a time heals all wounds situation for me, since I never exactly hated Steph or Melo, neither of whom seemed like a bad guy, even if Steph was a flake and Melo had an overinflated sense of self. But both of them represented such frustrating eras in Knick history that I’ve been surprised by how happy I’ve been to see each of them appear during telecasts, or, last night, on the Jumbotron. I guess now that we’re in something resembling a new golden age, I can let go of how bad things once were.

    Re: Steph – there was a clip of him at one of the home games recently standing up and talking to the camera all excited saying something along the lines of “This is the Garden, baby! Ain’t nothing like this place during the playoffs!”

    And all I could think when I saw that clip was “how would you know?”

    Haliburton is 24, and is just entering his prime. He has a lot of room for growth and may become more mature and a better player. I just hope it doesn’t happen in the next few days.

    I’m in Omaha, NE. I’m contemplating taking Friday off and driving to Indianapolis by myself to see the game. It’s like an 8 hour drive lol.

    [swatting birthday-girl Sweet Princess Jowles’ hand away from the remote as she tries to turn the TV from the condensed game recap to a Coco Gauff Rome QF highlight reel]

    Ish don’t think so, SPJ

    And all I could think when I saw that clip was “how would you know?”

    Swift, it’s not a good memory but Starbury was a member of the 2004 Knicks team that were swept by the NJ Nets on the 1st round of the playoffs. Oof
    So he knows, but given how the series went down, if i was him i wouldn’t talk much about it. LOL

    Swift, it’s not a good memory but Starbury was a member of the 2004 Knicks team that were swept by the NJ Nets on the 1st round of the playoffs.

    Oh yeah, I remember that series. That was the beginning of the end, lol.

    Hubert, i think Amar’e comes to the Garden from time to time, but recently i think you’re right, i don’t remember seeing him at MSG this season.

    Steph was the first Knick I ever really got behind. Had his jersey when I was 9 or so. Things went south quickly, but that guy was a blast for young TNFH to watch for a time. Heartwarming to see him back for sure.

    Also, the Lakers securing permission to interview so many real coaches to give them cover for when they hire JJ Redick is pretty funny.

    I find Amar’e Stoudemire’s absence to be both notable and sad.

    he was there last week.

    i don’t think ewing ever had an offensive year quite as good as jalen’s this year. though it isn’t necessarily the loudest thing about his game, i think jalen’s turnover suppression is an important differentiator. age 23 tracy mcgrady had been the only 24+/gm scorer to ever have a tov% below 10 but an assist% of 30 (literally 30.0). this year jalen did 9.1 and 33.5. and it translates to a significant reduction in team turnover proclivity when he plays. this allows the knicks to field somewhat less scarce players who are plus offensive rebounders and subpar creators by taking on so much playmaking — playmaking that is efficient not only in converting attempts but in converting possessions into attempts. having a guy like that generating optionality for your other offensive pieces is very very hard to duplicate as a primarily high scoring center.

    i also doubt patrick could have been embiid on offense. he was an excellent shooter for a center but not in embiid’s universe. embiid has gotten his free throw and mid range shooting to kd and chris paul levels. ewing never hit 78pct from the line in a season. but it’s really not fair to have an offense only conversation about patrick.

    The thing with Patrick is that the Riley era of his greatest success came at the end of his prime, and with a team that played slow, kinda ugly offense. Our outside shooting was streaky Starks or over the hill Rolando Blackmon. Charles freaking Smith was supposed bring scoring…

    Rather than just pound it inside, in today’s game i think Patrick might have evolved like Embiid – or maybe Anthony Davis? – in today’s game. Before his knees went he has a great shot and could really move for his size. He was one of the top 5 guys in the pre-Pat Riley days bit the supporting cast was meh.

    By the time he got to the finals he was too slow to keep up with Hakeem and Starks did his 2-18 thing and that was the end of the Riley era.

    Brunson can score but Pat did kinda dominate on offense and defense in a different way. He was a beast in 90 tho.

    just sat down at Rui’s to munch on some Egg Foo Young and some kind of stir fried veggies…

    good job rough and pepper, way to get me out the house 😊

    Wow, did Donte actually post that?

    Rule One, savage the other guys AFTER the series is over.

    If 27-year-old Patrick Ewing was in the NBA in 2023-24, that dude would be taking, like, seven threes a game. It’s just a totally different offensive environment nowadays.

    Heck, imagine how many points Jordan would have averaged if he was taking 10 threes a game (which he totally would be if he played today).

    My Pacers fan friend has essentially conceded on the Pacers’ mentality. He still has hope for them, of course, but he was very upset at how gutless they were in Game 5.

    Donte didn’t actually post that, a lot of people got had by one of those insufferable imposter twitter accounts that should’ve been banned from the internet ages ago

    So it’s $70 for a Pacers ticket in the nose bleed, $377 roundtrip flight, and $83 for a hotel:

    $67 + $377 + $83 = $527 Total

    Cheapest Knicks ticket = $570

    Guess you’re going to Indy, Alan

    He’s got a chevy bolt, though. They go about 250 miles between charges. It’s about 700 miles to Indianapolis. That’s like $120 worth of charges.

    I did the drive from Queens to just east of Indy (Richmond) back and forth twice when playing minor league ball. It’s gotta be the worst drive ever. The highlight is driving through Columbus.

    Patrick Ewing’s 1989-90 season is still the greatest individual season by a Knick in my lifetime.

    If 27-year-old Patrick Ewing was in the NBA in 2023-24, that dude would be taking, like, seven threes a game. It’s just a totally different offensive environment nowadays.

    Yeah modern Ewing would be like Brook Lopez who didn’t have to play drop coverage all the time, or a Myles Turner who was actually good

    It really makes you wonder why no one thought to just have Ewing take threes back then. How in the world did it take so long for people to realize the value of taking threes?!

    Guys, I’m not driving. You’re buying me a planet ticket, a seat upgrade to at least economy plus (I’m taller than our starting backcourt), hotel, game ticket, etc. Or else I and my magical powers stay right here in beautiful suburban NJ.

    It really makes you wonder why no one thought to just have Ewing take threes back then. How in the world did it take so long for people to realize the value of taking threes?!

    we don’t have shooting data for early in his career but when he was near washed he was making 40% of his shots up to the 3 point line and nobody was ever like hey big fella back up 18″ and the shot is worth more, it’s crazy

    Gamers figured out the value of 3’s before NBA teams did. If you ever played NBA Live competitively back in the 90’s you’d know that “trey spamming” was a thing. Bomb as many threes as possible with Dan Majerle or Dell Curry or Steve Kerr and you’d probably do well.

    “If 27-year-old Patrick Ewing was in the NBA in 2023-24, that dude would be taking, like, seven threes a game. It’s just a totally different offensive environment nowadays.”

    Here’s some highlights from Patrick’s 27yo season (1989-90). He was pretty unguardable that year. He largely posted up but could play facing the basket as well. He had both a power and a finesse game, went across the lane in either direction and could finish with either hand on assorted hooks and up-and-under moves. He had a .599 TS% in a year when league average was .537. This year, Brunson had a .592 TS% when league average is .580.

    Ewing’s TS+ of 111.5 that year was slightly higher than Embiid’s was this year. Jalen Brunson’s was 102.

    In the playoffs, he utterly demolished the still formidable and highly intelligent Celtics in a 5 game series, shooting 57% from the field and averaging 32-11-4-2-2 in 42mpg. The champion Pistons slowed him down somewhat but hardly stopped him, he put up 27 and 10 on a .560 TS% against a great defensive team while the rest of his teammates struggled.

    Re: the prime Ewing vs. Brunson debate, there’s much more to a superstar’s offensive lift than scoring volume and efficiency. Brunson punches far above his weight as a near average TS% guy with his gravity, playmaking, and most importantly his incredible ball security.

    TOV% below 10% is insanely rare for anyone at Brunson’s level of usage and assist rate. While Ewing may have been more effective purely as a scorer back then, us lifers know he never showed the kind of basic talent as a passer that his superstar peers did — Hakeem, Robinson, and even a mature Shaq were all significantly better in that regard.

    Those are the things that underpin Brunson’s superior offensive impact metrics.

    Regarding 3 point shooting, I don’t think it’s automatic that good midrange shooting translates to good 3 point shooting — it certainly would have helped Jordan’s Wizards stint if it did!

    Firstly Ewing was just decent from midrange, not automatic the way guys like Horford or Dirk were. Another factor is that the spacing benefit would have been blunted back then because of the defensive rules — you could drag the opposing center out of the paint just fine even with a nonshooter. Finally, the taboos against jump shooting big men were very strong back then. Shooting a bunch of threes as a center was pretty much tantamount to coming out as gay.

    we don’t have shooting data for early in his career but when he was near washed he was making 40% of his shots up to the 3 point line and nobody was ever like hey big fella back up 18″ and the shot is worth more, it’s crazy

    Yeah, that really what was stuck in my head – the dude was nailing all of those long shots later in his career. You know who else could have been a huge three guy? Karl Malone. He took so many long twos!

    I’m not sure pepper, I had asked for chicken with the Egg Foo Young, but didn’t see any in the dish…

    it’s kind of a weird dish, or at least something I’m unfamiliar with…kind of like a stew with cornbreadish patties (the omelets) in them…

    it was good, just different from what I might normally try…

    which is cool 😊

    the beef stir-fry was real tasty…

    i’ll be honest though – towards the end of the meal I kept thinking: I wonder how the food at the new BBQ place in town tastes

    Ewing put Boston away with 3 pointer from the corner, which at the time was kind of a big deal.

    Malone was taking 35% of his shots from long two distance when he won the MVP in 1999, but basically one or two threes period the entire season!

    yeah…not for everybody…its like comfort food to me…but…if there are some good ribs and brisket nearby…probably would opt for that as well…

    I’m looking at new grills right now for the new house and man…i am deep in the rabbit hole…you can spend anywhere from 200 bucks to 15k…

    Ewing put Boston away with 3 pointer from the corner, which at the time was kind of a big deal.

    Right?! It was such a big deal…and then he just never continued it in the regular season. He clearly had the range.

    I’m still convinced that 3 point shooting was neglected for so long pretty much because of the coolness factor. Every player of the past two generations grew up watching MJ and Kobe respectively and idolizing and emulating their playstyle, while the guys who were known for shooting 3s well were dorky white dudes like Steve Kerr or John Paxson, or euros.

    Then Steph Curry made threes look cool and history was changed. As for the older generations like Ewing and Malone, well, they grew up watching the NBA when the 3 point line didn’t even exist.

    I stopped grilling…I love the smell, hate cleaning it up…

    pretty much all cooktop and oven now…

    my suggestion, unless your a “grill person” – go small, safe, aesthethically pleasing and convenient…

    no gas allowed…charcoal/chips/wood pieces only…

    “Patrick Ewing’s 1989-90 season is still the greatest individual season by a Knick in my lifetime.”

    And he averaged 38.6 minutes per game for that entire regular season (all 82 games; 3165 total minutes). Was Stu Jackon some kind of raving lunatic?!? 🙂

    you might need to save most of that 15k for your air conditioning and water bill – it gets really really hot out here pepper 🌞

    You know who else could have been a huge three guy? Karl Malone. He took so many long twos!

    What about Charles Oakley? They always said he was the best shooter on the team. His jumper was wet when he took it. He could have been a stretch 4!

    Yeah, I love food. Just don’t want to discuss it here. Love music, too. Don’t want to discuss that here, either. Love sex……. Love good films……. Love hiking……. Ad infinitum. 🙂

    Ewing would have been good if he played today because he was a good shooter. But he was probably helped by his era because he wasn’t a very good passer, and he wasn’t a very good ball handler, and he was slow with his decision making a lot of the time. He certainly wouldn’t be dominating like Embiid today, Embiid is better at everything (when healthy).

    Olajuwon is a guy who was maybe hurt by his era. He was a good passer and a good ball handler and had great footwork. À la Giannis, I think he’d really be hard to deal with in today’s league.

    okay doogie I’ll ask – if I go back through the thread and read through your posts – will I find anything of note…

    any words you pieced together that might be of interest…

    you know what truly separates us from all that came before?

    creativity…thinking just a bit more outside the box than before…

    maybe I’ll check later doogie, maybe not…

    Ewing’s passing was admittedly never a thing. My biggest gripe against him was that he was not a player who made those around him better. Brunson is head and shoulders above him in that regard. He is also someone who can bring the ball up and score, i.e. isn’t reliant on the pass. Like Melo, his low turnover rate sort of offsets his pedestrian TS%, but unlike Melo, he actually passes! And also unlike Melo, I think he’d be happy to defer if he had another elite scorer on the team.

    I loved that Mike Brown said something to the effect that the only other player he blitzes and doubles the way he did to Brunson when he scored 42 against the Kings is Steph. When a coach puts you in the same offensive category as the greatest shooter who ever lived, that says a lot about how good you are.

    And like Ewing, he is sort of in a class by himself, so the opposing defense’s game plan starts with trying to keep Brunson from going off. Yet he keeps putting up 40-spots no matter what the defense does. Like Ewing, he does it from everywhere in many different ways, but he’s only 6’1″ and plays below the rim. He plays a different kind of power game, one that bumps defenders off balance so that his footwork will do the rest.

    At the end of the day, we might be looking at the most skilled offensive player in Knicks history. I hesitate to fully anoint him because of my reverence for Bernard King and Patrick Ewing. But just to be in that conversation, as a former second round pick who didn’t even start in his first three years for his former team, who we acquired for virtually nothing on a non-superstar salary and who isn’t going anywhere, is pretty fucking awesome. It’s like the pipe dream of Linsanity actually came true, only even better!

    Embiid is better at everything (when healthy).

    A bridge too far, Donnie Sixers Fan.

    I believe as much as I believe anything that Joel Embiid would have been terrorized by the compete level of basketball in the 80s and 90s.

    And I’ll tell you one thing Ewing did much better than Embiid: run all the way to the other end of the court.

    i have solar panels on the roof…I pay Tesla like a 100 a month…supposedly that will power the house…we’ll see….also…water isn’t too bad…at least what i can see here in scottsdale…

    supposed to hit a 100 in next few days…my wife already started whining about it…gonna be a looooonng summer…got Def Leppard tickets for a summer show at Chase Field…it’s nice…they can close up the roof to keep it cool..

    okay, now I’ll indulge…

    not sure of the exact words, this reminds me of this great quote from the movie Magnolia:

    you are not simply dull, but are rather the cause of dullness in others

    now I’m sure the folks close to you Doogie most likely don’t share that sentiment…across a broader spectrum of humans, yeah it might be so…

    Like I’m all for grown men crying. Fuck toxic masculinity and all that shit. But I just don’t think this man would have handled playing the Pistons and Celtics of the 80s very well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrCylyCGC6c

    Ewing, on the other hand, in this landscape where there’s really no other big men, with the fouls they call today… He’d be at least as good as Embiid right now. Probably much better.

    “Ewing would have been good if he played today because he was a good shooter. But he was probably helped by his era because he wasn’t a very good passer, and he wasn’t a very good ball handler, and he was slow with his decision making a lot of the time. He certainly wouldn’t be dominating like Embiid today, Embiid is better at everything (when healthy).”

    I disagree. If you watch game film from that Celtics-Knicks series in 1990, the entire game was played well inside the 3-pt arc. There was much less space to work in, double-teams come faster, and passing out of double-teams was to cutters, not to dead-eye 3pt shooters spotting up in the corner. It is harder to score with your back to the basket than facing up.

    Embiid is not a great ball-handler or decision-maker. He only really started passing this year, and he has a career 1:1 AST/TO ratio. He’s a career 34% 3pt shooter, and 29% in the playoffs. He’s not an elite shot blocker. He’s only made 3 all-defense teams, never first team (same as Ewing). He has melted down in the playoffs in big spots and never gotten past the conference semi’s.

    As to health, it’s not like it was easier to stay healthy back in Ewing’s day with the grit and grind, the level of competition, and the sports/medicine science, and the complete lack of load management. Despite chronic knee issues, Ewing played 79 games or more for 8 straight years, usually for 36mpg or more, and did so because he never was overweight or out of shape.

    I don’t think Ewing would have had any problem adapting to today’s NBA, he’d be a top-5-7 player in the league just like he was back then, and probably closer to being an MVP.

    Donovan Mitchell, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen and Craig Porter are all out for the Cavs tonight.

    Would love to see The Evan Mobley Game happen to extend that series, but…

    One thing I can’t remember if I mentioned last night: it’s amazing how loud the MSG crowd gets after every Knick offensive rebound. Like, the kind of sound you’d hear at an arena after a hometown player goes off on a breakaway dunk. Maybe more. The only louder responses may have been to Jalen’s footwork, particularly when he put one of the Pacers on skates. The fanbase gets what this team is about, which is very cool.

    One thing I can’t remember if I mentioned last night: it’s amazing how loud the MSG crowd gets after every Knick offensive rebound.

    In 50 years, fans will be very confused over why this season’s highlight reel contains only offensive rebounds and stills of Josh Hart’s name in the boxscore next to 48:00

    not too much interest in watching celtics/cavs wrap the series up…can’t wait though for the thunder/mavs to start playing…

    i’m gonna guess the thunder win a close game…

    yanks vs twins…might be a good pitching matchup if stroman has his stuff together…on amazon prime tv

    btw…i looked that restaurant up…it’s interesting..has shanghai in the name…but the menu looks to be all the regional cuisines…and they refer to the lunch special as “bento” which is japanese…anyway..if I come through around thanksgiving….lets hit that or the bbq joint…

    ps..i saw the menu picture of the egg foo young…doesn’t look like that is in their core competency….you probably got a real distorted version of it…

    Is Thibs going to be the first Knicks coach to sign an extension this millenium?

    Doogie Thread Statistics:

    Post 1). some starks/mcconnell confusion thing – which wasn’t really confusing at all…honestly – i had lunch a few weeks ago with two people in their 80’s who can track a conversation a million times more ably than yourself…yes…

    Post 2). thanking al for the clarification about starks

    Post 3). excellent b-ball post about alec doing big time stuff for us

    Post 4). re-quotes and corrects someone. does the young at mind LOL thing

    Post 5). re-quotes and some weak ridicule about some old thought

    Post 6). complains about pepper and myself having a civil conversation

    Post 7). clarifies complaint

    you are statistically speaking 1 for 7 on anything of interest – to anyone, today…

    that is not a good performance…it’s a poor performance…

    if at some point you muster an original thought – PLEASE, PUT IT IN BOLD LETTERS IN YOUR POST…

    so i know you’ve somehow been able to free your mind, just a bit…

    it’s like those old stone cart ruts you find in the mediterranean…like just how long did people stay traveling in those same damn ruts…

    so what’s doogie’s TS%…seeing how he wants “hoopspeak only”…not sure what math i need to do for a 1 for 7 night…but its probably no bueno…

    thanks pepper – i don’t have the mlb season ticket on my amazon, just the MLBtv channel that Freevee sponsors…

    they’re showing some old cubs/cardinals game from london…

    espn + has the cubs/braves though…that’ll get me through til the start of the thunder/mavs 🙂

    We might well be arguing the Brunson/Ewing thing well into the summer and beyond, but the one thing I’ll say at this point is that they have one major similarity. They are/were both money from 5-15. Every shot that they take/took you absolutely believed it would go in, and were shocked if it didn’t. Smooth, soft, beautiful little jumpers.

    geo…you don’t need MLB for this one…if you have amazon prime video…you get it (just type Yankees in the search bar)…it might also be on TNT or TBS

    “Post 1). some starks/mcconnell confusion thing – which wasn’t really confusing at all…honestly – i had lunch a few weeks ago with two people in their 80’s who can track a conversation a million times more ably than yourself…yes…”

    Not confusing at all if you’d never seen the interaction between those two people and had never previously heard about it. People in their 80s (not “80’s”) couldn’t track that any easier than someone in their 20s could. No context was given, so the assumption that readers already knew about it wasn’t a great one. If there was a post previous to that one that detailed the interaction, well…….that would be on me if I missed it. But I don’t think that’s the case here. 🙂

    Not to get all Fooderblooger here, and I’m sure it’s been talked about, but if you go to Indy, get the Shrimp Cocktail from St. Elmo’s. You can walk to the arena from there. If you can’t get in, Mass Ave has some nice places to eat. After that, you’re kinda outta luck.

    oh man – *unavailable due to regional restrictions*

    it’s all good…i don’t really watch as much sports as i once did, although for some reason – the yanks haven’t been showing up much on any of the zillion different media services i have…

    and i’ll tell ya this – if it wasn’t for KB – i damn sure wouldn’t have watched so many knick games over the years…

    there were a lot of seasons of really bad basketball that i watched…a lot…just so i would know a bit abut the conversation…

    it’s funny – these threads used to be filled with stats…

    Edit: from what i have seen – rodon is pitching better now…

    it’s fine doogie…you’re fine, nothings wrong…yeah man, let’s all try to stick to basketball and statistics and analytics and humor…

    it’s hard to be humorous though – takes a good bit of creativity…

    i just realized…this is last nights game….i need a drink…later…

    But it wasn’t funny, geo!

    Just kidding. Have to keep up the persona…….

    Cavs seem to be hanging in there despite Garland shitting the bed so far… Marcus Morris is pulling an Alec Burks.

    just don’t go start calling yourself Downtown Doogie Brown: The Great…

    i may have to start checking in on your anchors, in the fear your good mental ship may have become – unmoored…

    the live Yankees game is on amazon, it’s so confusing to follow the team now

    NBA is going that way too. They will have at least one streaming only broadcaster in the next round of TV contracts.

    There will be a lot of talk about Spider, but the Cavs should just move Garland and Allen (since they seem to trust Mobley will be a start one day). They could get some useful stuff in return.

    the NFL has at least 6 different outlets now i think…abc & espn & espn +/cbs & paramount +/nbc & peacock/fox/netflix/amazon…

    although – i do kind of like football every single day of the week…

    Knick beat writers all saying if Knicks win on Friday the Celtics series starts Sunday afternoon as I feared.

    Ridiculous scheduling.

    I mean I guess I should like it as a fan? But one day off before an afternoon road game? I thought the league used to give teams too much time off, but this is ridiculous.

    Ok now they’re saying it depends if Wolves Nuggets goes 7 games or not. ABC has to have a 3:30 game on Sunday so it’s either Game 1 of Knicks Celtics or Game 7 between Wolves and Nuggets.

    “just don’t go start calling yourself Downtown Doogie Brown: The Great…”

    There is about a negative 79.4 percent chance of that happening, and the thought never came close to crossing my mind. I’m no better than anyone else here.

    “i may have to start checking in on your anchors, in the fear your good mental ship may have become – unmoored…”

    I’m not sure what I wrote that would even bring that up in your mind, but I can guarantee you that I’ve never been better!

    Not sure what the Cavs could get back for those guys that would appease Spida. Ingram for Garland won’t move the needle. And if they trade for draft picks, that will make Mitchell want to leave.

    From Shams’ Cleveland tell-all:

    One week after that, on the final day of the regular season, the Cavs were ahead by double digits in the fourth quarter against a tanking Charlotte Hornets team but finished that game with third stringers and no guards on the court to effectively lose and ensure they would not have to play the Philadelphia 76ers in the first round. Players were upset, though that seemed to be more of an organizational decision than one made solely on the bench.

    I used to think Pat Riley was David Lo Pan. I don’t anymore. I think there’s definitely something evil brewing out west though. It ain’t the Celtics. They’re very Wing Kong. Josh Hart is very Jack and Tae is very Wang. Brunson is very Eddie and Thibs is very Egg. They’re certainly shaking the pillars of heaven right now. Fuck the Cavs. May they suffer in the Hell of Organizational Pusillanimity where mercenaries bleed their hearts dry every year. DORT!

    Jesus Christ, Clarence, you gonna make me go watch that movie again?

    Jesus Christ, Clarence, you gonna make me go watch that movie again?

    I mean it’s that or Trading Places. You could give Challenger a try. Trigger warning, half the movie takes place in a reenactment of the Great Newspaper Wind Storm of New Rochelle of 2022. Lots of Newspaper.

    edit… oh I did that wrong I think

    edit… I did

    Is Thibs going to be the first Knicks coach to sign an extension this millenium?

    Didn’t Isiah Thomas get extended after winning 30 something games?

    I am eagerly anticipating the fast approaching Slavic Slugfest.

    Maybe the Mavs players hate playing with Luka so much that they decided to play extra hard to spite him?

    “I used to think Pat Riley was David Lo Pan. I don’t anymore. I think there’s definitely something evil brewing out west though. It ain’t the Celtics. They’re very Wing Kong. Josh Hart is very Jack and Tae is very Wang. Brunson is very Eddie and Thibs is very Egg. They’re certainly shaking the pillars of heaven right now. Fuck the Cavs. May they suffer in the Hell of Organizational Pusillanimity where mercenaries bleed their hearts dry every year. DORT!”

    What the fuck movie is *that*?!? Sounds very geoish.

    I have no idea what the BTiLC references are about, but I do know that Clarence Beeks once said of the ‘24 Indiana Pacers “This is as far as we go. No more Swedish meatballs, And no more phony Irish whiskey. No more goddamn jerky beef. The party’s over!”

    (I also know that my kids have slowly turned me into Principle Vernon — a character I grew up hating but have grown to admire.)

    Doogie, it’s Big Trouble in Little China, one of Kurt Russell’s many fun B movies (which include Escape from New York and Stargate). Haven’t seen it in a very, very long time. Nor am I entirely sure why it is referenced, but there you go.

    Donnie, as both Doogie and Z–Man would say, about different aspects of your post, I believe it is Vice Principal Vernon.

    “Donnie, as both Doogie and Z–Man would say, about different aspects of your post, I believe it is Vice Principal Vernon.”

    Yes, I kept “Principal” to myself. I didn’t remember that he was only second in command in the school, though.

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