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Knicks Morning News (2024.05.13)


  • Indiana Pacers cruise past New York Knicks, tie series – ESPN
    [ESPN] – Sun, 12 May 2024 22:31:00 GMT
    1. Indiana Pacers cruise past New York Knicks, tie series
    2. NBA playoffs: Pacers crush Knicks, 12189, in Game 4 Mother’s Day massacre
    3. Knicks-Pacers: 5 takeaways from Pacers’ decisive Game 4 victory
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    5. How high-octane Pacers overwhelmed Knicks in Game 4, setting up daunting task for exhausted New York roster


  • Stephen A. Smith ‘throwing up’ as Knicks get destroyed by Pacers – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Sun, 12 May 2024 21:38:00 GMT
    1. Stephen A. Smith ‘throwing up’ as Knicks get destroyed by Pacers
    2. Stephen A. Smith says his beloved Knicks made him vomit in response to Game 5 blowout loss to Pacers
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    5. Stephen A. Smith Says Knicks Are Asking Too Much From 1 Player


  • Isaiah Hartenstein’s X-ray negative as Knicks can’t afford another injury – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Mon, 13 May 2024 00:47:00 GMT
    1. Isaiah Hartenstein’s X-ray negative as Knicks can’t afford another injury
    2. Knicks reach playoff breaking point as injuries mount against Pacers
    3. The Mothers Day Massacre in Indy, Rangers Drop Game 4, and Mets Walk-Off to Avoid Sweep
    4. Short-handed and fatigued, Knicks’ best adjustment is to look like themselves
    5. Knicks don’t show much fight as Game 4 blowout loss to Pacers ties series at 2 games apiece


  • NBA Rumors: Knicks, 76ers Among Teams Who Could Trade 1st-Round Picks in 2024 Draft – Bleacher Report
    [Bleacher Report] – Sun, 12 May 2024 21:39:14 GMT

    NBA Rumors: Knicks, 76ers Among Teams Who Could Trade 1st-Round Picks in 2024 Draft


  • OG Anunoby injury update doesn’t sound promising for Knicks – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Sun, 12 May 2024 19:26:08 GMT
    1. OG Anunoby injury update doesn’t sound promising for Knicks
    2. Knicks rule OG Anunoby (hamstring) out for Game 4 vs. Pacers
    3. Knicks’ OG Anunoby out, Pacers’ Tyrese Haliburton questionable for Game 4
    4. Knicks vs. Pacers injuries: OG Anunoby out again, plus updates on Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Haliburton
    5. Knicks injury updates ahead of Game 4 against Pacers, including OG Anunoby’s outlook for remainder of series


  • Knicks forward Josh Hart still doesn’t like Indiana, Indianapolis – IndyStar
    [IndyStar] – Sun, 12 May 2024 19:37:38 GMT

    Knicks forward Josh Hart still doesn’t like Indiana, Indianapolis


  • The Undertaker Nuggets, the Knicks on Fumes, OKCs Playoff Education, and an NBA Lottery Snoozer With Ryen Ru – The Ringer
    [The Ringer] – Mon, 13 May 2024 05:45:20 GMT

    The Undertaker Nuggets, the Knicks on Fumes, OKCs Playoff Education, and an NBA Lottery Snoozer With Ryen Ru


  • NBA picks, best bets: Another close Knicks vs. Pacers game, plus more offense in Nuggets vs. Timberwolves – CBS Sports
    [CBS Sports] – Sun, 12 May 2024 15:03:19 GMT
    1. NBA picks, best bets: Another close Knicks vs. Pacers game, plus more offense in Nuggets vs. Timberwolves
    2. NBA Best Bets: Picks for Knicks vs Pacers, Nuggets vs Timberwolves (May 12)
    3. 2024 NBA playoffs – Bets, lines and stats for Sunday
    4. NBA Playoffs Player Prop Bet Odds & Picks: Sunday (5/12)
    5. NBA Top Plays Best on Betting Splits, Power Ratings and Trends for Game Fours


  • Wild Story About T. J. McConnell Going Viral After Pacers Huge Win Over Knicks – Athlon Sports
    [Athlon Sports] – Sun, 12 May 2024 22:28:09 GMT

    Wild Story About T. J. McConnell Going Viral After Pacers Huge Win Over Knicks


  • A (Semi-Famous) Fame Scholar Takes In the Knicks’ Courtside Celebs – The New Yorker
    [The New Yorker] – Mon, 13 May 2024 10:00:00 GMT

    A (Semi-Famous) Fame Scholar Takes In the Knicks’ Courtside Celebs


  • 50 Cent Blames Ja Rule For New York Knicks’ Playoff Loss: ‘Ya Don’t Listen!’ – HipHopDX
    [HipHopDX] – Sun, 12 May 2024 17:30:20 GMT
    1. 50 Cent Blames Ja Rule For New York Knicks’ Playoff Loss: ‘Ya Don’t Listen!’
    2. Ja Rule accused of ‘cursing’ Knicks’ chances of winning first NBA championship since 1973… after KISSING Lar
    3. “This janky a** ninja put his juju all on the team” – 50 Cent brings up Ja Rule’s curse to bet on Timberwolves winning over Knicks
    4. 50 Cent Piles Misery On ‘Janky’ Ja Rule Over New York Knicks ‘Curse’
    5. Told Y’all Don’t Bet on Knicks: 50 Cent Uses Viral Meme Calling Ja Rule ‘Fool’ for Premature Celebration With Larry O’Brien


  • Pat McAfee’s strong message to Pacers’ Rick Carlisle after Game 4 win will trigger Knicks fans – ClutchPoints
    [ClutchPoints] – Mon, 13 May 2024 01:50:00 GMT

    Pat McAfee’s strong message to Pacers’ Rick Carlisle after Game 4 win will trigger Knicks fans


  • Tyrese Haliburton’s Pregame Outfit Turning Heads Before Knicks-Pacers Game 4 – Athlon Sports
    [Athlon Sports] – Sun, 12 May 2024 17:50:37 GMT

    Tyrese Haliburton’s Pregame Outfit Turning Heads Before Knicks-Pacers Game 4


  • New York Knicks 89 – Indiana Pacers 121: Final score, results, recap, box score, stats – Yahoo Sports
    [Yahoo Sports] – Mon, 13 May 2024 08:15:47 GMT

    New York Knicks 89 – Indiana Pacers 121: Final score, results, recap, box score, stats


  • 2024 NBA playoffs bracket, schedule, scores, games today: Knicks vs. Pacers and Nuggets vs. Wolves in Game 4 – CBS Sports
    [CBS Sports] – Sun, 12 May 2024 16:15:32 GMT
    1. 2024 NBA playoffs bracket, schedule, scores, games today: Knicks vs. Pacers and Nuggets vs. Wolves in Game 4
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  • NBA playoffs: Nuggets edge Timberwolves, Pacers thrash Knicks in game 4 – Al Jazeera English
    [Al Jazeera English] – Mon, 13 May 2024 05:02:57 GMT

    NBA playoffs: Nuggets edge Timberwolves, Pacers thrash Knicks in game 4


  • Leaked Audio Reveals Tyrese Haliburton’s NSFW Message To Knicks – Athlon Sports
    [Athlon Sports] – Mon, 13 May 2024 06:10:03 GMT
    1. Leaked Audio Reveals Tyrese Haliburton’s NSFW Message To Knicks
    2. Inside the growing rivalry between two of the best guards in the East
    3. “You can’t f*ck with me. Can’t guard me” – Leaked audio of Tyrese Haliburton trash-talking the Knicks in Game 4
    4. “Can’t f**k with me”, “Long f**king series” – Tyrese Haliburton and Jalen Brunson’s alleged trash talk in Game 4 leaked
    5. Knicks vs Pacers: Jalen Brunson & Tyrese Haliburton’s Leaked NSFW Audio From Game 4 Goes Viral

  • 177 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.05.13)”

    But blaming him for the OG injury is pretty fucking stupid.

    The argument is that Thibs was reckless with a player he needed to protect. And not out of necessity, but bc of his pigheaded insistence that no one can leave the dungeon.

    You defended Thibs by saying if he had played Alec Burks even 2 minutes we would have lost. Talk about pretty fucking stupid!

    Alec Burks is averaging 27.2 pts per 36 on 69.1% True Shooting with an 11.5 bpm since entering the playoffs. Turns out playing him on the wing instead of PG does make a difference. Who knew?

    Oh good. Another day of people attacking each other.

    Y’all are going to force me to do my work today. Thanks for nothing.

    Well, have at it. Ciao.

    The Pacers celebrated during the game, and on bench as if they won the championship. I doubt they will have the same intensity tomorrow. The only question is how will the Knicks respond, and if they still have something left in the tank.

    I genuinely don’t think you can blame Thibs for this current rash of injuries.

    Randle flying full speed at Bam and landing horribly is a freak accident, and if anything is way more on Randle than “overuse.”

    Mitch is oft injured. Also had Embiid doing his best prime Kurt angle impression in between jumping dick kicks.

    OG has never played a full season, so you’re gonna put him on a minutes restriction, fine you can make that argument, but this is round 2 of the nba playoffs and Brunson was hurt. What is he supposed to do? Punt the game? OG wouldn’t have the been primary offensive option had literally anyone else generating clean looks in that first half.

    Bogey had his ankle chopped out from underneath him during a loose ball scramble. Obviously this is thibs fault because he makes the guys play too hard /s.

    Thibs coached the shit out of these guys, led us to a second seed and two wins out of the ECF (And yes it should be one win away but the NBA awards whining bitch coaches over actual good coaching which is my major gripe with this league).

    Indiana is literally built for games like this. This was bound to happen and we all knew there would be one blowout with OG out. He is too important to the defensive rotations that Thibs runs.

    Now we all hope that we get angry Brunson and convince all the guys to start wearing High Top shoes to protect them ankles.

    Thibs coached the shit out of these guys, led us to a second seed and two wins out of the ECF

    At the cost of them breaking down well before the end of the season. Yet again.

    The other coaches don’t do this and are therefore at an illusory “disadvantage” against Thibs. Their record comes at a much lower cost.

    They’re now 30 to 1 to win the chip. Less than a week ago they were 9.5 to 1.

    The ceiling has been lowered. Yet again.

    I’ll say a couple more things and then call it a posting day on this topic.

    1. OG Anunoby is one of the most brittle players in the association. He’s overworked at too high a risk at 36 mpg. Fourty-six minutes per game is simply insane.

    2. Thibs is not only very likely significantly responsible for this OG injury, but this is the third such head-scratcher with the very same player within four months. The first was the period from acquisition until needing surgery; the second was the misuse upon the return from surgery necessitating still more time out. Right from the get-go, nothing about the way his injuries and minutes have been managed has made any sense. As others have noted, it seems inconceivable that Thibs is the right coach to manage OG’s brittleness issues.

    OG has never played a full season, so you’re gonna put him on a minutes restriction, fine you can make that argument, but this is round 2 of the nba playoffs and Brunson was hurt.

    And , of course, I’ve yet to see the data that “minutes restrictions” actually improve a player’s durability and is a net positive vs minutes lost on the floor. Kahwai Leonard sez hai…. he is the most overprotected/minutes restricted player in the NBA over the last 6 seasons and still blew out his ACL 3 years ago and was unable to go in the playoffs the past two.

    Does Steve Kerr get blamed for Durant and Klay having catastrophic injuries and then Klay tearing his Achille’s tendon rehabbing?

    Well, the even bigger question is whether OG can play.

    I’d be stunned if he was able to play until the middle of the next series (if we are lucky enough to make it that far).

    It’s weird… the better this team gets, and the deeper into the playoffs it goes, the worse this blog gets. It has me pining for the offseason already, so y’all can go back to discussing bagels, pizza, and pickleball.

    is anyone optimistic for Tuesday…? i am not… its falling apart on both sides of the ball… im usually an optimist…

    I’ll have faith and optimism in these guys until the final horn in the game they’re eliminated blows. They’ve done well through adversity and I’m excited about the team’s future!

    OG played 1,702 total minutes this year so it’s a little hard for me to buy the idea that he was “overworked,” and I say this as someone who has criticized Thibs plenty as it relates to minute allocations and the like (e.g. Mitch’s first return this year and OG’s first return this year).

    He did get up to 40 MPG in 8 playoff games, but that’s not much of a departure from the 36 MPG he put up in two different playoff stints with Toronto.

    We’ll never know for sure which is what makes dwelling on this topic so exhausting, but Occam’s Razor suggests he landed awkwardly in a basketball game and got hurt.

    I only have one grand takeaway and it’s naturally that my priors are correct: we shouldn’t waste multiple roster spots on non-prospect, non-contributors. If Brunson wants one (1) Arcidiacono that’s well worth it, but give the other spots to guys who might someday play a meaningful minute for the New York Knicks.

    I have faith that they are going respond well and play with a lot of energy in game 5, but we are missing so much I don’t think we have the better team without OG, Mitch and Bojan. There’s simply not enough depth now. OG is critical on defense and important on offense because of the spacing he provides.

    im not giving up on the team, and i dont think theyre gonna give up either but it just doesnt seem like enough… but who knows… had we started out with better shooting yesterday, does that force indiana into a different approach… did they just do a great job at keeping foot on throat… they saw weakness and pressed harder.. .if they hadnt seen that weakness, maybe the outcome shifts

    At the cost of them breaking down well before the end of the season. Yet again.

    Way to fucking ignore every rational argument he made about why these specific injuries happened so you can spout the same bullshit.

    Also, how is it WAY before the end of the season? We’re in the second round of the fucking playoffs. So are you saying that without Thibs, we’re a finals team?

    So sick of this bullshit. Every injury that has happened can be explained by something other than “too many minutes.” Yet you assholes refuse to even acknowledge it

    Fuck all of you.

    You’ve been AWOL from this blog during hte most exciting Knicks playoff run in the past 20 years only to reappear now when things get tough.

    FUCK YOU.

    My take on the minutes issue is that most players are banged up by this point in the season. IMO playing excessive minutes while hurt won’t help a player recover and could make matters worse either directly on their injury or indirectly because of the way the player is compensating.

    We can’t answer some questions about injuries, but clearly playing a little less is not going to cause physical harm. It’s going to help recovery.

    I think the more important point is that we know for certain that hard schedules impact performance. It’s always tougher to play back to backs, 3 out of 4 nights etc… There’s plenty of data to back that up.

    It has to be especially tough for the Knicks because of the way they win a LOT of games. They go all out on both sides of the ball. They outwork teams with a little more talent.

    I think it’s pretty obvious that yesterday Indiana was fresher and ready and the Knicks were exhausted and needed an extra day off (at a minimum). Part of that is because of the injuries. But part of it is that Thibs doesn’t use his bench enough. He goes all out every game (including when they are obviously out of the game and hurting).

    There’s a tradeoff to going all out all the time and we saw the downside yesterday.

    In fact, thinking long term, I’d say our window is shorter than the age of the players implies because players can be effective for a long time, but how many years can Hart play like this?

    Four months of Jalen Brunson Hero Ball combined with turning the minutes dial to 11 is hardly “coaching the shit out of these guys.”

    but we are missing so much I don’t think we have the better team without OG, Mitch and Bojan

    it’s really just this. an annoying side effect of being so depreciated is that most of the interesting conversations about lineups and matchups and play design all but vanish, leaving us with a thin detritus of rather boring attempts to assess impossible counterfactuals like the relationship between marginal minutes and injury probability. luckily we only need to win two games against a very much non-juggernaut and in two games the ball bounceth, so at least we can still dream of waking up alive in the ecf finals with OG in our sights. but it’ll take some doing.

    The minutes stuff is exhausting. The Celtics were really careful with Porzingis this year. Guess where he is come playoff time? He’s out hurt. Denver’s second most important player has a calf injury. He played 39 minutes last night. Luka has a knee injury, he played 39 minutes last game. You can go on and on with basically every team in the playoffs and you find they play their good players heavy minutes in the playoffs. If Kyrie gets hurt next game and it’s a close game do you think the Mavs are going to say hey we need to play Luka less? No fucking way.

    Four months of Jalen Brunson Hero Ball combined with turning the minutes dial to 11 is hardly “coaching the shit out of these guys.”

    In this thread we learn that Brunson, DDV, Deuce, I Hart, J Hart , OG and Randle all playing the absolute best ball of their careers simultaneously this season has absolutely nothing to do with coaching…. but anything bad that happens, even if Randle takes a fall, Bogey gets his leg fallen on scrambling for a loose ball (which he probably never did before in his life before he met Thibs), Mitch gets his leg grabbed by the MVP and lands funny, Brunson hurts his foot in the first quarter of a game and OG pops a hammy playing 1-2/3 games in 6 days and…. wait for it….. well fuck Thibs!!!

    As bad as yesterday was if we had just made our 3s it’s probably a competitive game, which is at least something to hope for in game 5

    I dunno, Indy seemed so fast, so fresh. Maybe the shots aren’t falling because their (our guys’) legs are just dead…

    Did we discuss pickleball? We have sunk to some depths in the dark times….

    He did get up to 40 MPG in 8 playoff games, but that’s not much of a departure from the 36 MPG he put up in two different playoff stints with Toronto.

    The minutes were fine until Bogey went down. Then instead of going to the next man up (Burks), Thibs made the choice to use OG 46 mpg over 4 playoff games.

    Many defended the dungeon and we have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of the people who can never admit they were wrong about something.

    But this wasn’t about OG. OG was last week. Thibs fucked up again yesterday.

    Hubert how do you know OG wouldn’t have pulled his hammy and the results of the games would have been the same if OG played 38 mpg instead of 46

    He doesn’t know, dred. He’s only going to bang his one drum over and over and over again until he drives not just me and Alan from the site but everyone else, after which he can sit back and say, see, everyone here agrees with me.

    I don’t think there is any OG minutes argument here… I’m not arguing with anyone… but the play on which OG pulled his hammy… it was a bang bang play, the pass was ahead of him, and he arguably sprinted harder than any other downcourt sprint he’s ever made… not to mention, basketball players adjust their steps to prepare for take-off, thus lengthening and shortening stride based on when and where they need to take off… ACTUAL sprinters pull hammies all the time… and they are specifically trained to loosen up, warm up and sprint. It’s really not a surprise AT ALL, that a guy pulled a hammy on this type of play… Am I crazy???

    That’s your straw men, DRed.

    The argument is that Thibs doesn’t manage risk effectively, and he has a pathological tendency to take catastrophic risk for minimal gain.

    The argument is also that Thibs puts players in The Dungeon who are useful, and that limits our postseason longevity and makes team building more difficult.

    Minimal gain? OG was playing in playoff games we won by 3, 5 and 4 points. We probably lose those games otherwise.

    He’s only going to bang his one drum over and over and over again until he drives not just me and Alan from the site but everyone else, after which he can sit back and say, see, everyone here agrees with me.

    You realize you guys have driven away everyone from the site who doesn’t agree with you, right?

    Thibs is the number 1 topic among Knicks fans around the world today, but no one feels comfortable talking about it here because of the aggressive intolerance of a small group.

    We probably lose those games otherwise.

    So risk losing a player because you’re afraid to sit him 8 minutes.

    You’ll win more games having OG for 35 minutes consistently than by having him 46 minutes 4 times and 0 minutes the rest.

    Brunson -408 minutes

    Hali -354 minutes

    So far in the playoffs in 10 games

    That’s 54 extra minutes which is an entire game, plus overtime of wear and tear on Brunson. That could be a reason why one players looks fresher at the moment.

    I’m sorry but there’s so much nuance missing here from both sides.

    Two things can be true at the same time.
    1) We would never be in this position in the first place without Thibs and he is one of the top 5 coaches in the league.
    2) He has a bad tendency to overuse and tire out his players that could arguably lead to them getting injured and tired at the wrong time of year.

    Both of these assertions are impossible to prove without getting rid of him which is absolutely not happening.

    Doesn’t that pretty much settle it?

    Donovan Mitchell skipped today’s shoot around because he’s dealing with a calf injury. Should the Cavs play him? lif so how many minutes is the most he should play and how do you know that?

    Yes, it does, cgreene.

    No one denies point 1. But there’s a small group of dissidents who refuse to concede point 2, so they hurl insults at and mock everyone who suggests it.

    EDIT: and create ridiculous straw men like the stupid Mitchell post above this.

    DRed, the Cavs aren’t going to win that series so Mitchell sitting will just make the game non competitive, but not change the long term result of what’s going to happen.

    OG being available the Knicks win this series, now they are at serious risk of bowing out because of injuries.

    The OG/Thibs situation is like some morality play that was written by Rod Serling or Guy de Maupassant or something.

    It’s simultaneously the best and worst marriage of player and coach. If there was ever a player that Tom Thibodeau was guaranteed to run into the ground, it is the versatile yet injury prone defensive wizard named OG Anunoby.

    Does anybody realistically see this going any other way? Does anybody see this relationship working out in the long term? I’m squinting my eyes here and I can’t see a future where we’re not endlessly frustrated by OG Anunoby sitting on the bench resting his latest injury.

    I’m starting to question whether it’s a good idea to re-sign him, even as unquestionably brilliant as he is. We’re awesome with him and mediocre without him. It’s a real pickle.

    Misery misery misery. This place is drearier today than I feel!

    Haven’t posted much of late because I don’t really feel any kind of way about yesterday’s game, or the ones remaining. I saw the injuries in G2 as likely heralding the end of our season, regardless of the outcome of that game. I took the G3 loss hard because I saw it as our last-ditch effort to take control of the series on the back of an outlier shooting performance we’d be unlikely to replicate. We fell short, and here we are. With our horses ran to death and 36h of rest, the outcome of G4 was no surprise.

    As I’ve said before to much consternation, it’s very clear we’re cooked. Brunson is now compromised to an extent that is clinically measurable ( https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cqyxdq/hoop_collective_windhorst_i_looked_at_stats_today/), so it’s kind of ironic that the injury report lists multiple ailments for Hali but none for him.

    We could maybe have weathered the loss of OG or the crippling of Brunson, but both combined is an unrecoverable knockout blow. Thibs’ insistence on playing one of the worst lineups in the entire playoffs only pours salt on the wound by ruling out the possibility of an upset. We might have a shot at more 3-point luck by starting Deuce, but like a scared old gambler, Thibs is in a defensive crouch playing weak tight. We’ll be getting blown out in the next two games as well if that continues.

    Personally, I don’t think the Great Thibs Injury Debate is interesting or informative. He’s not different enough from other coaches in these contexts for the variance in results to be attributable to much more than our consistently terrible luck. My issue is with how he mitigates and responds to the losses — playing Achiuwa in this series is just a repeat of Woodson losing us the 2013 Pacers’ series by going big against Hibbert.

    I’m also worried that due to the lack of imaging done on Brunson’s foot, we’ve overlooked a possible injury that may affect him long term. He may have already been Derrick Rosed and we just don’t know it yet.

    This year was probably our best chance in awhile. The rest of the East figures to get significantly better, and we will probably have to spend our draft capital just to offset the loss of iHart this season. We’ll be very lucky to end up with a team as strong as this year’s, or to match our position in the standings.

    Oh well. We’ll always have January, and the dream of what a healthy team could have achieved this year. Maybe this ECF run will curse the Pacers like the Hawks’ 2021 run did, by convincing them they’re ready to contend when they aren’t close.

    Shortened playoff rotations go back to the days of Riley. I’m just having a hard time with the beefing of minutes in playoff games where you’re supposed to go all out and win.

    We’re not the only team sandbagged with significant injuries during these playoffs. Looks like it’s catching up to us a little sooner than we’d all like – I’m sure the fans of Milwaukee, New Orleans and the Clippers (all 20,000 of them lol) have similar feelings.

    It sucks that the injury bug bit hard on what ended up being the first season that has mattered most in a long time. But this same season has revealed a superstar in Brunson. I also think the playoffs particularly has made us forget that Josh Hart is really a 6th man.

    We’re on the cusp of true title contention; I thought I would’ve needed to see this team reach the ECF to declare that, but Brunson’s ascent, watching his Nova partners punch up-weight, and OG’s impact during these playoffs has shown me what I needed to see.

    This team is aligned up and down the organization. And still has room to grow along with a good deal of financial flexibility for the time being. I’m happy – regardless of how much trolling my coworkers and my wife (who signed me up to FOUR Laker FB fan pages while I wasn’t looking over the wknd) hit me with.

    Well, that was a rough one.

    I am doing a 10,000 kettlebell swing challenge this month and have no energy to debate alternate histories.

    I have made my peace with Leon and Thibs. Leon hasn’t done anything stupid for a long time and has hit a couple of grand slams (Brunson, DDV, OG.) In Leon I trust.

    The Knicks have competed every single game this year like no other team in the NBA. If you have watched them you know they respect their coach. Teams that don’t are not dying on the floor like our guys. If he played OG 16 minutes more than he should have, who seriously cares? That’s well within the standard error.

    I am content with Knicks management in a way I haven’t been in 20 years. Maybe it could be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

    if anything, the minutes give our guys more exposure to get hurt… but im not buying its because they’re “tired”… not sure there’s much of a difference though (opportunity vs. exhaustion) at the end of the day

    DRose’s game was more reliant on explosive athleticism. While Brunson is hella athletic, he’s much more crafty in understanding angles and how to create space against almost any size defender.

    but the play on which OG pulled his hammy… it was a bang bang play, the pass was ahead of him, and he arguably sprinted harder than any other downcourt sprint he’s ever made…

    “Thibs injured OG” is the straw man.

    “Thibs consistently makes injuries more likely (and never learns)” is the argument.

    As is “Thibs puts useful players in the dungeon.”

    It’s hard to effectively counter those positions, so some folks are creating a stupid position they can make fun of because that’s what they do.

    cgreene, I also think you’re exactly right, thank you for that. And I think most people here, if there’s anyone left (and yeah, I came back again, I’m a failure, I admit it) agree with both parts.

    The unfortunate thing is that Hubert (and a couple of others) refuse to accept your third point “Both of these assertions are impossible to prove.” Even when faced with repeated examples of perfectly logical descriptions of what could be defined as random, shitty luck on otherwise normal plays. Instead, Hubert KNOWS each one is directly related to overuse, because narrative.

    He doesn’t know, because as you said it’s impossible to prove. Which is why this is so tiresome.

    1994:

    Knicks win first two at MSG.

    Pacers win next two In Indiana, including a 20 pt blowout in which Pat Riley plays John Starks, fresh off mid-season knee surgery, 37 minutes.

    And then game 5 happened. This should be fun.

    Two things can be true at the same time.
    1) We would never be in this position in the first place without Thibs and he is one of the top 5 coaches in the league.
    2) He has a bad tendency to overuse and tire out his players that could arguably lead to them getting injured and tired at the wrong time of year.

    A couple of points. I would agree with point #1… if Thibs didn’t play his best players 36+ minutes during the regular season to eek out a few ‘marginal’ wins, we would never have gotten home court in the playoffs and maybe fell into the play in. I think that is pretty much beyond dispute. That Thibs is a very good coach is also beyond dispute.

    The second point is littered with conditionals. not facts: “could” and “arguably”. There is considerable disagreement on point two. Hubert says things about insults and refusing to concede points. Personally, I don’t try to insult people (poke fun at them a bit maybe), but there is no point to concede. There is no metaphysical certitude that OG pulling a hammy had anything to do with him playing 40+ minutes in previous games. He had just come off a 4 day rest and had played one game with a day in between the 2/3rds of a game where he got hurt. The correlation is nothing but a supposition. Nothing to concede. And someone who disagrees with Hubie’s opinion isn’t a “dissident”, unless you are using the term to describe someone like Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, in which case we will accept the compliment 🙂

    i think we win 5…lose 6 and then win 7….

    we’re decimated…doesn’t matter why or how…just deal…and move on….

    and fuck carlisle…

    “Thibs consistently makes injuries more likely”, is the argument.

    If playing people who are paid to play basketball makes injuries more likely, then, yes, that is a hard one to dispute. But Thibs isn’t alone, as all coaches play players.

    The marginals minutes schtick is dumb and easily refutable, though. If you had any evidence that 36 is safe but 40 is not, you’d have shared it by now.

    You’re like The Rent Is Too Damn High guy, whose fix for every municipal issue from police reform to the path of the Macy’s Day Parade was that the rent was too damn high.

    Why are the Knicks injured? Because the minutes are too damn high.

    Why are they shooting 17% from three? Because the minutes are too damn high.

    Why is Ben Stiller sitting next to Chris Rock? Because the minutes are too damn high.

    How high should the minutes be? Right around the same level as the rent.

    DRose’s game was more reliant on explosive athleticism. While Brunson is hella athletic, he’s much more crafty in understanding angles and how to create space against almost any size defender.

    Agreed. I just don’t think those qualities in Brunson are any less reliant on the optimal functioning of his body than Rose’s athletic qualities were. It’s clear his foot isn’t close to right and he looks absolutely awful, a shell of his true self as a player. Feet problems can be some of most insidious chronic injuries due to the complexity of the anatomy involved. I’m worried about it.

    We might have a shot at more 3-point luck by starting Deuce, but like a scared old gambler, Thibs is in a defensive crouch playing weak tight.

    The irony is we haven’t even talked about how terrible his tactical work in this series has been. The Carlisle/Thibs mismatch has been as big as the Spo/Thibs mismatch was last year. It is hard to win at this level when the opposing coach is toying with yours.

    You gotta play the ref game, Thibs.

    Pags, we’re not losing I-Hart in free agency.

    And we’ll re-sign OG to a new contract filled with incentives based on availability (and if he is not willing to do so he can go fuck himself on some other teams infirmary, we don’t need porcelain players, let’s the Clippers ruin their seasons doing so).

    About next year, maybe we’ll win 2 or 3 less games, maybe we’ll not get the 2nd spot, but only two things matter: avoiding the play-in and reaching the playoffs healthy.
    At full streght this team is a contender.

    RE: the end of the bench
    While I undestand Leon’s conundrum, because it doesn’t make sense to pay good players for those roles when Thibs plays a 9-men rotation since october, I strongly want some fresh bodies from the draft instead of a bunch of quadruple-A types who would be better served playing in Europe instead.
    We have a chance to find helpful players at a controlled cost, please don’t fuck up the draft once again.

    Were banged up and down to like 2 good NBA players and the series is tied.

    The irony is we haven’t even talked about how terrible his tactical work in this series has been. The Carlisle/Thibs mismatch has been as big as the Spo/Thibs mismatch was last year. It is hard to win at this level when the opposing coach is toying with yours.

    You gotta play the ref game, Thibs.

    Great point, Hubert. I’ve watched this sport for 30 years and ref whining has paid off 100% of the time I’ve seen coaches go to it in a series. We saw Embiid get away with absolute murder in G3 after More’s ridiculous grievance, and we’re still suffering the effects of that game with the loss of Mitch.

    Officiating has clearly turned against us in this series as well, and we win G3 if not for the horrendous calls. Thibs’ classiness on this issue is just naive. Phil Jackson used to do this to us every goddamn time. Narratives matter and the NBA caves to media chatter at every turn.

    I didn’t get down on Thib’s minutes in the playoffs till the last game where he needlessly squandered a chance to rest his banged-up and tired team instead of chasing an impossible win. Maybe we still got enough rest to bounce back next game but I am not sure.

    Thibs has a reputation for a reason. It is not some big media conspiracy. Players on his teams play lots of minutes and players on his teams break down and get hurt at a higher rate than other coaches.

    Were OG’s and Brunson’s and Mitch’s injuries due to overuse, or playing hurt and making it worse? I don’t know. I don’t think anyone really knows. But he has his reputation for a reason. So watching him march out Brunson for 31 minutes in an absolute blowout on a hurt leg when no one on Indiana played over 28 and most players on both teams played less than 24 is troubling.

    That is all. No straw man, no grand arguments. It’s just frustrating to watch him repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

    And for those who do not think we are pushing our team too hard. Do you not think we looked gassed last game, more gassed than Indiana? Indiana has played the same number of playoff games, with the same amount of rest as us, and shouldn’t be any more rested or healthy but yet they are.

    Raven, you keep conflating the DRed/Swifty straw-man posts with my actual position. You’ve worked yourself up into a tizzy over something I didn’t even say. That’s on you, man. Jalen Brunson didn’t even get hurt yesterday.

    100% …we’re getting the calls tomorrow…we’re gonna get so many calls …carlisle’s head is going to implode…

    And for reference, no one on Indiana has averaged more than 35.4 minutes per game in the playoffs. While we have four players higher than that with 3 over 40 and one over 44. Same number of games, same amount of rest days yet they look fresh and we look exhausted.

    Maybe we need to figure out a way to be competitive without gassing our players. I concede that maybe it was absolutely necessary to play our players that much but I doubt it. We won a game in which OG didn’t play in the 4th and Brunson didn’t play in the 2nd. We almost and should have won a game in which OG didn’t play at all and Brunson was limited. Maybe our coach should have more faith that we can weather stretches of rest without completely collapsing because what I saw yesterday both in the fatigue of the team and Thib’s response to it was unacceptable and hopefully not a sign of the rest of the series.

    I just saw a clip of Zach Edy running 3/4 quart sprints at the combine and his running technique is uh unique

    Officiating has clearly turned against us in this series as well, and we win G3 if not for the horrendous calls. Thibs’ classiness on this issue is just naive. Phil Jackson used to do this to us every goddamn time. Narratives matter and the NBA caves to media chatter at every turn.

    The most obvious instance was when Nesmith (who has committed about 12 fouls/game guarding Brunson) landed in Brunson’s space potentially injuring his foot. That’s a perfect opportunity for you to influence the next game and get some space for your star but he passed.

    And that’s just the off court stuff. On the court, he once again has nothing to go to after Plan A. I actually supported the Precious tactic but it wasn’t working and we didn’t have to wait til we were down 30 to adjust.

    And what exactly are we doing to either get Nesmith off Brunson? Seemed like nothing.

    Pags, we’re not losing I-Hart in free agency.

    And we’ll re-sign OG to a new contract filled with incentives based on availability (and if he is not willing to do so he can go fuck himself on some other teams infirmary, we don’t need porcelain players, let’s the Clippers ruin their seasons doing so).

    This is analytical off-day Pags talking here, not game-day unhinged unconditional doom Pags. I honestly think we’re being wildly unrealistic about retaining iHart. This is an absolutely terrible FA class. There’s going to be a lot of dollars chasing not a lot of talent. The history shows that those dollars get spent. In a similar environment Timofey Mozgov got a bigger contract as a % of the cap than iHart is about to get, and he was barely an NBA player.

    EPM thinks iHart is All-NBA level, the 3rd best C in the league. EPM has very few results that don’t pass the laugh test and is largely respected by NBA decision makers. BPM says he’s the 27th best player in the league and 7th best C. iHart is REALLY good.

    When has a player of that caliber who is young, durable, and a good team guy gone for anything close to the MLE type package we’ll be able to offer? It’s just not realistic.

    And regarding OG, we have zero leverage here. If we lose him for nothing it’s a team building disaster and we have no path to recovering the assets we spent to get him. You’d better believe he’ll have very strong offers in this market. Philly will likely have their max offer on the table at 12:01 AM. The time to rethink signing him was before the trade. Right now that move is absolutely mandatory.

    The thing I’ve found especially fascinating about these playoffs is how much vitriol I feel. Not toward people on this board (well on occasion), but at the other teams. I HATED Philly and Joel and pretty much the rest of them except for Maxey, and I went into the Pacers series with nothing but respect and now I HATE Carlisle and TJ and others.

    Is this what being a fan is really like? Or are these two teams especially despicable? If it’s the first, how did I miss it all these years of cheering for sports teams, and if it’s the latter, why do I suspect that if the Knicks do pull off two more wins, I’ll hate the Celtics even more?

    Well okay, it’s the Celtics so of course. But it almost feels like there’s something in the air, the same thing that’s causing our great political schism.

    Something that crossed my mind with approximately 2% seriousness that I’m sharing here in a doomed attempt to change the subject from things we’re totally speculating about:

    What if we trotted out Brunson-Hart-Precious-iHart-Sims and just tried to get every single rebound?

    Players on his teams play lots of minutes and players on his teams break down and get hurt at a higher rate than other coaches.

    this kind of sounds quantifiable…i wonder if it’s a true statement…

    considering our own perspective, it’s tough to be objective…

    although to be honest, a basketball blog isn’t exactly the place I’d expect to find reasonable objective insight all the time…

    The most obvious instance was when Nesmith (who has committed about 12 fouls/game guarding Brunson) landed in Brunson’s space potentially injuring his foot. That’s a perfect opportunity for you to influence the next game and get some space for your star but he passed.

    And that’s just the off court stuff. On the court, he’s just got nothing to go to after Plan A. I actually supported the Precious tactic but it wasn’t working and we didn’t have to wait til we were down 30 to adjust.

    And what exactly are we doing to get Nesmith off Brunson? Seemed like nothing.

    Facts. If Carlisle sent 78 clips, we should be sending 88, even if we only have 50. What you get is always a subset of what you ask for.

    This isn’t just about winning the series, it’s about protecting our best player in 30 years from getting hurt. If there’s anything the league SHOULD care about, it’s avoiding injury to a popular rising star in a major market. Just look at the response to that Kawhi injury in terms of the rules around landing space.

    This IS the way to get Nesmith off Brunson. They had to go to Nembhard in G1-2 because Nesmith fouled him every time, but then the whistles suddenly stopped coming…

    I believe we will resign IHart mainly because I think he wants to be here and our max is probably only a couple million at most less than the offers he will get. I don’t see him getting $100 million over 4 or anything like that.

    I think we will also resign OG but I am very worried it will be at an unpleasant number. You are right that we have no leverage and some team is going to take a swing and offer the max or very close to it and I think we will be forced to match. I hope he resigns right away because then maybe we get a deal but that seems unlikely.

    Raven,

    I went into the Philly series agnostic about them, then Embiid played like a thug and injured people and Nurse made his worst to be hated.
    I’ve a ton of respect for Maxey after this series, because he didn’t whine, he just played as hard as he can and he was graceful even in losses.

    Same thing with the Pacers, I had a good opinion about Carlisle before, but his antics and his nonsense about big market teams soured me.
    I was more aware about Hali from his behaviour agaist the Bucks during the IST, now I think he’s a loser and wish him all the worst.

    I don’t like the Celtics but so far I haven’t seen or heard nothing in their games to make me “hate” them (in a sport sense).

    Same old story for Thibs, one that’s been obvious for years.

    Too cliquish and clannish, has his boys, rallies around his boys, shuns outsiders and people that don’t fit his narrow vision.(*) Ultimately this leads to Dungeons (TM) for guys on the roster and missed opportunities to acquire and roster useful players. The dungeons and clannishness in turn lead to overreliance on his boys, and then in turn to too many minutes and overuse of his boys which in turn leads to fatigue and injury and a lowered ceiling.

    Were he political rather than a basketball coach, the term that would fit him perfectly would be “sectarian.” He is the Sinn Fein or the Orange Order of basketball coaches.

    We’re seeing it play out this spring — yet again.

    Can he be “defended” by people using defense lawyer-ish tools — things like “you can’t prove that definitively” or “you haven’t definitively attributed that particular problem to him and him alone”? Sure, pretty much anything can be, but there are ways of understanding and comprehending other than a formal “trial.”

    (*) And like clannish types everywhere, look out below if you happen to fall out of favor after being a clan in-guy, for whatever arbitrary reasons these things take. See, e.g., Quentin Grimes.

    I think Hartensteins mediocre playoffs will (rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly) keep his price down.

    What if we trotted out Brunson-Hart-Precious-iHart-Sims and just tried to get every single rebound?

    i like this idea a lot because i have third party life insurance on jalen brunson

    I’ve never liked Carlisle- an overrated coach and a prick- but Hali is acting like an enormous baby with his flopping and his frontrunning shit talking. I still can’t make up my mind if it would be more galling to get annihilated by the Celtics or lose a tough fight to the Pacers.

    I still think we need to start McBride if OG is out. That lineup is good and I don’t think Indiana can punish our lack of size.

    We have used a 7 man rotation for much of the playoffs and I feel like until OG is back that is where we are again. This time it is less of a choice since after Burks and Precious it is pretty bleak.

    36 minutes for the starters and 30 minutes each for Burks and Precious. Give or take a couple here or there.

    We probably will, Ben R. When Thibs makes a halftime switch it’s usually a precursor to a change in the next game’s starting lineup.

    I do think Burks has made himself a viable option, though. Our best 5 is probably Brunson-Donte-Burks-Hart-Hartenstein.

    IMHO Sims earned some playing time for his hard screen on McConnell alone. We need more of that.

    Can we put this minutes restriction question to bed by looking at statistics of whether injury rate/36 is positively correlated with minutes played?

    I hope you are right.

    Burks is definitely playing better but I still think the lineup with McBride over Burks is quite a bit better. But we need both players to step up if we want to win.

    My passive aggressive Chrome extension Knickerblocker is now live!

    If you’re like me, and would rather not simply scroll past dozens of infuriating posts by certain unnamed individuals on this forum – this extension is for you!

    Install it, open the extension’s options, and add/remove names to your heart’s content. Keep in mind that the name matching is case-sensitive, because I put as little effort into this as possible. Still, I suppose it was more effort than simply skipping posts manually. Well, leave me a five star review? Or not!

    Can we put this minutes restriction question to bed by looking at statistics of whether injury rate/36 is positively correlated with minutes played?

    You gonna find something that proves it wasn’t stupid to play Brunson 31 of the first 33 minutes on an injured foot in a blowout?

    Can we put this minutes restriction question to bed by looking at statistics of whether injury rate/36 is positively correlated with minutes played?

    It’s not simply about minutes. It’s more about playing guys when they’re hurt or exhausted. I think Thibs is sometimes too aggressive in playing guys through injuries or having them push through fatigue, which often leads to new injuries or reaggravation of existing injuries. But I think the positions around Thibs have been made clear so I am ready to see what happens next.

    I just really hope we can get healthy and rested before the end of the series. If we do this might be a blessing because moving forward into the next round Thibs might trust Precious, Burks, and McBride more which will hopefully keep this from repeating again against Boston or in the finals.

    Our only hope is maximum variance. Play 4-out all game with 50+ 3PM. Brunson/Deuce/DDV/Hart/iHart. Use Burks and Milton to spell spots 1-4. Milton is a 36% career shooter.

    Make sure Thibs tells the guys to make at least half the threes. Protect the rim and hope Indy’s shooters are cold. Have Thibs go full on Donald Trump and hold a press conference pre-game saying he knows for a fact G5 is rigged, but only if we lose. Accept the million dollar fine. Maybe even run a GoFundMe for Knicks fans to donate. Bask in the glory of 40+ FTA despite shooting all threes.

    Then hope this works twice.

    players on his teams break down and get hurt at a higher rate than other coaches.

    [citation needed]

    I’ve never liked Carlisle- an overrated coach and a prick- but Hali is acting like an enormous baby with his flopping and his frontrunning shit talking.

    This.

    I know we are supposed to get annoyed at our opponents but with Embiid and Nurse and now Hali and Carlise I think it is next level. They are pretty hard to put up with. Embiid is still the worst and deserves every injury he has but this series is annoying as well.

    And the media just eats it up and loves to shit on the Knicks which makes it all even more unbearable.

    It’s more about playing guys when they’re hurt or exhausted.

    Julius Randle wasn’t hurt or exhausted when a Miami Heat player jumped in front of him at the last millesecond trying to draw a charge and he seperated his shoulder.

    Mitch wasn’t hurt or exhausted when Joel Embiid pulled up down to the ground and reinjured him.

    Bojan wasn’t hurt or exhausted when a player dove into his leg.

    And OG wasn’t hurt or exhausted when he hurt his hamstring. It happened halfway through the third quarter. If he was “exhausted” how would OG have been able to have his best game of the playoffs up until that point? They get 20 minutes of rest at halftime. Do people think Thibs has them running cardio at halftime?

    ‘Sims earned some playing time for his hard screen on McConnell alone.’

    Agreements are sometimes hard to find on this board, but this. By far the best moment in that whole game (which also says something about the game) was seeing TJ just flattened — bounced and laid out like road kill.

    My passive aggressive Chrome extension Knickerblocker is now live!

    Sweet! I’ve used it to block your posts, which add little to the discourse here beyond incessant complaining about the mere existence of viewpoints you don’t like.

    Julius Randle wasn’t hurt or exhausted when a Miami Heat player jumped in front of him at the last millesecond trying to draw a charge and he seperated his shoulder.

    Mitch wasn’t hurt or exhausted when Joel Embiid pulled up down to the ground and reinjured him.

    Bojan wasn’t hurt or exhausted when a player dove into his leg.

    And OG wasn’t hurt or exhausted when he hurt his hamstring. It happened halfway through the third quarter. If he was “exhausted” how would OG have been able to have his best game of the playoffs up until that point? They get 20 minutes of rest at halftime. Do people think Thibs has them running cardio at halftime?

    I have not claimed that Thibs is directly responsible for any of the injuries. I have mainly complained about him using Brunson in game 4 too much while he is hurt. Also, Mitch played 3 games after Embiid hurt him and now he is out. Maybe it was inevitable, but maybe if we had rested him a week he would have healed up enough to be able to finish the playoffs. I have no idea.

    As for OG, he seems to break down when he plays a lot of minutes in a row. If you look at his game logs in past seasons there is often a stretch of games right before he goes down for the first time in a season where he plays more minutes than usual and then misses a bunch of games. It’s happened twice this year alone. Fatigue and muscle strain build in the body so just because he had rest over halftime does not mean his body was not fatigued. Maybe it’s unrelated but I don’t know.

    But the past is the past and now we just need to get healthy and win 2 of the next 3. We need a rested and healthy Brunson. I hope he will be right by tomorrow or we are in trouble.

    Swifty, we’re talking Jalen Brunson and the thing that happened yesterday.

    There’s some truth on both sides of this argument. Thibs is a maniac with his minutes and doesn’t think at all about load management, but at the same time we suffered at least two key injuries that were of the “freak” variety.

    He’s also the most anxiety riddled coach I’ve ever seen and if he doesn’t trust you he’ll exile you even if the situation calls for taking a chance on you. But at the same time, the guys who DO play have one million percent buy-in.

    He’s a man of multitudes under that combover.

    There’s some truth on both sides of this argument. Thibs is a maniac with his minutes and doesn’t think at all about load management, but at the same time we suffered at least two key injuries that were of the “freak” variety.

    He’s also the most anxiety riddled coach I’ve ever seen and if he doesn’t trust you he’ll exile you even if the situation calls for taking a chance on you. But at the same time, the guys who DO play have one million percent buy-in.

    He’s a man of multitudes under that combover.

    This. Right here. I agree with this fully.

    My problem was never the initial injuries but his reaction to them which often seems to cause further breakdown and fatigue.

    But he is a big reason we are here so here’s hoping he continues to learn and we get healthy.

    but at the same time we suffered at least two key injuries that were of the “freak” variety.

    We have near unanimity that Thibs isn’t responsible for every injury. And contrary to Raven’s table pounding we don’t claim to know that the injuries are directly related to overuse. These are straw men.

    We’re mad about what Thibs did yesterday and about Alec Burks being the latest guy to prove the dungeon is a mistake.

    Everything else is a distraction.

    Well said, Hubs. That is the cogent case against Thibs. The minutes -> injury thing is a distraction; it’s the rigidity and the stubbornness, unwilling to bend until it’s too little, too late.

    In this series, it likely already is.

    Is Thibs the reason for the Knicks success ?

    Or is it Jalen Brunsons emergence and the Nova chemistry that was already built and the immense value OG adds to a team.

    Perhaps we are overlooking the fact that the Pacers are actually a pretty good team.

    They are legit 12 deep and only Mathurin is injured. They shoot the three incredibly well (their best 3pt shooter Jalen Smith barely plays, and they don’t even need to use McDermott).

    Hali and Siakam are legit all-stars. They defend the 3pt line very well and get out in transition easily. If they’re shooting well, they are a very tough to beat.

    But if they had our injury woes (say, Siakam, Nesmith, and Turner were all out for the series), they wouldn’t stand a chance against us, especially if we were fully healthy.

    The fact that we are tied 2-2 in this series is actually pretty amazing.

    Is Thibs the reason for the Knicks success ?

    Or is it Jalen Brunsons emergence and the Nova chemistry that was already built and the immense value OG adds to a team.

    Thibs’ first two Knicks teams weren’t exactly known for their “never say die” attitude. In fact they laid down three times in the Hawks series and then staggered through a disappointing 37 win campaign that was most known for collapsing when ahead.

    Well, leave me a five star review? Or not!

    Unless it’s impossible to block cybersoze, you’re not getting the 5 stars. 😛 😀

    I nominate tastycakes as commenter of the century. Works just as advertised!

    Perhaps we are overlooking the fact that the Pacers are actually a pretty good team.

    Not me. I was worried about this series.

    That team that lost to the Hawks was full of shitty players that Thibs managed to squeeze wins out of. Reggie fucking Bullock played 2000 minutes for that team. Nerlens Noel and Elfrid Payton were mainstays of the rotation. I don’t know what else we were expecting out of that collection of mediocre journeymen.

    Sweet! I’ve used it to block your posts, which add little to the discourse here beyond incessant complaining about the mere existence of viewpoints you don’t like.

    So please leave the 5 star review, if you liked it so much. 😛

    The narrative that the pacers have somehow unlocked something by putting Nesmith on Brunson is frustrating. He is clearly not right and if he was he’d be cooking Nesmith much like he cooked both Batum and Oubre.

    I want us to come back and kick Indiana in the teeth so bad.

    The narrative that the pacers have somehow unlocked something by putting Nesmith on Brunson is frustrating. He is clearly not right and if he was he’d be cooking Nesmith much like he cooked both Batum and Oubre.

    It doesn’t help when the coach starts a non shooter in Precious and makes it harder for your best player to operate.

    I love this team and it won’t be a blowout loss that’s going to change that. I feel back in the 90s, i love these guys. Yeah, Thibs and Leon too. I’ve said it! Now when we’re in the Finals, please don’t try to say you love (or believe in) the team more than me. 🧡💙

    We’re mad about what Thibs did yesterday and about Alec Burks being the latest guy to prove the dungeon is a mistake.

    You’re mad about theoreticals, instead of being glad about actual, real-life events that are good.

    The Knicks are still playing basketball in mid-May; the Knicks still have home court advantage in this series; Jalen Brunson is still able to play everyday despite being criminally overworked by his inhuman warlord; Alec Burks [sic] may be able to contribute yet; etc…

    Every time piagliacci et al say the end is near, the end hasn’t been near. That’s a good thing!

    So please leave the 5 star review, if you liked it so much. 😛

    I actually don’t think it’s good for the blog or the community, so I won’t. This is sort of like the rise of Fox News/CNN/MSNBC to replace the shared reality of the 20th century. We’ll now have separate, fractured silos from which we’ll all have given up on civility and persuasion.

    I want us to come back and kick Indiana in the teeth so bad.

    Me too, Ben. Unfortunately kicking tends to require a working set of legs.

    Here’s the thing. Fully healthy I still think the Pacers would have had at least one game in this series where they shoot really well and blow us out of hte water.

    If we won game 3, which we should have, this would have been a non-issue.

    Whatever. Tired of being mad at people here for arguing about something. Not going to change anyone’s mind but also not going to block anyone. It’s all love (for the most part, lol).

    We just gotta pull out the next game. Then we get an extra day of rest before game 6. Maybe OG is back by then (yeah, right).

    The series is tied. I just want one more win mainly cause last 2 times we got to the second round, we lost in 6. It’s stupid but even winning just one more would feel like progress compared to last year.

    Whatever happens, Leon HAS to discuss minutes management with Thibs in the off season. We don’t need to Kawhi anyone with extreme load management, but if he makes some draft picks and brings this team back, Leon has to get Thibs to play a 10 man rotation all season. No reason not too. And the 11th, 12th, 13th guys on the team need to be given ocassional opportunities beyone just garbage time, especially if they are picks we’ve made.

    You’re mad about theoreticals, instead of being glad about actual, real-life events that are good.

    Thibs didn’t theoretically play Brunson 31 of 33 minutes in a rout. And I am glad about many things, including the pleasant conversations I can have here with the folks who aren’t intolerant.

    You’re mad about theoreticals, instead of being glad about actual, real-life events that are good.

    see, this right here is why I became a disciple of the Do What Donnie Do school of fandom…

    here’s an analogy for ya – think of fandom as being served a juicy steak with mashed potatoes – and there’s like some asparagus, or some other weird veggie included on the plate…

    push that subpar stuff to the side – and enjoy the steak and mashed taters…

    seriously, thanks to donnie – I don’t really have bad knick days anymore…

    Edit: okay Al, mister I don’t like gravy…

    test time – what if anything are you pouring over the steak and mashed potatoes…

    and, even if it is only the pan drippings – that’s still like a gravy…

    @NBA_NewYork
    Mike Breen on OG Anunoby: “…I don’t think he’s gonna play tomorrow, I’d be surprised even if he played Friday, maybe towards the weekend there’s a chance. But right now from what I’ve heard in the last previous couple days, he’s not close”

    Breen basically Knicks news reporter

    @NBA_NewYork
    Mike Breen on OG Anunoby: “…I don’t think he’s gonna play tomorrow, I’d be surprised even if he played Friday, maybe towards the weekend there’s a chance. But right now from what I’ve heard in the last previous couple days, he’s not close”

    Breen basically Knicks news reporter

    Well shit. Series ends Friday if he doesn’t play, so close yet so far away…

    Thibs didn’t theoretically play Brunson 31 of 33 minutes in a rout.

    But it is theoretically a bad thing that he played that much. That doesn’t seem worth being mad about.

    “I agree with this fully.”

    Not me. It’s not a comb-over if it is basically a dead mouse perched on his forehead.

    Thibs didn’t theoretically play Brunson 31 of 33 minutes in a rout.

    you keep bringin up this math but it’s a completely arbitrary end point.

    At 33 minutes BRunson was pulled and didn’t play the rest of the game.

    They weren’t down by 30 points two minutes into the game. So Thibs was going to play him in the first half like he normally does. And there isn’t a single coach on the planet who wouldn’t at least try to make a comeback in the second half after half time with his star player. So he played him as much as he normally would play him and then pulled him when it was obvious we weren’t making a comback.

    I thought there was a pretty good chance Indy was going to beat us before the series started so I’m not feeling good about our odds now, but it’s only a couple games and some unlikely shit could happen.

    Geez, geo, and I’m filled with rage and hate. I want to level their villages and salt their fields. And then sit down to a juicy steak cut from their still mooing cows.

    I am impressed, Donnie. I’ve tried veganism, off and on, mostly off. May try again when the lad’s out of the house (pretty sure he has social services on speed dial…).

    no gravy on a steak…A1 perhaps…or you can do like a bordelaise…

    if its a piece of leather…than i guess you can do the gravy…

    one of my favorite bbq place t shirts…i got in brownsville tx had this on the back of it

    “I didn’t claw my way to to the top of the food chain ….just to eat vegetables”

    I didn’t realize that Rockets #3 pick is actually Brooklyn’s. It’s one of the ones they gave up for Harden.

    Also this is the only Atlanta pick San Antonio didn’t have rights to from the Murray trade. They could have ended up 1, 4, and 8.

    Brooklyn is pretty much the reason Boston is so good.

    Yup, their trade for 36 and 37 year old KG and Pierce, who had already fallen off a cliff the year before, is probably the most lopsided deal in NBA history.

    Selling high on aging stars is what created the two richest teams in the league: them and OKC. Hope we learn from that when the time comes for Brandle.

    There’s some truth on both sides of this argument. Thibs is a maniac with his minutes and doesn’t think at all about load management, but at the same time we suffered at least two key injuries that were of the “freak” variety.

    He’s also the most anxiety riddled coach I’ve ever seen and if he doesn’t trust you he’ll exile you even if the situation calls for taking a chance on you. But at the same time, the guys who DO play have one million percent buy-in.

    He’s a man of multitudes under that combover.

    I much prefer people who garner professional respect and admiration from all types of people to those who engender fierce loyalty in a small niche of people. The latter are often fanatics.

    I actually don’t think it’s good for the blog or the community, so I won’t. This is sort of like the rise of Fox News/CNN/MSNBC to replace the shared reality of the 20th century. We’ll now have separate, fractured silos from which we’ll all have given up on civility and persuasion.

    Geez, you can’t even take a joke.

    no gravy on a steak…A1 perhaps…or you can do like a bordelaise…

    if its a piece of leather…than i guess you can do the gravy…

    okay pepper, i’ll just say – A1 sauce on steak is some serious trailer park eats 😛

    okay, good steak, no gravy needed, point taken…bordelaise does sounds so sexy, and yummy though…

    more importantly pepper – what are you gonna do about the mashed potatoes?

    you almost need something – if only for aesthetics..

    Edit: Geez, geo, and I’m filled with rage and hate.

    i got nervous for a second reading that…i thought maybe some of my true thoughts and feelings may have leaked out – you had sensed what i was really thinking and feeling, and then figured out by comparison you weren’t as fucked up as me…whew – doing my best to keep the rage under wraps…

    what are you gonna do about the mashed potatoes?

    generally…if i’m grilling up a steak…i’m making roasted potatoes (thinly sliced, i think jowles had a recipe for this a few yrs back)…no gravy needed or if i’m lazy doing a bag of fries or tater tots…if I do mashed…i’ll roast some garlic in the oven and mash that with some olive oil and rosemary and mash into the potatoes…so no gravy needed either…

    I have to say…i was a no A1 guy for many yrs…but i found it can enhance from time to time…at the end of the day…nothing can cover up a shitty piece of meat…it’s gotta stand on its own…

    I’m not feeling good about our odds now, but it’s only a couple games and some unlikely shit could happen

    yeah wow, i kinda refuse to give up totally too. 2019 me could never have dreamed of such unbridled optimism…

    Mitch went under the knife again…

    If Mitch can play 50 games a season going forward and be available in the playoffs that’s a best case scenario.

    Been enjoying pan fry, 4 minutes a side, then throw in, I believe the official term is, a fuckton of butter, minced garlic, and rosemary, 1 minute a side. Slice and serve. You can throw the slices back in the cooling pan for 30 to soak up more goo, but gotta avoid well done.

    Geez, you can’t even take a joke.

    I did appreciate your humor, but I care about the quality of this blog and I thought the issue was worth addressing. The “bunch of friends shooting the shit at the sports bar” motif will take a hit if no one can hear anyone who disagrees with them.

    If Mitch can play 50 games a season going forward and be available in the playoffs that’s a best case scenario.

    I think it’s been clear for awhile that we need to move him. I can tolerate OG’s fragility because he’s a massive plus on both ends, but Mitch is a straight liability on offense now. It’s not just that fouling him is a free ticket to a 37% TS possession, he also can’t finish anything anymore. His dunk rate is down to half of what it was 2 years ago and his 60% shooting at the rim is absolutely atrocious. It’s unacceptable to have a center who can only dunk be *checks notes* 14th on the team in TS%.

    The problem is I don’t think anybody will trade for Mitch without an asset being added on. Mitch can’t stay on the court and is owed 15 million a year as a rim running center.

    Evan Sidery
    @esidery
    With the Hawks likely to select Alex Sarr at No. 1 overall, Clint Capela becomes a probable trade candidate this offseason.

    Capela is on a $22.3 million expiring contract after averaging 11.5 points, 10.6 rebounds and 1.5 blocks.

    For interested teams, it won’t be too costly

    I think teams would rather have Capela as well. He played 73 games last year

    Bronny measured 6’1″ at the combine, let’s see what kind of market there is for 6’1″ guards who can’t shoot and averaged 5 points a game

    Thank God i fell asleep yesterday after we went down big…
    Worst case scenario is watching 2 more Knicks playoff games and go for summer vavations.
    Best is continue the fight till we have nothing left in our energy tank
    I’ll take it

    I was pretty excited to see what Wemby running the pick and roll with a 7’1″ flush artist would look like but I guess watching Trae Young brick away Sarr’s early prime could be good too

    let’s see what kind of market there is for 6’1″ guards who can’t shoot and averaged 5 points a game

    at this point in his life, his dad is probably shrinking but you still have to add the 6’7″ point forward that comes as a set with the miniature version

    Do we bring back Burks next year, on a cheaper or even a similar contract?

    We only have a few routes to improve our depth and draft picks are a crap shoot (assuming we make any). So we kinda need to bring him back based on this playoff sample, no?

    Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

    ESPN Sources: Cleveland Cavaliers star Donovan Mitchell — who’s averaging nearly 30 points in playoffs — will miss Game 4 vs. the Boston Celtics tonight with a left calf strain. Huge loss for Cavs in a telltale home game down 2-1 in series. pic.twitter.com/fCaUymh6i0

    @IanBegley: Indiana’s Tyrese Haliburton (low back spasms, sacral contusion, ankle sprain) is questionable for tomorrow’s Game 5, per the NBA injury report.

    Fake! I’d bet a lot that he is playing. I guess they’ll be doing this for the rest of the series to protect him, in case Brunson plays a lot better than their diva, this will be the excuse. Brunson is clearly hobbled and isn’t on our injury report.

    little switch up for the moment…just checked the schedule and the yanks have the twins coming up for a 3 game set…

    looking at the yanks schedule this year makes me keep checking their strength of schedule – it only ranks 26th of 30 teams…

    it just feels like the yanks keep playing good teams each series…

    Sucks Mitchell can’t go because there’s no reason to watch the game but if he wants to prioritize staying healthy for his Knicks career I can’t be mad

    Sucks Mitchell can’t go because there’s no reason to watch the game but if he wants to prioritize staying healthy for his Knicks career I can’t be mad

    Isn’t it annoying how other superstar guards sit out must-win games with one injury while our opponent’s PG has 3 injuries but still plays at 100% effectiveness?

    and there’s like some asparagus, or some other weird veggie included on the plate…

    Speak for yourself buddy🤣. My wife and I love us some grilled or sautéed asparagus with our steaks 😁

    Peas need to make a resurgence. Asparagus is the hot thing for awhile now.

    Cavs within 1! Wouldn’t it be hilarious if they won this and ECF was IND-CLE?

    It’ll be like those early 2000’s Finals where the East was just a tourney to see who gets swept by the Lakers.

    Official Acceptable Vegatable List:

    1). Peas
    2). Green Beans
    3). Brocoli
    4). Spinach
    5). Tomato (technically a fruit)
    6). Corn (gotta be careful though – that stuff just doesn’t break down so well)
    7). Potatoes

    I think that’s it…I am pretty positive there are no other acceptable vegetables which exist…

    Do we bring back Burks next year, on a cheaper or even a similar contract?

    no…no we do not…draft 2 players, bring back almost whole squad, no sims, no burks…

    oops, forgot celery (filled with egg salad or dipped in ranch)…

    and also pickles, bread and butter and sweet jerkins…no cucumbers though…

    they can get added in on the list…

    We are keeping Mitch unless he’s part of a star trade. We’d be selling low on him if we didn’t. Plus, if we retain iHart and platoon our centers, he should be able to stay healthy… he just needs to cut out the southern cooking at this point in his career.

    I’m honestly more worried about Randle. That battering ram shoulder is now a ticking time bomb. Will he become more of a perimeter player next year? Because we really need him as a post player. I hope he comes back as effective as he was this year, but I wouldn’t bet money on it.

    My favorite vegetable dish in the world is Chinese stir-fried pea shoots.

    We are keeping Mitch unless he’s part of a star trade. We’d be selling low on him if we didn’t.

    Would they? I don’t think opposing teams would want Mitch eating up salary cap space and missing half the season.

    Chandler Parsons never made it out of the 1st round in his career, how does he “know a thing or two about playing long seasons”?

    This is what it means to have the Knicks relevant again. People talk shit for clicks. Enjoy it.

    Better than just the laugh emoji whenever “Knicks” comes up.

    Is there really a market for Trae Young right now? He hasn’t been very good… I guess maybe the Spurs have interest but who else? The Lakers, but they don’t have many good trade pieces.

    Ridiculous call in Luka’s favor at the final possession as he slips and falls. You just know Brunson would not get that call and then get roasted all over Reddit for foul baiting.

    EDIT: Huge FT miss from Luka though. He’s been much less efficient than Brunson despite the far superior whistle.

    I like how this thread is 1 part complaining that Thibs doesn’t know how to keep his players healthy and 1 part complaining that vegetables are gross.

    I don’t know donnie, between Rough with his “Chinese stir-fried pea shoots.” and Pepper with the Egg Foo Young stuff…

    the odds of me hitting Rui’s Shanghai Bistro and munching on some food goodies (including veggies) is highly likely…

    if you ever stray away from LA a bit, let me know – we can make it a meal for two at Rui’s 😊

    Brian, please be careful with your heading for the next game thread. You mentioned Mother’s Day Massacre in the last such title and it came true, just not for the right team.

    On another matter, my back of the envelop calculations suggest that the new TV contracts are going to raise the salary cap by approximately $70M per team after the 2024-2025 season. Of course there is averaging, which will spread that rise over a two or three years. But it’s still a lot of money and teams are probably going to know the numbers before upcoming free agency period. My guess is that some teams are going to spend that money in advance by giving out big extensions. We should probably save whatever bucks we have for the year after.

    Before we begin today’s inevitable discussion about player overuse, how about a group sing along to Seasons of Love from Rent?

    Ready?

    🎶 “Five hundred twenty-five thousand, six hundred minutes” 🎶

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