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[All U Can Heat] – Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:11:56 GMT
Did Heat’s decision not to pursue rival star cost them a championship?
[Basketball Network] – Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:28:00 GMT
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[New York Post] – Tue, 26 Mar 2024 06:10:00 GMT
Struggling Alec Burks misses Knicks’ win over Pistons with sprained shoulder
87 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.03.27)”
On the one hand, backup PG is one of our bigger needs this offseason, regardless of whether Leon pulls off a bigger move. On the other, our European contingent hasn’t been overwhelmingly positive about Rokas so far. I would guess he’s part of a summer trade, whether big or small.
Can someone pls explain the rationale behind the $16mm iHart rule?
Hartenstein only signed a two year deal with the Knicks. Three consecutive seasons are required to retain a player’s full Bird rights. Two consecutive seasons only grants Early Bird rights.
Early Bird rights allow you to sign a player for up to either 175% of his previous year’s salary or 105% of the average league salary in the first year, then you can add raises. Thus the max the Knicks can offer iHart is something like 4 years, $72mm.
Perhaps the larger question is what is the rationale for the Early Bird Rights rule? I understand on some level why guys who’ve been on your team for one year shouldn’t have full Bird rights, because otherwise every team would try to game the salary cap system by signing players to one-year contracts with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge to give them bigger deals afterwards. But once you get past a single season, is there really that much difference between having someone in your building for two years versus three?
I think there is, Alan. Two years still falls under the “take a flier” category to me. If the Knicks had signed him to three years that would have been a much bigger risk, and thus they would have earned the reward. But we (reasonably) hedged our bet, and by limiting our downside we have to accept the limit on the upside.
I agree with you Hubie, and would add that year 2 flips into “he’s an expiring” which makes it look more like a 1 year risk.
Yankees couldn’t beat one year for Jordan Montgomery?
I told you when they signed Soto they would use his acquisition as an excuse to leave all the gaping holes on the team unplugged.
A top objective of the CBA for the league is to equalize small and big markets by making building through the draft superior to through free agency. Anything that makes building through FA less effective is desirable. I bet the league would choose to make bird rights only work for players you draft, but that would too directly restrict player movement, which is very important to players. 3 years for full bird rights means you can extend a rookie contract with bird rights… meshes nicely with building via draft. 2 years not so much.
Allegedly, they only wanted him or Snell if it was going to be a longer contract so they could lower the 1-for-1 luxury tax hit they’d get on a one-year deal, which would have cost them $50 million even though Montgomery would only be making $25.
I don’t care about any of that. If Hal isn’t willing to let the Yankees act like the Yankees — especially when they still have Soto, Judge, and Cole (when healthy) at the peak of their powers — then sell the damn team. People always point to the overall payroll, rather than looking at percentage of overall team revenue that gets put into payroll. In the former, the Yankees are among the tops in the sport. In the latter, they are, last I checked, not too far ahead of the Rays.
And good points on 2 vs 3-year contracts, all. I was just curious for philosophical takes on it.
Now if we can just ensure that Vildoza… I mean, Rokas, is in the playoff rotation, then all will be well!
It has been extremely frustrating. The Yankees are at a point in the win curve where each win is immensely valuable – even before you take into account that there are only so many years left of prime Judge/Cole. It’s not just that the amount they spend compared to their revenue is tiny, it’s also that they used to be so far ahead of everyone and now they aren’t even competitive against the Dodgers for example.
What’s also annoying is that this isn’t even sustainable. The Yankees traded more players than any other team these last couple of years to fill holes that were obvious in the offseason. So you end up not getting cheap production from prospects while overpaying for your own players (the DJ contract was bad before the ink dried).
I will never forgive Hal for reducing payroll in 2018 the year after they were one game away from the World Series against a cheating Houston team.
I should just go to Yankeesblogger.net.
Maybe, just maybe I Hart didn’t want a 3-4 year deal at 8M/year and was willing to bet on himself. If so, congrats to him…. if not, seemingly Rose out bid the competition and did so at excellent value.
it’s always hard to say what the true rationale is for negotiated outcomes, since the underlying mechanism is often just “where the two sides managed to compromise” and then the best sensible explanation is appended after the fact. the original bird rights rule from 1983 required only one year of service and stayed that way until the 1995 cba, when the 3-year minimum AND early bird rights were first introduced. some people today describe that as a reaction to a couple of gaming incidents, especially danny manning’s 1-year contract with the suns in 1994, where he took way under market and then got a big deal to stay despite tearing his acl that season.
but it’s very nebulous to go with that (preventing gaming) as the actual rationale, since at the time and for the next several years david stern was aggressively trying to eliminate the bird exception altogether, seeing it as working in concert with the soft salary cap to push up player share of BRI. when the league opted out of the deal and locked the players out in 1998, they tried even harder to get rid of bird rights altogether.
the best explanation might just be that the owners managed to limit the extent of the bird exception, and this is the most the players would agree to. the fact that two years is never going to be magically different than three years is just an inescapable sorites paradox feature of all line drawing and compromises. to be fair, the cba doesn’t treat it as entirely binary either, since early bird is still treated differently than non-bird. as joe smith proved, it is still possible to try to game a two or even three-year exception, just more difficult.
Unfortunately, you don’t have a vote, Hal does. He’s not selling this cash cow that makes his nobody ass a somebody. Yankee fans do not have a birthright to an enormous payroll. They think they do, but they don’t.
We may never get rid of Hal but at least we don’t have that Gettelman bum running the Giants anymore, Alan.
What about you, Random Man In His 70s Who Just Joined The Board Last Month? You wouldn’t happen to have any strong opinions about Dave Gettelman, would you? 😉
I know less than nothing about cap rules so, the Knicks could offer him a 4/72M contract with an opt out after 2 years. That would seem to cover all the bases for everyone, assuming I Hart wants to stay here. guaranteed money and the possibility of much more during his 27-28 year old season where he could really get paid….
I know less than nothing about cap rules so, the Knicks could offer him a 4/72M contract with an opt out after 2 years.
not allowed
I recall the Chris Dudley contract, as well, being one that really irked Stern. He did not like losing that challenge in court.
We could sign iHart to a one year deal with a wink if it really comes down to it. But most likely the 4 year/$72mm offer should be enough.
I’d be happy to pontificate on Gettleman, but then I’ll be accused of hijacking the thread @Giantbockers
Opt outs not allowed on 4 year contracts?
Options only allowed on final year of a contract.
The way to game it is offer a 1-and-1 player option and allow him to sign for big money after he opts out. The option is in case of injury he has another year of guaranteed salary. But for iHart, he may want the longer guaranteed money between his injury history and his relatively small career earnings.
“it’s always hard to say what the true rationale is for negotiated outcomes, since the underlying mechanism is often just “where the two sides managed to compromise””
What’s interesting about this particular deal is that ptmilo had identified iHart as a potential target and was hyped that we wrangled him.
I sort of understand the rule, and both the Knicks and iHart’s rationale on the deal. The Knicks did not view iHart as a long-term answer as a starter and had Mitch penciled in to that role. iHart was improving and didn’t want to hamper his ability to cash in on improvement. The league and the NBPA seems to have effectively met in the middle on this clause in a way that balances the competing interests: the team’s interest in locking in good players on a cut-rate deal without long-term risk and the player’s interest in having flexibility to move on if he vastly outplays the original deal. In a sense, the team is forced to ante up if they want to buy additional rights, and the player is forced to risk a third year at the current rate if he wants flexibility.
No way to game iHart…concluded yesterday that he’s as good as gone.
Saw another stat somewhere that he’s 3rd in the league in setting efficient screens and Knicks are the worst team in the league at passing to roller. Didn’t even know they keep such stats.
Kid’s been scoring efficiently too when JB hits him rolling or for his mini floater. After a bonifide playoff run, – he’s getting a lot more than $16m AAV.
edit: someone said yesterday that he’s not durable…plasyed 68 with Clips, all 82 for us last and finish this season with 76…How many centers in last three years were more durable than him?
“Opt outs not allowed on 4 year contracts?”
Not after 2 years as you suggested.
“After a bonifide playoff run, – he’s getting a lot more than $16m AAV.”
Folks keep saying this, but I don’t think it’s true. Teams seem reluctant to sign non-spacing C’s to $20+ AAV deals. iHart’s achilles is now a 2-year issue and might be viewed as a long-term risk on starter’s minutes.
I’d be unpleasantly surprised if he signs elsewhere for more than the max we can offer him.
I- Hart to OKC is very possible, but they might address that issue in the draft
My name is Richard Nuttall and my wife is Debbie Nuttall, we are both 54 years old. WE ARE GLAD TO ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD THAT WE WON £61,708,321 EUROMILLIONS JACKPOT PRIZE with the number a lottery spell caster called Lord Bubuza gave us after casting his lottery spell. This man is a great seer and he is like a God on Earth that has turned our financial status around. He was recommended to us by a friend he helped and as a couple we decided to give him a try, we provided his requirement to cast the lottery spell and today we are £61M richer. I have made a vow to myself that I will keep testifying about him. Join us to appreciate this genius, Do you want to win like us ? Contact him via email: Lordbubuzamiraclework @ hotmail . com or WhatsApp: +1 505 569 0396 ….
I’m just gonna ignore the above wackadoodle post and point out that we are 13 1/2 point favorites tonight, which is a crazy line for a road game
Are the Raptors still missing all their good players?
Unfortunately I am not Richard Nuttall. But he does exist and did win £61million last month. Perhaps he is englishknick?
“edit: someone said yesterday that he’s not durable…plasyed 68 with Clips, all 82 for us last and finish this season with 76…How many centers in last three years were more durable than him?”
If I were counter-negotiating, I’d say that he had a sore achilles last year that resulted in months of lousy play, and he is on a significant minutes restriction this year to manage the same injury. But yes, he has been pretty durable on paper.
The Raptors’ first round pick is top 6 protected and they have a one game lead over Memphis for the 6th worst record in the league. They want to lose this game as much as we want to win.
Yeah, the Raptors are sitting IQ, RJ & Scottie. Jontay Porter is out too.
Lord Bubuza is a great name, though. When I come back from getting banned in 2026 that’s how you’ll know it’s me.
Did somebody actually name their kid Dick Nut? This seems more outlandish than the spell thing, but apparently that’s the true part.
To clarify, Hubert/Lord Bubuza: will you be getting banned in 2026, or returning in 2026 from getting banned at an earlier date?
Mitch is listed as questionable for tonight, maybe he gets a few minutes
Questionable!
Now that dude might be Neptune…seems more like him than PBL…
Alan, I had the same question about Hubert’s banning. It could be read either way, but I think that 2026 is when he’ll be resurfacing from some prior banning situation.
I was thinking that I’m two years away from getting banned. Might be giving myself too much credit.
Can I change my name to Lord BPL? It sounds more classy….
Is this standard practice after a 4+ month hiatus…list the return date as questionable? – it’s so annoying.
I assume it means we’re going to let him warm up and see how he feels and if he feels good we’re going to play him.
If I were OKC, I’d be wary of offering $25mil AAV to iHart only because of the Achilles. He’s been durable…on a minutes restriction. 35/40 minutes a game, not so much. With luck that limits any other team from doing a 3/$75 mil or something like that.
He really is in an ideal situation, sharing time with Mitch. If he could hit consistently from 15′ out, he’d be the ideal for us. But even as is he’s pretty great.
Pretty certain it is up to cgreene to convince the elder Mrs H to persuade her son to forsake potentially more money for the MSG bright lights and a healthy achilles. It’s the least any committed Knick fan would do.
And if he signs elsewhere I will be first in line to call for cgreene to go the way of the Bob Neptunes and be banned.
I think we should be able to resign Ihart. I doubt anyone offers more than $16 mil and even if someone does I think as long as it’s close he would come back because he seemingly likes it here and is very close to Mitch. I feel it would take a Godfather type offer to get him to leave as long as we don’t dick him around or try to lowball him.
As for Rokas, I think he is totally worth bringing over. He won the rising star award a couple years ago, is a good shooter, and plays a major role on one of the best non-NBA teams in the world, and is still only 23. He is like a bonus 1st, would probably be picked top 20 if he was in the draft, and would mean we could ostensibly bring him and two 1st round picks in to start rebuilding our bench. Young players often look worse in Europe, especially on top teams, because role is so often dictated by seniority and they are not given a lot of freedom to flourish. I think he will actually look better in the NBA.
We need to start bringing in young cost-controlled talent so we can stop paying market rate for bench players and stop being forced to play below replacement-level players when we have injuries.
a beautiful day
Good thing I don’t bet, as I’d have put good money on OG and Julius coming back first and second…
I’d certainly rather have Rokas on the end of the bench than Charlie Brown
Thank you, Lord Bubuza! Now please heal OG’s elbow.
holy cow, lord bubuza has quite the search results situation going on…
just pay a bit to google/bing/whatever search site to get yourself promoted to the top of the page – and let the scam begin and the money flow on in…
was watching this youtuber whom goes after scammers (there’s like a whole vid niche of tubers doing that) break down how the cost to promote your site (two to six thousand a month maybe) can bring back more than 10 times that amount in revenue stream…
of course if folks do in fact have a soul – god themself would most likely piss on it once you die…
edit: is there anyone here who doubted for a single moment that i would get fixated on this lord bubuza shit…
I just want to know what Debbie Nuttall’s role is in all of this
Rokas gives us a shot at a PG who might be capable and should come cheap. He’s also 6’4″, so he might be able to play next to Deuce on the 2nd unit.
Like the next comet strike, Hubert’s banning is past due.
That said, I’m currently in negotiations to buy a spell from the Nuttalls, so when I win the lottery, you will all become paid commenters, even Lord E.
TRAP GAME ALERT!
Nah, we can’t lose this one, can we? The Raps legit have 2 NBA players.
The latest KFS podcast with Fred Katz and Macri made me somewhat hopeful about Randle. Katz seems to imply that they are focused on strengthening his shoulder to avoid re-injury, which explains the lengthy recovery. Randle himself has been pushing to play.
Is any of those players named Sumner? 😀
Between Mitch returning and the Nuttall family winning the Euromillions Jackpot Prize, it’s a great day!
It’s appalling that Hal won’t suck up just one truly balls-to-the-walls season while we have Soto, and saying so isn’t expressing “entitlement” to a sky-high payoll. It’s exactly what Alan said–an eminently reasonable expectation that the Yankees invest revenue into payroll at a rate that at least matches the MLB average, as we are the ones generating said revenue.
I remain cautiously optimistic that we’ll be able to keep iHart. If the money is close, I (perhaps naively) think he’ll pick us over someone offering a hair more. He seems happy here and it’s a good location for his wife’s career. It’s also hard for me to see OKC and their penny pinching ownership investing heavily at Chet’s long-term position, even if iHart would be a great backup.
But who knows? It only takes one.
Yankees just picked up a desperately needed solid utility infielder in Berti. I assume they’ll go balls to the walls to keep Soto this winter but yeah still a but frustrating the way they handled this offseason after the great start adding Soto.
Wow. Shots fired by Bernie! I’ll offer her free printing for life!
@statsmuse
That is a truly amazing stat, marechal!!! Thanks for sharing it.
Hope you’re right…but any team that invests $25m aav is going to do everything they can to accomodate him. When all interests are alligned, happiness ensues. I don’t think it’s a secreat that Thibs handcuffed him to play the Mitch cardio role. He would blossom offensively with a Hali type pass first PG.
With respect to his wife, what career exactly? – Shes a hot aspiring model/instagram influencer that doesn’t make any serious money.
I really hope he stays because the kid has been our 3rd best player this season but my realism tells me no way. TBD, I guess.
If a team invests $25M AAV, yeah, we’re almost definitely cooked. I don’t see that happening though.
I know we all love I-Hart, but I sometimes think we (me included) are quick to forget how amazing a run Mitch had prior to his injury, both on offensive rebounding and on defense.
I have no idea what iHart fetches, a lot depends on his playoff performance.
If Thibs used him like this for his entire contract, then I think he’d be gone. On the other hand, Cs get paid less than they contribute to winning and most, if not all, the teams with cap space this offseason have good Cs.
here is an interesting data point…
https://twitter.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1772705805864784030/photo/1
Definitely a cool data point, but please delete it before Presti sees.
I-Hart has the more diverse skillset on offense. He has that little floater, can pass, and hit FTs. Mitch is so bad from the FT line, it could become a problem in the playoffs.
I think people were hoping I-Hart could give us most of what Mitch offers defensively and on the boards and the added spacing and playmaking would make him the better fit. That’s sort of what has happened. I-Hart has been even better defensively and on the boards than we hoped. So now people are looking at Mitch as the backup even though he was an impact player as a starter on some nights when heathy.
There’s another way to view this data point.
Sam Presti is a modern GM, not a guy looking to swindle a dumb owner out of money for his agency. It’s nice that iHart hustles his way through screens in the regular season and gets some filler garbage buckets around the rim, but when he played a real team with a real coach in the playoffs he scored 13 points in 6 games on 3.5% USG, and that’s simply factorial.
“Sam Presti is a modern GM, not a guy looking to swindle a dumb owner out of money for his agency. It’s nice that iHart hustles his way through screens in the regular season and gets some filler garbage buckets around the rim, but when he played a real team with a real coach in the playoffs he scored 13 points in 6 games on 3.5% USG, and that’s simply factorial.”
I agree that Presti is not going to make a move just because he can, but beyond that, the rest of your reasoning is absurdly dismissive of Hartenstein’s play this year, not to mention that he is playing in a different role with different players. If anything, a guy like Presti would never make this shallow of a judgment. And on the outside chance that he did, it would be to his detriment.
I’m joking zman, I understand you can’t make much out of a tiny playoff sample
zman you ate the hater cosplaying toy dred left out for swift with his medicine in it
In his last season with the Clippers, Hartenstein posted a 4.5 BPM in 1200 minutes. This year he has posted a 3.1 BPM in 1600 minutes. That’s 2 out of 3 years of play as a significantly above average C. And he’s just entering his prime.
He’s definitely worth $15-20M AAV on a long-term deal in the coming cap environment. I don’t think Presti would overpay him at $25M, especially with Chet in the fold, but if he could get him for a market-rate deal, my guess is he’d be more than happy to do so.
The Raptors are starting a kid named Javon Freeman-Liberty who I don’t think I’ve ever heard of
“zman you ate the hater cosplaying toy dred left out for swift with his medicine in it”
Guilty as charged, sorry if I’m a bit slow on the uptake, my back is in a bad way. I think the concern that someone might make iHart an offer he can’t refuse is legit, and a guy like Presti is probably lurking, rightfully so.
We’ll have to see how OKC does in the playoffs, Presti had more than enough assets to add a good center to his roster last offseason and this year and didn’t.
We are programmed to think of 6th men in the Dennis Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Lou Williams archetype. But man am I excited about the prospect of Mitchell Robinson coming off the bench to wreck second units for 15-20 mins a game.
The Detroit boys should put up a bunch of Kobe assists
I would love for the C rotation to be basically IHart and Mitch taking turns for 6 minutes and basically playing high energy defense for 48 minutes.
I think you have to hit the rim for it to be a Kobe assist
Our offense will be a perfectly looped gif of Bojan bricking a corner 3, Mitch grabbing a rebound and kicking it out to Bojan bricking a corner 3…
Hey BernieErnie – I’m hoping the idea I might be Richard Nuttal was random and not because you saw some reflection of my posting style in his?!
Anyway no – still here, still me, still don’t have $61m… just not posting very often these days.
EB, just get up by a few points in the 4th, put in Mitch and Bojan and do that till the game clock expires. Championship.
My name is Richard Nuttall, my wife Debbie Nuttall and I are both 54 years old. WE ARE GLAD TO ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD THAT WE WON £61,708,321 EUROMILLIONS JACKPOT PRIZE, with the number a lottery spell caster called Lord Bubuza gave us after casting his lottery spell. This man is a great seer and he is like a God on Earth that has turned our financial status for the better. He was recommended to us by a friend in my office who he helped win the lottery, and as a couple, we discussed and decided to give his spell a try. We provided his requirement to cast the lottery spell and we are £61M richer today. We have made a vow to ourselves that we will keep testifying about him. We were skeptical at first, but no protection is risky, so we tried it and we are financially stable now. Join us to appreciate this genius. Do you want to win like us? Contact him via email: Lordbubuzamiraclework @ hotmail . com or WhatsApp: +1 505 569 0396 ..