Knicks Morning News (2024.03.20)

Begley with a very notable injury update on OG and Julius:

https://www.sny.tv/articles/latest-knicks-og-anunoby-julius-randle-injuries-update

As always, I suggest you click the link to support good coverage of your team, but here are the most important passages:

The approach to Anunoby’s current ailment will be a conservative one, per people briefed on the matter. The team will not rush Anunoby back, but it’s worth noting that the irritation in his elbow has shown improvement since Monday, people briefed on the matter said on Tuesday.

and

As of the Kings game, Randle still hadn’t been cleared to take full contact. It’s unclear if he’s been cleared for contact in the ensuing days.

Randle has been able to do everything else on the court as he tries to play through a shoulder dislocation.

Three people I spoke to who are familiar with the situation expressed confidence that Randle would ultimately return to the court. He has been sidelined since late January with a shoulder ailment.

Maybe even worse than having to hope for a Heat win over the Cavs tonight is having to hope for a Celtics win over the Bucks. Just as the Heat are far enough down that they are not really a threat to us, the Celtics are too far ahead of us to worry about, but could help us by pushing the Bucks down in the standings towards us.

Go, Heat and Celtics! Yuck, yuck, a thousand times yuck. That’s the way I’m going, though. YMMV.

Also on the injury front: https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1770370197423034720

Windhorst says, “Mitchell Robinson should be back before the end of the month”

Thanks Alan. Sounds like positive news re: OG and neutral news re: Julius.

Doogie, I’m with you re: rooting for Cavs and Bucks losses despite the opponents. And not that I ever root for opposing players to get injured but it would be nice if there was some regression to the mean on the Celtics’ part.

It’s pretty amazing that we are still talking about a top-3 seed in light of the injury bug we’ve sustained this year.

I wonder if they are trying to minimize the chance of Julius reinjuring his shoulder by having him come back late in the regular season and play fewer games.

Mitch potentially being back in the next 10 days is really exciting. Maybe the goal for him, and hopefully OG, could be the OKC game on March 31st, which is when the schedule gets harder (OKC, @Heat, Kings). It would be amazing to get everyone back by the Bucks game on April 7th so they get 5 games together before the playoffs.

I can’t believe there are only 14 games left.

My guess on Julius is that the medical team has very specific benchmarks for shoulder strength that Julius has to meet and he is not quite meeting them. It might be a PT-type test of smaller muscles involving low amounts of weight, or a range of motion thing.

Great article focusing on Deuce.

From Steph:

“We kept Jalen [Brunson] pretty quiet to start but [Isaiah] Hartenstein got three floaters or finishes in the paint and they were kind of spacing us out,” Curry told reporters when asked to break down the 18-4 Knicks start. “They played a starting lineup that gave Hartenstein the ability to roll. He and Brunson played pick and roll then when McBride was hitting shots, they had every option open and they were making them. We never got stops that led to the transition.”

Also this:

McBride revealed he watched a lot of film of Curry to prepare for the toughest defensive assignment of his young career.

“Just understanding the routes he takes. Obviously, he doesn’t stop moving. He’s the greatest shooter in the history. So, just trying to do my best and continuously fight through screens, be physical and do whatever I can to disrupt him.”

The first quote kind of reinforces how much iHart’s floater game and passing can make a difference. It seems like if/when Mitch comes back, there is a perfect scenario to keep iHart in the starting lineup while playing him like 26 minutes and playing Mitch like 22, although you can even mix in some precious to spell both.

Mitch coming back has the added benefit of allowing iHart to play less and heal. Resting OG until the last second is not ideal but his 1st game with us and his 1st game returning shows he needs zero reps to have an impact. Randle seems to be the opposite, so the sooner the better if indeed he does return but at least he is on a regimen that aims for his return. Overall, heartening.

Will be interesting when Mitch comes back who losses out in the bench rotation. I mean it’s gotta be one of Bojan or Burks, right?

Precious is not an offensive threat but plays good defense and can get rebounds, put back buckets, etc. McBride has shown he belongs. Burks has been garbage but does provide some PG play and seems to maybe slowly washing off the Detroit stink. Bojan has had one good game with us but has been an absolute mess otherwise but is the better shooter?

I would guess Thibs will stick with a 4 man bench of McBride, Burks, Precious and Mitch. You have 2 shooters/scorers with McBride and Burks, Burks can handle the ball some and is not quite the sieve defensively that Bojan is. That unit can probably hold down a lead in the playoffs for ten minutes with either Brunson, DDV or OG out there with them.

The first quote kind of reinforces how much iHart’s floater game and passing can make a difference. It seems like if/when Mitch comes back, there is a perfect scenario to keep iHart in the starting lineup while playing him like 26 minutes and playing Mitch like 22, although you can even mix in some precious to spell both.

The drop off in the non-I-Hart minutes has been pretty astonishing. It was a net 45 point swing in the GSW game (I-Hart was a +26, his back-ups were a -19 combined). It will be so nice not to have such a steep drop off in the second unit.

If everyone is healthy, they could run a pretty nice defensive bench unit with Deuce/Hart/Bojan/Mitch. Maybe keep OG there and you get Deuce/OG/Hart/Bojan/Mitch, which will make it very hard for other teams to score, while still having 3 real 3pt threats on the floor (assuming Bojan gets back from his funk).

Because of I-Hart’s minutes limitation, they’ll still play Mitch with the starting unit quite a bit (think the last 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters). They will need to keep the shooting around him, so I wonder if they bring Bojan in a bit earlier and rest OG so he can play with the backups? Something like JB/DDV/Bojan/Randle/Mitch for about 4 minutes? Or maybe the starting lineup is so good that they just keep it together and play an entire bench unit with Deuce/Burks/Hart/Bojan/Mitch.

So many options!

walker, I think a lot depends on what kind of minutes Julius can play.

Bojan has been a dud so far, but until we have a full roster, it is hard to pass final judgment on him. Right now he’s way off on the one thing we have taken for granted, his 3pt shooting. If he continues to brick open 3’s in crunch time, he probably will be benched when everyone is back. But if Mitch is out there as a ORebounder, lob target and rim protector/PnR detonator, Thibs just might give him, Burks, Deuce and Precious/JHart some time to gel.

Burks will likely continue to eat minutes to give Brunson a breather. But having him out there without Bojan is putting a lot of pressure on him to score.

I think Precious gets dungeon’ed first, followed by whichever Detroit guy is playing worse whenever Mitch (and hopefully Julius) comes back. Precious has been such a pleasant surprise for us, and there may be some matchups where he’s really valuable. But he gets ignored on offense, and on defense he’ll have games like the GSW one where a nobody like Trayce Jackson Davis keeps exploiting him. He basically goes back to being the “in case of emergency, break glass” big man, while Sims becomes the guy who only ever plays in extreme blowouts.

I dunno, Alan. Considering that OG, Mitch, iHart, and Randle are all coming back from injury, there might be a period of experimentation with Precious seeing minutes as Randle’s backup for 10-15 mpg. But sure, he could go with a combo of Bojan, JHart and OG to fill that role.

In any case, it would be a good problem to have!

Speaking of Precious, I wonder if there is anything left to unlock in his offensive game. His shot doesn’t look broken and he can handle it a little bit. Unlike on Toronto, he doesn’t have a slew of long, lanky wings in front of him. If he could just make his 3pt shot a big more of a weapon he could be a pretty valuable low-cost backup when we are flirting with the second apron.

Precious is young and it is not uncommon for players, especially bigs, to develop a bit of a 3 point shot later in their careers.

I know that folks would like to avoid a second-round matchup with the Celts, but I wouldn’t be thrilled about a first-round 3-6 matchup with the Heat either. So that is one reason to root for the Cavs tonight I guess…

Stuff like that makes me pretty neutral on how we wind up in the standings. I don’t think there is a particularly easy first round matchup except maybe for the inexperienced Magic…unless Hali turned into a pumpkin. Obviously if we lose to anyone in the first round, we weren’t ready for prime time anyway, but that would be worse for me than losing to the Celts in round 2.

Haralabob with a pretty spicy take on the current stat of sports gambling.

I don’t get it either and it’s not just the annoying ads.

https://x.com/haralabob/status/1770223259797360899?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw

If Mitch can give us even 15 minutes of Mitchness, that’d be huge. Basically all of the non-iHart minutes are a cobbled together slog right now. Precious has done yeoman’s work and I think we can still incorporate him depending on matchups, but realistically he’s too small to be a reliable backup center and Sims is a nice guy who can jump high but mostly sucks at NBA basketball.

Right now Aflac Bruts is the most obvious dungeon candidate, followed by Precious. Bogey isn’t doing himself any favors but I don’t think it would be smart to cut bait on a guy with his resume this quickly.

Brunson/DDV/OG/Randle/iHart starting with Deuce/Hart/Bogey/Mitch getting the rotation bench minutes seems like the optimal plan at full health as of now. I still think there’s a clear need for a player like the version of Burls that doesn’t suck, but it’s getting late early for that.

Here’s a question. Let’s say Randle can’t make it back or is so hobbled he can’t really give us much? Or he gets hurt again in like game 1 of the first round.

Assuming healthy Mitch and OG, what is your starting 5?

Do you go Brunson, DDV, OG, Hart, iHart or do you go Brunson, McBride, DDV, OG and iHart?

I never expected Kendrick Perkins to be the mainstream basketball media’s number 1 Knicks fan

Assuming healthy Mitch and OG, what is your starting 5?

My incredibly unpopular answer is just replacing Randle with Bogey. OG and iHart can more than cover for his defensive deficiencies and he’s a good enough scorer to fully mitigate the loss of Randle if he gets his shit together. Deuce, Hart, and Precious all give you the option of giving him a short leash if it’s just not happening.

Speaking of Precious, I wonder if there is anything left to unlock in his offensive game. His shot doesn’t look broken and he can handle it a little bit. Unlike on Toronto, he doesn’t have a slew of long, lanky wings in front of him. If he could just make his 3pt shot a big more of a weapon he could be a pretty valuable low-cost backup when we are flirting with the second apron….

…Precious is young and it is not uncommon for players, especially bigs, to develop a bit of a 3 point shot later in their careers.

wouldn’t bet on it. 110 players in history have played at least 3000 minutes in the first four years of their career while shooting under 63% from the line and under 32% from 3. not one of them (unless you count dna) went on to become a decent three-point shooter. Precious is also 29% on 143 career mid-range attempts.

my free ass-on-the-couch dissection says that he has too much shot-to-shot variance in his internal fluidity to be a great exception to the rule candidate. would much rather see decently reliability fluidity and a shitty release if i was gonna bet on a trevor ariza trajectory. especially distrust a guy who misses such a large proportion of his shots so badly.

i think precious has played better than expected for us but is still a really dangerous option, to the point where i’d almost prefer if we didn’t have it. i see his offensive flexibility largely as a chance for defenses to happily offer us an attractive nuisance and i’ve watched enough of his career ups and downs as a defender to not wholly trust his generally solid play on that end in his early thibs’ tenure. thibs looked like he wanted to fedex him to dungeontown in the dubs game. i would much rather have a length mismatch against most size-heavy opponents like allen-mobley or carter-banchero than to match up size with a C plus Precious. but he’s played better than i’d imagined he would since the trade.

Re: OG injury and free agency conflict. Team success vs. personal bag risk.

OG has proven his worth to Leon and other GMs around the league. If he sits tight he likely maximizes his bag. Coming back and playing with pain has effected his shooting a ton and if he gets injured again and needs another surgery, he’s likely to get significantly less.

Think he’s going into year 8.

a) How much is his max contract from Leon vs. other GMs.
b) How much is fair compesation vs. overpay?

“wouldn’t bet on it. 110 players in history have played at least 3000 minutes in the first four years of their career while shooting under 63% from the line and under 32% from 3. not one of them (unless you count dna) went on to become a decent three-point shooter. Precious is also 29% on 143 career mid-range attempts.”

Who the heck is “dna”? Sincerely asking.

Haralabob with a pretty spicy take on the current stat of sports gambling.

Best part:

Do you know how hard it was to be a gambler back then problem or otherwise?

How much work you had to do to find a bookie, place a bet , make sure you got paid. It wasn’t advertised it was murky and disguised.

If you recall a couple years back I had made a large bet on the Phoenix Suns at some long odds.

By the time they were in the conference finals I felt legitimately afraid of winning. I once joked that it would be cheaper to rub me out than pay me, and I wasn’t really joking.

Had I won, I probably would have been compelled to make a lot of losing bets. In the end I made a big hedge against it by betting on Giannis to win the MVP. While that was smart gambling, it was also life insurance.

I was never a big gambler, though. I knew a guy who knew a guy. But the guy he knew was definitely Paulie Walnuts.

At the end of the day I’m pretty happy I can use these sites instead, but I place maybe 3-4 bets a year. The usefulness is deeply outweighed by the proliferation of gambling.

Among all the discussions of possible rotations for the playoffs (when we have no idea who will be available and for how many minutes), someone mentioned trading for KAT.

Kat and D Mitchell are fine very expensive players and likely would be workable. However, If Leon is looking to make a large offer, would prefer someone like Jalen Johnson of Atlanta who is a good young player, but not yet great, who is on the rise. The price would be heavy, but they aren’t getting KAT or Mitchell out of the EJ Korvette’s discount rack.

My incredibly unpopular answer is just replacing Randle with Bogey.

I hope it’s not too unpopular bc I think it’s the obvious answer.

I’d be ok with Hart if we were playing Cleveland or Orlando. Against Miami or Boston, I’d definitely want the shooter in there.

Who the heck is “dna”? Sincerely asking.

https://x.com/doctornba/status/561676604943118336?s=46

I’d be ok with Hart if we were playing Cleveland or Orlando. Against Miami or Boston, not so much.

So you think Bogey chasing around Pablo Banchero or Franz Wagner for extended minutes is going to work out well? Am I misunderstanding something? I don’t get the Bogey nut hugging.

Against Miami or Boston, I’d definitely want the shooter in there.

So you like the match-up of Bogey vs Tatum or Jaylen Brown?

I never expected Kendrick Perkins to be the mainstream basketball media’s number 1 Knicks fan

I imagine our love of the big man resonates with him.

So you think Bogey chasing around Pablo Banchero or Franz Wagner for extended minutes is going to work out well? Am I misunderstanding something?

Actually you’re misreading something. Probably bc you are too eager to argue.

Don’t look now, but not being able to fit in the 20 ppg/60% TS guy so much so that you fall back on the bricklaying 6-4 guy (HB) as your crutch is pretty much the textbook definition of “lowering the team’s ceiling.”

So you like the match-up of Bogey vs Tatum or Jaylen Brown?

So you like Josh Hart going 5 for 18?

Don’t look now, but not being able to fit in the 20 ppg/60% TS guy so much so that you fall back on the bricklaying 6-4 guy (HB) as your crutch is pretty much the textbook definition of “lowering the team’s ceiling.”

Oops! I did look now, and saw that the 20/60%TS ppg guy has been more like 11 ppg/52% TS in his Knicks tenure, which now spans 15 games.

Meanwhile, the bricklaying guy has put up TS 1% lower, but with elite rebounding, defense, and passing. Mr. 20ppg/60% TS happens to be atrocious in all of those areas.

Do those count towards the team’s ceiling at all, or is basketball now just a shooting contest where a team of 5 Steve Novaks would go 82-0?

My incredibly unpopular answer is just replacing Randle with Bogey.

I think this works offensively (assuming Thibs can tell Bojan to shoot well again), but I am afraid they would be killed with rebounds. OG is not great at rebounding, and the less said about Bojan the better. Replacing Randle/Hart in the lineup for them would lose the Knicks several possessions a game.

Oops! I did look now, and saw that the 20/60%TS ppg guy has been more like 11 ppg/52% TS in his Knicks tenure, which now spans 15 games.

Because the coach hasn’t been able to successfully fit him in. QED.

And the answer to the question/utterance I know is coming: Yes, it’s the coach’s responsibility to get the most out of his entire roster.

This is fundamental man-management stuff, in sports and otherwise; there’s no need to relitigate. If I have a solid lawyer under me and I cobble together a shitty atmosphere or frosty relationship such that said lawyer doesn’t respond very well and he/she underperforms potential, that’s on me.

Because the coach hasn’t been able to successfully fit him in. QED.

So the secret of Bojan’s relative success in Detroit must have been NBA coaching master Monty Williams, who has led them to *checks notes* their worst winning% and net rating in franchise history. Got it.

So the secret of Bojan’s success in Detroit must have been NBA coaching master Monty Williams, who has led them to *checks notes* their worst winning% and net rating in franchise history. Got it.

Thibs has done a shitty job incorporating the player’s skills into the team. Best to just accept it, because it’s obviously true.

Meanwhile, the rest of us who aren’t in the tank are left to hope that Thibs won’t HB us out of yet another winnable playoff series this spring. The danger signs are a-formin’.

Thibs has done a shitty job incorporating the player’s skills into the team. Best to just accept it, because it’s obviously true.

lmao “Obviously true.” Fine lawyering with that blithe, completely unsupported conclusory declaration!

Evidence in favor: Nothing but E’s farts in the wind.

Evidence against: We have the 7th best net rating despite carrying one of the worst starting wings in the league for a decent portion of the year (RJ, not your favorite HB hobbyhorse) and missing literally out entire starting front line for another big chunk. In our small sample at near full health, we have dominated all comers.

You might consider that maximizing the team’s overall fortunes is not necessarily consistent with maximizing the statistical output of every individual player at all times. Whole more than sum of parts and all that.

Best to just accept it, because it’s obviously true.

See E. that one sentence encapsulates why every one on this board can’t stand you and wishes you would just disappear

Bojan hasn’t been shooting open 3s that well as a Knick, but we’re talking like 30 shots.

Bojan has made 26 3s as a Knick. If he shot them at his career % he would have made 30 3s as a Knicks. We don’t have to get into a big argument about 4 shots.

So you like Josh Hart going 5 for 18?

I do when he adds 11 assists and 11 boards and a triple double and plays all 48 minutes and is +7, and his 2 primary covers (Kumminga and Wiggins) shoot 9-22 and are a combined -21, yep….

Actually you’re misreading something. Probably bc you are too eager to argue.

Note my second comment, actually I was stunned anyone would advocate for playing Bogey against any matchup whether it Boston, Miami, Cleveland or Orlando. Everyone on this board likes to discuss/argue, don’t try to appear you are on some higher celestial plain.

Just explain where Bogey is a good match up vs those teams. It doesn’t make any sense to me. I get the notion of spacing (and I assume over the next 15 games his shooting will normalize) but he surrenders soooooo much on the defensive side of the ball he is virtually unplayable vs a good team, especially where every single possession is important. .

He was a starter and played starters’ minutes for the third rated net team in the association two years ago.

He was a Tier 4 player in the Athletic ratings six months ago.

His last nine games before he came here were very good.

That beats a few biased eye tests, sorry.

Thibs has managed the asset poorly.

Bogey has missed a pretty decent number of wide open looks. I’m not sure how you blame that on Tom Thibodeau but I guess it’s possible to cram that narrative into everything the way a red pill eater blames every world event on “the conspiracy.”

If Bogey can’t even hit the rim on wide open looks because he’s afraid Tom Thibodeau might be mean to him, that seems like more of an issue with Bogey’s professionalism and dare I say moxie than it does with anything Tom Thibodeau is doing, but hey, what do I know. I’m gonna go outside and huff some chemtrails right now.

Maybe it’s just good old fashioned variance and Bogey is having a poor stretch that will turn out to have been an arbitrary endpoint situation. As DRed has pointed out, four more 3-pointers made instead of missed and Bogey is right at his career norms.

He was a starter and played starters’ minutes for the third rated net team in the association two years ago.

Cool! Since you’re really big on the regular season being meaningless compared to small postseason samples, how’d that team do in the playoffs against a team with just over half their SRS?

He was a Tier 4 player in the Athletic ratings six months ago.

His last nine games before he came here were very good.

That beats a few biased eye tests, sorry.

TIL my citing actual stats from his 15 games here is merely a biased eye tests. On the other hand, E pronouncing an arbitrary prior sample of 9 games as good is the true authority.

Tell me E, since our regular season wins against teams trying to win are meaningless, how high would you rate the defensive intensity Bojan would have faced when playing for the worst team in the league? Do you think they really clamped down when up 20 by halftime or no?

Julius Randle is the next guest on Jalen and Josh’s podcast. Hopefully we get some better insights into his health on Thursday.

’m not sure how you blame that on Tom Thibodeau but I guess it’s possible to cram that narrative into everything the way a red pill eater blames every world event on “the conspiracy.”

Because middle management is typically responsible for the performance of line personnel under their supervision and management.

Particularly when there’s an immediate drop in performance corresponding directly with the line personnel becoming under the management of said middle manager.

There’s nothing remotely conspiratorial, or even controversial, about that.

“Thibs can’t fail, he can only be failed” should be a non-starter around here. There were times when it was. It certainly is with me.

I’m a Bogey booster, but would like to emphatically distance myself from the idea that his lackluster play as a Knick has anything to do with the coach.

Since he’s been here, he’s shooting 27% (10/37) on 3PA nba.com defines as “open.” That was 45% in Detroit.

If he does nothing other than match his Detroit rate on open threes, he’s averaging almost exactly 20 PTS/36, his TS% here is .582, and we’re talking about something else.

This may shock you, but it turns out E confidently issued a scathing critique of Tom Thibodeau without looking into the underlying issue whatsoever. I’ve truly seen it all!

Hart-Bojan-OG-DDV-JB might work against teams with someone to hide Bojan on, maybe some of the Miami lineups, Cleveland maybe. Truth is that unless Josh shoots better we don’t have any great answers for not having Randle unless we’re playing a team we can go small against

Because middle management is typically responsible for the performance of line personnel under their supervision and management.

Particularly when there’s an immediate drop in performance corresponding directly with the line personnel becoming under the management of said middle manager.

I found a rock the other day. I put it by my front door, and since then it has not rained.

The only conclusion is that this is a magic rain-preventing rock.

God, not this again.

I found a rock the other day. I put it by my front door, and since then it has not rained.

The only conclusion is that this is a magic rain-preventing rock.

I fell asleep last night. There was no snow on the ground.

I woke up the next morning. There was snow on the ground.

I didn’t see it snow last night, but I nonetheless concluded that it snowed last night.

God, not this again.

Best way to stop it is to stop relitigating obvious shit.

Or … wait for it … just let me post a couple opinions in a day without a bunch of shilling and “challenges.” How about that one?

Are the mercies around here really so tender that they turn to mush just because someone suggests the coach has done a poor job with a player?

Yes, it’s “obvious” that a player missing open shots is the coach’s fault, and not the player’s fault.

Thibs should be telling him “throw the ball into the basket” instead of “try to miss when you shoot.” Clearly.

Are the mercies around here really so tender that they turn to mush just because someone suggests the coach has done a poor job with a player?

No, people don’t like moronic arguments, and this is probably the dumbest fucking thing you have ever said on this site, bar none. Which is saying a lot.

I could give a shit about Tom Thibodeau, I’ll call out the dumb shit he does whenever he does it without any hesitation. I just don’t like idiotic bad faith arguments like the one you are making now.

There’s nothing bad faith about it. The player’s performance has declined precipitously under Thibs’s watch. Thibs is responsible.

Not only is it not bad faith, it’s blatantly obvious.

Yes, it’s “obvious” that a player missing open shots is the coach’s fault, and not the player’s fault.

Not “fault.” Responsibility.

The player’s performance dropped off a cliff the second he got here. That’s on the coach.

Stop whining and shilling.

Thibs is responsible the same way the magic rock outside my door has stopped the rain. The guy is missing wide open shots. Everybody can see how fucking dumb your argument is, so stop embarrassing yourself.

LEAVE TOM THIBODEAU ALONE!!!!

just let me post a couple opinions in a day

after about 2 years and hundreds of posts on your 1st opinion…eagerly waiting for the 2nd one.

anyhow, Mitch is back at practice

The troll is saying stupid and indefensible things.

Ignore the troll please.

It may feel good to point out the illogic of it all, but it’s useless and only acts as an enabler.

Let the troll say stupid things, and let us engage in other things.

Basketball Reference just updated their site. Coaches now have a Advanced SPM stat that factors a player’s Shooting efficacy with and without the coach.

I feel like Bogey will round into form, but I still like him better coming off the bench, where his defense will be less of an issue.

In many ways, he does a lot of the things Randle does on offense except he shoots threes better and does most everything else worse. As such, I like him as a facilitating PF with the 2nd unit who can stretch the floor. The turnovers are annoying, but at least he can somewhat credibly drive and kick or make the extra pass.

At his best, he’s actually a great fit in that role, especially with defenders like Deuce and Mitch on the 2nd unit..

@FredKatz
·
1m
Based on conversations at practice today, I’ll say there is a strong probability Mitchell Robinson comes off the bench once he returns.

Best way to stop it is to stop relitigating obvious shit.

Or … wait for it … just let me post a couple opinions in a day without a bunch of shilling and “challenges.” How about that one?

We’re not relitigating, we’re litigating. As much as you like to present your schtick as settled fact, it’s actually just a biased opinion like any other. If only you would just post a couple opinions instead of repeating the same shit forever and ever, you wouldn’t have even the former dogrufus calling you out as a troll.

Your simplistic and unfalsifiable opinions are not edicts immune to challenge, and you’ve no right to expect others to take them at face value. I have actually agreed with you on many matters of substance, it’s just that even when you’re not wrong, you’re just so bloody annoying that you end up being the most effective advocate that Tom Thibodeau could ever ask for.

Sure sounds like Mitch could be back any game now.

Your simplistic and unfalsifiable opinions are not edicts immune to challenge, and you’ve no right to expect others to take them at face value.

If they’re so stupid and trollish, just let them roll by without response then. That’s what I do with stupid and trollish things I’m exposed to.

There has been tons of criticism of Thibs from the very same people who do not buy that he is causing Bogey to miss open threes.

I think Thibs is not sufficiently sensitive to the rest/load management needs of the modern NBA player, and is slow to make low-risk in-game/series adjustments. I also don’t think he’s making Bogey miss open threes.

See?

Assuming there are no setbacks at practice I’d imagine it’ll be 2-3 more games at most. Sticking him back in against Jokic would be tough, then there’s a short rollover for the Nets (probably no practice).. . so maybe the Pistons or Raptors game?

we all use different voices to reach out and connect…words are mostly immaterial…

motives, goals give a much better picture towards purpose…

i started using the site because i was going crazy at work…shoot, a good bit of my day was spent checking in here on the site just to escape for a moment…

i didn’t come here looking for a challenge, to test myself against other posters…for me – life itself is challenging enough…and, conflict is costly…

the headshrinker in me thinks – we are simply not challenging enough for E, so he provokes harder…repeatedly…

i’m not sure how someone can fill their cup in this manner…it seems to be incredibly distracting to others…i can only imagine how many people were anticipating your first post today…

the fact that you’ve been able to captivate the attention of so many is interesting to me…

if you feel like engaging, let’s cut to the chase – what is it you are looking for E?

my overall sense is that you have life on lock down, you have your shit together, most likely – so, what would challenge you E?

i’ll just say brother – i don’t think we are it…

it’s funny, i often think too myself – man, some of these folks here sound as though they are working way too damn hard…dj phan used to give me that feeling all the time…sounded like he was on the go a lot, with folks calling him 24/7 with problems to fix…

hmmmm, maybe you’re not working hard enough E…shirker 😛

that one sentence encapsulates why every one on this board can’t stand you and wishes you would just disappear

Such a childish, & petulant statement. Not to mention one that is objectively untrue.

If you don’t like the guy, don’t read the guy. But please for the love of god stop trying to run every person who isn’t part of your beehive off the site.

hmmmm, maybe you’re not working hard enough E…shirker 😛

That’s a big part of it lol.

As a first order statement, just looking to write and read some stuff about the Knicks and the NBA with some people engaged in doing the same.

I lurked here for quite awhile before I actually started posting (probably sometime in Covid times). The site I lurked on is philosophically quite different than it is today. The “old” site whining about someone being critical of Knick coaches and management is a laughable proposition.

The house historians can help us out with explanations of how this came to pass, if they’re so inclined. Part of it has to be that the Knicks are now a way better basketball team.

Hart-Bojan-OG-DDV-JB might work against teams with someone to hide Bojan on, maybe some of the Miami lineups, Cleveland maybe. Truth is that unless Josh shoots better we don’t have any great answers for not having Randle unless we’re playing a team we can go small against

Oddly enough I think Porzingis qualifies as someone we can hide Bojan on. It could also be a mismatch on the other side, as well.

Obviously Mitch comes off of the bench when he returns. Even if the plan is for him to start long term, in the short term, you 100% bring him back on the bench. There’s no other realistic option, honestly.

With that being said, ZOMG, MITCH IS ALMOST BACK!!!

The troll is saying stupid and indefensible things.

“It’s just hard when you go the whole quarter without touching the ball, the whole second quarter without touching the ball, and then you get one shot and you got to make it: So it’s tough going out there and just standing in the corner the whole game. Then you got to make the shot when you shoot the ball one or two times per game. It is what it is.”

^ An actual player whose shooting dropped precipitously in Thibs’ offense said this.

There have been three players this season whose shooting has dropped precipitously in Thibs’ offense, all under the same exact circumstances. One of those players expressed precisely how and why the coach made his job harder to do.

I’m not sure if I agree with E here, but his argument is at least defensible.

Hubert, generally agree with your defence of E being allowed to opine, but not your knock on d-mars post. It was a response to an E post which was childish and petulant as well as patently untrue. E’s posts have long ceased offering insight, just argument.

I don’t agree with E’s shtick at all but if we do get past the first round which I believe we will, the Boston series will be real interesting from thibs perspective.

I brought this up yesterday but does Randle make more sense of the bench in that series? Ideally he would start and he could physically dominate whoever is guarding him on their team but he’s just so volatile…. Ideally we would put him on Jrue but that would leave ddv guarding brown and since the all star break brown has been punishing teams by taking the lesser defender to the paint and scoring.

The whole series will come down to Hart hitting open threes, which I don’t know he will. I know Hubert and Noble want Bojan but he will get lit up by the Celtics… We need to use him when the Celtics go the bench and we have to win those minutes.

If Hart isn’t hitting will thibs roll the dice with McBride? Our chance might be with Brunson, DDV, Deuce, OG and I-Hart. Force brown into thinking he can take deuce every possession, get them out of their normal rhythm. Celtics aren’t a dominant rebounding team so it wouldn’t hurt us as much on that end. Deuce will fire if open from three and he doesn’t need a ton of space, I love Hart but teams are going to give him the Tony Allen treatment in the playoffs.

Like I said I don’t agree with E’s shtick but thibs has options. Don’t go down playing hart 40 mins a night If it’s not working.

just let me post a couple opinions in a day

You mean the same couple of opinions EVERY DAY, multiple times a day (like sometimes dozens of times in one thread).

Yeah, we’re sick of it. We get it. You don’t like Thibs.

Bojan is a real liability on defense regardless of who you surround him with. He can’t keep up with motion, he can’t help and recover, and he can’t stay in front of someone 1-on-1. He’s the most exploitable matchup I’ve seen on a basketball court.

Pairing Precious & Hart on the 2nd unit is a terrible idea. If the offense was terrible when they paired with Brunson, then the proper descriptor of how bad they’d be with Deuce instead has yet to be conceived.

If Burks could play like he did in Detroit, I’d actually advocate for him to get the backup minutes. He gives you shooting and isn’t the inept defender Bojan is.

For my money, Thibs runs 8 men with Hart, Deuce, & Mitch coming off the bench.

Well said, airkent. I’ll just add that while Thibs will have options, there won’t be an abundance of good ones. It’s pick your poison vs the Celtics.

One of the reasons I prefer Bojan is it allows Hart to do his thing against their second unit, where I think it would be much more effective.

If Bojan has to cover Brown, that’s not good. But Brown isn’t exactly their best initiator, so sending the ball his way more may not be the worst thing.

But at the end of the day I just want space for Brunson. He’ll have to average 35ppg for us to have a chance vs Boston, and Hart’s still too easy to double off of.

You’re right about Hart shooting. If he can just pull the trigger and not get the yips, it’s a no brainer.

“It’s just hard when you go the whole quarter without touching the ball, the whole second quarter without touching the ball, and then you get one shot and you got to make it: So it’s tough going out there and just standing in the corner the whole game. Then you got to make the shot when you shoot the ball one or two times per game. It is what it is.”

Bojan and Burks are shooting as often as they did on the Pistons, (Burks unfortunately is shooting even more frequently). They have significantly higher usage as Knicks than Grimes did. They are not not getting shot attempts, and neither one of them is just standing in the corner. To whatever extent Grimes was right about himself those arguments don’t apply to the other two.

“It’s just hard when you go the whole quarter without touching the ball, the whole second quarter without touching the ball, and then you get one shot and you got to make it: So it’s tough going out there and just standing in the corner the whole game. Then you got to make the shot when you shoot the ball one or two times per game. It is what it is.”

Except this is not at all how Bogdanovic is being used. He is getting plenty of touches and plenty of shots, as evidenced by his 23.5 usage as a Knick. Bojan attempts 15.8 FG/36 so it’s not like he’s getting two looks per game then getting yanked.

He is getting open shots and missing them. Those are shots you’re supposed to make when you’re an NBA player and your only positive attribute is shooting.

What else exactly should Thibs be doing to make sure that Bogey doesn’t miss wide open assisted jumpers?

One could, in this position, say something along the lines of “when I saw that Bogey wasn’t shooting as well as he was with Detroit, I assumed it was coaching related. However upon seeing that the difference is almost entirely attributable to his success rate on open threes, I no longer think that.”

No one would think less of that person! On the contrary, it would demonstrate some welcome humility. I’d go as far as saying such a statement would bolster the speaker’s credibility moving forward, as it would be clear they are open to changing their mind on something in the face of strong evidence.

Alas.

If Bojan has to cover Brown, that’s not good. But Brown isn’t exactly their best initiator, so sending the ball his way more may not be the worst thing.

But at the end of the day I just want space for Brunson. He’ll have to average 35ppg for us to have a chance vs Boston, and Hart’s still too easy to double off of.

An understandable argument. There is a significant trade off for better spacing on the offensive end, namely a big drop in rebounding, assists and defense. I don’t think you can beat Boston 140-138.

You are calling for starting two absolute sieves on defense against an elite scoring team. I don’t see how you can outscore the #2 defense in the league that way. Our best help defender OG (assuming he is near full strength) is going to have his hands full with Tatum so he won’t be roaming as much as usual. Brunson gets Broken down with regularity by virtually every PG in the league. With I Hart backstopping him and OG lurking, it works. With I Hart drawn out of the paint by KP and OG busy on Tatum, that’s a real connundrum.

The notion of Bogey sprinting out on a scramble rotation to guard Jaylen Brown or KP either spotting up or off the dribble is comical to visualize.

I just don’t see how it works vs that team. The only time I want to see Bogey on the floor is if he is defending Sam Hauser or Luke Kornet, guys that can’t embarrass him off the dribble (i think:-) ).

Bottom line without a healthy Randle, Boston would be an incredible upset.

I’d rather match up Deuce against Jaylen Brown than Bogey. You get better everything.

Since I predicted Bojan was going to have a rougher time in NY (at least for awhile) maybe my reasoning at the time was correct.

He may be getting what the NBA defines as open looks, but open looks come in different locations and are created in different ways. The quality of the shot depends on both those things and the individual player’s preferences and skillset.

I’ll keep saying it.

Without either a high quality play making PG or very good team player/ball movement (actually both are the preference), players have to create more shots on their own. That generally means more tough shots.

One of the things that separates good offensive players from very good or even great offensive players is the ability to create their own shot like that and maintain good enough efficiency on them so the net of all the easy ones and tough ones is still very good.

A guy like Brunson is great at it.

A guy like Bojan is not.

Ideally, we don’t want Bojan dribbling around, driving into traffic, side stepping, back stepping, rushing or taking shots from places that are a little tougher than his main preferences. We don’t want him creating much of anything. We want legitimate open shots with good time from his preferred locations.

He didn’t suddenly become an inefficient scorer or lose his ability to hit open 3s. If he gets mostly good quality looks he’ll duplicate his better form. But IMO, overall, even if there is some noise in the data so far, he’s not getting the same overall quality of looks he’d gotten elsewhere in recent years. IMO part of that is due playing with no legitimate backup PG at times and being asked to score more because we lacked scoring off the bench. He’s trying to create more than is within his range to do at a very high level.

All of that was predictable based on his skills, our desperation for bench scoring and our lack of a backup PG.

It will work out fine when Randle is back and we start staggering him and Brunson to get more offense, playmaking, and shot creation on the court at all times.

Think OG is going into year 8.

a) How much woudl be OGs max contract from Leon vs. other GMs.
b) How much is fair compesation for OG vs. overpay?

Please help me here…can’t stop thinking about it all day. Worried that we can’t keep both him and iHart this summer.

BrunsonPeroneusLongus,

I agree with your entire previous post.

Personally, I don’t want Bojan on the court at all despite his ability to space the floor. We are just desperate for bench scoring now because of injuries and trades. Once we are healthy or at least healthier, he should have a small role off the bench to play off whoever Thibs uses out of Brunson/Randle to play with the 2nd unit.

I keep saying this. When you net out his offense and defense, Bojan is not a plus basketball player. He’s just better than Fournier (I think 🙂 . Next year he should be contract filler as we look to strengthen the bench and upgrade in the off season.

Just a thought about the Grimes + two 2nd rounders for Bojan & Burks trade. I am beginning to think they knew Grimes’s knee issues were worse than advertised and he was going to be of little use for the playoff drive and playoffs. He’s still having issues for Detriot and it would not shock me if he needs minor surgery in the off season. Not that I suddenly think it was a good long term move. I don’t. But they may have been even more desperate for bench help than we knew at the time.

I think people are underestimating Brunson’s defense. He’s been pretty good, perhaps even above average. His size is a problem, but he is by no means a sieve. The advance numbers have him as a neutral defender, which is good for a guy his size who exerts as much energy on offense.

But IMO, overall, even if there is some noise in the data so far, he’s not getting the same overall quality of looks he’d gotten elsewhere in recent years. IMO part of that is due playing with no legitimate backup PG at times and being asked to score more because we lacked scoring off the bench. He’s trying to create more than is within his range to do at a very high level.

I’m not convinced. I think there’s been enough ball movement when he’s on the court. And open shots are open shots. There were several shots where he was completely open and missed badly, including airballs. I think he’s in a slump or has the yips. He’ll probably come out of it.

I’m just so happy about the Mitch news.

Catching up with the news, but if Burks and Bojan continue shooting like they are, Mitch might have a 50% offensive rebounding rate.

Catching up with the news, but if Burks and Bojan continue shooting like they are, Mitch might have a 50% offensive rebounding rate.

To be pedantic, OREB% is the percentage of available rebounds the player secures, so his rate wouldn’t necessarily change. He’d just be getting higher totals because Bricks & Boan (no J) miss so many shots.

To be pedantic, OREB% is the percentage of available rebounds the player secures, so his rate wouldn’t necessarily change. He’d just be getting higher totals because Bricks & Boan (no J) miss so many shots.

Well he will be playing against backups so I think he will get a larger share of even more available rebounds. So I would expect an increase in OREB% and in offensive rebounds per possession. But agreed that the latter should increase more than the former.

thank you E…that’s an understandable perspective…

it feels like you’ve come to engage…this could be a pottery forum (or a video game forum 😊 ), and I believe you would behave the same way…

people would frustrate and disappoint you, and you would lash out…

not to be weird(er) but, it is as though you’re looking for something, you yourself are not sure what it is though…

it sounds like you familiarized yourself with us as characters, and felt comfortable to engage…

I can’t figure the why part out, yet…what’s missing, what are you looking for…

I rage often, is this rage? angry about stuff, go crush goblins online…

Hart is not going to play 40 mins per game when OG and Randle are both back…

Mitch would have already gotten a ring by default, like another Mitch (Mitch Richmond), but I like him playing in the games to earn his ring much better.

To the argument that Thibs is not giving the Detroit guys space to flourish: Burks has the 3rd highest usage on the team (tied with RJ). He shoots more often than IQ did. Bojan has a higher usage than DDV. What are we even doing here?

I’m just so happy about the Mitch news.

Me too! 🥳🎉🎉🎉

I’ve come to think that all this climate change crisis might be caused by… the way Thibs manages the Knicks! Yeah, that’s it, don’t fight it… better to accept the truth now! 😀

cyber, we talked about how Thibs is the cause of all of the world’s ills just a short time back. In fact, I mentioned at the time that my incessant need for people to spell things (especially player names) correctly is all because of Thibs, too!

I actually feel like Thibs has shown great patience with Bogey, gave him a bunch of 4th quarter mins at Sacramento when he was playing awful yet eventually scored 7 big pts in the quarter.

Damn no Giannis tonight

Strat, do you think the personnel in Detroit was better for getting the kind of looks you’re describing?

’ve come to think that all this climate change crisis might be caused by… the way Thibs manages the Knicks! Yeah, that’s it, don’t fight it… better to accept the truth now! 😀

The rumor is that his real name is Tom Mengele, not Tom Thibodeau. That explains it all! 😊

You’re focusing on the shot attempts part of the Grimes quote, but the headline is the fear.

Grimes is telling you point blank what it’s like to not be in the coach’s circle of trust. He’s describing the double standard we’ve all seen for years and he is telling you in no unclear terms that it affects a shooter’s confidence.

The fact that Bojan is chucking more shots than Grimes is doesn’t rebut the premise bc the premise is that it’s hell being outside the coach’s circle of trust, and playing in that hell does in fact impact shooting performance.

We’ve seen this happen with Evan, Grimes, and Bojan. All clearly not in coach’s good graces. All clearly pressing. All missing open shots at a wildly uncharacteristic rate.

Surely you would not argue that Bogey is in coach’s circle of trust just bc he manages to put up a lot of shots in a few minutes, would you? It’s very clear coach is holding his nose every time he has to play Bojan, and he is doing his best to limit the amount of time he has to.

What you are arguing is that man management is meaningless. A player should perform at the same rate whether he is comfortable or not, whether his morale is high or low. You’re entitled to that opinion, but you’re incredibly off base to suggest that someone who believes it is just making things up.

One could, in this position, say something along the lines of “I thought that the different success rate on open threes was random, but upon hearing a player directly state that the manner in which Thibs yanked him around affected his shooting confidence, and upon considering there have been three consummate professionals this season who also shot poorly on open threes under the same circumstances, perhaps I will no longer assert with certainty that the coach’s notorious manner of player management is an absolute nonfactor in shooting success.”

Bogey’s a professional basketball player. If he can’t knock down open shots because he’s afraid of Tom Thibodeau then quite frankly he sucks.

On Detroit Evan Fournier is shooting 32% from 3 and Grimes is shooting 14%.

Thibs yanked him around affected his shooting confidence, and upon considering there have been three consummate professionals this season who also shot poorly on open threes under the same circumstances, perhaps I will no longer assert with certainty that the coach’s notorious manner of player management is an absolute nonfactor in shooting success.”

You are trying to sell that this guy who grew up as a kid in Bosnia 150 miles from Srebrenica during that horrid Civil War is now clutching his pearls because Thibs spoke harshly to him or pulled him quickly for sucking and now he can’t function? I’m not buying any of that. I give that guy way more credit than that. I would bet my life this guy (to quote the Sopranos from the Pine Barren’s episode) washes his balls in ice water, After surviving that as a kid he’s got to have amazing character.

Shooters have shooting slumps sometime….

Y’all are welcome to believe that Bojan, Evan, and Grimes all shot horribly this year on their own merit. I am not trying to convince you.

But all three have been poorly managed, and you are asserting with certainty that the poor management has been an absolute non factor when there is absolutely no basis to have that certainty.

E’s assertion that bad man management has affected certain players is actually based on testimony and is a legitimate viewpoint that none of you have been able to successfully dispel.

Grimes didn’t even shoot 3s poorly this year, he just got outplayed by Donte

So if Thibs’ cold shoulders are responsible for poor shooting performance, is his warm embrace leading to better shooting?

Luckily Tom Thibodeau turned Miles McBride into an excellent shooter

Grimes whining earlier this season is a poor reflection on him not Thibs. I mentioned it during that time, just listen to Thibs’ quotes during his press conferences and you’ll see why DDV took over the starting SG role and hasn’t relinquished it.

FWIW I think Strat’s argument above is excellent and I buy that more than E’s.

Did you know that Tom Thibodeau single-handedly transformed Jalen Brunson from a .373 3PT shooter to a .407 3PT shooter?

He’s like the shooting whisperer! Unless you are Quentin Grimes, in which case he makes you forget how to shoot.

Luckily Tom Thibodeau turned Miles McBride into an excellent shooter

I actually think he probably did. The playing time, the trust, and the contact extension, IMO, were all big factors in Deuce’s breakout.

The Jalen one, not so much.

What you’re trying to say, JK, is that man management has no impact on anyone’s performance. It’s a reasonable opinion. It’s just not a certainty. And it’s completely fai

So did Grimes exit the circle of trust in the offseason? Because he was a pretty great shooter last year under the same coach.

Pritchard just grabbed a rebound from Brook Lopez’s hands. That should be grounds for mandatory retirement.

Good point BPL. I have it on good authority that the guy was an interior decorator. Killed 15 Czechoslovakians.

Strat, do you think the personnel in Detroit was better for getting the kind of looks you’re describing?

I haven’t seen any Piston’s basketball except against NY, but he started a lot of games for them and played next to Cunningham.

IMO the chances that Bojan suddenly can’t shoot anymore are 0%. So it’s either a bad run of luck (noise) or shot quality. I think it’s both.

I predicted his shot quality would decline a bit playing in our 2nd unit where he’d be asked to do more shot creation because we don’t have a real PG in that unit. I’m not sitting around with a spreadsheet tracking it all. I’ve seen him miss some open shots badly but I’ve also seen him taking shots I’d rather he not try.

I think things will be fine once Randle is back.

“He’s describing the double standard we’ve all seen for years and he is telling you in no unclear terms that it affects a shooter’s confidence.”

Hubert, it’s funny, I actually agree that putting Grimes in the corner, as with Obi, was poor management, as both needed to stretch their wings. But I do not believe that Thibs is actively mismanaging Bogey right now. Has Bogey earned Thibs’ trust? No, and he hasn’t earned ours, either, he sucks right now.

But he’s also averaging 22 minutes a game despite sucking, and he’s handling the ball in many different ways and taking a variety of shots from different locations. He’s not being ‘forced’ to stand in the corner.

So no, Thibs is not torturing, or mismanaging Bogey into bad play. Bogey’s in a nasty slump. Thibs is playing him 22 minutes despite the fact he’s playing like garbage. Thibs may play him less, especially when others come back, like OG. If Bogey still sucks, it’s 100% the right thing to do. Even if Bogey gets his shot back, his D is so atrocious that it still probably makes sense.

On Detroit Evan Fournier is shooting 32% from 3 and Grimes is shooting 14%.

thank you for that one DR ed, i just did that thing where you suddenly burst out laughing…

yes, the list of thibs cast off’s is not so terrific, eh?

Y’all are welcome to believe that Bojan, Evan, and Grimes all shot horribly this year on their own merit. I am not trying to convince you.

But all three have been poorly managed, and you are asserting with certainty that the poor management has been an absolute non factor when there is absolutely no basis to have that certainty.

E’s assertion that bad man management has affected certain players is actually based on testimony and is a legitimate viewpoint that none of you have been able to successfully dispel.

It close to impossible to criticize Brunson with a straight face, but he does have a tendency make up his mind he’s going to shoot early in a possession and then create something for himself. When he was playing with Randle and RJ, that didn’t leave a lot of room for other players to get shots. It’s less of an issue now because he HAS TO score more with RJ gone and Randle/OG out, but I think stylistically we’ve had some issues with balance at times for guys like J-Hart and Grimes (who both complained).

People are “entitled” to think man management is meaningless, in the sense that we should support free speech and freedom of conscience and the worth of every individual and if they think that, it warrants that baseline of residual respect and something like “entitlement.”

But beyond not invading that sacred human space, and respecting it, people really aren’t entitled to have such nonsense taken seriously in actual discussions aimed at discovering and identifying truth. There’s no entitlement to demand “proof” of the obvious; no one gets to say, “OK, PROVE TO ME that the Holocaust happened.”

**********************************

Geo — There isn’t a hint of rage behind anything I say. I’m used to and comfortable with strenuous rhetorical disagreement if things get to that. I shake hands at the end of depositions and the like with people who scream and shout at me or my colleagues and accuse us of all manner of stuff. Goes with the territory.

So did Grimes exit the circle of trust in the offseason? Because he was a pretty great shooter last year under the same coach.

My guess is he exited it when he played like shit to start the season.

Mind you all, this is not my argument. It’s E’s.

My argument is simply that reasonable minds can disagree about the impact of Thibs’ man management on player performance.

Mind you all, this is not my argument. It’s E’s.

Let’s not misstate the argument though. It’s not just man management; there’s a basketball X’s and O’s and atmosphere component to it as well.

But beyond man management, it’s also pretty much unarguable — other than here — that coaches are ultimately responsible for the performance of their players and getting the best version of those players out of those players. That’s like standard issue material, not remotely controversial. Coaches routinely get fired for not getting players to perform. Litigating this is like litigating climate change.

Tom Thibodeau is not getting the best version of Bojan Bogdanovic out of Bojan Bogdanovic. Is that Tom Thibodeau’s “fault.” I don’t really care, because that’s not the relevant question.

Scary Terry smoking the Cavs

Honestly who gives a shit if certain bench players apparently can’t play their best under Thibs, the best players on the team certainly can play their best for him and that’s the most important part.

Y’all are welcome to believe that Bojan, Evan, and Grimes all shot horribly this year on their own merit. I am not trying to convince you.

One of the biggest problems with hanging your argument on this is that Grimes did not shoot horribly this year. He took more 3s than he did last year, but he made 36% of his attempts. Last year he made 38%

You cannot tell if a guys shooting has gotten worse over 200 attempts if he’s making 2% fewer. Likewise you cannot tell a 40% shooter is now meaninfully worse at shooting because he makes 26/77 3 point attempts instead of 30/77. You might think those 4 missed shots are horrible, I guess that’s subjective, but we don’t even know if Bojan is worse, and if we can’t know that then we can’t blame someone.

Josh Hart isn’t better than a proper Bogey. Neither is Precious Achiuwa. Those are Thibs’s guys because they play the way Thibs prefers. But they aren’t better players, and there’s nothing objective out there to support such a conclusion.

And this is the kind of thing that lowers playoff ceilings.(*) Lowered it last year, threatens to again.

(*) And almost certainly the primary tanker of Thibs’s offenses year-in, year-out in the playoffs versus the regular season.

But I do not believe that Thibs is actively mismanaging Bogey right now.

I’ll tell you how I think he is: I believe it is willful that Bojan has not had an opportunity to play with our first unit. Precious Achiuwa was never so good that we couldn’t make that switch. That’s the bad management right there. Like Strat said, Bojan ain’t a guy you can just throw in with Alec Burks and Jericho Sims and expect to create his own offense. Bojan is consistently put into our worst lineups and using him that way is painfully stupid (the pain being ours for having to watch it).

Bickerstaff with another gem: Cavs down 3 with 15 seconds left and no timeouts. Their initial play out of time out breaks down, so they go for a 2-pointer with 3 seconds left. They had no timeouts! They foul the Heat, Rozier makes both free throws, and the Cavs can’t get a shot off.

Honestly who gives a shit if certain bench players apparently can’t play their best under Thibs, the best players on the team certainly can play their best for him and that’s the most important part.

That’s a solid point.

Can’t argue with this.

Oh, don’t sell yourself short, Hubert — it’s easy to argue with it. There isn’t a stitch of evidence that JH or PA are better basketball players than BB and no one would have thought such a thing a mere six weeks ago, A; and the narrative of TT’s career is identifying his boys in the regular season (like JH and PA, but not BB), riding his boys and his style to good regular seasons — only to go 31-41 come playoff time with offenses that don’t function anything like the regular season because he’s all-in on the JH’s and the PA’s, B.

okay not rage, my bad, that sounds right about you…you’re not angry, more disappointed with others…

ha, you can tell what my default mindset is though, i tend to see anger and rage in everyone else, cause it’s in me…

i remember what first attracted me to your writing, it was the critical nature of your posts…not just critical of things, critical of people…

i try hard to be positive, i have a very cynical nature though…

i see a world, full of flaws…people are most definitely flawed too…

tom thibodeau is a perfect foil for you…a flawed “authority” type…

are you here to simply yell at the world (us in this sense) – god damn are you all some stupid motherfuckers…

i mean i’ll be honest, every time i head out on to the freeway – that’s is about all i am thinking…

with that kind of critical mindset about others, i could see how this would be a good setting for you to just let out how stupid you really feel like other people are…

it’s hard for me to imagine such a “competitive” work environment…i take stuff really really personally…

may i suggest: working out some/more, sex, painting perhaps…all that energy has to go somewhere…

random dancing perhaps…

i remember you mentioning a view of the online world as being some type of a dissociative id…

oh my goodness, are we not real people to you…

fair point – i was pretty sure for a minute BPL was a bot, concerned with the hysterical nature of the humans…

Bickerstaff with another gem: Cavs down 3 with 15 seconds left and no timeouts. Their initial play out of time out breaks down, so they go for a 2-pointer with 3 seconds left. They had no timeouts! They foul the Heat, Rozier makes both free throws, and the Cavs can’t get a shot off.

2 games off the 3 seed with all our injuries, what a tremendous coacing job this season by Tom Thibodeau

There isn’t a stitch of evidence that JH or PA are better basketball players than BB and no one would have thought such a thing a mere six weeks ago

B. Bogdanovic 2022-23 BPM: 0.8 ; 2023-24 BPM: -3.1 (-6.0 with NYK)
J. Hart 2022-23 BPM: 0.9 (3.4 with NYK) ; 2023-24 BPM: -0.1
P. Achiuwa 2022-23 BPM: -1.6 ; 2023-24 BPM: -1.1 (-0.9 with NYK)

There is more to basketball than shooting.

Alec Burks’ BPM with the Knicks is literally -9.0.

Bojan Bogdanovic has the 13th worst BPM for qualified players this season. He’s the only Knick in the top 50

Wake me up when Bogey gets 11 rebounds and 11 assists in a game.

We already KNOW he can shoot 28% (the last five games he shot 33%, with a couple of those games well below 28).

And Geo, E wants the thread to be all about him. He’ll do and say anything to try and get the spotlight on his takes.

That’s what he wants.

Sadly it works, because his takes are so execrable and his tone so condescendingly insulting that it keeps triggering otherwise sensible folks to respond.

He knows that.

An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, rude, or upsetting statements online to elicit strong emotional responses in people or to steer the conversation off-topic. They can come in many forms and most trolls do this for their own amusement, but other forms of trolling are done to push a specific agenda.

Bucks made a game out of it, that’s pretty impressive without Giannis

Only two games behind the Bucks in the loss column. Here’s how they finish the season: vs Knicks, vs Celtics, vs Magic, @Thunder, @Magic. The rest of their schedule includes 5 gimmies and 3 tough games (vs Thunder, vs Lakers, @Pelicans). The 2 seed might be doable if OG gets back soon.

Only two games behind the Bucks in the loss column. Here’s how they finish the season: vs Knicks, vs Celtics, vs Magic, @Thunder, @Magic. The rest of their schedule includes 5 gimmies and 3 tough games (vs Thunder, vs Lakers, @Pelicans). The 2 seed might be doable if OG gets back soon.

If we win tomorrow in Denver, that is. The Nuggets are obviously the favorites. If we pull off yet another upset, this time in one of the least hospitable places in the NBA and while missing key players, there is no limit to what this team can achieve. Crossing fingers. 🤞🤞🤞

It’s nice to be close to the three seed, but we’re also not that far from the play in (three games)

It’s nice to be close to the three seed, but we’re also not that far from the play in (three games)

This is correct. Actually, my thinking in late February was that we would already be in the play-in by the end of March. Brunson cannot do it alone. Then I-Hart came back about two and a half weeks ago. He played well two of his first four games and we won both. OG came back about ten days ago, earlier than anticipated, and we won three more games. And then we won on Monday at Golden State. We could easily have had three less wins this month and be in the play-in right now, but we overachieved. Do not forget also that Cleveland has been doing us favor after favor the past few weeks. Nothing is certain but we are in a better than expected spot.

I believe the Bucks clinched the tiebreaker with us, so we’re essentially 2.5 games behind them in the loss column, correct?

Bickerstaff with another gem: Cavs down 3 with 15 seconds left and no timeouts. Their initial play out of time out breaks down, so they go for a 2-pointer with 3 seconds left. They had no timeouts! They foul the Heat, Rozier makes both free throws, and the Cavs can’t get a shot off.

God, he sucks.

All I know is that it’s going to be hilarious if Bojan hits like 8 out of his next 10 threes, which could totally happen.

Excerpt from Macri’s latest mailbag, when asked about the impact of whatever OG’s new contract will be on other moves like retaining iHart and/or Precious:

Best guess: they’d love to come out of this summer with both Anunoby and I-Hart, but still ducking the first apron (and don’t rule out them dealing away one or both first round picks for future draft assets if it means ducking the apron). I think they can get OG (and I-Hart) to agree to a number that gets them in just under the line.

More likely, I imagine they hope to use one or both of those picks to trade for a star, which would in turn lessen the blow of being a first apron team, since the primary apron restrictions hamper the ability to pull off big trades, and in this scenario, they’d only be above the first apron to begin with because they already made their big trade.

Predictions for tomorrow’s thread:

1) A certain troll will criticize Tom Thibodeau for some specific act in a way that he claims to definitively support his general thesis that Tom Thibodeau’s eccentricities will ultimately lower the team’s playoff ceiling.
2) A broad swath of KB regulars will react negatively to said troll’s self-serving interpretation.
3) Said troll will accuse all who disagree with him as Thibs shills, employing sarcastic tropes like “Thibs can’t fail, he can only be failed” to broad-brush all those who dare to dismiss him.
4) Said troll’s minion of one will rush to his defense.
5) geo will cleverly call out said troll by asking him about his job stress and what he has for breakfast.
6) Some posters will beg the crowd to just ignore said troll, and the troll himself will suggest that there is nothing wrong with continually cutting rancid farts at an otherwise splendid gathering, and if folks don’t like it, all they have to do is hold their nose.

Recent Posts

Recent Comments

Archives

155 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.03.20)”