[New York Post] – Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:37:00 GMT
- Bojan Bogdanovic, Donte DiVincenzo broke shooting slumps when Knicks needed it most
- Josh Harts celebration with Donovan Mitchells chain reinforces a concerning message to the Cavs Jimmy Wa
- Final Score: Cleveland Cavaliers lose to New York Knicks 107-98
- What Did Hart Say to Mitchell, Cavs Bench After Key Three?
- Cavaliers spent months reacting to the playoff loss to the Knicks; they’re still learning
[hoopsrumors.com] – Tue, 05 Mar 2024 01:00:00 GMT
Knicks Sign Jacob Toppin To Two-Way Contract
[Posting and Toasting] – Mon, 04 Mar 2024 19:30:00 GMT
- Hart & Soul
- New York Notes: Hart, DiVincenzo, Simmons, Claxton
- Josh Hart logging big minutes for banged-up Knicks
- Josh Hart dominates the glass Thursday
- Knicks’ Josh Hart: Dominates glass in Thursday’s loss
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 04 Mar 2024 22:08:17 GMT
Injury Report: Hawks vs Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 04 Mar 2024 15:51:50 GMT
What Could Anunoby’s Next Knicks Contract Look Like?
[Hoops Hype] – Tue, 05 Mar 2024 08:32:15 GMT
Hawks vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest
140 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.03.05)”
Here’s a very positive & enjoyable story about Josh Hart making Cleveland his bitch to kick things off, today:
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2024/03/josh-harts-celebration-with-donovan-mitchells-chain-sends-a-message-that-should-worry-cavs-fans-jimmy-watkins.html
I often disagree about the value of things that don’t show up in the box score but tugging the chain… that should have been worth something.
Josh Hart also owns a minority stake in the 76ers, who we play twice next week. So this should be a very good week for our beloved swingman as he (hopefully) continues to regress towards his mean shooting.
I’ve been thinking about the Hollinger article and Boston. The Celtics take more threes and are better at shooting than the average team. Let’s say they shoot three percent better than their opponent does. That’s probably something like ten extra points a game because of their shooting. But having everybody on the arc means you won’t rebound those threes well and, even with good three point shooting, there are still a lot of rebounds. If the opponent is good at offensive rebounding and gets ten more possessions because of that, that basically neutralizes Boston’s three point shooting advantage.
That may be, Knick Fan. I just can’t imagine a fully healthy Celtics team — or even one with just the top 5-6 healthy — losing to anyone in the East, and maybe not anyone in the West. It’s a perfectly-constructed roster for the way the game is played right now.
I hate it.
In terms of play style, the Knicks are still playing “Moneyball” — mediocre EFG%, low-ish turnovers, slowest pace in the league, leading the league in OReb. There’s no real reason to think it will work in the playoffs any better than it has for Thibs last year, or over the years.
Although it’s clearly better with a team at full health, even the Knicks’ EFG% against is mediocre — 18th in the league.
As always, it would be nice if they’d make a final break away from Thibs-ball and just do normal, modern things better than the other teams. You know, like the Celtics do.
Much as majority sentiment seems to want to do, you can’t just strip away this context from the debate over dudes like Josh Hart. It’s not just Josh, it’s also what he more broadly signifies.
“I think he [Randle] should be back later this month, middle of the month maybe. I think OG Anunoby, late last week, was a little behind Randle, he hadn’t been cleared for contact.”
https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1764876734803919072
Every time I feel that way, Alan, I remember that the Jokic is a cheat code. As great as these Celtics are, I actually can’t envision them beating Denver.
I can, unfortunately, envision Jamal Murray pulling a hamstring, or the Clippers knocking Denver out before the finals.
Clippers-Celtics is pretty close, IMO. The Clippers have holes that the Celtics don’t, but the Clippers also have Kawhi and I think he can fuck Tatum up a little bit.
And Miami always has a chance. They are significantly better than last year’s team. Probably not to the same degree Boston is, though. But they’re sleep walking through the regular season moreso than usual. When the playoffs start and they are healthy, they will have a chance.
I have completely changed my answer to your question last week, btw. I’m 6 seed all the way for us now after what we saw in Cleveland. And if you look at the schedules, it seems very likely that could be the case even without intentional tanking. (I have Miami and Orlando at 48 wins, us at 47.)
Boston is clearly the best team on paper in the league. Can White and Jrue continue to shoot 41% and 45% respectively from 3 way, way above their lifetime averages? This is why we play the games. Their coaching is suspect and they have platzed in the clutch in recent seasons. They aren’t very deep. But they are justifiably the favs.
It’s been 15 games since Randle and OG went down. In those 15 games we’re 7-8. So basically right at 500. 4 of those games Brunson also missed (if you include Cleveland where he only played like one minute). And we’re 2-2 in those games.
This is the definition of treading water. If anything, we should be praising Thibs and the guys who are playing for being able to play 500 ball when they’re missing one of their all-stars, their 3rd best player and best defensive player (and who also chips in 15 points a game and shoots 39 percent from 3). Oh and their starting center plus their back up center is nursing an injury.
It’s remarkable. We’re getting closer and closer to the point where Randle and OG and Mitch will return and we’ve only slipped a few spots in the standings while playing 500 ball. McBride and Precious have stepped up big time and proven they belong in the rotation while gaining invaluable experience and PT.
Yet every day you come on here and it’s the usual suspects criticizing the coach, the GM and the players who are playing.
I’m all for constructive criticism and debate. But it’s the same dumb arguments every day and it’s happening during a time when the team is facing it’s biggest test of the season and they’re actually doing quite admirably all things considered.
I’m predicting that Clyde at some point will say “We have Shake, now we just need to bake”. 😀
This ^^^^^^^^^^
The Knicks over performed their regular season numbers in the playoffs last year.
I would not assume that Cleveland will end up the 3 seed, especially with Mitchell out for a while (at least 3 games). Their schedule is not the easiest either.
Huh? The Knicks’ offense was significantly worse in the playoffs than the regular season.
That happens every year with Thibs. We’ve already been over this at long length, and the numbers are indisputable — but if you want to continue to fantasize there’s nothing really stopping you.
Stop demanding that people think a particular way, particularly about basketball. I don’t make that demand of you.
You’ve already been over this at long length. The numbers are disputable because your methodology is wack.
I think we still have an available roster spot?
For the love of God… From Microsoft Co-Pilot “In total, Thibodeau has coached the Knicks in 148 games, achieving a win-loss record of 82 wins and 66 losses. His impact on the team has been significant, and he continues to shape their performance with his defensive focus and high standards.”
Prior to that loser Thibs:
David Fizdale had a record of 21 wins and 83 losses.
Mike Miller had a record of 17 wins and 27 losses.
Thibs’s teams underperform their regular season offense every single year, sometimes dramatically as in both Knick playoff years. Not only in raw terms but also relative to league under(over) performance. There’s nothing remotely “wack” about that “methodology,” in part because it’s unambiguously right, but also because it doesn’t really take much of a “methodology” to figure out.
Denver didn’t play anyone near the level Boston is playing at this year… or OKC for that matter.
I think their championship path last year was a relative cakewalk pitting them against flawed rosters in a broken Western conference. The top of the West looks a lot tougher with Minnesota having figured it out, OKC’s talented youth showing out, and the Clippers adding a 3rd star in Harden.
The Nuggets are definitely in the mix, but I don’t think it’ll be as easy this time.
Yeah
The Celtics have to be a pretty strong favorite at this point. They have a great offense and a terrific defense. In the east especially I’m not sure who would have a decent chance against them-maybe the Bucks because of how good Giannis is? Doc vs Mazzulla feels like two drunks fighting. Maybe the Heat would have a shot if they were healthy because of the coaching mismatch
(Among others here) I mentioned MONEYBALL back in January, when our amazing start to the new year reminded me of the Oakland A’s winning streak at the heart of that story, a glimpse of perfection destined to fade.
Also in that story, Oakland’s justification for acquiring low cost players was the mantra “He gets on base.” As per the Hollinger article, the mantra for the Celtics seems to be, “He shoots threes.” For Thibs, it is prolly, “He gets rebounds.” No judgment; just guessing.
Agree. This should absolutely be the case, and we did outbound the Celtics overall: 39/36 total and 15/11 offensive. But, per your point, we should/could have done way better on the defensive end, losing by one: 24/25.
Even with only 11 offensive boards, eye-test-wise, there were a couple of sequences where the Celtics got ~3 OReb in a row on long bounces or just plain luck. Each of those sequences was soul-killing (in my memory that I am trying to block out).
PS — +1 to Swifty and Cyber about positive constructive “banter.” IMO, it’s a miracle that the Knicks are not in free fall 0-9+ with all those injuries. Let’s keep it going.
Denver is a bit tough to evaluate because they play Murray 30 minutes a night in the regular season and like 40 in the playoffs, and for whatever reason he’s historically been a much better player in the post season. This year fwiw he’s been excellent in the regular season so maybe he’s going to suck in the playoffs
PPS – Unlike others, perhaps, I consider “Moneyball” to be a very good appellation (in case that’s not clear). I absolutely want our admin to wring every possible advantage from our roster and find overachievers wherever possible. At their contracts, I also think Brunson and Julius can be considered good “Moneyball” assets.
Now, re: the Celtics, It may turn out that stockpiling 3pt shooters is in fact the “new best way” to build a team, but I like where the Knicks are headed, and I’ve really enjoyed the last few years.
Is this some sort of 4 dimensional chess joke? Virtually everybody’s offensive efficiency goes down in the playoff vs the regular season. Look at the primary scorers from last year’s Denver Nuggets regular season vs playoffs:
Jokic TS% 63.1 vs 70.1
Porter, jr 54.1 vs 62.1
Gordon 58.8 vs 61.7
Murray 58,6 vs 57.1
Only Murray increased his TS% marginally and that was because injuries causing him to miss 17 regular season games depressed his regular season TS%.
Thibs’s playoff offense consistently goes down more than league. Asked and answered long ago.
One day, we’ll be able to tell our grandchildren about the start of the Shake Milton era of Knickerbocker basketball.
I think it’s a fine balance between getting extra rebound and the extra points the opponents get from shooting threes. Depending on the relative balance of the two teams and on luck, it could go either way.
If you go to Basketball Reference and rank the teams by offensive rebound percentage, the top ten is a very mixed bag. (Top three: Knicks, Jazz, Hawks. Blazers fifth.)
Do the same thing with EFG% and the top ten is a group of quite a bit better teams. (Top five: Celtics, Pacers, Thunder, Bucks, Clippers. No dreck in the entire group.)
I don’t think the Knicks traded for Bojan and Alec Burks to shore up their offensive rebounding for the playoffs.
Lol, sure. You just bludgeon us with the same stupid shit over and over again in post after post when we’re down and yet disappear with mysterious illnesses when we’re winning.
Nice Fred Katz article on Deuce in the Athletic today
So what about Thibs’s teams defensive ratings? Because those are better in the playoffs.
Regular season defensive rating his teams average 108.1. Playoffs they average 106.6. Opposing teams shoot 45.4% in the regular season against his teams, playoffs opposting teams shoot 42.7%. 3 point percentage they shoot 36%, playoffs they shoot 33.5%.
The Knicks have been a poor offensive eFG% team for what seems like forever, but they were on a nice upswing post-OG trade, pre-Randle injury. The team eFG% during that period was .559, which would be good for 11th in the league. They didn’t drop off in terms of the other Four Factors either, so it was an elite offense during that period.
Obviously they weren’t going to sustain that for the remainder of the season, but at full strength it’s a legitimately good offensive team that can even shoot a little bit.
We’re kind of glossing over the fact that Boston’s 3pt shooters do everything else well too.
We can run a unit of Brunson/Deuce/Donte/Burks/Bojan, which is probably a better group of shooters than Boston if Blarts gets his crap together, but it won’t end well.
One other thing about the celtics, is if you put together a Celtics offense but don’t have guys who are also all really good defensive players (at least the starters) then congratulations, you are the 2024 Indiana Pacers.
The Thibs/playoffs discourse remains droll. Point to specific offensive underperformance and explain why it occurred because of the coach if you really want to die on this stupid hill.
Thibs’ teams have mostly beaten worse teams and lost to better teams in the playoffs, with most exceptions to that coming when they beat better teams as the Knicks did last year.
Something, something, Elfrid Payton’s 8 minutes across 5 games.
I pointed out the reason(s) last year, literally in advance of them happening.
The reasons have been explained at length, and I’m not the only one saying it. If you don’t know the explanation by now, you’re not paying attention. That’s fine — you don’t have to pay attention, there’s no rule saying you have to — but then again when someone isn’t paying attention to things other people are saying, they’re more bloviating than conversing.
He’s lost 4-1 to lower seeds twice, and he lost in six to an 8 seed last year. It would help your analytical persuasive techniques if you’d stop shading and gaslighting and just play it straight.
Alan’s use of recency bias in his review of The Regime brought a smile to my face. Also, wish I had read it before investing my time in the first episode.
A nice read for the “Thibs hates young platers” crowd.
When it comes to Thibs playoff record I will always be amazed that he won a Game 7 on the road with Nate Robinson as his 2nd leading scorer in the series.
Thibs’s playoff record wouldn’t even be relevant if it looked like he was realizing the error of his ways, but there’s no real evidence that’s happening, unfortunately. It’s certainly possible for coaches to change and grow and improve, but you really have to squint to see any of that here. I’m typically an anti-squintite.
The Bucks collapse may need to wait until the playoffs, but I’m still carefully monitoring the Suns. Booker is now hurt, they are just 0.5 game above the play-in, and have a ridiculously difficult schedule ahead (2x Boston, 2x Wolves, 2x Denver, 2xClippers, OKC, Bucks, 2x Cavs). I don’t know that they can hold off Sacramento, Dallas, or the improving Lakers and Warriors.
the Hawks lost their last 2 games to the Nets so we might have a shot even though we’re shorthanded. Vegas actually has us favored by 3
E did make a prediction in advance of the playoffs last year, namely that the Knicks wouldn’t win a series.
E is blaming Tom Thibodeau for the 2010-2011 Bulls losing to the Heat with, um, some notably good players, and for the Knicks losing to a finals team last year.
Just incredible stuff.
Let’s say they shoot three percent better than their opponent does. That’s probably something like ten extra points a game because of their shooting. But having everybody on the arc means you won’t rebound those threes well and, even with good three point shooting, there are still a lot of rebounds. If the opponent is good at offensive rebounding and gets ten more possessions because of that, that basically neutralizes Boston’s three point shooting advantage.
in the real world you don’t get that kind of offensive rebounding advantage from shot selection. the celtics have an orb% of 24.6% on their missed 3s this year, while giving up 29.9% on opponents’ missed 2s. So for every 10 attempts where the celtics are shooting a 3 and the opponent is shooting a 2, they are losing .5 possessions, or about .6 points for those 10 shots. even focusing on an elite rebounding team like the nyk leaves you with relative peanuts: taking the avg reb rates of nyk/bos, you would expect bos to get 24% of their 3pa and nyk to get 34% of their missed 2pa. That gets you 1 extra possession or around 1.2 points from the ten shots.
of course, boston also wouldn’t really get an 10 extra points a game by shooting more 3s at 300bp better than opponents, even ignoring rebounding. boston attempts 42 3s a game, hitting 38.6%. If they instead shot league average 35 3pa per game and hit a below average 35.6%, they’d score 11 fewer points from 3pa, but that would be offset by 7 more 2pa. Those attempts would net them 8 more pts/gm, leaving a mere 3pt/gm net advantage from combined elite 3pt shooting and volume. accounting for the expected rebounding disparity would only drop that advantage to 2 to 2.5pts / game.
if we wanted to get even more nuanced, 2pa create more ft attempts than 3pa so the ts% on the marginal 2s might be even higher. but 3pa also typically create fewer turnovers, a partial offset.
a point i’ve rarely seen noted is that the celtics vaunted 5-out starters have in fact not been a very high volume 3pt shooting group, averaging only 36.8 3pa/100, yet produce an even higher offensive rating (125.5 / 100) than the overall team numbers.
I guess it’s actually three times he’s lost 4-1 to a lower seed, but I wasn’t counting that one. I was counting his whiffs to the Wizards and Hawks.
He lost to an eight seed last year. Simply fact.
Thibs won a ring with the Celtics. He’s a proven big dawg WINNER. Look at Doc’s record after Thibs left and the talent Doc had under him—not a single title!!! Thibs was the big DAWG of that team, he beat Kobe in the finals. How many times has Spo beaten Kobe in a finals? ZERO
Big DAWG and moxie. That’s what Thibs is. Moxie moxie big dawg moxie DAWG moxie big big moxie dawg dawg.
Riiiinnnnnggggggzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, Macri’s newsletter is the best in a while today. He points out that the Knicks’ AST% has been higher with Brunson out, but this obviously hasn’t translated to anything close to a better offense with him out (our offense is much, much better with him playing).
He speculates that the non-Brunson Knicks might have a little more offensive creativity than they’re able/willing to show while playing with Brunson, since he’s so damn good it’s hardly necessary.
The apex version of our offense most importantly includes Jalen Brunson, but also may well include the rest of the guys stepping up from a creativity perspective.
This is actually something I’m very open to criticism of Thibs for—it sure seems like the game plan when we have Brunson and Randle is to get them the ball and figure everything else out after.
That mostly works because those guys are really good in isolation and the supporting players are good at converting looks off the advantages they generate, but we should definitely look to incorporate some of the stuff we’ve been running in their absence once they’re back.
You left out ruff rydah
Is it fair to ask for a reasonable citation here?
It’s fair, but the numbers have already been outlined in detail. The only necessary source is Basketball Reference. It’s probably findable in the archives.
Damn, this is why my sports talkshow career will never go anywhere and why SAS gets paid the big bucks
Yeah, that’s what thoughtful people like Zach Harper (and, well … others) were saying all along in re people like RJ Barrett.
E right on target with 18% of all the posts today. At least he says interesting things each time that aren’t the same thing he said in his last post. And the other posts. And the posts from yesterday. And last week.
+1 to Noble’s exegesis of Macri above. And I wonder if our run of “perfection” in January may have combined a higher AST% with better offense bc Brunson/OG/Randle were all playing. It certainly felt like more “sharing and caring” was going on. Was that a brief glimpse of the Apex?
To his credit Thibs will often allow cutting and passing from players who have learned it elsewhere, even if he won’t teach it.
The Heat are so tough to predict. Consider Caleb Martin. In the regular season last year he was RJ Barrett in November/December. And in the postseason he was OG Anunoby in January! (Those are literal comps via bpm, btw. He went from -2.3 to +2.5.)
Was that totally random? Probably but we can’t quite rule out the return of Playoff Caleb. Add Herro, Rozier, Love, and that’s a team that can match 3s with Boston.
I also think Miami has a mental edge over those guys similar to (but not as dominant as) what we have over Cleveland.
Milwaukee would probably get swept, and I begrudgingly accept that we’d be fortunate to lose in 5. But the Heat can beat Boston, IMO.
I mentioned it during the last game thread, but I was very interested to see us play our offense through iHart on the high post, a la Jokic, rather than the endless dribbling and hand-offs around the arc. At least it’s a different look, and probably encourages more cutting.
Not sure if that’s something that we’ll see when Brunson and Julius are back, nor am I certain it’s a better option than giving them the ball and wishing them luck. But it felt like a bit of fresh air.
@Raven. Yes. Agree. More please.
One (funny?) thing about the Celtics and even the Warriors. Both teams are so obvs set up to shoot endless threes that any strong pick and roll cut to the hoop for an easy bucket felt like a surprise — a demoralizing dagger to the heart — the way clutch threes used to feel back in the day. I guess that’s the whole point 😉
BB Ref has a link Thibs vs NBA offensive production in playoff vs regular season. If this was so obvious and “asked and answered” I thought you might have the info at the tip of your tongue, so to speak?
howdy milo, I hope things are going well for you…
definitely, I think Boston upgraded a lot more with KP & Jrue than Miami did with Rozier, Melton, and a healthy Herro but who knows.
It’ll be interesting to see if a healthy Miami team can click in the regular season.
Comparing regular season O-rating to playoff O-rating doesn’t control for sample size, strength of schedule, injuries to key players, or really anything at all. It’s a total waste of time, as no reasonable conclusion can be drawn from it. No coach that has ever existed is immune to this criticism. Pat Riley coached the Miami Heat to the playoffs 8 times. He never had a higher O-rating in the playoffs than in the regular season in any of those years. And it was never even close. The regular season he averaged a 105.4 rating, the playoffs he averaged 97.5. Even when he won the championship his team’s O-rating went significantly down for the playoffs. It means absolutely nothing.
A lot of RJ’s offensive improvement is him making like 42% of his 3PA, which is probably not likely to be a long term thing. Him dunking more, making more assisted shots, that sort of thing might be sustainable. But that’s not our problem anymore.
I’ll buy the argument that “the playoffs is a whole other sport” or whatever the argument is. Yes, things materially change in the playoffs– the top players play heavier minutes thus rotations are shorter, defenses hone in on weaknesses more, you’re playing the same opponent repeatedly so matchup problems get magnified, et cetera. Those things aren’t deniable, they’re just the basic facts.
But still, we are dealing with tiny sample sizes when it comes to playoff games, sample sizes so small that it is foolish to extrapolate huge narratives from them. A player could have a good series or two, but that doesn’t inherently make that player a “good playoff player.” In a different matchup that same player might have stunk out the joint.
I think there’s a real tendency to overreact to small sample size theater and to come to overly broad conclusions as a result when it comes to the playoffs.
Sure, you can win championships with slower paces and less efficient offenses in the playoffs, if other things fall into place and you’re an elite and adaptable coach like Pat Riley — it’s just that Thibs has never really come close to doing that.
Basically, Thibs’s shit is easier than average to figure out when teams start focusing in the playoffs and he’s never effectively adjusted to that. And therefore the relative gaps between his regular seasons and other teams’ routinely close come playoff time, and beyond just the fact that the playoffs have better teams.
The reasons why this happens and the reasons Thibs’s shit is easier to figure out are pretty obvious and have been outlined on Knickerblogger at length, not just by me but by others — but resisters and holdouts are to be expected. Let’s hope that somehow he finds the way to buck his clear career trend this year.
I wouldn’t go so far as to call the playoffs “a whole other sport.” I’d say the playoffs are different enough, though, that regular season flaws and gimmicks can be and are systematically exposed — primarily by the difference between the troubadour regular season and the intensive focus solely on one team and like ten players that defines the playoffs.
As one of many examples, Nate McMillan had Thibs’s and Randle’s shit figured out before the tipoff of Game 1 and that never wavered. During the regular season they didn’t bother with figuring out either, or gave the process at most a cursory effort.
Donovan Mitchell has gone between this guy is borderline unplayable and this is the best player in the NBA in various playoff series
So did the Celtics.
We’ve been over this a million times.
E will say the playoff problem is Thibs when we talk about Thibs, he’ll say the problem is Randle when we talk about Randle, and he’ll say the problem is hustle bunnies when we talk about anyone else. However, he will never acknowledge the injuries.
Ptmilo. Thanks for the nice analysis. It’s better than I could have done. I am confused about one thing. At the beginning you conclude the rebounding edge gives about one point extra per ten shots. But then you start talking points per game. If you get a one point advantage through your rebounding for every ten shots isn’t that about a ten point advantage for a whole game? That would seem to outweigh the Celtics three point advantage per game due to their good three point shooting.
What E WILL do is say it all over and over and over again.
Up to 19% of all posts today. Go break 20% and ensure thread destruction and ruining everyone’s day, E! I mean, why not, right?
well okay donnie, and um your point is what 😛
another post in a similar view, cuz well, the edit button just disappeared…
it’s almost as if donnie you are suggesting that KB is just one big circle jerk – with E posing as our stunning young voluptuous model…
is that what you were saying donnie?
Don’t read them if you don’t want to.
Well now that I’ve finally rehabbed my back, I have in fact been able to get to the gym more ….
I don’t know if there’s any truth to this and I don’t think it matters.
I do know our offense cratered in the playoffs last year, and it was no normal dip like some random Pat Riley team.
We went from 117.8 ORtg (3rd in NBA) to 108.9 (which would have ranked 30th in the regular season).
In 2021 we weren’t a particularly good offensive team but the postseason dropoff was once again extreme. We went from 110.6 to 103.5 (which again would have been 30th in the NBA).
I give no fucks about the Bulls or Wolves. We’ve played 16 playoff games and haven’t been able to score at a rate that would put us in the top 30 NBA teams.
It’s a real problem.
Cause it’s so easy to do when you’re scrolling and every other post is from you.
It’s very easy to do. If you see a post with my name on it, and you don’t want to read my posts, don’t read the posts with my name on it.
Looked at this way, literally every post I’ve ever made has a built-in trigger warning on it.
QED.
This blog is a conversation and each thread is a new conversation between a bunch of people. When you hijack a thread with every other comment, you are hijacking the conversation. Telling people to just ignore your comments is ignoring the fact that you are hijacking the thread EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY with the same tired bullshit.
PLEASE LEAVE THIS BLOG. NO ONE LIKES YOU.
for whatever reason we missed a good amount of open shots in the playoffs last year, I remember looking it up one of the many other times E was saying the same things he’s saying today. And especially against Miami we turned the ball over more, which I’m sure contributed to scoring less. If we’re healthy we should have some more guys who can at least dribble the ball around without giving it away this year.
This is getting at the heart of my recent complaints about Thibs and very occasional frustration with Brunson (yeah I said it).
When you don’t have players in the lineup that can create for themselves, you need more ball and player movement to create high quality looks. That doesn’t mean you’ll have some super efficient offense with movement, but it will be better than with less movement.
When you do have players that can create for themselves (like Brunson and Randle) that’s a huge advantage, but that doesn’t mean the correct strategy is to utilize that skill all the time.
IMO you should still be encouraging more ball and player movement and less holding, dribbling and self shot creation.
IMO Randle and Brunson would be even more efficient and get higher quality looks if there was less holding and dribbling.
The kind of shot creation skill they possess should be used more frequently late in the shot clock, against obvious mismatches and in key higher pressure situations where the others might not be up to making the pressure shot. It should not be a primary strategy from the start of almost every half court possession.
Would it surprise you to hear that the normal “Riley dip” was more than last year’s Knicks “crater” several times?
Miami Heat under Pat Riley:
-12.7
-7.1
-5.2
-6.9
-7.1
-13.7
-2.5
-7.6
Thibs in 2023: -8.9
Thibs in 2021: -7.9
And Riley’s not the only guy. Popovich had a -15 dip once.
Thibs may have legit issues, but 5 game samples are useless. We should all be able to agree on that.
“PLEASE LEAVE THIS BLOG. NO ONE LIKES YOU.”
I like E. He’s well-written, and even when I don’t agree with him he makes salient points and does so articulately. He only forays into pretending not to know how to spell players’ names relatively occasionally, so it’s much easier to take.
I know that many of you are thinking “Of course *Doogie* likes E…….He is just as annoying as E is!” And some of you might even say so. But so be it. 🙂
I don’t find it challenging at all
Here’s RJ Barret talking about his improved efficiency in Toronto.
“system” “running” “moving” “cutting” “unselfish”
Actually, this “conversation” started with a question about Josh Hart and the trade. It’s continued apace. So be it.
I can agree that a 5 game sample isn’t particularly revealing, but Thibs has coached 72 playoff games.
“And Riley’s not the only guy. Popovich had a -15 dip once.”
Those guys have won multiple championships. Apples and oranges. If Thibs’s offenses had underperformed their regular seasons and Thibs had otherwise adjusted and won, this wouldn’t be a topic of conversation.
He enjoys hijacking threads. When you argue with him, and certainly when you explain to him that he’s being an a**hole, repeating the same position ad nauseam, he giggled with pleasure. Some people are like that.
Luckily it’s not against the rules to scroll past him.
I don’t think it’s so easy to get as many high quality 3 point shots as the Celtics get. Yes, they can shoot well, but part of why they shoot well is they get high quality looks and are probably getting more of them in their player’s preferred locations (like we try to do with OG and DDV in their preferred corners). That takes good spacing, good penetration, quick ball movement etc… They have so many threats from both outside and going to the basket they can beat you any way they want depending on how you choose to defend them.
It’s not so easy to just plug in changes to 3 point attempts and 2 point attempts and keep the shooting percentages static.
Sure, this is true. But we played eleven playoff games last year. Five of those were against the #1 ranked defense in the NBA. If we played the Cleveland Cavaliers in 45% of our games in the regular season, we probably wouldn’t have a great offensive rating then either.
Are we measuring the “playoff” dip adjusted for pace?
The games tend to slow down in the playoffs on top of just playing against better than average defenses.
I can’t wait to see what the Pacers do in the playoffs.
The Thibs numbers are all per 100 possessions.
I enjoy not being the most argumentative person on the blog, but then again I think Frank should get our last roster spot and am just being quiet about it. 😉
Funny how “winning” isn’t among those descriptors… The got the undiscovered diamond in the rough Barrett, surefire All Star pg in IQ added to the greatest untouchable draft choice ever in Scotty Barnes and two perfectly good starters in Poeltl and Trent… what happened? 12-20….
Someone else can do this per 100 possessions if they want, but in terms of points:
–Regular season versus Cleveland, 4 games, 108.75 points per game.
–Playoffs versus Cleveland, 5 games, 99.6 points per game.
I didn’t realize Atlanta was also missing Okongwu. Some tasty Bruno Fernando vs Precious Achiuwa battles coming tonight.
Adding my two cents as someone who posts relatively frequently but not a lot: I do find the hijacking of threads to be exhausting, and it’s one reason I often stay away from the blog – because the voices I like to hear from end up getting drowned. If there was a mute button, I would use it, but in the absence, I’d rather not to have to deal with the likes of E or Boogie Down ever.
He’s shooting 48% from 3 over his last 15 games, he should have moved more when he was a Knick
In 100% of Thibs’ 16 games as a Knick, our offense has failed to be above the worst offense in the entire NBA.
I don’t know, man. Maybe the sky really is blue.
Nobody’s getting “drowned” and everyone’s free to “hijack” in their direction.
Most of the “argumentation” and “hijacking” around here is relitigating basic shit like, “Yeah, well all offenses are less efficient in the playoffs, you ever think of that?” as if people like me haven’t already thought that through before posting.
How well does a player’s shooting in the playoffs in 2012 correlate to a different player’s shooting in the playoffs in 2023?
Happy that I don’t feel bad thinking I may have triggered today’s silliness. Carry on…
Hubert: thank you for that first post on Josh Hart snatching souls…loved it.
The issue with E is his refusal to accept countervailing evidence.
The offense in the playoffs is a problem, it’s less clear that problem lays with Thibs. Randle exists and is a significant confounding variable that E refuses to acknowledge on this thread. He’s been awful in both playoffs beyond what can be attributed to any coaching scheme. It doesn’t matter what play Thibs draws up if Randle bricks the shot, as he repeatedly did. However, if we discuss Randle’s value tomorrow, he’s the lone cause of our playoff failures.
It’s the same schtick with all his arguments, he blatantly refuses to accept contrary evidence to the extent he’ll refuse to read the entirety of an article that answers his own question and he’ll even dismiss his own discoherence.
His prose is passable—writing in absolutes without engaging in the complexities or probabilistic nature of the real world is a simple, inane task—but his arguments are insipid statements he tortures into grandiose diatribes.
And 32% of all posts today is one of you clowns arguing with E.
You guys like fighting with E so much that you will literally take one of the dumbest positions possible: that Thibs’ teams don’t struggle to score in the playoffs.
Maybe it’s Randle, maybe it’s noise, maybe Pat Riley in 1997…
How about maybe it was bc we played a center who can’t shoot next to a wing who can’t shoot next to another wing who can’t shoot next to a power forward who isn’t the best shooter, either? And maybe the part where we combined all that with barely any motion didn’t help.
Can’t we just agree this is suboptimal and move on?
Re: Boston, offense and threes
I thought the Knicks have the most 40%+ shooters in the league…
We’re acting like January didn’t show that when you surround JB and Randle with snipers and offensive rebounders, – they’re capable of running up 120+ points on everyone.
Only two things Boston has on rest of the east are an elite rim protector and spacer in KP and three elite on ball defenders and shooters. Most rim protectors can’t shoot and most teams have one or max two elite shutdown on ball defenders that shoot the three.
Agree 100% and I think Thibs recognized this last game and played Bojan more. Think Bojan’s play deserves some blame on this too and not just Thibs because it hasn’t been clear that our net rating with him on the floor instead of Achiuwa has been better.
The 2022-23 Knicks had a good playoff run. They were a 5 seed that almost made the ECF, I’m still not sure why some people are so mad at Thibs for that. But I also don’t understand why a significant portion of this board is so angry all the time that we’re having a good season again.
“I do find the hijacking of threads to be exhausting, and it’s one reason I often stay away from the blog – because the voices I like to hear from end up getting drowned. If there was a mute button, I would use it, but in the absence, I’d rather not to have to deal with the likes of E or Boogie Down ever.”
I don’t post that much, and for the most part take entire weekends off from posting at all. But if you want me to post a lot more so that you can see the difference between what I am actually doing now and what you are insinuating that I’m doing, I’d be more than happy to do that.
“…….the voices I like to hear…….” This is an open forum. You don’t get to pick and choose for yourself who posts to it. And as E already said, if it’s a “voice you don’t like to hear,” then please feel free to click on through.
I don’t know how Thibs is responsible for the Knicks hitting 29% of their 3PAs in the playoffs last year. If they had hit 37% of their 3PAs, their offensive rating would be about 8 points higher and we would not be having this discussion.
I’d say we argue a lot about arguing…
I’ll just say – I really really really wanna see the knicks beat the hawks tonight…
wishing on a win led by deuce, josh and bogey, with donte backing them up…
second wish – to see precious outplay jalen johnson this game…
fiesty fiesty there doogie…
Feisty. LOL 🙂
Because in 2012 the Chicago Bulls struggled to score after Derrick Rose blew out his knee.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
🙂 🙂 🙂
good to hear you’ve focused on your health E…better than just good, excellemente senor…
I get stuck sometimes doing right with health stuff…if it’s okay to know:
– how long was your back thing a thing?
– what made you take action to get it resolved?
I’ve gotten the sugar stuff under control, lost weight doing so, now need to start pushing myself more physically…
The invitation to relitigate whether an association head coach bears responsibility for his offense’s three point field goal percentage is a quintessential example of why things appear to be “hijacked” around here.
oh shit, I thought that possibly looked off…I can’t even blame that one on auto-correct…
sadly fiesty looked good to me initially, it was close to Fiesta…fiesty, fiesta, kind of all the same…
WTF are we arguing about, almost every single freaking team in the playoffs see their offensive rating decline because scoring overall in the playoffs usually always declines.
The last time I remember a Knicks team offensively improve in the playoffs was in the 3 game sweep of Charlotte in 1997. I remember watching that series thinking, in a positive way, what the hell has happened to the Knicks.
I don’t agree with E on very much regarding the Knicks, but he’s mostly polite despite his indefatigable posting habits. And I don’t think we should be in the business of hurling (too many—just enough to make it fun) insults or telling people to leave. It’s simple to not relitigate—by not relitigating. The main problem with this strategy is that half of KB are lawyers. We should just try to converse on the merits, ensure comity, and if the spade turns, it turns.
Unless someone is getting told to drink bleach; in that case: fire away!
E said the sky is blue again and y’all can’t stand it.
It’s so sweet how much Hubert cares about defending E.
I’m not even slightly defending E.
I am, though, pointing out that almost half the thread is people fighting with him over something pretty obvious.
Brunson is out tonight, let’s focus now on finding a way to win tonight by any means necessary! Which probably means 48 mins for Deuce and Josh Hart.
Brunson had an MRI and it was clean, so that’s good.
Yall are not saying the sky is blue. Y’all are saying its Tom Thibodeau’s fault the sky is blue, and anyone who wants to look into that is stupid. Again, and you are saying this while there is a bunch of other interesting shit happening with the Knicks.
This thread reminds me of a funny video / fashion show / music video I watched a long time ago. (Kenzo Fall Winter 2017)
Clown 1: “Please come with me, the whole class is waiting for you and I don’t want the day to be ruined doing nothing.”
Clown 2: “I hate wasting time.”
Clown 1: “I hate waiting.”
Clown 2: “I hate waiting.”
Clown 1: “Waiting and me? No.”
Clown 2: “Oh, I really hate waiting.”
Clown 1: “If I never have to wait another day in my whole life… hmmmm.”
Clown 2: “You took the words right out of my mouth.”
Clown 1: “And the words you said was you didn’t like to wait.”
Clown 2: “Let me tell you something. What I do not like more than anything in this world is waiting.”
Clown 1: “I agree. It’s the worst.”
Clown 2: “The worst.”
Clown 1: “Not a fan of waiting.”
But then you start talking points per game. If you get a one point advantage through your rebounding for every ten shots isn’t that about a ten point advantage for a whole game?
no unless for some reason you wanted to compare them to a team that shot zero threes for an entire game (and even then they only miss 26 threes a game so it would be nowhere near 10 points). the ten was shots was to illustrate how small an issue this is. as i mentioned, the celtics shoot around 42 threes a game, which is only 7 more than average, so adjusting for 10 extra shots would actually be generous. in fact in our world above the celts are shooting 7 fewer 3pa (average team) and making 300bp less, they only have 3 fewer misses while adding 3 missed 3s. it ain’t about the rebounds.
hi geo. if you’re feeling bold in retirement but getting bored of aztec cultural appropriation try these:
https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/biggestideas/videos/
Fuck that it wasn’t my stupid argument. I came here to talk about Josh Hart pulling Mitchell’s chain and the playoff picture. I didn’t join this bitch until I couldn’t believe you were still fighting about it six hours later.
Great news and post of the day 😀
I finally agree with E. Let’s ignore E.
But that means everyone. If I skip over E and read someone else’s heated argument with one of E’s posts, well there we are again.
He’s a provocateur. He posts to provoke. Don’t let him.
(I know, there’s another word for it. But ‘provocateur’ doesn’t get used enough.)
thank you so much milo, I’ll make sure to bookmark…
I know the reports were good and the nerve explanation made sense but it’s still a big relief to hear the MRI was clean