Knicks Morning News (2024.01.19)

The usual nonsense on this morning bogging down interesting conversation. The archives will show I didn’t want Thibs to be hired and I think he has serious flaws, but the term “boogeyman” doesn’t go far enough in describing the rent he occupies in, ahem, some peoples’ minds. Just a ridiculous amount of vile spewed towards a guy it’s impossible to argue hasn’t done a good job here.

Also, if you’re pouring dirt on a trade we’re 8-2 with the 2nd best net rating in the league since making, that’s weird behavior. That obviously doesn’t mean the trade can’t be critiqued, the issues it created/exacerbated discussed, etc. But being literally (not sorry Doogie) fatalistic about it at this point, I mean, just very bizarre.

…anyway, this DJM Twitter stuff seems like nonsense and I would advise reacting to it, or more accurately, not reacting to it, accordingly.

I don’t think there’s a whole lot to say on the minutes issue besides the current situation is totally untenable and we very obviously need bench reinforcements. Thibs probably could’ve shaved off a few minutes here and there but if you wanted the totals to be substantively different, we’d almost certainly be looking at a few more losses. Maybe that’d be worth it, but I don’t think that’s an obvious call.

It’s worth pointing out that the front office’s relatively cavalier attitude towards draft picks is partially responsible for the current situation. In any event, it’s fixable and all indications are they intend on fixing it.

I truly believe that Evan Fournier would be stuck on benches of many NCAA squads… He is lucky to be around the league…

This is simple. If someone thinks Tom Thibodeau is ruining Evan Fournier, they’ll predict that Fournier will play well when he eventually is on another team.

Evan Fournier was of course third in total minutes played and within striking distance of first in his first season under Tom Thibodeau. The next season he sucked and was benched accordingly.

Trying to make this some kind of Tom Thibodeau specific issue is thus not easy, but alas that will not stop the most dedicated among us.

I must admit, the last player Tom Thibodeau ruined, Cam Reddish, is truly excelling under a different coach. So maybe Fournier will too.

Oof, c’mon Fred.

If the central Thibs grievance is that Leon Rose didn’t do a Hinkie/OKC style rebuild when he took over…I mean, that is just not remotely interesting commentary.

For one, Tom Thibodeau is not Leon Rose, but more importantly harping on it every god damn day impedes discussion of the 2023-2024 Knicks, who constitute a good team with the ability to get better, as much as this fact, bizarrely, upsets some Knicks fans.

If you think Leon Rose has erred, as I do in many contexts and have said as much, just talk about the errors without demonstrating the symptoms of Thibs Derangement Syndrome. My understanding is it’s not healthy to attribute any number of unrelated grievances to a singular person and/or force.

Immanuel Quickley’s minutes are up 7.4 per game since he left.

He is on a different roster!

And why did four different teams see fit to use Isaiah Hartenstein at a clip of nearly 20% USG but he is at 10 as a Knick and was a pathetic 7.6 last night?

Hartenstein had exactly one season with even 600 minutes before coming to the Knicks. Do you really want to credit the Rockets with giving him a bunch of usage in…229 minutes?

Now, it is true that his usage has gone down significantly with the Knicks compared to that one Clippers season, and I think whether it should be higher is a perfectly open question.

Thing is, with Thibs’ deployment of him Hartenstein has managed to have the 31st ranked EPM in the whole god damn NBA, which is even higher than it was in that Clippers season. Hartenstein also has a personal offensive rating of 132 this season, good for 11th in the NBA. That all seems like a solid prima facie case that said deployment is sensible.

The other four years were down 2.5, down 11.7, down 3.1, down 1.

I was referring to specific series as I made clear yesterday, due to factors such as “losing the league MVP to injury.”

But I know, the concept of statistical noise is just apologia for The Bad Man, whose offenses inevitably collapse in the playoffs. This is why you’re going to nail your prediction for the Knicks’ offensive playoff performance this year. Looking forward to it!

The funny thing is I think there’s a strong argument our offense last year was susceptible to a playoff drop off due to a lack of high-level shotmaking.

Where you lose me is where you suggest this has something to do with the coach as opposed to the roster. I mean, this argument seems easy to turn on its head–was it not some kind of coaching masterclass to coax the 3rd best regular season offense out of a roster that couldn’t shoot the ball?

If you want to argue this is an issue unique to Thibs, you have to say what he should’ve done differently with this roster. E squares this circle with conspiracy theories about Thibs’ level of control over the roster. Needless to say, I don’t find the conspiracy theory all that convincing. There are well documented instances of Thibs and members of the front offices being at each others’ throats, and I happen to think Yaron Weitzman et al. have better sources than E.

I think there is validity to his argument that the coach intentionally eschews shot-makers for players who provide physicality

We also went down against the Heat with Jalen Brunson and four non-shooters on the floor.

The best example of a shotmaker Thibs is neglecting is Evan Fournier, who Thibs played Thibs-level minutes until he ceased to be a shotmaker. I’ve already outlined why I’m not convinced by this, but I suppose it’s…something. I even entertained the idea that we might want to dust off Fournier during the Heat series!

But I mean, this is really kind of a stretch. It’s not like we were getting blown out and in “throw shit at the wall” mode, these were very tight games where all minutes counted. I’m just not going to bludgeon Thibs for not trusting the guy who 1) sucked that season and 2) hadn’t played real minutes in months by that point in that situation. YMMV.

This is a coach who had a rejuvenated Derrick Rose, Alec Burks, and Immanuel Quickley on his roster, and he opted to start Elfriid Payton.

Payton got thirteen (13) total minutes in the 2021 playoff series against the Hawks. Rose was 2nd on the team in minutes that series, just 5 behind Randle.

Had he not been so stubborn, it is very likely in my opinion (and the opinion of others) that Leon could have gotten OG with picks instead of IQ and we wouldn’t be in this mess.

This is entirely speculative and I don’t agree. Why would we have been able to not include Quickley in that trade if Quickley played more for us? Wouldn’t that theoretically have increased Quickley’s value, and made it even more likely Toronto held out for him?

I mean, if this is just a roundabout way of critiquing the trade, I also don’t agree. I’ve said my piece on it (tl;dr painful and risky but necessary and improved the roster in the short and long term) and the early returns, which are still quite early to be clear, leave me a little more confident in said piece than I was originally.