[ESPN] – Sun, 07 Jan 2024 22:47:00 GMT
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[New York Post] – Mon, 08 Jan 2024 00:38:00 GMT
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[New York Post] – Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:06:00 GMT
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120 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.01.08)”
Great Katz article on how Julius has refashioned his game this season to emphasize getting closer to the basket by any means necessary, sacrificing his three point shot volume but becoming vastly more efficient overall:
https://theathletic.com/5185383/2024/01/08/knicks-julius-randle-all-star-status/
So was yesterday Toronto’s moxie game?
We know very well that RJ is going to have those games, or even stretches of games. But I will believe he has permanently leveled up when I see it. I see a lot of frustrated, “If only he could do this all the time” comments in the future of Raptors fandom.
It wasn’t the best game in RJ’s career.
But it was the best game in RJ’s career where his team won… 🙂
He deceived us many times, now he’s in the best position to succeed.
I like the guy, even if he made me mad for years, and I wish him the best.
Fred Katz is a fantastic beat writer. But I wouldn’t have written one part of that article — focusing on how Randle is initiating the PNR as the handler at easily career-high rates — without caveating that it hasn’t amounted to anything. the knicks are not particularly efficient on plays when randle initiates the pnr, and they are particularly inefficient on the small numbers of plays where he actually uses the PNR to finish (2.5 possessions per game, a very low 0.80 points per possession). his tov% at 21-22% running pnr is very high. i’m not sure bc i don’t have second spectrum in front of me atm, but i think randle only has like 5 assists off the pnr to mitch+ihart combined all year. still, it’s a bit of a nitpick because it was kind of secondary point to his piece. randle getting closer to the rim has really mattered, especially given that the 3 hasn’t fallen.
Former Warriors GM Bob Myers has been hired by…
The Washington Commanders. :-O
i watched a lot of that toronto game and RJ was truly awesome in it. steph was something like 2-14 and honestly that probably flatters his game. making a mental note of it so i can pull up the video when my kid is distressed about shitting the bed in something he’s normally good at one day.
The Suns are now 9th in the West. I’ll keep watching them closely. If they fall off the playoffs, or even lose at the play-in, you could see KD being his annoying self and making the whole thing blow up. Booker, in my mind, is the easiest superstar fit amongst those who could be potentially available…
When we got rid of Cam I knew to expect a barrage of posts every time he had a good game, and likewise when the draft came as to the merits of having Hart v our pick. Completely fair and healthy debates.
But in this case I am going to hate many of the posts about RJ and IQ having good games…because I actually want them to succeed and be more productive than they ever were here. I root for the laundry and in the case of our draft picks, root for them wearing other laundry (other than green). I will never have seller’s remorse. All I care about is what the Knicks do with OG going forward.
RJ is like an ex-girlfriend who you break up with bc she made you miserable. I truly wish her well, but I’m not about to start stalking their instagram or anything bc I don’t care. As long as OG makes me happy, RJ can do whatever he wants.
I do think it’s blindingly obvious, though, that RJ was an asset in that trade. We didn’t give up that Detroit pick just to dump his salary. Toronto actually wants him.
Thus giving away that pick remains the one thing that annoys me about that trade which I otherwise love. It was a pre-punt!
Speaking of football… nice catch by big blue al yesterday pointing out that the giants could only drop one spot with the win… not much difference between 5th & 6th.
At 6 there are some QBs that teams will want to reach for and some LTs we don’t need. I’d like to see the Giants trade out of that pick and just load up on as much talent as possible. We’re still bereft from the Gettelman years
Hubs, how can you say that when we’ve literally spent the entirety of RJ’s Knicks career bemoaning how awful he’s been? He was/is not an asset that any team wanted.
Now you can argue that Toronto would tolerate him bc of the Canada connection but that is different than them wanting him.
And sure IQ is a great consolation for taking on RJ but they’re gonna have to pay him big this off season.
Next season Toronto will be locked in to RJ and IQ for like 50 million a year. That’s a lot of money for two guys – one of whom is good but is not proven as a starter and the other is maddeningly inconsistent and inefficient.
Actually, in this analogy, the Knicks were RJ’s girlfriend, thinking (for a while) they could “fix him.” Now they/we are happy to pass him on to his new Canadian girlfriend, and we sincerely hope she has more luck.
If we’re using the ex girlfriend analogy, I’d say RJ is like that ex where everything seems great on paper. She’s attractive, comes from a good family, has a good head on her shoulders and is nice but for whatever reason the chemistry just never clicks. You stick it out bc you think she should be the one but then you eventually realize she isn’t.
Swift, again, I think it is blindingly obvious that Toronto actually wanted RJ Barrett, but if you want proof I will submit the fact that he’s starting and playing 36mpg as Exhibit A.
Oh it’s blindingly obvious! I guess I’m just an idiot then!
He also started for us and we traded him. What’s your point?
His contract sucks and he’s one of the least efficient starters in the league.
They wanted him but not without us giving them IQ and a pick. Toronto sucks so they’re cool starting him cause he probably helps sell tickets. That doesn’t mean they would have taken him without that pick.
This is literally untrue. We literally spent the first few weeks of this season talking about how great he looked. We literally praised him when he was effective in the Cleveland series. We literally loved him during his sophomore campaign.
RJ has always had stretches of good play. Of course he always settles into his maddening self, but he has had more than enough flashes to justify another team thinking he’d be a good change of scenery candidate.
We didn’t have to use RJ to get this trade done. Evan’s expiring would have fit the bill.
They’re starting him for the same reason we did. They’re stuck with him and his contract so they might as well start him to see if he can get better.
Hubs, come on man. Even during those nice stretches people talked about the other shoe dropping which it always did. All of those stretches with the exception of his sophomore year were super short. And his sophomore year it was more about him improving relative to his absolutely horrible rookie campaign.
Please don’t tell me you’re gonna be the pining over RJ dude.
Yeah and then we wouldn’t have Evan’s contract to use in another deal and the one team that would tolerate him we’d have done a trade with.
What are you upset about again? RJ having a good game?
I literally declared I am not going to pine over RJ.
I simply made a very, very benign comment that I think Toronto actually wanted him. A comment that, for some reason, you could not abide.
Abide, bro. Abide.
You’ve been the start of every disagreement around here lately. It’s like you’re sitting at the keyboard just waiting for me or dj to say something that you can pounce on. Even when we say something totally non controversial, you twist it into something you can get angry about.
Go for a walk. Smoke weed with Geo. If you’re this wound up now, you’re going to lose your mind when E comes back.
It’s a blog where we talk about the knicks. You stated something I disagree with. So I responded to it.
Yes, it’s an argument. That is what we do on this blog. We argue about the knicks. You said we could have done the trade without including the second round pick. I responded stating that I disagree with that statement.
My response wasn’t harsh. I didn’t call you an idiot or anything like that. I simply disagreed with what you said.
Is this a problem?
Are we entering some weird new era where we can’t actually have disagreements bc of a few interblog spats? If someone posts something I disagree with, I’m going to say that and post why I think they’re wrong.
Maaaaaan…this OG trade has turned me into a serial flip-flopper lol.
I am now off a Murray trade in favor of a Brogdon trade. He just fits this team like a glove. He’s (un)healthy enough to not hurt Deuce’s opportunity, and the starting 5 is jelling very well. I guess the question would be if we throw Flynn at Portland as opposed to Grimes. Given Brogdon’s availability issues, I’d rather throw in Flynn and a pick. Hopefully this will be my last flip flop because I’m starting to give myself motion sickness LOL
Exhibit B) The Knicks weren’t stuck with RJ’s contract. They gave it to him totally unforced.
Exhibit C) The knicks weren’t stuck with having to play him starters minutes. They chose to.
Exhibit D) rarely, in the history of KB, has a professional general manager cared what the hive mind here thinks or says. Most often they think and do the exact opposite.
Devin Booker is a superstar?
I go back and forth about Dejonte too.
Even beyond Dejonte I’m worried about a big move that brings in a player where our team play has to totally change again. The vibes are really good right now and we seem to be collectively playing better than the parts. So I worry that any move, especially Dejonte, would disrupt that.
I’m less worried about a Brogdon or back up C move disrupting that vibe.
But I also recognize that the team might be playing above it’s head right now and this may also be our last chance to add a big piece.
I just don’t know if Dejonte is that piece or not. He’s a really weird player to get a handle on right now because of how his Atlanta stint has played out.
We should never have signed Fournier or RJ to the deals they have. We could have OG and IQ right now. But it’s not an easy business, despite the fact I have basically never been wrong in nearly 20 years of making internet predictions in the hallowed halls of Knickerblogger.
Whoever has an optimistic prediction about RJ in Canada, well, I will fade it.
Total speculation, but I would note that the Raptors had traded all their 2024 picks (though their 1st goes back to them as it is top 6 protected) so perhaps the 2nd we gave up may be more important to them than the typical “throw in a 2nd” especially if they go full tank mode. From what I have read on their blogs, the consensus seems to be that this trade does not make them better or worse, Siakam is out the door, and accumulating draft capital is in the cards.
Not to nitpick but RJ is averaging 31.5 mins per game not 36. He played 36 last night but had played 29, 33 and 27 mins his first 3 games.
IQ is averaging 31 mins per game.
Macri and Jeremy Cohen talked a lot about Brogdon on today’s pod. They amusingly concurred with your point about how Brodgon’s own injury issues mean they can go to Deuce and/or Grimes and say, “Don’t worry; you’ll still get plenty of minutes, because he’s going to miss time.” And Jeremy predicted the Knicks could get it done by doing a pair of separate but related transactions (like we did with the Toronto trade):
1)Fournier and the protected Bucks pick for Brogdon; and
2)Malachi Flynn for either a protected second or the rights to a draft-and-stash player the Blazers don’t plan to bring over.
I’d do that. We’d still have all our own picks, plus the Dallas pick, the Detroit pick (which is probably going to convey at some point), and the Washington pick (much less likely to convey). We could use Brogdon as salary filler, Hart and DDV would be trade eligible in the summer (though I’d hate to lose either), and we also have Grimes, Deuce, and the rights to Rokas to put into a package.
The episode is excellent in general, but my reaction to Jeremy’s proposal was in the vein of “if I would happily do it, why would they?”
In other words, I think Portland will have stronger offers for Brogdon. With every contender giving them a call I have to think they can extract more than a pick that projects to be in the 20s.
Re: RJ, no problem whatsoever with him being as good as he wants against everyone but the Knicks. In my experience his next game will be a 4 for 13, but hey, good on him if he makes Star J happen in Canada.
I will admit it is a little funny Cam is so terrible though given the strength of his hive.
Since it was (facetiously) mentioned as an every day activity, today’s Cam report:
20 minutes, 2-6 (but 2-3 from three!) for 7 pts, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, and 5 turnovers (!). A lovely -8.
It is really beyond my understanding why he’s starting for LA.
I’m of the mind that we should really first focus on back up C. I’d hold off on Brogdon until right before the trade deadline to see what Grimes and McBride can do. The last 2 games were promising. More than the scoring, last game the 5 assists for McBride made me very happy.
And this is where hopefully Leon’s connections can give him an idea of what veterans might get waived that we could pick up off the waiver wire. I feel like every season there’s at least one that is pretty good.
But back up C – I feel like we kind of need that right now.
https://twitter.com/CynicalNYK/status/1744379291750519131
Looks like the Knicks media employers are Anti Mitchell
In the face of pressure i don’t think mcbride will be able to run an offense
Agreed Alan and TNFH..agreed.
Funny enough that I just turned on that KFS episode after I posted the Brogdon comment lol
The Lakers are a good example of what happens if you have solid chrome and leather but your nuts and bolts are all stripped and rusted out.
That’s my concern. Even when he’s shooting well, I don’t trust the handle or the ability to penetrate.
Unless Embiid somehow asks out, not sure who is a better potentially available player and a superior fit than Booker at this point. I’d prefer him than either KAT or Mitchell (and even KAT is not going to be available). There’s an argument that the Knicks should not trade for a guy like him, but given what the FO has been preparing to do, it seems likely that a trade for someone will happen soon.
I’ve used having two full-time 4+ BPM players as a shorthand of the bare minimum amount of chrome and leather a team needs to contend…will the Lakers be the first team to pass that with flying colors, but be under .500?
Last year, Dallas had Doncic for the full season and Irving for a while …
Great Katz article as always, but some of it triggered a “why wasn’t this thought of 3 years ago” kind of reaction. Like – getting Julius downhill on the move and dragging the big out of the paint with a pick seems… obvious? Like you didn’t need to have surgery and several weeks of being non-weight-bearing to have that kind of epiphany (not to mention – what in the world were Thibs and co doing for the last 3 years if they weren’t working on this)?
Also – regarding the always imminent “star trade” — I am assuming that Julius is going to have to go out in this trade, right? Because who is the “star” that fits IN ADDITION to Brunson and Julius? Even Embiid makes little sense in addition to Brunson and Julius (not that I wouldn’t take him) – the marginal benefit just doesn’t seem that big to justify the treasure that would go out in a trade like that. And I am pretty sure Brunson is not going anywhere – only Morey or Ainge are heartless enough to trade away their own godson.
I really DO like the starting lineup construction on offense right now – 2 high-usage on-ball scorers (Brunson/Julius), 2 excellent spot-up threats (OG/DDV), and yes, I do think Hartenstein makes a lot more sense with the starters than Mitch does in that he is a ball-mover / facilitating big a la Draymond, Bam, and even Jokic (obviously a lot less talented than Jokic especially as a scorer, but the general outline is there).
Adding another high-usage scorer to this lineup, presumably at the expense of DDV, doesn’t make a ton of sense to me unless it’s someone who is truly comfortable being off-ball – and if he’s going to be off-ball, how much more can he provide than the combo of DDV+Grimes (currently shooting collectively 41.6% on ~350 3PA or ~10 3PA/game)?
Maybe Brogdon really is the move – a guy used to being a 6th man, big enough and a good enough shooter to play with Brunson in Thibs’s East is Big Brain, and probably won’t be complaining about minutes/usage. And then we use all the picks to round out the roster with low-cost guys so we can stay under aprons and maintain flexibility.
Two weeks ago no one here thought getting OG and dumping RJ was possible. Leon & Rosas pulled it off.
Did Leon and Rosas know/think that iHart would thrive and ball out playing with OG? Did they know/think that Grimes and Deuce can eficiently pick up most of IQs usage with 2nd team?
All things point that they did. (eg, extension, Thibs saying that deuce is a scorer and puts up 40 when he plays in Westechester).
Are Leon and Rosas a top 5 elite NBA front offices?
I’ll preface this first by saying I’m in complete agreement (and in love) with Monica McNutt in that clip above. I want to roll with these guys. A backup C or PG, sure, if we don’t lose anything valuable. Otherwise, let’s see what happens.
Having said that, Devin Booker ALMOST makes sense as a next move. He’s basically a hyper all-star version of Grimes and DDV. Three 25 pt studs with OG and the Mitch/iHart defense…
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=corinthian+leather&mid=E9D987A3DE19ADF6A870E9D987A3DE19ADF6A870&FORM=VIRE
Edit: I’m in love with Monica full stop. Not just in that clip…
This is where I’m at. You don’t need a “Big Three.” This idea has been kind of disproven many times but bc of The Heatles, it still exists as some truth in many people’s minds.
What you really need is a BIG 2 and then a bunch of great role players and maybe one of those role players is the 3rd guy but he doesn’t necessarily need to be a “star.”
A lot of the recent big threes have flamed out or are flaming out.
now you can definitely argue that Brundle isn’t big enough of a big two to get it done. But I think this is debatable. A lot of the PG’s that rank ahead of Brunson in like all star voting, for example, aren’t better than him. They just have more name clout right now. And Randle has been a two time all NBA in the last 3 seasons. If their names weren’t Brunson and Randle and they weren’t playing for The Knicks (yes, that bias still exists in the sports punditry), they’d absolutely be considered top level stars.
And even if they aren’t the tippy top of the top level stars, if we’re supporting them with a truly deep and diverse team with no real weaknesses, then I believe they can get it done. Are we shoe ins? Of course not. But so many sure things in recent seasons haven’t gotten it done. Who the hell knows for real?
So yes, shore up back up PG with Brogdon. Get a really good back up Center. Make a few more Josh Hart/OG level moves to upgrade the roster 1 through 10 and then use the rest of our picks to DRAFT players to replenish the team when guys inevitably leave.
Do that and we’ll be a top 3 team in the east for the next few seasons. That’s pretty damn good.
I agree with her, but the backcourt size/defense issue was even worse when the Knicks were contemplating the trade for Mitchell. Only a few people outside of here were warning about that strongly. Not that it’s ideal now either, but at least they’ve added some size and defensive prowess with OG since then. He can take on the best player. I had to up my dosage of Amlodipine Besylate just to get through that period without a stroke.
The more high usage efficient offensive players you have the better.
However, my argument has always been that it makes little sense to focus on scoring past a solid 1st, 2nd and 3rd option because there’s only so many possessions and beyond a certain point you start getting diminishing returns as you add more high usage scoring. So IMO, it’s better to focus and pay for players with other elite attributes like rebounding, defense, play making, shooting 3s etc…
The reason there’s still so much talk about trading for another star is because Brunson and Randle would be highly anomalous as the the best players on a legitimate contender.
I’m not ragging on them–I’m an unapologetic Brunson fanboy and have come 180 degrees on Randle, I love having him on the team–it’s just objectively true when you look where they stand relative to their peers by any measure.
I think someone like Booker or Mitchell who could play on or off the ball would fit very nicely within the current starting lineup. Same goes for unrealistic options I’m only naming as an example of the kind of player we should be looking to add like Kawhi, Paul George, and Anthony Davis.
What the OG trade did was give us a lot more positional flexibility in terms of the player we can add. He’s so versatile and fits like a glove in any NBA lineup, contra RJ Barrett. We still do need to increase our total talent output to compete with the best, though, and fine tuning the 8-10th spots in the rotation isn’t gonna bridge the gap.
This existed prior to the Heatles.
The Spurs were a good example: Parker/Ginobli/Duncan and a bevy of talented roleplayers.
If you could have 3 stars and good role players instead of 2 stars and good roleplayers, wouldn’t you opt for 3 stars? This is why we’re talking about it.
This is a quibble but I would argue taht was a big two with a supped up role player. Ginobli being a 6th man to me makes him a role player.
These terms can sound insulting….Ginobli is a HOF player!
But I’m talking more about 3 starters who are all stars every year/top 10 to 15 players where you’re spending all of your cap on those dudes.
What if we already have that third star? I think it could be iHart, if Thibs unlocks his passing skills. He’s capable of that Draymond Green role.
Then let’s get Brogdon or someone else and bring him off the bench…
A lot of those teams don’t win because of flawed rosters outside those 3 or because several of the 3 are injury prone.
We have the luxury of adding a 3rd star to 2 pretty damn healthy stars without gutting our roster.
We have a month to figure this out but so far our best players have needed big minutes and, except for one game, our reserves have been losing to our opponents’ reserves.
Then why not 4 stars?
We’ll have to wait until after this off season when we lose in the finals and then Kevin Durant decides to join us.
The best big 3s were Pierce, Garnett, Allan and Curry, Klay, Draymond.
There was a formula to both:
– ball dominant guard
– all time great shooter
– DPOY
It rarely works with three guys who need the ball bc someone’s talent gets diminished.
The current Celtics team is perhaps a model to emulate– they don’t have the big BPM whale like Embiid or Doncic or Jokic anchoring the team, but they do have a whole roster full of guys who can really play, anchored by a handful of 4-5 BPM types. They may not win a chip with this roster but obviously they are a legitimate contender.
A binary big 2/big 3 distinction is arbitrary and misses the point. The name of the game is stuffing as much production under the salary cap as possible, accounting for basic fit issues.
History says there’s more than one way to skin that cat. Big 2, big 3, whatever.
At this very moment, no one denies the Knicks have not stuffed as much production under the salary cap as the handful of contenders. We’ve got to get some more, and given our roster and asset situation a trade for a star looks like our best chance of closing the gap.
Whether such a trade would bring us to a big 1 or a big 2 or a big 3 or a big 4 is way less important than whether it would in fact close that production gap.
How dare you slander Manu like that?
Second best player on four championship teams and the best player on a gold medal basketball team.
My feathers are ruffled!!!!!
I think this mostly gets it.
Every team can get better and we should be figuring out how to get better, that’s why we’re talking about adding in other players.
These teams combined for 2 championships prior to GS bringing in KD. They won a 2nd after KD but needed Poole to look like a burgeoning star with a ~25% usage and .600 TS%.
It’s weird because on paper they seem like perfect fits.
You say that like it’s a bad thing!
The fit issue is the question, though. I think Frank is right that the best way to accommodate a star here is to upgrade Randle, not to stuff someone between him & Brunson.
For example, Brunson, DDV, OG, Giannis, and iHart is better than Brunson, Mitchell, OG, Randle, and iHart
The point is you need a high level of scoring, defense, playmaking, rebounding and of course a good enough bench to contend.
You can get there any way you want, but typically to get enough scoring you need a #1, #2 and 3# option where #1 and #2 are all stars and the #3 option is pretty darn close to all star. The #3 may only average 12-15 points but should be capable of more if #1 is not on court or hurt.
To get away with just a #1 and #2 and a very distant #3, you need combinations like Shaq and Kobe, Jordan and Pippen and other elite combinations like that. I’d say James and Davis are pretty close even at James’ age, but the rest of the team is probably not up to snuff in other areas.
IMO, the Knicks have 2 All-Star caliber scorers, but they are not near elite enough scorers to contend. IMO they need that very solid other option. That’s especially true because Randle has been somewhat volatile and is less proven against playoff defense and playoff pressure.
It would be nice if OG could step into that underutilized #3 role and give us 20+ efficient points on any night if we need it because he’s been vocal about wanting it, but I don’t think he’s at that level, at least yet. Obviously, neither is Grimes or DDV. Quickley was, but that’s spilled milk at this point and opened up other questions. And of course, if Randle spontaneously combusts somewhere during the season or in the playoffs, then we are further away than we think.
Even though he’s a theoretical fit, I don’t see Leon going for Brogdon because it feels like he hasn’t wanted to add any players over 30 since the Fournier/Kemba debacle…
Of course, this is just a feeling I have. But it would be a sensible way to proceed.
I’m not sure if this was discussed, but the fact that they dropped Taj may be signaling they already have another deal lined up and it’s going to bring back more than one player.
Taj’s deal became guaranteed if we didn’t cut him. I’m guessing Brock Aller didn’t want to waste monetary flexibility on a 3rd or 4th string C with Sims back and Achiuwa in the fold.
We’re still hard capped this year and each dollar wasted can stop us from completing a trade or signing a player later.
So I don’t think we should read too much into the move, it just makes cap sense on its own.
Fact Check: Kawhi was better than Manu on one of those teams.
Lol, it is a good thing!
I think it shows how difficult it is to win even when you seemingly have the perfect pieces.
The Kawhi Spurs team that smacked down the Heat in the Finals is historically underrated.
Tony Parker was a superstar?
He never led the league in anything, was never a serious MVP contender, and his career VORP was lower than Stephon Marbury’s. If he’d played in New York during that time, he’d have had a fine but unextraordinary career.
[edited to add: oh, the 3 stars were Duncan, Manu, and Leonard? Okay, I accept that. But before Leonard took command of things, the Spurs were a 2 star model, not a 3 star model, correct?]
Spot on. This next move is the hardest to make. Suns and Nets blew it by adding Harden and Beal. Boston did the same when they added Kyrie. Lakers bombed it with Dwight and Nash/Pringles.
I think the prudent move may be a verison of the GS model, – get an Iguodala type (~OG), give them ~2 yrs and hope they grow into stars together. Unless its a no braner dirt cheap type trade…hope Leon/Rosas sit tight and draft two first round players this summer.
Tony Parker was a ROY, 6X All-Star, 4X all-NBA, and Finals MVP. He was also top-10 in the MVP voting 4 times and top-15 3 other times. He wasn’t a superstar in the “tentpole” sense, but he was certainly a bonafide star that could be counted in a Big 3 or Big 4 or Big 5.
“If he’d played in New York during that time, he’d have had a fine but unextraordinary career.”
If he played in New York during that time he’d be the second best PG in Knicks history.
These things aren’t really mutually exclusive. Even our greatest PG ever, Clyde, was never a serious MVP candidate. Brunson is probably next best, and he ranks 8th in BPM among PGs right now.
It’s easy to forget that we are remarkably talent poor historically. Despite a much shorter history the Spurs have had many players better than anyone to play for us:
Robinson would be the best C in Knicks history
Duncan would be the best PF in Knicks history
Kawhi would be the best SF in Knicks history
Manu would be the best SG in Knicks history
Parker would be the 2nd best PG in Knicks history
Wemby will probably be better than any player in Knicks history
“Star” is a loose term, Donnie, but the Spurs to me were just a big 1 with an elite supporting cast. Like the Bulls. That wasn’t a big 3, that was Jordan’s team, even though the second best player was an all time great and a 3rd was HOF worthy, too.
The idea of a big 3, as I see it, is when 3 guys on a similar plane come together and rotate being the man.
(FWIW I don’t really see the Heatles as a big 3, either. There was an extremely clear hierarchy there. Wade was a sidekick, and Bosh was an overqualified 3rd wheel.)
Yeah, but those are all electoral accolades that come from playing with one of the best players ever. Duncan’s coattails were wide, as were Leonard’s as he came of age. Any above-average PG would have gotten consideration for those awards if they’d been in the right place at the right time.
If we got Mitchell to go with Randle and Brunson, for instance, that would be a big three since they’re all about equal.
It’s a suboptimal big 3, IMO.
Frankly, I have a really hard time thinking of the guy who forms a great big 3 with Brundle. I don’t think he exists.
You upgrade Randle, you upgrade DDV. Easier said than done, I know, but those are the moves that make us a contender. Not forming a big 3.
I agree, Hubert. The Warriors, too, prior to Durant joining, were a 1 super-nova championship model, too.
Randle, Mitch, and Grimes form the perfect matching salary for Kevin Durant, by the way.
Giannis, too.
Things to keep in mind for this summer.
Quentin’s hockey playing older brother being much taller than him is pretty funny
Yeah Tony was a very good player but he got some underserved individual accolades. If he’d spent his career on the Hornets he maybe makes an ASG or 2.
Willis Reed would be the best C in Spurs history
Clyde would be the best PG in Spurs history
Mike Breen would be the best play by play announcer in Spurs history
Clyde would be the best color commentator in Spurs history
Take that for data!
The Knicks have played 36 games and for 30 of them Randle is averaging 26/9/5 with a 60 TS%. Gonna give him a chance to keep that up before I say we need to upgrade on him, or even can.
Given that Giannis and the other very good players are not available, i was thinking exactly this – is it possible to upgrade from Randle?
I always hate saying this, but I think Hubie is right here.
Our team is not unlike that 18-19 Raps team before they made the Kawhi trade. DeRozan was very good that year and they had a strong, deep team. But they needed another star to even put them in the championship conversation… and even then they had to get a bit lucky.
But getting into that convo is the most a fan can ask for.
hali might be hurt, involuntary split
Yeah, looked like he hurt his hammy. he just slipped
Of course. I’m the head of “let this cake bake” for the rest of the season.
But I don’t think there is even a chance that by this summer Julius Randle will be as good as Giannis and Durant.
“Yeah, but those are all electoral accolades that come from playing with one of the best players ever. Duncan’s coattails were wide, as were Leonard’s as he came of age. Any above-average PG would have gotten consideration for those awards if they’d been in the right place at the right time.”
Sure let’s belittle players who received perennial accolades in their era from pretty much everyone in the hoops galaxy. The notion that Parker was just some above average non-star PG riding the coattails of Duncan, etc., must have been lost on Pop and Buford, who seemed just fine with the illusion…imagine how many chips they could have won with a better PG than Parker!
Maybe after all there’s a chance the Bucks implode and Giannis asks out.
That Hali injury looks terrible, he was carried all the way to the locker room by teammates.
Seems like Sexton is pricing himself out of the market…
The idea of trading Randle for Durant is…repellent. also, unwise.
Giannis is of course another story. That would be crazy cold-blooded, but obviously you’d have to do it if it were possible.
yes, come smoke with me Swifty…
so, now that that katt williams interview got me a little curious, i saw that he was also on mike tyson’s Hot Boxin’…
like the shannon sharpe thing where they drink cognac, mike puffs away, and snacks…dude looks like some old pitbull…
i don’t know though, if i was to guess, i’d probably say you’re not a weed smoker swifty, maybe nicotine though…you seem to me to be pretty sober and clear…
i mentioned it before, what i really love though – is your rage…it seems to be at a pretty consistently high level…my apologies if i got you wrong swifty…
one of my favorite games at work, was trying to guess the vices of those around me, not really that hard…
was thinking a while ago – i seem to average around a 5 (1 thru 10) on the being pissed off scale…doesn’t take a push for me to elevate…
funny, daughter did a re-launch today and needed a little extra help moving, poor thing had too endure me hulking around for a few hours…
i really really try to make it a point with those close to me that my rage ain’t personal against them – it’s just what’s in me…
it’s interesting, i usually get along well with other angry people…i guess kind of like sex/dope/gambling/food/violence fiends often just seem to know one another…
Bucks 46
Jazz 77
I know dame isn’t playing, but griffin is going to get fired I predict
Worse part is I played Jazz on the spread should have played them on moneyline +295
Awful call at the end of Celts-Pacers. Brown was clearly hit in the head and yet the refs overturned their initial foul call. Weird.
And now Pacers get the call at the end of the game. If you’re not gonna give the Brown foul, you can’t call that on Porzingis. Terrible refereeing deciding the game
Well the home fans had to see their star player carried out, so maybe the refs took pity on them…
SGA’s TS% is up to a mind boggling .643.
Still my guy for MVP
Ja getting season-ending surgery.
Memphis might be sellers now. Anyone on their roster worth looking at?
If the Knicks had OG and Marcus Smart, Hartenstein could be DPOY.
Desmond Bane would fit preeeetty nicely as the 2 guard.
(I know they are never trading him)
I was thinking about Smart. If his contract wasn’t so long, maybe, but he is looking kinda haggard…and after hating him for so long it would be tough to root for him…but objectively, not the worst idea.
Bad night for could have been Knicks PGs…
Smart is shooting worse than RJ this year. Hard pass for me.
You don’t get Smart for his shooting, you get Smart to see how much credit his other teammate’s can get for his own defensive impact. It’s a social experiment, like sport itself.
basketball is cool and all – but, holy cow, pretty entertaining college football playoff so far…
dang, i see the pacers won…they’re are starting to get on a roll…we’re one of a handful of teams that haven’t hand an overtime game yet…
we need to do better against better teams, hopefully now that we’re less hosed by the schedule that’ll happen…
Five teams are tied for the 4th seed now in the East. This season could still go either direction…
oh man, hali is hurt, says he went out in the 2nd quarter, and the pacers still won…
strained hamstring is a tough injury…got to be careful with those…
I guess our game Saturday at Memphis becomes sort of a trap game now…
“strained hamstring is a tough injury…got to be careful with those…”
From the replay, it sure looked like the bad kind, but he’s spindly, so who knows? I’ve rarely seen a guy get carried off like that for a grade 1 strain, and it wouldn’t shock me if it’s more involved than a strain.
the league needs hali, i enjoy watching him play…
The way they looked, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hali has torn it. Which could mean missing most of the season. Hope not, for what Geo said.
Suns defense is so bad
Might be able to put together a mitchell robinson package for booker
a less exciting grizzlies garage sale possibility is xavier tillman. he’s already been relegated behind biyombo and he’s rfa this summer with both adams and clarke coming back. he’s far from perfect, but i would take him over our current back-up 5s assuming the cost was marginal.
The biggest problem with our pair of stars is on the defensive end. Offensively, Brunson is as good as just about anyone and Randle can be very dominant when he is attacking and making quick decisions. The problem is most true superstars are also very good defensively and neither of ours are even close to average.
This means we have to build a team with 7 other players who are all somewhere between very good and elite defensively just to be a pretty good defensive team.
I don’t think it’s hopeless but it is why neither Brunson or Randle will ever be a top 20 NBA player and severely limits how we build our team.
With that said our next move, should be a trade with Brooklyn. Trade Fournier and a load of picks for either Bridges or, if that’s impossible, Johnson and move DDV to the bench and all of a sudden when Robinson comes back we are 10 deep with good size at the wing and lots of shooters.
Let’s not trade picks for rentals like Brogdon or Clarkson. Our bench is good enough for the rest of this year. Any trades should be to move DDV to the bench or upgrade Randle.
“hali might be hurt, involuntary split”
G-d, that just sounds awful. I hope he lives.