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[Posting and Toasting] — Tuesday, October 31, 2023 5:58:15 AM
76ers trade James Harden to the LA Clippers. How does it affect the Knicks? Posting and Toasting
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112 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.10.31)”
I guess the question is whether Morey can now re-route these draft assets to acquire an impact player right now — and, if so, who? Because Embiid is not going to be moved by his GM promising him lottery help in a season when Embiid will be… 34.
Yeah, I don’t know what the follow-up is for Philly. I guess you hope Maxey has a breakout season and you can steal someone at the deadline.
This Harden trade has me confused. I liked the idea of Harden on the Clips initially, but then I started thinking that he might not be a great fit there. I don’t know how you can make it work with 4 great players who all need the ball- even with Westbrook leading the 2nd unit.
Now, I REALLY don’t like the trade. While I love Mook in Philly, they now have too many tweener forwards that deserve playing time, and maybe 2 guards that should play. Maybe 3? On the other side, the Clips traded away ALL of their frontcourt depth for Harden. And if I’m Ty Lue, I’m certainly not gonna play either PG or Kawhi at the 4. It’s hard enough to keep them healthy as it is. Westbrook finally looks comfortable and happy again, and it shows in his play. I’m not sure how adding Harden keeps him that way. I also like how Bones has been playing so far. Both teams now likely have to make another move so things fit. I think the Clips need another forward for their rotation, and Philly needs a SG that can shoot. Can we interest them in a Fournier swap for one of Covington or Batum? That is if they haven’t given up on the Embiid window now that Harden’s gone. Not gonna lie though..Maxey looks GREAT so far this season, so maybe he is good enough to play Robin to Embiid’s Batman.
Again- confused. A little anxious to see what happens next too. I wonder if the latter trade convinces Leon to do a pull on press for Embiid..
This was a brilliant trade by Morey. Harden was a toxic asset for both the Nets and then the Sixers.
The Sixers paid for Harden:
Toxic asset Ben Simmons
Seth Curry
Andre Drummond
1 unprotected first round pick almost certain to convey in the 20’s, (wound up being #28)
1 top-8 protected pick
They now got back:
Robert Covington
Marcus Morris
Nic Batum
Kenyon Martin Jr.
1 unprotected pick in 2028 that could possibly be a lottery pick
1 unprotected pick in 2026 (likely not a lottery pick)
1 pick swap in 2029
2 seconds
All of the contracts the Sixers took back are expiring, and PJ Tucker had a bad value player option for next year. Covington is a rotation-level player, probably as good if not better than Tucker.
If anything, Morey at least broke even, and likely got a better return than what he sent out to BKN in 2022. This move may have saved his job.
I’m not sure the 76ers need to add an impact player. I’ve been having non buyers remorse for not having them in my future bets after watching the early games. It looks to me like Tyrese Maxey is ready to step into the role of #2 scoring option. If so, with Embiid, Maxey, and Harris, they have all the scoring they need. I don’t know who is going to stay or go, but this deal may add some veteran depth and give them some pick ammo to upgrade a position if something is not working out. I think they are squarely back into the contender picture. If I was Embiid I’d be pretty happy to move past all the toxicity and get ready to rock.
I have no idea what the Clippers are doing. They have Leonard, George, Harden, and Westbrook, but there’s only one basketball.
The Sixers have a massive amount of expirings on the roster. The need to max Maxey, but the cap flexibility they will have this offseason is pretty impressive.
What they don’t have is draft capital or valuable young players beyond Maxey. Melton is okay but he’s expiring. Reed is a scrub. So while they have the flexibility to add players, since free agency is pretty dead, how are they going to acquire them?
On paper it doesn’t seem like Morey has many avenues to build a contender beyond this year as things stand. So who knows? Embiid might still ask out after this year.
I’m not sure why Morey would want to change anything. I’d gladly go to battle with Embiid, improved Maxey, Harris, and some vets for a couple more years. If anyone gives me the opportunity to improve my short and/or long term position I’d go for it. I’d worry about the reboot later. I think he has a contender now, but I’ll qualify that by saying I have to be right that Maxey is ready to a solid #2. If I’m wrong about that, I’m wrong about everything.
It’s a good point they will have lots of cap space next summer. That may be part of the appeal of the trade to Philadelphia. They could go after someone like Quickley (uggh).
Quickley and Maxey reunion? Hmmm…
Looks like they’ll have around $60M depending on who they keep. Siakam, Hield, and Klay Thompson are UFAs.
Not much else, but they’re also probably a candidate to throw $30M+ at IQ.
“I’m not sure why Morey would want to change anything. I’d gladly go to battle with Embiid, improved Maxey, Harris, and some vets for a couple more years. If anyone gives me the opportunity to improve my short and/or long term position I’d go for it. I’d worry about the reboot later. I think he has a contender now, but I’ll qualify that by saying I have to be right that Maxey is ready to a solid #2. If I’m wrong about that, I’m wrong about everything.”
If the old vets they just acquired stay healthy and aren’t washed then maybe they can piece together a rotation to compete with the Celtics…but that’s a very big if.
I’m expecting the usual wear and tear on Embiid to take its toll at playoff time, and that goes double for guys like Covington, Mook and Batum. I just don’t see a finals appearance from this group.
the sixers are probably players whenever the bulls decide to blow it up which is why Morey was adamant about the picks…. Lavine + DeRozan I imagine will go for that pick package plus Harris and change…
lots of possibilities….
ESPN headline June 30,2024:
“Harden demands trade, calls Clippers GM Trent Redden a ‘lying dog’”
Siakam would be a good get for them, but will Ujiri just let him walk?
Hield is a shooter and nothing else. If Indiana doesn’t want to keep him, that pretty much says it all.
Klay would be a decent signing but I just don’t see it happening. I expect him to stay put.
If IQ plays well enough to get a $30M AAV offer, the Knicks will probably match or agree to a sign-and-trade.
I have a good friend who is a devout Clippers fan and season ticketholder, and he is absolutely despondent today. It’s not about the price LAC paid; he just HATES Harden’s game and doesn’t want to have to watch him.
The Clippers have two great pieces in Leonard and George. They’ve had some bad injury luck on top the expected injury issues. But they remind me a bit of previous Clippers teams where the main pieces for a championship are there, but the decision makers are not doing a good job of filling out the rest of the team. This team makes no sense to me. When you have that much talent you are going to win a lot of games, but imo they are not a contender.
On one hand, you have to give Morey credit under the circumstances. This doesn’t need much explanation–Harden was making his life about as difficult as possible and he still got some real assets and flexibility.
On the other, this is an entirely future oriented package in Embiid’s age-29 season. The Sixers’ roster is obviously worse than it was yesterday, so they have to make serious hay either at the deadline, or more precariously, in the offseason with an iffy UFA slate.
Looks like if they go all out on flexibility in the offseason, they can strip down to Embiid’s $51.4M, Tucker’s $11.5M (player option he’s certain to pick up, and Maxey’s $13M cap hold. It’s plenty, but it’s also asking Embiid to wait-and-see.
I think the odds Embiid becomes a Knick went up slightly today.
Wasn’t Tucker traded to the Clippers?
D’oh
It’s not up to Ujiri, whether Siakam is willing to turn down extra money is another question.
OG has a player option. I’m not sure why, but Spotrac isn’t listing him as a FA, so maybe there’s other player option guys who aren’t being listed.
Kawhi has averaged 40 games played per year since joining the Clippers and George has averaged 46. It’s not like Harden is an iron man but I can see why they added him to that aging core. Their two main guys miss an awful lot of games and you can’t really count on them.
I figured that if you have any 2 of PG, Harden, and Kawhi healthy then you have a legit shot at a title. It’s definitely an upgrade over the garbage they just sent out.
Morey may have “broken even” on assets, but Philly should be trying to win, not trying to accumulate assets. I don’t see how this move helps them win.
If I’m Morey, I’d pivot to a rebuild.
Some trades are good for one team and some trades are good for both teams. The seems like it might be the rare trade that’s bad for both teams.
Harden is still pretty good. I think the adjustments on fouls dinged his value, adjustments to the rules he basically caused.
I don’t know, trade seems fine for both teams to me.
there’s no way to get assets now with harden…. there weren’t many teams that were willing to give up things for a guy they can’t even extend….
so they have to either do a delayed 3-team trade… or pivot to a rebuild…. either way they needed those likely very good first rd picks to go with either strategy….
and which way they go will depend entirely on how big this leap from maxey is….
IMO, having any two of Harden, George, and Kawhi is not going to win a title. I don’t think having all 3 is going to win a title. IMO, they are not an ideally constructed team. They are going to be a nightmare for small teams like the Knicks, but they aren’t getting past a healthy Denver.
Feels like Isiah may be working for the Clippers too. It kind of feels like the Suns.
I had similar feelings before the season started. Then I started watching Maxey play and realized they probably already have their 2nd option. They need a few battle tested vets for depth to make a serious run. If they can add a better player somewhere, that’s great. But this team is already better than I thought just a few weeks ago. Boston is going to be tough for anyone, but Boston has no one that can deal with Embiid. I think the 76ers can hang with the Bucks.
Ujiri has now been cornered into trading Siakam for Philly’s newly acquired expirings + a boat load of picks & rights to picks swaps. Best value he will get is between today and trade deadline, – otherwise Ujiri’s summer 2024 is going to be same as last summer. Losing two all star players in back to back summers for nothing in return. Rinse. Repeat.
The Clippers would be awesome if it was 2017. They have a bit of a feel of the KG Nets to me
I don’t really know what to make of the Clips. So much depends on Kawhi. If he is actually healthy and stays that way, that seems to make them a legit contender. PJ probably helps them more than he did the Sixers. Russ has been awesome so far, too many turnovers but as a #4 he seems perfect. I really like their chances IF IF IF they can stay healthy.
Starters:
Kawhi
PG13
Harden
Zubac
Russ
Bench:
Bones
Powell
PJ
Plumlee
That’s a pretty damn good rotation. You can flip Russ and PJ, but beyond that, seems like a go.
It obviously isn’t some great trade for the Sixers (and I’m legit astonished that Terrence fucking Mann was really a sticking point in this fucking thing), but I think while working with a terrible situation, this tiptoed the line about as well as you could possibly expect, giving them enough non-terrible players in the short term to still be an above-average team (built around the reigning MVP and the leap-taking Maxey) while maximizing their ability to add a third star plus this offseason (or during the season).
Neither FVV nor Siakam are/were super max worthy players. They’re not really leaving much on the table by getting out of dodge. The whole league shoudl know this. Siakam liked playing for Nurse too. Say what you want about his methods but Morey is a genious at turning lemons into lemonade. Ujiri is all right but he’s not real.
I really don’t get how Harden and Russ work together.
You’re right. They don’t fit. Never did. Never will.
Russ < Harden. In that respect, they improved.
These 4 hall of fame veterans are wise enough to ball out in their last contract year and play through small injuries for a owner who doesn’t care about tax money, – so I fully expect them to run up the W tab this season.
I think Morey did ok, given the circumstances, it’s hard to get more than he did when the player is calling you a liar and saying he won’t play for your team again. Of course, Morey might be to blame for reaching that point, but that’s where they were. About the trade for the Sixers, i think it sets them up to get a good player in the summer, be it a free agent or a guy that asks out. Remember, Morey doesn’t tank. For the Clippers i understand the urgency, because we live in the present, but when managing a team you have to keep your long term plan in mind too. I think it’s ill advised to send picks that much into the future, because this team will fade a lot sooner and they could be bad by then without the assets to try to be good again.
Saw this comment on Twitter and figured it’d get some reactions here:
“I think one of the greatest tricks ever pulled in modern sports, is Daryl Morey using a certain subset of sports writers’ belief that they were smarter than their peers, to convince them that he is smarter than his peers.
And that each goal unreached was further proof of genius”
Exactly, and there’s a good chance that 2028 pick will be a #1 pick too, like the Nets.
Russ is on a minimum deal. At that price, I think it’s one of the very best contracts in the NBA. He just needs to be utilized like Josh Hart, if he will accept that sort of role. He can still fuck up the vast majority of bench players in the NBA.
I’ve never been a fan of Morey, and really soured on him when he put up that 30ft mural of Carmelo Anthony wearing #7 when Jeremy Lin was still on the team and wearing that number. He is a cold-blooded lizard of a GM. He and Harden deserved each other.
But that said, he’s very good in his lane. This deal is about as good as any GM could have done under the circumstances.
It’s probably a bad bet by the Clips, but what else could they have done?
You think so? Can you elaborate? I think with this effort to solve the Harden drama, Embiid will probably wait for the summer to see what player they can get. If Morey nails that move, he’ll remain with the Sixers, if not, then i agree he’ll probably ask out. But Morey usually is good at luring good players in, so i think the odds went down.
One them keeps a seat on the bench warm while the other is on the court.
He also wanted Timofey Mozgov.
Oh, wait a minute, I might be mixing a couple of deals up. 😉
Not mortgage more of their future. They are acting like the gambler that started winning and is now losing, you’ll never get your money back, give up and try next time. This is the 5th year of the Kawhi/PG Clippers, they need to understand it was a good move in 2019 but it failed.
I loved this. lmao
I will say though that I think the young crowd of basketball sportswriters from years back that he’s talking about are much better now. The coverage and analysis of the game took a huge leap forward as the younger more stats oriented guys watched many more years of basketball and put it all together.
the mockups of the in-season tournament court at msg look hideous… i am hoping very much it looks much better in person….
Typical trolly contrarian stuff. Nothing we haven’t seen for years. “The guy you think is good is not good.” Whoa, my mind is blown!
I’ll give them credit for at least trying something, but yeah, they’re garish as heck.
Is it though Brian? Many people have put Morey on a pedestal and what has he won? His teams have never even made it to the NBA Finals and he’s had multiple HOFers on his rosters.
He’s made an endless number of significant mistakes. What’s he’s been good at is recovering from what looked like a major blunder and putting himself back in a decent position…kind of like he just did today.
Man, I already forgot about the tournament. I guess the court makes it pretty difficult to forget during the game.
Russell Westbrook has fundamentally changed his game this season, his USG% is down to an almost unthinkable 16.9. This is not a guy who is taking 25 FGA a game and using 40% of his team’s possessions anymore.
This “old man” version of Westbrook is not a bad player, and should be able to play alongside Harden just fine.
I’m not actually trying to hate on Morey, I wish he would’ve been Knicks GM and had the success he had in Houston. But the point of the comment I think was mocking the people who worship him as if he’s some genius when the facts are despite all the great players he’s been able to acquire he hasn’t even won a conference championship let alone an NBA championship.
Comments that say that people who disagree with them about Morey “worship him” are just being dicks for the sake of trolling. Which is fine, it’s always like this. But it’s just normal trolling, and not some interesting new angle. People can criticize Morey all they want, they certainly have, to try to play martyr about it like that commenter is just trolly nonsense.
I think Morey was a genius, he embraced advanced stats a lot sooner than everybody else. Right now i think he’s a good GM, but not the best anymore. And he probably would’ve went to the Finals if not for CP3’s hamstring injury, against a juggernaut team, which is an even more remarkable feat.
I was hoping to just split this back to back presumably winning the game at home but with how banged up the Cavs are fuck this I want the Knicks to go for the kill and sweep these 2 games.
Morey has had a ton of success. Failing to win a championship, or even a Conference, isn’t failure.
Yeah, it’d be a major statement.
https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1719400337130271188
Happy Halloween! LOL
I think they just went to zero.
The Sixers are already better than us and now Morey can trade unprotected 1sts in 2026 (OKC), 2028 (LA), 2029 (PHI), & 2031 (PHI). He can do it during the season with expiring contracts. He can do it during the offseason with his cap space.
He’s going to close a deal for someone. My guess is he will focus on Mitchell.
A handful of these guys simply haven’t realized there are diminishing returns as you add high usage scorers. You need that high level #1 and #2 option and some scoring off the bench, but after that you are looking for guys that really excel in other areas of the game that can be efficient on low usage. Beal can score, but what exactly do they need him for when they have Durant and Booker who are super elite scorers.
Isiah always seemed to overvalue scoring (as did Steve Mills).
Unfortunately, I agree.
He’d be nuts to come to NY now after seeing Maxey play these opening games and the team being in a better position to improve.
Morey did his best work after Yao got hurt turning out a bunch of perfectly mediocre teams in Houston with a bunch of guys who nobody wanted or had heard of. He made Carl Landry a useful NBA player, which might be his greatest achievement.
The rest of his career has been fine.
They would have lost that series in 5 games if Iguadola didn’t get hurt when the Warriors were up 2-1
I hate to say this, but I think the Knicks are running out trade options to add a star unless they want Towns or Mitchell. We’ve discussed the drawbacks of those two moves. It might be time to draft a couple players after this season, try to consolidate and move up etc.. unless some new players look they might shake loose as the season develops.
I mean, he also traded Kevin Martin, or whoever it was, for James Harden
That’s what it looks like right now, but things tend to have a way of changing out of nowhere.
if championships are the barometer was david griffin and bob myers the greatest gm’s of the last 15 years?
once you go down this morey logic… it quickly turns into an anti-intellectual hate boner more than anything so that people can feel comfortable in their vibes without anyone challenging them on it… because yes smart people will eviscerate that kind of logic….
morey is one of the big reasons why modern basketball is played the way it is today… that’s not worship.. that’s reality… his impact goes way beyond oncourt success and that’s basically his legacy if he were to retire right now… that’s a lot like billy beane… who was not the only smart guy in the baseball.. but because of his success he ushered in the modern era….
for people to copy your strategy and way of thinking without the benefit of championships to your name… that record speaks for itself…. you don’t have to like him… but if you’re going to deny that kind of impact… that’s very old crabby scout guy in moneyball kind of attitude…
I’ve been a big advocate for patience for that very reason, but even I’m beginning to question “who” might shake loose. We need an upgrade somewhere eventually.
djphan,
If you are going to say that about Morey, you have to put Mike D’Antoni in the conversation also. It was those two together that really started testing the limits.
I’m not so sure I’d be bragging about creating the way the modern NBA and MLB is being played.
“anti-intellectual hate boner ”
I MUST find a way to use that in my next performance review…
People said this last year when we didn’t get Mitchell, but then NBA teams proceeded to trade Kyrie, KD, KP, CP3, Beal, Harden, Jrue, Bridges, and Dame
lmao
I don’t disagree, but I think that’s specifically for the “You just like Morey because…” people like that social media post. I think people can criticize Morey without getting into that sort of thing. It’s just that a lot of people do get into that sort of thing.
look you might not like it… but that’s way more impact than some nobody right… and that’s what we’re talking about that he doesn’t deserve the credit he gets isn’t it? you revolutionize the game you should be mentioned as someone who’s had some impact tho… and if you don’t recognize that.. that’s what a hater is isn’t it?
or you tell me what you think that is… cause it sounds like you got some gears to grind on this one…. so please expand for the rest of us if i got it all wrong….
and morey isn’t alone… there’s plenty of folks who moved the game forward… players.. coaches.. front office guys… in all sports.. business .. anywhere… there are folks who challenge the way people think… and they’re mostly outsiders who provide a different perspective.. these are your leaders….
and then there are guys who mostly follow everyone else… and for those who were acolytes of yesterday’s heroes and fighting the last war… are now finding their thoughts and opinions in the dustbin… and that’s where i imagine where the animosity flows… it’s a sad but recurrent affair…
who said you can’t criticize him? he’s not some deity… but someone is trying to convince us that he’s some nobody that’s completely overrated simply because there’s a horde of nerds artificially putting him on a pedestal…. and they are to blame for their own irrelevance….
no .. just no…
and instead of adapting.. .they then instead choose to create their own reality where they can feel comfortable again…. you can double down infinitely in the face of a mountain of evidence without having to learn or acknowledge anything…. and that’s where a lot of the world’s problem these days stem from… you only have to look at this country’s politics for an analog to this attitude….
Oh sure, I was just clarifying that not everyone who criticizes Morey is like that douchey anti-intellectual Twitter commenter.
Both PG and Kawhi can opt out this year. If the Clippers fall apart how about they both leave and sign with Embiid and Maxey in Philly next summer. That would be hilarious.
I know that won’t happen but this trade has set the Sixers up for things like this. Their flexibility is insane and because of that, they will get another star before the beginning of next season.
Embiid has no reason to leave now. This was a home run for the Sixers.
Personally, I think it is a bullet dodged for the Knicks. Embiid shortens our timeline, takes all of our assets, and doesn’t even really make us a contender.
I’ve never quite understood why I should care as a fan and consumer if GMs are making “smart” moves, or “dumb” moves — particularly if you go beyond the superficial and realize that the counterparty to every “dumb” move is someone making definitionally an equally “smart” move. Or vice versa.
Scott Kasmir for Victor Zambrano to one guy is Victor Zambrano for Scott Kasmir to the other guy. Eddy Curry for two unprotected 1s to one guy is two unprotected 1s for Eddy Curry to the other guy. Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond to one guy is Mitch Richmond for Chris Webber to the other guy. Etc., etc.
I want my team to make smart moves. I don’t want my team doing dumbshit things like trading two unprotected 1s for Eddy Curry. That’s it. Other than that, it’s net-net flat, smart and dumb.
The only philosophical retort to this observation, seemingly, is that smartness is to be preferred to dumbness. Which is fine and I agree. If the endeavor is, say, putting a rocket on Mars. If the endeavor is instead, sports … well, at that point, yeah, we are in fact getting into nerds in mom’s basement territory.
People who decry tanking should admire Morey’s record. He’s stepped into multiple situations that, for various reasons, didn’t allow for him to tank, and has built contenders regardless. If the “hybrid” method is your thing, he should be your guy.
I find his personality somewhat grating and like any sports executive with with a 15+ year track record there are certainly misses you can point to, but he can be the Knicks’ GM any day of the week.
I admire Daryl Morey’s stance on Hong Kong. That’s far more important than his stance on tanking.
I do think he’d prefer tanking to purgatory. He’s just never found himself in purgatory for more than a very short time.
I for one like Morey. I don’t think he’s perfect but he is proactive and takes swings. He generally gets good value at the margins and isn’t afraid of taking a risk. He hasn’t always gotten it right and he is definitely overrated by some but he is probably in the top half of NBA GMs and I like him more than Rose.
Other than the Westbrook trade, which was a mess, he did a good job in Houston and the Simmons fiasco in Philly wasn’t his fault, he inherited both Simmons and Rivers.
IMO, it’s kind of like this.
Years ago those that agreed with the advanced statistical approach to the game Morey favored essentially held Morey out as their Warren Buffett. He was the guy they wanted to hear talk about the game.
But his success as a GM wasn’t up to the level of the adulation he was getting. Despite that, the people that adored him remained in some kind of denial even after he made contract and trade mistakes.
IMO, he’s obviously a very smart guy and was ahead of the curve on using advanced stats to improve his understanding of the game.
I just think there was a period where the view of the younger stats guys new to the sport about themselves and Morey was ahead of their own actual understanding of the nuances of the game and how good Morey actually was/is.
That gap has been more than closed. Those young guns are now also seasoned seasoned basketball analysts armed with a deep understanding of the stats. They blow out old school guys. But most of the league has caught up on the use of better stats.
Jesus Christ, now we all have to think about this stupid in-season tournament like 5 games into the season? Silver needs to cut the bullshit and simply make the rules better so games are more enjoyable for the fans who have loved the game since forever.
Oh and welcome back, E!
It’s honestly nice to get a different take back in the mix around here…
E – I don’t think NBA is zero sum like that. It’s not the stock market, where you have one currency. There are two.
I agree about Hong Kong and it’s pretty funny that THE bipartisan issue right now is opposition to the CCP. Morey was a bit of a trendsetter.
Also, there is zero chance you wouldn’t have been crying purgatory in the Yao injury era. The Rockets were the definition of it.
Also, more and more it feels likely that Quickley will be traded by the deadline.
It doesn’t make sense to match a 30 mil offer for him in RFA, and, there’s a very good chance a star will become available by the trade deadline. There’s no way all of these teams won’t be disappointing by then with some falling well below the .500 mark.
It probably won’t be an ideal star, but Leon’s back might be up against a wall by then.
We should be drafting players after every season, and it’s insane that we haven’t been.
In case you haven’t noticed, Jalen Johnson (now just 21 years old) moved into the Hawks’ starting lineup and is emerging as a two-way force.
And don’t even get me started on Jalen Williams.
All we ever had to do was just make draft picks.
With the exception of the Dallas pick, Leon’s clock likely runs out in June 2025. Time to go back to sleep.
Knicks’ Extra 1st-Round Picks:
2024 DAL 1st that protected 1-10 through 2025
2024 DET 1st that’s top 18 protected this year, top 13 in ’25, top 11 in ’26, top 9 in 2027
2024 WAS 1st that’s top 12 protected this year 2024, top 10 in ’25, top 8 in 2026
2025 MIL 1st protected top 4
Anyone care to take a stab at explaining the in-season tournament in simple terms? I mean, I read and write for a living, so generally I am not put off by long threads of text, but my head almost exploded when I went to the Web page to explain the tournament and saw what it looked like. Maybe it’s because it’s the end of the day, but I just can’t handle it right now.
But I’d love someone to explain it, because we seem to be on the precipice of it (which I also didn’t realize until someone just said it). I mean, is it just like the set of games between one date and another date carry more weight? I feel it must be more than that, but I don’t know how much more.
Thanks in advance to anyone who cares to indulge this request.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume he’s going to get that kind of offer.
Keep in mind Austin Reaves is significantly better than IQ and no one offered him a thing bc they knew the Lakers would match.
It’s dumb.
“Also, more and more it feels likely that Quickley will be traded by the deadline.”
“It probably won’t be an ideal star, but Leon’s back might be up against a wall by then.”
Man, ess-dog, you are one doggie downer. (Not to be confused with one downtown doogie.)
I’m waiting for someone to chime in about Austin Reaves apparently being significantly better than IQ…
I concur.
If we advance or place or whatever it is, then they’ll let us know when it happens.
BBA, was going to say something but I don’t have time today to do a comparison. Since I believe Quick is a top-50 player of all time (at least in terms of charm), I might be biased…
IQ is favored by pretty much every metric, so I wasn’t in a rush to answer
Bones Hyland and Cam Thomas, too.
For now, i think you only need to know how the first stage works. The first stage will be 3 groups of 5 teams in each conference, all teams play each other once, 2 games will be at home and 2 away. Our group is us, MIL, WAS, MIA and CHA. Our away games are in Milwaukee and Washington. When all teams played 4 games, the team with the most wins win the group. I don’t know the rules if there’s a tie, but i suspect it’s the point differential. The group winner advances to the quarter finals. The best 2nd placed team of the 3 conference groups will also advance.
What’s comical is that they say this is what we do here in Europe but we don’t, we have other competitions, we don’t have SOME games of one competition counting for a 2nd competition. That’s kind of insane, but we’ll see how it goes.
How many games are the Knicks going to have to play on those ridiculously awful courts?
Thanks, cyber. I understand it a little bit better now—not as well as I was initially hoping, but I’m realizing more and more that it is not a deficit in your explanation of it but rather a deficit in the tournament making any sense.
I’d rather have some Elam Ending games. What I never really understood about that is 1) who determines the “score to get”?, and 2) is it based on anything numerical or scientific? Everytime I see it explained it seems rather arbitrary and not based on much.
Reaves beat IQ in literally every shooting category: FG%, eFG%, TS%, 2pt%, 3pt%, FT%. And none of them were close.
Reaves was also great in the playoffs while IQ had a -3.7 BPM.
So yeah, I’d say significantly better. And while appeals to authority are never ideal, I’m pretty comfortable citing USA Basketball’s selection of one over the other as evidence.
Morey is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser. He’s more of a a 2B option, than a true number one. He’s a great hustle bunny GM though.
LOL. I wasn’t trying to be negative. I actually think it could end in a decent outcome.
In my mind, I was imagining the Bulls playing terribly and then deciding to trade LaVine for a few firsts, Quick, and filler.
I know people here are against this “star”, but Brunson, Grimes/RJ, LaVine, Randle, Mitch could be a strong lineup.
Or you have the other usual names like KAT and a few others. Idk… I just don’t see a lot of other avenues over the next three years or so.
I would take Reaves over IQ, and I love IQ. Big wings who can handle some usage and defend are worth their weight in gold.
I don’t see Quickley getting traded at the deadline. His salary is simply too small unless it’s part of a larger deal. I think we go into restricted free agency and either match the best offer or get him to begrudgingly sign whatever we’re offering.
BPM, DARKO, and EPM all favor IQ. Again, not really worth bringing up.
Yeah, height is a metric, too, and 6’5″ vs 6’3″ is a pretty clear advantage. Just ask IQ’s coach.
Ah, yes, let’s cite the deeply flawed all-in-one statistics and make believe they’re like WAR. Not much of an argument.
Based on the number of good games i’ve seen from IQ compared to the good games i’ve seen from Reaves, i’d definitely keep IQ. 😀
IQ is shorter than Reaves but he has more wingspan and is a much better defender by every metric you can look at. Reeves is more efficient but he also has tried to do a lot less than IQ, he stays in his lane much more. Reaves’s 3pt% for his career is a bit lower but basically the same as IQ’s. So really it is just a higher 2pt% but he averages fewer 2pt shots per 36 than IQ. Also, IQ’s BPM is significantly better for his career. Even if it is a noisy stat -0.7 vs 1.0 is a huge difference.
Reaves is better at being a floor stretcher with a bit of creation that plays off of a player like LeBron. IQ is better at being an offense initiator and primary scorer and a better defender. IQ has had 26% of 2s and 62% of 3s assisted while Reaves has had 45% of 2s and 90% of 3s assisted.
I think IQ’s role is generally paid more. Plus Reaves has only had one good season. So I think there was fear of regression and fear of a low ceiling keeping his contract down.