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Knicks Morning News (2023.10.07)

  • Predictions for the week ahead: Oct. 8-14 – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, October 7, 2023 6:00:00 AM

    Predictions for the week ahead: Oct. 8-14  Posting and Toasting

  • Is New York Knicks Guard Jalen Brunson Underpaid? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 10:58:01 PM

    Is New York Knicks Guard Jalen Brunson Underpaid?  Sports Illustrated

  • Spike Lee immersive exhibit opens at Brooklyn Museum – NBC New York
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 10:49:42 PM

    Spike Lee immersive exhibit opens at Brooklyn Museum  NBC New York

  • Knicks’ RJ Barrett primed for breakout after World Cup and playoff runs – Yahoo Sports
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 9:24:00 PM

    Knicks’ RJ Barrett primed for breakout after World Cup and playoff runs  Yahoo Sports

  • Cavs Stars Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland Get Hilariously Honest … – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 9:11:00 PM

    Cavs Stars Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland Get Hilariously Honest …  ClutchPoints

  • Atlantic Notes: Achiuwa, Raptors, Claxton, Thomas, Knicks – hoopsrumors.com
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 9:10:00 PM

    Atlantic Notes: Achiuwa, Raptors, Claxton, Thomas, Knicks  hoopsrumors.com

  • Nets journeyman’s ‘mental shift’ prepared him for New York return – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 9:05:00 PM

    Nets journeyman’s ‘mental shift’ prepared him for New York return  New York Post

  • What each Knick needs to do to take a step forward this season – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 8:18:00 PM

    What each Knick needs to do to take a step forward this season  New York Post NBA Rumors: Recent Julius Randle move linked to potential trade from Knicks  ClutchPointsAlready an elite rebounder, Knicks center Mitchell Robinson keeps getting better  Newsday

  • What Happened To This Former New York Knicks Star? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 8:12:08 PM

    What Happened To This Former New York Knicks Star?  Sports Illustrated

  • NBA Rumors: Knicks checked on Zion, Harden-Clippers update, PG13 extension talks – FanSided
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 7:32:27 PM

    NBA Rumors: Knicks checked on Zion, Harden-Clippers update, PG13 extension talks  FanSided

  • Tom Thibodeau Cherishes New York Knicks’ Continuity – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 6:32:43 PM

    Tom Thibodeau Cherishes New York Knicks’ Continuity  Sports Illustrated

  • Former pros and Rockettes pay a visit to Highbridge students – News 12 New Jersey
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 5:53:42 PM

    Former pros and Rockettes pay a visit to Highbridge students  News 12 New Jersey

  • NBA Rumors: Knicks reportedly inquired about trade for … – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 5:21:10 PM

    NBA Rumors: Knicks reportedly inquired about trade for …  Daily Knicks

  • New York Knicks ‘Checked In’ on Zion Williamson Trade; Is He Leon … – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 4:50:49 PM

    New York Knicks ‘Checked In’ on Zion Williamson Trade; Is He Leon …  Sports Illustrated

  • J.B Bickertstaff hopes to turn the Cavs into a more “dynamic” team – Fear the Sword
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 3:55:11 PM

    J.B Bickertstaff hopes to turn the Cavs into a more “dynamic” team  Fear the Sword

  • Knicks’ RJ Barrett primed for breakout after World Cup and playoff runs – New York Daily News
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 1:47:31 PM

    Knicks’ RJ Barrett primed for breakout after World Cup and playoff runs  New York Daily News

  • Why Larry Brown’s a ‘Big Fan’ of Current New York Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 1:15:30 PM

    Why Larry Brown’s a ‘Big Fan’ of Current New York Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks Rumors: Zion Williamson Trade Was Discussed; Pelicans ‘Not Sold’ on Star – Bleacher Report
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 12:11:47 PM

    Knicks Rumors: Zion Williamson Trade Was Discussed; Pelicans ‘Not Sold’ on Star  Bleacher Report

  • Which Knicks player will be the odd man out? It could come down to defense – The Athletic
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 11:33:35 AM

    Which Knicks player will be the odd man out? It could come down to defense  The Athletic

  • Boomer: Mets front office hires reminiscent of previous Knicks regimes – WFAN
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 10:24:00 AM

    Boomer: Mets front office hires reminiscent of previous Knicks regimes  WFAN

  • Latest James Harden trade report states obvious about New York Knicks – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 10:00:34 AM

    Latest James Harden trade report states obvious about New York Knicks  Daily Knicks

  • Fran Fraschilla On RJ Barrett – Duke Basketball Report
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 9:00:00 AM

    Fran Fraschilla On RJ Barrett  Duke Basketball Report

  • Knicks beat reporter predicts if/when Immanuel Quickley will sign … – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 8:00:13 AM

    Knicks beat reporter predicts if/when Immanuel Quickley will sign …  Daily Knicks

  • “One day when little Nathan grows up…” – When Steve Novak savagely roasted Nate Robinson in 2013 – Basketball Network
    [news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 7:43:04 AM

    “One day when little Nathan grows up…” – When Steve Novak savagely roasted Nate Robinson in 2013  Basketball Network

  • 37 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.10.07)”

    I think the idea that you need a superstar or a super team to win it all doesn’t necessarily hold true right now. We’ve had 5 different title winners in the last NBA finals. There aren’t any dynasties right now. It doesn’t feel like we’re in an era where a team needs a top 5 player and another all-star or two to win it all. A really well balanced team with several all-star caliber players and great supporting cast that is better than the sum of it’s parts could win it all. And we’ve got a team that has so much room for internal growth that if we got lucky and several of our young players took a big leap forward at once…we could break through and win it all.

    I agree with all this.

    However, to contend this way, imo, you can’t have any obvious team weaknesses. We still have clear weaknesses.

    The spacing is still not right in the starting lineup with RJ, Randle, and Mitch starting.

    RJ is too inefficient as 3rd option. You can settle for below average efficiency if the player is low usage and you are loaded on offense elsewhere as long as he’s having an impact in other ways. But you can’t have low efficiency as 3rd option for a guy that’s suspect on defense and brings no other above average attributes to the table.

    On defense you can get away one bad defender. For us, that’s going to be Brunson. But when you have 2-3 it’s starts compounding into bigger problems. We don’t get consistent defense from either Randle or RJ also.

    I don’t want to dump on RJ because I think he’s going to keep improving and may eventually be a good player, but IMO the difference between the team we saw last year and a serious contender is getting that longer wing that plays both sides better than RJ.

    If we had a player like that the Knicks would be on my list of teams to bet to win it all. But I’m not sure management quite gets the problem. Every time we hear names that they are hot for it some superstar player that isn’t exactly going to correct what ails this team. It’s just going to make us better in some area.

    We need a taller wing that defends at a very high level, that can play some backup PF if we go small, and that can score efficiently at a 3rd option level.

    Gee I wonder who that might be?

    The last 12 championships were won by teams that had either Steph, LeBron, Kahwi, Jokic, or Giannis on them.

    It’s been a really long time since a team won a chip without a first ballot hall of famer leading it. Seems to me like you really do need that superstar to win a title.

    There’s a chicken or egg debate as to whether having first-ballot hall-of-famers creates championships, or whether having championships creates first-ballot hall-of-famers; but, regardless, JK’s observation is obviously an astute one.

    And I’ll tell you this with 90%+ probability: one of those five is going to win it again this year.

    bring on the knickerblogger performance artists extraordinaire…

    it’s never too late to begin…

    is there any interesting news out of wherever it is they’re training?

    OK, sure. But won’t Billups and probably Rasheed end up in the hall of fame bc they win a chip?

    Also, remove Steph and lebron and that takes away 8 of the last twelve titles. Kawhi got two but his first one was on a super well balanced spurs team where I would argue he wasn’t superstar status at that time. Giannis and Jokic have one each.

    So really the point is having Lebron and Steph gives you a great shot at a title. But those dudes are old now. I don’t see Gianni’s and Jokic or Doncic, ja, etc…being at that level so far above everyone worse that they’re shoe ins for the finals every year.

    bold predictions then:
    – julius will have a 10.0 or less turnover percentage
    – quentin will have a usage above 15.0, and his effective field goal % will be 60 or above
    – jalen will finish top 15 in vorp this year
    – mitch will appear in 65 or more games this year (that’s more a prayer)

    if that stuff happens – we should win a bunch more than we lose this season…a bunch…

    more than anything – i would like to see our home court record significantly improve…a 30 win season at home would be pretty cool…

    yep, keep moving forward…just gotta keep your eye on lucy, make sure lucy knows something is getting kicked…

    The Blllups/Wallace Pistons team won that chip 20 years ago. I’d say they were the exception rather than the norm.

    What are we even debating here? It’s damn near impossible to win a chip without an elite superstar. Why is this even a controversial statement?

    good “teams” do seem to make it to the finals often enough, they just can’t seem to beat a good team that has 1 or 2 of the top 10 players in the league on their team…

    i suspect – we will probably not win a championship this year…we don’t have a top 10 player on the roster…generously perhaps – we have a couple of top 30 players…expectations should probably match…

    i am actually okay with that idea heading in to the season – blame donnie…

    i don’t think we really got any shot at all…conference finals would be nice though…who knows, maybe along the way someone will want RJ and evian on their roster…some kind of pick(s), maybe a small forward (28 years and below) with some previously positive statistical metrics related to playing nba basketball…that would be good…

    We’re in a situation where the consensus here among the regulars seems to be that we don’t have enough assets to make a superstar trade without completely gutting the team. Any potential trade idea for a superstar is met by “nope not worth it.”

    Which… okay, fair enough. Maybe we don’t have the asset pile necessary to do that. But now we’re trying to make the argument that you don’t need a superstar to win a title, despite the fact that like 19 of the past 20 champions had a superstar on the roster.

    Folks, we’re not gonna be Julius Randle-ing and Jalen Brunson-ing and Josh Hart-ing our way to an NBA championship. We can still be very good and entertaining but let’s cut it out with the wishful thinking takes because that shit is embarrassing.

    If you don’t have a superstar, you’re not really a true title contender. Full stop. Let me know the next time a team wins a title without one if I’m still alive by then.

    “The Blllups/Wallace Pistons team won that chip 20 years ago.”

    So maybe it happens once every 20 years…

    I’m mostly funning. But I do think if we got Mikal we’d be a fucking dangerous team. We’re kind of dangerous now, but not terribly balanced. Flip RJ and a few picks for MB…

    Don’t really see why the pistons were a fluke. They demolished the lakers and we’re one minute away from repeating the next year. They also made three more conference finals and honestly got robbed the year Cleveland beat them and got demolished by the spurs.

    They weren’t a dynasty cause they just had the one title but they dominated the east for like 5 years.

    I never said we could win like that with this team. Just that I believe we’re in an era where a team like that could win bc there are no real dynasties and the superstars from the curry, Lebron, Durant era are all aging out – harden, cp3, etc. And the new ones – Gianni’s, Jokic, Doncic, don’t seem to be so much better that it’s a sure thing their teams get to the finals. There’s more partir across the league right now and super teams are harder to form. That was my original point.

    Detroit Pistons:
    2003 – Conference Finals (swept… ouch!)
    2004 – NBA Champions
    2005 – NBA Finals (Spurs in 7!!!)
    2006 – Conference Finals (Heat in 6, later NBA Champions)
    2007 – Conference Finals (Cavs in 6)
    2008 – Conference Finals (Celtics in 6, later NBA Champions)

    The team that just won the title had a player with a 13 BPM. The player on the team with the second highest BPM was Aaron Gordon at 2.1.

    Jokic’s BPM last year was the third highest in NBA history.

    Even if we don’t win a chip, if we go to 2 finals and 4 conference finals in 6 years, i’ll be very happy!

    We’re in a situation where the consensus here among the regulars seems to be that we don’t have enough assets to make a superstar trade without completely gutting the team. Any potential trade idea for a superstar is met by “nope not worth it.”

    I don’t agree with this. I think we have the assets to trade for a superstar without gutting the team. But we’ll have only one move, meaning we have to be careful about the superstar we make a move for. Embiid has been the most talked about lately, and i think i understand both parties, on one side yeah we’ll need a superstar if we want to win it all, but on the other side Embiid brings a lot of risk because of injuries. I think if he’s available we should do it, and we’ll be able to keep Brunson and Randle, so we’re not gutting the team. But i also understand people that are opposed to this trade because we’re the Knicks and with our luck Embiid will be down most of the time and we won’t have more moves to make to counter it.

    I also want to watch the Knicks because it is one of our family traditions and is not so ethically divisive and judgy. While my wife (of 40 years) and I don’t see to eye to eye often politically, watching sports (Mets, Giants, Knicks and tennis) brings us together and is quite cathartic after a few beers. Sports is sports and removes me from my work-takes me out of my head. Of course, the Mets were awful, and the Giants are looking really bad, but that stink can still be cathartic. In general, I don’t see the Knicks underachieving this year, they will be entertaining and rootable and there are many interesting sub texts. I can’t freaking wait till Monday!!!!

    Dirk led the Mavs to a chip, so there’s been 2 teams in the last 20 years. Honestly, they seemed way more flukish than the Pistons.

    thank you for the kind words waylon…i like what you said about being able to share the sports thing with family…i went yanks, giants, knicks…sort of watched the islanders when they were crushing it in the early 80’s…

    let’s see, i got 3 kids, my ma, sis, aunt/uncle, a close friend, other possible friends…i’m looking at about a total of zero to share a game with…sometimes the kids will watch the mma stuff for a moment…

    that’s cool…it’s fine to drink alone…

    Not alone, Geo. We watch the games and are here commenting all of it. And it’s way more fun than when i used to watch alone and without anyone to share my opinions with. Also, we were a lousy team and i think KB is even more fun when we’re bad, the game threads used to be hilarious in the way we made fun of our own team. 😀

    While my wife (of 40 years)

    Wow, that’s great, congrats. 😉 And here i was thinking that 19 years was a great achievement. 😛

    So just took The Athletic’s NBA survey, and among other things they asked what I liked best about the NBA and what I liked the worst. I was actually stumped on the worst. I didn’t put RJ Barrett down as that seemed cruel.

    Any opinions?

    What about this years Celtics? If they win it all who is their superstar?

    The Celtics have Tatum, who is a top 10 player in the league. Maybe not quite the usual best guy on a title team, but very very close.

    Tatum isn’t one of those guys, though. And the fact that this Celtics team has been bridesmaids for so long is probably a testament to needing one of them.

    So I infer that you consider Boston big underdogs to Milwaukee because Milwaukee has a superstar and they don’t.

    “I think we have the assets to trade for a superstar without gutting the team. But we’ll have only one move, meaning we have to be careful about the superstar we make a move for. Embiid has been the most talked about lately, and i think i understand both parties, on one side yeah we’ll need a superstar if we want to win it all, but on the other side Embiid brings a lot of risk because of injuries. I think if he’s available we should do it, and we’ll be able to keep Brunson and Randle, so we’re not gutting the team. But i also understand people that are opposed to this trade because we’re the Knicks and with our luck Embiid will be down most of the time and we won’t have more moves to make to counter it.”

    This is correct. In fact, the only two teams I can think of that traded a gartantuan package to acquire a superstar and went on to win a title are the Bubble Lakers, which have nothing in common with this team, and the Garnett Celts, which seems somewhat similar. The price paid for Garnett, though large, was significantly lower than the likely price for Embiid. And to me, Garnett was the better and by far the more durable player…he played 3,000 minutes like every pre-Celts year! Also, I think Pierce was better than Randle and Allen and Brunson are both great but different. The Celts Big 3 complemented each other perfectly, while Brunson, Embiid, Randle all want to occupy the same space.

    And a key for Ainge was to keep Rondo out of the deal. If the Celts didn’t do that, they wouldn’t have won that one championship.

    No, that’s not a fair inference. I’m not saying the team with the superstar automatically wins.

    You may infer that I am extremely confident Boston will not win the title, though. It might not be Giannis, but it’s going to be someone.

    They weren’t a fluke in that they got lucky. They were a fluke in that the blueprint to win titles is superstars and solid role players. Billups peaked and Ben Wallace was a beast on defense in an era where you could score 71 points and win a ballgame.

    They deserved every bit of their success. There has been no team like them in my lifetime. Every other NBA champion has had a tier 1 superstar or two tier 2 superstars, or both. Maybe you could add the Isiah Pistons to that list, I was alive then.

    Jordan/Pippen
    Hakeem/Drexler
    Duncan/Robinson
    Kobe/Shaq
    Duncan/Manu/Parker
    Billups/Wallace
    Garnett/Pierce/Allen
    Kobe/Pau
    LeBron/Wade
    Curry/Draymond
    Curry/Durant
    Kawhi
    LeBron/AD
    Giannis
    Jokic

    I needed no reference to make this list. There are a lot of very-deserving MVPs up there.

    The price paid for Garnett, though large, was significantly lower than the likely price for Embiid. And to me, Garnett was the better and by far the more durable player

    You can’t compare the Garnett trade to anything happening now or ever really. Not only is the league incredibly different today in how players are acquired, but that one-sided trade was immediately panned by everyone, even to the point where people were wondering if McHale was secretly helping Ainge out. Jefferson and 2 picks might be the worst return ever for a legit 2-way star… anything like that trade is never happening again.

    I think the takeaway from the Pistons’ success isn’t to try to emulate their “no superstars” approach but to try to throw a lot of darts and hope that one of them turns into Ben Wallace.

    There’s a chicken or egg debate as to whether having first-ballot hall-of-famers creates championships, or whether having championships creates first-ballot hall-of-famers; got that all under the cap when one guy is giving you a lot of it on his own. ‘

    You need “w” scoring, “x” rebounding, “y” playmaking, “z” defense etc.. to contend for a championship. It’s obviously easier to build a team with all that within cap rules if you have one player that gives you a lot of it on his own. The math is tougher when you don’t, but it’s not impossible. You need a lot of attractive contracts so you can fit a lot of above average players onto the same team instead of the more typical top heavy team with less depth.

    There’s one major player weakness on this team and that’s RJ. Replace a two sided negative player with a two sided positive player and spacer and this team is on the short list of contenders.

    That’s what I was hoping for this off season.

    As to the quote above, there’s definitely a chicken and egg component to it.

    No one thought of Brunson as anything special until he showed that his playoff performances without Doncic the prior year were legit. Most thought we overpaid. It was the perception that changed, not the reality. He was terrific all year without Doncic. He simply sealed it by inching forward and repeating it. If he inched forward again, we replaced RJ with a productive 2 way player, and we made the conference finals or finals, perceptions of what he is would change further.

    I’m never going to understand the *consistent* “Gianni’s” thing. Why the hell would his name be possessive, especially in the wrong location? Weird.

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