[news.google.com] — Friday, October 6, 2023 2:37:00 AM
Ex-Knicks Guard Joins Hands With Stephen Curry in $2.91 Billion … EssentiallySports
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 11:50:00 PM
NBA Rumors: Recent Julius Randle move linked to potential trade from Knicks ClutchPointsJulius Randle channeling Bruce Lee’s ‘hidden gems’ in new Knicks season New York Post Media Round Up: Tough Knicks schedule, French pride, D-Rose dig, Zion connection!? Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 10:45:45 PM
Knicks legend teaching Bronx kids lessons on and off the court PIX11 New York News
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 9:59:00 PM
Former Knick Derrick Rose rips Tom Thibodeau’s training camps New York Post
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 8:34:10 PM
Already an elite rebounder, Knicks center Mitchell Robinson keeps getting better Newsday
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 8:21:20 PM
Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley Among NBA’s Most Intriguing Players For … NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 8:20:00 PM
Did Derrick Rose Take a Swipe at Knicks? Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 8:16:47 PM
Knicks ‘Checked In’ On Trade For Pelicans’ Zion Williamson NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 7:47:59 PM
Knicks ‘Checked in’ With $193 Million Star Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 7:34:00 PM
Larry Brown knows Knicks can follow his Pistons blueprint New York Post
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 5:58:35 PM
NY Knicks and Rangers’ Healthcare Appreciation Nights! Get a $15 … Nurse.org
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 4:48:05 PM
Knicks’ Quentin Grimes trained with ‘one of the best shooters ever in this league’ Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 4:32:29 PM
Knicks’ Evan Fournier takes shot at Joel Embiid after Olympics … Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 4:14:38 PM
Knicks: RJ Barrett offseason growth to manifest new intriguing role ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 3:00:08 PM
WATCH: New York Knicks Legend Patrick Ewing’s ‘Exorcist’ Cameo Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 1:57:30 PM
Former Knicks point guard throws some shade at TomThibodeau Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 1:06:00 PM
BT: Billy Eppler will experience same fate as Scott Perry with Knicks WFAN
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 11:58:00 AM
Knicks Notes: Grimes, Barrett, Hart, Offseason hoopsrumors.com
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 11:50:56 AM
Camp Carolina: Why New York Knicks Returned to Charleston Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 10:55:46 AM
WNBA Finals Are Family Affair For Sandy Brondello, New York Liberty Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 10:34:18 AM
BronxWorks and New York Knicks to host middle School Basketball … Amsterdam News
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 10:00:25 AM
NBA In-Season Tournament rules, dates, pools, bracket Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 8:00:42 AM
3 Scenarios the New York Knicks desperately need to avoid in 2023 … Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Thursday, October 5, 2023 7:34:47 AM
James Harden Trade Rumors: Knicks, 76ers Spoke Early; ‘No Great Motivation’ for NYK Bleacher Report
51 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.10.06)”
I am among the 2 or 3 KB posters who got to take in virtually every minute of the 1969-70 and 1972-73 Knicks teams. There will never, ever in my lifetime be another Knicks team that is as rootable or as successful as the Wilis-Clyde Knicks. It’s been all downhill from there.
And yet, here I am! Through the dogshit period between Clyde and Bernard, through Dolan, Isiah, Mills, DONNIE WALSH, Phil, (who I loved as a player)…through Stephon, Dotson, DRose…still here, through countless shattering moments, rooting my ass off for whoever wears the laundry. Seems like somehow I would have pulled it together after a Mikal + Cam for KD debacle.
But that reaction is what I would expect from some guy who calls himself Donnie Walsh, you know, that merc GM who came in, sucked Dolan’s dick for a few mill, fucked up the team for a decade purportedly against his better judgment without having the balls to resign rather than making a lopsided ill-fated trade, and left with a shit-eating grin on his face. If I could survive that sell-out, I could survive anything!
One of the things I am very thankful for as a diehard Knicks fan circa 2023-24 is that Fred Katz is our beat guy from The Athletic. Here’s a podcast with him and CP the Fanchise that gives insights of a quality we just haven’t gotten from other beat writers.
I will also say that I am more excited about this Knicks team than I have been about any Knicks team for a very long time…probably since going into the 2012-13 season…this year, probably more about the rootability than about the ceiling. Moreover, I am very excited about the non-Knicks developments around the league, especially in the West…Wemby, Chet, Zion…plus the intrigue of the re-tooled Bucks and Celts…can’t wait for the games to start!
While you guys yammer on about basketball I am sitting in a corner reeling from the fact that the Sphere appears to be genuinely awesome and revolutionary.
It can only be good for the Knicks though if that the thin skinned POS has actually cemented his legacy in an area that will keep him fully occupied for the next decade.
I will take the under on the Suns. The whole thing just reeks of Aughts Isiah. It’s “there is only one balll” all over again.
Nov 3 at Milwaukee. Huge game.
So I tried my hand at an actual minutes breakdown, and it was tough. I think Thibs is going to stick to a 9-man rotation that excludes Sims and Deuce unless they outplay other guys. There are just too many swingmen/forwards who need minutes.
Brunson – 34 Quickley – 14
Grimes – 20 Quickley – 14 Donte – 14
RJ – 22 Hart – 14 Grimes – 10 Donte – 2
Randle – 34 RJ – 8 Hart – 6
Mitch – 26 Hartenstein – 22
Brunson – 34
Randle – 34
RJ – 30
Grimes – 30
Quickley – 28
Mitch – 26
Hartenstein – 22
Hart – 20
Donte – 16
The swingmen/forward minutes will obviously vary based on hot hands and such, but this is the best I could do. Grimes will have to play significant minutes at SF, maybe in a small lineup, and the 2nd unit will likely feature a lot of Quick/Donte minutes. Backup PF is clearly a question mark, but I think it’s going to be a place where Thibs can add minutes for RJ and Hart. And he always has Sims if someone taller and/or faster is just abusing the other 3 guys.
Ess-dog, it’s good to see a reasonable thought process about the roster. The Knicks are almost too deep. I happen to love Sims and Deuce but they are there “in case”. They won’t get any PT unless the Knicks make a trade. What that means is that the Knicks are able to make a trade where they give up two or three rotation players plus draft assets to acquire a superstar. I just don’t know if Leon will pull the trigger.
I am probably one of the very few here quite excited about the in-season tournament. It’s a chance for us to make some noise and certainly our best chance of actually winning something this year. While we are clearly a tier below the top 5 teams to win a title, I see us in the very top tier in the ability to win a particular game on a particular night. Our away record last year, the victories in several must-win games we had leading up to the play-offs, and our close-out and elimination game wins in the play-offs all support this.
Unfortunately though the crucial game to our progression is actually the first game against MIL. But if we win it, we probably progress to the knock-outs and maybe initiate a crack in the Dame-Giannis relationship.
ess, that’s a good attempt and it might fly with another coach. However, as Katz points out in the podcast, I think Thibs is going to have some sort of meritocracy that is going to vary game to game, especially in the 4th quarter. As the season goes on, a gap might develop between some players so that the minutes vary less from game to game.
The only way I see the minutes shaking out like you suggest above is for DDV and Hart to significantly underperform. Hart is goint to average at least 24 mpg, and probably more. and DDV is going to average at least 20 mpg. He’s just too good on paper to play 16 mpg. I think there is a chance that he plays lots of 4th quarter minutes on many nights. The question is, at who’s expense?
So my guess is that you will see lots of variance between Hart, RJ, Grimes, IQ and DDV in the game-to-game box scores and at the end of the day, it will lower Grimes and IQ’s minutes and raise Hart’s and DDV’s minutes. RJ will probably be around the 30-minute mark because of playing a lot with the second unit. But I also think he will sit at the end of some games if he’s having an off night.
But I see all of Grimes, IQ, and DDV hovering around the 22-26 mpg mark with lots of variance.
The West is going to be a freakin’ bloodbath. Denver has the best player in the league by far, and still the best starting lineup, but lost some depth. The Suns are all in with a formidable big 3 but are as thin as tissue paper. The Lakers have re-tooled nicely and it’s LeBron’s last hurrah. The Dubs still have their big 3 and might be dangerous. The Clippers are possibly healthy, might pick up Harden, and Ballmer is desperate. The Pels are getting a “healthy, in-shape” Zion back. Minny is getting a healthy KAT back and has a more experienced Ant-Man. Memphis might struggle early but Ja’s suspension will be over before Christmas and they have enough talent to not dig too deep of a hole before that. DAL is up against the Luka clock and have also re-tooled nicely, at least in theory. SAC, UTA, and OKC are all young and intriguing, and HOU has a serious coach and a steadying PG to rein in the talented but scattered kids. The only “bad” teams on paper are the Blazers and Spurs, and who knows what can happen with their kids?
Picking the order of finish in the West is a tall order.
Just to reiterate, the Fred Katz pod is MUST VIEWING for any serious Knicks fan. Not a single thing he says is controversial, knowing the players and coach involved. And he sheds light on both individual players and lineups that, even if you already knew, hearing it from him adds weight to it. Really, he’s the best I’ve seen as a traditional beat guy, not because he’s in the know more than others, but he just explains stuff on such a high level while being witty and funny. I liked Vork and continue to like Begley and Hahn, but this guy’s on a whole other level.
I’ll take the under on Phoenix in the regular season but if they’re healthy in the postseason they’ll be a title favorite.
I really like some of the guys they got on minimum deals. Keita Bates-Diop probably should have merited a look from us, actually.
I have no idea why they like Nurkic and Allen, though.
I’m one of them.
I’d say that team shaped a lot of what I think now about the right way to play basketball. The city loved those guys individually and loved the way they played together. It was perfect basketball. There have been loads of incredible players since then and some more talented teams, but I haven’t seen many that played basketball as well together.
Color me skeptical of Phoenix. I think these “big three” top heavy teams don’t really work anymore.
Everyone wants to recreate Miami with Lebron, Wade and Bosh or Boston in 08 with KG, Pierce and Allen. But it’s very hard to put those types of teams together. Both of those teams were very well balance with their big three and had good two way players. They also had great benches with veterans that were ring chasing.
It feels like with the new CBA, etc…that it’s much harder to put these types of teams together and also, they really only work if you have a legit top 5 player and another guy who is a legit top 10 with your last dude being top 20 or so.
Durant is awesome obviously but is he still top 5? Is Booker top 10? Is Beal even top 20 right now? Are any of them great defenders?
Not sure where this rant came from. I clearly named myself after best-selling spiritual author Neale Donald Walsh. I don’t even know who that other guy you refer to is.
Scoring is universally overrated.
You need “enough” efficient scoring. High usage high efficiency players get you a long way towards “enough” on their own which is what makes them so valuable as individuals. But if you start adding incremental scoring once your are past “enough” it typically comes at the expense defense, rebounding, playmaking, and other less obvious attributes. You eventually get to the point where you are gaining less than would if you just had great role player instead.
The Knicks need another high usage efficient scorer. RJ as 3rd option at his high usage is bad. But we don’t necessarily a top 5 scorer type if Brunson keeping inching forward and Randle can keep it together.
“Not sure where this rant came from. I clearly named myself after best-selling spiritual author Neale Donald Walsh. I don’t even know who that other guy you refer to is.”
Stop…if anything, it was a tribute to the moment when King Dolan whipped it out and said “Kneel, Donald Walsh!”
Anyway, enough of this shit…heading up to lovely Ithaca and Rochester for some volleyball, partying, and leaf-peeping. Until later, whatever Fred Katz said.
Z-Man, enjoy Ithaca. I’m convinced you like Katz because he lurks here and wisely gleans nuggets of brilliance from our endless bickering. Unless he’s actually Swiftie.
And you never answered my question from yesterday about Mikal, which was only half-asked in jest.
I think they just wanted to dump Ayton who was expensive, unhappy, and not that valuable when you already have KD, Beale, and Booker.
They’re solid enough depth pieces and defenders for a team starved for depth and defense.
Seriously, look at this guy’s bref page:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bateske01.html
The Suns got him on the “play one year for us then cash in” promise.
I’d say KD is a pretty good defender.
first time seeing a general admission show at that venue…it was so cool, it was like watching a band in a high school auditorium…a really nice high school auditorium…crowd was a bit too docile for me…
by far the greatest audience diversity i’ve seen at one of their shows…
it’s was funny, there wasn’t the typical “all black” clothing you usually find at a rock show…
it was cool, zack wylde joined the band on stage to help play Would…
i don’t think it’s possible to have too many guitars on stage 🙂
they finished the show with Rooster…so freaking cool standing in a crowd with everyone screaming: we ain’t gonna die…
fantastic affirmation…
About Nurk and Ayton, it is in fact a good move. Ayton on defense is average at best (0.2 DBPM last 3 seasons), Nurk is not among the best but he’s a good defender (1.1 DBPM last 6 seasons). Maybe Ayton has untapped potential, but that is probably all on offense, and who needs offense when you have KD, Book and Beal? Ayton gets the max and Nurk makes only 15.6M. But isn’t all, what i think they were seeking was a center that plays with their teammates and spreads the floor. Last season, Nurk had 3.9 AST/36 while Ayton only 2.0, Nurk had 3.1 3PA/36 per game (.361) while Ayton only 0.4 (.292). This means Nurk will spread the floor a lot more and is much more inclined to get the ball and give it back to one of their (deadly) shooters, while Ayton would probably try to score for himself.
about the “dancing” going on at a rock show…
i tend to spend a lot of time looking around whenever i’m in a crowd – footwear is very important, whatever messaging you have on your shirt, i wanna read…
anyways – folks at the rock shows, aren’t so much dancing as they are simply swaying and bobbing…to a different kind of rhythm…
unless it involves jumping straight up and down – not a lot of foot movement going on…
There’s only one problem with Nurk – availability. Last 4 seasons, he played 8, 37, 56 and 52 games. Ouch.
It looks like you had a great time, Geo. 😉
Have i already said that i believe this will be Brunson’s year? 🤭
always good to connect with old friends…we’ve been going to shows together for a lomg time…
they’re brothers, and it’s cool we always run in to more of their family at the shows themselves…
what i love about going to shows with them is that stuff always goes sooooo smooth…
easy getting to the venue, easy coming up on good food and drink…no drama…just fun…
my sister is like that too, whenever we hang out – everything is planned out, super enjoyable, and it goes smooth…
did you ever get to try out the new basketball with the kids?
That’s me too, Geo. I really don’t see a point in stressing about something that should be fun. Even when i’m late, i just forget that i missed part of the show and try to have fun.
Yes, of course. Z-Man doesn’t like it, but we like it and i think we have better shooting % with this new ball (maybe it’s just random luck). Well, mostly my son because i usually shoot a lot less than him, i’m there like if i’m his trainer. 😀
https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1710359697268556283
How can it be, to have irrational love for a player i’ve never seen play. That’s Clyde, he’s really one of the most lovable persons i know.
awww that’s beautiful cyber…I like that, I’m their “trainer” now 🙂
I’ve had a feeling that this year’s team could be like that 05 Pistons team and win it all.
I think the idea that you need a superstar or a super team to win it all doesn’t necessarily hold true right now. We’ve had 5 different title winners in the last NBA finals. There aren’t any dynasties right now. It doesn’t feel like we’re in an era where a team needs a top 5 player and another all-star or two to win it all. A really well balanced team with several all-star caliber players and great supporting cast that is better than the sum of it’s parts could win it all. And we’ve got a team that has so much room for internal growth that if we got lucky and several of our young players took a big leap forward at once…we could break through and win it all.
Not saying it will happen. Just that we’re in an era where I think it’s more likely a team like that could win it all.
Yeah. I’m in the club. The Frazier head fake was my go-to move in HS, not that I was any good. The game is so much different now because of the 3 point shot. I blame the ABA.
the minutes distribution is going to be a problem unless someone goes down or if people are ok just not playing in entire games… which i think is the only way this gets resolved…. it’s readily apparent whenever anyone actually goes through the exercise…
everyone in the rotation is used to 25+ mpg and approaching/exceeding 2000 mpg…. there’s just going to be a lot of disappointment….
i didn’t start following the knicks until about 1985…so, i never watched those early knick teams…
i don’t know, i don’t really like watching old games…there’s so much present and future stuff…past stuff usually gets pushed to the back of the mind…
i have played clyde a bunch though in NBA2K – great at getting to and finishing at the rim…really good at steals too 🙂
my affinity for clyde is simply clyde himself…never met, but, feel like i know him…
it must be so weird at times to be a celebrity and interact with strangers whom feel as though they know you…
like having your personal space dissolve as if by magic…
that shit would give me a serious case of the willies…
we should just have a thread entitled:
TOP TEN FEARS FOR THE NEW YORK KNICKS TEAM THIS SEASON
my list
– RJ continues to play like RJ
– mitch gets hurt
– julius rolls his ankle again
– we trade quik
– quentin hurts his knee
– thibs stops evolving (he surprised me last season)
– we don’t find a suitable option for our backup power forward role and whoever is in there messes up the 2nd unit mojo
– dolan doesn’t sell this year
– i don’t make it to a game this year
– i’ll think up more shit as the season goes
let us all now wallow in angst…it feels good…
hi milo, you’ve explained dolan’s position of power over msg/knicks a few times…from my understanding it’s slim but impenetrable control…
if you get the chance, could you dumb it down for me please…
I’m not milo but he’s not easy to summon so I’ll break it down for you…
MSG has two classes of stock.
Class A is one vote per share.
Class B is ten votes per share.
The Dolans own all the Class B shares, thus no one one can ever wrest control.
Also through this class structure they get to select the majority of the board of directors, so no one’s going to oust them like in Succession.
hello geo, savior. had an absolute shit week and this is my version of comfort food.
1. msg sports is a public company that owns the knicks and rangers. there are about 24 million shares outstanding.
2. the dolan group owns about 4.5mm of these shares. so the family has 18-19% economic ownership of the teams. the rest is owned by public shareholders. it’s hard to say how much of this 18% will end up with james dolan (charles dolan is still alive) — far from all of it: there are other dolans.
3. but the dolan family shares are a supervoting class, 10x votes for every share owned. so despite only owning 18-19%, they have well over half the vote. jim dolan currently controls these shares, so he controls the company and the teams despite ultimately having only a very minority economic interest.
of course hubert slurped down half my wonton soup while i washed the spoons. wash the damn spoons hubie.
I’ve read that one of the appeals of Allen to the Suns was his expiring contract. It’s almost nine million dollars this season and if it expires and is replaced by a minimum player they will save bundles of luxury tax money.
thank you milo…i hope you have a chance to breathe and shift focus…
i’m gonna do some cooking tonight, picked up the meat and other stuff…gonna do sliced beef, roasted potatoes and cheese on pita…I bought peppers too, I really shouldn’t though…hmmmm, may add some yogurt on top…
probably just end up eating the beef and potatoes together…simultaneously dipping the bread wrapped around peppers in to yogurt…
enough food talk milo, time to go get the boys…maybe do some tv time later…
Damn, I had no idea.
I was in the midst of watching my son play with his best friend, i.e. the kid next door. They managed to scream the phrase “honk honk” consistently for 60 minutes while crashing toy trucks into every inanimate object (one at least one live one) nearby. It never stopped. It was like watching Steph Curry on a heater.
In the midst of this chaos, I, too, found it comforting to explain the voting rights of the MSG corp to kind Geo. I am sorry, I did not know this was your soup.
Hi Geo. You seem cool. Your predictions are possible yet of course entirely outside your control. Except one You can make it to a game this year and rock out. Pick a good one dude! My view is optimistic. I have been an ardent fan since 1967-68 and still play in my local YMCA at the over 45 league. I’m the oldest player. Whatever. BTW, I look forward to a decent (not great) year for our boys. When you mesh all the noise, rather than parsing, it looks pretty good though IMO. 50 wins. Second round again.
I have to say that reading all the preseason writing in the press, there is incredible optimism in many pieces about the Knicks. I do know this is the part of year where optimism for every team reigns supreme, but it still seems more than usual. I hope it’s not all hot air.
Asked by Raven yesterday:
“How many of Noble’s list of picks plus RJ would you offer the Nets for Mikal?”
I would gladly give one of Grimes or IQ, plus RJ, plus an unprotected first and a protected first for Mikal. That’s about it. In other words, not enough to get him.
But what about just RJ and some combo of:
-3 unprotected NYK picks
-2 unprotected NYK swaps
-2 non-NYK protected picks
Do you think there’s a combo platter in there that would work? And at whatever touch point might work, do you think it’d be a huge blunder on our part?
Or is selling off a significant part of our near-term future (which we’re admittedly terrible at picking) for a greyhound wing that gives us a young and up-and-coming team that could be together for five+ years an okay thing?
It would mean rolling the dice on the Detroit model.
Yeah, probably too rich for my blood Raven. But I do love me some Mikal.
The problem with the Detroit model is that the 2004 Pistons (along with the 2004 Spurs) had the greatest team defense of the entire modern era. It’s not just that they had a bunch of non-elite players that fit well together. Ben Davis, Rasheed Wallace, and Tayshaun Prince were great defensive players. It’s not a model the 2024 Knicks are going to realistically replicate.
If you are trying to replicate a model that failed hundreds of times and succeeded once, the odds are that you will fail.
Especially because they were all using PEDs because I say so, even though I don’t have a shred of evidence…
Raven, I’m on board with your thought process here.
I would offer unprotected picks in 2024, 2026, 2028 and a pick swap in 2027 along with Barrett & either IQ or Grimes for Mikal.
Furthermore I’d consider it a steal.