[news.google.com] — Wednesday, July 5, 2023 7:10:07 AM
Paul George trade rumors: Knicks, Clippers talks shut down AMNY
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, July 5, 2023 4:33:00 AM
Former New York Knicks star advises NBA fans to play it safe in interesting thought experiment – “Take the $1 million” Sportskeeda
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, July 5, 2023 3:40:00 AM
NBA Rumors: New York Knicks reject Paul George trade due to player’s contract extension demand Sportskeeda
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, July 5, 2023 1:31:28 AM
Paul George Loses Interest From Knicks? RotoBaller
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 11:38:00 PM
A potential Paul George-to-Knicks trade now ‘off the table’ after star sought extension New York Post
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 11:09:31 PM
Knicks Shut Down Massive Trade With Clippers Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 9:37:01 PM
NBA Rumors: Why Milwaukee Bucks’ East Rivals Rejected … Wisconsin Sports Heroics
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 9:05:30 PM
New York Knicks Reportedly Interested In Boston Celtics Player Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 8:50:00 PM
Atlantic Notes: Punter, Fournier, Knicks, Nets, Lillard, Herro hoopsrumors.com
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 8:30:00 PM
NBA rumors: Celtics’ Grant Williams linked to Mavs, Knicks, 3 other teams ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 8:17:10 PM
This Knicks-Blazers Trade Features Damian Lillard NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 7:56:00 PM
Obi Toppin’s exit a reminder of Knicks’ string of NBA draft lottery failures New York Post
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 7:54:59 PM
Knicks Rumors: Paul George Trade ‘Off the Table’; Clippers Star Sought New Contract Bleacher Report
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 6:48:57 PM
NBA Trade Rumors: Celtics Seek 1st-Round Pick for Grant Williams; Knicks, More Linked Bleacher Report
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 6:30:27 PM
Knicks ‘Doing the Right Thing’ in Star Chasing: Insider Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 5:00:40 PM
Knicks fans will get to watch Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart play this … Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 11:38:00 AM
Knicks Summer League roster 2023: Details of players, coaches, schedule and more Sportskeeda
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 10:51:24 AM
Knicks are ‘ideal trade candidate’ if 76ers superstar demands trade Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 9:24:13 AM
New York Knicks insider has disappointing news about future roster moves this summer Sportsnaut
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 9:15:39 AM
Knicks: Why they can pull off Joel Embiid blockbuster trade and shock NBA world ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 8:09:47 AM
Jaylen Martin’s deal with the Knicks and more Summer League notes Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, July 4, 2023 8:00:28 AM
3 Backup power forward options Knicks can explore after Obi Toppin trade Daily KnicksObi Toppin’s exit a reminder of Knicks’ string of NBA draft lottery failures New York Post Report: Knicks trading Obi Toppin to Pacers NBA.com
112 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.07.05)”
Here’s Fred Katz also suggesting that something feels not right about this being the roster the Knicks would take into the season:
https://theathletic.com/4666789/2023/07/05/knicks-donte-divincenzo-signing/
Of particular note:
I think he’s right, Alan, i just don’t know if we’ll address it now or at the trade deadline. It’ll probably depend on the players that become available and at what cost.
I’d say Toronto is a team to watch closely.
Is OG one of the veterans, or one of the young players?
Yeah, I mentioned how PG13 fit the math of DDVs contract per Jeremy at KFS. Many of the articles above indicate that this was indeed a thing but was shut down because George is insisting on an extension. But beyond that, it seems incredibly obvious that more moves are coming. I’m guessing we’ll be hearing rumors all summer.
Good stuff, cyber! I wonder how much demand there would be for Siakam.
“Is OG one of the veterans, or one of the young players?”
Great question. You would think one of the young players, but he shot lights out after the ASB so it doesn’t make sense. My guess is that he is specifically referring to Scottie Barnes, maybe using the “young players” smokescreen to protect confidentiality. He was pretty bad after the break. Maybe Precious too?
Cyber, just FYI, Grimes was selected with the 25th pick in the 2021 draft by the Los Angeles Clippers and then traded to the New York Knicks, alongside a 2024 second-round draft pick, for Keon Johnson.
So where you put Grimes and IQ on the ‘good draft pick’ list is an interesting argument…
Okay, not that interesting. And like we need more of them. But an argument nonetheless.
Grant Williams would not be my thing. Too volatile.
I agree that more moves are coming. I just have no idea what those moves are. It’s both exciting and a bit scary.
Sure seems like there was some real smoke around them acquiring George. Worrisome. Luckily it sounds like he is making himself unacquirable with the extension request.
His positional utility makes sense, as does his grittiness, but I think I’d try to avoid guys who the Knicks’ rivals have so little interest in keeping. Also, there is no one in the rotation that I would trade for Grant Williams, so how are they getting him?
I guess the counter to this would be that we all agree George would be a fantastic basketball fit, but that his age, injury history, and potential contract demands make it incredibly risky. So the glass half full view is that the FO was doing its due diligence and seeing if it could acquire him for a relatively cheap asset package, and/or if they could do it without having to max him again after. And then when they found out what LAC management wanted back, and that George wanted to get paid again, they walked away.
That seems sensible to me. And reassuring in that they had a walk-away price. Which is a bit different from the Spida situation, where by all accounts they would have upped their bid if Ainge had given them a chance to do so.
And I say all of this as someone who is pretty skeptical of Leon’s overall team-building philosophy, even though he has unquestionably, significantly, improved the team since he arrived.
I sort of love George asking for an extension in any deal. Dude, you’re an injury prone 33 year old. Are you high?
“It’s both exciting and scary.”
The scary part for me is less about a bad move and more about losing a player that I really like. Even though I didn’t think Obi was all that good, I really liked him and it will hurt a bit to see him in a Pacers uniform.
Similarly, it would really suck for me to see IQ or Grimes go elsewhere.
With RJ it’s more about selling low…I don’t have a personal attachment to his game but I think he will make somewhat of a jump next year.
I’m not as attached to Mitch as his stans here, although he’s pretty endearing in a goofy way. And he’s not going anywhere short of a trade for Embiid or Giannis.
No real attachment to Randle either, but I believe his raw production and gravity would be harder to replace than others here think. He’s not going anywhere.
I don’t think that iHart, JHart or DDV are being traded so not even thinking about it.
I love Deuce and Sims, but whatever.
The problem is, that ideal just isn’t available… I suppose because it’s too valuable.
Obviously, a great 2-way wing under 30 is what you want, so that leaves OG, who’s price will be astronomical, and LaVine, who maybe isn’t good enough and maybe doesn’t even want to come here.
I’m glad we passed on PG, and I really don’t want to max Brown, but who else is there? We might be rooting for RJ to improve by default this year.
And yes, Alan, it’s definitely better than the Spida negotiations, but I don’t want any part of PG13 here for the amount it would take to get him, extension or not. He’s just too fragile.
Mitch’s decreasing contract probably makes him second only to Brunson in terms of job security.
“That seems sensible to me. And reassuring in that they had a walk-away price. Which is a bit different from the Spida situation, where by all accounts they would have upped their bid if Ainge had given them a chance to do so.”
I can’t emphasize enough how much that whole negotiation rattled me. Not sure if Leon learned anything from it, but sure hope he did. I don’t think PG13 is a good test because of the many question marks about him. With Spida you were talking about a healthy player in his early prime on a moderate contract…it was more about the fit (bad) and the price (way too high). So someone like OG might be a better test…he a young, healthy player who is a better fit but maybe not with as much upside as his price would suggest. If they outbid teams and meet the high price that Masai will surely demand, that will definitely bug me.
LOL! He must love the Clippers! 😉
it wouldn’t… trading any non-brunson … non-randle version for a guy who needs more minutes.. makes this minutes crunch worse not better…. and you may have a situation where that’s not such a big deal…. like if it’s giannis…
but if it’s OG? OG plays 35mpg in toronto… are you swapping him for IQ straight up? that creates a rather large gap in backup pg AND need to squeeze him in with RJ.. hart.. grimes.. donte… that’s probably untenable… if it’s for RJ.. that could work but again.. he’s going to need more minutes than RJ and everyone gets squeezed a bit more… similar thing happens if it’s Derozan for RJ or anything similar…
which is why it probably needs to be a 2 for 2 or 2 for 1… IQ + Grimes or RJ + Grimes for OG/Derozan/Lavine or whoever… 1 for 1 doesn’t change the context one bit…. unless it’s RJ for like PJ Tucker…
Jaylen Brown is almost certainly not going to be available to us unless we offer everything but the kitchen sink, which would be monumentally stupid and put a hard ceiling on this franchise for years. As with overpaying for Spida, that would permanently sour me on the Leon regime.
Siakam’s heavily rumored to ATL right now which is very interesting… i’d have to think it’s for murray since an all-in is rather risky if murray leaves….
it also looks like Harden is staying despite the trade demands… or Morey is really trying to get squeeze something out of this… and coupled with Dame… it’s interesting that teams are pushing back a bit on these trade demands now as they should….
Not sure I would call him healthy, even if he’s healthier than George. The only time in his career he’s played over 70 games was his rookie year. Played 67 this past season and only 48 and 43 in the two before that. (Though 2020-21 was still an unusual season in terms of number of overall games.)
One guy that might make sense for us is Precious Achiuwa….
Harden is in an unusual situation. He obviously is not the same asset he was when he dogged his way out of Houston, so I think there is a legit chance Philly just keeps him and hopes he has to ball out to get a big new contract, and then they’d have his and Tobias Harris’ money to get a free agent next offseason.
I agree. The situation was starting to get out of control. Harden changes teams every offseason now, and after the team traded a lot of assets to get him. It’s good that Morey is putting some “cold water”. And also the Blazers can’t work with a shortlist of only one team. I’m not against players being able to get out of bad situations, but this needs a middle of the bridge solution because right now we’re completely on the player’s side.
One thing we should keep in mind is that Thibs and the front office may not be sure which of our young players out of RJ, Quickley and Grimes they actually want to keep. They only know what they’ve seen so far and which players other teams are most interested in.
They might decide to go into the season like this, keep Fournier for a few months more, get a better gauge on how much those guys have improved based on the first few months of the season, and then make a big push at the trade deadline.
I’m not a fan of the George move despite it being a perfect basketball fit because I want to continue building both short and long term. That would generally cap the age limit to the upper 20s for me. IMO, he’d give us too small a window to some level of contention assuming he even remains healthy for the playoffs, which is probably only 50-50. Throw an extension on it and it’s a firing offense.
I’d only be willing to take on an older player for a backup position. I’d still be in favor of adding Gallinari as the backup PF. It would be a popular move and he’d add desperately needed spacing. If they wind up moving Fournier to open cap space and Gallo gets bought out, they should consider that reunion.
If they do an OG trade, I think RJ has to be in it.
The bigger question is whether it includes Quickley, Grimes, or an increased pick count.
No matter how you slice it, it’s a risky trade because as everyone knows, I think Quickley’s contribution to winning is very underrated (he’s also a key backup PG) and think Grimes may not have even scratched the surface of the kind of two way player he can become. I’d way rather give up an extra 1st round pick.
An OG trade simultaneously solves the length issue at wing, the backup PF issue, improves the spacing, and improves the defense and defensively versatility.
He has also said he wants a bigger role in the play making and scoring. So taking RJ’s slot would be even more perfect in terms of what he’s looking for and our need for more efficient usage if RJ goes.
It’s almost too perfect.
Just the price and maybe some secondary concerns about injuries are question marks. I haven’t followed the details closely enough to know the types of injuries he’s had, but I don’t think anything serious.
After careful consideration, I am more than ok with grabbing Bol and letting him force his way into the rotation. If he doesn’t play, it’ll just be par for the course for him. But if he plays well, it opens up frontcourt options moving forward. IE: including Hartenstein in a deal for an impact player as a sweetener if necessary.
Just based on injury risk, Bol Bol should not be counted on for any serious role beyond emergency backup on a minimum deal. But I’d love to have him in that role.
Was nice of Fred to throw some kerosene on the Knickerblogger fire of the week!
In all seriousness, between the Hart trade and the DDV signing a signal is being sent, either intentionally or by happenstance, that RJ Barrett does not have a birthright to 34 minutes every night.
I view that as a very positive development. There’s no reason to think he’ll improve if given 34 minutes every night, but the Knicks are failing him by asking him to do it in ~28 minutes instead. If there is a real minutes reduction and he continues to stagnate I’m sure that’ll be pointed to as the reason by his most ardent supporters, but that’s nonsense. He can earn his way back to 34.
I’m excited by the prospect of RJ and Hart getting substantial minutes at the 4. We haven’t had a real small ball 4 since, well, Melo, and I’m not particularly worried about those guys getting beaten up by the other backup 4s they’ll be playing against.
Melo had a legitimate size and strength advantage against most SFs and was suited to defend PFs.
Our SFs are undersized at that position and we’ll be putting them at PF. We’ll be playing miniature ball. It will work on most nights against most matchups, but it won’t work if Randle is hurt or in the playoffs against some matchups. IMO we need someone with size as a backup for those occasions. I don’t think Simms is the answer, especially with our Cs and spacing issues.
Randle is a horse. If he’s demonstrated any ability in the league it’s AVAILABILITY. And he’s still pretty young. I wouldn’t bet on him getting hurt. If it happens, we’ll try small ball. If that can’t sustain until Julius is healthier, we can sign someone or we’d have the pieces to make a move then. You talk about wishcasting, but isn’t it possible that you’re doomcasting?
Randle missing time is the scenario that makes the Obi trade really hurt. I don’t think his 12 minute stints swung many games, but patching together a full 48 is a lot harder. Having Obi was a great luxury for those (few) games.
It’s still hard for me to believe we won’t sign a generic 4 who will take a minimum or close to it for that reason. Roby just does not really do what we want from that slot (shoot 3s, primarily).
Strat, I appreciate your loyalty, but Gallo is now just a larger version of Fournier, in that he can shoot threes but can’t defend a lamp post. He’d play exactly never under Thibs.
But I’m with Strat over Noble re small ball — Carmelo was 6’7″ and 235. And strong as an ox. I love me some Hart and he’s strong, but he’s 6’4″ (or 6’5″ depending on who you ask) and 215.
And BJ, wasn’t Julius hurt throughout much of the playoffs? He played, which was gritty and good for him I guess, but he’s clearly not indestructible.
VanVleet and Siakam weren’t
exactly non-frustrating themselves, as they tended to draw iron on an inordinate amount of shots as well. Lead by example maybe?
We could always do something depressing, like trading for Kuzma to balance the roster
As it stands now, if Julius goes down, RJ might be the choice there against most lineups, with Sims slotting in vs. twin towers.
I think you could consider that Roby could be a generic four who gets close to minimum salary, but if you want someone better at threes, that sounds like Niang. But Niang just got a three year contract for more than $8M per year. So I’m not sure your minimum wage generic four who shoots threes really exists.
Dario Saric has shot 36% on 1,548 career threes and I don’t think he’s getting anything more than a minimum this offseason. I kind of like that idea. He’s an extra year removed from an ACL tear and still only 29.
He’s probably completely cooked at this point, but there’s some upside on a minimum deal.
I’m going to presume that any sort of issue at the PF spot is about the single best problem for this kind of team to have. We are huge at the C and have several excellent rebounding and defending guards to choose from. You don’t need a versatile player there, just a reasonably good defender who can run the floor and score in some way. There will always be a vet’s minimum guy available for that role. And let’s face it, if Julius goes down for an extended period, the size issue will be the least of our problems.
His name is Yuta.
Finding a guy who is both, at least as good as Niang and who is fine with being situational at a minimum salary is impossible. Every team in the NBA has the grapple with that possibility at some position or other. For now, we have Sims and Roby to hold the fort. If something better doesn’t come along, I wouldn’t be surprised if Taj is the guy.
“So I’m not sure your minimum wage generic four who shoots threes really exists.”
I hear that some guy named Obadiah shot 34.4% from three last year and has gotten better from there every year…
Kidding, of course. Sob. Actually Saric or Yuta would have been interesting choices. Yuta got picked up though, right?
Saric is a reasonable suggestion. But he’s not that different from Roby in many stats. Career three point shooting is 0.351 versus 0.360, for example. Saric is favored in some of the advanced stats but I can’t tell why given that the base stats are so close to each other. See
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=saricda01&player_id1=robyis01&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=robyis01
I wish we had more length on defense. These small ball lineups are great to have as an option, but it’d be nice to have some versatility and to be able to throw some long and athletic lineups out there. We still don’t have that big defensive wing we’ve been pining for.
I would agree that a longer wing is ultimately more of a need than a backup PF. A 6’8″ combo forward would solve both of those problems, I suppose. But as of now, we’re going to have three guys in the rotation who are taller than 6’6″, and potentially only Jericho Sims as the only end of bencher taller than 6’6″.
Tuts shoots threes better than Roby but is worse at other things. Overall, he doesn’t stand out as better than Roby
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=watanyu01&player_id1=robyis01&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=robyis01
Note that I am judging by stats that are mostly offense. I don’t know how any of the three guys does on defense.
Roby has shot 35% on 268 threes, mostly buoyed by a 44/99 year that looks anomalous. His FT% is .675 and he wasn’t much of a shooter in college.
I trust Saric much more to stand in the corner.
the backup pf spot is what it is… at this point there aren’t going to be good solutions other than ’emergency break glass’ type of guys which i guess deuce is now (i hope)…. they’re not going to be impactful when they do see the floor either…
i mean you could try to dangle a 2nd for mike muscala or send out fournier for olynyk if you’re really super worried about it…. but they’re probably not gonna play or it will cost someone even more serious play time so i don’t even see the point of that…. if randle does go down for a significant part of the year i imagine they’ll just make the trade then… no use in doing it now…
but maybe jacob toppin has us covered….
One thing I have a hard time judging is how the Knicks offensive system affects three point shooting percentages. One always thinks of something like the Warrior’s system as good for threes because of all the motion. But on the Knicks if the threes aren’t coming from Randle, Brunson or RJ, they are often coming from kick outs when one of those three drives. Those should be relatively easy threes and might help our role players have a better shooting percentage. This might have helped Josh Hart shoot as well as he did from three after he was traded from Portland. If this is the case, Roby might do better than you think.
Even though he’s a vets min guy right now, my guess is that Saric will sign with the winning team that gives him the best chance to play….and that’s not here with Thibs. Most likely he ends up with GSW or MIA once the dust clears with Lillard.
Roby is more of a youngish project and is better suited for a mostly DNP-CD role. If you need more of.a vet, Taj is probably the guy for now if he’s willing to come here.
TNFH, you could be right about Saric versus Roby. But the sample sizes for all three seasons Roby were pretty small so I picked his career shooting percentage instead of say, his most recent season (where he only shot 60 threes total)
“The Knicks have built packages around their promising young players to target prime-aged veterans they believe would help the current roster.”
Why would the Knicks be building packages around any non-RJ young players if the goal is to compete for a championship in the near future? I thought the purpose of trading out of drafts for future picks was to have a big enough war chest to make a trade like this without giving up any of their talented young guys. The development of IQ and Grimes offers one of the few avenues for improvement now that the team has not drafted anyone in the 1st round for three straight years.
To me, it seems like all of these heavily protected 1sts Leon has acquired do not have much value with other GMs. If teams would rather have IQ and/or Grimes instead of some combination of the WAS, DAL, DET, or MIL picks, then what was the point of all this? Even worse, I imagine a bunch of those picks would also be leaving in the event of a consolidation trade that includes IQ/Grimes, meaning that the picks were assessed more as throw-ins than something other teams actually valued.
I still got some patience for whatever Leon’s plan is, but I’m feeling like he did not do a good job getting ‘fair’ future value for the present value given up in these 1st round trade-outs. If getting future unprotected picks was never on the table, it was probably a better idea to just draft guys instead of getting all of these heavily protected 1sts.
“Why would the Knicks be building packages around any non-RJ young players if the goal is to compete for a championship in the near future? I thought the purpose of trading out of drafts for future picks was to have a big enough war chest to make a trade like this without giving up any of their talented young guys. The development of IQ and Grimes offers one of the few avenues for improvement now that the team has not drafted anyone in the 1st round for three straight years.”
I don’t think a scenario exists where a trade for a top-30ish star could be made without involving at least two of RJ, IQ, Mitch or Grimes. Look at what the Suns just gave up for 34yo Kevin Durant…and you could argue that each of Mikal and Cam was worth more than any of those guys, and together they were worth more than all four put together.
It’s a question of what is left AFTER you give up those guys. That’s where picking up JHart and DDV come in…they provide quality depth in the case that you have to ship out young guys to get back an alpha.
my big take away from today’s thread – we are 100% getting pascal siakam to come play at the 3 for us…
and to that – hell yeah!!!
i get it, totally, but – julius didn’t seem to be jumping around for rebounds with the same sort of enthusiasm after the initial injury, the second one he was really cautious afterwards…
i imagine the worry of landing on someone’s foot may stick with him for a while…
I am the only one who would find it mighty bleak if we traded IQ, Grimes, and RJ for a “Star”. It would leave us with one rotation player we drafted and turn our team from a promising one with many players under 24 to one that while probably better isn’t particularly young at all.
At that point why am I even rooting for the Knicks? Is it really just the laundry and any bum wearing the jersey is fungible as long as we are winning?
well ben r., that just sorta put a damper on my pascal wishcasting…
okay, i’m telling myself it’ll only be two we lose and one of them will most certainly be RJ…
i get your point though…
maybe the rooting for laundry feeling only really comes from when your team stinks…
if they’re good, and likeable, maybe the odor is not so bad…
if it got us to the finals – yeah, i like brunson, julius, ihart, hart – whoever the heck else is still here, enough to not get too upset about mitch being the last knick draftee left…
“At that point why am I even rooting for the Knicks? Is it really just the laundry and any bum wearing the jersey is fungible as long as we are winning?”
I mean, to each his own. Given that we haven’t won a title in 50 years, I could live with it happening without a single draftee on the roster. My guess is that you are among a tiny minority to feel differently.
PS Brunson is more fun for me to root for than any Knick drafted since the Ewing era. (Sorry, Owen!)
It’s hard to disagree on the Thibs part.
Z-Man, it’s funny that there are some players that can show up in a trade and become instant Knicks Forever (as long as they last anyway) — like Brunson or JHart. Then there are players who are on the Knicks but aren’t (yet) fully Knicksified — I’d maybe put iHart on that list, although he could win my h(e)art eventually.
Don’t know how I’d feel about Kawhi or Harden or KD or Kyrie. Fun as hell to watch (well, maybe not Harden), but I’d feel a little dirty rooting for h(e)artless mercenaries who might be here today, gone tomorrow.
Plus they’re asshats, which also impacts the root factor.
The fan experience is much better when the players are rootable obviously, but to me a guy being a draftee is just one factor in rootability.
There are non-draftees I’ve loved like Spree, Novak, JR, Brunson, and Hart just off the top of my head, and draftees I didn’t particularly care for like Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, and to be quite honest RJ Barrett.
So I don’t know how I’d feel about a full on mercenary contender like the Nets were supposed to be, but I’d be fine with a relative lack of draftees as long as the players were rootable in general.
Of course, it’s great when a someone is both a draftee and very rootable. That’s how I feel about IQ and Mitch. It would be hard for me to come to terms with even an objectively good trade involving them.
Yeah, that’s the key for me. Not to an extreme, but certainly to where I’d much rather keep our young guys at the expense of wins. No way I want to root for James Harden or Kyrie Irving. But I’d be thrilled to root for Giannis or Jokic even at the expense of all of our young players and the next 5 years of picks.
There are some guys I don’t mind having but wouldn’t want to give up our own guys for…DRose was an example, he’s polarizing but I was fine with him. And lateral moves/minor upgrades bug me when they involve promising draftees. I would have been fine with the Melo deal if it was for fewer pieces…but would have much preferred to keep the young core intact. Still, it’s a business and at the end of the day, I truly root for the laundry. And this particular iteration of the laundry is just fine by me!
Talking about undersized PF’s made me think about how the hell LJ was able to post up PJ Brown and the Davis boys. Wish we had LJ in his physical prime but he did an admiral job adjusting his game when he lost his athleticism.
@raven
That’s kind of my point…
Whether Julius should play or not, he WILL play. And if he says he’s not hurt Thibs will play him… So this handwringing about Randle missing significant time doesn’t hold water for me.
The smalls have a “minutes crunch” that is somehow an insurmountable problem that we can’t stop talking about. But if we had a PF who was capable of filling Julius’s role if he’s out for the season, wouldn’t that guy also be “minutes crunched”? I get that there’s not much going on, but this isn’t worth the digital ink we’re spilling on it.
He had his detractors but my favorite non drafted Knick back in the day was Allan Houston.
It’s also a matter of “why” a particular guy was acquired. Guys like Alec Burks or Marcus Morris or Reggie Bullock came across as short-term mercs, so it was hard to warm up to them. I would probably have liked Fournier more if the team played better with him on the floor, especially the way he played against the Celts in those two monster wins in 2021-22, but he also seemed like a merc even with the longer deal. I guess when you win with the guys you bring on it makes it easier to warm up to them…if Josh Hart didn’t dazzle like he did way above his expected stats and we lost in the play-in I wouldn’t love him as much as I do. iHart is sort of a short-term merc but he’s young and we won with him playing a signicant role so I like him now a lot more than I did for the first half of the season when he was hurt and hope we find a way to keep him.
We (here) seem to be trying to find ways to operate with a roster that’s not balanced in size or spacing.
The idea is to build the best possible team with a balanced versatile attack that can also match up with the opposition regardless of whether they are big, small, play fast, or play half court or can do both.
This roster needs another significant move either now or at the deadline, not a spreadsheet with minutes allocations.
Another angle is when you trade away guys you drafted that became superstars for young promising players, like the Jazz did. My guess is that everyone in Utah is happy with what Ainge pulled off…
Initially, I tend to root for guys we drafted over guys we traded for or signed at free agents. The draftees feel more like real Knicks. But once some time has passed the others slowly become Knicks and I root for them equally.
You don’t say. Shocker.
TNFH, is it fair to say that you don’t dislike RJ, Knox, and Frank as much as you think they stink as basketball players, and therefore have no interest in keeping them? In other words, if RJ played great next season, would you feel differently about him?
Whose love is stronger, ruru for Melo or E for RJ?
Yeah I have nothing against any of those guys, they just gave/have given me no reason get affirmatively attached. That’s always subject to change.
I will say I don’t find RJ’s game very aesthetically pleasing, results aside, though the results of course factor heavily into the lack of aesthetics. I’m sure I could get much more on board with it if more of the shots went in.
I rooted hard for Frank because he was a little hustlebunny who tried hard on defense and was somewhat charming in his great fear of shooting.
I did not root hard for Kevin because he was bad and never appeared to have a chance to be good, so why bother investing.
I have stopped rooting for RJ because he not only is terrible at basketball with little sign of improvement but also seems to have an attitude that he’s to be respected and beloved despite being terrible at basketball.
If RJ is still with the team next year and makes something of a leap I will root for him (and hope like hell he drops the attitude).
RJ has an ugly game and even uglier advanced stats, but I have to say, when he gets it going, I get more pumped up than by any other Knick—not sure why. I felt euphoric during that Boston game he won us single-handedly.
I wonder what the asking price is for Anunoby.
He’s a stopper on defense at the most important position (ie. can guard 2-4 extremely well). He’s an event creator on defense with 3.6 deflections/36 (in comparison, Cam/McBride led the Knicks with 2.7/36. Quickley was at 2, Gimes 1.6, RJ at 0.8) and the led the league in steals. He’s a very good on-ball defender and a decent rebounder.
He’s shot 37.5% from 3, and while RJ probably has more passing chops, it hasn’t been borne out in actual production — RJ averaging 3 assists/36 and OG averaging 2.33 per 36 the last 4 seasons. He doesn’t get to the line much, but he is so much more efficient than RJ when he actually shoots the ball that his career TS is 58 whereas RJ’s is a eye-gouging 51.
I am imagining how unpleasant it would be to play against a defense that can throw Grimes/DDV/OG/Josh Hart at teams with Mitch on the back line.
It is true we would lose some degree of shot creation if RJ leaves, but if the shots created are at a TS of, say, 54 and a usage of 25, is that a good thing?
The shot creation worry would go away if Thibs just subbed Julius out at 6 minutes while Brunson is still in, then have Julius play the lead ballhandler with the 2nd unit like he was doing with RJ.
I wonder how much Masai is actually asking … OG has 1 year left on his deal, and now that he’s in the CAA stable, OG can just tell Masai and any teams thinking of trading for him that he’s opting out no matter what. Masai already lost FVV for nothing… does he want to do that with OG also?
Grant Williams is available, if we sent Fournier and our worst protected 1st for him (Washington’s?) would that make the backup PF drum beaters happy?
Probably not since he’s not really worth the 1st, but at least he’s young I guess.
All I really want from the rest of this off-season is a Quickley extension.
An IQ extension would make me feel better. I think that is what worries me most about the Donte signing. I am worried that Donte in Leon’s mind makes IQ expendable.
For me, if Donte is willing to come in and be the 9th man and play 10-15 a game when everyone is healthy he is a good signing, expensive, but still solid. If he wants, gets, or expects more that’s when the signing gets problematic.
At the end of the day if IQ and Grimes continue to get 30 minutes a game then the Donte signing is fine, if he jeopardizes that then it was bad.
Thibs doesn’t really like IQ all that much.
OG could be available at the deadline for cheap if the Raptors flop again
With Poeltl on board they probably try and run it back
Their 3p% are similar but Saric takes more 3s per 36, which is relevant to shooting skill.
You might think of Josh Hart as an extreme example who shoots well but infrequently and doesn’t get guarded. He shoots 35% on a career 4.8 attempts per 36.
Roby only takes 3.4 attempts per 36.
trading a 1st for grant williams would be the chatgpt version of a leon rose move… and then trading donte for a couple 2nds because you now don’t have enough minutes to play him would be the actual leon rose-y move….
Lol at the idea that Thibs doesn’t like IQ. He played him a ton of minutes last season, started him when Brunson was hurt and used him in closing lineups of close games throughout the season. Thibs loves IQ.
DJphan – the leon rosiest move would be IQ for a couple 2nds, not Donte.
there is ZERO chance of this happening outside of an injury…..
EPM has Roby in the 2nd percentile of players last year and some of the season review entries from OKC blogs think he’s a tweener defensively.
DARKO & LEBRON are higher on his defense, and he was definitely better the year before, but he’s not a stopper.
(BTW, DARKO estimates his 3p shooting talent at 32.3% & Saric is at 34.4% fwiw)
He’s got some interesting tools but the Knicks are counting on some late development or must see something fixable in Roby. He’s not a guy to rely on based on his past numbers.
The Knicks are NOT signing Grant Williams. Not even worth discussing.
As to IQ, I agree that the DDV trade makes him somewhat vulnerable to being traded. But my guess is that it would be for a much better player. At the end of the day, IQ wants to be a starter, and that’s unlikely to happen here. And like Mikal Bridges and Marcus Smart, he’s exactly the kind of player you have to part with if you are going for a superstar, or a player tike OG that is a consummate glue guy at the most costly position that you don’t already have filled. Most GMs know what we know…that IQ is more valuable than either RJ or Grimes. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t part of any major trade in the next year or two.
There was once a time when games were only broadcast in a local media market, and teams had to take commuter planes to far off places like “Seattle” and “Vancouver”, and newspapers stopped printing at 9pm before games were even completed. So I get rooting for the laundry back then. We were married to our geography. There was just no way to follow your favorite player once he was traded to the Clippers (yes, I was a big Mark Jackson fan once.)
But in today’s world, it baffles me why some of you guys don’t just root for organizations that actually do the things you wish the Knicks would do. They’re out there!
Signing Poeltl back was a bit sobering about our potential to trade for OG.
It doesn’t sound like Masai is blowing everything up. I saw one quote where he said despite their disappointing season he didn’t think the team was that far behind a team like Miami. It sounded more like a retool where he’ll bring back the players he likes on fair contracts and either trade or let others walk.
Our best chance for OG is probably if he wants out or is asking for a huge deal that Masai doesn’t want to give him. I know OG has been saying he wants a bigger role both as a scorer and playmaker. Masai may see OG and Barnes as similar enough to only need one of them and trade OG to upgrade another position and gets some picks. That’s why I’m worried about Quickley. Masai may see Quickley as a replacement for VanVleet. He’s younger, will be cheaper, and will satisfy some of the locker room issues they apparently had with VanVleet and Siacam not being happy.
Rose may see DDV as cheaper replacement for Quickley and be OK with moving him just to get OG. I’m against moving Quickley. That trade would be love hate for me.
“But in today’s world”
I will be following the Pacers (heresy!) next year, at least until they shelve Obi.
Do you realize they have nobody taller than 6’9″ on the team? There’s a destination for Bol Bol Bol.
But they do have a rookie from Australia named Mohave King.
Grant Williams seems fine as a backup pf, he defends and can shoot the three reasonably well. Of course, it all depends on the price…
I like the Grant Williams suggestion, but mostly because I’m betting other people think he’s taller than RJ
We’re fine with a 6’6″ PF
Maybe it’s because they are the same height, the same weight, they both come via the Celtics, and they have faces that look almost exactly alike, but something about Grant Williams gives me Chris Mills chills.
It could be because they are both Scorpios.
Mavs landed Grant Williams by trading Bullock and an unprotected 2030 swap to the Spurs and some seconds to the Celtics.
Rough return for the Celtics, great business by the Spurs, and man, the Mavs better hope this iteration for the team works out.
ESPN: “Magic move Parker to GM, replacing Hammond”
First thought was good for Candace, but poor Becky hardly had a shot…
Celtics saved a fortune and got something for a player they weren’t bringing back.
Spurs got some picks and will flip Bullock for more picks later.
Mavs are overrating and overpaying Grant Williams.
Can we now see why that whole Grant Williams convo was silly?
Celtics currently worse than last year and still haven’t brought back Jaylen Brown.
The Celtics are going to bring back Jaylen Brown. I don’t see how you can say they are worse than last year when they added KP for Marcus Smart. They are just different. They’ll be way better on offense and slip a bit on defense without Smart, but I don’t think they are done making moves. Grant Williams was close to irrelevant for them in terms of winning games.
Revised the question, whose love is stronger: ruru for Melo, E for RJ or Strat for KP and Frank : – )
Real question, if all the GMs know that IQ is better than RJ and Grimes then why aren’t we just keeping the better player?
Why must we trade him? Why not actually keep a young, talented two-way player? Like Dink_Jr said earlier why did we trade out of the last 3 drafts to accumulate extra draft capital if we still need to move our best young player to facilitate a trade?
Miami is going to get Dame and they not only didn’t accumulate future picks they also are missing a couple of their own.
Either all this draft capital means we get to write the terms of our trade and keep promising young players or it was a waste of time and we are short rookies in three consecutive drafts for nothing.
Ruru for sure, BBA. He came here ugly because of Melo and kept preaching about gravity till the day he was traded.
Though I wonder if Strat has been posting on Mavs boards the last few years…
Different approaches. Ruru had an axe to grind and was going to grind it even if it took off his own leg. Strat just fell in love with two players, which makes him something of the ultimate fan. One has to appreciate his commitment, even if it was toward the wrong choices.
One of my very favorite parts of Knickerblogger is when someone starts posting just how absolutely terrible RJ is in terms of all the varying statistical evidence, and E weirdly goes dark. Sort of like when he is silent during win streaks during the season. Which says all there needs to be said about that troll.
For all the dog lovers out there, my beloved 15 yo pet is in decline, very difficult to deal with..
Everything Ruru said was proven wrong yet he never changed his position. He was like the anti-Covid vaccine guys that told me that I’d be dead in two years if I took it. It’s been two years and I’m still alive and yet they still won’t admit they were wrong.
Further to the Grant Williams trade:
Seems like a few teams w front office stability (San Antonio, OKC, etc.) have discovered they can exploit other team’s impatience by trading for draft pics far into the future.
My favorite moment with ruru will always be the time he told me I wasn’t qualified to talk about basketball because I thought that Andrea Bargnani sucked
Lol JK
Would we rather have Grant Williams or DDV? I’m guessing they’ll be about the same price. Ship has sailed, obviously, just something I’ve been wondering.