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Knicks Morning News (2023.04.08)

  • New York Knicks: 5 offseason targets to make jump to contender status – Sir Charles in Charge
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, April 8, 2023 6:30:00 AM

    New York Knicks: 5 offseason targets to make jump to contender status  Sir Charles in Charge

  • Cavs coach J.B. Bickerstaff has a ‘ton of respect’ for New York Knicks, believes playoff series will bring ou – cleveland.com
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, April 8, 2023 5:00:00 AM

    Cavs coach J.B. Bickerstaff has a ‘ton of respect’ for New York Knicks, believes playoff series will bring ou  cleveland.com

  • Mark Cuban Says Mavs Lost Jalen Brunson to Knicks ‘When the Parents Got Involved’ – Bleacher Report
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, April 8, 2023 4:47:07 AM

    Mark Cuban Says Mavs Lost Jalen Brunson to Knicks ‘When the Parents Got Involved’  Bleacher Report

  • Knicks’ pick in jeopardy after Mavericks eliminated from playoff contention – Yahoo Sports
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, April 8, 2023 12:54:00 AM

    Knicks’ pick in jeopardy after Mavericks eliminated from playoff contention  Yahoo Sports

  • Knicks may now lose Mavericks pick from Kristaps Porzingis trade – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Saturday, April 8, 2023 12:02:00 AM

    Knicks may now lose Mavericks pick from Kristaps Porzingis trade  New York Post

  • Knicks vs. Pelicans – NBA Game Recap – April 7, 2023 – ESPN
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 11:47:38 PM

    Knicks vs. Pelicans – NBA Game Recap – April 7, 2023  ESPN

  • Photos: Pelicans top Knicks 113-105 in last home game of regular … – NOLA.com
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 11:39:10 PM

    Photos: Pelicans top Knicks 113-105 in last home game of regular …  NOLA.com

  • Damian Lillard backs Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley for Sixth Man – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 11:14:00 PM

    Damian Lillard backs Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley for Sixth Man  ClutchPoints

  • Knicks on the Court: April 7 at Pelicans Photo Gallery – NBA.com
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 10:51:17 PM

    Knicks on the Court: April 7 at Pelicans Photo Gallery  NBA.com

  • Knicks fall to Pelicans to end five-game winning streak with stars resting – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 10:35:00 PM

    Knicks fall to Pelicans to end five-game winning streak with stars resting  New York Post Pelicans 113, Knicks 105: Scenes from whatevs  Posting and ToastingNew York Knicks at New Orleans Pelicans odds, picks and predictions  USA TODAY Sportsbook Wire

  • New Orleans 113, N.Y. Knicks 105 – Middletown Press
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 10:32:19 PM

    New Orleans 113, N.Y. Knicks 105  Middletown Press

  • Pel No! Knicks’ Respectable Effort Falls Short in NOLA – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 10:22:47 PM

    Pel No! Knicks’ Respectable Effort Falls Short in NOLA  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks at Pelicans: RJ Barrett Returns to Starting Lineup – Yardbarker
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 8:50:53 PM

    Knicks at Pelicans: RJ Barrett Returns to Starting Lineup  Yardbarker

  • Knicks starting Isaiah Hartenstein at center for Mitchell Robinson (rest) on Friday – numberFire
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 7:49:00 PM

    Knicks starting Isaiah Hartenstein at center for Mitchell Robinson (rest) on Friday  numberFire

  • Josh Hart playing with Knicks’ second unit on Friday night – numberFire
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 7:40:00 PM

    Josh Hart playing with Knicks’ second unit on Friday night  numberFire

  • Jalen Brunson’s Leap As A Scorer Makes The Knicks Dangerous – UPROXX
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 7:31:59 PM

    Jalen Brunson’s Leap As A Scorer Makes The Knicks Dangerous  UPROXX

  • Kris Jenkins calls out Mark Cuban for ‘sick’ Jalen Brunson accusation – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 5:40:00 PM

    Kris Jenkins calls out Mark Cuban for ‘sick’ Jalen Brunson accusation  New York Post

  • Knicks reporter responds to rumors about Carmelo Anthony – Larry Brown Sports
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 5:22:19 PM

    Knicks reporter responds to rumors about Carmelo Anthony  Larry Brown Sports

  • Cuban’s Revenge? Resting Mavericks Toy With Knicks’ Draft Pick – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 4:54:52 PM

    Cuban’s Revenge? Resting Mavericks Toy With Knicks’ Draft Pick  Sports Illustrated

  • NBA: New Orleans Pelicans at New York Knicks | NBA Basketball … – 69News WFMZ-TV
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 4:22:06 PM

    NBA: New Orleans Pelicans at New York Knicks | NBA Basketball …  69News WFMZ-TV

  • New Orleans Pelicans vs. New York Knicks: How to watch online, live stream info, start time, TV channel – CBS Sports
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 4:00:33 PM

    New Orleans Pelicans vs. New York Knicks: How to watch online, live stream info, start time, TV channel  CBS Sports

  • Mitchell Robinson Joins Growing List of Resting Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 3:36:18 PM

    Mitchell Robinson Joins Growing List of Resting Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • Coach Thibs Proud of Young Knicks Energy vs Pacers | New York Knicks – Heavy.com
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 3:23:22 PM

    Coach Thibs Proud of Young Knicks Energy vs Pacers | New York Knicks  Heavy.com

  • Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley gains huge compliment from Damian Lillard – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 2:34:43 PM

    Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley gains huge compliment from Damian Lillard  Empire Sports Media

  • Mavericks resting key players in must-win game signals bad news for Knicks – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 12:35:51 PM

    Mavericks resting key players in must-win game signals bad news for Knicks  New York Post

  • Vibes are off with Brunson, Knicks – Deadspin
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 11:19:00 AM

    Vibes are off with Brunson, Knicks  Deadspin

  • Knicks’ Quentin Grimes sounds off on defending Cavs star Donovan … – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 11:12:30 AM

    Knicks’ Quentin Grimes sounds off on defending Cavs star Donovan …  ClutchPoints

  • Comparing this season’s Knicks rotation to 2020-21 – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 9:28:56 AM

    Comparing this season’s Knicks rotation to 2020-21  Posting and Toasting

  • Is Zion Williamson Playing Tonight vs Knicks?: Pelicans’ David Griffin Delivers Latest Update on Franchise Star – The Sportsrush
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 8:37:54 AM

    Is Zion Williamson Playing Tonight vs Knicks?: Pelicans’ David Griffin Delivers Latest Update on Franchise Star  The Sportsrush

  • 6 All-Stars the Knicks painfully passed on in the NBA Draft – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Friday, April 7, 2023 8:00:00 AM

    6 All-Stars the Knicks painfully passed on in the NBA Draft  Daily Knicks

  • 76 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.04.08)”

    the dream of (trading) the 11th pick is
    not dead, but it’s moribound. i can come to terms with its demise, considering that it comes with luka and kyrie sitting in cabo and watch no less than two ja()len williamses start a play-in game.

    what i cannot under any circumstances stomach is seeing us meet a toothless first round gentleman’s sweep type exit followed
    by dallas waking up a minute later with the wemby horseshoe up their ass. or even any of the top four to use in a trade.

    Well, my prediction that we’ll have the pick took a serious hit, but i’m still standing, so… 😛 Good luck for them trying to lose against the Spurs! And i sure hope Bulls and Thunder lose, and then don’t make the playoffs. When they’ll be tied with other 2 teams for a coin toss that they must win to keep the pick, the odds won’t be so great. Go Spuuuurs! Well, it’s the opposite… No-Go Spurs! 😀

    They’ll never do it (small market teams will always vote against) but they really need to stop rewarding losing.
    This last few days of “play” have been a sad joke.

    “Pure” lottery, trash the reverse standings and lottery odds, equal chances for everyone.

    Or if it’s too drastic, “reverse the reverse” standings and reward the “winningest” losing teams.
    This way a play-in team can get a top-4 pick and become a contender quickly instead of living in mediocrity.
    And fuck the perennial losers.

    RJ was not good last night. He passed well but I have given up all hope. Officially. The guy can’t shoot.

    RJ’s shot chart from yesterday is abysmal, basically his range is limited to the “smile”.

    His “longest” basket was an 8-footer…
    He was 0-11 from 10-feet on, missing in every possible way, too short, too long, too strong, airballs…

    In the east, all positions 1 through 10 are set. Below that, looks like Pacers and Magic will lose out to decide the 6th best odds with a coin flip, but what are the Wizards doing?? They won a perfectly losable game, are now 8th and with little chances of tying for 6th again. And they can get even worse if the Jazz lose their last 2 games (vs DEN, @LAL) and they don’t manage to lose the last game, when they host the Rockets that are trying to lose too. And are better at it. 😛

    There’s a little difference, the Rockets are playing their “best” players (at least until yesterday, all their “usual” starters did play at least 32 minutes in the win in Charlotte), they’re just… young 🙂

    Every other “bad” team is “resting” someone (resting for what? they won’t play until next year!)…

    A joke.

    Wasn’t this RJ’s first game back from illness? I am not gung-ho for the guy, but it is typical that your first game back shows rust.

    I think the play-in is a very good chance to end this blatant tanking games of the end of the season. I’d create 2 levels of odds for the draft, all teams out of the play-in would be the level with the best odds (say 8.8%), and the 4 teams eliminated from the play-in would get the other level of odds (3%). And all 14 picks would be decided by the lottery. If this was in place, no team would be fighting for position, except maybe the ones on the verge of one of this levels. Probably Dallas would’ve kept pushing for the play-in, because that was their objective, they just thought they weren’t going to make it and decided to tank because of the pick protections. But with my draft rules, they’d still be pushing for it until the end because if they’d lose, they’d get the same odds as the ones they’d get by tanking the last 2 games. So no need to tank any game. I think it’d solve the problem, but would create another one. If a team is really bad, they’d have poor odds to turn it around. But i think it’d be worth it, if they were bad for several years, like the 2000s and 2010s Knicks, they must have some luck at some point, right?

    At the end of the day, we’ve got another full season of RJ Barrett in the books that was nearly identical to the ones that came before it. We who watch every game understandably get hung up on 13 game streaks and illnesses and the like but everyone else sees 9,070 mediocre-to-bad, high usage minutes.

    I will repeat that what we do with him in the playoffs will be interesting, given that his minutes allocation with the fate of the universe on the line may well be zero. How far will Thibs deviate from that standard in the playoffs? Do we have to play him some amount to maintain his trade value and/or maintain the facade that we view him as a key piece?

    In other news, a dumb little thing I want to happen is Quickley finishing with a .580 TS%. So if he hits his first few shots in the next game I hope we take him out for the season. Brunson is also right on a totally-insignificant-but-rhetorically-important-border at .597, but alas the .600 dream is probably dead.

    We have to root for the Lakers to lose the play in, then, since they would have a 90% chance of winning a top 4 pick.

    By the way we went from a so called treasure trove of draft picks to no firsts in the upcoming draft really fast.

    I’m not too hung up on it, though. We had the 11th pick last year, too, with multiple studs available, and Leon got ten cents on the dollar for it.

    The fact that we can be mad at Dallas instead of Leon this time is a boon for culture of the board, too.

    the in season tournament is one of the reasons i’ve been pretty disappointed with adam silver as commissioner, relative to high expectations. it’s not that it’s such a horrible idea — it might work out at least okay, though i’d bet against that. it just fixes so little that’s worst about the league for so little upside. people who think it’s costless are underestimating the scarcity of attention and political capital needed to make fundamental changes. years of pimping the in season tournament doesn’t seem like it has to impede other reforms, but it does.

    of the many good ideas, i prefer the simple solution where late season wins improve rather than worsen your lottery position. at the extreme, imagine an in season end of year tournament of losers, where the winner literally gets wemby. admittedly that’s perhaps too extreme bc a prize like that might induce pretty good teams to tank the first half just to be the best of dregs in the wemby invitational, but lesser versions reduce that risk. but the risk of some gaming is inevitable and SO worth it. you 180 the late season by having wins matter. and you can add some luck to it to favor the worse teams a bit by having an in season tournament like structure, where teams can get unlucky and eliminated in a game or two.

    the reverse lottery doesn’t protect bad teams that well anyway. the vicissitudes of the lottery are massive, and inescapable. getting a top pick when it’s lebron or AD or is better than getting years of top picks. and we can’t democratize that well. protect the regular season without distracting from the main quest!

    The fucked up thing about the Mavs is that the west is not particularly good this year. Obviously they have had a disappointing season but you have Luka and Kyrie, you can absolutely win some playoff games this year.

    I can’t say I’m thrilled about an in season tournament. The only thing it does for me is explain what some of those European soccer competitions were that I never understood how related to actual league play. Now I know, They don’t actually relate to league play, they are spurious. But they do seem to give fans an opportunity to see their team play a team in another league and see how they stack up, which is something of interest b

    The NBA in season tournament won’t pit NBA teams against teams from other leagues but almost all the games will count toward the standings. So it just kind of rearranges the league’s regular schedule. Yawn.

    You guys are way too hard on poor Barrett. He hits one 3 to go 1 of 9, and the game is 31 points, 6 assists and 7 rebounds, 1 block and 0 TOs at close to 50% from the field. That’s an excellent stat line.

    Ofc he didn’t hit that one 3, and I didn’t watch the game so idk about his defense, and his plus minus is -15, not good. But to speak about his game last night as a complete nightmare is silly.

    another random first round thought. for this series, the health of mitch and ihart are probably even more important than randle’s effective return. if we lose mitch to injury as we did against the Hawks, i think we’re pretty much cooked. part of this is my ongoing take that jericho sims, as a center on this team, is much, much worse than most observers i’ve seen seems to thinks he is. like, i think there are lots of replacement type player who would fill the role we try to put him in more effectively. this is not entirely due to jericho sims, himself.

    part of it is because our scheme very heavily relies on the center to be a good rim protector in drop against the pnr and dho, and jericho sims is very bad at doing this! maybe one day he gets a feel for backing up against the short court two on one, but that day is not today. sure, he can block a shot or two to only a handful of guys could get to, but that is a vanishing minority of his screen time. at the moment his amazing physical composite would best show as a weak side rim protecting 4, who continually shocks the hell out of guards and wings by effectively switching out on them and/or blitzing like madman. obviously you need some constraints in the surrounding lineup to make him effective in that role, but i don’t think there is any possible lineup that makes him effective as a drop C at the moment.

    this is especially because is such a low value offensive clogger, even for a pure rim runner. his awesome finishing is offset by his pretty poor rolling instincts, and by the fact that we are just a bad lob passing team. adding an offensive deadweight on an already spacing challenged team to a guy who is not great at his primary defensive role is a pretty harmful combination. on this knicks team, jericho is the answer to the question: what if naz reid was terrible at offense? unfortunately for us, we also don’t have palatable small ball options as currently constructed, and certainly don’t against a team with allen/mobley. so here’s to the health of our centers. let’s sit ’em both tomorrow. if either one gets hurt, i worry foul trouble would mean a lot of ugly empty nest minutes.

    btw our infamous 1400+ minutes of -3/100 play from rj/randle/brunson lineups this season turns into +2 if you ignore all minutes with sims/reddish/fournier.

    Mavs fans are going to be so pissed if they chose to have no chance at the play-in and lose the pick anyway.

    It’d be fucking delightful, right?

    I just don’t see how Luka chooses to stay for 4 more years with this clown ass organization. I bet he’s absolutely pissed at how this season went and how the front office managed things, starting from his comments the other day about Brunson, saying he wanted to play if there was still a chance, etc. I think Cuban understands that he has one shot at keeping Doncic and it’s this next offseason going well. It would be a nearly unprecedented disaster to have a 24 year old mega star asking for a trade and rightfully so, which is really what I want to see the most.

    You know the Mavs are going to get the #1 pick just to piss us off.

    “It’d be fucking delightful, right?”

    In a just universe that’s exactly the way it would work.

    I’ll repeat what I said yesterday but with a bit of an expansion and small caveat. The team should fine RJ every time he shoots a shot from further than 5 feet out unless there’s less than 5 seconds left on the shot clock and he didn’t dribble the shot clock down to that point to begin with.

    The success or failure of the Knick off season has little to do with that Dallas pick. Even if we don’t get it this year, it can still be traded this year or used next year. It just burns a little that we are so close to an excellent pick and may not get it this year. Still, the far and away most important thing is replacing RJ in the starting lineup with a legitimate two way starter. One more year of watching RJ and I’ll lose it. I defended him for a long time, but he doesn’t learn and hasn’t gotten much better.

    The biggest issue with RJ to me is that he still plays the game as if he’s a superstar, but with almost none of the traits necessary to do so. It feels like he’s been watching the way superstars play the game and he tries to make the same moves but he simply does not have the athleticism to pull them off, or the shooting ability to compensate for it.

    He simply has to adjust his game to what he’s actually capable of doing with his body and his own ability. It feels like he sees himself as a superstar but can’t understand the limits of his own game. Just watch Josh Hart in comparison, a guy who is perfectly content in just filling whatever holes the team needs and plays to his strengths all the time, maybe even overdoing it at times and being too passive.

    I’m just done with the guy, I see no potential and no realistic means for him to make the jump towards a consistently positive basketball player. Even if he has a later Wiggins-esque resurgence, we can’t afford to keep a terrible contract like his on the hopes that somehow this unlikely development happens.

    Grizzlies are waiving Kennedy Chandler, whom I recall drew some interest here back at draft time.

    I liked him at the time of the draft, Alan, but his pro career has been very underwhelming. Even in the G League. Besides that we already have 2 short PGs, i don’t think we need one more. Pass.

    darules, while crapping on Barrett is indeed its own sport now, there are legitimate reasons for that sport existing. He’s an immensely polarizing player, and I can’t think of a player with a more dramatic box score vs. eye test experience outside of last year’s Julius.

    On one level I’d argue he played one of his better games of the year yesterday, what with being 11-16 from two with 6 assists, and a couple of those assists were things of beauty.

    But he still frequently hijacked the offense, dribbling around and around and just killing the flow. And of course he was 0-9 from three, which is likely rust as you say, but he’s shooting 31% from there for the year, which, well, sucks.

    Finally, his gaffes are of the “Are you kidding me?!?” variety. Two amazing air balls from three, not even close to the rim. Dribbling out the clock at halftime without a clue. Shooting a clanker three early in the clock. Ball-watching on D while his man drains three after three. It’s head-clutching, roll around on the carpet kind of stupid.

    There was definitely Good Barrett yesterday, maybe 50% of the time, which seems about twice as much as what we’ve been getting of late. Is that a glimmer of hope? Or is it the thing with feathers?

    Edit: Or just what Bruno says…

    I’m done with squinting my eyes at RJ Barrett and pretending that I see a good player. He stinks until he proves otherwise. Would happily salary dump him for a nominal non-asset.

    Prove me wrong, Maple Mamba! Please do.

    I always felt the Knicks should be all in on RJ’s development because we simply didn’t have much else to do, last season the team wasn’t competitive and we could afford just giving him as much time and usage he wanted to see what he had to show.

    But for a competitive team in the playoffs he’s simply just not good enough and now we have at least 3 options that are flat out better than him in Quickley, Hart and Grimes, two way players who both fit the system and perform their roles more efficiently.

    For this playoffs, of course get RJ out there and hope for the best, leave him out on crunch time situations when he’s stinking it up and see what happens. But for next season, something has to be done.

    Didn’t watch but the box says RJ was great inside the arc. I’ll take that from him, especially with 6 assists. His 3pt shot is DOA though.

    Yeah, Sims is terrible as a drop coverage C. He’s the biggest dropoff in talent at any position for us.

    You just hope he figures it out in the future, he has the physical tools, but zero awareness of where to be. Definitely better as a PF next to Hartenstein right now.

    Sucks that Brandon Clarke suffered one of the worst basketball injuries you can have, too. Was hoping to see what he looked like in his prime. Sadly, looks like his prime might have already passed.

    Between Adams’ and Clarke’s injuries and Ja Morant having some kind of brain injury as well, not a great season for the Grizz.

    “darules, while crapping on Barrett is indeed its own sport now, there are legitimate reasons for that sport existing.”

    And to think that the existence of a ‘net herd mentality was denied.

    In any event, it appears as if analytics, tanking, modern methods of load management, the easy availability of games and information, the sporting calendar and attention spans, and sheer indifference have finally combined to badly kneecap the 82-game association season. Of all the sports seasons, it has had the longest reign of questioning, but now it really does seem like it’s way past its sell-by date. The demands of commerce make me doubt that it will ever get seriously changed, but it has become really tedious and boring to all but the most ardent of fans. No number of new uniforms and court designs can save it.

    I’m going to spitball a guess here, but I’d put the number at 50% of the scheduled association games in which the visiting team has been missing at least one of, say, its top three players. That number has had to at least double in the past 25 years and it’s more likely something like quadrupled. Other than to socialize, it’s impossible to understand why anyone would buy season tickets or even tickets in advance.

    The playoffs, which remain awesome and compelling and compellingly awesome, can’t come soon enough.

    Knicks still have an open roster spot, might as well give Chandler a shot

    The NBA has opened an investigation about the Dallas Mavericks roster decisions and game conduct in yesterday’s game.

    I’m not joking…

    LOL

    of the many good ideas, i prefer the simple solution where late season wins improve rather than worsen your lottery position.

    The best solution is to not have a draft. Just let rookies be free agents like everyone else.

    But the NBA is kinda like FIFA in the sense that everyone gets one vote so all these sad sack small market teams band together like CONCACAF to ensure all the rules guarantee they get the generational talents.

    Whatever the Mavs get sanctioned will be like a tenth of what they’d pay to acquire the lottery pick they tanked to keep.

    The best solution is to not have a draft. Just let rookies be free agents like everyone else.

    Yes.

    But the NBA is kinda like FIFA in the sense that everyone gets one vote so all these sad sack small market teams band together like CONCACAF to ensure all the rules guarantee they get the generational talents.

    Alas…

    “And to think that the existence of a ‘net herd mentality was denied.”

    okay bob

    “The best solution is to not have a draft. Just let rookies be free agents like everyone else.”

    Maybe they’ve been brainwashed, but I’ve never quite understood why a bunch of guys in their early 20s, with a bunch of coin, would give up the ability to pick where they live and wind up having to live in Memphis or St. Louis or Sacramento. (*) When I came out of law school, the thought of me being “drafted” to one of those places, in lieu of being able to do my own drafting of DC or NYC or wherever, was unthinkable. Why pro athletes don’t have that option remains a complete mystery.(**)

    (*) And it’s not just lifestyle; getting drafted by the wrong team could clearly be detrimental to your career and earnings potential if you got drafted by, say, the Angels and they tried to “develop” you as a hitter and it didn’t take and wasn’t good for you and you never really developed and yet you’re stuck with them for 9 years. Or worse, if you’re a pitcher and they abuse your arm too young and you wind up with multiple surgeries and out before you start.

    (**) I mean, I know why — “competitive balance” — but there’s no draft by law firms or accounting firms or hedge funds to make sure firms in Sacto can compete with firms in NYC.

    “The NBA has opened an investigation about the Dallas Mavericks roster decisions and game conduct in yesterday’s game.”

    Maybe they will lose a draft pick. I think there should be a ping pong ball penalty or loss in revenue sharing for blatant tanking.

    They can open up the lottery to include the teams that lose in the first round. Those teams aren’t usually real title contenders, so giving them a shot at the #1 pick still makes sense while also taking away the downside of eeking into the post season.

    How about making it so that players on any teams that don’t make the playoffs can opt of their contracts after three years?

    They can open up the lottery to include the teams that lose in the first round. Those teams aren’t usually real title contenders, so giving them a shot at the #1 pick still makes sense while also taking away the downside of eeking into the post season.

    I would shuffle every team in the league, but just a little. For example, take the win total of each team and add a random number between 1 and 10, and then sort everyone out. In this way, there is some uncertainty at every step of the draft, and there is no hard place where a team has to be to keep/lose a draft pick with protections.

    Mavs fans are going to be so pissed if they chose to have no chance at the play-in and lose the pick anyway.

    Yes! And OKC going to the finals from the play-in spot, to add insult to injury.

    It won’t happen though. I am ok with it as long as the dont move up in the lottery, being such a losers should not be rewarded.

    The ONLY reason the Mavs did what they did is that if they tank they get a pick, if they don’t they lose it to the Knicks. Yes, the Mavs should get penalized. The penalty should be that they fall out of the lottery (hence trading the pick to the Knicks). The odds of that happening are zilch.

    What will happen is that they will lose money or a 2nd rounder. What should happen is that protections should be disallowed from all trades. Yeah, it changes trade value and will sharply reduce trades but hey, that’s good too.

    If the NBA finds evidence that Dallas actively threw the game rather than just playing their backups, for instance asking players to purposely miss shots, then I could see the NBA coming down pretty harshly on them.

    If they told Frank Ntilikina to intentionally miss, his shots probably would have gone in

    With Utah’s win today the Jazz are 1 game back of the Mavs.

    So if they had won against OKC the Mavs would likely go into a random drawing for who gets the 9th & 10th lotto slots between them & Utah. This also happens with a Mavs loss & Jazz win in the last game.

    fairest penalty would be to make cuban luka and kyrie share a stool on the lottery stage

    what made the mavs thing so bad was them going from all in on wednesday, to all out on friday…what the fuck…

    that and them not wanting to pay us back a pick, they’re assholes for that…business worth billions, and it seemed like such an emotional action…

    first team i can recall actively opting out of the play-in…

    first team i can recall actively opting out of the play-in…

    You’re right Geo…

    And yes, the league rules incentivize losing and it was the rational move and at worst they’ll pay an hefty fine and yadda yadda…

    But they did play their hand so badly, from suddenly changing their stance after a battled win, to Kidd saying that it was “a decision made from above” (implying the players won’t like it), to officially keeping a couple of players, Green and Wood, out for “rest” (instead of faking an injury or just keeping them on the bench), to Luka playing time management.

    They basically taunted the League and challenged them to do something to save face…

    The Mavs did a strange thing. I honestly am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

    The Mavs screwed us and will probably get away with a slap on the wrist monetary fine, but look on the bright side. The team is still owned by Cuban, GM’d by Harrison, and coached by Kidd. So unless they get very lucky they are going to suck for a long time and ultimately lose Luka.

    Intentionally losing a game so you don’t make the playoffs seems like kind of a bridge too far.

    I think an adequate punishment would be to remove them from the lottery. They get no lotto balls. If nobody jumps them, they still pick 10th. If somebody jumps them, the Knicks get the pick. They should not be allowed a shot at a top 4 pick. They lost a potentially playoff clinching game on purpose. It would be a disastrous look for the league if they ended up getting the #1 pick.

    I would imagine the NBA is not pleased that the Mavs, with two of the top ten players in jersey sales (I’m not checking this because I’m on the subway but I think it’s true, and think it’s a fine proxy for “marketability”), pretty much willingly opted out of the NBA playoffs.

    On one hand we all know what the incentives are and in their position there would probably be a Knickerblogger consensus to do the same.

    But at the same time it does feel unprecedented. I mean again we’re talking about a team with a guy who has in the past been arguably *the* premier playoff performer.

    We’ve beaten the dead horse many times over but a system that leads the Mavs to the correct conclusion that they should not let that guy be in the playoffs is broken.

    Lottery wheel, The Frank Mystery Date, opt outs for rookie scale guys, whatever. This should be prevented from happening.

    It would be nice if the Mavericks were penalized by having their draft pick move down one slot from wherever it ends up after the lottery.

    And their tanking was really blatant. I can see why the NBA is upset about it.

    What makes it so ridiculous is that they still had a chance at the playoffs, Doncic played the 1st quarter and then was withdrawn from rest of the game, Kidd actually mentioned that the order to sit a lot of players came from above, then they went deeper into their bench rather than play the 2nd string players the most minutes.

    Keep in mind that the NBA is pushing gambling on the games these days. So we aren’t only talking about draft picks and playoff seeding. We are talking about people that bet huge sums of money on these games assuming both teams are at least going to try their best to win given the players they have available. There are some very pissed off gamblers out there right now. Some people are going to have reservations betting on a sport where teams lose intentionally and don’t get punished severely for it. Silver is probably just going to fine Cuban, but this is a very bad look for the Mavs and the NBA.

    I agree with E’s post about analytics, etc. Baseball is even worse, but that doesn’t help basketball out much.

    “The best solution is to not have a draft. Just let rookies be free agents like everyone else.”

    I believe we’ve discussed the idea of having salary slots for draft positions, e.g. $12M for #1, $10M for #2, $8.5M for #3, and so on.

    If Consensus #1 Pick Rookie doesn’t want to go to the worst team for $12M AAV but will go to the #3 team for $8.5M, let him choose that.

    It’ll never happen, just like the wheel and the widespread adoption of the Elam Ending, but the NBA can keep giving itself a black eye for no reason other than “tradition,” which is a funny thing to say in an era in which AI is going to wipe out, I dunno, let’s spitball, >20% of white-collar jobs within 10 years.

    I hate Dallas and I hate tanking too. Nevertheless, many folks, even on this blog, have promoted tanking as a strategy, albeit in somewhat different circumstances. Also, the contingency of the pick conveying or not was obvious, part of the calculus and is something that was bargained for between Dallas and our FO. Why didn’t our FO demand only top 8 protected-did they even try-would it have negated the deal? I don’t think so. Like I said, I hate Dallas, but to me, this is an error on our part and I’m not going to gripe about Dallas taking advantage of the rules as they now exist.

    “I hate Dallas and I hate tanking too. Nevertheless, many folks, even on this blog, have promoted tanking as a strategy, albeit in somewhat different circumstances. ”

    The differences may be subtle, but they are important.

    They actively played the worst players on the team extra minutes instead of some of the 2nd string players that were also available and took Doncic out even though he was available and OK.

    If you say players A, B, C are out, I assume you are going to at least use X, Y, Z to the best of your ability. They didn’t even do that. They came as close as you can get to fixing a game without actually asking players to miss on purpose and not defend at all.

    Too close, too subtle, just my opinion Strat. BTW, have you been miffed with the Knicks tampering to get Brunson? Folks have said it was worth it-I agree whole heartedly. Should the FO have voided the Brunson contract? As to the gamblers, well I don’t care about them that much, but I understand that they have legit skin in the game; nevertheless, they are gamblers and should darn well understand the risks and rules of their game. I am not saying what Dallas did was “good”, but it is certainly understandable, and I would prefer to let the market and players deal with the repercussions rather than the FO w/o a well-considered rule change. Also Strat, maybe (hopefully) ball don’t lie, we will see.

    The league will probably fine Cuban 500k and he’ll take the money out of the petty cash.

    In the best interest of basketball, Silver should lift the protection on the Mavs pick and give the Knicks the option to take it this year. The Mavs intentionally sabotaging a game result and admitting that it was an organizational decision has to be scrutinized.

    “albeit in somewhat different circumstances”

    There is a world of difference between winning 20 and 30 games and what the Mavs did.

    “they are gamblers and should darn well understand the rules in their own game.”

    They do. And when they see teams go beyond just sitting key players to actually playing the worst players available extra minutes, they know they just witnessed a team get as close to fixing as game as you can get without actually missing on purpose and not defending. So they are less likely to want to bet a sport like that, at least at certain times. That’s bad for the NBA. That and everything else is why the league is upset.

    “The league will probably fine Cuban 500k and he’ll take the money out of the petty cash.”

    You could be right, but I hope they don’t do that. The Knicks’ tampering penalty was a second round pick which is certainly worth more than $500,000. I would say this is just as bad and probably worse. And the penalty should have at least some teeth. What is more, in this case the tanking was very public and is bad publicity for the league. That usually makes punishments more severe than private infractions.

    Strat, I don’t disagree with any of that. All fair points. The league should be concerned.

    The only fair punishment is giving the Mavs 2 additional wins, forcing them into the play-in

    No offense to strat et al, but hearing that gamblers are grousing about things being unfair to them makes me kind of glad the Mavs threw it. Imagine all the regular fans that gamblers have screwed out of wins over the years. It’s nice to see them on the receiving end for a change.

    Besides, they made the bet, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let ’em crash!

    RJ is embarrassing to watch sometimes. The way he gets blocked, and his awkward looking shot from 3 (even when they go in) and his out of place star mentality. But his skill at creating his own shot at the rim is important in the league, so I don’t see him as a bust, and I think his -3.5 bpm is misleading.

    The skill I’d have him develop is reading the situation faster when he gets to the free throw line and having the ability to decide at that point if he goes to the rim, or finds space for a quality midrange shot.

    Then he needs to start giving a damn on defense. That’s his make or break skill for me. He cannot be a below average defender in this league and justify his contract.

    The NBA is investigating Dallas not so much about tanking as a strategy, but about having a noncompetitive game. That hurts the product.

    So having 4 players not play is ok, although having 2 of them because of “rest” less so. The real problem is having Luka play one quarter and then pulling him, then pulling the nominal starters for the bench because they are winning, then pulling the bench for the complete scrubs because they are still winning, and then not seriously trying to tie the game at the end of regulation.

    That was a farce that everyone could see, and that is not good for the league. My guess is that the leagues takes a 2nd rounder from them (although the idea of the Mavs losing their ping-pong balls to advance in the lottery is also good one, and I could see it in addition to the 2nd rounder)

    Yeah, taking away their ping pong balls, and sending their 2nd rounder to the Knicks seems like a reasonable punishment. Serious enough to discourage teams from acting like this in the future, while not overboard.

    Cuban’s actions essentially warned everyone in the organization “Lose this game or else….”

    Jason Kidd pretty much said as much even prior to the game.

    Blatantly throwing a “must win” game, essentially to win a bet (isn’t pick protection sort of a bet between two teams?) seems punishable to me.

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