[news.google.com] — Saturday, November 12, 2022 7:00:00 AM
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The reason behind Quentin Grimes’ ‘situational’ status with Knicks ClutchPoints
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[news.google.com] — Friday, November 11, 2022 8:20:00 PM
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Ep. 176 Shock Jacques Knicks Podcast Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Friday, November 11, 2022 8:00:00 AM
3 things Knicks learned from their recent tough schedule stretch Daily Knicks
68 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.11.12)”
Tough, but fair.
Missed the game, saw some highlights. Glad IQ finally knocked down some 3’s, glad RJ was in his bag offensively, glad to see that one clip of Grimes going to the rack. But I don’t know how much you can take from a game where the opponent is so bad, and missing its alleged best player. And at a certain point, having a squad that’s talented enough to beat the bad teams on most nights, but not talented enough to beat the good teams, makes even the wins a lot less fun.
Maybe once Grimes works himself back to full health, and/or if Thibs continues the Randle/Obi minutes even after Mitch is back, I might feel differently. It all just feels stuck on the treadmill right now. It’s hard to even take much satisfaction out of RJ showing off all his moves, given the level of competition. Wake me when he can do that against Cleveland’s twin towers.
The Pistons are always the best tonic around and while I was hoping for a less stressful win (no need to have them down only 4 in the last 2 minutes) we’re back at .500 and in the tick of the developing fight for the play-in.
Each member of the 3-Lefties had a very good game, while everyone else more or less struggled.
Putting the win aside, our defense so far has been much less good than the expected standard.
Stats Of The Day:
27-29. Knicks FT%. The 3-Lefties combined were a wonderful 20-21.
Shooting FTs well can make the difference between a little scary win and a disastrous loss. Now please continue.
0. Brunson’s turnovers (82-20 AST/TO ratio so far).
5-2. Randle’s AST/TO ratio for the game, positive for the first time in november (breaking a 5-games streak)
Grades:
Brunson A
Cade’s absence probably helped, but a 26 points game with 7-0 AST/TO and 4 steals, seasoned with leadership and steady playmaking is a really good game.
Brace yourself for a long season of merciless targeting on D.
Barrett A
Let’s make 30-points game your next standard kid!
Best game of the year on offense, efficient and mainly in rhythm, with some nice passes mixed in.
Below average defense, maybe he didn’t felt challenged or maybe it’s just me being too critical.
Randle A-
Best plus/minus of the team, two clutch baskets at the end, flashes of his best defensive effort of the season and some good runs as a trailer on fastbreaks (never let him lead a break anymore please).
Also 0-7 from three, the good thing is that he finally stopped shooting them and concentrate on being a bully in the paint.
Maybe he has finally sweated Minny’s game out of his system…
Reddish D
Hooray, a stat line with REBs and ASTs! But he looks like a player without a role on offense, he’s 5-26 FG in the last 4 games and has missed the last 10 three pointers.
Someone would say he’s back at being Cam Reddish.
Hartenstein C-
He’s usual yeoman-like work (12 REB, 1 BLK) but he had too much brain freeze moments later in the game.
I cannot understand why we do not exploit better his high-post passing skills. Or take advantage of his flash cuts in the paint more often. Thibs, please call Ty Lue.
Fournier F
From streaky to nonexistent. While he has been a good teammate and said all the right things, the demotion send him to another dimension and he’s struggling to come back.
IQ B-
He finally hit some shots but we need more evidence that is out of his slump.
Toppin C
A very nice pull-up jumper, a timely three down the stretch, the usual energy, but the usual defense too, a couple of horrible threes and some confusion.
Sims C
Back to 8 minutes, with 4 fouls. Personal feeling: sometimes he doesn’t look ready for the show.
Rose C
The legs arent’ there, the dribble sometimes isn’t there. I’m in a wait and see mode about him.
Grimes NA
Situationally used in the 2nd quarter, it’s nice to see him bury some shots, but he’s rusty as hell and needs time (and minutes).
Thibs B
The Bench Mob fail him this time but he tries everything and everyone. I’m a bit surprised overall: this team doesn’t look “hungry” and the energy level is sinusoidal. It doesn’t look a Thibs’ team.
JK47, Donnie Walsh, and any other Angelinobloggers who want to hang tonight… email hubertdaviskb@gmail.com for details
Grimes showing signs of life, IQ rebounding, everyone mostly performing well, plenty to be happy anout if you grade on a curve.
In other news, Go Brentford!!!!
Making Arsenal fans very happy today
Missed most of the game but glad we held on…OKC will be a better test.
There is a lot of parity in the east right now. lots of teams around .500 Even CLE and ATL have 4 losses. We’d be tied with ATL at 7-5 if not for the meltdown game. I also do think we have another gear if we can get the whole roster healthy and in rhythm. Robinson is out. Grimes is making his way back. Evan looks lost but could carve out a role. Big three looks pretty solid. Obi is maybe my favorite Knick right now.
That all being said, I sort of agree with Alan. It’s like if if if then what? After watching a non competitive effort against BKLYN the other night, losing to a team with one truly ascendent player, I found myself wondering if the Melo trade was really so bad. Whether we should have emptied the chamber for Mitchell. I mean, a smart GM and coach, building a team of role players around a top ten player, may indeed trump the proverbial deep and talented team. Maybe the team spit the bit after Melo and not because of him…
The Pistons not having Cunningham makes them a much better team because he’s terrible.
Bit of a weird game, both teams shot horribly but hey, we won. RJ now shooting 51% on 2 point shots.
Steph and Spida put on a show last night.
It’s pretty amazing that the Pelicans are currently the top contender for VW.
A franchise hat has had the chance to draft Paul, Davis, and Zion getting a crack at the next great prospect.
I like what I see so far this season.
Everyone projected us to be a middle of road team this year and that’s what we are so far. I wanted a handful of things out of this season.
1. Brunson had to prove he could be a starting PG in this league (check)
2. RJ had to show signs of continued development (check)
3. Randle had to rebuild his reputation a bit so he could potentially be moved (check)
4. Other young role players has to add to their games (check)
The only thing missing is Grimes working his way into the starting lineup and adding defense next to Brunson. He has been injured. So we have time for that. But we need better defense to compete against the best teams!!!!!
We have no “great players”. There are going to ups and downs, hot and cold streaks, good and bad matchup nights. The difference between good and great is that great players can do so many things well, there are virtually no bad matchups. You can slow them, but you can’t stop them. That’s not the case with RJ, Randle, and Brunson. We have to be patient with the slow steady development of the players we have (including the frustrating nights when they get shut down or just have a bad night) and look forward to using our assets to add a player that takes us up to the next level while we are developing.
The defense worries me.
Keep waiting for the bench to come alive again.
Hoping this is still an adjustment period with Hart & Brunson integrating.
Cam back down to… below earth. The incineration lives on (see what I did there?)
“Everyone projected us to be a middle of road team this year and that’s what we are so far. ”
************************************
Not really — 19th in SRS, 20th in net rating against a weak schedule with a bunch of games against teams with key missing players.
The only way you get from that to “middle of the road” is if you grade on an extremely generous curve.
… and they were 19th and 19th in those two metrics last year.
This is what they are — a 33rd-35th percentile team.
Although i agree with Alan, and we can’t take away much from a game against a GLeague team, it’s good to see that RJ is coming alive again. Randle playing well is good too, but don’t be fooled it is good only if we take the chance to trade him. Brunson is a good player, but we need to re-tool the roster to mask his defense. Let’s ride with this roster until the deadline, but i hope Leon makes the needed adjustments by then.
Can’t wait to watch Shai, his stats look great this season. Everybody thinks we’d give (a lot of) picks to get him, but i don’t think OKC wants a lot of picks anymore. What about RJ and picks for Shai? RJ is 2 years younger and more in line with the timeline of Giddey and Chet. And RJ would probably not take them out of the top10 by himself like Shai might do.
33rd % puts us in the lottery for a strong draft year 🙌🙌🙌
Perma-benching Fournier should help a lot. Or using him “situationally”.
I don’t think Fournier is getting benched any time soon. He’s clearly not himself right now, but that should change once things stabilize.
“Not really — 19th in SRS, 20th in net rating against a weak schedule with a bunch of games against teams with key missing players.”
SRS includes schedule and we’ve been missing Mitch and Grimes. That’s theoretically 2 starters or at least 1 starter and 2 finishers.
You can look at the Knicks as a glass half full or a glass half empty, but we don’t have to look at the team like a broken glass in the desert because it isn’t that.
They’re 20th in net rating. They were 19th last year.
That’s what they are. Fans, observers, analysts, KBers can characterize that in the way they choose. If they want to call that “half full,” that’s their call.
But the thing they’re characterizing is pretty much crystal clear.
Hey Cdiggy, anyone throwing shade these days?
An interesting subplot is the Knicks could feasibly have three mid-to-late first round picks this year. That sounds like the Leon Rose regime’s personal hell.
It’ll be a while before anyone can have a fully informed opinion as to how they should navigate that if it does come to pass, but it’s worth keeping in mind that this team currently rosters Derrick Rose, Evan Fournier, Cam Reddish, Svi Mykhailiuk, and Ryan Arcidiacono.
We absolutely, positively have roster space for three rookies if there are in fact three intriguing rookies available.
RJ has looked way better of late. By the eye-test, he’s making more passes out of drives instead of throwing up prayers and hitting more open shots. By the numbers, he’s averaging 21.6 points, 5.6 rebounds, and 3.7 assists/2.3 turnovers with a .612 TS% (43% from 3, 77% from the line) over his last 7 games. That’ll play. He seems to have settled into an appropriate level of usage.
Thing is, at this point I am a tad cynical about great stretches of play from RJ Barrett that amount to fewer than 82 games. I have gone back and forth about how I feel about his prospects so many times because of this shit. I am thus very happy to see him playing better but basically just waiting for the next shoe to drop.
In year four, having signed a lucrative-though-reasonable contract, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for him to just have an unambiguously good NBA season. Above average TS+, that kind of thing. No more 8 games here and 13 games there.
1. They won’t make trades that take the team backwards just to add someone in the draft
2. They won’t draft anyone in the 1st round and lock him into the required multi year contract unless they think he’s worth that salary and risk.
If they can move a veteran AND improve the team, they’ll do that.
If someone develops to the point that they don’t need player X, Y, or Z anymore, they’ll be open to a trade.
I think they’d like to move Fournier once Grimes is up and running, but I doubt they want to give up anything more than a 2nd rounder to do it. There’s no reason to. He’s not complaining or disrupting anything on the bench.
I’m not sure if Thibs is holding Rose back because he’s saving him for later in the season, whether he’s working his way back to 100% off the layoff, or whether this is a permanent change, but if it’s the latter, then I could see Rose being traded at the deadline. He’s an expiring contract and could help a serious contender. He has value.
“Thing is, at this point I am a tad cynical about great stretches of play from RJ Barrett that amount to fewer than 82 games.”
He’s not a great player. He’s going to have slumps and hot streaks and he’s going to get shut down by certain defenders on some nights.
What we are looking for is better decision making and shooting overall.
If he nets out to a TS% of 55% for the year with better decision making in the paint, better use of his right hand, fewer meltdowns like game 1, 75% from the FT line, 35% from 3 etc… that would be a wild success. Then next year you hope to add something else.
“They’re 20th in net rating. They were 19th last year.
That’s what they are. Fans, observers, analysts, KBers can characterize that in the way they choose. If they want to call that “half full,” that’s their call.”
Thy need to improve the defense. That’s how they played so well a couple of years ago. But since then they’ve been making trade offs trying to find a PG to improve the offense while allowing their best defenders to go. If Grimes can knock down 3s and help spacing, but also bring solid defense to the table, I think we’ll start seeing some improvement.
Games until the 20-game mark:
13. vs OKC – winnable
14. @ Jazz – 1st in WC
15. @ Nuggets – 5th in WC
16. @ Warriors – NBA Champs
17. @ Suns – 4th in WC
18. @ OKC – winnable?
19. vs Blazers – 2nd in WC
20. vs Grizz – 3rd in WC
If we survive this stretch and still are a .500 team, then i’ll feel it is deserved. Right now it is more about the schedule than the play of the team. But at best i’m seeing us getting away with a 3-5, most likely a 2-6 is what will happen, with 1-7 having the same chances as the 3-5.
I agree with Z-man, by game 20 we’ll know more what this team is capable of, and what it is not.
I had never looked at the leaders in TS% before. Kind of interesting at the moment — 7 of the top 8 are, in order, Bol Bol, Brandon Clarke, Al Horford, Kelly Olynyk, Nic Claxton, Kentavious etc, and Onyeka Okongwu (with some guy named Steph in there at fifth).
I remember laughing at the occasional poster who suggested the Knicks take a flier with Bol Bol. I’d like to offer my profound apologies. I’ve watched him for a couple of short stints already this year and he’s clearly made a pact with Satan. Suddenly it’s cross-over drives to the basket.
I mean, he’s not shooting a lot of them, but .526 from three?
The gunners are on borrowed time. Wouldn’t be surprised if they finish out the top 4.
Bold prediction after City just lost to Brentford in the 98th minute.
I think Arsenal is much better than 5th best. Saliba is really good and exactly what they needed. And Gabriel Jesus is actually the deadly veteran striker they hoped he would be. Saka is a star.
City may catch them but they will be playing UCL football next year.
But this is exactly why everyone here wanted him. Because that’s exactly what he did in college.
“They’re 20th in net rating. They were 19th last year.”
skinda what I’m saying. I mean, Donovan Mitchell and his cousins might give this team a run…
I love Obi, IQ, etc. But we’re coming back home way under .500, I think. Our trades may need to be to get better draft position as opposed to adding a final piece. I hope to hell I’m wrong because I genuinely like this group. But our assets may be less valuable in a couple of weeks.
Knicks personnel meeting, June 2022:
Brock Aller: “I kind of like Bol Bol.”
Tom Thibodeau: “What, you’re gonna stutter at us now too, Hinkie?”
– I’d potentially cut Deuce too
– I like Svi, but same boat as Deuce
– Archie will stick till 2030
– Can we just cut Fournier now?
With a deep draft I’d like to think we keep those picks. Even a stash or a project.
I’m a Spurs supporter, Owen; take it with a grain of salt. I’m still hoping Arsenal might get relegated 🙂
FWIW, Bol Bol played only 9 games in college. He played well, but he was some kind of a mistery. The only certain thing about him was that he probably would be injury prone, and that has already been confirmed. I hope the kid has a wonderful career, but he’s far from a certain thing, even to suit up and play.
The top priorities for this team are:
(1) Get a high-level perimeter defender, maybe that’s Grimes
(2) Trade Randle, preferably for a versatile defender & shooter
Bol Bol was 9th on my 2019 big board, which I thought was a decent balancing of his obvious potential with the even more obvious injury concerns. Then he was drafted 44th.
Sorry to keep going off-topic, but so many great stories this week, with KFC leading the pack; but this one’s pretty good too, and at least basketball-relevant:
Miami Heat will rename FTX Arena after cryptocurrency exchange collapses
+1
To be thinking about “should i lock this guy on a rookie contract?” is bad GM’ing. It’s little money, and you’ll waste the money anyway on the Archs and Svis of the world. The draft exists to throw darts and hope to get lucky. And btw, you can’t justify punting on picks, and at the same time say that we can draft a gem late in draft. Although still not a strong chance, but if you want to draft a gem, at least throw all the darts that you have to maximize your chances.
Obi & Randle are -11.9 per 100 possessions in 42min. So yeah, that isn’t working out so far. They did have a 14min stint with Cam/RJ/Brunson that was +19. At least 1 Fournier lineup with those 2 was expectedly awful.
Fournier/Randle -13.6. This makes sense.
The “you need to decide if a first-round pick is worth a rookie-scale contract” thing is something I’ve never heard from anyone except Strat. It’s not a real thing. These contracts were specifically designed to pose virtually zero risk to teams. I mean shit, they have *multiple* team options!
Of course any trade up/out proposal should be evaluated on its own merits, but we can and should look to add multiple young players in this draft.
I agree 44th seems too low for Bol Bol’s potential, but 9th seems too high. Maybe early 20s would have been his place. We have to wait and see how his career unfolds.
Guys!!! RJ has a +0.1 OBPM!!! This is monumental!!
Underpaid 😀
Can someone inform Randle that he doesn’t need to take 5.8 threes a game? His TS% inside the arc is a very robust .612. Yes, the threes are almost all wide open and he probably needs to take a few a game just to keep defenses honest (though no one is exactly trying to run him off of the line as it stands) but I’d really like to see that number somewhere between 3 and 4. At least he’s seemed to answer the question of whether he’s still athletic enough to finish inside. He’s been a beast- .700 fg% 0-3 feet and a 161 ftr+. I doubt those numbers are sustainable but if he drops a three pointer or two his TS% should still hover around average. Obviously, the best outcome would be for him to actually make threes- then he’d probably be movable without assets- but if he’s hitting threes the Knicks aren’t trading him. The question is- is there a stat line that would make Randle potentially movable but not make the Knicks want to keep him? I think as long as he’s struggling from three the front office would be willing to move him. Get back over 10 boards a game, get the assist turnover ratio somewhat under control, keep beasting inside and maybe there’s an injury somewhere and someone’s willing to roll the dice.
I’d put trading Fournier over trading Randle as a higher priority. If Randle keeps this play up he could actually be a desirable centerpiece for a real upgrade trade. But I think we need him to keep playing the way he is for awhile.
Fournier gives us nothing we can’t theoretically find elsewhere or even already on this team.
Reasons why Randle might be easier to trade: Has been performing pretty well this season (though some of his advanced stats are very unflattering), is a beast down low and on the boards, has much higher defensive upside than Fournier (even if that upside is “he won’t kill you at that end”), and could slot in well on a team where he would have to be the third banana at best, if not the sixth man.
Reasons why Fournier may be easier to trade: everybody needs shooting and he is only a season removed from some superb work from downtown, he is simply easier to fit into other rosters while Julius has to go to the exact right situation, and his contract only has one season remaining versus three more for Julius.
I don’t like Randle shooting that many 3s, but I also think we need him to shoot that many 3s.
We need someone to stretch the floor. Not sure Brunson or RJ are all that much better on volume.
Beats him trying to go iso.
https://twitter.com/cologneloring/status/1591523408600535040?s=46&t=plLk8aI_Il9G19v8e9EHDQ
Good tweet.
I continue to think people are surprisingly unenthused about how good Brunson is.
I think Evan will come around. He isn’t this bad. But he has been. And that’s maybe masking some things.
Fournier is easier to trade because after this season he becomes “Evan Fournier’s Expiring Contract.” A team trading for Randle is signing up for the Julius Randle Experience for the rest of this season, and then three more seasons.
It’s thus going to be very, very hard for Randle to dig his way out of albatross territory. Four years is a really long time for a guy no one is certain is good.
I think he’d have to prove he’s a reliable 3PT shooter over a full season while continuing to score well around the rim. Even that might not be enough with how volatile 3PT shooting can be.
Nobody’s taking on Randle’s contract unless they can get rid of a worse one, or they get paid to take it on.
The only hope is some bad injury kinda late in the year by a contender or semi-contender and they get completely desperate and do something stupid. That *could* happen, though it’s highly unlikely.
Fournier is better than he’s played, I still don’t see a role for him given his defense.
If Cam goes back to being Cam or gets hurt *and* Grimes gets hurt there might be playing time. I’d just as soon play Deuce or Svi.
Brock Aller: “I kind of like Bol Bol.”
Tom Thibodeau: “What, you’re gonna stutter at us now too, Hinkie?”
that’s twisted E 🙂
if there’s anyone on the team i’m rooting for – it’s julius, because of his obvious struggles…
a little bit the same of how i felt about frank – here is a very obviously somewhat emotionally unsettled individual trying to do a job, with erratic performances…and it’s playing out for the whole world to see…
man, i used to feel soooo bad when frank got the crazy thousand mile (i’m not home right now) stare…
when julius starts laughing, but not laughing really…don’t wanna call it maniacal, but maniacal laughter…heartbreaking stuff…
it seems julius has shifted a bit from on-court depression to on-court mania…it’s tough to watch sometimes, hopefully he stays committed to his mindfulness stuff and gets better…
maybe you have to be a little crazy to be a professional athlete…
or heck, even what you’ve done this lifetime doc bob…that’s borderline human outlier behavior 🙂
no sane human being runs a million miles in a lifetime…that’s like otherworldly stuff…
on a basketball level though, seems julius can cause as much harm out on the court as aid…
between his turnovers and poor defense, hard to justify his scoring and rebounding…
it seems a close call at least…
good:
– 2 point attempts down
– free throw attempts up
– minutes down
– usage down
– TS%
– offensive rebounding
not so good:
– defensive rebounding
– DBPM
– 3 point attempts up, 3 point % bad
– assists down, turnovers the same
– committed fouls up
for some reason he’s not getting defensive rebounds, fouling a lot, still turning the ball over a bunch…and although he’s not clogging the lane as much anymore – he’s not really consistently hitting behind the arc…
bad defense, poor defensive rebounding in particular, bad ball handling and passing – definitely should put your place on the roster in jeopardy…
already been said, after last season, julius as an asset is depreciated a bunch…he needs to put up better numbers…
He’s gone from a 36% of FGs Assisted last year to 52%. The numbers you mention are actually below what he put up the last time he was assisted on >50% of his FGs:
*0-3ft .728
*187 ftr+
He was also right around those numbers the year he was assisted on 49% of his FGs:
* 0-3ft .689
* 173ftr+
His 2yr 0-3ft avg was .709 virtually identical to this year’s. 707.
Weird Randle stat:
He had a 15.8 AST% for 3 consecutive seasons for 3 different teams (LAL, NOP, NYK).
He currently has a 15.8 Ast% this year.
Kevin Durant is just crazy to watch.
slow news day
https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/knicks-getting-calls-about-potential-immanuel-quickley-trade/
Quick is giving off real Tony Allen vibes- just relentless effort. He’s not really a stopper but he’s the only guy (besides Mitch) who consistently helps and recovers and he gets every loose ball. If he can get his shooting back to where it was in his rookie year he’s probably right there with Brunson as our best player.
I would think those teams that are interested have noticed that he can defend. His scoring alone wouldn’t account for the interest.
I think Randle should keep shooting 3s, there’s a decent chance he’ll be good at making them.
As for our defense, we have been getting killed on the offense glass and we are letting teams score fairly well at the rim. Getting Reddish the fuck out of the rotation would help with the rebounding a bit
I think it’s time to sell “high” on D-Rose. He looks absolutely cooked, and the risk that he loses any and all value as trade bait gets higher and higher with every 0-4 showing. Trading him to a competitor for either a mediocre player more suited to our needs (defense, please!) or as salary filler in a larger trade (e.g., Fournier, Reddish, and Rose for Westbrook plus some kind of asset if the Lakers are delusional enough to compete for the play-in).
What do we think we could trade him for, assuming other people in the league don’t think he’s absolutely washed?
I think Rose is a sunk cost. I can’t imagine anyone giving us anything for him.
Corey Kispert career night. KP had a great game.
Wasn’t there some rumor floated today or yesterday that there was a team interested in rose?
I mean honestly in his current condition a pair of seconds would be the most I would dare to ask for and I’d do so with the expectation of being bargained down to one second.
We originally traded for him by giving one second round pick so I doubt we will get two now especially as he is older and worth less. We also probably have to take some salary back because most teams are over the cap. I think it’s more likely we get some sort of reclamation project back for him. That is, some sort of guy who didn’t succeed yet but is still young or somebody a team wants to be rid of, like Miles Bridges, who we could just waive and get cap space next year. All such deals seem unlikely enough to me that we might as well keep him and see if he improves. His three point shooting percentage is 34% at the moment which isn’t horrible. Also his salary could be useful for matching purposes if someone good is available at the trade deadline.
The Knicks also dealt Dennis Smith Jr., who sucked, but he didn’t have zero trade value at the time (he soon had zero trade value).
I’m not averse to trading him, I just think it’s more likely to be traded a salary filler in a package than by himself. Actually his PER is about 11 of 12, which is fine for a back up.