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Post-Game Recap

NY Post: Knicks offense breaks out with laugher over Pistons in home opener

From Zach Braziller:

This felt like the college powerhouse handpicking its first opponent to impress the home fans. A carefully selected team intended to create a sense of optimism.

Though the Knicks had no say in who they opened up with at the Garden on Friday night, the Pistons would have been at the top of their list if they had that option: A young team feeling good coming off its first season-opening victory in three years.

Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey and Co. were perfect foils, easy marks for the far hungrier, ball-moving Knicks. Tom Thibodeau’s team didn’t mess around after the disappointing overtime loss to the Grizzlies two nights ago, leading by 10 after one quarter and cruising to its first win, a 130-106 whipping of Detroit at a joyous and sold-out Garden.

“We knew the energy we had to come out with, and we just had a lot of fun and shared the ball,” said Obi Toppin, a force off the bench with 16 points in 21 minutes.

Pick a player, basically any player who touched the court, and he was productive for the Knicks. The starters continued to thrive. The second unit excelled. Players who weren’t at their best in the opener — RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Toppin, Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley — were terrific, and the ball bounced the Knicks’ way. Even when a Rose feed for a cutting Isaiah Hartenstein went through his hands, it caromed to Toppin for an uncontested 3-pointer.

Great win. I want them to play the Pistons every game. Can that be arranged?

79 replies on “NY Post: Knicks offense breaks out with laugher over Pistons in home opener”

Fun win, but am I the only one who thinks Cade Cunningham is really overrated? I mean he’s fine, but the guy had a 50.4 TS, a negative WS/48, shot 31% from 3, is not a good defender, and is a below-average athlete at the wing position. And he’s 6’6″, not apex-predator wing size like Paul George or Tatum.

Fell asleep in the 2nd half, but from what i watched in the 1st half, it was a fun game and we played the right way, that’s the most important to me. Sharing the ball, unselfish plays, all things we want to see. Now let’s build on this. If we win the games we’re supposed to win, and put up a fight on the rest, i’ll be happy.

Cade is the PG, a position that can take more time to fully excel. And from their core, 2 players are rookies on the 2nd game of their careers. I wouldn’t be mad if that was our team, they look like they have a lot of potential.

We need to agree to a common rule about the post game comments, or the post game thread will be gobbled up by the daily one in an hour or two…

🙂

Agreed, Max. I want to ask more questions, but feel like I need to wait for the morning thread.

Brian, can we turn off the bot on the morning after games?

Reposting from the deleted thread…

Nice, easy win. It was against a mediocre team but ball movement was a beauty for most of the night, the kids rebounded well after the debacle in Memphis and Brunson looks like the starting PG we haven’t had in eons…
Play Of The Game
Obi to Cam for the alley-oop slam in the 2nd. It’s funny to watch Obi on the other side of the rainbow.
Stat(s) Of The Day
0 – Brunson’s turnovers in the first two games (against 15 assists)
9 – Consecutive wins against Detroit
Postgame, Casey had flattering words on the Knicks, I don’t want to sound too optimistic but I understand why.
The team depth and a focused Bench Mob can be real weapons in the regular season, plus team chemistry can only improve.
The next two games against inferior competition will be a good litmus test about our progress.

Reposting from the deleted thread.

Brunson A
Leadership, craftiness and a 15-0 AST/TO ratio in two games, the 2 missed FTs were out of character but it was an easy game so they didn’t sting. We waited for a floor general like this for how many years?

Fournier C-
Nothing special nothing bad. He’s trying on defense and his hands are quick, he mixed his solutions on offense well. Can be a nice complimentary piece, in my opinion better suited for the bench (but I understand Thibs wanting him with the starters to give them much needed shooting).

Barrett B-
Sparkling start with 3 beautiful assists, good recovery after Memphis with a solid game overall. If I’m not wrong he still has to bury a basket outside the 5-feet range, but it will come.

Randle C
A couple of timely threes, no turnovers, consistent effort. Surprisingly no assists too. Nothing special but he was in the flow and looks committed to the team.

Robinson B-
Dominant as usual under the offensive board, solid game all around and even tried a real offensive move.

IQ A-
Good morning! Good way the shrug off a slump, 20 points on 14 shots seasoned with 7 rebounds and 7 assists. Let’s keep this up Immanuel.

Rose A
And welcome back to the Old Man too. 16 high quality minutes (13 and 6 ast with 3 bombs) with only a couple of forgettable TOs. I like him to be used for quality over quantity to keep him fresh and functioning.

Toppin B +
The Brooklyn Tornado is back. Started with an airball but later hit 2 threes, jumped all over, filled the stats sheet (4 reb, 3 ast, 1 blk) and was his customary supernova of energy. A sleeper for 6MOTY?

Reddish C-
A bad start but about decent the rest of the game. Maybe, just maybe, he’s slowly buying in on the team concept. If so, he can be useful… or traded for something better than before.

Hartenstein C +
He’s not perfect but is an high BB-IQ player, always in the middle of action (in a good an bad way) and an added dimension to our offense. At his price he’s a great signing.

Svi A
One shot one splash, 2 boards in 2 minutes. Perfect game for our 15th spot.

Deuce, “Even” Keels, Arcidiacono – No Grade
Fouls, missed shots and missed FT (no good Deuce) but it’s garbage…

Thibs A
The ball moves well and starters are committed on D, right now he has forgotten his dreaded ASP (Automatic Substitution Pattern) and goes with the best combinations, even experimenting a bit. The new bearded coach looks like he keep the good things of the past and get rid of the bad one and if true it can be a great news.

No thank you 🙂

But now I fear to delete the last one because of the “blocking account” rule 🙁

Question: Is “characters limit” in the post still active?

Don’t worry, I’ll get the last Jazz comment for you and then we’ll be caught up. I really dunno about the character limit. I’m allowed to exceed it when I edit comments, but I don’t know otherwise.

By Post Author

Max’s last comment from the deleted thread.

Changing subject, I watched a bit of the Jazz game.

They have a bunch of prideful veterans (Conley, Clarkson, Gay, Olynyk, Beasley) plus some former lottery picks (Markkanen, Sexton) that don’t give a fuck about Ainge machinations and are literally showing him the finger.
And I respect the hell of them for it.

Trader Danny better starts impose suspensions for “behavior detrimental to the team” if he wants to prevent a seizure.

By Post Author

Ainge will just trade a lot of those pieces come December for more picks. He probably isn’t too worried about them messing the tank. It’s also early. We were 5-1 last year to start LOL.

Seriously though. We look so much better. Brunson is not only really good but he fixes the turnover issue from last season which will mean far less east points for our opponents.

Instead of other teams being gifted points every game off of turnovers we’re gonna be the ones getting some easy transition points.

If the team can really buy into this everyone can be the man one nigh/no one has to be the man every night and really share the love, we’re gonna have a fun regular season.

Will be interesting if we’re doing well and everyone is thriving what Leon will do at the deadline. Inevitably there will be teams that will disappoint and will be looking to make moves. Will we consolidate and try to get a real upgrade somewhere or stay put?

Thanks for consolidating, Brian!

I’m not going to get too hyped over a win versus a bad young team. But the team did exactly what it should do in this kind of matchup, and I’m glad RJ, IQ, and Obi all bounced back from very poor opening night play.

Jalen Brunson. Man. It’s so strange to feel confident in our starting point guard. He won’t be the best PG on the floor many nights, but he’ll be reliable and often better than that.

Brunson is just good. Yeah he’s not a superstar but he’s probably right below the all star level and the fact that he rarely turns the ball over is a godsend for us.

Some random highly subjective observations:
1. Kudos to RJ for playing within the confines of his talents. Sadly, one of the critical confines is that he lacks touch when going to the hoop either for a floater or a lay-up. He hit one of the latter with extra spin on it that seemed random. His passing in first half was stellar.
2. Cam really seems to be trying to change his game both on offense and defense. As old habits die hard, it might be a slog, but at least the will is there.
3. The ball movement of the bench mob was much superior to that of the starters, especially in the first half.
4. IQ really did not force trying to get his shots when he came in in first half, but played within the flow of the game racking up bounds and dimes. He then got into the flow of the game and the results were stellar.
5. E4 has this strange penchant when he gets a pass and is open for a three of pausing, dribbling and losing the open three. I noticed that last year as well.

I was only able to see bits and pieces of the game, including the stretch when DET got the lead down to 12 and we responded with a nice run. I am withholding judgment until after that 7game stretch but we certainly look more balanced and deep than last year and are trying to play a more interesting and fun brand of basketball.

No comments on Thibs bizarre insertion of RJ and Brunson at the end of the game? I’m not gonna get too crazy about it on a laugher night, but jeez, wtf? I mean, what if one of them got hurt? Thibs would get crucified and rightfully so.

Cam just seems so floppy and weak. He’s like a daddy long legs playing with a bunch of tarantulas. No reference to Kevin Durant intended there, although he’s the apex of that archetype of player. Cam just doesn’t have the skills, touch or consistency to do what Durant did at his age, but he thinks he does.

1. Going from no PG to a good one is clearly having a more positive impact than just the better play from Brunson. The offense is functioning much better when he’s on the running things.

2. Having this much depth is going to help us in the regular season. We have so many weapons someone is going to have a good matchup or go off almost every night. Come playoff time it will interesting to see what the lineup looks like assuming we get past the play in.

3. I like the Pistons young guards. It’s going to take a few years until they develop enough to make some noise and fill out the rest of the team, but they are good.

4. Good to see the old IQ

5. Cam was a little lazy at times on offense, but for the most part was good. The outside shot just didn’t fall.

6. This was the good version of RJ. The 3s aren’t dropping but he played within the game and not like the ghost of Kobe Bryant.

Alan, I wasn’t focused on Cam this game, which is one positive as it meant he wasn’t demanding my attention all the time. What I did notice was it was pretty much spread between really good plays (some impressive drives) and terrible ones (shooting bad threes early in the clock, etc.). He did that last one a couple of times, which was about the only time anyone took a shot out of the team rhythm. But overall he wasn’t complete hot garbage…

“No comments on Thibs bizarre insertion of RJ and Brunson at the end of the game?”

I thought it was stat stuffing.

Both are hoping to make the all star team.

RE: the under-rating of Brunson..
This is how you know most people who get paid to talk about sports don’t really understand the sport they’re talking about. A ton of media pundits undervalued and underrated the Brunson signing because he doesn’t put up gaudy numbers. I have long believed your point guard is the most important player on the floor. Just look at how much better Randle looks now that he doesn’t feel like he has to make every play. Why? He has a PG he can trust and who makes the game easier. Take RJ- yes he’s added to the game, but have you noticed how easy the game comes to him now? Bad shooting opener aside, of course. What I’m saying is- Brunson has calmed the team as the tone setter. That is very important to this team. I wouldn’t be mad if he averages 15ppg and 5 apg at all. As long as he’s shooting at his usual percentages and protecting the ball like usual. We don’t need playoff Brunson’s numbers to get playoff Brunson’s effect on this team. Yeah 2 games is a small sample size, but look at the way the team operates with him as the tone setter- including the preseason. Unfortunately, alot of people are gonna cry wolf about his contract if he doesn’t get 20ppg. And that’s just stupid. Oh, and he also saves Rose from extra wear and tear- so that’s great too. I don’t think his impact can be judged by numbers alone.

I don’t think Ainge is losing any sleep over these wins. He knew going into the season he had some veterans left that would win games, but he also has some young players that could use some direction from them. He went out and signed Olynyk. . If he gets the kind of deals he wants he’ll make some moves before the deadline, but right now I think he’s happier to see the young players getting better alongside the vets. Sure he wants the #1 pick, but he also wants his young players to look good. He might be able to swap a couple of them too and others could be part of the core of the future.

Great balance on offense. 29 assists. Shots attempted:
RJ/15
IQ/14
Randle/12
Obi/12
Brunson/11
Fournier/8
Reddish/8
DRose/6
Mitch/3

That’s pretty much ideal except Mitch needs more.

The lingering complaint/worry (bc Knicks fan) is that this was basically a practice. The Pistons did nothing. I wanna see how our guys play against teams with superior key matchups. Do we find a way to defend against their strengths (eg Ja and Adams) and use our better balance against their weaknesses to win. All TBD.

By the way, while we are all thrilled with Brunson’s play, his TS% is 51.3%.

One of the questions coming into the season was whether he could be as efficient coming from a team built with a lot of floor spacers around Doncic to a team with not enough space. So either the best is yet to come or he’s going to struggle a little to be as efficient. The answer is probably a little of both.

One thing I was reminded while watching highlights is how funky IQs jumpshot is, especially be on the three-point line. There are times where it looks like it’s a push shot, or even a set shot.

Katz asked Macri the other day if he thinks IQ will be remembered as a great shooter. He seems like he should be. But he is just so streaky.

Did not catch the game so can’t say too much about Cam. The NBA.com boxscore videos don’t look too bad on his shooting decisions. However, both his TOs looked like he was trying to do way too much

@Max

Nice, easy win. It was against a mediocre team

I think you give Detroit too much credit. They are very young and will end up becoming doormats. Maybe when Burks and Noel play they’ll be a worthy challenge. They played defense for about 2 minutes last night.

The Knicks should never lose to teams like this. The challenge will be to go .500 against the top half of the league. The Grizzly game is a much better gauge of where we are. Mitch couldn’t handle Adams, Memphis shut down RJ and IQ with tough defense in the paint. Obi wasn’t able to run on them.

Those issues disappeared miraculously last night because Detroit is not in the same league as Memphis.

@Alan:

One thing I was reminded while watching highlights is how funky IQs jumpshot is

I saw the same thing. He shoots fronlm his chest instead of above his head. I have to imagine that when smart teams study his play they will force him too drive by getting into his face on the perimeter and creating a big body wall between him and the basket. I don’t know that he’ll ever be able to change that stroke.

The most important question for me is whether Thibs coaches the team as constructed in the context of the modern NBA. So far the answer is yes, but there is a long way to go before I feel confident that he is actually doing it.

So far, Randle’s TS% is .610 on 24% usage. To me, those are the key indicators for team success this year.

Also, Brunson has a WS48 of .209 despite shooting not very well. His AST% is at 32.2% which is significantly above his career average and he hasn’t committed a turnover yet.

I’m really not going to stress too much about RJ, IQ, Obi, etc. They will all come around. But if Randle and Brunson give us those kinds of numbers give or take, we’re in for a helluva fun season.

@

Will be interesting if we’re doing well and everyone is thriving what Leon will do at the deadline.

My #1 prediction for this session is a major trade for a top-tier starter. 3 young players and 3 #1’s. The question is “who?”

Who indeed.

When I really think about who I would want the Knicks to trade for regardless of cost or how realistic, the only answers that come to mind at Jokic or Giannis. So many other stars are either aging out or now great fits or have injury concerns. I could be convinced of Zion if he shows he can actually be healthy. Maybe Booker? I honestly don’t know who we should target.

It would have to be someone on a team that’s imploding. Why would Jokic, for instance, want to leave Denver? So if that is the in-season plan, it’s going to take a few months to see which teams are drastically underperforming expectations.

Cam looked good in the last stretch.

I agree on Cade. Never been impressed with him or his numbers. Just not a live wire athlete. I think he will end up useful but not a star.

I too only caught snippets of the game due to family obligations. However, whenever I did, it seemed like Brunson or Quickly was doing something real positive.

Brunson has immediately shot up to being my favorite Knick, by far.

Her me is who I would trade for. Not saying any of these are realistic options. These are sort of in order of preference but not really:

Giannis
Jokic
Doncic
Ja Morant
Embiid (although this one would make me super nervous bc of the injury history)

After that there are some I could be talked into it for the right price guys:

Zion
Booker
Lavine
KAT
Tatum

Other than that, the rest of the all stars or recent all stars are all either too old or injured or come with too much baggage -Lebron, Durant, harden, Irving, AD, cp3, etc.

I don’t want us to trade a bunch of players and picks for like a one or two year window.

With the league being so even right now, I’d Al’s it just rather we stay Pat this season, let the team get and grow and see if we can address specific needs in free agency next year or try to get a next level below all star guy like Brunson again somehow.

“Giannis
Jokic
Doncic
Ja Morant
Embiid (although this one would make me super nervous bc of the injury history)”

What are you trading for them? They’ll all cost astronomically more than Donovan Mitchell.

Off-season: [fantastical trade proposals and endless bickering about them]

Season, game 2: “uh huh let’s keep doing that”

Dude all of those players are way better than Mitchell. Literally those are most likely the top 5 mvp guys.

I also specifically said regardless of how realistic it is. Which really brings me back to what I also said which is that I don’t think we should really do anything.

Did you read anything else I said?

I am going to agree on Brunson. Mitch is my favorite Knick. with Toppin and IQ close behind, but Brunson is in the mix with the latter now.

Other than Chandler I can’t think of a guy we signed who has been exactly what was advertised to such a degree.

I continue to worry that the usage splits will hinder Brunson but so far so good I guess. Scoring efficiency isn’t there yet but the overall impact is.

In strange Kblogger glitches news, I can’t seem to get the site to go into landscape mode. But it’s better than losing my edit function at least.

Biggest complaint so far this season is that Brunson and Fournier is just not workable defensively if we want to be decent. A healthy Grimes would make a big difference but even IQ would be a huge upgrade over Fournier.

Fournier just isnt good enough offensively to offset the defense pairing with Brunson

Kevin Knox -22 in 11 minutes. He does not play for us anymore. I can’t believe he’s off the bench for them. That’s not good.

I was watching Syracuse try to upset Clemson but after watching for about 15 minutes I realized college football is completely rigged

yeah…i turned it off…college football and basketball home referee’ing is so blantaly bad it is hard to watch…

We’ve got to feel pretty good right now, no?

OT loss to a premier team (despite Griz injuries) even with our 2nd unit uncharacteristically crapping their pants.

Blowout win against a team you should blowout.

The starting lineup USG% split is much better than last year.

IQ a per 36 reb & ast from a per 36 triple-double.

Randle showing hustle. Cam looking not awful.

@Alan

Very excited for Knives Out sequel, glad to hear it’s good

First movie might be my favorite of any any movie that’s come out since

I’m very happy. I love that we have a team of equals (well almost) thats tenish deep. Those are always my favorite types of teams to root for.

This particular team has an underdog flavor to it. We didn’t get a lot of respect (and probably didn’t deserve much) from the media in the preseason predictions, so we definitely have an opportunity to exceed expectations.

Next game against Orlando should be interesting. That one is one you circle as a W on the calendar but the Magic have some interesting pieces. They’ve given the keys to Jalen Suggs on offense, and so far he has had turnover problems. Paolo Banchero looks like a potential legit #1 option on offense, and although Wendell Carter hasn’t played great in the first two games, that is a potentially productive and versatile front court. Franz Wagner is a player too. They’re using Cole Anthony as the lead guard off the bench and that seems like a good role for him.

Still, they’re very young, lots of 20 and 21 year olds in the rotation, and they’re the kind of team we should be able to beat. Looking forward to that one.

So if Brunson finishes the season with an assist/turnover ratio of infinity, was that a good signing?

Two games in so anything can (and will) happen, but right now the team all-star is Thibs. He’s throwing player combos out there with near-reckless abandon (for Thibs), he’s got the whole team (looking at you Julius) buying into a team of equals, and he’s got them playing hard on both sides. I can’t remember two straight games where I wasn’t furious at him for some legitimately stupid thing or another, and right now the only bit that has me upset is the dead mouse on his head. I’m even okay with the beard.

Brunson’s a close second by dint of his taking the ball out of Julius’s hands AND keeping the team on an even keel, something the starters were terrible at last year. No melt downs.

Still early, but looking like a big third year breakthrough for Devin Vassell.

I feel like we’re gonna take Orlando very seriously this season bc our loss to them early last season was the start of things unraveling for us.

***Orlando should be interesting… They’ve given the keys to Jalen Suggs on offense… Paolo Banchero looks like a potential legit #1 option on offense… Wendell Carter hasn’t played great in the first two games, that is a potentially productive and versatile front court… Franz Wagner is a player too…***

Also, Bol Bol is averaging 8 blocks per 36 at the moment.

I wonder if this is Cashman’s Waterloo. Almost every move he made this season blew up in his face. I think for the most part, he has been a great channel manager, but sometimes, you just need a change

Mavericks v Grizzlies should be gear but apparently I am scheduled to watch a Newman/Woodward documentary

And Alan, not a Yankee fan, but the Astros are really really good.

I’m pleased that Bol Bol is still doing his thing.

Cole Anthony has turned out to be a way better pro than I thought he’d be.

Doncic with 21 on 10 shots in the first quarter as the Mavs lead the Grizzlies 39 to 17… Jesus.

Also 4 rebounds, 3 assists and no turnovers, just absolute domination.

Been flipping through league pass all evening and the only interesting game has been, as jk foresaw, the Magic/Celtic game. No d, but fun to watch young players play well.

Well, scratch that. Miami/Toronto just got entertaining for a sec

(Visions of pj brown and Charlie Ward dance before my eyes there in the 2nd row in Miami)

The thing you gotta love about Miami is that a fight breaks out and all twelve players end up in the 2nd row and no fans are threatened. Now, it’s a 3 point game with 8 seconds left and the arena looks like MSG when Greg Butler was on the court.

Mathurin doesn’t seem destined to be coming off the bench for long

Maybe for the All-Star game, but that really should be it

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