[theathletic.com] — Wednesday, September 28, 2022 5:00:47 AM
RJ Barrett’s journey to greatness for Knicks begins in the paint The Athletic
[clutchpoints.com] — Wednesday, September 28, 2022 1:52:36 AM
Derrick Rose subtly calls out Julius Randle, Knicks ClutchPoints
[bronx.news12.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 10:32:41 PM
Yankees take AL East Pennant, Knicks prepare for start of season News 12 Bronx
[kazimagazine.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:34:09 PM
How Brothers Knick George, Keith “Youngin” George II and Partner Lamont “Renzo” Bracy Changed the Entertainment Industry KAZI. Magazine
[www.si.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:30:47 PM
Knicks Decline Comment on Rick Brunson Conduct Allegations Sports IllustratedFrom his high turnover position, Tom Thibodeau says he’s unburdened by pressure: ‘NO ONE studies this team harder than I do’ New York Daily NewsKnicks coach Tom Thibodeau stands by Rick Brunson as team declines to address process behind his hiring The AthleticTom Thibodeau defends Knicks’ decision to hire Jalen Brunson’s father New York Post Leon Rose reveals Knicks’ main goal amidst offseason trade rumors Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News
[brooklyn.news12.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 8:54:43 PM
Knicks open training camp with hopes of returning to postseason News 12 Brooklyn
[dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 8:00:00 PM
Knicks must monitor unstable Suns situation in light of Deandre Ayton’s comments Daily Knicks
[www.basketballnetwork.net] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7:21:36 PM
“I knew immediately” ? Reggie Miller on scoring 8 points in 8.9 seconds against the New York Knicks Basketball Network
[nypost.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7:18:00 PM
New big man Isaiah Hartenstein ready to add different dimension for Knicks New York Post
[popculture.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 5:47:00 PM
New York Knicks Player Reveals Engagement PopCulture.com
[fadeawayworld.net] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 4:15:19 PM
Derrick Rose Named The Key For The New York Knicks This Season: “I Think What This Year Is All About Is Accountability” Fadeaway World
[www.si.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:55:12 PM
‘Proven’ Evan Fournier is Knicks’ Frontrunner at SG Sports IllustratedKnicks’ Evan Fournier picked as frontrunner for SG position New York Daily NewsNBA Insider says Knicks’ starting shooting guard job will be up for grabs in training camp | Ian Begley Yahoo SportsKnicks News: Evan Fournier ‘Front-Runner’ over Quentin Grimes to Start at SG Bleacher ReportNew York Knicks: Should Evan Fournier or Quentin Grimes start at SG? Sir Charles in ChargeView Full Coverage on Google News
[www.yardbarker.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 1:18:53 PM
‘We’re gonna shock the world’: RJ Barrett sends bold Knicks warning to rest of NBA Yardbarker
[heavy.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 11:34:26 AM
Former Knicks Center Blasted for Media Day Comments Heavy.com
[dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, September 27, 2022 10:00:00 AM
Carmelo Anthony signing with Celtics would be a nightmare for Knicks fans Daily Knicks
108 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.09.28)”
Zach Lowe had Bobby Marks on for a segment of yesterday’s podcast to propose potential Jae Crowder trades. Didn’t mention the Knicks/Randle once. Zach is convinced the Suns don’t want to add money in either the short or long term due to their tax bill and impending sale.
I’m going to the first preseason game, hopefully I’ll have more to report on than how Feron Hunt looked.
All kidding aside, four games is kind of an abbreviated preseason schedule, so I would guess that given the need to figure out fit within the rotation, the non-rotation guys beyond Cam, Deuce and Sims are not going to get much, if any, time. Maybe Keels and Hunt get a cameo, but mostly it should be the rotation guys. Of those 3, I would guess Cam gets the longest look.
I mentioned this before, but it’s kind of surreal that there isn’t any kind of injury report yet….fingers crossed!
On further reflection (in the win-now context) I would rather run Julius out there than dump him for Crowder at this point. I still have hope that Randle can turn it around, and at his best he’s a much more dynamic player than Crowder. Now that we’re in camp it’s worth a closer look to see whether the tandem of Brunson and Rose and the addition of Hartenstein, plus an offseason of reflection and renewal, can make a difference for Julius.
Please Z-man, no matter what happens don’t boo Julius.
“Fournier does not create for himself off the dribble well enough to just say “up his usage”. His usage and 2p% were down last year for that very reason. We didn’t have a PG getting him good looks and he was trying to create for himself which in turn lowered his efficiency.”
I suppose I’m not convinced that when Fournier put up a .595 TS% on 23.9% USG for the 2019-2020 Orlando Magic, it was due to the stellar point guard play of Markelle Fultz and DJ Augustin.
He was actually assisted on *fewer* of his baskets that year than he was in 2021-2022 (.437/.827 on 2s and 3s that year vs .478/.880 this past season).
His TS% with Fultz off the floor was still .584, while his usage went up to 27.7%. So there are more than a few reasons to not really buy what you’re selling.
Far be it from me to pretend I watched enough Magic games to know what accounted for the difference here, but I think the numbers support the notion that Fournier has a little more creation ability than he was allowed to show off this past season. He alluded to this himself a few times, which I normally wouldn’t lend much credence to, but there seems to be something to it in this case.
This is why I think him coming off the bench is a good idea even though I agree with those saying Grimes isn’t better in a vacuum. It might actually allow him to take on a *bigger* role in the offense. If he can be the highest usage player on the 2nd unit for 24-28 minutes per game and be as efficient as he was in Orlando, I think his trade value would be rehabilitated quickly.
Of course, it’d TBD if his 2PT% can recover enough to be that efficient again. Z-Man asked if I thought the decline was due to his role or due to physical decline, and my answer is I have no idea, because again, prior to him joining the Knicks I was not exactly an avid Evan Fournier observer.
The drop off is steep–in 2019-2020 he finished at the rim in the 82nd percentile among wings while this past season he was in the 17th.
Still, I don’t see what we have to lose by seeing if he can get back to where he was with the 2nd unit. It’s definitely not going to happen in the starting lineup, where I presume he’ll be 4th in usage behind Brunson, Randle, and RJ.
There are a lot of things to watch for, but to me the mains one are:
1. Hartenstein vs. Mitch
Does the team function better with the extra spacing Hartenstein brings to the table and does he look good enough overall to possibly win the starting job eventually?
Has Mitch added anything on offense?
Is Obi defending, making 3s consistently enough, and handling the ball well enough to start thinking about him as a legitimate stretch PF and starter on a contending team that features Mitch at C.
Is Cam in top shape, working hard on defense, and has he improved his shot selection and decision making? If he has, then maybe he’s the starting SF eventually. That gives us some extra length and athleticism with RJ moving to SG.
Seeing young players like Obi, Quick and Grimes develop is obviously important, but really the whole key to this season is RJ. If he doesn’t improve his efficiency, the Knicks are going nowhere.
(And he cannot lead the league again in shots blocked )-: )
“Far be it from me to pretend I watched enough Magic games to know what accounted for the difference here, but I think the numbers support the notion that Fournier has a little more creation ability than he was allowed to show off this past season.”
Did you watch any of the games last year that featured Fournier dribbling around trying to create for himself and throwing up trash?
He’s obviously better at it than a guy like Bullock. That why’s he was brought it. They wanted a more versatile player on offense to help Randle and still provide space. But he’s not a guy you give the ball to and tell to create something. He’s a guy that winds up being open because you have a functional offense with good spacing. We had no PG, poor spacing, and not much ball or player movement, which is why Randle was driving into double teams and RJ was getting his shot blocked in the paint. As bad as they were at it, they could at least try to do tougher things off the dribble.
Okay Strat, so why was Fournier able to be efficient on high usage with the Magic? Did he forget how to create for himself?
If you think he’s physically declined, go ahead and make the case. If you don’t, the numbers cut against everything you’re saying.
For my money, you’re underrating his creation abilities. He definitely had his share of ugly floaters and the like last season, but he also had more than a few games in which he showed an ability to hit step back threes that literally no one else on the team could pull off. Every now and then he’d show some craftiness around the rim too.
I feel very confident in saying he’s a better creator than Grimes right now, which is why I’d have him anchoring second units instead of playing the Bullock role while Randle and RJ brick away.
That Rick Brunson article is disappointing, but not surprising. It’s insane that the FO thinks they don’t have to answer whether they investigated him or not prior to the hire. I usually don’t care about the team’s media relations, but this antagonistic attitude leads them to some very very dumb places. How the hell do they not have some BS, PR-workshopped answer about the Rick Brunson process? So stupid. And Leon should be the one answering these questions. Making Thibs do it is cowardly.
If you’re going to the game, you’re not helping Randle regain his all star level. 😆
So supporting Randle now is kind of like when someone recommits to a toxic relationship, saying they’ll give it one more chance. Heck they’ve signed an expensive mortgage together so it was never gonna be easy to separate. And we did have that one good year during the pandemic.
But when we were on a break, we had a fling with someone new, and quite frankly we were happier than we’d been in years. Rather than the moodiness and outbursts, those few weeks were a joy, filled with joking, laughing and sharing. And the best part was how this new guy seemed to gel with all our friends.
So yeah, maybe things will work out with Randle. There have certainly been good times. But in the best of times has it ever been as good as it was during that brief fling with Obi?
But maybe Randle saw that and knew he would have to do more to get us to commit to him again.
And the wonderful thing is that, unlike in this painfully tortured metaphor, in the worst of the best case scenarios (Randle ends up being good enough, but at the expense of Obi’s playing time) maybe they can find a way for getting value for Obi by trading him or something…
TNFH I’m largely with you. I mentioned physical decline tongue-in-cheek because you seem resistant to the idea that all 3 of Julius, RJ and Fournier were impacted by the shitty spacing partially caused by playing with a shitty PG and a C who, as Katz put it, probably led the league in amount of minutes spent with at least one foot in the paint. The chemistry in the starting lineup was awful and everyone had a hand in it. I feel very strongly that if there is a physical decline element to either Randle’s or Fournier’s poor 2pt% it is most likely negligible. They are both healthy and in their respective primes, without nagging injuries that would cause decline at their respective ages, especially Randle. I mean RJ only got better physically and still had his worst year of finishing and 2pt scoring. It was mainly a lineup/fit/spacing problem.
But yes, Fournier is more than capable of creating and scoring in the paint than he showed last year. He’s just a really solid, well-rounded scorer. There are definitely things that can be unlocked there. Whether it’s in the starting lineup or not is open for debate, and it’s impossible to answer without more data.
while Randle and RJ brick away.
While I do appreciate all (well at least most) of your long posts and detailed reasoning of where improvement is needed, that short phrase describes perfectly our collective nightmare.
September 28, 2022 at 10:17
That Rick Brunson article is disappointing, but not surprising. It’s insane that the FO thinks they don’t have to answer whether they investigated him or not prior to the hire. I usually don’t care about the team’s media relations, but this antagonistic attitude leads them to some very very dumb places. How the hell do they not have some BS, PR-workshopped answer about the Rick Brunson process? So stupid. And Leon should be the one answering these questions. Making Thibs do it is cowardly.”
I disagree with this. From a strategic POV, not answering the questions is more likely to make the questions die down. Once the games start, no one is going to give a shit about Rick Brunson and his invisible role on the team. The only thing you can do by answering questions is risk saying something controversial that gives the issue oxygen.
It’s also silly to assume that Brunson wasn’t vetted to the degree necessary for the hire. The incidents were publicly addressed and well-documented. All that is necessary is that the severity is no greater than is known, and that there was no recurrence. Unless a story pops up out of the blue, it is no more relevant than Derrick Rose’s, or Gersson Rosas’s story. Not to mention that the owner himself is a world-class dirtbag.
Yesterday i trashed Fournier so today i’m going to balance things a bit by saying i’d start him 4 games because of his best quality – The Celtic Killer. 😀
Really? Because with this organization’s history with sexual harassment I would find it silly to assume they did any vetting at all.
“Okay Strat, so why was Fournier able to be efficient on high usage with the Magic? Did he forget how to create for himself?”
I didn’t watch Orlando all season. I wouldn’t know, but it imo wasn’t because Fournier is so good at creating efficient 2p shots by himself off the dribble. Most likely, the spacing and conditions were better, but I don’t need to know. I watched HIM last year.
These things are not black or white.
He’s better at it than a guy like Bullock, but he’s not a guy you want creating shots for himself regularly. Ideally, you want someone driving into the paint (this year primarily Brunson but also Randle and RJ) and when help comes you dish out to a shooter like Fournier. It could be as simple as we had a few weak outside shooters last year. So defenses preferred taking away the dish out to Fournier in favor of someone else.
You are trying to explain stats. I am looking at the player’s skills.
It’s also silly to assume that Brunson wasn’t vetted to the degree necessary for the hire.
I really did not like the Brunson hire but agree with Z-man’s take. I would assume after the incidents vetting for a high school coach would be infinitely more intense than vetting for an NBA team.
“while Randle and RJ brick away”
No one disputes that they have to be more efficient than they were last year for this team to win more than 37 games. The question is: what are the conditions that will lead to more efficiency? Having better shooting, floor spacing and penetration from other players are part of the solution. Having them understand that they have to defer more and make smarter decisions both on and off the ball is also part of the solution. Becoming more consistent shooters when wide open or when attacking the rim is part of the solution.
And tinkering with lineups should also be part of the solution. That part is mostly on Thibs (the FO can impact this either by intervention or by personnel moves.)
I just think too much is being made of lineup configerations at this early stage, given the major change on the roster at PG.
You guys are forgetting that Fournier seemed to have an injured shoulder at the beginning of last season but played anyway. He kept wearing black tape there for about half the season. Once the tape came off he seemed to be playing better and shooting threes better. That’s a physical problem, but not a decline.
“Really? Because with this organization’s history with sexual harassment I would find it silly to assume they did any vetting at all.”
Are we going back 15 years to the Isiah Thomas days? Beyond that, what is the organization’s history with sexual harrassment that makes it stand out in comparison to other organizations?
We have a training camp roster spot open because we’re still trying to add Montero.
15 years ago was when the initial sexual harassment claims were made and Dolan went against his lawyers’ advice to settle and fought it in court, before losing. Isiah Thomas remained employed by the Knicks for over a year after this happened, until 2008.
In 2010, the Knicks/Dolan tried to rehire Thomas but the NBA didn’t allow it because Thomas was also coaching an NCAA basketball team.
In 2013, the Knicks/Dolanre hired Steve Mills, who was the Knicks employee that threatened Browne-Sanders to drop the sexual harassment claims, as GM.
In 2015, the Knicks/Dolan hired Thomas to run the WNBA’s Liberty. Also in 2015, Dolan went on HBO and publicly accused Anucha Browne Sanders of making up the sexual harassment claims: https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/james-dolan-disputes-anucha-browne-sanders-allegations-article-1.2402941.
In 2017, the Knicks/Dolan promoted Steve Mills to POBO.
And, James Dolan was friends with Harvey Weinstein.
Exactly. When an organization has made this many mistakes re: sexual harassment AFTER the initial Isiah and Marbury incidents they better be ready to answer questions about the serial abuser they recently hired as a coach.
All of these issues stem from Isaiah’s situation that occurred in 2007 or before. They were indeed handled poorly but if they settled rather than went to trial, I don’t see how that would have changed the culpability of the franchise. In any case, the incidents themselves are ancient history, given that we live in a different corporate space today than we did back then. Unless you can tell me about someone they have since hired that later turned out to have unknown skeletons in the closet, why should it be assumed that they don’t vet at all? Maybe they don’t believe that folks should be blackballed for life.
Harvey Weinstein was not employed by Dolan, so I don’t see how it has any bearing on this conversation, which is about vetting practices.
I’m hoping for the best from these lineups, but I think we have to understand that we have 3 guys that like to drive to the basket (Brunson, RJ and Randle) and C that going to clog things up. Fournier is the only real shooter.
We still have many of the same spacing issues. So we are still likely to have efficiency issues inside that may even cause Brunson to decline.
As the PG, Brunson has to be the main one driving and kicking.
Cybersoze, thanks for the news about Montero. I was kind of expecting him to get a camp invite. Now I know why he is not there.
Probably a stupid question, but why isn’t Rokas getting a camp invite? Is it because as long as he is on contract with Barcelona he can’t? Or the consensus is he needs another year there?
BTW if you google Knicks, nothing about the vetting of Rick Brunson comes up. That suggests that not answering those questions is not generating a lot of buzz. Like it or not, it seems like the correct PR move.
I don’t think Thibs comments means Fournier is a lock. If you asked him the same thing about Randle or RJ or Brunson or even Mitch, he probably would say they were “front runners” just that they’re the starters.
I think he’s giving himself some room here to make the change if Grimes really shows up and outperforms Fournier. But if he declared Grimes the starter now and Grimes didn’t live up to it, it would be harder for him locker room wise to promote Fournier back into the starting line-up after demoting him like that. This also motivates both players to play harder.
I think Fournier would be fine coming off the bench. He doesn’t seem like a big ego guy. But I think it makes sense to give the vet the nod. Grimes has potential but he didn’t play that many minutes last year. Fournier we know is very good at 3 point shooting.
Rick Brunson seems like a shitty person just based on publicly available information. It’s not like he’s taken responsibility and tried to make amends. His position seems to be that multiple women who have never met or spoken to one another have completely fabricated serious allegations against him. Sure.
No need to sugarcoat the fact that it’s shitty he’s on the team. It’s definitely indicative of an organizational tolerance of this behavior that starts at the top.
Dolan seems to have taken a welcome step back from basketball matters in recent years, but the stink won’t be off this organization until he sells.
You don’t understand how settling and admitting fault changes vs fighting the charges changes culpability?
Is 7 years ago, which is when Dolan went on television and publicly accused the victim of the sexual harassment, ancient history?
We’ve hired three people with known skeletons in their closet (Isiah Thomas, Steve Mills, and Rick Brunson). Why do only unknown skeletons matter?
Z-man, Fred Katz and The Athletic’s TWolves beat writer did a whole deep dive on the allegations and the Knicks’ lame response at media day:
Bernie, it was reported back in the summer that Rokas didn’t plan to come over to the NBA this season, and thus wouldn’t be with us for summer league or training camp.
I suppose his attitude could change if significant NBA playing time appeared for him, whether from NYK trading away a bunch of point guards or his rights being traded to another team with an opening. But otherwise, he seems prepared to work on his game over there for one more year.
I know it is preseason, but I would like to see maybe Fournier and Grimes each start a game or 2 to see how they interact with the rest of the starters. I am leaning towards having Fournier come off the bench. I like what some have said, about that would give him an opportunity to be more of a focus on offense then with the starters who will have JB, JR and RJ taking a lot of shots.
Thanks Alan. I figured there was an explanation why swifty didn’t include him in his reasons to be cheerful this season.
The Athletic article really drives home how bizarre our general approach to the media is. The CIA is more transparent than this basketball team.
Putting aside whatever one thinks of the importance of being communicative with the media for general accountability reasons, I don’t like rooting for an organization that instructs its personnel to be dicks to people.
Most people in the media are good people who are trying to get fans information they want. There’s no good reason to do things this way.
Dolan seems to think “the media” is the reason the Knicks have sucked for so long, as opposed to anything involving the countless god awful basketball decisions they’ve made.
The frustrating part is when younger Knicks fans take the organization’s side on this attitude: “I don’t care what Leon has to say about anything!” or “Why should we give away our strategy to other teams?” Etc. Yet somehow, the people running some of the most successful teams in the league have no problem speaking with the press early and often, while we have been godawful for all but a few years of the Dolan media blackout era.
Holy shit this quote is fucking terrible.
I keep on thinking we can’t go any lower and yet the Knicks refuse to put down the fucking shovel and stop digging.
September 28, 2022 at 12:09
Z-man, Fred Katz and The Athletic’s TWolves beat writer did a whole deep dive on the allegations and the Knicks’ lame response at media day”
Right, and one day later, no one is writing about it. And even in the article, what’s emphasized is the FO’s bizarre non-availability to the media.
But considering that they have been roasted by the media since forever (rightfully so, but still…) it’s not outlandish that they have taken the radical approach that they have. I think that one of the prime directives of this FO was to rebrand the team as something other than the sports world-wide laughingstock clown show they have been for over two decades. Regardless of how we (or the media) feels about it, it seems to be working to a greater degree than anything they have done in recent memory. They get bashed on the day something happens, then stories fade away quickly. They don’t have to continually do damage control because of idiotic or conflicting statements made by various parties within the organization.
In most cases, people have already formed opinions anyway. For example, you either thing the Brunson hire was wrong or you don’t really care. If they publicly get into the vetting process, all they are going to do is give the people who thought it was wrong more ammunition to second-guess the hiring.
And if something else comes out about Brunson, are the haters going to care if they said all the right things when they hired him? Of course not.
September 28, 2022 at 12:34
Holy shit this quote is fucking terrible.
“With all their employees, they’re gonna do the same thing,” Thibodeau said. “So, that’s part of getting hired here. The thing is — you gotta remember he got hired in Minnesota. He was hired; he was (at a) high school. He’s here. So, I’m comfortable. I know who he is.”
I keep on thinking we can’t go any lower and yet the Knicks refuse to put down the fucking shovel and stop digging.”
Case in point. Thibs should have just said that that’s a question for the FO and left it at that. But by saying anything, folks like TC were ready to pounce, even though Thibs essentially said that everyone who is hired is vetted via a consistent process.
I think Thibs was correct initially in saying “it’s a question for Leon”. Thibs is the coach. His responsibility is coaching basketball. It’s on human resources and management to say “Your friend Rick may be a good basketball guy and hiring him may help the team land his son, but he’s not suitable for employment in this organization” if they review the cases and come to that conclusion. It’s not on the coach to investigate things like that and say anything publicly, especially when he’s apparently a friend.
“Dolan seems to think “the media” is the reason the Knicks have sucked for so long, as opposed to anything involving the countless god awful basketball decisions they’ve made.”
I don’t see it as much as “blaming the media for the Knicks sucking” as I do “resenting the media for the gratuitous and deeply personal piling on when they suck due to bad decisions compounded by stupid statements defending those decisions.”
It’s still thin-skinned and possibly detrimental, but understandable. Maybe things will change if the team experiences some sustained success, but for now, laying low is probably not the worst strategy.
Z–Man, while I think you’re ostensibly correct in your response to Alan above, I think you’re missing the point. It’s certainly sensible to shut the fuck up when you consistently make decisions that are indefensible and then have a long, long track record of repeatedly sticking your foot in your mouth and making things even worse.
But it would kind of be nice if you didn’t make indefensible decisions, so you didn’t have to repeatedly fail to defend them.
And also that maybe you developed speaking skills that did not involve mumbling idiocy over your Air Jordans, but again, the easiest way to avoid that particular pratfall is not making decisions that force you to stumble around on the razor blades of indefensibility.
Oh god, I hope I didn’t hurt Thib’s feelings when I just accused him of being a shithead by blowing off multiple credible accusations of sexual assault and harassment spanning multiple years because he also worked at a high school; after all, we all know that high schools, particularly ones in Camden, NJ, have the resources to investigate all their hires and that none of their employees ever commit sex crimes.
But don’t worry, you’re here to defend the front office at all costs and explain to us that it’s dumb to judge the team based on its actions or results. We should just be basing our feelings on something else.
Okay, you just kind of said that. I’ll go back to my… not sure what.
I think Dolan sees the NY media as a personal adversary and as an incremental obstacle to landing top tier talent because players don’t want their dirty laundry or issues with the team blowing up into national news and making things more difficult for themselves and family. How much that weighs into a player’s thinking, I don’t know. It’s probably an individual thing. But it has been mentioned. For better or worse Dolan’s response is to try to cut the media off and keep all the dirt and mistakes in house, his own and everyone else’s.
Rokas likely won’t come over until (1) his Euro contract is up or (2) the Knicks clear sufficient cap space to pay his buyout and then some.
Option (1) is more beneficial for the Knicks because the Knicks can pay him like a rookie instead of using up the MLE or whatever. The buyouts are pretty strong deterrents because the player needs to pay them and they often exceed the salary they’re likely to make that year in the NBA.
We retain rights on Rokas regardless and should get him cost controlled for more of his prime. It’s not a bad thing to keep him in Europe.
“But it would kind of be nice if you didn’t make indefensible decisions”
Raven, this is the gist of it. When you make bad decisions, there’s no way to defend them without looking even worse.
So the key is to make better decisions. And that’s really what’s at issue here.
Was it a good decision or a bad decision to hire Rick Brunson?
Some are already in the camp that it was a terrible decision that reeks of nepotism, cronyism, tampering, sexual misconduct apologism, whatever.
Others are in the camp that it was a brilliant decision because it facilitated the best available PG in free agency to shun all offers to sign here. (and there are varying opinions about the signing on its own merits, although most have given at least lukewarm praise.)
And then there are those who don’t really care, beyond hoping that its status as a distraction has the shortest shelf life possible.
What I don’t agree with at this time is the assumption that it was a terrible decision on its merits, in line with so many terrible decisions the FO celebrated and defended in the past, and that the FO is trying to sweep it under the rug, like they’ve done so many times in the past. There is literally nothing to gain by trying to placate those who view every current decision through the lens of the past. Nothing they say will work with them. And based on the lack of follow-up today, few but the longtime FO haters seem to care very much., certainly not nearly as much as whether Thibs will start Fournier or Grimes. So why bother?
BTW, my personal opinion is that Rick Brunson is not hired without Jalen Brunson being a UFA. My guess is that there were internal discussions about the PR hit of hiring him, and the conclusion was that it was a small price to pay for landing Brunson. My guess is also that they believe that Rick’s transgressions were appropriately addressed and not likely to be an issue during his time here. It was a clever, calculated move to steal Jalen away from one of the savviest and most ruthless owners in the NBA. Despite appearances, it worked like a charm! (at least for now!)
If all of this is true, I don’t know what they could possibly have said to the media that wouldn’t backfire in some way, especially given the longstanding media circus tht revels in Knicks controversy.
“Was it a good decision or a bad decision to hire Rick Brunson?”
I think that depends on what he actually did.
I’m not the judge or jury.
I don’t know what he actually did or what the punishment should be.
On a scale of 1-10, it was probably quite a bit lower than what Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose were accused of doing.
One of them is already in the Hall of Fame and the other has no problem finding work in the NBA.
IMO, the punishment should fit the crime. And I said the other day, be consistent. It seems some people are upset enough to essentially be saying he is unfit for employment anywhere in NBA basketball anymore. Maybe they are right, but it sure isn’t consistent.
How can it be a “question for Leon” if he doesn’t talk to the press? 😀
I wouldn’t like to elaborate on the topic, so i’ll just say that i’d much prefer if the Knicks didn’t have guys with shady past and/or positions (Rosas, Rick Brunson, Dolan). Although i understand Alan’s position, and others, i open an exception for DRose. He didn’t pay for his sin, but he now seems a changed man, a family man, a guy that helps others, and a nice guy all around. I’m agnostic but my education is catholic so i believe in 2nd chances, and DRose seems deserving to me.
VW is tall
Although crap, not even sure it’s him. Has to be though
It’s him, yeah. And if you stop the video towards the end you can read the name on the shirt.
“Oh god, I hope I didn’t hurt Thib’s feelings when I just accused him of being a shithead by blowing off multiple credible accusations of sexual assault and harassment spanning multiple years because he also worked at a high school; after all, we all know that high schools, particularly ones in Camden, NJ, have the resources to investigate all their hires and that none of their employees ever commit sex crimes.”
The reality is that he was found innocent after a trial regarding the sexual assault accusation and we don’t know any details regarding his unwanted advances beyond that the accuser was not an employee of the Mavericks. But hey, if you think he’s a sociopath who has no business working in any capacity in the NBA, and that Thibs’ job is to throw him or the FO under the bus after the was hired, you’re entitled to your opinion.
“But don’t worry, you’re here to defend the front office at all costs and explain to us that it’s dumb to judge the team based on its actions or results. We should just be basing our feelings on something else.”
I think any fair reading of our posts would conclude that you are much closer to having a rigid agenda than I am. Beyond that, I’ll continue to assume that each reader of my posts is perfectly capable of deciding for themselves why I’m here without your help. Or whether anything I posted today merited this pretty vicious personal attack from you.
About Rokas, please temper your expectations, he had a good first season but he was a backup all season long. Let’s see if this season he can improve and get to starter status. I think it’s very good for the Knicks to have the player being developed on a very good league against a lot of former NBA players, and only bring him here when he’s ready. After watching him in his first season, i’m leaning towards him needing 2 more seasons before joining the Knicks. Unless he has a breakout season, but that would be a good problem to have.
Max would be way better than me explaining Rokas development, but in his absence i tried my best. Where are you, Max? We miss you, come back and tell us about Rokas, and also how was the Dolomites expedition this year. 🙂
“I think that one of the prime directives of this FO was to rebrand the team as something other than the sports world-wide laughingstock clown show they have been for over two decades.”
And they just hired Rick Brunson in order to recruit his son in free agency so … mission not accomplished.
“Or whether anything I posted today merited this pretty vicious personal attack from you.”
You’re shilling again. The T’Wolves fired Brunson after they found out what he did.
“You’re shilling again. The T’Wolves fired Brunson after they found out what he did.”
He technically resigned, which is common knowledge. But beyond that, where did I say that he was innocent?
Meanwhile, Becky Hammon just won a WNBA title during her first year as a head coach. But Thibs brings that old school grit and grind, so…
We do know that that something happened and that Brunson admitted a sexual relationship with the woman. And we know that he used Patrick Ewing’s name to cover his tracks which should be disqualifying on its own.
Timberwolves, not the Mavericks. And we also know that the Timberwolves conducted their own internal investigation and found that Brunson had committed unspecified wrongs towards women. And it wasn’t one woman it was multiple women, just the most recent wasn’t an employee (and I have no idea why her being an employee or not matters to you).
LOL, do you think Brunson was hired in spite of Thibs’ protests? Brunson’s worked for Thibs in Chicago and Minnesota; Thibs is just as culpable as the rest of the organization for Brunson being here.
Yes, I have a rigid agenda against sexual harassment and sexual abuse; I don’t know why you think that’s a bad thing or why you apparently support sexual harassment and abuse? Because it sounds like you’re saying sexual harassment and sexual assault is ok in certain circumstances.
And I understand your confusion about the tone of my previous comment, it’s not as if you’ve used any truly offensive language like “incinerated pick” but maybe go back and reread what you’ve written and see where I might have taken offense.
“It’s hypocritical for us to be unhappy that the Knicks hired Rick Brunson because Kobe Bryant is in the Hall of Fame” is a pretty strange take.
Grimes apparently in a walking boot at the moment. Like Joe Girardi used to say, it’s not what you want.
Furthermore, the Knicks deleted the tweeted video that showed Grimes in the boot. So they’re being very normal about it, as usual!
That is so bush league. Like we won’t find out he is not practicing.
i heard through the grapevine..he slipped on a buttered croissant and nobody knows how it got by his locker…
Gen Z Knicks Twitter: “I completely respect the decision! You don’t want to give away a competitive advantage to the opposition! Go Leon!”
Pepper, that’s funny!
CAM THIS IS YOUR MOMENT!
Funny but also true. If Cam can’t make the most of however many days Grimes is out, then he may as well go home.
Some bits from the Katz piece on Barrett:
“He says he spent the summer zeroing in on three elements of his game: decision-making with the ball, finishing in the paint and free throws. No mention of the jumper. No mention of the 3.
From New Year’s Eve through the end of the season, a 47-game stretch, he took 7.7 shots per game at the rim. Only LeBron James, Ja Morant and Giannis Antetokounmpo took more. That’s some company.
He realizes his greatest chance to become an All-Star — which he reaffirmed Monday is his goal heading into every season — is to play more like Jimmy Butler than James Harden.
Amongst the 44 qualifying players who took at least five shots at the rim last season, Barrett shot the worst percentage. Infiltrating the middle of the floor is the hard part. Now he needs to learn how to finish the job — or at least be better than 44th out of 44.
Too many times last season Barrett flew to the rim, felt three defenders around him and forced up a shot anyway. He wants to find teammates who line the 3-point arc more often when defenses send help.”
We shall see… although I’m still not sure that spending an entire summer working on passing out of a triple-team is the best use of one’s time…
Grimes is in a walking boot due to ‘foot soreness’. Not great!
That’s pretty much exactly what I would have told Barrett to work on if he had asked me (only mildly surprised that he didn’t). Worked on over the summer isn’t the same as capable of executing in a game but that’s basically a perfect roadmap of how RJ can become very good on offense in my opinion: keep showing the elite ability to take the ball to the rim, but pass out instead of taking really hard shots if he can’t get all the way there, finish strong when he does get all the way there, and make his FTs when he gets fouled. RJ really does seem to have a good awareness of his strengths and weaknesses and that has to be a good thing.
The good thing is that shots at the rim for RJ are still good shots for the Knicks even though he is relatively terrible at making them. Getting to the rim that often is very good.
“But by saying anything, folks like TC were ready to pounce, even though Thibs essentially said that everyone who is hired is vetted via a consistent process.”
Is this what set you off? I certainly didn’t mean to offend or insult you, but I can see why it came across that way, so I apologize for that.
I only was trying to make the point that no matter what either Thibs or the FO says in public, for those (like you) who have a long history of being viscerally offended by the Knicks slimy governor and his regimes in general including Leon, Thibs, etc., the hiring of Brunson is yet another example of their wanton tolerance of harrassment in the workplace. Hence, those (like you) are not going to be swayed by anything they say in response to a question about it. Thibs tried to answer the question and only made things worse with those (like you) who were not going to accept any spin they offered. Others (like me) don’t really care very much about the answer because I had no major problem with the hire as a way to ensure that they got Jalen Brunson (whose character is widely thought to be impeccable) in the fold. It is slimy but so is so much about the NBA and many of its franchises. So why bother saying anything?
I truly have no issue with anyone hating Dolan, Rose, Thibs, Derrick Rose or anyone else associated with this team for any reason. We all have different tolerance levels for whatever this crazy franchise throws at us.
things are going well at work…starting to understand my role and contribute a bit…fortunate to work with a good team, a lot of good people…
no question though, I would love to retire, right now, today…
enjoy for me please z-man…go to bed with no thoughts of work tomorrow…
““It’s hypocritical for us to be unhappy that the Knicks hired Rick Brunson because Kobe Bryant is in the Hall of Fame” is a pretty strange take.”
I’m not going to be the morality judge and decide what is appropriate punishment in each case and I’m not talking about anyone here specifically. But imo there’s nothing strange about thinking that people unhappy about Brunson being hired should be equally or more unhappy that Kobe is in the Hall of Fame. I don’t necessarily see that kind of consistency across the NBA or among fans. They pick and chose when to get upset and when to forgive based on factors other than the offense. That’s not my style.
I have mixed feelings about that RJ article.
1. We know he needs work finishing at the rim.
2. We know some of the problem was bad reads where he forced shots that he should have passed on.
3. We know that when he started attacking the rim he was getting fouled a lot. So improving his FT% would help his efficiency.
4. We know he gets his shot blocked a lot by taller longer players when he goes inside.
Working on all these things makes perfect sense, but I think some of the problem is that he doesn’t have the height, length, athleticism, or maybe even strength at this stage to become an elite finisher against what are often bigger, longer, and stronger SFs. That’s one reason I keep bringing up the idea of moving him back to SG. At some point Cam is going to get minutes. I’d like to see him get those minutes with RJ just so we can see how well RJ finishes when being guarded by smaller men.
Also, I’m not crazy about the fact that it doesn’t seem he worked on 3s much. I don’t think he needs to be top 3 point shooter, but it would be nice if he at least shot corner 3s a hell of lot better than last year. When they take away the paint or there’s a guy like Gobert in there, you need something else in your bag of tricks.
geo, you should be so proud of yourself for getting to this point. Keep rockin’ it, one day at a time! I’m still in denial but getting some things done around the house…just finishing up a sheetrock taping job that I’ve been staring at for months, posting while coats of mud dry.
back in 2000 got diagnosed by some doc on vacation while i was chilling with a buddy in puerto escondido, standing by a hotel pool…
guy walked up and said: my wife told me not to speak with you, but god told me to tell you something is wrong with your kidneys or thyroid…
two things i remember most from coming back from that, whenever i woke up in the morning and got out of bed, all this dead skin would slough off, it looked like a snake had just molted there…the other thing i remember was walking up the stairs at the del monte shopping center to go to the walden book store to work (best job ever), those stairs hurt sooooo much, i would be in tears by the top…
i’m sleeping/eating/fitnessing better than i have in decades – surprisingly work is really wearing me out though…in the house, smoking a churchwarden – with some most excellent pipeweed 🙂 sitting in shorts and t-shirt…just intently focusing on work though, is requiring more energy than i thought it could…
just finishing up a sheetrock taping job that I’ve been staring at for months, posting while coats of mud dry.
that’s the good stuff there…nice…
i see the first game is oct 19 in memphis, that should be a very competitive game…we seem to match up well with them…
it’ll be interesting to see how we defend against speed, like ja morant kind of speed…4 of our 5 starters are more “physical” style players, evian is neither physical, fluid or quick 🙂
hmmmm, i can’t wait to see our second unit play together…run like hell…a lot more enjoyable style of basketball to watch…
just saw bogarts has slipped down to .310…that’s a good thing…
who sits when LeMahieu comes back? donaldson?
I’d be glad to never see Josh Donaldson play again. Talk about a hard guy to root for.
In an ideal world, though, Gleyber could slide over to short stop so DJ could play second and IKF could sit. But I doubt they will put him at SS other than in an emergency.
Since we have been talking Sopranos
***Dolan went on television and publicly accused the victim of the sexual harassment, ancient history?***
I still appreciate irony of being demeaned for driving a Tesla by a bunch of Dolan-era Knick fans…
The Braves never lose
Judge did it!
Wow, with the bases loaded the Marlins bring in the pitcher who got called for 3 balks last night…and the ump who called them is behind the plate tonight.
And the Mets tie it up!
The Braves lost!
Thank you, CJ Abrams!
Where’s your god now, JK?
“It’s gonna be amazing. He’s definitely a great passer…he’s telling me…’always know I might pass it.’ Having a big like that being able to pass out the post…stretch the floor, it’s amazing. We’ve been working this whole summer”
– Obi Toppin on new big Isaiah Hartenstein
Buck has a bit of Yogi Berra in him…sometimes I don’t know what the hell he’s saying but I never get tired of listening to him.
Hart is one of those 4+ BPM guys that TNFH thinks we need. Obi is probably seeing that.
RIP Coolio, all-time great rapper name
This is exactly why I’ve been raving about the iHart/Obi pairing.
Hartenstein is the player Obi needs.
Zion Williamson looks like he’s about to fuck some people up.