2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. The Vestiges of the Nets

The Knicks host their crosstown rival Brooklyn Nets tonight. Due to Kevin Durant’s injury, Kyrie Irving’s stupidity and Ben Simmons’…whatever, the Nets will be without their three star players as well as their pretty good #4 option, Joe Harris (who has an annoyingly lingering injury following ankle surgery where he is not officially out for the season but it feels like is essentially out for the season).

The Knicks, meanwhile, will be without Nerlens Noel (out with the same knee issue, I guess?) and RJ Barrett (out with Thibs’ stupidity – by the way, the Knicks totally know RJ is hurt more than they initially said, right?).

The Nets will be starting:

PG: Patty Mills
SG: Seth Curry
SF: Bruce Brown Jr.
PF: Kessler Edwards
C: Andre Drummond

That is not a good team at all, but hey, neither are the Knicks. Still, that Nets lineup is so bad that I think the odds are that the Knicks pull this off, much to my annoyance.

Let’s have ourselves a ball!

260 replies on “2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. The Vestiges of the Nets”

Kessler Edwards’s career high is only 17 and he’s expected to start. My money is on him.

I’d guess at least 23 from him.

This is our Super Bowl. Lose this one and we are set. Going into the break losers of 3 in a row all against teams we had no business losing to, including our crosstown rival. It will be open season in the press on Thibs and Rose. It will get brutal.

Ben R:
This is our Super Bowl. Lose this one and we are set. Going into the break losers of 3 in a row all against teams we had no business losing to, including our crosstown rival. It will be open season in the press on Thibs and Rose. It will get brutal.

Lol, these 3 games have really felt like a tank bracket of increasingly terrible teams we’re being challenged to lose against.

yeah cyber, the quik stuff has been pretty disappointing for a while now…i’m not sure exactly where his game has disappeared to…

he’s just killing us out there at times…julius too…it’ll be like multiple possessions in a row where they’ll just check out or fail miserably at executing…

heck, that might describe the whole team…

Lol, these 3 games have really felt like a tank bracket of increasingly terrible teams we’re being challenged to lose against.

And the crazy thing is that, like, winning any one of those three games against shitty teams would likely give them enough to say, “Let’s go for the play-in game, baby!”

Which is why I assume that after tonight’s game, it’ll be “Let’s go for the play-in game, baby!”

Brian Cronin: And the crazy thing is that, like, winning any one of those three games against shitty teams would likely give them enough to say, “Let’s go for the play-in game, baby!”

Which is why I assume that after tonight’s game, it’ll be “Let’s go for the play-in game, baby!”

I agree, except I think they’re dumb enough to think that even after we lose today

Thanks for the video THCJ. Very educational.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get Rokas on the roster this season?

If Rose can’t get the son of one of his first clients to come here as a FA, what does that say about his ability to bring on other FA’s?

My money is on Thomas for new career high.

“IQ is at .501 TS% this season. That’s insane to me.”

He’ll be fine as soon as we stop pretending he’s a PG and allow him to play off the ball like he should be. We have to keep the expectations realistic. He’s most likely going to be a 6th man scorer of the bench. I just hope he’s playing off the ball soon because I don’t think these struggles trying to be a PG are helping his development at what his ultimate role is going to be.

Ben R: I’m going big and saying Seth Curry career high tonight.

Wow, he’s at 37. But yeah, i thought about him too. 😉

Despite serving my obligatory military service as a tank commander! (M48 Molf) I don’t really like nba tanking but… sometimes it’s The Best to do.
And now it’s That Time!

GHenman: Does anyone know if it is possible to get Rokas on the roster this season?

I haven’t seen anything about his buyout, but there’s almost certainly a buyout cost.

We could only offer him the minimum this year, so he won’t come over.

We can bring Rokas over next year for part of the MLE or the biannual. If we use the biannual, it’s only 2yrs of control and then he becomes a RFA.

Looking at the standings we really can’t tank ourselves that much lower at this point. We should just play the kids more and let whatever happens happen.

Jumbotron to Thibs:
“shit down, relax and play those who re not allowed to drink yet”

DRed:
Looking at the standings we really can’t tank ourselves that much lower at this point.We should just play the kids more and let whatever happens happen.

We could pass NOP, POR, SAC, and if we really tried SAS.

Sacramento and New Orleans made major win-now moves at the deadline, so we should be able to pass them. I know Portland looks frisky lately but that roster is pretty barren so I don’t have much faith we can dip below 8th, but who knows.

Doesn’t Drummond usually abuse Mitch?

This is the kind of matchup that’s a good test for him to see where he’s at. We know he can dominant when Gobert is out. Lol

JVG speaking his truth re Knicks.
James D will be very unhappy if his Knicks get humiliated vs. Crosstown Nets minus Durant and Irving on national TV.

3 pointers giveth and they take away…..for the Knicks the latter is usually in the 4th quarter.

Good Julius in the house

i think thibs leaves him in for too long of stretches, as soon as he starts putting both hands on his knees and breathing like crazy – give him some rest…

the more tired he gets the sloppier he plays…

although, he can sure start the first and third throwing the ball all over the court…

geo: i think thibs leaves him in for too long of stretches, as soon as he starts putting both hands on his knees and breathing like crazy – give him some rest…

Yeah, he’s already missing shots…

Edit: And last year it was understandable, Obi was bad. This year, doesn’t make sense.

Yeah, he’s already missing shots…

the good and the bad of thibs is that it seems he doesn’t really give a fuck – he’s just gonna do what he’s gonna do…

honestly, a year and a half in to his tenure and i don’t think there’s much question that he sucks at managing player health…

he’s reckless…

cybersoze: Edit: And last year it was understandable, Obi was bad. This year, doesn’t make sense.

Thibs: “Wait, are you saying there’s something about this year that makes it different from last?”

“8 points on 3 shots for Grimes. Is that good?”

That would be a good season for Frank. 🙂

Raven: Thibs: “Wait, are you saying there’s something about this year that makes it different from last?”

LOL

“I do suspect Randle leads the league in fouls on him that go uncalled”

He has to go to the Gallinari school for drawing fouls in the off season.

The Grimes love is almost universal but also very recent because he barely played. Which was dumb.

Blake griffin launches a 25 foot brick…mark Jackson “now…that’s not a good shot”….thanks mark

“The Nets are clearly tanking :D”

They are trying to prevent us from getting a PG in the draft. 🙂

So, can they still lose this game?

Of course they can.

But this WOULD be the game they sent Deuce down to the G. Damn them.

I can’t BELIEVE they’re putting Randle back in with Obi playing so well and with a 26 point lead.

Raven:
I can’t BELIEVE they’re putting Randle back in with Obi playing so well and with a 26 point lead.

Gotta cut it to 10 by the half.

“I can’t BELIEVE they’re putting Randle back in with Obi playing so well and with a 26 point lead.”

Thibs tank move!!! He’s on team tank!!!! Lol

if drummond were a cheetah he’d be the fastest cheetah to ever swim half the english channel

This Nets team is playing exactly like Harden described, not putting the effort to win the game.

It just sucks that the greatest basketball city in the world has such shit teams to root for.

That Randle shot is the epitome of “being a phucking moron” and of course he complains after like the fool he is ..

Let’s see. Your starting center who’s a long, skinny twig is in foul trouble against the enormous guy who the cheetah took to cross the English Channel. You have an enormous young guy with serious hops to counter the ferry boat, so you play the short old guy instead.

Yeah, I get that…

Tommy Beer:
Deuce McBride is on pace to become the first G League player ever to average more than 25 points, nine assists and two steals per game over an entire season.

Almost there tonight. 2 pts less.

cybersoze: Tommy Beer:
Deuce McBride is on pace to become the first G League player ever to average more than 25 points, nine assists and two steals per game over an entire season.

Almost there tonight. 2 pts less.

  

I feel so bad for him that we have no need for a point guard.

Randle just missed from point blank. Could it be that he plays more minutes than he should?

The moments where we need a sound, smart approach to a possession to stop the bleeding, we get Julius Randle and Evan Fournier making hot garbage decisions and taking hot garbage shots … and a coach who just watches the building go up in flames

pretty sure this season is actually cobra kai but for teen wolf and thibs is about to sub himself in and reveal that michael j fox was actually the bad guy

On national TV we’re not going to see Bounce propose. I’ll need a photo to believe in it. 😀

cybersoze:
Randle just missed from point blank. Could it be that he plays more minutes than he should?

I have maintained for a while that giving Randle a more normal amount of minutes is in his own best interests. He is visibly gassed all the time.

The Knicks find a lot of interesting ways to lose games, but if they lose this one they should probably just forfeit the rest of the season. Thibs is going to have a stroke.

The good news is that they usually start throwing up brick 3s late in the game. So maybe they got it out of their system earlier this time after that ridiculously hot start.

Deeefense!!: they should probably just forfeit the rest of the season.

If this was an option our franchise would probably be in a much better place

thenoblefacehumper: I have maintained for a while that giving Randle a more normal amount of minutes is in his own best interests. He is visibly gassed all the time.

Right on. Thibs’s “loyalty” doing a disservice.

It’s easy to see where this is headed. We’re going to play Randle 40 minutes, Taj 30, and Obi 9 in order to guarantee perhaps the most meaningless win of all time.

On the bright side, a glimmer of hope from IQ? I so wish he had been hitting all season long. Would have felt much different about the first half of this year.

Yea shitty pass but the insistence that our biggest loser needs to take the last shot is even more shitty

Stop worrying about Quick. We know he’s a pretty good shooter. As soon as he settles back into the right role, he’ll start being more consistent. The only real negative from last year is that they know he likes that floater. So they try to take it away. He’s also not going to draw some fouls he used to get. But the 3s will drop. He just has to slowly expand his game.

KJG:
Yea shitty pass but the insistence that our biggest loser needs to take the last shot is even more shitty

Wait. Are you saying Blake Griffin (and everyone else at MSG) knew where that pass was going? 😉

That was a good steak by Reddish leading to a very nice dunk by Mitch. And a good dish by Iq.

One of the problems with a fast pace I have always thought is that it can be tough on foul prone centers I love.

I feel like they adjusted the continuation maybe?

Owen:
Cyber coming off the top rope with a Cronin

LOL

Raven:
Why is Taj the rim runner instead of Obi on these IQ pnrs? Makes, um, no sense…

I sincerely typed that Obi would be so much better off on a worse team playing more minutes, but then I remembered we are basically the worst team. SMH.

If I knew nothing about Cam Reddish and only saw his Knicks tenure I would literally guess he was a highly recruited AAU player who went on to be a complete bust

Reddish can get that sideways fading 19 footer anytime he wants. Blech.

Did anyone have the James Johnson career high in the pool?

this team is a joke…if they lose this…thibs really should be fired tomorrow…he won’t…but he should…

I know I should *”want”* is to lose this game, but hearing cheers for Brooklyn inside MSG really makes my heart hurt 🙁

KB Apprentice: LOL

I sincerely typed that Obi would be so much better off on a worse team playing more minutes, but then I remembered we are basically the worst team. SMH.

Obi would be better off if he played on a less stupid team.

pepper:
this team is a joke…if they lose this…thibs really should be fired tomorrow…he won’t…but he should…

Honestly, an absolutely humiliating loss to the Nets might be the formula for a Dolan intervention. Not that that’d be a good thing, just pointing it out.

“21 point lead at halftime feels like we are the underdog. :-)”

Maybe I should have taken the price. lol

“we have a pg…problem is..it’s julius Randle”

Mudiay would have won some of these games. 🙂

Same play and they still can’t figure out how to defend it. Hate to say, but Mitch is the prime culprit – switches on the pick each time, Grimes recovers, then Mitch doesn’t know where to go, guy open in the corner, bucket

Patty Mills with a Bargs “what is he doing folks” moment but we were too inept to take advantage

Lmao oh my god the absolute perfect ending.

We were just too damn good to make the pick guys!

They were horrible from 3 after that super hot start, not that I didn’t see that coming.

I should have taken the huge price at halftime. Doh

Deeefense!!:
They were horrible from 3 after that super hot start,not that I didn’t see that coming.

I should have taken the huge price at halftime.Doh

Wasn’t it obvious … I didn’t take it either… nets outright could have paid for a new paver patio

Happiest guys tonight are Bill Pidto, Alan Hahn and Wally Szczerbiak. They won’t have to do post game commentary.

You would think it’s when the whistle blows …. But apparently it’s not… which is stupid

The Knicks keep telling us who they are, but we don’t listen, so they tell us louder.

I stopped watching at half time thinking ok, there’s no way these idiots blow this lead right?

What Rose should have done is incinerate this whole team at the deadline, holy fuck.

Cam Thomas has a similar TS% and USG to RJ during RJ’s best season (last year). Glad we have Reddish instead. F***

Cam Thomas wouldn’t have made Thibs’s geezer-ridden “established rotation” and that’s why he or someone like him wasn’t drafted.

ess-dog:
There’s no roster in the nba I wouldn’t swap with rn.

RJ, IQ, Mitch, Obi, Grimes = sunk cost fallacy or hope?

Cam Thomas was my choice for the incinerated pick at the time of the draft. Move over, DRed.

If the teams the Knicks played in the last three games played these rosters the full 82, they’d win 65 games combined, max. The Knicks went 0-3. Two games at MSG. This is easily one of the most hapless three-game runs in team history.

E, all merc’d out:
If the teams the Knicks played in the last three games played these rosters the full 82, they’d win 65 games combined, max.The Knicks went 0-3.Two games at MSG.This is easily one of the most hapless three-game runs in team history.

presided over by tom “what me worry” thibodooh

E, all merc’d out:
.This is easily one of the most hapless three-game runs in team history.

I think the organization has finally done it to me… I think I can find much more compelling tv , shows to catch up on .. I never thought it would happen. But it has. What a shame.

seeing thibs flail and completely not have any answers these last few games should open eyes as to his long term viability here….some really grade A incompetence…you really can’t put any positive spin on his performance..

He briefly shocks the culture then it all quickly goes downhill. That’s his career. This shit was inevitable. Problem is, they gave him a personnel voice.

pepper:
seeing thibs flail and completely not have any answers these last few games should open eyes as to his long term viability here….some really grade A incompetence…you really can’t put any positive spin on his performance..

I wouldn’t blame him for not having the answers but the complete unwillingness to try anything that deviates form the decisions he made in preseason is infuriating. Taj Gibson continues to play significantly more minutes than Obi for absolutely no reason. Kemba and Burks continue to play PG even though the former is totally washed and the latter isn’t a PG at all; while McBride can’t get into a game at all. We barely run offensive plays and our go to move in the clutch are ISO clearouts for Randle.

Cam Thomas was passed over by Rose et. al. at #19, 21 and 25…so he wasn’t getting taken, period.

E, all merc’d out:
He briefly shocks the culture then it all quickly goes downhill.That’s his career.This shit was inevitable.Problem is, they gave him a personnel voice.

This is literally not true. In Chicago his teams won 62, 50, 45, 48 and 50 games. In Minny they won 31 (they won 29 the previous season), 47 and then were 19-21 when he got whacked. This shit is easy to look up. Thibs is definitely not doing a good job with this group but it is not the inevitable result of his coaching.

DudeInKnicksTown:
We would have won a boatload of these games if DRose didn’t get hurt.

beat me to it. just typing: When Thibs is out the door, he’ll rationalize his failure (again) with, “If only Derrick Rose hadn’t gotten hurt.”

Well Thibs was singularly responsible for RJ tweaking his ankle in garbage time. Now sure, he could have rolled it in minute 1 of the next game, but there was no reason for him to be in. Rj probably would have helped in these games.

DRed:
I would like Leon to explain why Deuce isn’t getting a look

That’s the biggest disappointment of the season for me, and that’s saying something…

Thibs explaining in the PostGame that “You have to play tough with a lead.” It just makes so much sense.

KB Apprentice:
Thibs explaining in the PostGame that “You have to play tough with a lead.” It just makes so much sense.

toughness..hmmphh…toughness..hmmphh …the sound of thibs at night mumbling in his sleep…

and a coach who just watches the building go up in flames

that’s kind of what it seems like at times…

Cam Thomas was passed over by Rose et. al. at #19, 21 and 25…so he wasn’t getting taken, period.

Yeah, and that’s the problem. You’re spelling out why we were all mad while still not getting it.

Imagine watching Julius Randle spin into a triple team and turn the ball over, and then shouting down anyone who was upset by saying “he was never going to pass to RJ wide open in the corner. Period.”

A season after finishing fourth in the East, the Knicks, at 25-34, are one of the most disappointing teams in the league — and Thibodeau said postgame changes may be coming.

“Everything’s on the table now,” he said. “It has to be. And it’s got to be merit-based. I’m not going to give minutes just to give minutes. So that’s not happening. You earn what you get.”

lets see if thibsy put his money where his mouth is…

“A byproduct of losing is everyone wants to place blame,” Thibodeau said. “And I understand that; we all have jobs to do. It’s not gone as well as it has — it didn’t go great last year til the end. So lock into what we have to do, don’t get caught up in getting distracted. And focus on how we can do better. That’s where I want the focus to lie.”

…he may want to take a long hard look in the mirror with his focus..

Hubert: Yeah, and that’s the problem. You’re spelling out why we were all mad while still not getting it.

My point is that if forced to take a pick at #19, it clearly would have been Grimes. It’s quite possible that McBride would have been the pick at #21 or #25 (no extra pick in 2021 for trading down there.)

So if you believe that Cam was the better pick than Grimes, just say so. Personally I’m fine with Grimes, but Cam is certainly a comparable pick. Just note that despite that shot to ice the game last night he’s shooting 27% from 3 on the year and has a -2.9 BPA for the year. My guess is that if we took Cam Thomas at #19 and McBride at #21 or #25, folks would be saying “Cam has potential but how’s we pass over this kid Grimes?”

They got the guy they wanted at #19 and had a future pick to boot. So yeah, I still don’t get why people are SO mad, unless they clearly wanted Cam over Grimes, which is fair. Then it’s like wanting SGA over Knox, or Hali over Obi, which I’m still mad about.

Not sure if I’ve ever seen any team blow three big leads in a row like this. And if Klay hits that shot, it would be 6 blown double-digit leads in a row. Not sure how a coach survives that.

I suppose one can rationalize that Thibs has this motley crew playing Thibs basketball for 3 quarters and doesn’t have the horses to bring it home, and that with another coach we’d be losing these games anyway, just without the blown leads. but stretches like these last 6 games (or going 3-13) are what usually gets coaches fired. If it ain’t happening now, it won’t happen until the offseason when our draft position is already fucked up.

There are many actions to castigate Thib’s for, but the failure to see what Deuce can do has to be at the top of the list, along with riding Taj to the glue factory. Nash gave all of his rooks chances and was rewarded last night with Cam Thomas’s performance . Deuce is a rookie, so it is hard to speculate if playing him down the stretch would have mitigated the 4th qtr implosions that led to these vexing losses. Clearly, neither Burks nor IQ have the ability to run the offense in a way that would change the reversion to iso/turnover ball at the end of games. So many questions, no answers. Thibs’s “everything is on the table” comment shows he is flailing as badly as his team.

I guess 18 pts felt safe and i fell asleep instantly. How did we manage to lose this game? :O
I think we’re really tanking, it must be it. Like this: “you can go and during 3 quarters you show them you would win this, but then in the 4th be sure you let them comeback”. It’s this, right? 😛

pepper: And it’s got to be merit-based. I’m not going to give minutes just to give minutes. So that’s not happening. You earn what you get.”

He has zero credibility when he says this and very little ability to discern properly who’s “earning” minutes.

Z-man: They got the guy they wanted at #19 and had a future pick to boot. So yeah, I still don’t get why people are SO mad, unless they clearly wanted Cam over Grimes, which is fair. Then it’s like wanting SGA over Knox, or Hali over Obi, which I’m still mad about.

They could have had Cam T, Deuce, and Grimes. It’s mind-boggling how many times this obvious point needs to be explained.

Agree cyber.
I have come to the conclusion that the FO and Thibs are geniuses, almost at the Hinkiesque level. They have solved the conundrum of tanking while rehabbing the value of your vets. Step 1 was getting your best player/asset off the court–fake an injury and put him in a walking boot. Step 2 is give the vets free rein to blow out teams and get the counting stats up–but only for 3 quarters. Step 3 is to lose the game–and make sure the loss is pinned on the coach (and just in case it isn’t crystal clear have him make a bone-headed mistake by for example, using his last time out on a challenge).

The Perfect Tank. Top 3 pick, here we come.

Most likely what Thibodeau’s unhinged rant about not “giving minutes just to give minutes” means is that he thinks he’s playing the young guys too much. Kemba could fall in that category, too.

It’s telling and bizarre that his teeth-gritted reaction to all this is that he’s been giving people “unearned” minutes — likely, in his mind, at the behest of others — and that has to stop.

Z-Man it’s never been about who they took. It’s always been about the fact that they didn’t use all their picks in the draft. The logic used to defend this has been “well they didn’t like anyone”. Now that we know there were plenty of good players available, the fact that they didn’t like any of them turns that defense into another problem.

Hubert:
Z-Man it’s never been about who they took. It’s always been about the fact that they didn’t use all their picks in the draft. The logic used to defend this has been “well they didn’t like anyone”. Now that we know there were plenty of good players available, the fact that they didn’t like any of them turns that defense into another problem.

Yeah, I resisted the incinerated pick narrative for a very long time. On draft night, the trade was frustrating but something you could kind of shrug off as an odd quirk from a front office that had mostly done good things to that point, and that otherwise seemed to get a lot of value out of that draft. (Even if we should have drafted Hali the year before, Obi has at least turned out to be a real NBA player.) But over time, it’s turned out to be the original sin of this front office. Every move they’ve made since then suggests a level of delusion as to this team’s ability to compete this year, about the veterans’ marketability on the contracts we gave them, etc. I suppose the Cam Reddish trade is an outlier to that approach, but it also looks like a terrible trade, both because our coach clearly doesn’t want to play the guy and because Reddish looks like a worse player in his third season than a bunch of dudes — including yet another Cam — whom we could have just taken at 19 or 21, along with Grimes.

Thibs is likely to be the fall guy for this — Bondy tweeted that Dolan left his seat before the game is over, which is always bad news for someone in the organization — but I am now extremely dubious that the Leon Rose administration understands how to actually fix the mess it has made for itself.

I’m gonna look at the bright side – there are no big name free agents this off season to shun the same old lol Knicks (assuming we even had the cap space)

That’s something right?

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