NY Post: Knicks’ season ends in blowout playoff loss to Hawks

Thanks for the cap, Brian. And although we’re in better position than in years before, the number of questions surrounding our future that you list here shows that it really can go either way easily. We have to trust that Leon knows what he’s doing (so far he earned that, let’s hope he can continue to earn it).

Amen, soze!

Now let’s root like hell for the Suns to close out the Limpers…err Lakers on road tonight. I will make libations out of Laker fans salty tears 🙂

Okay here it goes: I’ve said in the past that next season would be where the team would have to make its big decisions. When it comes to Randall, I would like to say, “hey, love what you did this regular season – now show me you can do it again in ’21-’22”. Right now, I’d:
A. Fully guarantee his full 2021-22 salary. He’s earned it.
B. Propose this third option for a short term extension.

I would not offer a 4-year extension just yet: I want to see the team remain as fluid as possible with players that are not (or not yet) franchise-level talent. I want to buy as much time as possible to improve the talent base and to reposition Randall’s use on offense closer to the basket. I need to go into preseason next October seeing whether Barrett makes the 3rd year leap (which I’ll argue is maybe even more important than navigating Jules’ contract situation), and what improvements IQ and Obi bring to training camp.

Well said, CDiggy. If DRed ever needs a Brock Aller, you’ll do nicely.

I, too, like the idea of rewarding Randle with a two year max extension that allows him to become a free agent in year 10. I don’t know what he’ll like, though. I don’t think he’s going to age well, so he’ll probably want to get paid this year or next year.

Raven:
Z-Man, I’m going to have to disagree with you on the Thibs point. He gets all the credit in the world for getting the Knicks to way overachieve and become a 4th seed with home court, just like Randle gets all the credit in the world for morphing into a borderline All-NBA star during the regular season and driving the team’s success. And both of them get some criticism for shitting the bed during the playoffs.

I agree that Atlanta is a better team, everything would have had to go perfectly for us to beat them. Part of the struggle is that in the second half of the season, it felt like having everything go right was status quo. Somebody always got hot in the 4th, the defensive intensity went up a notch, and we’d pull games out. So it was a bit of cognitive dissonance to suddenly fail as badly as we did.

Thibs is a very good coach. He didn’t coach this series very well. If he had, we’d probably still lose, but maybe 4-2 or even 4-3. Which would have been more fun. C’est la vie. Here’s hoping that both he and Julius recognize the need to improve on a few things.

I dunno Raven, on one hand you say that the Hawks were better and everything would have to go perfectly to beat them, and on the other hand you say that Thibs’ coaching cost us a game. On one hand people say that he waited too long to bench Payton, and on the other hand, the games Payton played were the only ones we had a chance to win.

I would argue that the talent differential between the Bucks and Heat is less than it is between us and the Hawks. The Heat had essentially the same team that went to the finals in the bubble. Maybe if Spo was coaching the Knicks they would have gotten swept, and maybe if Thibs had the Heat roster he figures out how to beat the Bucks a game or two.

djphan:
cp3 reportedly going to decline his option which puts one possibility onto board for us in the offseason….

Mitch would feast.

cybersoze:
All in all, it was a great season, i had a lot of fun. And i’m very happy i started commenting here, because it’s even better to be able to share this with you guys. Thank you all for being a part of KB community, either i agree or disagree with you, you’re all my “knicks brothers”. Let’s hope next year we can go one step further, which is winning at least 3 playoff games.

If there was a KB ROY, you and Max* would be hoisting the trophy. One of the best elements of this site for me, in addition to the intelligence and sophistication, is having people from all over the globe bonding over their love for the Knicks and their willingness to suffer for it.

* I’m using my flawed senior citizen memory to recall that Max started posting this season.

Annnnnnnd here come the trolling text msgs from my coworkers.

It’s not like their defending champs are about to face elimination tonight or anything.

DudesTown: What does he say? ESPN wants money from me to read the article.

Strange, i’m not a paying customer and i can read the whole article. Maybe it’s because i’m not in the US. I’ll try to summarize it.

The Infamous Cdiggy: It’s not like their defending champs are about to face elimination tonight or anything.

They like to live on the edge. Some more hours and it’s payback time. 😉

Ingmarrrr:
I mean, Thibs is a good coach. The team is organized, everyone knows their role and plays hard. But his approach to resources is myopic and childish. You don’t…

1. Stretch your available resources until they are tapped and then push them further. It will get them broken, duh, or depleted.

2. Maximize the top resources you have while freezing out the lesser productive ones, because you won’t have them ready when you’ll need them.

3. Abandon creativity for the sake of repetition and execution. Both are important and using only one approach (D’antoni is the opposite example) will cause rigidity and hurt your ability to adapt.

That’s why I think he’s limited. Give him prime LeBron and Durant and Paul and he’ll be Phil Jackson. Give him less than that and he’s not even Nate McMillan.

I think “childish” is a poor choice of adjective, but beyond that:

Point 1: Agreed, but understand that this team probably doesn’t make the playoffs, much less the 4th seed, without that approach. And keep in mind that Rose got depleted because he took on Payton’s minutes on top of his own, and that Noel was depleted because Mitch was hurt, Taj is old, and Pelle is essentially unplayable in the playoffs if you want to win

Point 2: Obi got playing time all year way beyond what his play merited. IQ got plenty of minutes and if he were played more, point 1 would likely apply.

Point 3: that’s fair but probably more true of other coaches than is being suggested and less true of Thibs than is being suggested.

And your final point makes no sense. He did more with this shitty roster than anyone had a right to expect. Do you actually think that Nate McMillan coaches this team past the play-in?

Hollinger has a new article on the Knicks’ future: https://theathletic.com/2630901/2021/06/03/hollinger-knicks-and-grizzlies-are-eliminated-now-comes-the-hard-part/

1) Thinks Randle has outplayed his extension value
2) Thinks best two options for FA are a) one-year overpay for Lowry b) long-term contract for Ball and resign our veterans as salary filler for a trade
3) Doesn’t think the Knicks will get a chance to sign CP3, nor should they given that it will be 3 years

I read the Hollinger piece, too, which is also about what the Grizzlies should do next. That half has an intriguing section about Jaren Jackson Jr., whom Hollinger helped draft when he was a Memphis exec, and whom Berman of the Post claimed we might try to acquire in the offseason:

Jackson, however, is a huge decision, a franchise fork in the road. The 21-year-old forward just finished his third season, although he only played 11 games due to a knee injury. Jackson tempts with his “big man 3-and-D” package; he hit 39.4 percent from 3 on high volume in 2019-20, and for a 6-11 guy, he has unusually clean footwork running into catch-and-shoots. He can also score on the block against switches, has the feet to guard fours and good shot-blocking instincts.

At the moment, however, he offsets those strengths with a bizarre inability to rebound, a maddening propensity for fouling and an inability to see secondary defenders once he puts it on the floor. He’s also missed significant time due to injury in all three of his pro seasons.

Overall, this one seems it could be headed for a John Collins situation. Jackson no doubt thinks he can get max-type money with a big year and has enough admirers in other front offices that he’s probably right. The Grizzlies, understandably, would probably like to see a longer track record of health and production before committing those kinds of dollars.

Z-man: Agreed, but understand that this team probably doesn’t make the playoffs, much less the 4th seed, without that approach. And keep in mind that Rose got depleted because he took on Payton’s minutes on top of his own,

Love the verb choice here and the intentionally misleading quasi-passive voice. Of course what really happened wasn’t that Rose “took on” Payton’s minutes; what really happened was that Rose “was given Payton’s minutes by the coach.” (*) If you’re at all a Thibs skeptic and at all an attention payer to the claim that he runs guys into the ground, the sight of a broken down Derrick Rose noticeably limping and gimping around in the second and third quarters of an elimination Game 5 is quite the ammunition.

(*) And similarly Rose didn’t “get depleted,” Rose was depleted.

Ingmarrrr: I think this may be the availability bias. Playing people a few minutes less could have made them less tired and more productive. It’s hard to prove either way, but maybe ptmilo has historical data and the resources to check.

By childish I meant stubborn, probably not the right choice of words, I agree.

Nighttime in my time zone, sorry if I don’t respond later, I think this is interesting stuff.

I would be of the opinion that if he took his foot off the gas even for one game in the last 20 game stretch, we would be talking about how we got blown out 4 straight times by the Bucks. We went 16-4 in our las t 20 games and barely eked out a 4th place finish via a tiebreaker. One more loss and we’d be the 6th seed. I fail to see how the playoffs would have turned out differently if we were a well-rested team going up against the Bucks.

Bo Nateman: If there was a KB ROY, you and Max* would be hoisting the trophy. One of the best elements of this site for me, in addition to the intelligence and sophistication, is having people from all over the globe bonding over their love for the Knicks and their willingness to suffer for it.
* I’m using my flawed senior citizen memory to recall that Max started posting this season.

Thanks, Bo. 🙂

I have no quibble with Thibs playing Game 7 all season long. Well a little quibble, but Z-Man’s right that it got us where it got us.

My quibble is with the checkers match he played in the playoffs. Again, don’t get me wrong — he made garbage into art all year long. But here’s the sort of thing we didn’t see these past five games:
https://www.theringer.com/2021/6/3/22481749/clippers-mavericks-nba-playoffs

A few minutes of Frank and we might still be playing meaningful games. Lol. I do believe that Thibs should have tried Frank on Trae for a few minutes because what we were throwing out there simply wasn’t working well.

The guys on your list are all injured. That’s different.

I know the defense of Thibs here is that “it wouldn’t have mattered anyway.” That’s not really a defense. The characterization of IQ as “dumb” doesn’t remotely jibe with reality and sounds bitter. I know he’s gotten on your shit list because to defend him is to criticize Thibs, but he’s not remotely a “dumb” player.

He ran D-Rose into the ground. Expired after 4.5 games from overuse. That’s simply fact. Probably didn’t really “matter” that much, but still simply fact. It was sort of a stunning sight to behold, really — it’s something you don’t often see in pro basketball or any other sport. Less than five games into a first round playoff series and one of your starters is flat wiped.

What was he going to do in Game 6? Does he realize playoff series are the best of 7 games?

I think that there is a world where you can say, “Is it worth it to drag these guys to a higher seed when it won’t help the future of the team to do so?”

But that world is when it is the difference between, like, the #7 seed and the #10 seed or the #9 seed and the #11 seed.

Not the freakin’ fourth seed and home court advantage!

E, all merc’d out: The guys on your list are all injured. That’s different.

Oh, I guess Rose limping means he’s not injured, just tired. Okay. And overusing players doesn’t make them more injury-prone, like when CP3 blew out his hammy in game 5 vs. the Warriors. Right. What injury did Jason Kidd suffer?

E, all merc’d out: I know the defense of Thibs here is that “it wouldn’t have mattered anyway.” That’s not really a defense. The characterization of IQ as “dumb” doesn’t remotely jibe with reality and sounds bitter.

I only meant that in the sense that all rookies are dumb by definition. No slight to his potential. And certainly no bitterness. I wished he played more like a veteran, but the numbers speak for themselves. He was awful this series, Is that really debatable?

E, all merc’d out: He ran D-Rose into the ground. Expired after 4.5 games from overuse. That’s simply fact. Probably didn’t really “matter” that much, but still simply fact. It was sort of a stunning sight to behold, really — it’s something you don’t often see in pro basketball or any other sport.

What was he going to do in Game 6? Does he realize playoff series are the best of 7 games?

If you played Rose less minutes,, your chances getting to game 6 or 7 drop. So you pick your poison. You wish he took a different poison, and a more lethal one. Without Rose’s 38 minutes in game one, including the game-tying shot with 9 seconds left, we get blown out. Without his 39 minutes in game 2 where IQ went 2-9, Burks went 4-13, and RJ went 5-14 and Julius went 5-16, we lose game 2 and surely get swept. Is that so…

Raven, I hear you but and I’m not saying he’s a perfect coach or pressed all the right buttons. My position is that no coach could have done more with this team to get to where it did, and in the playoffs, no coach could have been competitive with the Hawks with the vast disparity in talent. Whatever his flaws are, they had almost nothing to do with the outcome of this series, and if so, it was probably a net positive that we almost won game 1 and won game 2 by playing Rose more minutes than some here would have liked to see. In other words, limiting Rose’s minutes would have meant sure losses in games 1 and 2 instead of a nail-biter and a win. Why is that getting misinterpreted as me saying that Thibs can do no wrong?

Z-man: He was awful this series, Is that really debatable?

It’s extremely debatable, and in fact completely false. He wasn’t remotely “awful.” Not only wasn’t he awful, but the sample is always biased because if he starts out 0-3 or something, Thibs never gives him a chance to recover. His deployment of the kid was brutally bad.

Rose wasn’t on the injury reports as anything but a pure “go,” there was no talk about his knee before the game, and he looked perfectly fine in warmups and in the first part of the game. I don’t think the claim here is that he literally collapsed because of exhaustion, and the more exact “his knee didn’t hold up to the extra workload” isn’t meaningfully different from the more colloquial and conversational, “he was run into the ground.”

His own words were that he had some “knick knack” injuries that eventually made Thibs have to pull him, which is pretty much synonymous with being “run into the ground.” His body didn’t hold up to the extra workload. Predictably so, IMHO.

I’m down with CP3 for 3 years. The third year will be garbage most likely, but it would be nice to have an incredible point guard for once.

So..in my mind, I’ve broken down this coming offseason for our Knicks into 3 options:
1. Package our picks with a player like Knox to move up and get a top tier talent in the draft.
2. Package Randle in a trade for a disgruntled star.
3. Resign our free agents, add Ball, and draft a SG who can score off the bounce and a shooter with our 1st rounders.

Out of the 3, I’d rather do option 3. Listen..I trust Randle. Yea he clammed up in the playoffs. But, he also did a helluva job building off the pain from the previous season, so we should keep him. I trust RJ to build off of the pain as well. They both proved they are the types of players that “get it out of the mud”- so to speak. They will be better next season. I kinda got my eye on Wagner in this draft. We may have to trade up for him, but I think he shoots well enough and can defend fairly well. He also had some playmaking in him. But..is he good enough to supplant Bullock in the starting lineup as a rookie at some point in the season?

I like the bench unit of Noel/Obi/Burks/Quickley/ Rose ALOT. That being said, I’m also thinking we should extend Mitch now before his price goes through the roof. We obviously need him. Noel played valiantly all season, but he will never be the physical presence that Mitch is.

I am not down with trading a bunch of assets for a disgruntled star. So, if we go that route, Randle has to be included so that we won’t Melo deal ourselves. And that star has to be head and shoulders above Randle. It’s hard to say who that might be, unless Dame or Beal are made available. This team has shown so much growth under Thibs, I don’t really want to add a star who might not be cut from the same cloth as Thibs, RJ, and Randle- I don’t care how good they are at scoring. I’d rather have rookies who are malleable and cut from the same cloth. At least this year. I dunno..I can’t wait to see what the FO does

I think next year we have to really ask if it’s worth it to sell out in the regular season. People keep saying we wouldn’t be the 4 seed if we didn’t squeeze every drop of juice out of the team in the regular season. Well… so what? We got our asses kicked by the 5 seed. How is that better than losing to the 6 seed?

This year was fun and I have zero complaints but next year let’s just be who we are without playing pedal to the metal. Let’s not have the top players in minutes played again. Play some kids more. Experiment with different lineups. Build something sustainable. Because winning with your top guys playing 200 more minutes than any other player in the league is not sustainable.

no for cp3…maybe for lowry or conley on a one year deal…

i like jaren jackson a lot, but, he’s hurt a lot and doesn’t seem to really understand basketball all that well…

personally, i think the series was decided on a lucky bounce for the hawks in game 1, if they had lost that first game, i think we roll them in five…

But getting the fourth seed any year typically gives you better odds of winning your playoff series than finishing lower, no?

Brian Cronin:
But getting the fourth seed any year typically gives you better odds of winning your playoff series than finishing lower, no?

Only if you’re a “true” 4 seed. This team wasn’t. I mean, obviously an “untrue” 4 has a better chance of winning than an “untrue” 6 or 7, but I’m not sure that’s the ultimate question here.

Going forward, I think we should be whoever we are without playing our best players significantly more than other teams do. If that’s not the 4th seed, so be it.

CP3 is going to opt out, his people are going to leak how impressed he was with the job his old agent Leon Rose did with the Knicks, espn will do a story about how much he loves the garden and then he’ll sign a big deal with Phoenix.

One
I’m not buying that the reason we sucked in this series was that we were playing every game like it was a game 7 in the reg season.
Atlanta has 2 huge weapons where we had our biggest problems (C and PG) while our biggest weapons (Randle and JR) couldn’t find their groove.

ewwwww, i wanna disagree sooooo badly KYN, but, yeah, good point, we did struggle with good point guards and centers all year…

yeah, shoulda left elf in…for continuity…

#elf’smomrules

Four
Haven’t watched Knicks’ interviews after elimination but I’d love to watch our players/coach addressing the truth and avoiding PR shit.

Yeah but MPJ sucks at 3 on 3.

Well, at least our 2018 lottery pick has better opinions on vaccines

This goes back to the debate about hiring Thibs in the first place. And that’s a fair debate but once he was hired the hope should be that he has as much success at doing things the Thibs way as possible. The other hope was that Leon would establish guard rails around personnel decisions, to have assistants that rein in his worst tendencies, and to live with the results. There is zero chance that he will change his approach.

Maybe drafting MPJr would have been a good move….

you know owen, i think one thing that gets left behind here at times when discussing basketball, and life to some degree, is if a person should have a differing ‘view” of the situation, to make sure to keep the discussion on topic and not make things personal; however, i will say that you are a total nutcase, completely deranged, delusional, paranoid…your thought process is all fucked up…your information train is jammed, man!

whew, i feel better for that…i hope that worked for you too 🙂

let’s arrange for some similarly invigorating discourse in a week or two…

Shoot, I have to go to a screening. All I can say is, I hope this series goes 7…

now, i myself might lean a slight bit towards the side of sliding in a slight humble brag from time to time…

but, c’mon man…

okay then, i raise you your whatever screening by the fact that i recently finished a complete set of both marvel and star wars disney infinity characters…yeah, take that for facts…

The thing I really don’t understand about the series with Atlanta is why we did better with Payton than without him. And we definitely did.

Watching Melo still can’t believe his Game 2 performance vs Boston in 2011 and how the Knicks blew that game. Jared Jeffries…

Maybe we should’ve kept Austin Rivers.

Booker is damn good

ptmilo:
The thing I really don’t understand about the series with Atlanta is why we did better with Payton than without him. And we definitely did.

he played 13 minutes during which we shot 7-25 and were outscored 27-18.

That’s true, but then our bench had Rose and was more competitive than the bench without him in the last two games of the series, which made up for the starters doing badly. D see o the team overall did better when Payton was used than when he wasn’t.

booker is doing a klay Thompson on the lakers…so fun to watch them get embarrassed on their home floor

The Suns drubbing of the Lakers reminds me of George Foreman laying waste to Joe Frazier. Five knockdowns in two rounds before a TKO.

Also in games we saw Burks or IQ run point, we did see struggles with the offense. Payton may have sucked, but he was a PG and the offense looked smoother with him on the floor despite Burks and IQ being better players.

One of Burks or IQ needed to step up once Rose moved to the starting unit, but neither did. End of day, you’re not supposed to count on your bench though. We need to rely on our starters and stars, just like every other team, and Randle and RJ didn’t come through. First playoffs for both, so hopefully a good learning experience for next time.

Burks is interesting because he had the best 3P% of his career but was so bad at mid rangers that it brought his whole TS%. He’s one of the worst two point shooters in the league, though I don’t remember that disparity being so evident from watching him.

Igno-Bot 3000:
Burks is interesting because he had the best 3P% of his career but was so bad at mid rangers that it brought his whole TS%. He’s one of the worst two point shooters in the league, though I don’t remember that disparity being so evident from watching him.

This has pretty much always been Burks’s problem. He loves midrange jumpers and, like most players, he isn’t great at hitting them. His 2p% isn’t that far out of line with his historical numbers. In fact, he was better than his career averages from midrange. Like many Knicks, he struggled getting to the basket this year. I suspect playing a true C all 48 min is part of the issue.

13 pt game now. Lakers have tightened their D and are making shots. LeBron is waking up.

A lot of times, the whole “heart of a champion” thing can be conjecture. But I do believe you need a killer’s instinct particularly to put away a defending champ even when they’re struggling.

Don’t continue to let LA gain confidence. Step back on their necks and then put a bullet through their brain!!!

I see posters suggesting we trade up in the draft. I assume they want something like a top six pick or better. But the top six picks are owned by Houston, Detroit, Orlando, OKC, Cleveland and Golden State, in order. I don’t see any of those teams trading down. Houston, Detroit, Orlando and Cleveland are all rebuilding and will want the best pick possible. OKC is also rebuilding and has so many picks already, they aren’t going to trade one good one for two or more lesser ones. Golden State is capped out and their pick is probably the best chance for them to add talent.

I can see us making a small deal to move up a couple of picks if there is one player we really want who will be available, but that’s the most I can see happening.

Always enjoy watching the Lakers lose. Amazingly, this is the first time LeBron has lost in the first round.

With LAL and Miami losing both Finals teams from last year are eliminated. Anyone with any guesses on the last time the previous year’s Finals teams didn’t make it out of the first?

lakers and celtics going out in rd 1 is some salve in the knicks ousted in 5 wound….

BigBlueAL:
Maybe we should’ve kept Austin Rivers.

Yes, we shouldìve…
Especially when the alternative were a full year and two playoffs games of The Plague…

Bo Nateman: If there was a KB ROY, you and Max* would be hoisting the trophy. One of the best elements of this site for me, in addition to the intelligence and sophistication, is having people from all over the globebonding over their love for the Knicks and their willingness to suffer for it.

* I’m using my flawed senior citizen memory to recall that Max started posting this season.

It’s Europower!

Mike Vorkunov posed some familiar questions in the Athletic today:

It is anathema to say a bad word about Thibodeau right now. Makes sense, as he might win Coach of the Year for the work he has done this season. He deserves all those flowers for that — but this series did raise some red flags. Was Randle’s inability to break out of Hawks jail an individual problem or the coach not being able to spring him into better looks? Why didn’t the Knicks try to go small at times and give Atlanta different looks? Were the Knicks unable to attack Young more potently when they were on offense because Thibodeau was unwilling to orchestrate the right switches or put out a lineup where all five players could hurt Young or because he had no one better to turn to than Bullock? Was Young able to keep burning the Knicks because Thibodeau couldn’t figure out the right pick-and-roll coverages and defense to stop him, or because he just didn’t have the kind of personnel to slow him down? These are all complicated, but when a team goes down in five games, it’s fair to take a constructive look at everyone.

I’m so sorry not to have been around for the final stretch, I really hope next season will be better 🙂

But anyway I’m fine and healthy, and also got my first vax shot this Monday, so life is good! Apart from these Knicks who, anyway, were amazing all season. It just felt like an awesome summer fling where you’re prepared to its end, still want it to last as long as it can, but can’t despair too much when it actually ends because you’re just so grateful that you experienced it.

At least, that’s how I went through it. That, and skipping five minutes at a time during playoff matches because it was really fugly from time to time

“My summer fling with Thibs” would be a hot Penthouse letter.

Still pondering how the Nuggets streamrolled the Blazers last night in the fourth quarter. Dame’s comments pretty telling. “They beat us without two of their best four players” I may have heard him wrong but I think he wants to be traded to New York for Kevin Knox.

Monte Morris did some work. It’s always interesting how random bench pieces turn out to be actually pretty good.

That’s true, but then our bench had Rose and was more competitive than the bench without him in the last two games of the series, which made up for the starters doing badly. D see o the team overall did better when Payton was used than when he wasn’t.

I said this over and over and still think it’s true.

Thibs was just as aware that Payton in the starting lineup was a huge problem as anyone else. He could see the boxscore stats, Payton’s on and off numbers, the bad 1st quarter starts. the details of his execution via game film etc.. He knew the starting lineup would be better with Rose. But there were flip sides.

You had to wonder whether taking Payton out of the lineup altogether and not using any PG other than Rose was worse than suffering through Payton for a few minutes in each half. We only had 2 PGs.

You had to winder whether Rose would be as effective at the end of games when we needed him if he started playing more minutes regularly.

You had to wonder whether taking Rose off the bench would hurt that unit more than he would help the starters.

Sometimes you don’t know the answer to questions like these until you try, but if you make changes every time someone has a bad game or goes into a slump you are going to lose the team and make a mess. You have to make a decision on what your best lineups and rotations are OVERALL and stick with them. You can tweak things here or there due to matchups or someone having an especially energetic or lackadaisical night, but you can’t start blowing things up on a whim like fans want. There comes a point when the evidence accumulates and you have to make a change. But as we saw, when Payton came out some of the reasons to be concerned were legitimate. Rose wore down, the second unit wasn’t as effective, not having another real PG was an issue etc.. Thibs did the best he could with a bad situation.

Alan:
My guess is that Portland appeases Dame this offseason by firing Stotts and trying to remake the supporting cast a bit. But if he wants out already, and the Clips get bounced by Dallas and Kawhi decides he doesn’t need to live in LA year-round… buckle up for one crazy NBA summer.

Where are you going with this, Alan? Dame AND Kawhi on the Knicks next year? 😀

Alan: But if he wants out already, and the Clips get bounced by Dallas and Kawhi decides he doesn’t need to live in LA year-round… buckle up for one crazy NBA summer.

I fear pairing Kawhi and Dame on the Knicks would require Hubert to be in a coma the entire offseason, and I just can’t wish that on anyone. But perhaps it’ll count if we just have geo smoke Hubert out everyday

Where are you going with this, Alan? Dame AND Kawhi on the Knicks next year? 😀

Guys, we should think bigger than this!

I fear pairing Kawhi and Dame on the Knicks would require Hubert to be in a coma the entire offseason, and I just can’t wish that on anyone.

I’ll sleep for all 82 games but I want to be awake for the playoffs. I’ve always wanted to hibernate anyway. Bears have it good.

Correction: Stotts is worth questioning because the talent differential is not as much of an issue in DEN vs. POR.

Were the Knicks unable to attack Young more potently when they were on offense because Thibodeau was unwilling to orchestrate the right switches or put out a lineup where all five players could hurt Young or because he had no one better to turn to than Bullock?

He could have turned to Alec Burks. The answer to that one is definitely unwilling.

Hubert: He could have turned to Alec Burks.

Bullock is a better defender than Burks.

Z-man: Bullock is a better defender than Burks.

If we are only going to keep one, I think we should keep Burks. There is a role for 3&D players in the NBA, but typically they are best used on teams with a surplus of scoring options. That way their low usage is not impacting the overall offense much, but you get the full benefit of their defense. The Knicks need more versatile scoring. I’d keep Burks even though I like both.

Deeefense: Thibs was just as aware that Payton in the starting lineup was a huge problem as anyone else. He could see the boxscore stats, Payton’s on and off numbers, the bad 1st quarter starts. the details of his execution via game film etc.. He knew the starting lineup would be better with Rose. But there were flip sides.

We have no way of knowing this and to a degree it comes down to semantics and definitions. Was Thibs baseline “cognizant” of the stats and the on-off numbers? Most likely, yeah. Was he in any serious sense “aware” of them in the sense that he showed any kind of “awareness” of them as any kind of material factor in anything he did? Didn’t really seem like it, did it?

E, all merc’d out: It’s hard to see what you could possibly have seen in the games if you think Reggie Bullock was an effective or even semi-effective defender against Trae Young. He got completely and totally lit up.

Maybe it’s just that Trae is better than any of our guards by an absurdly wide margin. But you go on thinking that IQ would have slowed Young down more than Reggie. It’s cute, kind of like a toddler’s babblings.

Bullock’s defense was superb in the second half of game 2. There’s no way we win that game without his effort.

But Trae adjusted marvelously and lit him up in games 3, 4, and 5. Whatever marginal edge Bullock has over Burks as a defender was not as critical as our need to help Randle and take advantage of Trae on defense.

It’s really hard to say he had no choices when Alec Burks was available.

Think we would have lost no matter what Thibs with Randle in his funk, but was surprised they didn’t try different approaches on the PnR — given Trae’s size, could have doubled him off the PnR with high hands and forced him to give the ball up and have less time on the shot clock vs watching is PnR floater over and over again

Reggie did have a good last 2/3 of the second half of Game 2 defensively, for sure. That said, there was a strategic change then that included higher ball pressure with extra defenders either directly on or shading. For whatever reason, Thibs went away from that strategy the rest of the series, even though it worked swimmingly. Another pretty major head scratcher.

Hubert:
Bullock’s defense was superb in the second half of game 2. There’s no way we win that game without his effort.

But Trae adjusted marvelously and lit him up in games 3, 4, and 5. Whatever marginal edge Bullock has over Burks as a defender was not as critical as our need to help Randle and take advantage of Trae on defense.

It’s really hard to say he had no choices when Alec Burks was available.

You’re wrong, the difference isn’t marginal. Bullock’s name was being bantered about for an all-defensive team. He’s a very good defender and his defense played a significant role in many of our wins this season. And Burk’s offense fell off a cliff after game 1. But hey, you wanted to bench Bullock for game 5. Agenda much?

Just because there were choices doesn’t mean that there were better choices. Maybe Thibs could have tried Pelle on Trae. That’s a choice, isn’t it?

E, all merc’d out: We already know you hate the kid, Z. You don’t have to repeat it yet again. We get it. Though you’re delusional if you think he “couldn’t even guard Lou Williams.” But you’re right — he’s no Elfrid Payton.

lol sure, I hate the kid. Right.

You are such a clueless asshole that when your vapid agenda-driven arguments fall apart, you resort to bullshit like this. But keep right on kepping on, you makes strat’s unflinching support of Phil look like utter genius.

You mean to tell me that IQ, a rookie, couldn’t guard Lou Williams, a perrenial 6th man of the year winner and one of the best bench scoring guards of the last decade?

For the people on this board who do converse in good faith, it’s worth pointing out that people like Vorkunov, myself, TNFH, et al are not making the argument that the Knicks could have won the series.

The questions are:

– have red flags been raised about the coach after a marvelous season (I think the answer is a resounding yes).

– what can we do to mitigate them? (this strikes me as a better conversation than whatever is going on with Z-Man and E above, but whatever. If trolls want to troll, I’ll just eat some mushrooms and call it a day.)

I think you’re both wrong right now.

Um, Trae young is REALLY FUCKING GOOD but he actually didn’t light up Bullock in game 5. He had a bad shooting night that night. And trae is a PG, Reggie plays SF for us. It was either him, RJ, Elf or Rose who was going to guard him (and Rose did guard him a bunch too once he started).

I don’t think you can really pin Trae Young’s offensive performance in this series on Bullock alone. Trae Young is usually going to get his. That’s like getting mad at someone for not being able to stop Steph or Harden.

This is why I actually think it was not the right move to bench Elf. Elf also would have been a defensive option against Trae and would have kept Rose fresh for the bench (where he has chemistry with IQ and the other bench players.

Hubert:
For the people on this board who do converse in good faith, it’s worth pointing out that people like Vorkunov, myself, TNFH, et al are not making the argument that the Knicks could have won the series.

The questions are:

– have red flags been raised about the coach after a marvelous season (I think the answer is a resounding yes).

– what can we do to mitigate them? (this strikes me as a better conversation than whatever is going on with Z-Man and E above, but whatever. If trolls want to troll, I’ll start my nap now.)

Almost the entire media commentariat has raised questions about Thibs’s performance in the series and obviously so. There are some holdouts here with whom at least from my perspective, I’m having good faith fun tweaking a bit. (If I’d had the chance to see Z in person, I’d have probably asked him about his back PT, becaue I’m in the middle of same now.) I’d like to see them give at least a little nod in the direction of the commentariat, but internet gonna internet.

There’s no way to win a series with RJ & Randle shooting the way they did, coaching can’t change missing shots you hit all season.

The Hawks played excellent defense and forced Randle to take tough shots, but those are shots Randle hit all season. I remember freaking out every time he took them early on, but they kept going in and at some point I got used to it and even expected Randle to hit those crazy fadeaways. He just wasn’t able to do it in the playoffs. It wasn’t just the difficult shots, Randle missed the open shots too.

Maybe it was the crowd, maybe it was the playoff pressure, maybe it was the week off, but Randle just couldn’t hit shots.

I don’t think you should go away from what worked all season because of a player’s cold shooting. You have a better chance of Randle getting in rhythm doing the same thing he has 1000 reps doing than learning something new on the fly. Fwiw, I do think Thibs tried a few wrinkles but those plays got blown up because Randle didn’t have it and RJ, Bullock, and everyone except Rose couldn’t buy a shot.

The Knicks had the 3rd highest 3p% during the regular season (.392%) they would’ve been 27th based on their playoff shooting (.342). No coaching can fix missed shots.

There are red flags with thibs but I think far lesser coaches have won titles before, so I don’t think those red flags are going to hinder us from one day winning a championship. To me there are far more important problems for us to address than coaching right now (mainly who we want to draft/sign/trade for long term).

This is why I get a little annoyed with nitpicking what a coach does. There are so many coaches in the NBA who have won titles and haven’t done anything special as far as coaching to get those titles. But its always the first thing fans want to go after when a team fails. But right now is not the time to worry about Thibs. If we seriously upgrade our roster in the next few years and reach a hump in the playoffs that we just can’t seem to get over, then we can talk about a coaching change, especially if the team stops responding to him. But why worry about that now when there are way bigger problems to address.

Again, I am completely aware of Thins’ quirks. He is absolutely stubborn and is not an offensive mastermind by any stretch. I think that one can nitpick his coaching decisions in good faith.

But I don’t think “good faith” includes:
-arguing that any of the decisions that he “didn’t” make would have improved our chances of winning even a single game more against ATL. There is zero hard evidence to suggest that anything but placating critics would have resulted from any changes. On the other hand, there is actually hard evidence that the changes he did make worked, e.g playing Rose 38 and 39 minutes in games 1 and 2, and benching Bullock in the 4th quarter of Game 1 but going back to him in Game 2 resulted in a coin-flip loss and a win. And benching Payton (which every Thibs critic screamed for) coincided with 3 straight ass-kickings. Imagine if he stuck with Payton and we lost 3 nailbiters…the same Thibs critics would be blaming that decision for the losses…every possession matters, etc. Now instead they are blaming Thibs for burning out Rose. That’s good faith?
-arguing that the talent differential was not significant, as Hubert and E did over and over again. Not a single serious pundit/analyst, including Vorkunov, doesn’t acknowledge that there was a major disparity in talent.
-not holding the players accountable for their poor performances. It’s not Thibs’ fault that players like Randle, RJ, Bullock, Burks, etc. missed shots that they made all year. It’s bad faith to blame him for that.

Loathe though I am to so much as acknowledge the existence of Stephen A, he claimed this morning on First Take that six or seven teams have already called Portland about Dame, and we are one of them.

But why worry about that now when there are way bigger problems to address.

Because it informs how we go about constructing the roster. I go back to Max F-C’s point: do we have to take away some of Thibs toys to force him to utilize his whole roster? Maybe we give him Derrick Rose and Taj Gibson and force him to use IQ, Obi, and our 3 draft picks. Maybe we have to let Noel go to get him to try playing Obi Toppin or Julius Randle at center.

Now that we know how low the ceiling is for this team, why do the same thing next year?

So do I have it right that we can sign a free agent before free agency begins, or did we already do that with Vildoza?

Max: Not to contradict but only to be fair to some pundit/analyst,
both Zach Lowe and Hollinger were in the “The Hawks are more talented, the Knicks looks tougher” camp.
They were wrong on the “most tougher” part.

Yeah, that’s how I felt going into the series. The rules of engagement in today’s NBA makes the toughness thing much less of a factor than it did back in the day. And even so, when the talent differential turns out to be so pronounced, the tough-guy antics only inspire the other team to pile on. Capela is not intimidated by anyone on the Knicks…he’s bigger and tougher than any of the Knicks players. All of ATL’s wings and bigs bullied the Knicks in the post, especially when we switched. Capela’s words were spot on and were backed up 100% on the Knicks home court in front of me and 15,000 maniacal fans. THAT”S toughness.

I also promise that you won’t suddenly see a brand new poster join the forum making the same points I was making 🙂

DudesTown:
So do I have it right that we can sign a free agent before free agency begins, or did we already do that with Vildoza?

I believe we can sign free agents (I’m not going to look it up because the CBA is dense), but players currently under contract remain under contract until the FA Moratorium period begins. So we can sign random scrubs, but not Lillard or any other player who was worth making the roster. Basically better players will be available once FA begins.

We only signed VIldoza when we did because he got an extra year’s salary. At this point, I don’t believe any players would still get a salary for this year.

Alan: Guys, we should think bigger than this!

What’s bigger than Kawhi and Dame on the Knicks? Do you need Wilt and Walt?

Alan:
Loathe though I am to so much as acknowledge the existence of Stephen A, he claimed this morning on First Take that six or seven teams have already called Portland about Dame, and we are one of them.

Yeah and a bunch of guys also called Victoria’s Secret about possibly hooking up with one of their supermodels

Alan: Guys, we should think bigger than this!

What’s bigger than Kawhi and Dame on the Knicks? Do you need Wilt and Walt?

swiftandabundant: I think The Hawks did a good job defending Randle but I also think Randle totally got into his head. I could count 3 or 4 times a game in every game where he got the ball at the top of the key and was open and looked to take a 3 but then hesitated, giving the defender time to come up on him. Then he either took a contested three or he did a pump fake and drove into multiple defenders.

During the game I referred to this as 2019/20 Randle. I agree totally. A switch flipped off. He wasn’t an assassin like he was in the regular season. Where there’s worry is how this beat-down will land on him. Looking at a similar situation, Sam Darnold was toast once he “saw ghosts” against the Patriots. There’s two way he can go. He can hone his game to offset that defense or he can fizzle. I think he has the mental toughness to overcome it but that’s a gamble.

slovene knick:
I’m geting the Jonshon up mine on Sunday… woohoo.
One for two. One and done. The shot. That Johnson fella is one pure efficiency savant.

That’s awesome news, man. If you’re not older than me, it means Slovenija is ahead of Portugal in the vaccination program. Either way, happy for you!
PS: If you’re near the Under-21 European Soccer Championship, you go cheer for Portugal in my place, ok? It’d be much appreciated. 🙂

@ Infamous CDiggey:
NY Magazine TV critic Jen Cheney ( a Thibs to Alan’s Pop) named Last Chance U: Basketball one of the Best TV shows of 2021 ( So Far)

This Netflix docuseries, which previously focused on junior college football, delivers equally intense drama and high emotional stakes by turning its lens on the world of junior college basketball. Following the young men of the East Los Angeles College basketball team and their spiritual, committed coach John Mosley, Last Chance U takes us inside the locker rooms and lives of guys who just missed their shots as Division I players and must claw their way through all kinds of challenges — including grief over lost loved ones and management of their anger — in the hopes of winning a championship and a path back to a major university. What would have been an absorbing season of television under any circumstance is elevated by the specific, unforeseen circumstances that the 2019–2020 season brings. The eighth and last episode of the season will break your heart in ways that few sports documentaries have before. — JC
(Available to stream on Netflix.)

Seth Partnow had a piece in The Athletic this morning – The Knicks in Game 1 of the series had the worst shot quality of any team in any game this season.

I have to say, Anchorage Man has become one of my favorite basketball follows on Twitter. That guy is good. And apropos of nothing but Jason Concepcion is definitely one of the major things, beyond KB, making being a Knicks fan bearable.

Hubert: Look, it’s obvious I can’t raise the points I want to raise without Z-Man hijacking the thread. And it’s also obvious that this must be some Bob Neptune level reading for the rest of y’all, and I’m sorry. So out of respect for everyone I’m going to ban myself from discussing the coach until the season starts up.

Hubert, I don’t see how responding to your posts about Thibs, especially when they are highly opinionated and the opinions are dubious, is hijacking the thread. When you say stuff like “Thibs should bench Bullock for game 5” or “The Knicks are just as talented as the Hawks” or that “It’s Thibs’ fault that Randle is playing like shit” is that not begging for a response?

There are good faith ways to question Thibs’ decision-making, and even the Thibs hire. That’s not what you or E have engaged in.

thanks for the link max…wow, really moving article…dang, think I may have caught a little dust in my eye…

Really moving indeed. He’s a great dude, i’d very much like to keep him around.
And btw i’m european and can’t understand why in the US people carry guns if they so wish, here in Portugal i probably never crossed paths with a person carrying a gun (except police and security services). What’s the point?

thenoblefacehumper: if you’re not an Athletic subscriber, I guarantee you you’re spending at least $5 a month more stupidly than they’d be spent on a subscription

If someone wants to try The Athletic to check if it’s worth it, i have 5 guest passes to offer ( Share a 30-day guest pass with up to 5 friends ).

I guess Thibs went with the “dance with the one who brought you” approach, with the exception of rightly dumping Payton.

It makes me sad to see all the references to The Athletic. I subbed there but got stuck in some sort of perma trial sub land where it would keep logging me out, even as it sent me emails with links to click that dead ended when I did so. Kept prompting me to sub when I already was. And even logging back in each time required in going through a few browser hoops.

The beauty of the “shot quality” data is that it conforms perfectly to what some of us were reporting in real time via the eye test. It was blatantly obvious from the get-go that the Hawks were creating significantly easier shots, and it isn’t really that surprising that the Knicks’ shot quality compared poorly against the rest of the playoff teams. It was a complete slog.

How the difference in shot quality came to be is the critical debate, but it was very, very real.

As to the “Thibs wins effect” TNFH and the Athletic hit that pretty well, too. Some of us are curious — is the relationship between playoff performance and regular season performance a negative fit with regular season wins? IOW, as the talent gets better and the regular season wins approach, say, 65, does the playoff gap shrink to 0? Or is there always a gap even at high levels of talent and wins? Do Thibs’s teams overachieve in the regular season at *all* levels of talent and wins, or only, say in the 35-47-ish win range, as with the 2020-21 Knicks?

cybersoze:
Really moving indeed. He’s a great dude, i’d very much like to keep him around.
And btw i’m european and can’t understand why in the US people carry guns if they so wish, here in Portugal i probably never crossed paths with a person carrying a gun (except police and security services). What’s the point?

Being someone that lives in a rural area I know a lot of people with concealed carry permits and I can honestly say most of them never carry it in public because they figure that if they ever used it they’d be screwed anyway. They just leave it at home in case of a night time break in to protect their family. I don’t have a pistol myself. I just have a rifle I hunt with.

Z, the shot quality data is independent of pace. I hope you would concede that there’s a possibility the shot quality was so piss poor because at least in part, the offensive coaching was poor/bad/suboptimal. If that’s the case, it falls on Thibs.

I haven’t read the Partnow piece in full, but I’d want to see the delta with regular season shot quality as well. But the fact of the matter is the Knicks obviously and consistently generated poor to very poor quality looks throughout the series.

I know this isn’t real, but if it was, i have bad news for you, because if you want to trade for Dame using cap space, having Julius on the books won’t allow you to offer the 35% max to Kawhi in free-agency (maybe you forgot we’re still paying a C that got lit in NY).

Just for fun, I was doing this math earlier and you’re exactly right: Joakim Noah’s salary is what prevents us from being able to trade everything for Dame while maintaining space for Kahwi’s max.

E, I agree that the shot quality was poor, but that the biggest reason for it is that we have lousy offensive players who got away with being lousy all year. I don’t think any coach could have transformed our offense enough to match the Hawks, largely due to personnel limitations.

Seriously, what would Mike D’Antoni have done? My guess is that he would have used Kevin Knox and IQ more and lost games 145-130 instead of 110-95. We would have generated better looks by running out and shooting quick 3’s and that would have played right into ATL’s hands, just in a different way. If Thibs couldn’t figure out how to defend Trae, can you imagine what D’Antoni would have done with this roster? (Actually, never mind, he wouldn’t have won 41 games with them.)

The thing is, I’m with you and others about concerns with the offense going forward. But in the “package deal” sense, I’m hoping (not expecting, hoping) that his defensive strenghs balance out his offensive weaknesses, and that Leon isn’t fooled into thinking that the roster is better than it is just because we overachieved during the regular season.

True contending teams are not reliant on one way of playing…they can go big, small, fast, slow, offense-centric, defense-centric…they have several players that can generate their own shot as well as shots for others, and can mix and match around them as the situation dictates. And unless they have a coach on the floor such as LeBron, Magic, Bird where coaching doesn’t matter all that much, then the best coaches adapt to the conditions of the game. I don’t know whether Thibs is capable of adapting in that way because he has not really had the roster of a true contending team since Rose went down with the ACL injury. So eventually he was going to run into a team that could find a way to beat his roster, regardless of who was coaching. Those worries that he can’t are legitimate, and I’m not being dismissive of them.

I’d hazard to guess (not knowing where to find shot quality data) that we were near the bottom in shot quality during the regular season.

I flagged this issue earlier in the year and worried it would come back to bite us. Rose and Randle both feasted from the midrange, hitting low quality shots constantly. As mentioned upthread, Burks is another player who loves his midrange jumper. IQ? Loves his midrange floater which has to be a terrible quality shot.

Those 4 took exactly 1800 2pt FGA out of the team’s 6225 FGA (3s & 2s). So 29% of our shots were from players who love terrible midrange jumpers. Some of those are good attempts, layups and whatnot, but eyeballing distance splits that means we took a crapton of midrange jumpers.

In Chicago, even with a healthy Rose, who was their #2 offensive option? Luol Deng and Boozer don’t exactly strike fear into defenders. They’re good players, but not exactly #1 options. Even Rose was wildly overrated when healthy given his pedestrian TS%.

I don’t think he ever really had a true contender, but he gets his teams to consistently overperform. The Knicks need some of that just to stop being a league wide joke.

someone mentioned it earlier about how we have so many posters from around the world…thinking of max linking reggie’s poignant piece in the Player’s Tribute…

just wondering for those living not here in the states, just what the impression others might have of the proliferation of gun violence here…

one of my favorite follows the last year or so has been jordan klepper, he did some hilarious work with the maga folks…he also did a very revealing story on gun “control”…

i’d be very surprised if dame goes anywhere, but, just listened to some of his post game comments – yikes…very direct regarding his team and their roster…

goodbye stotts, goodbye cj…

Sorry for posting up a storm today. I’m bored and had too much caffeine.

I don’t think Thibs is immune from criticism, but he can’t hit jumpshots for the players. It seems like a double standard to credit the players for career offensive years from Burks, Bullock, Randle, and the tremendously improved RJ during the season and say it wasn’t the players, but the coach in the playoffs. If Thibs deserves blame for the playoff offensive woes, then he deserves praise for the offense during the win streak which was spectacular.

Hubert, hate to lose you as a poster for any amount of time.

Yeah, I guess I just take issue with the idea that “overperforming” is somehow bad.

I mean, if its overperforming for a non-playoff team and it costs you a higher pick, I get why people think that is bad. But if a team can make the playoffs, why would you want to underperform and get a lower seed? Just so you’re rested? I mean, that’s great and all but then you face a tougher opponent in the 1st round and have a higher chance of going out early.

The Lakers and Clippers this season are good examples of what happens when a team underperforms in the regular season. I know The Lakers didn’t do it on purpose but the Clippers with Kawhi’s load management probably left a handful of games on the table and that means facing Dallas in the first round instead of Portland or The Lakers.

And I don’t think we lost to Atlanta because we were tired. We had a week off from games BECAUSE we avoided the play-in. Everyone (besides Mitch) was 100 percent going into game one. In fact, with the play-in, overperforming to get to the 4,5,6 spot is super important now.

You know what’s funny, Jowles, that actually was my more measured response! You should have seen the first one 😉

Look, this place is too good to have people argue in bad faith. Here is my uncontroversial quote about Reggie Bullock:

Hubert
May 31, 2021 at 10:11 am

By all means, start Reggie in game 5 again. But I think you’ve got to have a quick hook with him and move to IQ or Burks if, after 6 minutes, Reggie isn’t making the Hawks pay.

And yet every day since then I’ve logged into KB to read “Hubert is an idiot who said Reggie Bullock should be benched.” That is the definition of trolling, from an experienced and dedicated troll, and it should have no place here.

The problem was not overperforming in the regular.
It was underperforming in the playoffs.
Choking.
But it’s ok since we were mostly Playoff Rookies.

Atlanta has the players to go PNR, Fastbreaks, 3s, Paintgame, ISO, drives, heroball, foulgame…the whole arsenal against us.
Thibs tried to take away some of those but as we all saw they were Too Good to be shut down.

Personally I’d prefer from Thibs more D-oriented approach focused on ballsy 100% professionalism (as showcased by DRose, Taj) but we should have been down probably anyway we had played them.
I just hate the pseudo toughness and the unprofessional frustration…(Capella sadly told the truth and Trae was the real badass in the series wo being a dick)

Play hard, Give your 100% and if your opponent is better applaud him and Learn from him. (Unless he’s a dick!)

#Trae was the real badass in the series AND he was a dick.#

I’m usually oversensitive against dick opponents and curse badly Lebron, CP3 and other annoying to me floppers and whiners but Trae didn’t pull any trigger on me.

As for the other…
I’m with Zman!
He keeps everyone accountable like a feisty vet sergeant without diplomacy and babysitting!
He’s Thibsing! ;-P

Trae Young is one of the biggest floppers in the entire league, so…huh?

I don’t dislike Trae Young either, but he was definitely a dick at times during the series. The bow? I mean, come on.

But yes, the Knicks certainly did not do themselves any favors with the pseudo tough guy stuff. Totally agreed there. They were so upset by Capela’s comments because he nailed them way too perfectly for their tastes.

#Trae Young is one of the biggest floppers in the entire league, so…huh?#

True but he’s tiny so it’s part of his bball surviving skills.Fair

#I don’t dislike Trae Young either, but he was definitely a dick at times during the series. The bow? I mean, come on.#

What can i say man?
If he’s a dick and you don’t dislike him one of the two is probably not true…trust your heart!

Knew Your Nicks: As for the other…
I’m with Zman!
He keeps everyone accountable like a feisty vet sergeant without diplomacy and babysitting!
He’s Thibsing! ;-P

Thanks KYN. If Hubert thinks I’m a troll, lol, so be it. I still have a special place in my heart for him since he made a certain insinuation when I characterized Mike Miller as a gym rat. He does the same stuff to others, and can’t handle it when he gets a taste of his own medicine. I admit that certain things trigger the Bronx in me, especially the aloof know-it-all who makes provocative statements about capabilities and motivations and then bristles at being challenged in kind with the same rhetoric they used towards others.

Or put differently, we know what’s really going on here, right Hubie?

Maybe we underperformed by losing in 5 games instead of 6 or 7, but once Nerlens fucked up his ankle the series was over.

If we keep one of Bullock or Burks who would you want?

I don’t blame Trae. What can be better for his notoriety than to get his name in the hands of NY sports media?

As for Atlanta and the Knicks, I have to admit that I really liked what Atlanta did in the off-season. They had an up-and-coming point guard, a dominant big man and they made the right types of moves in the offseason. Of particular note was their additions of Galanari through a sign-and-trade and Bogdonovic as a free agent. They also signed Solomon Hill, who was a lesser talent. (Note: I cannot post links) I had a post in November about tier-3 players and listed them as my top priorities. I was unhappy with some of our signings in November but Leon Rose was more patient than me and added DRose and Taj mid-season. I hope that he’s more aggressive this off-season. Think about it. Would you rather have added Galanari and Bogdonovic or Peyton and Burks?

@DRed-
I would keep Bullock. I think Burks is a clear step down.

I think Bryn Forbes is UFA….is he same as Burks/Bullock or a step up?

Watching the injured reigning champs with one of the GOAT in their Loaded roster going down in 6 by newbies/cp3 w/o much of a fight makes you realize that sometimes… You Just Can’t Win.
Take it like a …fan!

I love Boban

Reggie Jackson looking like an upgrade on Beverley

DRed:
I think Burks was probably more valuable for us this year than Bullock because we had such trouble generating shots, but if we find someone who can Bullock would be more useful.As people have pointed out Burks takes too many bad shots (which was fine this year, because of the alternatives)

Yeah, for this a team that had so much trouble generating basic offense, Burks was perhaps a bit more valuable. But if you assume that the offseason will bring with it at least one or two higher-level shot creators,, then suddenly having the fairly reliable 3-and-D of Bullock is more necessary than a poor man’s Lou Williams. Especially since we already have Young Lou Williams on the roster in IQ.

The Mavs have released the Boban. Force feeding him. And KP out there too.

Meanwhile Batum is playing center for LA.

Is the Wesr big or not guys? Make up your minds

Getting a first for Marcus Morris is looking more and more like a heist.

its crunch time…where’s kp?

Kawhi aging out of being one of the best defenders in the NBA and instead becoming one of the best offensive players in the NBA is a crazy career arc

KP came up big?

He wasn’t a non-factor but he wasn’t very good.

That was a truly impressive second half from Kawhi.

And I don’t know what was crazier – Mark Jackson saying that they should bring Boban back in with three minutes left or the fact I was in total agreement with him.

I will give Strat this much – the Mavs offense can get kind of stagnant in the halfcourt when Luka is in.

Terry Stotts out as Portland Trail Blazers’ head coach after nine seasons

well, that didn’t take long…i’d think they could move CJ for another more complementary player to liliard, at the 4 or 5 maybe…not sure what they can do with nurkic, he’s due 30 million plus each of the next two years, he is not worth it…covington needs to come off the bench…melo should retire…try to hang on to powell, and use simons more…

You guys are in mid-offseason form already. Very smooth.

okay then, let’s just say what everyone here is thinking – how was the movie donnie?

more importantly, are you a popcorn person? lotsa butter, no butter, little bit of butter? no salt, little bit of salt, carry your own salt?

what’s your favorite movie candy?

for a drink, do you go with:
a). water
b). soft drink
c). beer
d). milkshake

me: i’m a buttered popcorn with a water bottle and a bag of raisinets kind of guy…

although prior to the pandemic i was doing burgers, fries and beer during the movie…occasionally would switch things up with chicken tenders, nachos and a milkshake…they closed down the one theater that served food in the area though…

***okay then, let’s just say what everyone here is thinking – how was the movie donnie?***

It was better than the Blazer’s 4th quarter, but that’s not saying much I suppose…

(popcorn butter is a carcinogen (…and just say no to all that other stuff too (…besides the water))).

Players are often terrible GMs, Brian. We have ample evidence of this.

cybersoze: For me it’s popcorn w/ little bit of salt and a beer. 🙂

i have evolved…i was buttered, coke and raisenets…now, i am like cyber with the light salt, if available coke/cherry mix freezee (or agua) and milk duds (raisinets if no milk duds available)…and yeah if they sell aclohol…swap in a brewski for the freezee

pepper: anyone pumped up for the Azerbaijan F1 tomorrow?
Since I binge watched Formula 1: Drive to Survive on Netflix…I am addicted to F1…a new post pandemic hobby…

Used to love it in the 80s and 90s, but then it started to always have a car that is faster than anybody else (Schumacher’s Ferrari, Alonso’s Renault, Button’s BrawnGP, Vettel’s Red Bull and now for many years it’s Hamilton’s Mercedes), i lost interest. You let me know how’s the sport doing after the Azerbaijan GP, if it’s competitive again. 😉

The Honorable Cock Jowles: It’s bad if you base your decisions on the assumption that overperformance is indicative of future performance.

I think this Jowles’ comment flew under the radar, as i think we are all banking on Thibs overachieving as a given and that’s not very likely to happen season in and season out, i guess. Been giving it a thought and yeah, it’s best if we “just” bank on Thibs doing a good job, with no BS. Which is fine by me.

I am concerned about Thibs’ inability to be creative enough on offense to produce better shots, but I also am concerned with Randle and his ability to deal with how the Hawks defended him. I don’t even think the soft double played much of a role this series, but the way Randle’s individual defender crowded him and loaded up on his left was different than what we saw during the year (from what I remember). Randle didn’t seem comfortable with this, and his relatively slow release made it so his shots were even more contested. I’m not sure if this would make a difference in the “shot quality” metric, because his regular season shots were frequently contested as well, but I believe that the slight change of crowding and contesting his left side made these shots even worse. Hopefully, the league doesn’t catch on or Randle makes some adjustments. Or maybe he just learns how to make these shots?? That’s what he did last summer!

It took this board four years to come to a conclusion about Frank, he sucks.

it was a few people.. i think the vast majority knew what was up from the jump..

And even when it comes to memes, Kawhi is GOAT level, just like Jordan. Who doesn’t remember Kawhi’s laugh? LOL

I might be the biggest Porzingis skeptic here and even I’m surprised at the extent to which he’s been an utter non-factor in this series. Excellent job by the Clippers to plan their entire defensive scheme around stopping him, or something.

i’m wondering how much this dame situation is going to impact this offseason… on one hand if there’s a >0 possibility to land him you should keep all your powder dry for that possibility… OTOH, we’re also trying to take a step up on the win curve…

it’s going to be pretty hard as is to grab even the 5th seed next year so maybe we might play the one-year deal carousal again with a different cast of characters and three more picks…. i do think with the dame situation looming large that probably keeps us out out of the cp3 and lowry sweepstakes…. and we might go after someone younger to a)match with our core and b)matchup on a potential lillard trade better….

with the way dame is talking… this does have potential to blowup mid season and very possible next offseason if they don’t even make the playoffs… maybe we don’t get held hostage by this situation but i’d bet this is the next big superstar to move and we should def be in on that…

Happy Birthday, BigBlueAl!

(Though the Knicks are eliminated, I hope this birthday isn’t the most disappointing birthday of the season:)

Some covid update:
1) You guys in the US are all vaccinated by now, right? How’s life getting back to the old life pre-covid?
2) Do we have posters in Canada, or in other non-US parts of North America? Speak up, guys, i want to know how’s the situation over there where you live.
3) Saw Farfa saying he has already taken the shot, slovene knick for tomorrow, i’m for the end of the month. How’s the rest of the european folks (max, iserp, and the others i don’t know by name)? I guess we’re behind, but maybe in 2 months we’ll be with a very high percentage of vaccinated people in Europe and life getting back to normal;
4) In South America i think we only have Bruno, but if there’s more, you speak up also. How’s things in Brazil, Bruno? Is Bolsonaro fucking up this thing also, or is the vaccination program running well?
5) And down under, dtrickey and others i also don’t know by name, are you being vaccinated with speed, or as in your area covid isn’t a big problem, you’re not pressing it for now?
6) For last, i don’t think we have posters in Africa, Middle East and Asia, besides our expat KFNINJ, but if we have, please speak up, would like a lot to hear from you. KFNINJ, you’re already vaccinated, right? I think i remember you telling us that you work on a pharmaceutical company (or some similar business) and because of it you were one of the first to take it, but i might be wrong. How’s things over there, in China?

Some thoughts on Frank:

1. I had high hopes when he was drafted. In retrospect, I wish that Phil Jackson had gotten his way to trade KP & the 8th pick for Booker and the 4th pick.
2. Frank has never developed the ball handling skills to be a secondary creator, let alone a PG.
3. His spot up shooting is not as good as his shooting % would indicate, because the vast majority of his shots are standstill open shots. Sometimes he will take a dribble to sidestep a close out. He does not run off screens (like Reddick), take step backs or even dribble into 3s.
4. His defense is very good, but not great. He is not a great on-ball defender against quick PGs. He dies on screens too easily, leading to many switches. He is amazing at getting into passing lanes to create turnovers. He is also very good at helping and recovering.
5. He never had a nose for grabbing defensive rebounds, which is an important part of defense. At his height and with his wingspan, he could be a much better rebounder.
6. I think he might be a rotation player for the next few seasons as a 3&D guy. For example, if Boston trades Marcus Smart, he might slide in as a 7/8 man.
7. The rationale for picking Frank – that he was a great fit for a Triangle offense – never made sense.
8. As Philly has shown, a team can make a lot of front offense mistakes but still become a championship contender if they hit one MVP-caliber draft pick. Embiid makes up for a lot of horrible decisions (Noel, Okafor, Fultz, trading away Bridges on draft night and choosing Horford over Butler).

cybersoze:
Some covid update:
4) In South America i think we only have Bruno, but if there’s more, you speak up also. How’s things in Brazil, Bruno? Is Bolsonaro fucking up this thing also, or is the vaccination program running well?

A short answer would be South America is still fucked. Pretty much every country here is in the top 10 in deaths per million with Peru being by far the worst affected and Argentina, Colombia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Brazil, Bolivia, all having super high numbers.

Brazil is in a relatively ok state comparing to how things have gone so far, Bolsonaro is still doing everything he can to make sure more people die while still trying to take credit from vaccination, which is thankfully progressing decently well thanks to the efforts of state governments. I personally took my first shot already of astra zeneca and there’s real plans to open up for all age groups until early October. Since elections are next year its all been the usual Brazilian classic shit show where the good things that happen are pretty much byproducts of the political fights swinging one way or another.

Vaccination starting and proceeding slowly was also a big issue because it led many people to think ok, vaccines are out, let’s return to normal life, much earlier than they should have. So yeah, it’s still a dumpster fire but there’s at least light at the end of the tunnel for once despite our illustrious president.

TNFH – I agree that we really shouldn’t empty the cupboard for Dame. It would be Melo 2.0, (even though Lillard is obviously a better player), and we’d be looking at max 50 wins and 2nd round exits with no draft assets or youngsters to develop for years to come.

As wonderful as it would be to have a star point guard fir the first time in centuries, it’s just not worth the price that Portland will surely demand.

Portland really wouldn’t hire Kidd just to appease Dame, right? I mean, he’s great and all but he’s no LeBron – who actually does (or did) have the juice to make a front office dance to his tune.

And what does happen should PDX choose a coach not to Dame’s liking? Shit, who am I kidding. He’ll probably wind up on the Lakers somehow.

ephus:
Some thoughts on Frank:

2.Frank has never developed the ball handling skills to be a secondary creator, let alone a PG.
3.His spot up shooting is not as good as his shooting % would indicate, because the vast majority of his shots are standstill open shots.Sometimes he will take a dribble to sidestep a close out.He does not run off screens (like Reddick), take step backs or even dribble into 3s.
4.His defense is very good, but not great.He is not a great on-ball defender against quick PGs.He dies on screens too easily, leading to many switches.He is amazing at getting into passing lanes to create turnovers.He is also very good at helping and recovering.
5.He never had a nose for grabbing defensive rebounds, which is an important part of defense.At his height and with his wingspan, he could be a much better rebounder.
6.I think he might be a rotation player for the next few seasons as a 3&D guy. For example, if Boston trades Marcus Smart, he might slide in as a 7/8 man.
7. The rationale for picking Frank – that he was a great fit for a Triangle offense – never made sense.
8. As Philly has shown, a team can make a lot of front offense mistakes but still become a championship contender if they hit one MVP-caliber draft pick. Embiid makes up for a lot of horrible decisions (Noel, Okafor, Fultz, trading away Bridges on draft night and choosing Horford over Butler).

Well, since we’re back on Frank… I recall being shocked to see him take…and MAKE… a step back three this season. I mean, if the guy can do that more often, he’d be more of a factor. Might have been a fluke, though. Re his lack of rebounding, I think he’s a good perimeter defender to a fault. He stays out there all the time, very rarely fading in even a little bit to help rebound. Anyways, he’s almost certainly a goner.

djphan: it was a few people.. i think the vast majority knew what was up from the jump..

I tried to be hopefully, but even with the injuries I believe he’s had his opportunities. Same with Knox. Cut the losses and move on from them both this offseason – their spots should be replaced by our two upcoming 1st round picks.

Here’s my challenge with this team: it’s hard to see where the premiere, bona fide starting PG and wing player they need will come from this summer w/out gutting most of the roster. But they do need to find at least a starting PG. In the same breath, guys like Bullock, Burks and (to an extent) D.Rose & Noel proved to be capable placeholders, and that’s how they should be looked at going forward:
– Keep them while you look for their eventual replacements as long as the price is right.
– Don’t be afraid to replace them with other competent “placeholders” if they price themselves out of team flexibility.

Also: although it’s tough to see what starting level talent they can mine that will be available in their draft range, they need to keep at it. What the team showed this year is that they begun to understand they need to “save themselves” before they can look to attracting top-tier free agents. It’s AWESOME how much the team improved this year, but most of us realize that this is just (a great) Year One and:
1. We finally have the staff that can develop young players.
2. Yes, Thibs will play the young guys. (admittedly I feel this is dependent of #1)

You know what I just realized? It’s almost like we can engage in our own version of a mini-Process: there is a need for patience, but at the same time our “floor” is substantially higher than originally thought.

Excited to find other Raisinets fans here. I’m usually the only one in the room that loves them!

cybersoze:

3) Saw Farfa saying he has already taken the shot, slovene knick for tomorrow, i’m for the end of the month. How’s the rest of the european folks (max, iserp, and the others i don’t know by name)? I guess we’re behind, but maybe in 2 months we’ll be with a very high percentage of vaccinated people in Europe and life getting back to normal;

I was originally scheduled to take my first shot today, but I had to re-schedule because the second shot would have interfered with my annual “fresh air pilgrimage” to the Dolomites.
So I’ll take the first one june 16th and the second one july 21st.

Here in Italy the situation is “relatively good”, more than 70% of the over-50 population had at least one shot and now younger people are flocking to hubs.

Life’s slowly going back to normal even if you have to still be careful, wear mask and keep distance.

His rebounding would be irrelevant if he weren’t a stiff and could shoot .620 TS% on high volume. Just like no one would complain about [redacted] if he could nail the corner three and nothing else. But neither of those conditionals are real. But Porzingis is a max player, [redacted] was a lottery pick, one plus one is two, and that ain’t never gonna change. That’s factorial.

Ingmarrrr:
Reading this thread I’m realizing Thibs is the new Frank.

1. Both are defensive savants.
2. Their offense is a disaster.
3. They are not a point guard.
4. Z-Man will to go on a Churchillian battle for them, drawing blood, sweat and tears.
5. They have no answer for Trae Young.
6. Even this: one is French, the other has a French sounding family name.

It took this board four years to come to a conclusion about Frank, he sucks. Will Thibs last that long?

lol, I was on the other side ot the Frank argument, but point taken

Fun fact about Thibs:

He had been a starter at Salem State and an impressive player. In 1981, as a senior, he set the school’s single-game scoring record with 28 points against Rochester in the Division III tournament. Former teammates remember him for his dramatic changeover. He entered the school as a shoot-first guard and left it as a physical frontcourt force. (A scouting report of Thibodeau, the player, courtesy of John Furlong, a teammate: “He used to shoot from 35 feet like it was nothing. He would bomb away … He made himself into a really good power forward at 6-1, if you can believe that … He was just so strong. He used his body really well. He could shield people.”)

***The Infamous Cdiggy: Probably best to answer this on a state-by-state basis Here in Cali, we’re almost 44% fully vaccinated and the state is set to (mostly) reopen on the 15th of this month. I first thought that this was a bit too ambitious when the opening date was announced, but now I’m cautiously optimistic it can work.***

A friend of mine is a doctor of infectious diseases. Yesterday he was scheduled to work a double shift in the covid ward of one of the largest hospitals in LA. He came home in the early afternoon because there were no patients to treat.

There’s talk that LA could reach herd immunity in August, but, given the volume of mass exposures in November and December, the aggressive vaccine rollout, and the staggeringly low rates of infection rates we are seeing, August seems cautiously optimistic, especially here on the westside where all the wealthy, educated white folks have all been fully vaccinated since February. (In my particular community the vaccination rate is at 76%, the highest in the city).

Long post short, the pandemic feels over where I live. I know it’s not like that everywhere (or, really, anywhere), but the truth is that the vaccines work and if people would stop being stupid and take them, and if we can distribute them to every corner of the world (we can), this virus will be eliminated like a 28-94 shooting Julius Randle.

Troll Alert

If Thibs had put Vildoza on Trae Young now we’d be still playing bball!

Every sentence in that Pablo article made me happier than the one that came before it

Alan: Pablo Prigioni talking about Summer Thing Luca Vildoza

I’m trying to not have high expectations for him, to prevent from getting disappointed. But each article sets the expectations higher than before. Let’s hope he can justify the hype.

Knew Your Nicks:
What are the odds of Frank returning to the knicks next year?
Has Vegas any odds or is it still early?

That’s easy… ZERO!

Re: Dame, to keep flexibility and a future for the team, preventing a Melo 2.0 trade, the player we have to trade for Dame is Julius, not RJ.

Quickley too, I guess.

Not only we had an incredible regseason (and a shitty playoffs series but it’s ok) but it looks like we’re heading for a pretty interesting off-season!
Can’t Wait for Every Decision!

Alan: I don’t think Dame would want to come here if Randle wasn’t going to be his sidekick. (…) Dame plus Randle is a legit team right there in terms of balancing skillsets and ability (…)

I understand what you’re saying, and Dame’s reasoning. But that’s where i disagree, as RJ will continue to develop and we’d keep space to add another max guy to join Dame.
I just can’t see a pairing of Dame and Randle cracking the east top3, can you?

Dame in NY would be phenomenal but we may need to hire David Copperfield in the FO to get it done. I just can’t see how you keep Portland, NYK and Lillard all happy to make this trade reality instead of a wet dream and a PR move.

Happy Birthday BigBlueAl!
I’m wishing a Bucks over Nets Win for your birthday!

Donnie Walsh:
…
A friend of mine is a doctor of infectious diseases. Yesterday he was scheduled to work a double shift in the covid ward of one of the largest hospitals in LA. He came home in the early afternoon because there were no patients to treat.

There’s talk that LA could reach herd immunity in August, but, given the volume of mass exposures in November and December, the aggressive vaccine rollout, and the staggeringly low rates of infection rates we are seeing, August seems cautiously optimistic, especially here on the westside where all the wealthy, educated white folks have all been fully vaccinated since February. (In my particular community the vaccination rate is at 76%, the highest in the city)…

Really good to hear your doctor buddy could go home early. God only knows how many medical folk ave been overtaxed by this crisis.

Me and the Mrs live in South LA which is mixed bag of “hood” – thankfully the immediate neighborhood we live in is pretty decent – I’ve probably heard or seen move car accidents within my block in the 4 years here than cops responding to gun violence (in fact this by far the most amount of traffic accidents I’ve ever seen in one place in my life – people here really drive however the fuck they feel like). I don’t know the stats of my neighborhood, but my downstairs neighbor is in his late-60s and won’t get vaccinated b/c he feels there’s nothing man-made that’s not already provided by God, and that people who are physically fit (like him) don’t have to worry. I let him know that my dad is physically fit yet has had high BP as long as I’ve been alive (plus some other 9-11 based ailments) – it’s not his fault that he’s at higher risk. …

Knickerbloggers, tonight we are all part of Bucks nation

Fuck Brooklyn!

Happy birthday, BigBlueAL. Longtime and valued member of the community over here. Enjoy it

I’m in Ridgewood for the night if anyone wants to catch the second half of the Nets game.

What happened to Harden? I just turned on the game and saw him walking off the court? (commentary is in Chinese, so that’s no help to me). The score seems to be 2-0

Serious question… Would you package either Obi or IQ with one of our first round picks to move up to the late lottery?

Z-man:
Serious question… Would you package either Obi or IQ with one of our first round picks to move up to the late lottery?

No. I would certainly want to move up by giving two picks for one, but, as I’ve said before, I find it unlikely some other team will want to do that trade with us.

The entire NBA playoff landscape might have just changed with the Harden hamstring injury

man so many injuries at inopportune times to some very consequential teams…. altho the harden injury makes this series even more interesting than it already was….

Happy Birthday BigBlueAl!

Randle isn’t going anywhere

I just don’t get how this Harden injury doesn’t knock him out for basically the rest of the playoffs (like, maybe a Finals return?). It’s the same hamstring that was already injured, so a re-injury is a major issue for him.

Happy birthday, Al!

Got it in just ahead of midnight!

three spots open now: blazers, celtics and magic…the pelicans should probably be looking for a new coach also…it’ll be interesting to see if sam cassell gets a chance at being a head coach this next season…

Z-man: He had been a starter at Salem State and an impressive player. In 1981, as a senior, he set the school’s single-game scoring record with 28 points against Rochester in the Division III tournament. Former teammates remember him for his dramatic changeover. He entered the school as a shoot-first guard and left it as a physical frontcourt force. (A scouting report of Thibodeau, the player, courtesy of John Furlong, a teammate: “He used to shoot from 35 feet like it was nothing. He would bomb away … He made himself into a really good power forward at 6-1, if you can believe that … He was just so strong. He used his body really well. He could shield people.”)

Amazing. I bet he played 40 minutes a game every game and totally intimidated his coaches so that they wouldn’t dare taking him out.

Can we get a new thread, Brian? Load times are becoming a hassle.

I’m not thrilled about the prospects of trading up in this draft. After the top five, a lot of the talent is pretty even (why draft Mitchell at 10 when you can get Butler at 21 for instance.)

I suppose if they really like Giddey, he could be a wild card. Also, maybe there’s a plan to move up to 7 or 8 and package that pick with a ‘22 pick and a young player to get into the top five? I could get behind that route.

Otherwise, I’d prefer they stay at their current positions and load up on potential, regardless of what Thibs wants.

Embiid is playing and the Hawks are holding themselves. Looks like we didn’t lost to some scrubs. 😛

I would 100% double-trap Trae and force the other guys to beat me….interesting why we or Sixers don’t

cybersoze: Used to love it in the 80s and 90s, but then it started to always have a car that is faster than anybody else (Schumacher’s Ferrari, Alonso’s Renault, Button’s BrawnGP, Vettel’s Red Bull and now for many years it’s Hamilton’s Mercedes), i lost interest. You let me know how’s the sport doing after the Azerbaijan GP, if it’s competitive again. 😉

not sure if you saw the results but it was crazy…leader blew a tire with two laps to go…they stopped the race and on the restart…hamilton..one of the greatest of all time…and who was in 2nd at the stoppage…pressed some brake lock up button and couldn’t drive his car and fell all the way to the bottom…so the 3-4-5 guys with two laps to go…ended up being 1-2-3…classic…

pepper: not sure if you saw the results but it was crazy…leader blew a tire with two laps to go…they stopped the race and on the restart…hamilton..one of the greatest of all time…and who was in 2nd at the stoppage…pressed some brake lock up button and couldn’t drive his car and fell all the way to the bottom…so the 3-4-5 guys with two laps to go…ended up being 1-2-3…classic…

Wow, that looks like a fantastic race. One of these days i must give it a try.

The Honorable Cock Jowles: I’m on an airplane. Who is defending Trae?

Danny Green, i think

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
I’m on an airplane. Who is defending Trae?

Currently, Danny Green and he’s making Reggie Bullock look like a lockdown defender. Green falling for the foul from behind ruses.

Ben Simmons is 10-30 on FTs in six playoffs games…

How a professional basketball player can’t learn to shoot 70% from the line is one thing I will never understand….

Feeling much better about our boys getting torched by Trae. He’s amazing.

If Philly watched the film from our series, they certainly did not learn from it.

As woeful as the Knicks looked at times against ATL, they never had as dismal a half as the Sixers just had against the same opponent. Something to feel good about, I guess.

Also: the draft day trade that brought the Hawks Trae instead of Luka is looking less awful by the day. Especially if Reddish turns out to be a serviceable player.

Good *quick* adjustments by Rivers — putting Ben on Trae and trapping. Let’s see if it works

Jacob deGrom has a 1.02 FIP

That’s rather good

JK47:
Jacob deGrom has a 1.02 FIP

That’s rather good

Three extremely well-deserved Cy Youngs is going to solidify him as an immortal pitcher…what’s crazy is that it sort of came out of nowhere!

After having Simmons defend Trae successfully for a few minutes, Doc switched back to Danny Green. Trae immediately carved up the D, with assists and one drive.

simmons picked up 3 fouls on trae… he’s probably saving him for the 4th with a good foul situation…

JK47:
deGrom has Nolan Ryan’s stuff (but better) and Greg Maddux’s control

And Babe Ruth’s bat…

The thing about running traps at a highly skilled PG is that they eventually become predictable and they throw the whole defense out of balance, essentially creating a 4 on 3. The Hawks seem to have faced that all year (it’s logical to assume that opposing teams have trapped Trae many times) and have a scheme to address it to create an easy look from 3 or a dunk. It’s almost as if the roster and offense is constructed to be trap-proof.

Murphy is mocked all over the place, from the teens to the second round.

How strong is this draft class considered? Pretty strong, right?

Even trying to deny Trae the ball is challenging because he has such great body control and footwork that he can create space against pretty much anyone to receive a pass.

Seems like the best thing to do is to throw different looks at him, with the goal of having him take contested shots without fouling him. Traps are part of that, but not to the point when they become predictable.

Great game by the Hawks, but the Sixers have to be embarrassed by their effort today. It’s really surprising from a Doc Rivers team.

I think the best way to play defense on them is not to double. If they want to drive to the paint all day so be it. Philadelphia is losing because of the total amount of 3s Atlanta has hit. Make them beat you with 2 pointers.

Jason Kidd withdrew from consideration for the Portland head coaching job saying that the endorsement from Dame made it untenable for both him and Dame.

I wonder if Johnny Bryant is now in the running. From all accounts, he is close with Dame.

Bryant was widely credited with helping with the Knicks’ player development this year.

cybersoze:
A rule to prevent this Trae sh*t of not picking the ball is needed

I honestly thought there was already a rule in place. I thought the inbound 5 second penalty covered it. I guess not.

The Sixers are not dead, it seems…

Z-man:
This pace has to favor the Hawks. Embiid’s knee is a time bomb out there.

The Sixers are fighting back, but it’s probably too late. Embiid is risking a more serious injury, I believe.

oh my

Another incredible shot in the clutch for Bogdanovic.

Where do we get us one of these Bogdanovics?

Bogdanovic must be an ancient Slavic term for “assasin.”

I’m not a doctor but Embiid has not looked like someone dealing with a fairly serious knee injury

thenoblefacehumper:
I’m not a doctor but Embiid has not looked like someone dealing with a fairly serious knee injury

He seemed to be favoring it at times…probably playing through significant pain.

When Mike Breen decided to say “Doncic feeling it”, he airballed the 3P. 😀

thenoblefacehumper: Luka with 19 points on 7 FGAs.

Amazing, and with the best defender of the NBA on him a lot of the time.

It’s amazing, PG 13 is guarding KP and he’s. barely breaking a sweat

KP’s defense regressed hard, right? I remember him as a very good defender.

thenoblefacehumper: I’m furious it deprives us of seeing Luka could do with some better players players around him

Easy, he can sign the QO and then come to NY! 😉

If Luka was a free agent this year he’d be so gone from Dallas

So much for defense dominated playoff games

Bruno Almeida: no way he finishes this max on Dallas

Do they have draft picks to send as sweetener? I think they need to remove the protections of the 2023 pick they owe us to have draft picks available for trades.

cybersoze:
Kawhi doesn’t agree with Alan’s plan. He’s not losing this series.

Dammit, Kawhi!

I know it would set NBA twitter on fire, but I’m still rooting for a Clippers / Nets finals so we can see Durant and Kawhi going against each other in a real playoff series.

One could describe KP’s performance as pusillanimous.

Z-man: One could describe KP’s performance as pusillanimous.

Does that mean without a pulse?

Z-man: Not in the Bronx

Ok, i think i see what you mean 😉

The Clips got better contributions from their role players (Morris, Kennard, Mann, Jackson, Batum),
I feel for THJr, he had a great season but he went MIA today.
Interesting things are coming in Dallas…

Why would Dallas need kemba when they have Brunson?

Rick “I lose in the first round” Carlisle would have been fired how many years ago if he wasn’t a white guy?

Ahahaha. Can you imagine the sh*t Strat would be writing if Luka was on the Knicks and he got to watch him every day?

It probably won’t happen, but the Mavs overpaying Hardaway Jr and having him and KP occupy half of their cap space would be some ninja trade stuff by Mills, even if accidentally.

There’s no way Jason Kidd has ethics, right? I think something else is going on there with that Portland deal. Maybe he thinks he will get a better gig?

Van Gundy said during the game that Doncic should have had about 20 assists, but his teammates kept bricking shot after shot. The Mavs certainly will pay Hardaway as he’s their best shooter, they can’t possibly let him go without enraging Luka after they traded Seth Curry away for Josh Richardson, who has been absolutely useless too, and got J.J. Redick and Melli to sit on the bench for a 2nd rounder.

They’re trying to build a Rockets Harden style of team around him, but they seemingly forgot that those Rockets teams had plus defenders and at least one decent rim runner in Capela to give him options on drives. Now they’re capped, KP’s stock is at an all-time low and have no picks. You love to see it.

offense isn’t really their issue… they’ve been a top offensive team the last couple of years… they’ve just had tremendous issues on defense… and the center of that is literally kp… but they haven’t had great defensive personnel either… they tried changing that with the richardson deal but he was too unreliable on offense…

the narrative has probably gone too negative on kp…. he’s made SOME progress on the offensive end… but he’s still kleenex soft and in the playoffs.. even in this day and age… that’s a big nono for a center… it does take awhile for defense to develop in big men so i wouldn’t put it past him to get better there… but he needs to toughen up first and that’s not something that comes very easily for a guy like that..

So much for hoping the Clips would falter and Kawhi thinking about staying w/them. Though the Clips advancing while the Lakers faltering is… amusing.

Kawhi Leonard: the guy my AD told me was a “done deal” to sign with the Lakers. 😉

Maybe the Blazers told him there was no way they would consider him and he is saving face

But then Dame looks like a moron, right? Going public with wanting a coach when the team has already decided on another guy? Weird, no?

I’d argue Dame looks like a moron already for wanting Kidd as a coach in the first place, and making a public statement about that so early after the elimination and firing of Stotts. I think all the talk about Lillard’s clutch play and loyalty and the general love fest around him has masked some weird stuff he has said and done, talking about how his loyalty is his biggest flaw in his career, stuff like this. He feels like a Jimmy Butler type that has an over inflated idea of himself when in reality he’s merely a really damn good player, but not a top 5 / 10 talent that can feasibly carry a team to contention on his own.

I’d love to have him on the Knicks, he’d be our best PG in so damn long, but I think there are worries to be had, age, asking price, this mentality, etc. I still think Portland is going nowhere and he’s probably going to choose to sink with the ship until the end while simultaneously dropping hints that he “deserved better”, and the Kidd thing is a part of this act.

Cuban has come out indicating he won’t make a coaching change, so it’s probably not happening. I don’t think they could find a much better option anyway, so it makes sense.

Dallas only has $83M in salary committed for next season, so they could let THJ walk and use their cap space to bring in someone else. The problem is that the pickings are mighty thin at this year’s free agent buffet.

The Lakers, on the other hand, have to past Schroeder because they are already over the cap. If they let him walk, they will only have the MLE to find a replacement. They could do a sign-and-trade, if they found a team that wanted Schroeder and was willing to send back win-now assets. The funniest choice would be if OKC sent Horford for Schroeder.

The Infamous Cdiggy:
So much for hoping the Clips would falter and Kawhi thinking about staying w/them. Though the Clips advancing while the Lakers faltering is… amusing.

Kawhi Leonard: the guy my AD told me was a “done deal” to sign with the Lakers. 😉

I think some Laker’s fans are really mad the Clippers won. I was told of a fan here in China that hates Kawhi because he didn’t want to play with LeBron and chose the Clippers instead of the Lakers. Now that same fan is really upset the Clippers beat Dallas.