2021 NBA Playoffs Game Thread: Knicks vs. Hawks, Game 5 – All I Need is a Miracle

Very important game even for next year,
back against the wall, opponents blatantly calling you out,
time to react, time to show something.

Let’s go Knicks!

E stands for empty, as in intellectual capacity

Not in our House!

LFGK!

Julius is going for the triple-double tonight. Let’s gooooo Knicks!

Listening to Clyde and Breen right now is like returning to civilization.

On a worrisome note, June 2nd is not a good day in Knicks history. The Charles Smith game was June 2nd 1993 and the Knicks got eliminated in Game 6 of the 2000 Conference Finals vs Indiana on June 2nd as well. Both games at MSG.

Prediction: If Randle and RJ score more than 50 combined points, the Knicks will win. Below 40, they will lose. In between, not sure.

Crowd is rowdy during the anthem. It is either going to be great or ugly.

***June 2nd is not a good day in Knicks history.***

Isn’t every day pretty much a shitty day in Knicks history? (But, to be fair to June 2nd, any game in June can’t be THAT bad, right? Better to play and lose than to not play at all…)

doing a marv retrospective on tnt

well..that was short and sweet

Enjoy this battle!

Donnie Walsh:
***June 2nd is not a good day in Knicks history.***

Isn’t every day pretty much a shitty day in Knicks history? (But, to be fair to June 2nd, any game in June can’t be THAT bad, right? Better to play and lose than to not play at all…)

Actually my birthday is June 5th and that’s a great day in Knicks history! 1994 Game 7 vs Indiana and the LJ 4pt play in 1999 both were on June 5th.

Stress

Like the energy, don’t like the mental errors.

more of the same julius…no bueno

JFC Randle continues to be beyond awful this series.

Randle’s shot in the first two offensive actions made me puke,
let the game flows to you,
instead he forced and missed, forced and missed, like Homer Simpson playing with fire…

And then this stupid foul on Collins… and then the turnover… and then the missed three…

JK47:
Still not punishing Trae’s crummy defense

Yup. In contrast, Hawks exploiting the mismatch against Rose right away and repeatedly.

Maybe Obi will save the day?

We need better D and better O

And what the hell. Noel has been so tough all year.
What happened…?

Reggie for MVP 😀

Put in Frank we need some fucking shooting out there

. Noel has been so tough all year.
What happened…?

HIs ankle or foot is fucked up

2020 Randle and Invisible Barrett are killing us.

Gotta make Trae pay when he goes inside…

Burks was standing in the corner unguarded. Randle shot a contested three. Brick

Randle looked off Burks open for the corner 3 to take a contested 3.

Capela is out and the lane is open.

Rose looks like he’s laboring.

Much better now!
Keep the chill intensity goin!

I’ve been saying al series bring Randle off the bench, capela is killing us

Reggie Bullock is lit!

Randle needs to look to pass. They’re collapsing on him and leaving shooters open in the corner repeatedly and he’s not finding them

I mean, I don’t know how that’s not a flagrant, I have taken one of those in the temple and it does not feel good

Under current rules, that is probably a Flagrant 1. In 1988, that was literally the way players were coached to protect defensive rebounds.

Randle going WWE

I guess I’m just used to 90s basketball.

Chill Julius
Don’t fuck the team

No flagrant. We got lucky.

Nah that was fine. Maybe an offensive foul. Okongwu sold it well.

DRose is going to need a B-12 shot at halftime.

Hubert:
I’m not proud of this. Capela was right. This is fake tough. Real tough would be scoring against this defense.

Agree, stupid immature and unnecessary macho foul, he was lucky they didn’t call the flagrant.

Randle and Young both played the entire first quarter.

Let’s see if the Knicks can put up some points with Obi to start the second quarter.

I would hunt Lou Williams on defense. He is even worse than Trae Young.

Owen:
Although, he actually didnt hit him very hand looks like. Looked very different from the other angle.

He clearly didn’t hit him hard. You can tell by the reaction. A solid elbow hit he would have hit the floor.

DudesTown: DRose is going to need a B-12 shot at halftime.

And some electroshock for Julius, please 😛

ephus:
Randle and Young both played the entire first quarter.

Let’s see if the Knicks can put up some points with Obi to start the second quarter.

I would hunt Lou Williams on defense.He is even worse than Trae Young.

I was surprised that Young didn’t get a rest. Maybe the Hawks are a little nervous too?

This should be the way we played from game 1

IQ!

Quick quick!

Q-BOMB!

IQ throws a lob for Noel that he could not handle. Mitchell Robinson would have dunked it emphatically.

RJRJRJRJRJRJRJRJRJR!

Mike Breen is doing some coaching along with his play-by-play. Later, he will sell popcorn.

The Knicks are doing a better job of hunting Williams and Young on D. So far, it has not led to great results.

I think they should give Pelle a short run against Capela.

RJ looks like rookie RJ. Straight to the cup, no move, shot gets blocked

My 19-year-old daughter is watching with me and I’m both happy and guilty

these missed opportunities are going to come back to bite us in the butt…some seriously inept offense…

Featuring Spree in the house. Actually, maybe he could suit up.

Because the Knicks do not have any defenders who can stay in front of Young or Williams, they are constantly in rotation. This leads to open 3s. So far, the Hawks have not made many. That may change.

Not a good sign that the Knicks are losing when the Hawks are 2-15 from 3.

Barrett’s layups are embarrassing…

That RJ layup came after Bullock set a pick and Young matadored the defense to let RJ into the lane.

I often think Breen would be better in the radio.

That’s it, RJ, overpower him

Trae can pass the hell out of the ball

Gotta say that was pretty by Young/Collins

Randle keeps jumping in the air. Stop it

Flagrant????

Randle is completely terrified of Capella. He needs to take the 3 when open.

we’re beings outclassed….Randle is mentally shot…rose has no energy…going to need a 2nd half miracle

The criteria for what is a flagrant foul seems to be all over the place.

This feels like it’s going to be a 12 point deficit before the half

This call can cost us the game.

P.S. yes, another dumb foul and this time we weren’t lucky.

They’re going to bury us in the second half if we don’t get the offense going

Yes julius. When you are open on the three point line shoot. Don’t tuck the ball and try to bulldoze the defensive line.

Hunter is a pretty good looking player.

At least the Yankees seem to be waking up which is good timing with the Knicks season seemingly ending soon.

Our season isn’t going to end today, keep the faith

That was a bullshit foul

Barrett’s shot that went in and out is a clear sign,
the basketball gods aren’t with us.

I was about to suggest hack a capela but he looked pretty good on those free throws.

at least it’s a single digit deficit

Randle threw the ball at Trae Young while he was on the ground. How about you calm down and play smart instead?

JoMo:
It just seems like we’re struggling in the exact same ways in game 5 as we were in game 1.

FWIW I feel your same pain.

Still in…but it doesn’t seem easy to win this one

There’ll be a lot of topics to discuss in the off-season…

Second half to-dos: launch threes and REBOUND.

I’m tired of seeing these guys act hard after the whistle while they act soft AF when they have the ball. Clint Capela scares the whole damn team with his eyes. He doesn’t even have to commit fouls because no one’s going at him.

How do we get one of these phantom whistle Trae Young motherfuckers who get you six free bullshit points every game

I can sense Thibs’ fear of using non vets more but he should may improvise in the 2nd to have a chance of winning this one

Hmmm, who was the imbecile that said Thibs should bench Bullock?

I’m tired of seeing these guys act hard after the whistle while they act soft AF when they have the ball.

Yeah. Agree.

It reminds me of the Tyson/Holyfield bite fight. Tyson was acting like some sort of maniacal badass after the fight was stopped, but it’s like dude, you just had the fucking guy in a boxing ring and you had permission to punch him in the face. THAT was the time to be a tough guy.

We’re fighting, and it’d be so good to get this one

Yeah they aren’t doing a good job of mimicking the 90’s Knicks with their fake tough guy act.

Pretty tough to mimic the 90s Knicks when a touch foul is considered a flagrant.

This Knicks Assistant Coach looks like how I imagine every Knickerblogger poster

That should be challenged.

Wow these are some horseshit ass whistles happening in this motherfucker

Knicks got Trae on RJ in the lane, which led to a wide open Bullock 3. Missed.

Rose can barely run.

Bullshit call on Randle. Come the fuck on.

I mean, I kind of get the call. Sort of. But it’s still bullshit.

We need to hit some threes fast

DudesTown:
So when Trae jumps into the defender its 3 free throws but when Randle does it, it’s an offensive foul. I get it now.

Only ’cause Trae is so cute and cuddly.

Capela is what we hope Mitch can become…

you know, they kinda defend Rose the same way they defend Randle. Rose just handles it well.

Rose goes right around the defender who is trying to force him to the sideline, whereas Randle does what he wants.

Rose also attacks Capela, whereas Randle gets scared.

ISO Randle isn’t my favorite

The Hawks keep forcing Randle to handle with his right hand. It is leading to a lot of turnovers.

I’m out. Game over. Randle is awful today

Not sure there has ever been a worst individual performance in a playoff series than Randle’s.

We’re not getting stops either

Tonight is on Randle, not Thibs. Screens have gotten Young on Randle at least 4 times that led to Randle turnovers.

there you go RJ! attack that motherfucker!!!! finally

Bring in the fucking bench

They have a lot of good players. I don’t know whose ours are currently.

Rose looks terrible. Definitely hurt.

I’m at the stage where I think we’d be better off with Toppin on the court than Randle.

stubborn ol’thibs…going down with his guyz

Put in Quickley. Or Payton. Something different.

The collective IQ of this team is negative

I’ve been critical of thibs’ stubbornness but you go down with your guys. If they can’t win an elimination game
at home, what’s the point?

Maybe he should be giving Rose a rest for IQ, but that’s all.

Is it goodbye? Should we wait another decade for a playoff or this is an annual routine

We need shooting and a jolt of offense. IQ should be in there because we’re drowning right now.

This offense is so bad… this statement doesn’t do it justice. A coach that has made zero adjustments all series and this is our offense now. We are doomed…

Young Julius Randle will go into the offseason knowing what he has to work on. Same for RJ. They’ve made great advances. The growth needs to continue.

A great offensive player can “get to his spot”. Randle has not been able to get to his spots for most of this series.

Deeefense:
This Hawks team is good enough to give problems to almost anyone in the league.

I’m pretty sure they’re going to get stomped next round.

bidiong the not so great: I’m pretty sure they’re going to get stomped next round.

With no Embiid … they have a shot

“I’m pretty sure they’re going to get stomped next round.”

Exactly. Don’t underestimate how bad we have been.

This is sad.

Beyond pathetic

Nerlens isn’t healthy, it’s why he’s not starting.

Just f**ing unleash IQ. I mean WTF.

>I’m pretty sure they’re going to get stomped next round<

I didn’t say they were as good as the Bucks, Nets, or healthy 76ers, but they aren’t a full tier below them. They’ll win games and be competitive.

IQ with the nice defensive play too

Leave the kid in

Oh look, more good stuff from Quickly.

yeah, I don’t think my “let IQ play with Randle” idea is looking so bad.

EDIT: but maybe get that floater up a little higher over Capela!!

I’d like to see him just launch the long bombs.

Okongwu looks about as I expected him, which is pretty solid (and apparently exactly like Capela.) Although it’s funny how much smaller he looks next to NBA players than he did in college.

Things are so bad I agree with Wally – they need to get shooters on the floor and run

Brian Cronin:
He went to the other one of his two moves and they were waiting for it.

As if anyone else on the team has more than two moves 😉

IQ cannot be stopped.

KJG: With no Embiid … they have a shot

Just announced he has a small mensicus tear too.

It would be a crime if Thibs takes IQ out of this game.

IQDWIQD

Burks does not pass to Toppin.

There we go RJ

Never take him out, Nate! Never take him out!

Young guys bringing us back… Come on!

Ride Obi and IQ until the Hawks figure them out.

Leave the bench in!!!!

KJG: I just don’t love our starters this series at all.

If we remember the winning streak. Our bench almost always outplayed the other team’s bench. Just play the f**ing kids!!!

Ride Obi and IQ until the Hawks figure them out.

yeah you’re right. just let em play!

Would be great to see the end game lineup as Obi, Randle, Barrett, Burks, and Rose

If McMillan is not a really bad coach, he will get Young back in the game. He also will not let Huerter bring the ball up.

I think his schemes are good, but his in-game management has left much to be desired. His players have just executed better. But he did bring in Young to close the game out and took Gallo off the court, so that was something.

I remember a few years ago Jowles saying Capella was as good as Pippen. That kind of talk seems to have faded, but, man, he is good. (And if he played alongside Jordan in the 1990s he probably WOULD be considered an all-time great).

What is a flagrant foul?!? I have no idea.

We go on these fake little runs to chip the lead from 14 to 9 and then just give it all back.

We’re not capable of outplaying the Hawks for more than a minute or two at a time

Good thing modern refs weren’t calling LJ’s four-point play.

I like those BS fouls more when it is IQ drawing them.

I mean, it’s a foul. It’s total bullshit and I hate it so much. Fucking irritating.

It’s fine when IQ does it though

EDIT: Brian, great minds and all that

Capela wasn’t afraid to talk shit bc he knew they had us on a string.

Depression setting in.

Hubert: Capela wasn’t afraid to talk shit bc he knows they have us on a string.

Can you stop, please

ephus:
Prediction: If Randle and RJ score more than 50 combined points, the Knicks will win. Below 40, they will lose.In between, not sure.

So far, RJ and Randle have combined for 33 points. Not nearly enough.

The NBA has done well with rules changes. The next one is cutting out the 3 free throws for incidental contact 30 feet from the basket.

IQ thinks he’s playing with Mitch

This is the opposite kind of run that I wanted.

ephus:
Throwing lobs to Noel is not a good strategy, unless he is standing alone.

Even then I wouldn’t recommend it

In addition to the horrible inefficiency and turnovers, really disappointed in Randle’s leadership ..def not a face of the franchise player.

How different would this game be with Mitch in there?

Much, but to be fair, it’d also be different if Noel was healthy.

We’re not playing well but the Hawks deserve some credit for that. Their defense doesn’t allow many open perimeter shots and no penetration either.

Agreed. Their gameplan clearly has been to keep the Knicks from getting hot from three, figuring that that is the only way the Knicks can really go on a run.

Safe to say the series was lost when Young hit that floater to win Game 1.

Randle and RJ have some soul searchin’ to do over the break and so does Thibs…he is not beyone reproach on some of his decision making downt the stretch (albeit his options are thin) and inability to answer McMillan…lotta work to do this summer…

looks like julius will be signing that extension, if it’ll still be offered (which it should)…

yep, historic type regular season to playoff collapse for julius…oh well…

Really poor showing. Poor sportsmanship too. They stooped to a level and never came back. Karma is real.

why does young do that thing with not picking up the ball when his team is winning?

Don’t be sad that it is over. Be happy that it happened in the first place.

It’s gonna be a very interesting off season and probably most exciting off season since summer of 2010.

Thank you Knicks on an unbelievably fun season.

Why was the clock running??

It’s only the second time in ten tries that a McMillan team advance to the second round (take that for data)

🙂

Hubert:
why does young do that thing with not picking up the ball when his team is winning?

I think it runs the game clock but preserves the shot clock.

Having Hunter back is pretty big too.

I mean, Hunter or RJ for the next ten years?

Hubert:
why does young do that thing with not picking up the ball when his team is winning?

To run extra time off of the clock. Until there are 2:00 left, the clock keeps running after a made basket, but the the 24 second clock does not start until the ball is touched.

I picked the Hawks in six, so I can’t say I’m surprised that we lost, there’s a clear talent gap in their favor.
But I’m very, very disappointed with how we lost.

The gritty fighting team that never gave up went down not with a bang, but with three whimpers in a row … we were dominated and humiliated on our own court.

The playoffs define you as a player and define teams.
We need to review a lot of opinions on our players and there is a lot of work to be done in the offseason.
This team, as currently constructed, is a play-in wannabe next year.

But this was a great, surprisingly fun year, it was worth the ride.

Fuck Trae Young. I wish terrible knee injuries on him.

Gotta say: That last “Let’s go Knicks” chant gave me chills.

Great season, guys. Completely unexpected. Much to discuss for next year.

Very disappointing end to the year but a lot to like about this team going forward and that’s more we could have said in a long time.

Lot of work to do in the off-season to take that next step. Gotta think that Mitch makes a huge difference in the season so they get better simply getting him back next year.

Lastly, it’s been a helluva ride everyone, and I am glad I have been able to share this season with this board. Misery loves company as they say. Keen for our draft/off-season discourse.

Rose limping off the floor… Obviously is in fact hurt.

Z:
The good news is that James Dolan is going to be sad.

The bad news is the team is still owned by dolan and the last time we had a surprisingly good season we traded for Andrea Bargnani.

That sucked, but this has been the most fun season here on Knickerblogger Dot Net that I can remember.

Time to go to work, Leon…

Having Hunter back is pretty big too.

I mean, Hunter or RJ for the next ten years?

Going with RJ is probably the smarter move because he’s 3 years younger.

“vincoug
June 2, 2021 at 10:11 pm

The bad news is the team is still owned by dolan and the last time we had a surprisingly good season we traded for Andrea Bargnani.”

*

Who is the Bargnani of 2021?? Wiggins?

One never knows what the future holds but this season was definitely a memorable one.

I forgive you, Julius, because you gave us everything that you had to give. Actually, the entire team did.

Z:
“vincoug
June 2, 2021 at 10:11 pm

The bad news is the team is still owned by dolan and the last time we had a surprisingly good season we traded for Andrea Bargnani.”

*

Who is the Bargnani of 2021?? Wiggins?

Good call, they both don’t give a fuck about basketball…

I think the hawks had significant injuries during our 3 reg season wins. We had significant injuries this series and they were at full strength. Not that this is the only reason they beat us, but it certainly helps.

Obviously they are also long and athletic and we shot terribly….but just an observation. Health is so important.

It was a fun year! Thanks everyone for the constant running commentary.

I think the hawks had significant injuries during our 3 reg season wins. We had significant injuries this series and they were at full strength. Not that this is the only reason they beat us, but it certainly helps.

The first game they were only missing Gallo, but yeah, they missed a few guys in the second game and Young missed the fourth quarter and overtime in the third game (that they obviously needed overtime to win).

Powell and Payne and pray for rain.

The biggest Knicks need for next season is a point guard who can defend at the point of attack and break defenders down off of the dribble.

The second biggest Knicks need is a center who can defend the pick and roll and provide an offensive threat. Fortunately, Mitchell Robinson should fill that need.

The third biggest void is a wing scorer who can create his own offense. Can RJ or IQ be that guy?

Under contract: IQ/RJ/Randle/Vildoza/Mitch/Obi/Pelle. Vildoza and Pelle are not guaranteed. Randle is only $4 million guaranteed, but that becomes fully guaranteed unless he is waived by June 30 (or whenever the NBA deems to be the equivalent date in this strange season). Robinson’s money is not guaranteed for next year, but the Knicks will either bring him back for a last cheap season or sign him to an extension.

Z:
“vincoug
June 2, 2021 at 10:11 pm

The bad news is the team is still owned by dolan and the last time we had a surprisingly good season we traded for Andrea Bargnani.”

*

Who is the Bargnani of 2021?? Wiggins?

Wiggins is a good one but I think the answer is Porzingis.

vincoug: Wiggins is a good one but I think the answer is Porzingis.

So if we’ve traded neo-Bargnani away already, does that reverse the curse?

Donnie Walsh:
Well, Carlisle starting Porzingis AND Boban is certainly not drawing from the Thibs playbook…

Hey, the West is big man.

Doug Chu: So if we’ve traded neo-Bargnani away already, does that reverse the curse?

Well, dolan’s still here so no the curse has not been reversed yet.

Wow, I’m just seeing the Ainge/Brad Stevens news… it’s going to be an interesting offseason.

vincoug: Well, dolan’s still here so no the curse has not been reversed yet.

FACK

ess-dog:
Wow, I’m just seeing the Ainge/Brad Stevens news… it’s going to be an interesting offseason.

It’s so weird that they’re elevating Stevens to that role. At least he isn’t going to be coach and POBO but how often does this type of thing work out?

lol I was unconscious for the only good part of this series.

So who here has the ability to tamper with Lillard?

Well, that was a good reality check.

Randle can’t be this team’s 1st option — maybe not its 2nd option either. And it has become clear that none of these vets are irreplaceable save maybe Reggie.

Quickley, RJ, Mitch, and to a lesser extent Obi are going to have to step up next season. They need to sign a real point guard (Cam Payne?) and get some more good, young players on board. Then, try to make a splash in ’22.

It’s such a damn shame that there’s no big name free agents available this year, this could be Nets 2.0.

Considering that preThibs we all wanted Randle out of NY asap we shouldn’t expect him to turn to Lebron no2 after only a few months but he’s definitely improved!

That was a Hell of a (reg) season!

Thanks to all knicks/kbers for the beautiful memories!

Off season we here!

perhaps a controversial opinion, but I kinda like Trae Young.

I’ve been saying this to people throughout the series. Sorry, but responding to all the vitriol with this level of play is objectively badass and we’d recognize that if he was doing it against any other team.

I joined in on all the chants obligatorily but it felt hollow. He is extremely good and it’s fun to watch someone of his physical stature succeed. Sure, he draws cheap fouls, but if that’s disqualifying, well, I have bad news about most NBA superstars.

I look forward to watching him play for the next 10+ years. Hopefully we can get someone like that of our own.

Hubert: lol I was unconscious for the only good part of this series.

Clearly, if we want to win more the answer is to have you get run over by a succession of larger vehicles.

Brian Cronin: The worst thing about it is that they gained no benefit doing it then rather than waiting until the season was over.

Drove me insane. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason to stretch Noah. Of course, there was also no reason to sign Noah to that contract in the first place.

ephus: 1. Pat Riley
2. Red Auerbach

It’s not a long list.

Those are the only two I was able to think of also. There’s obviously some crossover skillwise between the front office and coaching but they do really require mostly different skillsets and a really different outlook on team needs.

Trae Young has some flaws but he’s a wonderfully talented offensive player. Capela is very good, and then guys like Collins, Hunter, Huerter, Gallo and Bogdanc can all play and with a competent coach that’s a good team.

Rose was asked if he’ll be back next year. He said he knows the front office has big plans for the off-season and that he’d like to be back but it will be up to them.

“Big plans” sounds a lot like we going to be doing major trades or trying to sign a significant free agent and not drafting 2-3 players. The picks and who knows who else will be on the block boys.

Good job. Good effort.

ephus: 1.Pat Riley
2.Red Auerbach

It’s not a long list.

Add
3. Jerry West.

I forgot that he coached the Lakers in the late 1970s.

>Trae Young has some flaws but he’s a wonderfully talented offensive player. <

He has gone from talented scorer and passer without a clue to excellent basketball player in a short period of time. He may never be a good defender but when you have Capela behind you it limits the damage. As long as they don’t have any other very weak links on the court with him he’ll be fine.

Trae is a really good player, but the Hawks and their 3 fans will regret till the end of time not taking Luka Doncic, a once in a generation player

Big time three by Porzingis! That was a Luka pass to the corner for an open three that worked!

***d-mar
June 3, 2021 at 12:13 am

Trae is a really good player, but the Hawks and their 3 fans will regret till the end of time not taking Luka Doncic, a once in a generation player***

*

That trade is looking a bit less horrible now. Trae Young is a very good modern NBA player, and has immense upside. And though the Reddish pick wasn’t good, there were some intriguing names that Atlanta passed over in 2019, so the trade could have been close to a wash, even with Doncic’s meteoric rise.

on the floor with kawhi and pg13 – and he was better than both of them combined, that’s just incredible…

pepper:
Randle and RJ have some soul searchin’ to do over the break and so does Thibs…he is not beyone reproach on some of his decision making downt the stretch (albeit his options are thin) and inability to answer McMillan…lotta work to do this summer…

As for Julius, he took a big leap this year. Who’s to say he can’t learn from this experience and take another one? It’s at least possible, and after the season he and the team had, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Wasn’t this Randle’s 1st postseason?

He deserves the opportunity to learn from this experience. KFTV said it best: he needs 2 guys that are better than him on the team for them to ascend to true contention. They just weren’t talented enough.

That said: he’s only gonna get one offseason of grace for this poor performance: the Knicks ain’t the Yankees in terms of postseason expectations, but this is still New York. He can’t shit the bed next year if the team returns to the playoffs (although I feel part of that will hinge on how he’s utilized a year from now).

The Infamous Cdiggy: Wasn’t this Randle’s 1st postseason?

He deserves the opportunity to learn from this experience. KFTV said it best: he needs 2 guys that are better than him on the team for them to ascend to true contention. They just weren’t talented enough.

It is his first postseason and one bad 5 game stretch, even in the playoffs, isn’t enough reason to totally bury him. But, he’s 26 years old and I’m hardpressed to think of another player who has played as bad as him in any postseason. Randle shot 29% from the field and had more turnovers than assists. Hell, he had nearly as many turnovers as made shots (23 TO to 28 made FG). It’s as bad of a performance as I can think of. The only other player I can think of who comes close is Tony Parker in his 2nd playoff appearance. But Parker was only 20 years old and still wasn’t as bad as Randle in this series.

I’m glad we don’t have to make a decision this year on re-signing him (I’m assuming we’re picking up his option). Barring injury, I would expect to be in the playoffs again next year and having another season of data plus more playoff games will help with deciding what to do with him.

Alan:
As we’re on to the offseason, time for another mock draft, this one courtesy of Kevin O’Connor at The Ringer, who has us taking Sharife Cooper at 19 and James Bouknight at 21. No second round mock from him this time.

I don’t follow college ball much in general and I really didn’t at all this year but man it would be a tough pill to swallow if we drafted two more guards who can’t fucking shoot.

Well, that was a letdown. I really thought we could win at least one round but nevertheless, this was such a fun season. So many great wins and I can’t really be mad at the way it ended because it does feel like this will be the start of us being competitive and respectable and making the playoffs and honestly, as a fan that is really all you can ask for.

A few thoughts….

I think Randle had a bad stretch of games but I still think he is worth the long term investment. But maybe we hold off on that till next off season.

Not having Mitch really hurt us. We knew going in we’d have no answer for Trae but Capella abused us all series. IF we were fully healthy, I think we would have actually had the slight advantage at that position but with no Mitch and Noel a little hurt, we were outmanned and outmuscled all series. Taj is a warrior and I want him back next year on the vet minimum but he was brought on mid season to be the 3rd string back up and ended up starting. Not good.

I think RJ quietly had an ok series. No big breakout game but he competed hard all series, his shots started falling, he attacked the basket and he defended pretty well. I’m really happy we have him on our team. If he makes a similar jump next year…watch out.

Burks or Bullocks. If we have to keep one and let the other go…I don’t know. I think I lean towards keeping Bullocks because he is the better defender and better 3 point shooter. I think we can find someone to play that Burks role well but would be nice if we could keep both.

PG. We gotta do something there. I don’t know what the answer is though. Signing old Lowry or Conley isn’t super appealing to me. And Ball has his flaws for sure. I just don’t know.

To me as we start to take stock of this season and series and move forward into offseason mode, the most central questions are about what to make of Randle now. There’s lots of things to be said about the coach, the front office, the nice collection of young players taking solid steps forward and veterans contributing more than we ever thought they could, but ultimately the NBA is a star player’s league. I came into the season thinking Randle was flotsam and leave it feeling confused. You never want to overreact to five games, but when the whole season felt like a fairy tale and then you watch the carriage turn back into a pumpkin right before your eyes, it’s not easy to convince yourself it’s going to be a carriage again when you wake up in the morning.

If you’ve got a 26 year old who you think is one of the 15-20 best players in the league (and maybe capable of still more improvement) it makes sense to be looking at big additions to try to maximize the next 3-4 years of his prime. On the other hand outside of Randle there isn’t any real reason to be looking to move fast towards contention here – we saw pretty clearly that the prevailing level of talent on the roster just isn’t where it needs to be yet and the rest of the young core is at least a couple years behind Randle. So it’s not just a question of what to do with Randle himself, but also a question that defines the logical next steps for this group.

I’m a hard pass on Bullock, a maybe on Burks if the price is right, and probably a no on Noel. Noel has the worst hands I think I’ve ever seen. I exercise Randle’s option and see more; I obviously don’t pay him after this physical and psychological disaster. I definitely make him available in the right trade. He can’t be built around with this role, obviously.

As to Trae Young, I’m exactly where I was after Game 2. He’s a terrific player, and I’d take him on my team any day. He made Reggie Bullock look absolutely silly.

Brian Cronin:
I like that Luka’s interview opened with him tearing himself apart for playing an overall poor fourth quarter.

Me too.

I hope that means he’s at least aware that they aren’t going to go very far if the entire offense is him dribbling the ball until he creates a tough shot for himself or is absolutely forced to pass. They need to move the ball and run plays to create easy shots for everyone (whatever their individual skills may be)

Randle’s major problem is basketball IQ.

Granted, they were loading up on him trying to take everything he does well away from him. They did a very good job of it too. But it’s like I’ve been saying all along. He’s not a true #1 option that has so many tricks up his sleeve it’s tough for the defense to stop him even if they focus on him. He can be stopped. The problem is he doesn’t understand when to pass quickly, when to drive, when to try to draw the double team, when to pass as the double comes etc.. So instead of using the fact that they are keying on him as as advantage, he drives into double teams, gets stripped, jumps in the air with no one to pass to, takes horrible shots etc.. It’s incredibly frustrating and ugly to watch. Against a high level defense he gets exposed as a low basketball IQ bad #1 option.

None of that is trashing him. You are what you are. He should try to get better. But right now he’s more of a #2 or maybe even a great #3 option. In a more limited role without teams keying on him, he’d be very effective and efficient. We have to find a #1 scorer so he’s in an appropriate role for his skills.

Deeefense: Randle’s major problem is basketball IQ.

I don’t think that it’s basketball IQ I just think he isn’t a playmaker. If Randle is the primary playmaker on your team there’s probably a hard cap on how good your team can be. He did average a good amount of assists but that really had more to do with running the offense completely through him as opposed to any sort of elite playmaking on his part. Even Stackhouse in that year in Detroit where he dominated the ball and led the league in scoring average 5.1 assists. They even had similar AST%: 25.8% for Stack and 27.2% for Randle. Actually, all of their numbers are shockingly similar and both Stack and Randle were 26 for these seasons. Don’t look at Stackhouse’s numbers that year compared to Randle’s, it’s actually kind of upsetting and I regret doing it.

Disappointed for losing the series, but it has been a great year. Atlanta is very talented, Trae Young, Bogdanovic and Capela are really good basketball players, and I have been really surprised by John Collins, who I though was bad on D and actually played very well.

We have been riding Randle all season long, with RJ emergence and overachieving veterans. That was going to prove too thin in the playoffs, when opposing teams shorten their rotations, as we cannot do the same. Having a healthy Mitch, and an actually healthy Noel would have helped too.

We have a bright future, but we have to be reallistic to make the most of our opportunities:
1) Randle may regress a little next year.
2) Our veterans may regress a lot next year.
3) RJ’s career path is still on the Richard Jefferson / Rudy Gay path, and not the Tracy McGrady / Bradley Beal path.

I would offer the max extension to Randle, if he regresses, he will not outperform the contract, but I don’t think he would underperform either (he might bet on himself, though). I would try to resign Noel (8-10 millions AAV), offer Rose/Burks/Bullock the same 1yr deals they had and let everyone else go (well, sign Ntilikina to a minimum deal, he is good for debating in this blog). We should not get too attached to our veterans, they are good for the team at a low salary, not at 10 million. I would target PGs aggresively with our draft picks and make a big offer to Lonzo Ball (and I’m also counting with Vildoza). I would hold onto the rest of the cap and assets waiting for a possible future trade.

Comparing Trae to Reggie Miller is just silliness. Reggie Miller pushed Greg Anthony to the ground while scoring 8 points in 9 seconds to steal a game, tearing the heart out of our collective chest and eating it lustily on the Garden floor.

It’s funny tho – I’ve come to appreciate that time so much since. We beat the Pacers as much as they beat us and hating Reggie was fun as hell. If Trae and the Hawks were that for us over the next 4-8 years? Sign me up. Villains are fun. I’d rather play against – and beat – guys like Trae than some of the no-pulse zombies out there in the league.

And yeah, I like Trae. He’s a little fucker and is easy to hate, but that dude can play. Any playoff series with him in it is going to be more interesting. They have a chance against the crippled Sixers for sure.

Hawks were just better under pressure up and down their rotation. We didn’t adjust, our defense wasn’t that good, we couldn’t get the 3-ball falling, our “best two players” were poor, Noel’s ankle definitely affected our rim protection, Thibs didn’t play IQ enough or find a way to stretch Capela. We got our butts kicked. Hope the front office makes good decisions in the off-season, because it’s a big one.

Funny how we’re talking about rotations and imagination for a team that stumbled and bumbled its way to a 4th seed. At some point it becomes silly.

I agree that Thibs is not an offensive mastermind, but who fucking cares? Not a single other coach would have had us in a position to play what looked like the most vulnerable of the top-4 EC teams with home court advantage. We do not have a good roster, never did. Every guy in our starting lineup other than Randle would be at best a backup on a good team, and some of our rotation players would never get off the bench.

As it turns out, I wouldn’t bet against the Hawks making it to the conference finals. They have a very solid team on both sides of the ball. If the Sixers blow them out, I’ll happily retract, but I expect that to be an extremely competitive series.

The fact that nothing really worked for us on offense was entirely predictable. Anyone who thinks that Mike D’Antoni would have coached our shitty roster to more wins against Atlanta is insane. And D’Antoni is a very good coach, certainly in the class of Thibs.

There is no imagination ever imagined that would have come up with better answers vs. this Hawks team. They are miles better than us. It was child’s play to come up with a game plan to beat us, and any servicable NBA coach would have done it. Thibs didn’t have a chance. Just the PG situation by itself was so lopsided that no other outcome was possible. But if you switched Derrick Rose with Trae Young, I still don’t know if we are better than the Hawks. Capela is a stud. Bogdo is lethal from 3 both catching and shooting and can score in the paint. Huerter is Bogdo lite. Hunter is probably better than RJ and possibly by a wide margin. Collins is very underrated here. Gallo and Lou are professional scorers. Okongwu is just getting his feet wet. They built a very nice team over there.

Z-man: I agree that Thibs is not an offensive mastermind, but who fucking cares?

Knicks fans?

There is no imagination ever imagined that would have come up with better answers vs. this Hawks team.

Bullshit. When all is said and done, he played Derrick Rose major minutes when he couldn’t run, and played Taj Gibson 33 minutes. He needs to improve as a coach, and we have to now worry that the players will start tuning him and his elbow grease demands out more next year. There are and always have been serious questions about the shelf life of all of this.

Fun playoff run, enjoyed it, not going to sugar coat how bad they and he performed in the playoffs. Lots of tough decisions for the FO and it’s tough when the playoffs were so completely different than the regular season.

Alan:
As we’re on to the offseason, time for another mock draft, this one courtesy of Kevin O’Connor at The Ringer, who has us taking Sharife Cooper at 19 and James Bouknight at 21. No second round mock from him this time.

I’d take Springer instead of Cooper. Bouknight is a good call.

Derrick Rose alluded to the possibility that we are looking to add some major talent and that he doesn’t know if they’ll want him to come back. I wonder if he knows something.

Frank: I guess it’s still early in draft coverage but the spread between sites is just huge. For instance, Charles Bassey is 26th on ESPN and 58th on tankathon…

But ESPN has Queta 75th and Tankathon has him 27th, so clearly Tankathon is much better at spotting talent. 😛
Just kiddin, you’re right that the mocks are all over the place, and btw i like both players. Would like to have one of this two as our 3rd stringer C, or in a 2-way contract to let Taj keep the 3rd stringer spot.

Unreason: I agree that we should target PGs aggressively. My understanding is that Vildoza doesn’t always start and typically only plays about half the game in a much less competitive league. Counting on much from him seems very risky. I’m not sure Lonzo would be worth the likely price.

Yes, I meant that I don’t mind to have 4 or 5 PGs in addition to Quickley (which I consider a SG), even if it means some of those do not play or go to the G-League.

I hope that means he’s at least aware that they aren’t going to go very far if the entire offense is him dribbling the ball until he creates a tough shot for himself or is absolutely forced to pass. They need to move the ball and run plays to create easy shots for everyone (whatever their individual skills may be)

We are talking about a 22 year-old on the verge of basically single-handedly (he’s not receiving any help from his team’s most handsomely compensated player, that’s for damn sure) eliminating one of the odds-on favorites with his shoulder falling off.

This is downright pathological with you, dude.

Re: to trade Obi or keep him…

Let’s start by saying he improved his stock greatly. I think for the first time we can all see the shape of the player he might become, and finally it is enticing.

But I think that decision is secondary to the Randle decision. If you think Randle is one of your foundational pieces and you sign him to an extension this summer, then I think you package Obi (who, IMO, would have very good value on the trade market) with some picks to get someone equal to or better than Randle. Then, ideally, you complete the team via free agency.

If you don’t sign Randle this summer, I think you keep Obi as a hedge in case Randle either regresses or wants a $230mm contract. (We can be grateful to Randle and forgiving of his performance as much as we want, but after this I’d rather trade him and pivot to the young guys than give him that $230mm max.)

I’m pretty sure we will offer the max extension to randle…. and it’ll be interesting to see if he does accept it… if i were him i probably would take it since there’s a lot more downside for him than upside….. for the knicks i think we’re ok with either outcome… if he accepts we get randle at a somewhat reasonable price…. if he rejects we have him on a prove it year where we still can offer him more money than anyone else and give him that max he’s seeking if he’s deserving…. otherwise we could just let him go if the price moves into undeserving territory…

We do basically have a ‘free’ slot to sign someone before we jam the randle/rj/mitch extensions into the cap…. so i’m pretty sure we aren’t shopping at ikea this summer and probably make at least one big shiny splash…. unfortunately the options are mostly flawed but ok pieces…

Norm powell seems to be talked up a lot given the thibs rumors but i’m not sure if he’ll cut it as he’s basically a bullock+burks replacement who costs more than them combined… lonzo ball is interesting altho i like him better as a sg than a pg… but he will also likely need something packaged to nab him…. cam payne probably is the most intriguing target altho it’s unknown if we’re willing to bet on the only 1000+ minute season he’s had… lowry and cp3 will also be talked up probably….

Unless something drastic happens this offseason we will probably have some room in 2022 to go after that A/B+ tier guy… i think zach lavine is going to be an interesting subplot since the bulls may look to eject if they start off poorly again with his free agency looming… bradley beal is also probably going to be talked about but i’m very iffy on him… and then we’ll see what comes out of these playoffs if anyone else gets disgruntled and shakes loose….

Yes, an unexpected good season that made us happy after years of frustration and took us back to the playoffs.

Yes, we’re happy and in a better position in a long, time with draft picks and cap space and a couple of building blocks (probably).

Yes, this team was easy too love and root for, the coaching staff squeezed every drop from the players limited talent and many players showed good progress.

But.

Five games in the playoffs, where the code-word is “adjusting”.
The New York Knicks didn’t adjust a lick.
We played exactly the same way in game-5 as we played in game-1.

We can distribute responsabilities as we like, based on our proclivities, coach, staff, players, but the inability to adjust, or at least try to, was maddening (except for putting a stop the The Plague’s Farce).

The longer the series went, the bigger the difference in the games between us and the very talented Hawks became bigger, game-3 to game-5 were non-competitive.

Now all the league knows how to stop us.
We have a summer to try something new, to differentiate our offense so that we can find different ways to attack and choose the right players.

It will be a long and eventful summer.

I might be more pessimistic than others, but I can see extending Randle for 4 years this summer really backfiring on us. Maybe that two year extension that gets him to free agency at age 29 is the best way to go.

DudesTown:
Trade Obi or keep him?

Keep him, playing him more,
extend Randle to the mini-max or something a bit lower (that is low enough to be movable if needed) and see what happens.

We need two starters, one a PG, and with a good one probably every other player efficiency will go up naturally.

thenoblefacehumper: It can be the case that Thibs did an outstanding overall job during this year, no coach in history could’ve gotten us past the Hawks, and yet he still demonstrated some troubling tendencies during both the regular season and the playoffs that shouldn’t be off limits when it comes to discussion.

People openly discuss the flaws of even the absolute best players and coaches all the time. Determining whether or not Thibs is our best long-term option is important. It doesn’t make any more sense to shut down all discussion of his possible shortcomings than it would to do the same for Randle, who also had a stellar overall 2020-2021.

Personally, I thought it was insane to not go to the small lineup down the stretch last night with our season slipping away. It would NOT have been a panacea, but it was incredibly obvious to me from the stands that “doing all of the same things that got us down 3-1 in the series and down 10 in game 5” was not going to bring us back. It was a microcosm of a larger issue with rigidity and a relative lack of creativity.

I am not saying these issues are disqualifying or that they can’t possibly be fixed (I will say I am skeptical a 63 year-old coach will make drastic changes to his general tendencies), but again, I don’t see what we gain by pretending they don’t exist.

This is all fair, but what coach in the same circumstances wouldn’t have revealed “troubling issues” about something when working with a fatally flawed roster?

Thibs is a second-tier COTY-level coach, on the level with other “flawed” coaches veteran like D’Antoni, Budz, Carlisle, etc. Any of those coaches can have playoff success with the right players, and will fail with the wrong players. What I bristle about is the “he can never be successful in the playoffs” narrative. It’s total bullshit, certainly no more true than it would be about virtually any other coach in that class, and if someone else were coaching this roster, I’m sure we’d be debating their decision-making as well. I just think its crazy to put a lid on what Thibs can accomplish based on either his history as a coach or what he did with this team this year.

The Honorable Cock Jowles:

Also, it is officially the offseason. We can talk about offseason things now, but also we can talk about the very good basketball being played for the next 6 weeks or so.

You’re right Jowles.

I’m expecting great basketball from MILW-BRK,
with the two LA teams on the brink of elimination the West can be as open as ever
and I’m curious to watch ATL against PHI, Embiid’s injury is a pity but I’d like to see Young (that yesterday, despite all his showboating, shot 10-28) versus a defense that in theory can contain him.

I’m actually excited to watch Trae Young in this next round and enjoy him. The Hawks are a team I think I’d like when they’re not kicking our ass. Embiid would have fucked Capela up but if he’s hobbled, that’s a real series. Thybulle seems like another guy Young could potentially hide on, but I don’t know him very well.

You wouldn’t say that if you understood basketball

here we go.

Hubert:
Re: Thibs, I think after game 2 it was fair to be very critical of the coach. The Payton shit should have been resolved before Game 1. We didn’t have a plan for Trae Young until the 2nd half of game 2. And we had zero offensive adjustments to the Hawks defense. With better coaching, I think it’s fair to say we would have been up 2-0 in the series.

But the two games in Atlanta made it clear that no coach could bridge the gap between the two teams. Atlanta’s superiority became evident, and even if we had been up 2-0 we’d just be down 3-2 right now heading to Atlanta for a Dead Man Walking game.

Thibs was not the reason we lost. But Thibs is also one of several Knicks who performed poorly during the postseason.

There’s no sense in going back and forth on this, other than to point out that you were pretty vehement in insisting that the rosters were equal going in to the series. And that “answer” we had for Trae Young was to put Bullock on him, you know, the guy who was benched in the 4th quarter in game 1 and who you wanted to bench in game 5.

I am far more amenable to critiques of his coaching when it comes from a critic who knows what he’s talking about. With you I get “bench Bullock!” and then “well, I said watch him prove me wrong, so I was right!” Let me clue you in: there wouldn’t have been a game 1 or game 2 vs. ATL if virtually any other coach in the league was coaching this team. At best, we’d be having a post mortem about how we got swept by PHI, BKN or MIL, or why we lost to WAS as the 10 seed in the play-in tournament. My sense is the reason we didn’t go up 2-0 is a lucky ricochet cost us game 1, but if we had won that game, maybe ATL turns up the heat in game 2 and beats us. If you want to self-flaggelate about how Hubert’s ideas would have gotten us to 2-4, go right on ahead.

I really don’t blame Thibs for Payton. I blame the FO for bringing him back and then not getting a PG at the deadline. Rose was great but he’s not a starter. We won game 2 with Rose not starting and I wonder if going away from Payton was the right move. He sucks but there were no better options and no, Frank wasn’t really an option either.

Games 3, 4, and 5 we hung with them in the first half cause Rose made the starters better but I think we had the advantage with the bench and Rose and IQ had good chemistry. It just felt like the bench wasn’t as strong in games 3,4, and 5 with Rose not a part of it. During the win streak we often fell behind early only to put teams away with the bench. Maybe we should have stuck with that?

We gotta address PG in the off season. Maybe Villadoza is that guy? Really wish we could have gotten a look at him before the playoffs started.

You’re right, Strat. And I might even go to a Nets game to root for the Bucks. Tickets are definitely available.

You wouldn’t say that if you understood basketball, but that would require you stop looking at boxscore stats and try to understand what’s going on and what wins basketball games.

Hahahahahahahaha peak Strat. Maybe the Mavs oughta trade Luka for a real winner like Frank Ntilikina.

In all seriousness, Luka basically has to play the way he does because the guy the Mavs thought would be a second high-usage option and relieve some pressure on him has turned out to be a total dud and is widely, and correctly, viewed as one of the most negative assets out there. This is obvious to everyone and has fuck all to do with box score stats.

But hey, maybe if you keep firing off laughably bad Luka takes Porzingis will somehow get better!

JK47: Right, to really understand basketball you have to be able to recite pointless bromides like “move the ball” and “win trades” and “horse racing”

Brilliant response.

The thing is I am correct.

I’ve seen every great player and team from Russell and Chamberlain forward. There are loads of paths to God, but all the great teams do the same basic things even if they run different plays, use different systems, and have great players at different positions. The way Doncic played last night (and often plays) is not one of those paths.

If you watched Dallas last night you should understand why Doncic scored and assisted so much, why his teammates didn’t, and that they won despite Doncic playing foolishly and not because he was so good. Doncic is such an extraordinary talent he often overcomes his own foolishness and a game plan that is basically spread the floor and allow Doncic to stat stuff us to victory if he can. lmao It won’t work. He’s got to learn that if he wants to be a truly great player and not just have great boxscore stats he’s got to do less some of the time and use his extraordinary ability when necessary and not as the first option. If Trae could learn that in the middle of a season, so can Doncic (I think).

djphan, you’ve seen Ayo more than me. Do you think he’s capable, as a rookie, to step into the Elf Payton role? If we kept Rose as the backup playing 28-30 minutes, it would be less pressure than you would normally expect of a rookie starting PG.

thenoblefacehumper: Hahahahahahahaha peak Strat. Maybe the Mavs oughta trade Luka for a real winner like Frank Ntilikina.

In all seriousness, Luka basically has to play the way he does because the guy the Mavs thought would be a second high-usage option and relieve some pressure on him has turned out to be a total dud and is widely, and correctly, viewed as one of the most negative assets out there. This is obvious to everyone and has fuck all to do with box score stats.

But hey, maybe if you keep firing off laughably bad Luka takes Porzingis will somehow get better!

Do you understand that the game plan was to start Boban and Porzingis together to prevent George and Leonard from getting to the basket as much as they did last game when they went small and dragged KP away from the basket or put him in a tough spot on a switch?

If you understand that (which you probably didn’t even know) you should also understand that on offense the adjustment was to mostly stick KP in the corner to create the space they would need for Doncic with Boban and KP on the court. They took KP out of his usual role on offense. He barely touched the ball.

All that said, KP had his best season ever on offense despite the horrendous start I predicted off the no work and no camp summer. The issue is that he’s lost a step on defense and no one knows whether that’s permanent or will be corrected with an off season of work and full camp. It’s a reasonable question.

So is whether Robinson can stay healthy enough to reach his potential and whether Anthony Davis is too injury prone to be counted on in the playoffs. Unlike those guys, KP is still on the court.

2021’s FA class looks shaky. I didn’t want it at the time but a Joe Harris/Bogdan-type of signing would have done wonders for us. I’m not even sure what to do with this batch of aging PGs but it would be really nice to have another player or two who could stroke it from 3. I wonder how much more it would have helped in this series.

A four-year extension for Randle doesn’t make sense unless the last year is non-guaranteed. Even that seems risky – I don’t see how he will play *better* than he did this year as he gets older and the Thibs’ minute-load will catch up to him, as it always does.

Thibs is much more of a floor-raiser than a ceiling-raiser. That’s extremely valuable for a franchise that hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade, but we need to be realistic. What’s the best playoff series he’s ever won? Would he be open to bringing on an assistant coach for offense?

Z-Man, I’m going to have to disagree with you on the Thibs point. He gets all the credit in the world for getting the Knicks to way overachieve and become a 4th seed with home court, just like Randle gets all the credit in the world for morphing into a borderline All-NBA star during the regular season and driving the team’s success. And both of them get some criticism for shitting the bed during the playoffs.

I agree that Atlanta is a better team, everything would have had to go perfectly for us to beat them. Part of the struggle is that in the second half of the season, it felt like having everything go right was status quo. Somebody always got hot in the 4th, the defensive intensity went up a notch, and we’d pull games out. So it was a bit of cognitive dissonance to suddenly fail as badly as we did.

Thibs is a very good coach. He didn’t coach this series very well. If he had, we’d probably still lose, but maybe 4-2 or even 4-3. Which would have been more fun. C’est la vie. Here’s hoping that both he and Julius recognize the need to improve on a few things.

One thing that makes me nervous — was the Hawks’ effective system to shut Julius down something that the rest of the NBA will copy next year (a la the end of Linsanity)? Another important reason to find a real point guard and change up the play-calling to help get Julius different/better looks…

If you understand that (which you probably didn’t even know) you should also understand that on offense the adjustment was to mostly stick KP in the corner to create the space they would need for Doncic with Boban and KP on the court. They took KP out of his usual role on offense. He barely touched the ball.

Oh, believe me, I’m well aware the Mavs have determined the best role for their $31M man in the playoffs is “Steve Novak circa 2011.” What I’m not aware of is an argument that this actually bodes well for Porzingis.

Yeah, strat, but this is not MJ needing to learn to trust Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and John Paxson. Luka’s playing with stiffs.

He’s not going to concede this obvious point because it would require him to accept the fact that one of Luka’s teammates in particular is in fact a stiff.

One thing that makes me nervous — was the Hawks’ effective system to shut Julius down something that the rest of the NBA will copy next year (a la the end of Linsanity)?

I thought the same thing, Raven. I countered it myself with “most teams don’t have a Capela” and “that’s kinda how they played him most of this year, isn’t it?” I don’t think the Hawks did anything new. They just did it relentlessly and effectively.

Either way, I’m nervous about committing to him long term until we find out.

If you watched Dallas last night you should understand why Doncic scored and assisted so much, why his teammates didn’t, and that they won despite Doncic playing foolishly and not because he was so good. Doncic is such an extraordinary talent he often overcomes his own foolishness and a game plan that is basically spread the floor and allow Doncic to stat stuff us to victory if he can.

This isn’t quite peak strat but it’s close. When they’re in the Conference Finals, I look forward to the “yeah, but” posts. They will be plentiful.

Raven:
…
Thibs is a very good coach. He didn’t coach this series very well. If he had, we’d probably still lose, but maybe 4-2 or even 4-3. Which would have been more fun. C’est la vie. Here’s hoping that both he and Julius recognize the need to improve on a few things.

One thing that makes me nervous — was the Hawks’ effective system to shut Julius down something that the rest of the NBA will copy next year (a la the end of Linsanity)? Another important reason to find a real point guard and change up the play-calling to help get Julius different/better looks…

Like you said, it’s fine to criticize Thibs some if for no other reason than the team lost the series, and losing coaches are always gonna be 2nd-guessed in what they did or didn’t do. I can’t say though that means Thibs coached poorly or bad – this team just wasn’t built to mitigate poor play from Randle offensively over longer stretches. That’s the bottom line for me.

It’s fine to question or ask for more offensive creativity. Thibs needs to look for certain situations to create easier offense for his guys (i.e. ATOs). I just believe some folks are overestimating the overall offensive potential of the team at this juncture.

It’s fine to question or ask for more offensive creativity.

let’s not act like it was only the offensive side that fell apart. The Hawks scored 116 pts per 100 possessions in Atlanta while shooting 47% on – mostly open – three pointers. They figured us out pretty easily.

Hubert: let’s not act like it was only the offensive side that fell apart. The Hawks scored 116 pts per 100 possessions in Atlanta while shooting 47% on – mostly open – three pointers.

That’s fine. I mean we did rely on the ISM for much of the season for our 3pt D. And they were better shooters than us. That said, I really believe we lost the series moreso on the offensive side of the ball.

for the series as a whole, a strong argument can be made that our defense performed as expected but our offense performed much worse than expected.

i am less optimistic about the state of the franchise than the average poster here. but i still agree that we’re in a vastly superior position to recent history, so that’s something.

Yeah I think our defense was pretty solid all series. Its not like Atlanta lit it up.

They scored 107, 92, 105, 113, 103 in their 5 games.

We only broke 100 in the first 2 games.

Atlanta averaged 113.7 per game in the regular season. They only reached that once in the series. So we played fine defensively.

Is that 4 year extension at that price what a #2 option on a contender make? If so, then I think its worth extending him. He showed us he can’t be the number #1 option on a contender but I think he absolutely is a #2 option. If RJ is the #3 then we just gotta find the one! And RJ himself could improve to also be a #2 level option.

Hubert: I think you’re right. But now comes the big question for you, CDiggy: are you willing to bet a 4 year mini max extension that he can do better?

$29.5mm through 2026 might not be a very team-friendly deal. First you’re taking a risk that he doesn’t regress in the regular season. Then you’re making a bet that he will solve something he seemed totally incapable of solving.

And this was just the Hawks! Imagine if we was playing Harden and Durant.

Oooooo I’ve been put on the hot seat!!!

Okay here it goes: I’ve said in the past that next season would be where the team would have to make its big decisions. When it comes to Randall, I would like to say, “hey, love what you did this regular season – now show me you can do it again in ’21-’22”. Right now, I’d:
A. Fully guarantee his full 2021-22 salary. He’s earned it.
B. Propose this third option for a short term extension.

I would not offer a 4-year extension just yet: I want to see the team remain as fluid as possible with players that are not (or not yet) franchise-level talent. I want to buy as much time as possible to improve the talent base and to reposition Randall’s use on offense closer to the basket. I need to go into preseason next October seeing whether Barrett makes the 3rd year leap (which I’ll argue is maybe even more important than navigating Jules’ contract situation), and what improvements IQ and Obi bring to training camp.

Randall needs to solve things. But not on his own, particularly if RJ and IQ take big steps forward and we bring in a legit starting PG.