From Peter Botte:
Julius Randle was in no mood to stick around and talk after the Knicks’ second crushing loss to Philadelphia in less than one week.
The All-Star forward forced overtime with a 3-pointer near the end of regulation, but he was called for what he thought was a “blown call” and a “f—ing ridiculous” loose-ball foul away from the play — leading to go-ahead free throws by Tobias Harris in the closing seconds.
Randle also missed an 18-foot jumper as time expired for an awful 101-100 loss to the Sixers at the Garden, and he stormed away from the podium after answering one question in his postgame Zoom call.
“Blown call by the officials. Not enough contact for them to call the play,” Randle said. “I don’t know who it was — Nerlens [Noel] — but clearly he had possession [of the ball].
“After all the fouling and everything that was going on, for them to call that and decide the game is f—ing ridiculous. They have to do a better job. It’s too many games like this.”
The game was played with two referees because Dannica Mosher was not available due to the league’s health and safety protocols, and both teams complained throughout about the officiating, with both Randle and Thibodeau earning technical fouls earlier in the game.
Randle also had been furious with the officials after he had been called for a travel in the closing seconds of another one-possession loss last Monday in Brooklyn. The NBA ruled the following day that the call was correct.
Isn’t that an odd game recap headline by the Post? It seems more like a side feature and not the recap. Maybe there’s another recap out there that I missed, but I don’t believe so. Odd.
Anyways, it was a thrilling game. A tough loss, but honestly, the Knicks were lucky as fuck to even get to overtime, so I can’t get too upset at them having a tough break there at the end. Thibs was in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation there at the end, as it was such a close call that you gotta take the timeout to preserve the challenge, but obviously they all then saw the replay and knew that there was no way that they would overturn it, as Randle clearly did shove Harris (“They should have let it go!” is something we can all say, but it’s really not much of an argument for an actual NBA player to use). So they at least got to use the timeout to hopefully spook Harris, as Harris did choke on his free throws at the end of the 4th quarter, but I bet Thibs would have loved to have had that timeout back to advance the ball to midcourt and run a legit out of timeout play. But he had to take the timeout to check for the challenge. It was definitely the right call. It just sucked.
Boy, Harris had about as bad of a last couple of seconds of regulation as you possibly could have, letting the game get to overtime on the missed free throws, the Randle circus shot while he was defending him (Randle shoved off there, too, which is why it’s especially weird to be all, “They should have let it go!” when they did let it go earlier) and then losing the ball on the in-bounds play and almost losing the game right there. Crazy stuff.
Anyhow, it was a disappointing loss, but it was still a hard-fought game. Overtime games with Thibs, though, man…hoo boy. Especially as Quickley and Obi were both basically benched at the end of the game and Mitch was hurt. Why do some of these guys have roster spots if they will never, ever ever play? The Knicks just need to get Mitch’s ankle healthy and then sweep these two Wizards games to get back over .500 and with the rest of the Eastern Conference lower class losing games like crazy, they should be fine in the end, and might be in shape to miss the play-in games entirely, especially with LaMelo Ball’s season prematurely over (as an aside, I was just thinking of how fucked up it is that the #7 seed is involved in the play-in games. I know it gives them two-three games instead of one-two games, but it’s really unfair. The idea of the #9 playing the #10 and then the winner playing the #8 seed is a lot more fair).
172 replies on “NY Post: Julius Randle furious with refs after crushing Knicks loss: ‘F–king ridiculous’”
It was a great game although unfortunately that last FG didn’t went in. Agree with you, Brian, it’d be more fair to only jeopardize the 8th place on the play-in.
So, will the deals only strike in the last day, or will the movements start today?
Will the Knicks try to go for a big fish (i hope not) or only small upgrades (like the DRose trade)?
I think we need to upgrade Payton… and had my eyes on Devonte Graham on the cheap, but the LaMelo injury ruined it so now i don’t have any good ideas for this. Bullock is playing a lot better, i wouldn’t address that position now, so the other hole we have is backup PF… McDermott seems to be available, if it’s for a small price i’m all for it. If not, maybe try to get Lyles from SAS?
It’s so rare these days that the Knicks make me go to bed mad, and even rarer for it to not be the Knicks’ fault. Dammit.
Marc Vermin bashing Julius in the Post
I went to bed past 5 AM, slept 3 hours and I’m still fuming…
Alan Hahn had it right, once whistled there’s no way they could reverse the call because Randle did push Harris, that’s a foul by the letter of the law…
But I can understand (and I share) Randle’s frustration.
When you allowed the game to become a 90’s NY-MIA showdown and for close to 53 minutes let the painted area trasform into a “tonnara” (*) you can’t decide a game with a call like that.
By the way, we defended very well, they defended very well, with few exceptions we didn’t shoot well and we’re missing too many FTs.
We need to stay focused because sweeping the Wizards at home is a MUST.
(*) The area, bounded by nets, when fishermen perform the “mattanza” (Cyber would say “almadrava”) of tunas.
What an a-hole, every single star player in the NBA would have the same reaction as Randle. Vermin can go eat a bag of dicks.
Randle’s push on Harris led to Harris then fouling Noel, who stumbled out of bounds with the ball.
Something had to be called at that point. While the push on Harris wasn’t egregious, the result of the action likely led to the whistle.
Just rewatched the sequence, they whistled before Noel’s stumbling out of bounds.
“Just rewatched the sequence, they whistled before Noel’s stumbling out of bounds.”
Yes, the whistle blew after Harris made contact with Noel.
They don’t have to call anything. Anything goes in the last 10 seconds of an NBA game. No one on the Sixers would have complained if there was no call.
Remember those Garnett illegal screens at the end of games where he’d send the defender flying with a hip check? Never got called once.
It was a frustrating loss. Rather than nitpick a few calls I’ll point out bigger issues.
1. With Obi and Knox virtually unplayable, this team is not deep enough. We are going to wear down and lose some close game late simply because our key guys are tired. Other than at C when healthy, we have a problem.
2. I never thought I’d say this, but we really miss Payton and Rose. We have no PG. That’s a major problem. Eventually we have to upgrade the starting PG position. We know that, But right now not having any PG is a big problem.
3. Quickly is NOT a PG. After the first few games I thought I saw some PG skills and was optimistic he would be OK in that role, but I was either premature or probably just wrong. Ideally Quickley should be a scorer off the bench at this stage of his career.
4. In the last few games I’m seeing glimpses of Randle trying to do much again like last year. Some of it is probably that we have no PG, but it’s something to watch.
This is the kind of thing that’s part of the game that could help the Knicks get into the playoffs.
I have to give Derrick Rose a lot of credit: he’s gone from making me mad we gave up a 2nd round pick for him to making me desperately yearn for him to get back in the lineup.
Real bummer about LaMelo. D’angelo Russell is getting roasted on Twitter for his reaction to the consequent ROY odds.
I really don’t like this Philly team, like detest them.
But I hope we see them in the playoffs.
Wow, what a sentence.
Some good intel from the Ringer about the competition for Lonzo Ball:
So yeah, it doesn’t seem like Kevin Knox is gonna get the deal done. And it also doesn’t seem like we’re getting him as an RFA without overpaying.
I hope we see them without Joel, Curry, and, I don’t know, Korkmaz.
Scroll down to the 2nd article on the page. RJB, Melo, and Lonzo in this article about guys “quietly having terrific seasons.” The criticism of RJB in the last paragraph of the article (about guys padding college stats by feasting on weaker players) could even more ominously relate to Obi Toppin.
Gimme that series at full strength. Ben Simmons winning his first 20 or whatever games against the Knicks and then losing 4 of 7 in the playoffs would be pretty sweet.
Really weird reaction. It’s not even a great compliment to Edwards to say “well now that the vastly superior player is injured, my guy should win.” More importantly, just shitty, shitty news. Charlotte had become one of my favorite league pass teams, which is a sentence that is good for the NBA is a whole.
I was quite surprised to see Taj being the one dropped from the rotation with Mitch coming back. I know he hasn’t played PF at all this year but I thought they might go that way even if it’s a slightly awkward fit as its obvious Thibs trusts Taj and not Obi. If they’re not going to use Taj in that role I wonder if they might look for a backup PF before Thursday. Obi’s minutes have been really dwindling over the last week or so (~7 minutes a game over the last 5) and while I’m sure there’s a front office faction in favor of leaving him in the rotation no matter what it sure looks to me like Thibs wants another option. May be an interesting litmus test for who has Rose’s ear at the moment.
Russell seems….not smart?
I agree about Philly. These games have really ramped up my dislike for them. I guess when you keep losing super close games like this, it makes ya hate them a bit more. They’re freaking good but man we’ve come so close. We haven’t faced them at full strength yet either.
The list of teams in the East I’m actively hating more is growing and I think that’s a sign that we’re relevant again. Philly, Nets, Heat, Celtics, Pacers. BRING THEM ALL ON. Don’t quite hate the Bucks yet but give it time.
I continue to be impressed with how hard this team plays. Just wish we could have snagged one of these two philly games or the nets game. These wizards games are going to be a lot tougher than we think and they’re about as much win as a game can be.
Any word on Mitch? They said he sprained his ankle but there’s no indication if its bad or not. He was looking nice in the limited time back. Good to see him again. He was hopping around and it didn’t look THAT bad.
Rose is back. I do not like having him on the team, but the sad fact is that we need him right now.
Or maybe not quite back yet:
now that mitch is back let’s see what happened…
our defense with mitch healthy 107.4
our defense without mitch 110.7
i think we can say that the combo of mitch and noel makes us a very very good defensive team… which is basically what almost everyone thought but mitch by himself does have a measurable impact on our defense and that he’s not just some sort of easily replaceable piece….
the other part of this is that our record was 9-6 during that span and that was because of our offense….
our offense with healthy mitch 107.5
our offense without mitch 111.7
so what was it? mostly two things:
1) derrick rose – probably not a huge impact considering he was only in the lineup for half of the 15 games but we were 6-2 over that span with a ortg of 114.2… the big caveat here was that this was during a real soft spot in our schedule facing hou, atl, orl, min gsw, sac, ind, det… so take that for whatever you think it might mean but it doesn’t take a few brain cycles to figure out that replacing austin rivers with an able nba body has a measurable effect….
2) rj barrett – here’s rj’s #s while mitch was out:
ts% – 58.6%
ftr – .314
2p% – 49.7%
3p% – 51.2%
obviously very good numbers and besides the 3p% this could be a preview of what’s to come for next year as far as a leap is concerned…. but this is a real big net difference from what we saw rj before mitch went down… now a lot of that was bad rj from that first month also and this is also a result of some hot shooting from deep… but this new found rj with controlled and strong takes to the rim seems like the rj we are going to get for the forseeable future…
if that is the case then he’s not only rotation worthy… he should be in the discussion to be in top half of all SG/SFs in the entire league… and along with derrick rose and adding back mitch it should be enough to add on an extra win or 3 and catapult our offense towards league avg..
We lost to a very good and very well-coached team that played the best damn defense I’ve seen all year outside of our own Knicks, and we lost it by one point on a questionable next-to-last play, even while shooting like crap from the field and the free-throw line.
That was impressively gritty. Frustrating, but impressive.
RIP, Elgin Baylor. To think that he could have finally won a title with that 72 Lakers team, but didn’t want to get a ring as a hanger-on, and retired rather than play below the standard he’d set for himself.
Not a great exec, but one hell of a player.
One of the 1st great high flyers( before Dr. J but a contemporary of Connie Hawkins) and part of the Big 3 on the Lakers that the ’69/70 Knicks defeated for that first great championship.
RIP Elgin. Hard to believe he held onto that job with LAC as long as he did.
If they give ROY to Edwards, they should change the wording on the trophy to “Rookie Who Scored the Most Points of the Year” award. Haliburton is clearly ROY with LaMelo out, and Quickley should be right behind him in the voting. If Quickley were given the green light to play as much as some of his peers, I think he’d be making a run for it, and oddly, deserve it, too.
D Rose admits to covid infection and describes impact
Elgin Baylor…you young’uns should watch this from beginning to end and you will see a lot of modern players in his game.
elf missed some of those games that mitch was gone…not having elf out there seems to improve our offense…
can we hire jeff gillooly and shane stant to visit elf in the locker room?
Better put Milton on that list too
Not even Frank could stop Shake. He was very impressive. Will he be a free agent anytime soon?
On D Rose:
Kinda weird that he flew home with the team and they weren’t all put in the protocol program.
No, he’s in the middle of a contract like Mitch’s (1.75M AAV). So he’s under contract 2 more years, one guaranteed and the other a team option. He’ll be RFA in 2022 or UFA in 2023.
Remember those stories about Kawhi driving his beat-up old car to work when he was on his rookie contract with the Spurs? All the bullshit about how the man just likes to play basketball? Well, look at that — he also likes very, very expensive things.
Good for him.
Still about last night…
My issue is more with the fawning “ball is life” sycophantic writers who try to treat the billion-dollar business as a child’s game, full of simplistic joy and wonder for even the very best. It’s a business.
what pissed me off about that was that the refs would never have called the flagrant unless Randle reacted as he did.
I hear you, but it’s a business for the writers, too – and the publicists who feed them stories…
wow, that’s a really nice home kawhi has…pretty nice to have a bed right next to work also…who doesn’t want a spare spot in la jolla, not sure that’s where he lives, but, i wouldn’t mind to…
if i could pick two spots for homes: del monte beach, monterey (ugly buildings, but real nice condo’s right along the beach), and carmel valley (hopefully something right next to garland ranch regional park)…
hopefully at some point down the road i can move back to monterey – it probably won’t be no 12,000 square feet of anything – hopefully i can squeeze my life down in to about 600 to 800 or so sq feet 🙂
yep, dreaming of getting up each day to either go walk along the beach or go feed the swans at el estero…i’ve had the chance of doing that for a time already, just wasn’t able to make it stick…
i’m like dr. soran – trying to get back to the nexus…
Make it happen, geo. You deserve it.
Kawhi, you made a fine choice.
remind me where you live in CA, Geo?
My mind has been drifting west for a while. I’m going to stay in NY a while longer bc I’m really
enjoying the way it’s being reinvented in the wake of the pandemic. NYC at 50% capacity is surreal, refreshing, and amazing. Kinda like if Thanos snapped his fingers but instead of people dying they moved to Florida. AND it was all the people you actually wanted to leave. Cool shit is happening everywhere. The basement of Bobby Van’s has turned into an underground club, people are renting out wework spaces and turning them into Studio 54. And at some point I will be super excited to see a knicks game when I can get in with my vax card instead of getting my brain scraped by a disgruntled lab assistant.
But once it gets back to “normal”, I’m out, and I think I’m heading west. I can’t do 100% capacity NYC again. Goodbye to all that.
awwww thanks dudestown, yeah, i mean, for the most part we all deserve to have some of our dreams come true…but, as william munny so eloquently put it – deserve’s got nothing to to with it…
when thinking towards the future – alanis morrisette’s song though about irony always sticks in my head…
isn’t it ironic – no, not really, especially when you’re pretty sure already that the universe is out to get you 🙂
i have relationship stuff here with ma and the kids that would make pulling up stakes at the moment, not really for the best…
hopefully god does me a solid and grants me at least a few years of beach walking and bird feeding…i’ve had a taste of that life already – it was good…
hey hubie, i’m in a little college community along I10 – i’m about 80 miles or so from the beach, with about 10 million souls in the way…it’s a pretty nice and quiet spot, mountains close by to look at…if i end up staying here, not the worse place to end up as an old person…we actually have trees here (not something to be taken for granted when you’re familiar with inland southern california), and a decent little downtown area (flashback to old Patchogue out on the island, and some of the small towns along the south shore – definitely no where as nice as some of those old towns)…last decade or so there’s been more construction of warehousing and homes unfortunately…
i have a friend whom just moved to downtown denver – he was in a beautiful spot an hour for so north of the city prior to that, but, he’s a social creature and wanted more of a connection to society…talk about irony, move to a metropolis right before a pandemic ensues…
if you don’t mind breathing the air out here – it’s nice, temperate climate and not a lot of bugs…
you seem to have a strong relationship network, no doubt wherever you end up it will include close friends…
Patchogue. Great town. That brings back some memories from my long island days. It’s very brewery-centric these days.
***hopefully at some point down the road i can move back to monterey***
I love the Monterey Peninsula so much. I, too, would love to settle there full time one day. It is the most beautiful, livable place I’ve ever been.
Maybe Donnie and Geo can start an afternoon bridge club in Carmel that only meets during Knick games, so we can enjoy our retirements together, pain free 🙂
(ps, where are you now, Redlands? Riverside?)
starting to be a lot of noise about the celts offering two firsts and a player for aaron gordon plus fournier
Makes you wonder what Randle might yield if the Knicks made him available.
Ouch. Tyrese goes off for 28 on 11-15, including 4-5 three-pointers.
Spent some time in Monterey/Big Sur this past fall and it was gorgeous, the PCH was probably the best drive I’ve done in my life. I’m east-coast based but can’t wait to go back.
Cam Reddish is available if the Knick are looking for another lotto bust.
Does anyone else here think this is reasonable for Lonzo Ball? I’d pay it to him.
I think the general consensus around here is that he’s going to get at least $20M/year. He’s still got some pretty big holes in his game but he’s young, his counting stats are pretty good, and it’s a lousy free agent class.
***Does anyone else here think this is reasonable for Lonzo Ball?***
I mean, VanVleet is a pretty good comp for him. Their stats are pretty similar. Whereas the undrafted VanVleet was part of a championship team, Ball was a #2 pick and is 3 years younger. I’d expect Ball to get at least the 4/84 deal FVV got, if not more. Maybe even 4/100 due to his restricted status.
Here are the new MVP and Rookie of the Year odds, by the way.
2021 NBA Regular Season MVP
Nikola Jokic 1/1
LeBron James 9/4
Joel Embiid 6/1
James Harden 13/2
Giannis Antetokounmpo 12/1
Luka Doncic 12/1
Damian Lillard 14/1
Stephen Curry 18/1
Kawhi Leonard 33/1
Donovan Mitchell 66/1
2021 NBA Rookie of the Year
Anthony Edwards 1/2
LaMelo Ball 5/4
Tyrese Haliburton 5/1
Immanuel Quickley 25/1
James Wiseman 50/1
You know if Mills were still here Perry would be all over that
How good are Fournier and Gordon anyway? They don’t feel like the kind of guys that take you over the top.
4×20 for Lonzo seems about right. I don’t know, I’d love to find a good point guard cheaper. But it wouldn’t be a killer.
I’d love to retire in Monterey. I’m not really an outdoorsy type but I always feel incredibly at peace when I’m in Big Sur. My favorite place on earth.
When it comes to acquiring lottery busts we have to compete with Golden State
Unlike centers, point guards are in demand and can be expensive.
I think the Raptors are done.
losing to detroit and now breaking houston’s 20 game losing streak is crazy
As a golfer, Carmel is pretty much the Mecca. I could live there. Sadly (or happily) the wife won’t budge from NYC area.
Ok so maybe the Hawks are for real.
Possible trade tidbit from Zach Lowe:
Not sure how to feel about going debacle for debacle with the Celts…
maybe some WC team will bite if we market his Utah highlights.
Just remember that life is short, my friend.
and the clock is ticking a lot louder as time goes by 🙂
yikes, riverside is like an actual city now – it’s sprawling…i’m not too far away from the old redlands bowl…great spot, that has a free concert series over the summer, take the kids every once in a while, usually gotta bribe em with soda and candy…first time i ever heard opera sang live, the bowl is inside a neighborhood – once this lady started really cutting loose with her voice – dogs started barking, it was funny, that had never happened before during any other performance…not too far away we have a small theater inside an orange tree park, kids and i go there all the time to play hide and seek and pick and eat some oranges…ones of these days i need to take them to a show there…
I swear, the Knicks do better in the standings on days they don’t play then on days that they do!
I spent a week there in 2019 but so did a giant fog. It just stayed there and never moved.
Oh totally, that’s a reasonable price tag to check if he can be our PG of the future, and if not he’ll be (very) tradable. More than that and this ideal scenario starts to get more foggy.
But bear in mind he’s not a half court floor general, for a good description of his game, there’s this Macri video:
– INTERVIEW | Mason Ginsberg of In The NO: A New Orleans Pelicans Pod
(his guest is like the Macri of the Pelicans)
Sorry, i’m not all that knowledgeable about odds. What does a 1/1 odd mean? Does it mean he already won the award? 😀
Oh man, the good ol’ days! 😀
Begley reiterates that no one in the league has the sense the Knicks are looking to make a big move at the deadline (though he acknowledges that they still could if prices unexpectedly drop), says we’ve had conversations with Orlando about Fournier, but doesn’t know how advanced they got, and says that Rivers will either be traded or cut at the deadline so the Knicks can use that roster spot for someone else, with John Henson’s name listed as a possible end of bench addition.
Man, covid must have fried Ainge’s brain… two firsts!? :O
If you can’t, or won’t, leave your area, when you retire you can come live 6 months of the year in Portugal and still be in your area the other 6 months.
My parents met a dutch couple in the Algarve doing that, and so they asked them “you guys live in the Netherlands 6 months to save money to come to this paradise the other 6 months?”, and they replied “no, we live in this paradise for 6 months and still SAVE MONEY to live the good life in the Netherlands the other 6 months”.
How cool is that? That’s the cost of living in Portugal! 🙂
Come here, guys, so i can have KB gatherings when the Knicks play. Drinks on me! 😉
I don’t get how Gordon and Fournier help the Celts. Those are offensive-minded wings and they have scoring wings in Brown and Tatum. Do they see Gordon as a stretch 4? He’s shooting 40% from 3…I dunno, he just doesn’t seem like a Celts kind of player…maybe they think they can coach him up?
I’ve heard great things about Portugal…
To clarify, it means you would get $200 back, your bet plus $100…you would double your money, which is not “useless.”
I think Gordon has always ideally been a stretch 4, and the problem is that Orlando’s dumb management keeps drafting and acquiring big men, thus forcing him to slide down to the 3.
Excellent point! I’ll just dump my incorrect comment!
100% is an excellent return… but for greedy guys like me… i want at least 3/1 ;-)…. meanwhile i’ll gladly take 5-7% in the market… something doesn’t make sense with my logic…
See, I don’t know how to take this guy’s argument seriously when Lonzo has shown at times that he can be a very good setting dudes up in the half court. How many guys who don’t have that skill ever collect 17 assists in a game? Is it that SVG is using Lonzo a certain way because of the composition of the Pelicans? I can’t say for sure. But it seems dubious to me to just dismiss that aspect of his game at still such a young age.
Oh, that makes sense, i was thinking like Brian and so i thought “what a useless bet this is”. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
lessons from a misspent youth!
It essentially means you are betting on a coin flip….the odds are the same as to whether he will win the award or won’t. I would take the field over Jokic at those odds.
I love Twitter
This is too funny
Anthony Edwards getting rookie of the year would be….a choice. Giving him a lot of credit for his availability when he’s been one of the most harmful per-minute players in the NBA this year is similar logic to giving him a lot of credit for scoring a bunch of points extremely inefficiently so I guess kudos for consistency at least.
You never know what the voters will do but those odds seem like a big overreaction to LaMelo getting hurt the same week that Edwards had a couple big games. If Edwards stayed hot the rest of the season maybe something dumb would happen but he’s already had two bad games since the 40 pointer and I’m pretty sure voters will eventually decide that 40 really, really good games are significantly better than 70 bad ones.
no, i know…
Put down my vote for the Monterey Peninsula, too. Probably my favorite place on Earth. JetBlue has a “mint class” flight from JFK to SFO that gives you a flat bed for a ridiculously low delta over cattle class.(*) If you play it right, you get a row to yourself, fully enclosed. My first post-Covid flight will almost certainly be on one of those seats. The PCH drive from SF to Carmel is stunning in every particular, right down to the unique crops you see on the very short inland stretches. Love the beach in Carmel, love the sea otters, love the rocks, obviously love the golf courses.
For sheer beauty, the only place I’ve been that compares is probably Capri, but I rank the peninsula higher. I’m also a fan of the cooler weather, which probably biases it.
(*) I’m tall and not a fan of flying.
I’ve spent quite a bit of time in your neck of the woods, too, Cybersoze. One of my best friends is living in Lisbon now and I will be back there as soon as I’m allowed to be! I’m not much for the Algarve towns, they seems like they’re always overrun by English tourists. But getting out of the towns is amazing. Many moons ago I spent two weeks up in the Algarve mountains and it was incredible. Have you ever been to a little town north of Lisbon called Azenhos do Mar? I spent arguably the best day of my life there by the little ocean pool they have.
Never been to Azenhas do Mar, only know it by photo. You beat me to it. 😉
And now that i’m thinking, i’ve gone to Lisbon a lot of times, of course, but around Lisbon not so much, mostly Estoril and Cascais, but never visited Sintra (and they have this amazing palace and gardens from the time we had kings and queens) nor the south of the river (usually just passing by to get to Arrábida, Setúbal, Tróia and the Alentejo coast).
So cool you come to Lisbon often, it is a very interesting city indeed. In Portugal there’s some beef between Porto and Lisbon, like NY and LA in the states, but i’ve always liked Lisbon. When i was 13 or 14, i’d come with my mom, she was VP of a national bank and so from time to time she’d come to Lisbon for the board meetings, and i’d travel with her to make her company. Then they’d meet all day, and i had the day to myself to wander around Lisbon with no destination. Very good memories you brought back. 🙂
It’s hard without Stathead access (…) but I’ll give a go re: recent years.
2006 went to #1 PPG scorer CP3
2007 went to #1 PPG scorer Brandon Roy
2008 went to #1 PPG scorer Durant
2009 went to #2 PPG scorer Rose
2010 went to #1 PPG scorer Evans
2011 went to #1 PPG scorer Griffin
2012 went to #1 PPG scorer Irving
2013 went to #1 PPG scorer Lillard, probably should have gone to AD but pointzz
2014 went to #1 PPG scorer MCW haha
2015 went to #1 PPG scorer Wiggins hahahahahah
2016 went to #1 PPG scorer Towns with a unanimous vote.
In 2017, Brogdon won with a low PPG number (10.2), but the field wasn’t very packed. Embiid only played 32 games and Saric (12.8) was on a 28-win team, whereas Brogdon started 28 games for the 42-win Bucks and put up some bigger scoring games closer to the end of the season. Hield also was traded midseason for Cousins, which led to a lot more scoring, including 30 in the season’s penultimate game. But the Kings also sucked, and went 8-19 after the ASB, so he’s not a Proven Winner.
2018 went to Simmons, again with lower PPG than Donovan Mitchell, who scored 20.5 PPG that year, and Kuzma, who only slightly outpaced Simmons on a bad Lakers team. But Simmons started 81 games for a 52-win Philly squad, so the voters somehow got it right there.
2019 was Doncic’s year, and that was the right choice. Led all rookies in PPG.
2020 went to #2 PPG scorer Ja due to Zion’s injuries. Still a good pick.
Probably we can get the guy for a bag of chips, and there’s no way he won’t be an upgrade from whatever Obi has been giving us.
My wife and I visited Portugal several years ago and loved it. Went out of our way to visit Nazare (where they take those insane surfing videos) and it was awe inspiring standing on the cliffs watching the massive breakers roll in.
Also a nice bonus: restaurant prices are really low, especially compared to the rest of Europe. I did a double take every time we got our menus.
More important, he’s Canadian.
Of course I can’t see that he’d be terribly excited backing up Randle for 7 minutes a game if he’s currently frustrated with his playing time in a contract year…
It’s pretty hard to find opportunities the Knicks should be in on for a variety of reasons. We’re still not good enough to trade serious assets for anyone on the market, and just about everyone on the market is a pending FA so we’d essentially be paying for them twice within the span of a few months.
One possible exception is Aaron Holiday. He’s out of the rotation in Indiana, is under contract for next year, and is 24. They say they’re looking for a first-rounder for him, but I wouldn’t do that and don’t think they’re getting it from anyone else. I wouldn’t trade the Pistons second either, but I wouldn’t consider it crazy to trade 1-2 lesser seconds for him.
You guys make me very proud, thank you very much. 🙂 Spent one of my best holidays ever in Nazare, me and my 3 best friends at the time, it was the summer before we went to college, so you get the picture. 😉
You think the Pistons second will warrant a player better than Aaron Holiday? I’d do it.
Now this is a player worth a pick. Elfrid+Rivers for Brogdon works on the trade machine. Then i’d give one 1st RP, would try it to be further along the way (2023?) but if they wanted one this year, i’d give them the DAL pick.
According to the article in this tweet, Brock Aller could be headed back to Cleveland if they fire Koby Altman. It hasn’t been 40 minutes and we might lose all of Kenny Payne, Johnnie Bryant, and Brock Aller in one off season?
Hate playing the wet blanket, but don’t we already have a really short point guard on the roster who can’t get playing time…
No way, Leon would fire Perry and give Aller the job here, right? Right?
My stance on Brogdon, who I love and thought we should have signed in 2019, is that if we’re going to offer premium assets for him why not go after Lonzo Ball? Brogdon is currently a better player, but he’s also 29 and making around the amount of money I’d expect to see Lonzo Ball sign for. You could move the same package for Ball and end up with a good player for 4 years instead of two years. They’re different players but Ball fits our win curve better.
You’d have to give Brock Allerblogger the GM job, and honestly it feels like he’s been the de facto GM. Thibs got Rose, Wesley got to pick Quickley (after Aller pushed for a trade back), and Rose got Toppin but I’d all of our other personnel moves were Aller strategies.
Okay, now we’re talking.
Dolan needs to throw money at Brock/make him GM so he stays on.
Or we gotta hope that Leon’s son starts representing good players.
If it’s the same package, i agree with you. I was thinking on the OneTrueKnicksFan™ and trying hard to win now. 😉
I did a tour once where we had a break in Lisbon, I think we stayed there four days in an Airbnb. It was enough time to get into the rhythm of the place… walk down to the market in the morning, get a coffee and some fruit, stroll around for awhile, take a nap. There was an amazing gourmet food court kind of thing nearby, a great little neighborhood seafood restaurant on the corner. Good record shops.
Everything was cheap and people were chillllll. I could spend lots of time there no problem.
Time for Dolan to start spending a lot of money to keep these guys in place.
So cool you guys love my country the way i love yours. 🙂 Maybe next time your tour includes Porto. 😉
Berman of the Post:
Berman also says we’re looking to maybe grab Reddick (who wants to come to New York) if NOLA buys him out, and think we still have a good chance to sign Lonzo as a free agent.
If the management is hell bent on acquiring a guard, at this point I’d rather go for Evan Fournier than Oladipo, no questions asked. He’ll be cheaper than Brogdon and he’s much more efficient than Oladipo, can play a bit of defense and is a decent ball handler.
I don’t think we should really be going hard for a trade anyway, but Fournier is the kind of decent flier a playoff hopeful could take without compromising too many assets.
I’m only interested in Oladipo if we can get a firm commitment that he won’t re-sign. Preferably also a firm commitment that he won’t ever show up in the first place but beggars can’t be choosers I guess.
As for Payne I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see him get poached as he seems like a bit of a rising star. Maybe more money can keep him, but maybe not, and probably only temporarily anyway. The fact that they seem to have such a good job building out the staff this year should give us some faith that they can find a good replacement.
Reddick is obviously an all-time great shooter but at this point in his career is he better than Bullock and Burks?
Also the One True Knicks Fan would definitely approve of acquiring Brogdon.
So Knicksy to sign an all-star team of coaches & execs just to watch them walk away and do phenomenal things for other teams.
Maybe 15 years ago my wife had booked a tour around Spain. When it was canceled we bought tickets and followed their itinerary. It ended in Lisbon. By that time had ended the quaint accommodations and were staying nice smaller hotel. Wonderful time good museums night club district with Fado, great food. Strange event, out watching million people walking with candles for the mother of Christ. When we were trying to get on subway back down town was huge crowd. it didn’t appear we would get on until someone pushed me from behind. Just before the doors closed I realized they had taken my wallet. Back at hotel i canceled card and soon the hotel called to say my wallet had been returned by being dumped in front of an other hotel. They had managed to get card company for several hundred dollars in that short period of time. even that was interesting experience, don’t be dumb and have wallet in back pocket.
Would be perfectly happy with either Brogdon or Ball, although my great preference would be to just sign Lonzo as a restricted FA as that costs only money.
Pleasantly surprised to see all the reporting that Knick won’t do stupid things. I do hope we find a way to use our cap space though. I don’t see a first rounder out there but maybe early seconds at least.
I would actually agree with the One True Knicks fan on Brogdon, provided the price isn’t too high. He solves a number of problems for us in the backcourt and is only 28, so we could get a reasonable amount of production from him for a while yet.
On draft night, yes. That’s a great pick. Better than a late 1st bc of the contract flexibility.
I’m beginning to think, though, that the odds of us using all three of our draft picks are extremely low. If you look at the way the team behaved last year, they’re more likely to package all three picks to move up and select someone they love than stay put and take the best player available three times.
No I don’t think so. You can argue he’d add a different dimension because he’s still a really high volume 3-point shooter which neither Bullock or Burks quite is, but he’s 36 (almost 37 honestly) and he’s really not having a good season at all: Occam’s razor is that he’s probably just finished. As an end of the bench guy and good locker room force, sure we might as well bring him in, it doesn’t even cost us money since we’re still so far under the salary floor and some guard depth wouldn’t hurt us since based on the last week or so it doesn’t seem like Thibs is prepared to play Harper under any circumstances. But I don’t think he can really contribute as a rotation player anymore.
wow, that’s the worst quote I’ve heard about this team in a very long time.
Let’s hope “one NBA official” doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Yeah, unfortunately Lisbon has that (robberies) going for them also. It’s the capital and where the money is, so the thiefs follow.
I’d label an Oladipo trade as stupid, so it’s still possible. But here’s hoping they won’t do it, of course.
That’s, uh, not encouraging, but I think/hope/pray Rose and Allerblogger are smart enough not to punt on all our picks this year. We’re pretty far away from not needing more young players.
Oladipo just seems so pointless. He’s not good, and he doesn’t really add much to this team. It’s even dumber if Brogdon is actually on the market – Brogdon is better in pretty much every way and isn’t a huge injury concern.
What’s the supposed price for Brogdon?
He’s a very good fit here. A Brogdon-Quickley-Barrett-Randle-Robinson starting five, with another year of development for the three young guys in that lineup, is a contender in the East.
One first rounder and some of our shittier prospects and I’m all in on that.
Amusingly, Frank for Brogdon straight up works in the trade machine. It should pretty easy to deal for him, depending on what they want pick-wise, since our cap space makes it a lot easier. Also, apparently the Pacers have like five point guards on their roster?
It is a bit weird to me to realize Brogdon and Fournier are actually the same age.
My favorite choice would still be Lonzo, I think he has a lot of room for improvement still and the constant improvement in his shooting over the years is an encouraging factor. Brogdon would be the second best, Fournier 3rd and Dipo would be the please don’t do it for any price choice.
Lonzo is still the best choice. He makes the most sense. And his estimated $20 million sum is reasonable all things considered within the relative market of NBA “point guards” today.
The Knicks are well set up with Quickley-Barrett-Randle at the 2-3-4. All three of those guys can do some playmaking and can shoot, and can defend. Add another guy like that at PG and you’re really cooking with gas.
Brogdon or Ball would both be exciting gets. Somehow we’re assembling a versatile modern team.
i’m not sure how much upside lonzo has… he’s shooting 38% from 3 and shooting them over 60% of the time…. any improvement he does make will have to be from 2p land and the volume is in the frank ntilikina territory which is sort of terrifying (altho way better from an efficiency standpoint)… his ftr is also going in the wrong direction from an already microscopic level….
so i think he’s sort of maxed out as a scorer…. and so his upside is going to have to come from other places which is also hard to see but maybe who knows…
i think if you’re looking to spend big money on lonzo you have to be really comfortable with who he is as a player right now and i think his ask is pricing in a lot more improvement ….. i think that’s probably why new orleans doesn’t want to keep him and i would probably balk at him also….
The looming Oladipo trade is feeling real zero-sum right now. He could be traded to conference rival Miami, which would make them worse, or he could be traded to the Knicks, which would be a blunder beyond my comprehension. FRIDAY PLEASE COME SOON
We could be.
We also could be assembling a team with Andre Drummond and Victor Oladipo in the stating lineup.
We really don’t know if these guys are smart yet. Rumors are just rumors but they are mostly very frightening. It’s going to a stressful couple of days.
I was feeling pretty stress free until I read the last couple of posts
I think what they are referring to there is not trying to accumulate more picks with the intention of drafting more 18 year old projects (or in our case 22 year old projects too. lol
As it stands, we are close to being a playoff team now due to adding Noel, Burks, Rose, keeping Bullock and Gibson, getting good upside out of Randle and RJ, and stealing a 6th man scorer ready to contribute in Quickley via draft. They don’t want to add 3 or more rookies next year via draft with an eye towards 2024-2025. This team is already pretty good, has a LOT of upside, and has the cap space and excess picks to make trades for players that will make us better NOW and be around long enough to make sense long term too. They could always add a player via draft here or there, but they want to upgrade PG and the bench ASAP with players that are ready to come in and make us better now (the younger the better, just no more 2-4 year draft projects or busts unless that’s the only option).
Ball is clearly an option, but it comes down to whether they want to give up assets now for a player they might be able to sign next year without giving up anything for. Brogdon would be terrific. That comes down to what it would cost. We don’t want to get better at one position and lose almost as much at another.
The main reason I fear Oladipo as a possibility is that Perry is still around and we know how much he likes to stick with guys he originally drafted. On the flip side, it doesn’t appear Perry has a lot of power right now.
Peak Oladipo was a very good two way player, but his peak was one year and there’s no telling whether it was a fluke, he’s slowly recovering from his injuries, or he’s basically a shell of that peak. It’s just not worth the risk.
Big, huge, massive, gargantuan yes to Brogdon. Should have offer- sheeted him the Merc Accumulation Summer.
The team only has 3 guys under 25 who are worth a damn. The Knicks are certainly not over-saturated with young talent. That’s why the quote about not wanting any more young players is infuriating.
Get rid of Kevin, Obi, Iggy, and Frank if you think you have too much youth, not that hard!
Tom Thibodeau does not want to coach young players. That can be worked around; for example, he would pick coaching young players over unemployment. But he does not want to coach young players. Once that’s understood and internalized, every iteration of all this that we see starts to make sense.
***we are close to being a playoff team now due to adding Noel, Burks, Rose, keeping Bullock and Gibson, getting good upside out of Randle and RJ, and stealing a 6th man scorer ready to contribute in Quickley via draft.***
We are close to being a playoff team due to all that stuff, but also due to changed playoff rules and pandemic protocols that have basically made EVERYBODY close to being a playoff team (or at least 25 out of the 30 teams).
Hopefully Rose et al understand this, and aren’t blind to the reality that in a “regular” regular season, this roster would probably be 32-50 and not in win-now-or-any-time-soon mode. (i.e. no Isiah-type a Steve Francis (aka Oladipo) trade!)
Brogdon would such a nice pickup for us. I feel like he’s basically a better version of what you’d hope Lonzo becomes, and he’s making around what we’d have to pay Lonzo anyways. Lonzo is younger, but Brogdon is only 28 and there’s not a lot of mileage on him. I’m not really seeing the upside to Lonzo over him.
Some metrics already have him as an elite PG. RPM has him as the 4th best PG this season.
Raptor ratings have him as producing the 38th best season in the NBA this season, better than any one of his Pelican teammates and better than any Knick on our team not named Julius Randle.
Per the beat writers, Rose is cleared to play but won’t play tonight, Robinson is back, Payton will be a gametime decision.
It’s not always one extreme or the other.
The choice is not drafting an 18 year old with a lot of upside vs, bringing in a veteran and trying to squeeze the last couple of years of productivity out of him.
The choice Is drafting an 18 year old project vs. using a or picks to trade for a young but more seasoned player that can come in and contribute right now.
Ball and Brodgon are guys that can come in and make us better immediately but still have upside and longevity with the team. We are unlikely to get anyone like that with any of our picks. Even if lightning strikes and we do or have an opportunity to move up we’d have to wait 2-3 years for them to be as productive. This team is ready to compete for a playoff spot now with a simple upgrade at PG and is likely to see guys like RJ, Quick, and Mitch start breaking out soon (like next year).
Queta on the final 4 for NCAA’s DPOY
Anyone in the front office who says the knicks should offer victor oladipo anything more than 3 million a year should be fired immediately.
Why wouldn’t we just take Bledsoe’s contract ourselves? We can just trade it down the line when it’s shorter and less expensive to move.
We should not be giving up assets to acquire a contract we can easily absorb.
hahahahahahaha…after missing out on now 3 out of the last 5 first round picks, we could most certainly use a few more young guys that can actually play…
I think I am actually a little Lonzo curious. With him, Barrett, and Randle you’d have three guys who could move the ball, even if we’d lack a true point guard. It’s not a terrible plan. I loved him out of college and I could be convinced it’s a good idea.
Losing Aller would be terrible, although there is probably a bigger supply of Aller’s out there than we realize. Hopefully Rose would move on to the next version.
I have always loved Brogdon, who has been a solid player throughout his career. Like Oladipo, he’s only put together one really good season though. You’d love to draft a guy like him and sign him to a reasonable extension but if we ended up getting him it would be fine. Major step up from Elf.
I am definitely at the point where I am ready to see solid guard play from someone under 30 in the Garden again.
Wait, isn’t Brogdon basically a best-case scenario for Ball to become? Brogdon’s 3rd year he was already a 40,50,90 guy, whereas Ball was looking at some pretty lean lines. And, furthermore, Brogdon’s contract is a known quantity.
And, yeah, why not just be the team that absorbs Bledsoe. He’s due $18mil next year and is partially guaranteed the last year ($3.9). (In fact, forget Ball altogether, just be the team that absorbs Bledsoe and get some of those NOP picks out of their draft purse).
I guess the plan is to make a splash in free agency this summer. I’m not sure who we’d be targeting since it’s a pretty shitty FA class but that could be the only reason we’d be looking to not take on one additional season of salary since Bledsoe has a buyout after next year.
Lonzo has a strong defensive reputation that Brogdon lacks. I haven’t seen him play enough to comment, but it strikes me that we’d be getting much more on that side of the ball with Lonzo.
I’ve been back and forth on Lonzo – dude gets to the line once per game – but if he can legitimately stroke it from 3 it’ll be a huge boon for the team in addition to his playmaking and defense. Though I haven’t really watched him this season. The Knicks should absolutely take Bledsoe back with Lonzo so they can keep their draft capital – no way he’d be worse than Payton next year in their guard rotation. Whatever they do they should take advantage of having more cap room than any other team this deadline.
This is a tiresome mischaracterization. He doesn’t want to coach players who don’t play well (according to his own definition, which is not all that bad,). That’s why RJ and Quickley play and Austin Rivers sits.
It would be pretty dumb of us to give up picks to move Bledsoe so we can sign a free agent this summer (esp bc it would likely be Oladipo).
Again, these are all rumors, so I won’t react until there’s a move. But boy it sure seems like these draft picks are burning a hole in Leon’s pocket.
and the third best pg according to rpm is ….. devonte graham… it’s a similar thing with raptor where thaddeus young is right next to ball….
that’s not to say rpm and raptor are useless…. but if you’re going to judge how good someone is relative to others then you should be using a full 360 view and aggregating instead of just using the 2 best metrics…
like if we’re exclusively using rpm and raptor… are you really believing that lonzo is better than kyrie? of course not right? and why is that? because beyond eye test ™ you have other metrics that show kyrie is better…
and there’s an argument to be made that we do need someone at pg that can take on more usage than lonzo… because with mitch.. bullock replacement… randle and rj… there’s probably room for someone in the 20s to take on a scoring load… and lonzo isn’t that guy and probably won’t ever be..