2020-21 Game Thread: Non-Losing Record Knicks vs. Pistons

Quick quick.

DSJ’s 30 points revenge game?
D-Rose’s 25 FG return game?
Both?
Will Thibs be forced to play some smallball with Taj out and Noel back from a 41 min night?
Will Knox made his return in the rotation?
Will Frank get a special mission on Jerami Grant?

The answer my friend is blowin’ in the wind…
Stay tuned!

Let’s go Knicks!

yankee season preview on MLb network right now…for the yankee fan out there

And you’ve been wrong a whole bunch of times as well. For example, you thought Fizdale would be a fine coach.

Bro, you’ve misrepresented my position like ten times today. cut it out.

I hated Fizdale. I was the first person here to say he was shit, I dubbed him a snake oil salesman within a month, and had to sit here an endure the typical “it’s too early” bullshit from the likes of you while you were waiting for more overwhelming evidence to accrue.

#I was the first person here to say he was shit#

Remember myself yelling “Fire Fiz” during a game so you may were second!

BigBlueAL:
With Oladipo turning down an extension from the Rockets already reading Knicks trade rumors.Miami another team reportedly interested in trading for Oladipo.

Hard pass on Oladipo unless we’re getting a pick

because it was leaked as houston offering their max extension, i’m assuming this is another fertitta pr leak to get in front of blowback bc they are planning to trade him. houston can actually offer him a 4yr extension starting around june, before free agency. seems like a legit possibility (meaning that Rose goes for him).

ptmilo:
casey just said they’re going to try to pick rose up full court to tire him out given that he played 36 min last night and detroit had him on a 24-25 min limit

God forbid we have to bench Rose and play Quickley 30+ minutes!!!

In Victor Oladipo’s 9 year NBA career he’s averaged over .100 WS/48 1 time and that was 3 years ago. Hard pass.

noel makes mitch look like an offensive juggernaut

noel is really the only player i’ve ever seen with a jab. he goes for the steal literally every time but bc it’s just a kovalev body crusher he usually can do it without taking the normal risks of a big going steal hunting. drummond sort of does this too but it’s not the same.

alright put the kids in

I was going to say something snarky about the starting five, but these last few minutes just filled me with sadness.

Every time Plumlee makes a bucket, the Knicks coaching staff needs to make these guys run a lap or burpees or something.

nice board obi

Oh boy did I want that Obi three to go in…

… but Quickley is here to save the day.

Good defense by RJ, Toppin active in the boards, IQ’s floater makes me nervous…

Toppin shamefully blocked by another rookie (facepalm emoji)

My god I would hate Quickley’s guts if I wasn’t a Knicks fan lmao

While we benefit , atrocious call

IQs floater doesn’t look like anything anymore. Looks like a wandering shotput.

IQ just flat out stole those three points

hope he keeps this lineup in for a few more minutes…

Quickley is probably gonna need to ditch that floater. I expect it to be a miss every time

good alec burks is back baby!

Burks is the best guard on the Knicks.

Floater. Brick.

Floater. Brick.

the floater has hit the rookie wall

You can see that Quickley is not really a true point guard. He’s an excellent combo guard who should be playing alongside a true point.

The IQ/Frank backcourt is no threat to penetrate at all.

JFC what a struggle to run a fastbreak.

alec burks is the only nba player who won’t have to change his game at all when he’s 55, forty lbs heavier and holding court at la fitness

pepper:
the floater has hit the rookie wall

You would think he’d get a friendly roll or bounce. The mechanics or physics of how he’s shooting it probably make it worse. No arc at all to even give it a shot at bouncing in.

Missing some open looks on the perimeter, it’s like we’re an opponent of the New York Knicks

Noel showed good hands catching the ball at the foul line and hitting a cutting Obi for the dunk.

OK so scoring in transition is not our thing

RJ gets drilled on every drive but gets no calls whether if he finishes or not.

BigBlueAL:
RJ gets drilled on every drive but gets no calls if he finishes or not.

He has the same problem as Melo where he’s just too strong for the contact to show

watching this it’s hard to understand how Detroit has won a single game

RJ’s keeping us ahead…
I’m ready for Julius’ usual “Fuck you I’m An-All-Star” 5 minutes explosion to blow the game open…

Yay Noel

Boo Derrick

Whatever Noel costs this offseason, he’s sure looking like he’s worth it.

What the fuck is Rose doing?

Max:
What the fuck is Rose doing?

Assistant coaching

he’s the “closah”…

Derrick Rose:Thibs::Christopher Moltisanti:Tony Soprano

hi Knick compatriotas, so we are about to be over 500 a and still complaining, lets be happy and enjoy this while we can, d-rose is keeping us alive while he has been here our record has improved, but we need help, how tall is toppin , he looks like 6’3 out there

First half shooting:

NY 36,7% DET 30,8%

The ‘90s are back, I’m feeling young again.

This is like a preseason g-league game…

Beal is destroying the Celtics.

I think New Yorkers and, more specifically, New York sports fans are predisposed to pessimism. But also we’ve had a bunch of mediocre teams that haven’t made the playoffs and were just good enough to have terrible lottery odds. There’s a bunch of really good draft prospects this year, so people are more conflicted.

Toppin does look like a little kid out there. It’s definitely a little concerning.

Third quarter. Strap in.

Obi is like a quarter-miler; a bit slow out of the blocks, but he’s got a hell of a top speed once he has some runway. Since he seems to be three-quarters legs, no big surprise.

Randle is freaking awesome.

Randle has been amazingly consistent this year.

Beal just made super dumb play after all the good he did

That was a nice little passing chain: Randle-Rose-Noel

Wiz blew it for anyone who cares. As great as Beal played he gave Celtics chance they needed and they took advantage…. slipped on sweat

RJ is going to be a smaller version of Randle.

I don’t care how bad Detroit is, destroying them like this on a 2nd night of a back to back coming off a tough game last night this is awesome to watch.

Detroit is really bad but RJ’s playing like a future cornerstone…

And Julius gave me those expected 5 minutes…

Clyde’s pet peeves (continued)
3. Jumping to pass on offense;
4. Jumping on defense before the offensive player does;
5. Wearing a coat.

I know there are probably other guys ahead of him, but is Randle in the conversation for most improved? His numbers are only up a few points across a few categories, but (apologies for the eye-test) he is arguably having a significantly bigger impact on games.

We may see a bunch of Frank & Knox in the 4th quarter, if the Pistons do not make a run.

Our G-leaguers had a 4th quarter meltdown for the second straight game,
for some reason they played only 8 guys.
G-league’s boxscores make me crazy with their strange FT rule.

Nice move by Toppin

How did the Wizards lose that game?

dtrickey:
I know there are probably other guys ahead of him, but is Randle in the conversation for most improved? His numbers are only up a few points across a few categories, but (apologies for the eye-test) he is arguably having a significantly bigger impact on games.

That wouldn’t surprise me. The NY Knicks playing well narrative will help him a bunch. Don’t know who else would be there either.

Going back to the last thread, I do think Thibs would also be in line for an award (agree with it or not) except the Jazz are unexpectedly dominating the league right now. Thibs is probably runner-up though.

Max: Our G-leaguers had a 4th quarter meltdown for the second straight game,
for some reason they played only 8 guys.

Must be training them for a call up into Thibs’s rotations.

The frontcourt foul to prevent a fast break is another thing Clyde is up in arms about lately…

The guys in blue flying around in the 4th on the back half of a back to back.
Nice

Obi backpedaling is not a pretty sight

FWIW, Detroit’s announcers are really impressed with our defense

Thibs should not pull toppin there…

iq…looks like the microwave

IQ has a lot to work on, but damn, the kid can shoot!

toppin is suppose to be a great dunker, but he is not
dominique wilkins

Obi backpedaling is not a pretty sight

He just moves funny

c’mon thibs…give knox and Frank some run

The Glass Half Rebuilt:
Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau will eventually have dinner and discuss Obi Toppin. That is going to be one hell of a conversation, I bet.

We’re going to regret passing on Hali for a long time…

Lol taking out Quickley for Rose up 20 with 5 left is objectively insane

put the scrubs in…pleeezz

Max: Alas he looks more like Kenny Sky Walker…

wasnt that the guy that was a top pick but never became a good player

Nice game considering it’s a B-2-B but why no garbage time scrubs?

Before the season started, I went through the Knicks’ schedule and estimated that they would end the first half 13-24. This is a wonderful surprise.

Thibs is a moron

Put in the damn scrubs you psycho!

that was some weak shit by burks

we can keep climbing

Noel is not a PG

Noel is getting frisky in garbage time. He’s playing point center now.

They’re back within 20, guess the starters need to play all of the last 2 minutes

If we caveat it by saying Thibs has obviously been a net positive overall enough times, are we allowed to say it is perhaps suboptimal that all of our important players played way, way more than necessary?

There is something about Barrett’s game that I like.

He normally doesn’t care if he’s freezed out.

He’ll play and not sulk if he doesn’t get X amount of shot attempts.

Thibs should create a burner Knickerblogger account and just post middle finger emojis to everyone here lol

Why are you tired? This wasn’t triple-OT!

The Glass Half Rebuilt: I’m not so sure about that one. Immanuel Quickley and Tyrese Halliburton play the same role, and I believe Quickley will be a better shooter/scorer. Also everyone was saying the same thing about Brandon Clarke last year and that guy cooled down significantly.

At the risk of starting another multi-thread debate, Clarke has still been a much better scorer and probably player than RJ this year. Clarke started off slow but has upped his efficiency quite a bit since the slow start.

Just tonight Clarke has put up 16 & 12 on 9 shots in 21 min so far.

He risks his players for literally zero reward. You can’t win 2 games in 1. For that he is a moron

We’re 7-2 in our last 9 games.
Eat, drink and be merry.

TNFH, we only have one real center, he has to play 39+ minutes on a back-to-back up by 19. What else can they do?

Why not finish your b2b with your starters in triumphantly like Julius Ceasar entering Rome on his chariot followed by elephants, tigers and rhinos on parade?

Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:
Thibs’ strategy is gonna look moronic when Randle ends up tearing something in garbage time, just like it did when peak Rose tore his ACL playing garbage time for Thibs

The coach on BB breakdown already did a segment on this very issue back when Thibs coached Rose in Minnesota. See here: 1:53 to 7:20.

The post-game guys are going waaay overboard.

Mike Honcho: Does that make it a good or advisable course of action?

I guess it makes him an innovator…

Knew Your Nicks:
Why not finish your b2b with your starters in triumphantly like Julius Ceasar entering Rome on his chariot followed by elephants, tigers and rhinos on parade?

Exactly this.

I have no idea why Thibs left the starters in at the end of the game tonight and I agree it was dumb but still I get a good chuckle out of seeing so many people here complain about it.

I may be reevaluating my opinion on Randle’s viability as a long-term piece

Same. He’s turning into Thibs’ new Jimmy Butler.

And honestly, a Bradley Beal trade must be beginning to make more sense for Leon Rose. He would complement Julius very well.

“Z-man
February 28, 2021 at 10:23 pm

There isn’t another coach in the history of the game that still has his starters in up 20 with 3 minutes to go on the second night of a b2b where they played big minutes in a tight, physical game. Not one.”

I don’t know. Red Holzman played Clyde 43:00 minutes on the tail end of a 4-games-in-5-nights set in a 26 point win over the 9-63 Sixers once…

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197303070PHI.html

2012-13 was the last time Knicks were over .500 after 35 games. They were 22-22 in 2015-16 but they never got over .500 afterward, in fact I believe that season they finished with only like 32 wins.

I wish there was a way we could bring in a legit point guard in the off-season without burning our draft capital. Take this current team, add a competent PG and then two more 1RP prospects?

I’d buy League Pass to watch that team.

JK47:
I wish there was a way we could bring in a legit point guard in the off-season without burning our draft capital. Take this current team, add a competent PG and then two more 1RP prospects?

I’d buy League Pass to watch that team.

Dennis Schroder and Spencer Dinwiddie are the 2 available PGs I kinda like, I’m not even sure if Schroder’s still good.

Lonzo Ball…he’s a competent PG who fits the team needs. I think he’s on the way up offensively.

If Spencer Dinwiddie is willing to go to the Julius Randle 3-point Shooting Camp over the summer I’d sign him in a heartbeat.

Z:
“Z-man
February 28, 2021 at 10:23 pm

There isn’t another coach in the history of the game that still has his starters in up 20 with 3 minutes to go on the second night of a b2b where they played big minutes in a tight, physical game. Not one.”

I don’t know. Red Holzman played Clyde 43:00 minutes on the tail end of a 4-games-in-5-nights set in a 26 point win over the 9-63 Sixers once…

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197303070PHI.html

Yeah, I should have known better. But guys played more back then in general…Wilt once played all 48 minutes in every game of a back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back.

Kyle Lowry wants to go home to Philly. Lonzo Ball is the guy we always talk about but I really see him as a Prigioni/Kidd 1.5 guard and not an actual point guard. Lonzo and Quickley could be a ton of fun as a backcourt tandem and it probably wouldn’t cost us a 1RP to pull off. All of our assets should be kept so we can make a push for Nikola Jokic.

I stood against the whole blog last year advocating to acquire Chris Paul, and said adding him and Thibs would make us a potential second round playoff team just like the Thunder were. The consensus reply was there’s no point to adding chris paul, he would just make us a 30 win team. ha!

And I maintain it wouldn’t have been smart to give up the first rounder that turned into Immanuel Quickley for Chris Paul

BigBlueAL:
How are the PG prospects in this upcoming draft?I know there are a bunch of good shooters who should be available in the mid to late teens.

Jaden Springer is a good mid lottery guy, Sharife Cooper is a real wild card but he’s undoubtedly the best passer in the class, and then you have Jalen Suggs and Cade Cunningham at the top of the class.

And I maintain it wouldn’t have been smart to give up the first rounder that turned into Immanuel Quickley for Chris Paul

You have a great point there, but it’s a sleight of hand trick.

The argument from the board was that even for free, we shouldn’t take Paul bc there was no competitive advantage. That it would just turn a 20 win team into a 30 win team.

I argued vehemently that with Paul, Thibs, and some minor improvements this could be a 45 win team that wins a round of the playoffs.

The point I’m making is not that we should have given up Quickley for Chris Paul. Rather it’s to to remind the clown show from earlier today what my position was on this team heading into the season.

How are the PG prospects in this upcoming draft? I know there are a bunch of good shooters who should be available in the mid to late teens.

Would love us to take a look at Josh Giddey if we end up with a pick in the 20’s (wishful thinking). Only 19, but has incredible IQ and passing instincts for a 19 year old. Outside shot needs work, but can get to the bucket almost effortlessly.

The argument from the board was that even for free, we shouldn’t take Paul bc there was no competitive advantage. That it would just turn a 20 win team into a 30 win team.

That was nowhere near the consensus opinion on Paul. The consensus was not giving up any assets for Paul (I’m sure someone was against Paul at any cost, there was someone who thought that Clyde Frazier was the problem with the Knicks, after all, but not even close to being the consensus).

oh god, Brian, yes it absolutely was. I thought y’all were on crazy pills.

You’re pulling a Rashomon. Go re-read the threads. Trading draft picks for him was the hill many of us were willing to die on for Paul.

EDITED TO ADD: Heck, I didn’t even need to go further than an actual post:

This is an interesting bit of news. There are now reports that the Thunder would be willing to get rid of Chris Paul pretty much just to dump his salary. They’re not so desperate that they would add draft picks, but it seems like they would be amenable to some reduced offerings.

Ian Begley suggested both Reggie Bullock/Frank Ntilikina and Reggie Bullock/Kevin Knox offers, noting, “One executive (not with the Thunder or Knicks) speculated that the Thunder would be open to the Ntilikina/Bullock package. Another exec pointed out that the trade market for Paul would be limited. So, if OKC wanted to get out of Paul’s contract, the Knicks wouldn’t be competing with many other teams. ”

Huh, if the Knicks aren’t giving up draft picks, I guess I wouldn’t mind either deal.

Z-man: And I don’t think CP3 comes here, why would he pass up that player option at his age?

bc 2 years/$80mm is better than 1 year/$44mm

Despite how well we are doing, I still think we wind up in the 8-10 area…but riding this wave is fun!

Most likely, but exactly, ride this as long as they can!

I think people have been too quick to jump on the Chris Paul saving the Suns narrative while ignoring that they legitimately have pretty good talent on their team. Booker is pretty good when he’s shooting a 600 ts% like he’s been, Bridges has become a monster 3 and D player, Ayton has improved and they have many quality role players like Cam Johnson, another lights out shooter, Crowder, Saric, even Kaminsky and Payne have been solid.

Some of it is certainly related to Chris Paul, but there’s a lot of talent on the roster. They’ve won games where CP3 did not play well, and they were already flashing potential when they went on a tear in the bubble games.

in fairness, Brian, you were on my side and thought Paul could continue to be an outlier, but a quick google search yielded some of the consensus responses I was referring to:

from TNFH:

The other outcome (and I find this one more likely) is that you’re wrong, as in the current Knicks aging Chris Paul aren’t a playoff team.

Owen:

I believe Thibs, Paul and this roster would be toxic disasterpiece theater. No way you can convince me it would work out.

Jowles predicted we’d be a 20 win team with Chris Paul:

maybe we should just get even more inured to the words, “And with the 9th pick in the NBA Draft, the Knicks select…”

Anyway, this has little to do with the price of gas, just a reminder that not everyone thought this team was doomed.

I think people have been too quick to jump on the Chris Paul saving the Suns narrative while ignoring that they legitimately have pretty good talent on their team. Booker is pretty good when he’s shooting a 600 ts% like he’s been, Bridges has become a monster 3 and D player, Ayton has improved and they have many quality role players like Cam Johnson, another lights out shooter, Crowder, Saric, even Kaminsky and Payne have been solid.

Some of it is certainly related to Chris Paul, but there’s a lot of talent on the roster. They’ve won games where CP3 did not play well, and they were already flashing potential when they went on a tear in the bubble games.

I mean, Paul is having another phenomenal year. It’s hard to not give the guy credit when he’s 90 and still the best player on the team.

But yes…Mikal Bridges…sigh.

I predicted we’d be in the play in tournament. But Indont think I underestimated the Knicks, rather I overestimated the rest of the East.

but i’m not making this up. many of our smartest posters thought adding chris paul to this team would still keep us in the lottery.

anyway… I’ve been sleeping on Lonzo Ball. His numbers look better this year, but I’m reluctant to trust he is the player ntilikilla assumes we’ll get.

How about this interesting fact, the Bucks are the only team in the East with more wins by 10+ points than the Knicks. They have 16 double digit wins while the Knicks, Nets and Raptors have 11. No other team in the East has more than 9.

CP3 ties up a significant amount of cap space. If we traded for CP3 in the offseason, then we’d need to cut ~$21M of player salary. That means cutting out all our FA signings: Noel, Burks, Payton, & Rivers. Alternatively and more likely, we would have sent Randle to the Suns.

If we cut Payton & Rivers, whatever, no big loss. But Burks & Noel have been good, and we’d be lost right now if we didn’t have Noel while Mitch is out with an injury.

Trading Randle for CP3 doesn’t make us much better than we are today. Plus we wouldn’t have any cap space.

So yeah, I still think it was right to pass on the CP3 trade. We’re currently in a much better position for having passed on him.