2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Heat

The Knicks head to Miami for the second game of a home and away against the Miami Heat.

Throughout the season, Thibs has been particularly good at coming up with new schemes for the second game that the Knicks play against an opponent. We saw them lose to the Blazers and the Bulls in the first game and then beat the Blazers and the Bulls in the second game. In both instances, Thibs identified issues that the Knicks could exploit and they did so.

The Heat, though, also have a brilliant coach in terms of schemes in Erik Spoelstra. Spoelstra came up with some excellent schemes against the Knicks on Sunday, particularly making RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley look a bit lost (and it is the sort of scheme I imagine other teams will be trying, as well, although the Heat have better defensive personnel than most). However, even with all of that, the Knicks were right there in the Heat game.

The Heat have struggled mightily this season, although they’ve now won 3 of their last 5 games.

I think that the Knicks will have an easier time adjusting to the game on Sunday, so I think Thibs will come up with a way for his team to pull out a split tonight.

Derrick Rose won’t be joining the Knicks until Friday, and he’ll make his debut with the Knicks against one of the very worst teams in the NBA, the Washington Wizards, so that’ll be a nice way to get his return to the Knicks started. Wow, Derrick Rose IS going to make his Knick return tonight. That’s very surprising. This will be interesting.

Let’s go, get closer to .500, Knicks!

280 replies on “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Heat”

“Derrick Rose will likely come off the bench for the Knicks when he becomes available to play.— Mike Vorkunov (@MikeVorkunov) February 9, 2021”

At least for now, Elfrid Payton didn’t hear no bell.

This rotation is gonna be a mess for a while.

I don’t get how anyone could look at the Rose trade and think that the plan isn’t to have Rose work as Payton’s back-up so that the Knicks will always have a similar point on the court. That just seems to be a general thing that Thibs does.

According to Minnesota stats Rose played 60 games there starting 13 of them.

As Brian wrote a nice, interesting coaching duel tonight, let’s see who’ll adjust better.

Frank’s out for “Health and Safety Protocol” and Vorkunov just tweeted that Rose will be available to play…

Huh, yeah, Rose is a game-time decision. Seems hard to believe he’ll play, but it’d be interesting!

Wow, I’m very surprised that Rose is already playing. Good for him, I guess, to want to get to it so quickly.

Tom Thibodeau on newest Knicks PG Derrick Rose:

“Even when you back to the year he spent in NY he still averaged 18 points a game. He averaged 18 points a game in Minnesota. He averaged 18 points a game in Detroit. So he’s always been able to contribute.”

NY 31-51 (64 gm)
MIN 36-46 (51 gm)
DET 20-46 (50 gm)
(I don’t count his CLE-MIN split season, just as Thibs did, because he played only 25 combined games, averaging 8,4 PPG)

Those 18 PPG are really useful, bravo Thibs.

P.S. Rose could score 30 and lead us to a win in Miami, but we know how Rose played in New York, despite his 18 PPG… Pointzzz!

The best show of the season:
The Fall and the Rise of Thibzzy Starbust and his Riders from Bars!

As Brian wrote a nice, interesting coaching duel tonight, let’s see who’ll adjust better.

I am a bit less than fully optimistic that there is a victory in our very near future as fans of the New York Knickerbockers.

Max: Tom Thibodeau on newest Knicks PG Derrick Rose:

“Even when you back to the year he spent in NY he still averaged 18 points a game. He averaged 18 points a game in Minnesota. He averaged 18 points a game in Detroit. So he’s always been able to contribute.”

Well, there it is. If anyone had any hope that this team could even be considered barely competent our head coach is talking about PPG.

When the Heat blitz the P&R, the Knicks need to either split the double or flash to the foul line to get a 4 on 3. If done correctly, it should lead to a bunch of Mitch dunks.

RJ passed quickly out of double team twice … which was great … Randle throws one terrible pass and then takes a terrible shot the second time … they’re begging to be on their heels chasing, but no. We bail em out.

ephus:
When the Heat blitz the P&R, the Knicks need to either split the double or flash to the foul line to get a 4 on 3.If done correctly, it should lead to a bunch of Mitch dunks.

You beat me to it

The Heat uniform is designed to distract. I’m surprised there aren’t sequins involved.

Mitch’s defense was incredible. Stymied Adebayo, switched onto Nunn, kept Nunn from penetrating, then swatted his jumper.

Plays like that will get him paid.

***I feel like you’re trolling me.***

I just don’t get it. Isaac is recovering from injury, which could derail him, but at 22 he was already a very good player. I wouldn’t call him a bust, and if he comes back next year without lingering effects of his surgery, he could be a real game changer on any roster.

As for Bamba, it sounds like you are arguing that because the Magic are a bad franchise and haven’t played him much that he isn’t valuable, which is antithetical to your usual punditry. Bamba has been pretty good on a per-minute basis. In fact, per-36 he out scores, out rebounds, and out blocks Mitchell Robinson. He’s not on the cusp of greatness at the moment, but I don’t think it’s fair to call him a bust, even at the #6 pick. There aren’t a ton of names in that draft selected below him that are demonstrably better. By VORP and BPM he’s the #12 player in that draft (well ahead of fellow lottery picks Bagley, Carter, Knox, and Sexton), and by WS/48 he’s #6, right where he was taken. (He’s certainly not in Frank Ntilikina’s bust class, as you suggest).

Even though Rose has no practice time with the Knicks, I assume he knows Thibs’ playbook. It still will take a while for Rose to develop chemistry with his teammates.

I won’t be able to watch the game for a while. Just looking at the boxscore though – 10 free throw attempts for the heat already doesn’t bode well.

iggy’s functional strength even now is still ridiculous. foul yes but when was the last time you saw randle power dribble against a wing and get stood up?

Noel is just more of a pest than Mitch. They do very similar things obviously but when they are playing a more stationary defense, Noel just has more active hands … there’s just more there … I want Mitch to be a pest too

So if Rose ONLY takes Rivers’ minutes, are we okay with this trade?

(‘Okay’ being a relative term, of course…)

Not to be understated, having Noel back in this game is a big deal.

Raven:
So if Rose ONLY takes Rivers’ minutes, are we okay with this trade?
(‘Okay’ being a relative term, of course…)

Yeah, i’m OK with that

KJG:
Poor Austin

I wonder if he and Payton would be paired in some sort of deal that netted Reddick.

Well I’m going to state the obvious … Derrick Rose moves quicker and makes way better decisions than Austin Rivers. Bottom line

It’s a testament to how fucking bad the Knicks PG situation has been that Rose can step in and look like a savant…

Only play Rivers against Utah. And since we played them twice already, don’t play him at all.

I only have the Heat broadcast, clearly there’s Clyde&Breen and there’s the rest.

Derrick Rose is playing like he wants to vanquish Payton’s role, not Rivers’.

That was a fun shot from Obi but it’s not great he had to resort to it to post up Duncan Robinson

Rose hits his second three. Clyde says “It’s not that easy, folks.” I love him.

Obi takes on and crushes the mighty Duncan Robinson. Baby steps…

Z-man:
It’s a testament to how fucking bad the Knicks PG situation has been that Rose can step in and look like a savant…

8 points, 2 3PM, 3 assists, and 1 steal is good basketball regardless of who’s playing.

Grocer:
That’s enough extolling of the virtues of the rapist for me, turning it off.

From Ron LeFlore to Jayson Williams to Lenny Dykstra to Kobe Bryant, we compartmentalize the player from the person.

I’m honestly more shocked by how Miami’s offense has collapsed. It’s not like the defense has looked amazing or anything like that.

Nothing more annoying than building a double digit lead then immediately allowing a bunch of wide open 3pters.

Our first unit simply lacks shooters. There’s realistically not one good jump shooter out there

Oh, that was a classic Payton drive to the hoop. Beautiful until he let go of the ball…

allowing olynyk to score 17 is embarrassing

Well, to be fair, the Heat allowed Rose to score 10.

I am not liking how bad RJ has looked at the basket. They’re pushing him around.

KJG: Our first unit simply lacks shooters. There’s realistically not one good jump shooter out there

When IQ joins the starters the first unit will be much better balanced.

The whining here is comical. We are watching a team projected by Vegas to have the worst record in the league going toe-to-toe with, regardless of their record, a really good team. Whatever our faults, we are a hard-nosed, overachieving, cohesive group.

With a few adjustments such as getting 3 new starters we re easily contenders!!!

The whining here is comical. We are watching a team projected by Vegas to have the worst record in the league going toe-to-toe with, regardless of their record, a really good team. Whatever our faults, we are a hard-nosed, overachieving, cohesive group.

I agree that you have to be happy to be down just two at the half.

So it’s only one half, but I’m highly uncomfortable with not hating watching Rose. About the only thing I really didn’t like was it felt like Quick wasn’t getting the touches he normally gets. But against the Heat, who are just tough for a rookie, maybe that’s okay. As long as he gets the minutes…

Jimmy Butler is what we hope RJ Barrett becomes.

Kelly Olynyk is having himself a game. Knick bigs don’t play guys like him well. And it’s not just his offense. Olynyk has been playing smothering defense. He and Adebayo have pretty much shut out Mitch and Randle.

More ObiRose pnr please
Stop sending JButler to the line
Make Julius a coffee and
We re getting this W

Brian Cronin:
I am not liking how bad RJ has looked at the basket. They’re pushing him around.

RJ’s totally unprotected by the refs,
if Trae Young were so refereed he would die after two games…

For me the most surprising thing in Rose’s game was his defense on Duncan Robinson in the last play of the first quarter.
And he showed how to attack a swarming defense, penetrations and quick passes, every double team means someone’s free somewhere…

Z-man:
The whining here is comical. We are watching a team projected by Vegas to have the worst record in the league going toe-to-toe with, regardless of their record, a really good team. Whatever our faults, we are a hard-nosed, overachieving, cohesive group.

i would put it in the constructive criticism category…if you want real whining…we can go there…

I could only watch the first quarter. But it looks like Thibs idea of pairing Rose and Quickley was good. It prevented Miami from pressuring Quickley with a double team and the second unit had a great plus minus. I can’t complain about Rivers losing minutes.

Only just tuned in to see the last couple of minutes of the half. Judging by KB and Twitter Rose has been okayish? Box score wise it’s the same production we got from DSJ in the two seasons he was here, so looks like we have come out on top ha ha

olynk will come back down to earth in the 2nd half…

noel/rose vs taj/rivers…makes a difference…

Raven:
So it’s only one half, but I’m highly uncomfortable with not hating watching Rose.

I try to detach myself during games and only react to the basketball side, but I feel guilty every time I say a good thing about him…

Pretty free-flowing start to the 3rd. Warms the heart to see an RJ to Mitch assist.

How did Mitch miss that?

He took a weird angle to the rim and Adebayo hit him in the arm

I don’t get how a Knicks fan doesn’t enjoy watching this team playing its guts out…

I sometimes get angry when you see blatant travels like that and wonder how they get missed, but then I remember it’s the NBA so *shrugs*

Heat are so damn fast at recovering on D.

Good game, given how hard both teams are playing.

RJ will be very happy not to be playing against Jimmy Butler for a while after tonight

Breen seemed really choked up about Konchalski

Edit: Sounds like they were friends. Clyde gracious as always.

The Clyde and Breen Quotient, the percentage of which my Knicks fandom relates to those two, is at a new peak I think.

They are playing hard though

It’s nice when the other team’s shooting from three reverting to the mean is a good thing.

Smart of Miami to go inside after so many bricks in a row. RJ, though, seems intent on shooting his way through it.

barrett is a ball hog or reluctant passer to often…mitch was pissed off earlier and just there on the break he should have passed

RJ already way better than Butler… at threes.
That was Butler’s first of the season.

Interesting game — speaking of RJ he’s made a couple of unforced errors, but pretty much every other Knick has played really well. (RJ hasn’t been that bad, but everyone else has been tremendous.)

Have we discussed how terrible the Heat uniforms are? I feel disoriented btetween those and the court.

Had three drinks, that might be the issue

I guess playing Rose over Rivers is a good idea? Did the Knicks suddenly get better?

Jerami Grant steamrolled the Durant-less Nets,
plus Harden and Jordan had a spat during a timeout about DAJ’s defense….

This is ridiculous, even the Heat announcers thought that was a loose ball foul on Adebayo not Randle.

Why doesn’t IQ just shoot it from three?

BTW, whoever had the Baghdad Bob comment about Wally, that was genius

Really hope the Knicks hold on to this lead, would be most satisfying win of the season.

Owen:
Have we discussed how terrible the Heat uniforms are? I feel disoriented btetween those and the court.

Had three drinks, that might be the issue

They hurt my eyes

D has been spectacular tonight. Easy the most enjoyable team we have had to watch in a while, regardless of whether we end up in the lottery.

It’s nice to know that even when Noel gets his fourth foul, we can say oh, right, Mitch is on the bench…

Every time I see Tyler Herro I just want to punch him in his snot box. Especially when he’s playing against the Knicks.

Raven:
It’s nice to know that even when Noel gets his fourth foul, we can say oh, right, Mitch is on the bench…

That’s why signing Noel was such a big deal – probably the best off-season signing.

Agree to disagree on the Unis

Are they going to blow this game?

Second half Rose has been more what I expected

The unis are distinctive and scream Miami. Look at the generic shit our guys are wearing.

The Unis definitely have a Miami Vice feeling. I just feel like they are going to give me an aneurysm.

So is a tech on Julius

Although that was a terrible call. He was right.

“I don’t want the ball. You take it.” “I don’t want it. You take it!” “No, you!”

Randle believes it is the team’s best interest for him to dribble up the court…he is sadly mistaken

Generally speaking, so goes Elfrid Payton, go goes the Knicks. And luckily, right now, he is going.

I said upthread that everyone on the Knicks (sans RJ) was playing really well. I would like to take that back now. However, they are all still playing really, really hard.

Z-man:
Julius bricks a flat 15 footer and Herro sinks a leaning pull-up 3.

You cannot draw up a more in rhythm 2 point shot. Guy probably hits 1,000s of them a week

Having a team decent enough where you care if they win or lose sometimes sucks lol.

I call this a Quickley drive in the lane trying to draw a foul.

Owen:
Elf got it done there.

Mitch’s finishing around the hoop is just bizarre this year

Yeah, I have no idea what’s going on with him. He hasn’t been exactly bad, he’s still shooting 69%, but he’s missed 8 dunks and 25/64 on layups.

Ugggh! I wanted IQ but RJ was as good a choice. He just blew the layup. Tough loss. But the Knicks can play with the Heat.

Some nights every call goes the wrong way. The refs were very bad.

It was an extremely well contested layup by one of the best defenders in the league. He had to go up high. A little too much juice. Take that look all day

good play, good job dragging bam out of the paint. got rj going to his strong hand. 95pct of the time you get worse looks than that there.

To beat this kind of officiating you need to be close to perfect on offense… and we’re not

I’m disgusted by the refs.

Horrible shooting night for Quickley, Randle and Barrett (how the fuck did you miss that last shot kid? Yes, you’re fouled but…)

Nice game for Payton and good first half by Rose.

Very good defense and they never give up, it’s a very rootable team but it’s time to start to work on offense…

I don’t care to look but I think our all star missed nearly every shot he took in the 4th

I’m old enough to remember when the Knicks always won close games against the Heat.

Maaaan…
The finishing squad needs refurbishment
It’s like praying for every last 2min possession to be decent

Great game
Proud for the team but…
Finishers should be worked a bit

pepper:
just happy that it wasn’t a randle falling out of bounds fadeaway…progress…

But all he had to do was hit one of the other bricks he heaved up tonight …. maybe he was finally due !

Julius may give the 1st violin to DRose and backpedal a bit psychologically
He seemed like an A male that don’t really enjoy to be the A male tonight
Otoh Heat are Not an easy team to beat so let’s not overreacting…

Having a chance against them in both games was pretty cool and showed many things about this team’s mentality

I’m liking it so far!

Thibs just called out the refs without calling out the refs. “I’ve got to see the film. I’ll leave it at that.”

I watched Haliburton score 12 easy points in the flow in the second quarter with a nice block and various excellent defensive plays, and turned it off before the half.

I thought Obi played relatively well today. Another year and a half and he’ll be a solid rotation player.

Raven:
I watched Haliburton score 12 easy points in the flow in the second quarter with a nice block and various excellent defensive plays, and turned it off before the half.

I thought Obi played relatively well today. Another year and a half and he’ll be a solid rotation player.

I don’t know. Even though he scored on the play, watching him back down Duncan Robinson didn’t leave me with a whole lot of confidence.

That was a good game. It wasn’t the outcome I was hoping for, but it was a good game.

Jimmy Butler is going to be RJ’s right-of-passage NBA experience. He needs to get to the point when/where he can outplay him. I enjoyed that shove from RJ that sent Butler flying past the basket. I wonder what Jimmy was saying to RJ while they were standing together waiting for free throws. A play or two before the foul shots Jimmy had played excellent defense on one of RJ’s drives. When they were standing there together, it seemed like he was encouraging him to keep going to the rim. RJ didn’t say a thing.

Those Miami Heat uniforms are absolutely diabolical. You fade up from the bottom to the top. No one is supposed to fade from side to side. That’s just evil. It’s like some type of visual competitive edge. It’s very similar to that weird field at Boise State.

So, I was listening to Kids Place Live in the car (because, you know, that’s what I choose to listen to in the car, not because that’s what my bosses MAKE me listen to), and the Vanilla Ice song Ninja Rap comes on, and I’m like “what the fuck, Jesse James, you totally ripped your “Go New York Go New York Go” song off of this!”. I mean, he changed “ninja” to “New York” and I supposed he changed a few names like “Leonardo” to “Ewing” and “Raphael” to “Mason”, But, come on dude. Was there a rule in the early 90s that white rappers could only use the ONE two three one two three FOUR beat? Cause that sucks, and the anthem of my youth has been officially ruined…

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