Woj reports that the Knicks will be naming CAA super-agent Leon Rose as their next president.
This was a terrible process. This was handled about as poorly as you could handle things. This was way too rushed. The whole thing is very embarrassing for the Knicks…
Buuuuut…I could see it working out. We saw CAA destroy the Knicks back in the day, but their goal then wasn’t to help the Knicks win, but to help their clients get what they wanted. To do so, Rose routinely took Dolan to the woodshed, much like Masai Ujiri.
So Rose is at least actively good at his previous job. Will those skills translate to being an NBA president? No idea, but the odds are much better than Phil Jackson or Steve Mills.
So make no mistake, this is still embarrassing. It just might be a case where they walked ass backwards into something that works.
321 replies on “Woj Bomb: Knicks, Tired of Being Made Fun of For Letting CAA Run Team, Decide to Let CAA Run Team”
let me just repeat my link from the previous thread if you want to learn more about leon:
https://youtu.be/JLdV2Ht-R0U
Challenge
So with this news there’s also the rumor of Mook for Green and Kuzma being imminent. Say that happens..we might as well move Portis, Knox, Trier, Payton & possibly both Dallas picks for D Lo & one of their guards or Spellman as cap filler. Might. As. Well.
Mook for Danny Green and Kyle Kuzma is a win now move to me. Nothing else to do but complete the cycle. A stupid cycle, even though it leaves us with a higher floor to build from. Now that I think about it, in a “nothing to lose” way, I kinda like that idea
Why should we believe that Rose will do anything other than give big contracts to CAA clients? This is a disaster. CAA arranged for JD and the Straight Shot to open on tour for the Eagles (a CAA client), and we have been a CAA vassal state ever since. Dolan literally sold us out. What a scumbag.
Why would the lakers be dumb enough to trade Danny Green for Mook?
Well this made me feel a little better, at least the JVG part: (via Isola twitter)
*please be JVG, please be JVG, please don’t be Thibs or Mark Jackson
By far the best thing about the Phil Jackson administration was that he broke CAA’s hold over the franchise. Now we’re in deeper than ever. We will never escape Dolan. Never ever. I hate hate hate hate him.
We better move Green for another asset.
@DRed
They want someone to guard Kawhi/George
I think they believe they’re getting Collison. He’d get Green’s minutes at the 2.
i once drove three and half hours just so i could get dropped in person. once that was out of the way, we had still had a weekend left in a shitty town where we neither of us knew anyone to do faux normal couple shit like go to the movies and eat food. that must be what scott perry feels like today.
Shit. I actually thought maybe, just maybe, bringing in a solid executive agent, with absolutely great connections and negotiation skills (I mean, we know that very well don’t we) Might be great.
But now bill simmons thinks it’s smart. So I don’t know what to think. It’s bound to be the worst thing ever
Was accumulating assets and then waiting till the offseason to sign Masai that difficult?
Occam’s razor is feeling pretty jealous of Dolan’s razor right about now.
Once we easily acquire KAT, Devin Booker and DLo we will play a lot of entertaining games in which the Knicks lose because nobody plays defense
OMG it really never ends.
Poor Masai. That’s what he gets for being competent and actually wanting to come to the Knicks.
Could we flip Danny Green to a good team?
The bottom line is we all misunderstood what “firing” Steve Mills really meant. Mills is on the MSG board now. He hasn’t gone anywhere. He was promoted. And Scott Perry is still the GM.
Dolan thinks he didn’t get a star because he didn’t have the right relationship people in charge, so he made room for them. That’s literally all that happened this week.
We’re going to be handing out max contracts to mid-level CAA clients for the next 6 years. This shit’s bleak.
You’d have to figure that that would be the plan. If not now, then definitely over the offseason.
I sort of get Green for Morris from the Lakers perspective. Green is better than Morris, but the Lakers have a lot of guys capable of guarding small wings (Bradley, KCP, even Rondo and Caruso to some extent) and very few capable of guarding big wings. I don’t think Lebron has the legs any more to play 40 minutes orchestrating the offense and guard Kawhi on the other end. That’s the logic. I have no idea why we would also be getting Kuzma in such a deal. As I said, Green is pretty clearly better than Morris. A 3-team trade where Green goes somewhere else (say Milwaukee), we get a first from that team, and Morris goes to the Lakers would have some logic. I don’t understand how we could be getting an asset to go from Morris to Green though.
Dolan: Hires HOF coach to do a job he’s never done before. He fails spectacularly.
Dolan, later: Hey, let’s hire Leon Rose to do a job he’s never done before!
Also keeps Mook from the Clips which the Lakers probably overvalue
Three years from now, with the Knicks still mired in the cellar, the same idiots who supported the Phil hire will be in shock — shock! — that the Rose hire didn’t work out. “But…but…he was such a good agent! I don’t understand how he failed. He must have gotten lazy, or maybe it was someone else’s fault!”
Well this should be good for lots of laughs at least.
They need salaries to match. So they can’t just trade Kuzma for Morris.
worldwide wes is gong to bring us bronny
Why can’t we ever just hire someone who is good at the job we’re looking to fill?
Dolan is a guy who would hire the local 7-Eleven manager to do all his grocery shopping, then act surprised when his grocery bill jumps 200% and his fridge is filled with day-old nachos.
Danny Green is the 3rd best player on the Lakers and just as good a defender as Morris. Have no idea why they’d want to trade him.
The annoying thing is that I heard Mar Bartelstein on nba radio yesterday and he’s the kind of agent that can’t compete with the big dogs for the big names, but routinely reps guys taken later in the draft who prove to be productive and desirable to winning teams. (I first started following him because he repped David Lee, who was the prototypical Bartelstein player). His players all get good deals, but never become albatrosses. If we were going to go the agent route, that’s the kind of guy you want, not the mega-agent that has always sold his players on their points-per-game.
Even when they did that with Walsh, it also failed. Granted, it failed less than Mills and Jackson.
But yes, this is obviously a terrible process.
at least we can say leon rose isn’t a proven failure as a PBO. so hey maybe we’ll get lucky.
I’ve said this many times before, but at this time it bears repeating: the only way to enjoy this team is as comedic farce. This is some “Mr. Roper overhearing a conversation and making a sexual connotation out of it” kind of shit. If you learn to appreciate the utter hopeless Clouseau-esque nature of it all it is kind of entertaining.
Are Rose and Rich Paul friends? Paul was Rose’s protege and then took Rose’s biggest client, but is that just normal agent stuff?
You misunderstand me. Green for Morris makes (some) sense and works straight up. We could then flip Green somewhere else (or make it an actual 3-team trade) to get a more appropriate asset. I don’t understand why we would also be getting Kuzma (an asset) along with Green (better than Morris) in exchange for Morris.
It must be so fun to be a person who grew up disliking the 1990s Knicks. Like if you were a Heat or Bulls or Pacers fan, and you had this Knicks rivalry and forever dislike them. The last 20 years must be one long orgasm for you. Watching the Knicks do one absurd thing after another, embarrass itself over and over, humiliate its fans, and just be a non-stop laughingstock. It really must be an absolute treat.
The Lakers really want Morris (both for their team and to keep him off the Clippers) and the Knicks want Kuzma. The only way the Lakers can think of getting Morris is to also give up Green to match salaries. It’s just a lucky situation for the Knicks. Green is not their target, Kuzma is. You could easily say it shouldn’t be like that, but that’s the Knicks’ take on it.
I guess this is what I’ll have to pivot to.
I can’t stomach reading the “Kyle Kuzma is actually pretty good” posts, along with all the “with Danny Green in the starting lineup we’re 4-4 so maybe we’re on the right track now” bullshit that’s sure to come from corners of the internet.
That they’ll somehow manage to fuck up
Three predictions right now.
Next coach: John Calipari (CAA client)
Next draft pick: LaMelo Ball (CAA client)
Next Chris Smith: LiAngelo Ball (CAA client)
Simmons already started the Calipari rumors going!
Welcome to your New York CAAniCAArboCAArs!!!
Fuck. LaMelo Ball. Of course that’s going to happen now.
But this isn’t the only construction to get Morris for Kuzma if that’s the main aspect of the trade. Morris for Kuzma+Avery Bradley+Cousins works also and obviously leaves the Lakers in much better shape and seems significantly more even from a value perspective (Not sure if we could get anything for Bradley but seems possible someone would give us a 2nd for him).
it’s not just that we do weird shit all the time, we do weird shit at the weirdest times…
Yeah but then we’d have to cut Portis and Ellington!!!
Its possible the Clips are offering something good enough to make the Lakers up the ante
I’m going to predict that when the dust settles, the Knicks are going to have a far better basketball ops team than Steve Mills/Scott Perry/David Fizdale-Mike Miller. We’re again in worm-high bar territory, but I’m comfortable with this prediction.
I’m ok with replacing Knox with Kuzma. Here’s to hoping some team in the NBA values Knox
At least if Rose is actually on the payroll, and not dependent on the commissions from his clients, he’s less likely to screw over the Knicks for CAA, right?
It’s incredible this is happening in the last few hours of an important trade deadline.
Meamwhile the deadline is getting nearer and nothing’s moving
There won’t be any trades until Leon Rose is finished reading “10 things to know about the trade deadline” on Buzzfeed.
There is no better argument for breaking up cable companies than James Dolan. If Cablevision could remain a billion dollar company while being run by THE WORST DECISION MAKER OF ALL TIME, then the cable business model is obviously an anti-competitive monopoly.
I’m sure Leon is furiously working the phones to bring in “guys he trusts.”
I like Danny Green a lot but he’s a player for good teams,
Yea gabby green possibly going from possibly winning a ring to lottery team. If the trade goes down
The great thing about sports is that we get insight into the thought processes of billionaires and we get to see how a majority are just unbelievably dumb, and have only succeeded because it is damn near impossible to fail in this country when you start out with a lot of money.
@wojespn
·
1h
Knicks adopting a model that has gained popularity w/ the successes of Bob Myers (Warriors) and Rob Pelinka (Lakers). Rose has been one of the top agents in basketball for years, w/ clients including Joel Embiid, Chris Paul, Devin Booker, Karl-Anthony Towns and Carmelo Anthony.
The thing here is Pelinka was doing a shitty job with the Lakers and they got Lebron because Lebron decided he wanted to play for the Lakers. Bob Myers has done a really good job at Golden State.
Is hiring a GM/POBO, only 3 hours before an event like the trade deadline or the draft, a new record? Can anyone think of a precedent?
How are we supposed to get a deadline deal done if we don’t have a front office together . Why do I follow this team?
I like to think that, given the short time before the deadline, they’re presenting him the trade proposals in Tinder form.
SWIPE RIGHT
SWIPE LEFT
Yeah, unless Pelinka was the one who set up the production of Space Jam 2, then he simply got lucky that LeBron wanted to come to his otherwise floundering franchise. He also lucked out by getting the #2 pick three years in a row.
Then he mortgaged the future for Davis. That story has yet to be written. If the Lakers win a title, that trade will have been worth it. If they don’t, they could be looking at years of mediocrity. Pelinka could easily be fired in disgrace in 2 years.
On the actual deadline…
The Twolves were able to get exactly what they wanted for Covington by involving four teams. We seem to operating as if we can only trade Morris directly to a team that is in LA.
I don’t want Kuzma or Green but I bet someone else does. Why can’t we flip these pieces?
This is fucking insane. It’s pathetic that Dolan leverages the Knicks to get his shitty fucking band good gigs. And it’s insane that we’re basically blindly rushing into this days and hours before the trade deadline. I’m just so sick of this team and I don’t know why I allow them to have any control over my emotional wellbeing.
LeBron joined the Lakers when they were run by Magic. All Pelinka did was trade every asset he had for Davis.
Leon Rose and “World Wide Wes”?
lmao
I thought Phil already got rid of most of the CAA trash that was influencing the basketball decision making like bringing in Curry, Bargs and others?
Dolan is one dumb F.
This franchise is hopeless.
While I agree that the Pelinka narrative is yet to be written, lets at least get the particulars correct. He started in Spring 2017, so he was only there for the last #2 pick and wasn’t part of building any of those teams. They clearly blew the first Lebron offseason (although I personally see Magic’s fingerprints all over that) and paid through the nose for AD but then did a really nice job around the margins in this last offseason. I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s doing a bad job. I would term it mixed at this point.
I can’t believe (which in Knicks land means I actually do believe) that Jim Dolan is letting his desire to be in a musical band affect his decisions about who presides over the team he owns.
I hope we continue to chant “Sell The Team” loud and proud for as long as he continues to own it.
They still don’t have enough shooters and are paper-thin at PG, but yeah, I actually like this year’s roster.
So tomorrow, they should have a lineup of Mitch/Randle/Kuzma/RJ/Russell?
That’s definitely younger, but maybe even more broken.
Maybe? That’s probably the worst defending lineup of the decade if it happens (also Kuzma is overrated as fuck and incapable of passing the ball)
miami deal much different than advertised. they get crowder and get to put $30m of 2020-21 waiters and james johnson salary to memphis. makes more sense for them now.
At what point does Adam Silver just get sick of Dolan’s incompetence? Or is it actually good for the league (or at least for the league’s ecosystem of writers and scorching hot Twitter takes) to have a reliable laughingstock like the Knicks?
CAA is clearly running the show……into the fucking ground
Being a Knicks fan is like Sisyphus – rolling the heavy boulder up the hill and never getting to the top for eternity. Just when you think things will improve, they do not. This shit is Brutal
He didn’t make the Russell or Ingram picks, but he still benefited from having them on the roster as players and assets. Russell allowed him to unload Mozgov, which cleared the space to sign LeBron. Ingram was the centerpiece of the AD trade. So without those assets, plus another #2 pick in Ball, the Lakers would be a lot worse off right now.
As I said, Pelinka’s legacy could go either way. I’m not saying he’s bad. It’s just stupid to hold up the 2019-20 Lakers as an example of why agents make great GMs.
Also, Kuzma sucks and I want no part of his inevitable bad contract.
I’m pretty sure he’s coming here one way or another, though, because he’s the prototypical Knick.
I don’t really get this for Memphis at all with the now reported terms. They paid in assets, future salary commitments and current talent (Crowder was an important part of their team and they’re currently in playoff position), all to get Winslow, who I kind of like but hasn’t established himself at all, can’t stay healthy, and is currently having a lost season. Seems like an extremely hefty price.
Trying to understand what sins I have committed in my past life
3 way to land Gallo still not dead according to woj, but stalled.
Two different weird things I have seen over on social media:
1)Pretty much every national writer thinks this is a good idea, or at least an idea that could work out very well. It’s only those of us down in the trenches who are acting out the Ronny Turiaf gif. Some of them obviously depend on guys like Rose for access, but it’s startling how few LOLKnicks takes I’m seeing from people who are not Knicks fans.
2)Steve Kyler says Perry is not involved in today’s trade talks. So who the bleep is negotiating with other teams right now? I know it probably didn’t make sense to give Perry that authority if he was absolutely a lame duck, but… is Allan Houston out there making deals?
Didn’t they do the same thing when it was Phil?
Are you saying that we need more than one shooter and one defender in a starting lineup? Preposterous!
Leon Rose and Phil Jackson are, quite possibly, the only two people on earth who thought Mega Max Melo was a good idea for anybody involved. Their signatures are, literally, both on it.
That was the single worst document of the past 20 years for this franchise.
And we just can’t seem to divorce ourselves from it.
@78
That was exactly the same reaction when PJax was hired, and look where that got us. National writers seem to be pretty terrible evaluators of GM talent.
And on your second point, that’s bat-shit-insane.
Houston and Warkentien are both CAA guys, so probably one of them
At this point I just hope there’s no thjr type deal before the new guy comes in and we lose Mitch Frank and/or RJ for Kuzma and DLo.
Idk, I think there’s something of a LOLKnicks vibe to national writers endorsing poor choices for our front office because almost anything looks better relative to our previous front office. Kind of a condescending “good for them” feel, if that makes sense.
@81
To be fair, Rose was actually on Melo’s side on this one so he made the right choice for his interests.
From previous thread:
James Dolan is supremely impatient. It’s the core problem. It’s why he’s a hair trigger asshole to fans. It’s why he has to open for the Eagles instead of workshopping his material in smaller venues. It’s why the Knicks ignore the win curve, why they sign pointless vets, why they don’t ever do a rebuild. Why he forced through the Melo trade, ect ect.
Masai drops rumors he’s got an out from his contract this summer. He wants the Knicks job. Dolan can’t wait that long, because there’s three hours till the trade deadline so he has to hire someone right now, even though there’s nothing substantive a new exec can do after, checks watch, two hours and forty-four minutes from now until the end of the season when an effective proven professional will be available.
I guess it’s possible the Knicks could luck into a good season at some point. It happened once before. What a worthless, hopeless team.
Rose also orchestrated the Eddy Curry and Andrea Barfnani trades, so that’s nice.
Fuck this. I’m going to be a Pelicans fan. These guys are going to cap this team out and trade all our future draft picks. You know that’s what’s going to happen.
I’m wondering if the Knicks have something in place, but waiting to officially sign Worldwide and Rose so they can announce and take credit for it.
We can all split into either Pelicans or Grizzlies fans, maybe we can start a KB poster draft for those fanboards
I’m on board with bringing in some Pelicans discussion. Zion and Ingram are both pretty fun young players, and it would be a nice change of pace to discuss a franchise with actual hope for the future.
If this is true, it raises Knicksian dysfunction to new levels.
I think Silver has punted on the Knicks and figured out that Brooklyn’s emergence will cover the league’s need to have a relevant team in NYC.
So what are the odds that, in a couple of weeks, Dolan reveals plans to open for the Eagles (or some other CAA client) again?
That makes an unfortunate amount of sense.
Can we try out the Nets? Much easier to get games.
Eagles play the Garden on Feb. 18th.
I think there’s a bug in the new system. The consultants are saying don’t trade draft picks, while Rose would most likely go after other teams stars and fake stars. How is he going to pay for them without the picks?
DLo to Minnesota for Wiggins and draft picks.
(maybe having no one at the trade desk has some benefits)
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
i can’t believe that i thought for even a millisecond that ujiri was coming here in the 48 hours or so since mills was “fired”/promoted…
no doubt this “move” has been coordinated for a while…
i think bidiong summed up the situation best: fuck this
I am dying to see what happens. What’s the trade deadline? 3 pm?
Clippers cleared a roster spot, might be Trier going into it …..
Adrian Wojnarowski
?
@wojespn
Golden State has agreed to trade D’Angelo Russell to Minnesota for a deal that includes Andrew Wiggins, a 2021 protected first-round pick and a 2022 second-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Warriors will send Jacob Evans and Omari Spellman to Timberwolves too.
Woj mega bomb
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Golden State has agreed to trade D’Angelo Russell to Minnesota for a deal that includes Andrew Wiggins, a 2021 protected first-round pick and a 2022 second-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Warriors will send Jacob Evans and Omari Spellman to Timberwolves too.
Are the warriors nuts!
Idk is Wiggins really worse than D-Lo? And they get picks…
We should have Woj run the Knicks. He has never been a gm and he’s great at his job.
I have hated Wiggins’ game since Kansas and I can’t believe the Warriors are trading for him.
Weren’t we just considering something like this yesterday as too dumb even for Dolans Razor
Rose has plenty of relationships in the NBA and is probably on good terms with most people. That’s a small plus. The critical move from here is bringing in a GM, scouts and assistants that are great basketball people. What good is being able to get a deal done if you aren’t valuing the players correctly and don’t know how to fit them together in a way that makes for a winning basketball team?
I predict that Perry will get hired as GM by some other team and become the basketball equivalent of Belichek leaving NY.
Are we totally sure that Bob Myers is good at his job? Things haven’t looked so sweet there since Jerry West took his talents to LA. Maybe emphasizes that for these non-basketball mind POBOs, you’re only as good as the guys you can get to work for you?
Yahoo Sources: Los Angeles Clippers remain in hot pursuit of New York Knicks forward Marcus Morris.
Please, give us Knicks fans something nice for once!
Russell to Minnesota — dodged a bullet with that one.
Maybe GS is planning to flip Wiggins to us now lol.
Exactly.
Both are nowhere near as good as their salaries but the Warriors are at least getting draft picks to make up for any salary difference. Plus, Wiggins is not good, but he may not be as bad as his reputation. Russell is worse than his “all star” reputation.
Maybe GS thinks it can do for Wiggins what San Antonio did for Rudy Gay.
And put me on Team Pessimism for Leon Rose as POBO. I’d much prefer an intelligent team builder to a (albeit wildly successful) player relationship networker. I’ll hold out some hope this won’t be a disaster, but I’m firmly skeptical this time around.
‘
I predict we will all be begging for Mills to be back in charge in three months
The Clippers are probably calling MSG and getting that “voice mailbox is full” message.
now berman says perry IS running the deadline talks.
we have the rare negotiating advantage of credibly claiming that we have no idea who will be in charge by 3pm so you’d better make a good offer now
I’m sure Rose will do just like Phil and Trump and bring in “only the best people.”
Ha.
Latest rumor is that Dolan is offering Morris to any team that will loan their GM to us for the next hour.
All of us Mets fans are having a Groundhog Day bad dream.
IIRC, the Mets were generally lauded as making an “outside the box” hire with player agent Brodie Van Whatever as GM. He then made a series of bad trades and FA signings (in his defense, he did make one good trade), that included acquiring aging former clients Robinson Cano (and 5 years/$100 million of his contract) and Jed Lowrie (2/$20m). He traded away 10 prospects in his first year or so, 3 or 4 of which (depending upon whose list you look at) are now on baseball’s top 100, inc. blue chipper Jared Kelenic. Despite still having a lot of young talent, they failed to make the playoffs.
The only reason that he hasn’t continued to do that is that the Wilpons can’t really afford to add salary at this time, so they had to let Zack Wheeler go and, instead, sign some cheap vet has beens.
Let’s hope that Leon Rose smells a lot sweeter than Brodie…
I think Clarence Gaines is still looking for a scouting job.
If your boss told you to clean out your desk by 5pm, then asked you to broker a very important merger before you leave, how much effort would you put into that assignment?
Berman:
Best lol of the day so far.
Kevin O’Connor
@KevinOConnorNBA
The Clippers remain aggressive pursuing a trade for Knicks forward Marcus Morris, per league sources. Their offer includes Moe Harkless, two young players, and a draft pick.
OMG, please, please make this happen!
@130
Is the draft pick a 1st rounder, or are they just dangling a 2nd rounder?
But it was bad for Melo too. He put him in a situation where he had a zero percent chance to succeed. And Rose sold it to him as “take the money now and we’ll figure out the trade later”. Thats a craven mentality, myopic, and it’s got Mills-level potential for front-office ineptitude.
Wonder whether Perry is auditioning to stay on as GM?
So how much input is Dolan going to have in determining the GM, assistant GM, executives, and scouts that Rose wants?
Even if by some chance Rose has very good relationships and can hire top flight management to help with the basketball decisions, that requires Dolan to allow Rose to fire who he wants, bring in who he wants, and for Dolan to sign the checks. Fat chance. That has never happened.
@131 don’t know, just copying the tweet
It actually is a good idea for two people involved: ‘Melo and his agent.
Harkless, two young players, and a draft pic could be Harkless, MacGruder, one of their 2-way guys, and their top 55 protected 2nd.
Clippers and Knicks are seriously engaged in talks that would send Marcus Morris to the Clippers, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Two young players potentially involved to New York: Clippers’ Mfiondu Kabengele and Terrence Mann.
Shams says Clips and Knicks are “seriously engaged” in talks for Mook. Including two young guys I haven’t heard of.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
· 1m
Clippers and Knicks are seriously engaged in talks that would send Marcus Morris to the Clippers, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Two young players potentially involved to New York: Clippers’ Mfiondu Kabengele and Terrence Mann.
I don’t know if it’s worth it for taking on Wiggins but that 1RP from Minnesota is pretty good. Top 3 protected next year and unprotected in 2022.
Both Shams and Beer on the Knicks-Clips angle now as well.
We have to consider that what we assumed was an ousting could really just have been a restructuring to make room for Rose.
Ex coaches who become GMs have the problem that they get attached to players and have a hard time making tough decisions about them. I suspect ex-agents will tend to over value players when making deals because as an agent they had to believe in their players great abilities in order to negotiate credibly for them. They also may tend to over value pointzz because that is often what gets paid for in salary negotiations.
Unless we get an 1st for Morris, we should f’n stand pat. We have the most f’ed up FO in sports. It makes the Mets and Jets look good!
So tell me about Mfiondu Kabengele and Terrence Mann. Either worth getting excited about, or is it really just about the pick, whatever it may be?
Kabengele and Terrence Mann. Interesting
Brodie bringing in Cano was such an obvious display of cronyism. The Mets already had Jeff McNeil penciled in at second base for league minimum, they absolutely did not need Cano. McNeil ended up getting shuffled all over the diamond and played well everywhere anyway, and ended up generating 4.6 WAR essentially for free. Cano stunk out the joint and put up 0.8 WAR, and is now on the books at an exorbitant salary for four more years.
This is why you don’t hire agents to run your team. Cano was Brodie’s former client and their relationship was way too close. He made zero sense for the Mets in terms of salary and positional need. The only reason he ended up in Flushing was because he was Brodie’s buddy.
@144
That’s totally wrong. Marcus Morris has 0 value to the future success of this team. Even trading him for a future 2RP would be better than keeping him.
kabengele is sort of interesting. he’s dikembe’s nephew i think. back up fsu, late growth late bloomer type already 22. but in theory has modern game with very big shot blocking wingspan and wants to be a 3pt shooter.
@143
Thank you for your contributions to the forum.
That’s why it’s critical we get a real “basketball” GM.
@148 – Every trade I see has him + one of our kids going and us getting squat. I’m more worried about the rest of the trade.
Just an fyi, it’s Terance Mann. Googling Terrence Mann will take you to some actor.
NBA Terance Mann is from Brooklyn.
I just did a quick look on bref and didn’t find much to excite me. Mann is a 23 year old rookie taken in the 2nd round with 242 NBA minutes. Kabengele is a 22 year old rookie center who has played 44 minutes this year. They were both on Florida State last year.
Essentially, these are the exact guys LA want to give up.
Morris is an asset now and will remain one in the future. The value of that asset will be dependent on his salary and how he plays.
Maybe we can throw Knox in and get their 1rp.
This smells like a fleecing. What are the odds that a 2nd round pick becomes an NBA caliber starter? It’s a long-shot. A bird in the hand….
BTW, Morris isn’t even good, but without getting a 1st, it’s a waste of time.
I think Kabengele and Mann are both supposed to be pretty promising prospects. I’m guessing the hangup is that LAC wants to give up a DET 2nd rather than their own 2020 first if they’re going to include both these guys.
Kabengele was a late 1RP in last years draft and seems to have a little bit of potential as a guy who can both bang inside and make an occasional three. He has barely played for the Clips but he shot for good percentages in college at Florida State and also got lots of blocks. He’s also Dikembe Mutombo’s nephew. Decent prospect IMO.
Mann was Kabengele’s teammate at FSU and doesn’t really look like much of a prospect.
@156 You have to keep in mind this is a 4 month rental we’re trading. You can’t expect the world here.
Per the Athletic LA:
Dude – just get that done and walk away. You’re not getting Shamet.
Trading with the Clippers and not coming out with a 1 would be absurdly incompetent.
Its so amazing how we keep getting things wrong. You have historically poor performance on a certain business. You have a job opening in the lead position on said business. You fill that position with someone who has both experience and a track record of success in said position. HOW FREAKIN HARD IS THIS! Even if Leon Rose turns out to be our great, this was still poor decision-making.
If the deal includes Kabengele and the 2020 1RP, that’s like getting two late 1RPs for Morris. Plus the other stuff in there. That’s a good deal, they should take that it offered.
Remember that if we do a 1 for 3 we have to drop 2 players.
@160 They should do that deal.
Ha – the Lakers took Kuzma off the table. This is a good day already!
Shams says Kuzma is off the table from the Lakers at which point they have nothing to offer basically. Sounds like it will be the Clippers.
Yeah, if they waive Bobby Portis and Wayne Ellington that might be the last straw for me
Riley!!!!!!!!!
Turns a pile of crap, bad decisions, and bad contracts into a solid team of playoff tested players in the east, some good young players for upside next year and the long term rebuild, and future cap space to take the next step.
Are there any questions?
Yeah, just take that Clippers offer. I mean, wait a bit to see if something else shows up, but the pick alone is something at least. Not sure whether Kabengele or Mann offer anything, but they couldn’t hurt either.
The Russell – Wiggins trade seems ok for both sides. Russell is better and more promising than Wiggins and has the connection with Towns, but the first rounder they sent is likely to be very good. The Warriors get to keep Wiggins and see what happens, but if he keeps his current level of production I doubt they can flip him in the future…
Just fucking take it and count your blessings. I’m getting Rose/Rubio vibes.
Hubert, I’m not so pessimistic about Kabengele. He got pretty good draft reports and at least two team’s blogs wanted to get him (Atlanta and Charlotte). He was advertised as a defensive force but actually has been a good scorer in limited minutes, shooting five for ten on threes and 44 percent or so overall.
From his stats Mann seems to be good at defense and not much else. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up being like Ron Baker.
161
It’s not about shamet, sound like it’s about leverage. This is the 11th hour, we’ve been patient.
@170
Well there’s the question that the pile of crap and the bad contracts were in place because Riley himself made those bad decisions, but I guess they’re a contender now with 36 year old Andre Iguodala so it’s all fine.
The Knicks had months to figure this out and the best offer on the table for one of the best wings available at the deadline is flotsam, jetsam, and a pick in the late 20s.
As said by others, Morris is a rental. Getting a 1st round pick for him, even in the late 20’s is fine, and maybe one of those young guys pan out. Take it and run.
Hubert
That’s a great haul!
We’re talking about an expiring 30 year old with a career WS48 of .090. Kabengele isn’t nothing. This is a heist and we should do it right this second so we can still see if there’s a small market for Harkless.
Morris really isn’t worth much more than a late 1st
A pick in the late 20’s does give us another bite at the draft apple, though. Since we routinely waste our marquee lottery picks, having a fallback pick that might turn into something is nice.
Yup, that’s a nice package for Morris. Worth saying also that if it’s true that Kuzma is off the table it’s not clear at all what leverage we have at this point other than our (sadly credible) threat to just keep him and give him an awful contract this offseason. Unless there’s a mystery team out there the Clips are bidding against themselves. We should take the deal before their offer gets lower.
I would politely remind you that 48 hours ago Morris was off the table
To me it’s totally hilarious kuz is off the table. Big bluff
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Knicks are finalizing a deal to send Marcus Morris to the Clippers for Moe Harkless and other assets, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
. Sides still working on exact additional players/picks.
I don’t know how y’all think a guy who will now start on one of the 3 best teams in the NBA is worth that little in a market that has seen sellers get paid.
Rental shmental. Aroldis Chapman was a rental and he yielded Gleyber Torres. This guy can put the Clips over the top. Acquiring him (and keeping him away from the Lakers) should have a real cost.
I’m not saying don’t pull the trigger. But shame on them for not working on this longer and getting more teams involved.
Lets see those final terms, but this is good work. Now lets find Bullock a new team before 3 also.
Kabengele is raw and kind of a long shot but if he pans out he’d fit nicely next to Mitch. He’s sort of like a Bismack Biyombo who can shoot. Like Biyombo his downside is that he really can’t dribble or pass, but the shooting touch and shot blocking ability seem real.
If we get a 1st, I’m fine with the move. We would drop Ellington and Portis. If we can trade either of those for 2nd rounders and a salary to cut, that makes it a better move.
Kebengele is 22.5 years old, couldn’t crack the starting lineup at Florida State, and has played 44 NBA minutes.
He’s a full year older than Frank, who y’all are ready to move on from because he’s had enough chances.
Yeah they need to take that trade yesterday. Was hoping fo a higher pick but this ain’t bad.
Whether Knicks won or lost this deal hinges on whether they get Clips 2020 1RP or not. Perry is having a staring contest with The Logo as we speak – he better not blink.
Cross sport comparisons are fairly ridiculous to begin with, but Aroldis Chapman (literally the best reliever in baseball at the time) and Marcus Morris (Marcus Morris) are, um, not the same.
I watch with a fascination not unlike rubbernecking at an accident.
Still, I hope no one gets hurt. 🙂
cavs trading for drummond is a shocker
Cleveland is trading for Andre Drummond per Woj.
You’re right but there is no reason a rental that could put a team over the top shouldn’t be valued because he’s a rental. Chapman was just the first guy I could think of.
Does LA not get his non-bird rights? If so, he’s not even necessarily a rental.
Wow, Cavs getting Drummond for basically nothing.
Port is is perfect 4 Houston
Yeah, but what’s the point exactly?
i guess detroit saw atlanta pay so little for capela on a moderate contract and actually got scared drummond would opt in?
@161
If that’s the trade I don’t really know what else there is to talk about. Get it done and get on the phone to sell of any/all of our other free agent signings plus DSJr.
Why the hell is Cleveland trading for Drummond?
Speaking of Mitch, did y’all see he signed with Klutch? Expect a nightmare restricted free agency.
Something is better than nothing. Take it, whatever it is.
with no morris around for the end of our games – watching randall trying to spin and bludgeon his way to the rim a dozen times in a row is gonna be very not fun to watch…although, with only 15 wins so far this year – things haven’t exactly been a party anyways…
amazing that we have 7 or so expiring contracts on our roster – and, we haven’t been able to move any of them so far…
well looks like we’re moving one -, if that’s the case, i wonder who’ll we’ll waive to make room for one of the young guys we got back…
Sounds like Mook deal is done
The trade, as discussed, is being announced. Morris for Harkness, Kabengele, Mann + 2020 1st rounder
Yeah, but if he averages 20 and 10 on the season, someone might be dumb enough to give us a first rounder for him.
So now I have to root for the Clippers to get upset in the first round….
That’s something!
With Marcus Morris deal done, worth noting that Knicks had still been considering potential Bobby Portis deals earlier this afternoon, per sources.
Bonus: I feel one iota better about the Porzingis trade… couldn’t have gotten this first rounder without the cap cleared in the Porzingis trade.
Seems like a solid return for nothing, and we didn’t get that fuccboi kuzma so I’m happy
Also, the Leon Rose deal also looks like it got sealed.
Sure, he played off the bench at FSU but he was fourth on the team in minutes last year and was productive in a tough conference. Shot .374 from 3PT in two seasons, averaged 2.5 blocks per 40, rebounded great, shot well from the line. Had a .242 WS/40 last year. He’s not a blue chip prospect but I like his chances of making it as a two-way player better than most of our young guys. He’s the kind of player we should be acquiring in deals like this. He can do some things.
It’s killing me that we don’t know whether the Knicks actually got the Clippers’ first rounder.
Now Berman says “multiple picks” and no Kabengele.
sounds like first rounder yes but young players no
Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
· 3m
Still not officially done but sounds like it’s multiple picks and no prospects in last version of deal, per source, for Morris.
@216 – Yep, as per Marc Berman:
@214. He did actually lead his team in scoring even though he didn’t start and thus is a prospect touted for his defense. That is intriguing.
They had at least $20 million in cap space already without the Porzingis trade.
I like that better, if it’s multiple picks. I’m on the edge of my seat. If we get a 1st + other picks, kudos to Scott Perry!
It’s all relative.
I’m glad they got something for him.
But Morris is arguably the most impactful pickup of any contender and this trade looks like a steal for the Clips.
The Knicks should have punted on the season a long time and worked out some multi team trade where they got a haul similar to what Minny got for Covington. Instead they pussyfooted until 3 days ago, fucked around with their organizational structure, and locked in on trading directly with two teams who had very few assets to offer.
Shams says deal with Clippers is done, just finalizing details.
Still 18 minutes
That Morris deal looks pretty solid.
The first rounder is another asset Rose can use to acquire Chris Paul in the offseason. Randle, RJB, Frank, Knox, and two first rounders should do the trick.
🙂
Multiple picks could mean two seconds and no first, though.
Looks like there’s a second round pick being added instead of players.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
1m
Also worth noting for Knicks going forward: there’s a distinct possibility of Knicks entering buyout conversations with veteran Wayne Ellington if he isn’t moved by deadline, per SNY sources.
Didn’t want me to feel one iota better, huh? 🙂
Anyway, KP trade aside, they eventually turned some cap space into a pick. Their inability to do so over the summer had driven people crazy.
The Clippers only have their own 2020 second round pick, which will be almost a worthless pick since it will be like #57 overall. They do have Detroit’s 2RP in 2021, that’s the pick I hope the Knicks get if it’s a second rounder. Their 2022, 2024 and 2026 1RPs are all gone.
I love how NBA Twitter is most concerned about what these moves mean for Devin Booker.
It’s a little quiet.
Too quiet with 10 minutes to go.
You have to believe that Bob Myers has a brain tumor or something. Russell isn’t good (definitely not a max) but the only way this makes sense is if they plan to trade Steph, Klay and Draymond for 10+ first rounders and young guns and ride the lottery wave until Wiggins is traded for more as an expiring.
Oh, and somehow that’s still not worse than hiring a fucking CAA agent to run a fucking franchise. Prepare to see a lot of overpaid veterans on player-friendly deals.
Fuck.
I hope we dump Portis at the last minute
Detroit 2nd in 2021 would be real nice
Come on Perry. Show us that you’re a good GM and extract something else from the mercs.
Also reports Knicks are talking about buying out Ellington. Is Iggy on the way? He’s tearing up the G-league.
All the talk was that the Warriors wanted to move on from DLo after half a season because they wanted to improve their luxury tax position, but they took back more money, so really they just didn’t want to have him on the team. Bullet dodged.
If they are getting any players they want keep from the Clippers, they may have make roster space.
What was the rush for Leon Rose again? Why can’t the Knicks exercise prudence in important matters? I’m still holding onto hope that we dump Ellington and Portis for a flaming bag of dog shit in the next 5 minutes.
With Morris gone, who’s the new starting three? Harkless, Knox, or RJB?
I’d hope RJB moves to open up playing time for Frank and Trier at the two. Knox is so ill-suited to guard wings. Harkless seems like a waste of time to give any time to. So, surely they’ll start Knox or Harkless!
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
· 2m
The Clippers, Knicks and Wizards have agreed to a three-team trade that will land Marcus Morris and Isaiah Thomas with the Clippers, league sources tell ESPN. Jerome Robinson will join the Wizards, Moe Harkless and a 2020 first-round pick to the Knicks.
Ummmmmm. It’s looking like a 3-team deal and the Knicks might be getting the Wizards 1st rounder:
Welp, I liked getting some young flyers in addition to the pick, but still OK.
I wonder who’s first round pick we’re getting?
Wait. Did the Wizards come away from this deal with more than us?
That was a whole rollercoaster to do what should have happened all along
I think it has to be the Wizard’s 1st rounder. I can’t see why else they would be in the deal
Sounds like it’s just Harkless and the 1st. Disappointing given the earliest reports, but basically ends up with exactly what I expected all along. For once we managed to not mess up something incredibly simple. I will chalk that up as a win.
Stop getting me irrationally excited that it’s the Wizards pick. That kind of stuff doesn’t happen for us.
Jerome Robinson’s numbers are pretty bad but he’s 22 and only played 800 NBA minutes. Why wouldn’t we want him?
Looks like it’s just Harkless and the first. I wanted Kabengele, but this is still a great outcome. I don’t want to hang the “didn’t do anything unfathomably stupid banner” just yet, but so far so good.
It’s not even a three team trade unless it’s the Wiz first round pick, but how could that be possible? It must be massively protected. IT doesn’t even make that much money.
The Wizards didn’t give up a lottery pick for Jerome Robinson, so it has to be the Clippers’ first. So that’s it? Just the same deal that has been available for weeks? I mean, that’s fine, but it’s weird.
Wait, the Wizards upcoming lottery pick? No way.
It would be good if it was the Wizards. Wonder if they put protections on it?
Press reports have it as the Clips 2020 1st
Berman is saying the Knicks get a 1st and a 2nd now:
I mean, it would be nice if the Knicks also got the Wiz’s 2nd round pick in addition to the Clips’ first.
If so, they’d have two of the first 8 or so picks in the 2nd…
Doesn’t look like the Wiz have any of their own seconds for the next few years. They have the better of Chicago and Memphis 2nd round picks this year though. I bet it will be that one. That’s a nice little extra morsel.
There’s literally no way Washington is giving up a 1RP in this deal, obviously we’re getting the LAC pick.
Yeah, that’d be swell. It’d also be an odd cost for Jerome Robinson.
The Wiz have Chicago’s 2nd round pick this year.
Now they’re saying there’s a 2nd rounder too again. Lol
Getting a late 1st and an early 2nd for Morris would be pretty nice. If so, kudos to Perry.
Sounds like we also got draft rights to Issuf Sanon, whom the Wizards took in the second round in 2018. 20-year-old Ukranian combo guard.
At least they seem to have gotten a deal done and didn’t do the Phil thing where the paperwork didn’t make it to the league office on time.
I don’t understand why Washington was involved in the Knicks deal. It seems like two separate deals.
I mean if it came down to Kuzma or a Clips 1st rounder I’m rolling the dice with the pick
A lot of expiring contracts not moved.
This is what I’m reading about the 2nd pick:
Mills is gone, they made a good to very good trade of Mook, and they won’t be giving Mook 4 years/$85 million this summer. This is a very good day.
Okay, so it’s Harkless, a first from L.A. and the rights to a former second round pick.
Fair enough. It’s about what we thought we should get for Mook, so I’m fine with it.
Morris and Harkless’ salaries weren’t a perfect match, so the Clips had to send out Jerome Robinson, as well. We had no open roster spots, so a third team had to be involved.
and yet, i’m not getting that “very good day” feeling…
i’m getting the feeling that cows are falling from the sky, and, one of them is about to land on me…
IN WES WE TRUST
Yeah but Leon Rose
Berman trying to suggest the Knicks might try to get Morris in free agency later. lol
Gentlemen, we got him (Issuf Sanon)
That Sanon guy is a stud. I watched a Youtube video of him, and he made every shot!
🙂
alsep73,
Thanks. Makes sense now.
Plus we got Detroit’s 2023 2nd round pick. We stay winning
Well, we got our late 1st round pick for Morris. Now we are only 3 years away from being 2-3 years away from being good. I hope they use these excess picks to get someone that can play basketball.
I’ll be able to sleep tonight. The Clippers 1st, a 20-year old Euro-stash and Harkness. Not bad. And let’s resign Mook in the offseason 🙂
Also Trey Burke getting waived.
That’s selling Sanon a little short. He just turned twenty at the end of October and was considered by ESPN as a “strong draft and stash candidate” in the 2018 NBA draft.
KnicksNation
@KnicksNation
The Knicks will have 7 first-round picks in the next 4 years.
You can either package those for a superstar or simply build organically.
The Knicks are not in as bad of shape as the media makes them out to be
I don’t want to re-sign Morris, but remember the idea that he’d hate us forever if we traded him to a contender for a few months? Well…
Marcus Morris
@MookMorris2
·
11m
They gotta dog in Hollyhood @LAClippers let’s gets it
Marcus Morris
@MookMorris2
·
17m
Thank You NewYork! Nothing but love on this side!
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
1m
No other deals believed to be in the works for the Knicks.
Well, I’m pretty happy. Getting a decent asset for Morris is a good deal, and that’s all they really needed to do. They probably explored other trades and nothing really came up, and the Russell thing really seemed like the Warriors using the Knicks for leverage and not much else.
Pretty good deadline overall.
I think you guys are so happy we got anything for Morris that you’re willing to overlook how badly we got fleeced.
Minnesota took Robert Covington, who is not as good as Morris this season, and turned him into two first round picks that currently project to be 16 and 23.
Marcus Morris is the most impactful player to join a contender this year we netted the 26th pick and a flier. That’s a shit job by Perry, any way you slice it.
(It seems like LAC acquires Morris’ non-bird rights, too, so there’s no reason they can’t re-sign him this summer.)
I still don’t totally understand why we couldn’t find something for Bullock but we appear to have done an obvious good thing and no stupendously dumb bad things. We take those every time.
Hubert, Covington has 2 more years left after this one on a bargain contract. You get that right? It’s not a valid comparison no matter how many times you bring it up.
Dude, Covington is younger, has better career numbers (and is thought to have value beyond them), and is signed to a great contract for two more seasons. These are not analogous situations!
Okay, then our to-do list for the rest of the day:
* Buy out Portis
* Buy out Ellington
* Maybe buy out Taj? (Or, a least, make clear his starting days are over, and probably his tie as a notable part of the rotation.)
* Promote Iggy and Wooten to the main squad.
* Make RJ the starting 3 when he returns from the injury (sounds like it’s soon).
* Make Knox the backup PF, Wooten the backup center, and Iggy the backup 3.
* Start a Frank/Payton or Frank/DSJ backcourt for a while, and see what happens.
* Play. The. Kids.
Houston also needed to dump salary to avoid lux tax. Morris was worth a 1st and probably wouldn’t fetch much more than that. Houston definitely wasn’t trading for him, so I don’t get the point of comparing the two.
Anyone upset needs to find an example of a better return for someone who is:
1) Expiring
2) On the wrong side of 30
3) Almost exactly average by every metric
lol! we got the right to swap firsts with the clips in 2021. chutzpah, baby.
edit: maybe we can swap the dallas pick?
Y’all gonna like this….
The Det 2nd rounder might be the 2023.
I’m guessing we only buyout Ellington unless there’s someone we’re looking to add. The Knicks will rollover Portis to the offseason or at least keep him until the buyout deadline.
Makes sense to keep Bullock, probably wasn’t a huge market for him and we can try moving him again next year. If bringing in Wes & Rose prevented us from moving him for a 1st, then I’m pissed but I’m not sure he fetches that.
Yeah, this trade is fine. Now. buy out or release Taj, Ellington, and Portis? Give them a chance to hook up with a contender, create goodwill (FWIW), etc.
Including on the Mavs pick? Kind of reads that way — “a” first round pick.
Lol, watchout Clips!!! DeRozan/Morris/Drummond are coming!!!
But seriously, it’s a smart move. Unlikely to come to anything but nobody pegged the Warriors as the worst team in the league this year.
@303. Good catch. If the swap rights include the Dallas pick there’s potentially some value there. I would assume that’s the case because otherwise I can’t see the teams even bothering to negotiate it it’s so unlikely to occur.
much better
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
9m
In Marcus Morris deal, Knicks got Moe Harkless, 2020 Clippers first rounder, the right to swap a 2021 first rounder with Clippers, the rights to Issuf Sanon and a Clippers 2021 second rounder via Detroit.
In a vacuum, the Marcus Morris signing and subsequent trade and the re-working of the original Reggie Bullock deal to make that work almost looks like savvy GMin’. Outside of that vacuum, we have all the other unforgivable preseason moves still cluttering up the roster, namely Portis, Taj, and Ellington.
While I hate their games, Randle is a market-value deal and Payton is a value signing at a position of need, so not as bad. Both should be movable in the off-season.
Portis is the real head-shaker.
Wiz beat writer Fred Katz:
2Fast2Frank?
@305 – I’ve gotta agree.
We give up nothing but cash to sign Mook and flip him for a player, a 1st, a 2nd, a Euro-stash and a decent (not good) player. Sounds like a win to me.
According to Steve Popper, the swap rights do not include the Dallas #1.
https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/1225524028535955458
I have to say, go Scott Perry. He gets good value in the deals he makes. I hope our new PBO keeps him on.
That was a deal-breaker for the Clippers? LOLOL. Wonder if Perry even thought about it.
And I hope the Clippers clean LA’s clock in the playoffs.
Now if we didn’t rush to get a POBO it really would have been a great day.
And the decent (not good) player is an expiring contract. So we don’t take on any bad contract dollars.
Would have been really nice to get swap rights on the Mavs pick ….
Guys, it’s a good deal. We could mayyyybe have had more, but in the end I like what we got. If one of our guys really breaks through, with that treasure trove of picks you can get a star.
@311 – Yeah, what was the point?
All, For your viewing pleasure Issuf Sanon Fiba highlights
Looks fast, very aggressive in the paint and can drop a 3-pt shot.
swap rights should include any pick that we own… and we own the mavs pick…
am i missing something here?
dolan’s press release literally says “i am not selling the team but”. so did one loud msg section on a shitty wednesday night actually get steve mills fired? fucking heroes
Sanon has no left hand.
That’s not a bad haul at all. The pick swap is kind of funny, but who knows, maybe Kawhi and Paul George get in a fist fight and simultaneously tear their ACLs.
Imagine if we had been doing this kind of thing the last four or five years!