Outside of Carmelo Anthony, Bernard King is really the last time that the Knicks had a young wing with as much promise as RJ Barrett (and King wasn’t even that young, as he was 26 by the time he joined the Knicks, but guys obviously entered the league later back in those days), so I guess it’s good to get them together.
From Marc Berman:
After Thursday’s practice, Barrett sat for several minutes with King, who has been invited for the second straight year to training camp. King, the Brooklyn-born scoring machine, will be with the club until Saturday.
“It’s obvious to me he wants to be an outstanding player,’’ said King, wearing a vintage Knicks jacket. “I shared with him, the key is hard work. I said ‘Hey, when I was an all-pro, I’d go in on Sunday. And nobody was in the gym but me. So I was constantly working on my game.’ ”
King also had the following to say about Barrett:
“I didn’t see the summer,’’ the 62-year-old King said. “Obviously I saw him play in college. One of the things I told him [was]: When I came into the league I couldn’t handle the ball and I excelled at that at one point. And I didn’t have a jump shot beyond 15 feet. I developed those aspects of my game. In any profession, you have to build your skill sets. He’s obviously a tremendous talent. He’s going to have a great career. He’ll continue to grow as any young player would.”
Nice to hear.
290 replies on “NY Post: Knicks great returns to drop some knowledge on RJ Barrett”
Despite the overload of power forwards in the summer, I think we have a pretty good group of young guys. Smith Jr, Ntilikina, Barrett, Robinson, Randle, and Trier isn’t a bad place to be in terms of going young. We’re not pinning any hopes to Ron Baker or Langston Galloway, and I think that counts for something. I do think RJ is the guy who will lead us to the promise land, and he seems to have the temperament and family background (his mom is from Brooklyn and he still has family there, plus his dad is a former pro) to be a success long term. I’m actually excited for this team this year. Maybe that gets stomped out of me by Christmas, but there are multiple reasons to watch every game:
1) Will Mitch be the top 20 player his stats suggest he’s close to becoming?
2) Will Julius Randle take on the mantle the way Amar’e did back in 2010-2011?
3) Will Dennis Smith Jr and Frank Ntilikina begin to realize their potential?
4) Is Allonzo Trier really a 6’5” Lou Williams?
5) What is RJ Barrett really?
6) Is Fizdale a snake oil salesman?
This is a pivotal season for the organization for sure. I’m excited to see where the chips fall.
Langston Galloway was better at age 23 than Trier was (although that’s not saying a whole lot). Lou Williams passed the ball and didn’t turn it over as much as Iso-Zo. When Lou was 23 he was entering his 5th season in the NBA and was a legitimately good offensive player. Trier seems to have the toolkit to be a good offensive player but he hasn’t put the tools to effective use yet. If RJ turns into a good player and one of these guards becomes average+ we’re in fine shape as long as we don’t do anything stupid in the next two years.
The point I was trying to make is that Langston Galloway was maybe the 2nd or 3rd most important young guy on the team, while this year we have Smith Jr, Ntilikina, Knox, Barrett, and Robinson ahead of Trier in terms of importance. Even a guy like Brazdeikis could be argued as ahead of Trier. In 2015 it was…Galloway, Shved, and Lance Thomas.
I’d still take Galloway on this team, for the record. I’m just saying we’re not pinning our hopes to a Galloway level prospect like Trier the way we would have back in 2016. We’re in a healthy place as a franchise, and that’s kind of all you can hope for until Sam Presti or Masai Ujiri have a divine visitation and realize they need to take over the Knicks.
this is a pivotal year for a whole lot of guys but the biggest unknowns in terms of age and career trajectory come from….
1) RJ – rookie years matter and how well he does and whether or not he can establish that he can hold his own will determine what sort of path he will take…. kp passed(somewhat)… frank did not… knox did not…. rj now is the most important knick to watch…. if he’s good then we have a shot to be very good very quickly….. if not then we’re probably not gonna be doing anything for another long while…
2) Randle – some might disagree on how good he is already but he probably has the best chance to be pretty good out of the non-mitch group…. and if he delivers then he probably will be a foundational piece…. or trade fodder for a foundational piece…. either way there’s real talent here and he’s at an age where that promise will either show up or not…. i think it already has but there could be more here…. and if it is we got a steal….
3) Smith – if you look at his numbers… he made some decent improvements over his rookie year…. most of that improvement just got masked by a dip in his ft% but he is absolutely making progress…. and i think he’s on the cusp of something which might become obvious as soon as this year….
mitch is kind of boring to talk about… he’s gonna be good and it’s gonna look a lot like last year except you should probably expect some regression from his shooting and block rates…. frank and knox are gonna get some buzz from whoever is left on their bandwagon but i imagine it will empty by the all star break….. payton is another one to watch as i don’t think we’ve seen his best ball yet but it may be just as likely that we have….
I think that Randle is the guy that Steve Mills (and Steve Mills alone) thought Tim Hardaway Jr would be. The key stat to watch with Randle is where his 3 point shooting ends up landing at. His defense may never improve beyond passable, but if he gets that 3 point shooting to a good level in terms of volume and percentage, something like 38% on 4.5 3PA a game, then he’s the kind of guy you can sell to a Giannis in 2021. I think Randle is already who we wanted KP to be as an offensive player in terms of his production. I just want the defense to be better than “this guy cannot play down the stretch of big games.”
As far as Knox goes, I punted on him maybe in January or February. He has no ball skills whatsoever and is a horrible defender. If he develops a handle that’s one thing, but I’d much rather have the 36th pick in the draft to get a senior out of the ACC than wait around for Knox to settle in as some version of Wilson Chandler.
RJ Barrett is a guy I’m all in on as this team’s franchise player, but I’m really expecting his secondary stats to lead the way for him in year one. If he’s shooting 35% from 3 and 75% from the stripe you guys will never stop hearing from me about how he’s the future of the team.
Smith Jr and Ntilikina are probably coin flips at this point. Hopefully we get good years out of them and they develop some sort of synergy.
I don’t understand the comparison. Surely you don’t mean playstyle.
@6 I mean as a player who could develop into a good starter/wing man to a star player on an eventual contender. Mills gave TH2 that contract because he thought “hey this guy can develop into a borderline all star and should fit really well next to Porzingis.” Julius Randle is already a borderline all star by conventional stats and most voices around the league feel that way about him (offensively, at least). At the time of signing with the Knicks, both were viewed as players who belong in a franchise nucleus by the front office, and that’s the comparison I’m trying to make. They both got paid to be young leaders on the court, but TH2 sucked and Julius Randle doesn’t suck.
Carrying this over from the last thread, where it may have been swallowed up by non-hoops talk. Courtesy of Begley, Fizdale on changes to the offense this season, including the idea that there will actually be an offensive system this year:
Probably not, but sure, aim high.
Amar’e had played in 52 playoff games by the time he arrived in NY. Randle has played in 0. He may be a long way off the Amar’e leadership curve.
It’s possible they already have.
This sounds like the title of a rejected clickbait article on buzzfeed.
Really young.
The poor snake oil salesmen that were really hard workers and truly believed in their product really get a bad name now, thanks to a few bad seeds and Fizdale.
nice 🙂
yeah, bullshit shouldn’t sell so well in the big apple…doesn’t matter how affable you may be…fiz has three more years on his deal – at this moment, i wouldn’t even give him a 50/50 chance to finish out his contract…
i suck at sports history stuff – who has been the best native new yorker to play as a knick? is it bernard?
what does this translate too? more penetration from our guards? more post play?
https://i.redd.it/ogy1rm9iewg31.jpg
Unicorn on steroids?
Starbury’s first two seasons with the Knicks were very good, but I guess King had like 4 or 5 good years. Maybe Mason, but we don’t have reliable enough defense stats to know (and probably never will).
Your arms are going to be bigger while you’re doing curls then when you’re playing a basketball game, but he should be bulked up after not playing for a year. Maybe those arms will keep his legs from getting fucked up.
How often do they test? The NBA tests every player at random between 0-4 times per year (0-3 times for WNBA players). Tests only occur at practices and games; none are conducted during the offseason.
How many athletes get tested? Every player is eligible, though not all will be tested in a given season. Rookies have a higher probability (and frequency) of testing than veterans.
What kinds of tests do they run? Urine tests only.
What do they test for? Steroids, related hormones, stimulants, masking agents, diuretics, cocaine, opiates, PCP, LSD, and marijuana.
DRed beat me to it. My leg injury meant a lot of time on the weight bench and doing pull-ups.
If he were still skinny after a year and a half of intensive rehab, I’d question him and everyone around him.
I would assume it means more penetration. Though Mudiay and Burke both went to the rim a lot last year. It just didn’t result in many opportunities for other guys, because it was Mudiay and Burke doing the penetrating.
story time…
growing up i was a big fan of bodybuilding…i remember staying in atlanta for a while and stopping in to lee haney’s gym a few times…
i’ll never forget working out and noticing some huge dude sitting on a bench and balling like a baby…i must have had a puzzled look on my face cuz some dude looked over and told me it was no big deal, dude was just “juiced”…
geo when mickey rourke finally remakes forrest gump about a guy who was present for none of history’s most defining moments but did affably witness every gritty little outtake of the universe’s b roll you are gonna get paid like ron baker at the little table
Has to be. Mark Jackson is probably #2.
i don’t know milo…most days i just feel like rosie perez: I’m filled with more useless goddamn information than any human being on this fucking planet!
Carmelo Anthony was born in Brooklyn and spent the first eight years of his life in New York. Did any native New Yorker have a better tenure as a Knick than Melo? He made the playoffs every year until Phil Jackson pinch-posted his career into oblivion.
Melo’s Baltimore.
Melo moved to Baltimore, though. He lived in Red Hook until he was 8, which makes him a New York native.
I used to lift at a powerlifting gym outside of New Haven run by one of those square-headed, seemingly bald-since-birth guys who’s built like a Viking. I was always a fitness guy, not a competitor, so I would gawk at the parade of ridiculously jacked (i.e. juiced) guys looking to live fast and die young, the owner chief among them. I think he had a 650 lbs. squat or something like that — in his forties. I swear to god that gym owner looked like he was about to cry half the time I saw him. 6’4″, 300 lbs. and the face of a frazzled toddler who’s just been told he can’t have a second serving of string cheese.
I have zero first-hand experience with steroids, because fuck that, but I’m told that you can do them without the enormous mood swings if you approach it like an actual scientist rather than as a frat bro. If you have a consultant with extensive education on male hormones, you can get most of the positive benefits without all of the short-term fuckery. Not that I’d want to do it (hGH would be nice in a decade or two) but I suspect that there are more users than you’d expect, even in pro leagues with testing regimens.
If he gets hurt, he can always star in Rocky 10.
I was thinking about the Westbrook/Harden tandem and how I really don’t like the way the Rockets play and the direction the team took last year.
IMO, the ideas is to play team oriented defensive basketball kind of like they played the year before last. The idea is to find players with complimentary skill sets so 1 + 1 = 2.2
Westbrook and Harden don’t seem like an ideal fit to me. But then I realized something. It may not matter. They are kind of like 1.5 + 1.5 = 2.8
2.8 is a still a lot better than 2.2 even though I still don’t like the direction they’ve taken.
By the way, if you’ve seen KP in pre season interviews he clearly got bigger, stronger, and more defined. I’d estimate he’s near 240 or 245. His chest, arms,. and shoulders are all bigger. The one thing I haven’t seen is his legs, which may be the most critical thing.
New Yorker Knicks:
1) Bernard King
2) Stephon Marbury
3) Mark Jackson
4) Kyle O’Quinn
5) Joakim Noah
6) Taj Gibson
7) Carmelo Anthony
Off topic, but for any people interested in poker, this article about a cheating scandal in poker is pretty amazing. Well, the scandal is pretty amazing and the article is quite solid.
https://www.theringer.com/2019/10/4/20899034/poker-cheating-mike-postle-stones-gambling-hall-twitch-no-limit-holdem-sacramento-veronica-brill
Ah, you know who else was a solid New Yorker Knick? Rod Strickland.
@30 that’s a good list donnie…I wasn’t really sure though if there were any players from the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s that I wasn’t aware of…I didn’t start following the knicks until bernard started going off…
I wasn’t really thinking of their career performance – just how they played as a knick…
totally forgot mason was from new york – he’d be number two on my list, I loved watching him bring the ball up the court…
I don’t feel like looking up his bio, but, I don’t think of carmelo as a new yorker, always thought of him as a baltimore guy…otherwise yeah, he’d be up towards the top of list…
you know, I don’t really remember marbury playing well as a knick…checked his numbers, he seemed to be on a steady decline after just a few years…he just didn’t have his head on right back then…we had/have a lot of coaching turnover, which usually is a sign shitty ownership, that didn’t help his situation here…
kyle was a fun player, but, I think the players around him were just so terrible that it made him look okay…
I did not know michael jordan was born in new york…
yeah melo was born there…still not putting him on my list though…
dick maguire was the guy from the 50’s/60’s that played for the knicks…
okay then:
1). bernard
2). mase
3). jackson
4). maguire
honorable mention: rod strickland… I remember him being good as a rookie…I forget why he left…
Yeah, but Joakim Noah was from HELLLLL’S KITCHENNNN!!!!!
Tiny Archibald
Richie Guerin
You beat me to Richie Guerin. I mean, come on! The dude’s in the Hall of Fame! Very few Knicks have made the Hall of Fame (especially outside the two championship teams).
So yes, Guerin is my pick for the best native New Yorker to play for the Knicks. In their respective primes, though, King was pretty damn close to Guerin. King was a great player. Dude rocked a .619 TS% in 1983-84! As a freaking JUMP SHOOTER who didn’t shoot threes! Can you even imagine King in the NBA now? Dude would be averaging 40 points a game!
tiny only played 34 games, then ruptured his achilles…it’s pretty cool he was able to come back and play well…unfortunately it was for boston, but still…
ritchie guerin though, he put up some points 🙂
sadly enough, I spent some of my day wondering this exact point – what exactly does qualify you to be a new yorker (keeping in mind, there’s all of upstate going on)…
I thought about it – and 8 was actually the number I came up with also…I’m changing it to ten now…
takes ten years from birth (or at least 20 as a transplant) to be considered a new yorker…
so yeah, carmelo anthony still does not make the list…had mister anthony simply played the year out at denver – he’d be on the list, and, who knows it may have led to the first time we got to watch a conference finals since the year 2000…
1) Bernard King
2) Stephon Marbury
3) Mark Jackson
4) Kyle O’Quinn
5) Joakim Noah
6) Taj Gibson
7) Carmelo Anthony
Anthony Mason is better than at least the last 4 guys on this list.
was starbury ever really good as a knick…I don’t really remember that happening…wasn’t steve francis around then too…
worst idea ever…
Tiny played for the Nets, though. If we’re counting them, then Julius Erving (Long Island) is number 1.
Hard to define what makes a native New Yorker but for the purposes of this I would say you have to have played basketball here. Also you can’t have west Baltimore tattoed on your arm. So Melo is out.
Rod Strickland demanded a trade bc he didn’t like being Mark Jackson’s backup and he clashed with Stu Jackson. We swapped him for Mo Cheeks, and I believe that chain of succession leads to Charlie Ward.
My criterion for being a native New Yorker is you have to have an accent.
True. But Mason wasn’t born in NY, so therefore even I am higher on the list than he is.
I think you have to have spent your formative basketball years here. Helps to be a local legend whether of the AAU, high school, or playgroind variety.
A lot of guys go to prep schools now, which complicates things I guess. It’s surprising to me how few name-brand guys New York produces. The guys I can remember who really broke out in high school are basically Kenny Anderson, Ron Artsst, Starbury, and Felipe Lopez. Probably a few more that I am blanking on….
Kenny Smith
My Dad (Bronx) and my Mom (Queens) have the thickest Noo Yawk accents, and they think they have no accent. Then they make fun of me because they think I have a SoCal accent, which I clearly do not. I mean I do say “dude” and “gnarly” but that’s about it.
I enjoyed some low stakes poker on Ultimate Bet and Absolute back in the day. I saw a random reference to this on Twitter from Haralabos Voulgaris yesterday, but didn’t bother doing any research. It was a good article. The most damning evidence IS that he’s getting result that mathematically seem very unlikely and not using those supposed skills in a broader range of games. I’m with “Ace” on that one.
My personal criteria for what constitutes “a real New Yorker” has always been “you’re not a real New Yorker until you leave.”
I always recommend Here is New York by EB White when the topic of New York and New Yorkers comes up. Super short and still on point after 50 years. Great stocking stuffer or gift for a new arrival.
I never saw Guerin play so I can’t really evaluate and slot him but my order would be in terms of impact on the Knicks. And, as far as I’m concerned, they’re NYers so:
Bernard King
Carmelo Anthony
Mark Jackson
Stephon Marbury
Anthony Mason
then all the rest…
First pre-season game is Monday!!!!!
Though he never played for Knicks, Chris Mullin was a dyed in the wool NYer, accent and all.
Part of great St. John’s-Georgetown rivalry
I was a PS 76 (Bx) playground legend.
Definitely on one of my shelves.
My favorite NY essay is Tom Wolfe’s “A Sunday Kind of Love.” Worth it just for the phrase the weasel millions.
I went to Kindergarten right down the street at PS95. Well, I guess it’s not exactly right down the street but it’s in the Bx nonetheless.
We moved to the wasteland known as Florida that summer but my heart stayed in Riverdale forever.
@55 lol I’m sure I dunked on you at some point*
*(prob when you were 2 and I was 29)
Supposedly the official numbers.
I’m hearing that Payton has been far and away the most impressive PG in practices so far.
I’m gonna make some enemies when I recommend “Goodbye to All That” by Joan Didion
I loved “Up in the Old Hotel” by Joseph Mitchell for stories about old New York.
The Bronx is Burning.
The Alienist is a good book that does a great job of bringing old New York to life. I didn’t like it as much as many seemed to have but it’s solid.
Speaking of old New York, Randy Dobnak er al are making Judge and Co look like the ‘27 Yankees.
Damn Mitch is 7′-1″ without shoes.
Well dayum! I’ve been at working on uploading student athlete pics and forgot the Yankee game started.
JK47, to them you probably do (lol).
People out here don’t think I have a NY accent until I say certain words (like “coffee” or “water”) or become really energetic (and then they start asking “why are you so aggressive?” to which I’ve had to explain that asking a New Yorker why they’re aggressive is like a boar asking a half-starving tiger why it’s eating it… smh).
What’s wild is, my family that’s back home, I can hear their accents now. I need to go home for like 3 weeks.
@59 David Fizdale just today said that Dennis Smith Jr has been dominating in 5 on 5, and he’s happiest with his passing and defense the most.
If a guy a dominating, he’s passing the ball, and he’s defending, he’s the starter.
—————
I’m watching some of the open practice stuff from today and from what I’m seeing early in? Kevin Knox can really shoot it. He looked more confident with his shot in summer league, and that’s really encouraging that he’s looking more and more like a knockdown shooter. It’s literally the only thing he wasn’t terrible at, so if that part of his game develops we might have a guy you can throw in a trade without teams laughing at you hysterically.
I thought 3 on 3 was the standard method of evaluating players in New York.
So Knox says Ntilikina is the best player in camp, Strat reports that he has heard Payton is the best point guard, and Fizdale says Smith is killing it in five on five. Of the three, I trust Fizdale’s pronouncement the least. He’s probably referring to offense only, and also could be trying to pump DSJ up. On the hand, it’s his opinion that counts.
Lebron and Anthony Davis looked good playing together if you can believe that.
apparently china and tencent are shutting down all rockets’ reporting, promotion and streaming bc of morey’s deleted free hong kong tweet
“Up in the old hotel” is one of my favorite books of all time.
I grew up in queens (forest hills). A typical quirky New Yorker that my family befriended was a guy we call “old Sol”. Who lived down the street. He was a single Jewish guy, who also happened to have an encyclopedic knowledge of baseball. He grew up in a tenement in the Bronx in the 1940’s. He grew up as a gay man in queens as an adult. He helped to ghost write fame the musical with his partner (now deceased). As a child I gained an immense foundation of knowledge from him about baseball. Our lifelong friendship was cemented.
The reason I mention him is, over the years he has filtered every great American non fiction book to me and my family. Including “up in the hotel”. Another quirky fact about Sol. He was a pool shark, and the 1950’ snookers champion in nyc. He was also a bowling legend in his time. Sol is now 81 and no doubt, can be found sitting peacefully, reading a good book on a sunny day, in Yellowstone park in forest hills. He could be a character in the book “ up in the old hotel”.
If you put your money on “supporting pro-democracy dissidents protesting a murderous authoritarian regime” rather than “trading literally everything for 30-year-old Russell Westbrook” as the cause of Morey’s eventual dismissal, you’re sitting pretty right now.
did lacob just text please stfu to kerr this morning or did he jump in the batcopter and show up in person
On the same subject?
edit: I just read an article on Lacob fellating the Chinese market in 2017, yep
Nah, that essay is why I think you’re not a real New Yorker til you leave.
Still no news on who are the starters for tomorrow?
Not only is Mitch our savior, he’s also going to have a media career after he retires. He was on Instagram clowning all his teammates. It was good.
My guess is Mitch, Randle, Morris, Trier, Payton. He might start RJ for dramatic effect, or Knox as a gimmick. Mitch, Randle and Payton should be locks.
If Mitch starts the season coming off the bench, we know Fizdale is a straight-up idiot.
I follow a lot of biased Frank fans and the enthusiasm has been contained. That lead me to believe he’s been “ok”. I didn’t read the Knox quote. Hmmmn
Multiple “Knicks fans” that saw open practice tweeted that Payton was the best all round player. I have no idea if that’s true, but one of them even qualified it by saying. “I know this may upset some Knicks fans but…” So it wasn’t a Payton fan.
As far as I am concerned Fizdale is guilty until proven innocent when it comes to evaluating players and recognizing productive lineups. I thought he was brutally bad last year. It was a tank and development year, but still.
Yeah, unless he’s having a lot of trouble staying on the court due to fouls against starting caliber Cs it doesn’t make much sense. We are the Knicks. It could be 50-50 to happen.
DSJ is going to sit tomorrow because of his back. Sounds like it’s precautionary, but it’s also not ideal that our young would-be starting point guard — whose play, maybe more than anyone else on the roster, will determine how good the team is this year — is still battling back problems.
(Though this also ensures that Frank will get some run at the 1, which could at some point give us that Frank/RJ backcourt we’ve talked about.)
Why is the headline on ESPN: “Follow Live: Giants and Viking in a tight-knit affair”
Is it really that hard to hire competent headline writers?
on of the most underrated things about frank is how he’s able to grow six inches every offseason and still be only 6′ 5″
Or maybe we should literally ignore any “news” from training camp as they quite clearly mean nothing once the season starts. They might be meaningful to figure out who starts and who doesn’t, but frankly, even though we’re starved for actual basketball discussions, 99% of this is hype talk and random PR.
Via Marc Stein. Since we talked so much about him coming here the last two times we had coaching vacancies, I thought it was worth mentioning.
I too prefer to be inordinately biased on the recommendations of company men before seeing a single minute of play out of these guys. It’s like turning the eyetest difficulty sliders all the way up: “But they said Frank grew 3 inches and learned to dribbled into the paint! He must be nursing some lingering injuries.”
Really sucks about Blatt. But I’m happy that he’s a wealthy man already so he can afford the care he’ll need to fight MS.
Frank is 6’6″ haters!
Yeah, Frank and Zion are both 6’6″ and Frank has longer arms, so yeah.
As an aside, which NBA teams are not worth watching? Maybe Charlotte and Washington? Besides them, every team is either a legit playoff contender or has a young, interesting team. Is that fair to say?
The league is in a pretty good place.
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I’m not interested in the Magic, Suns, Cavs or Pistons.
The Magic have Vucevic, a solid but unspectacular player, and a bunch of “but-what-if” players, and the hype train has left Fournier, Gordon and Ross at the station. (Did you know that Terrence Ross, one of the great leapers of his era, dunks about once every 90 minutes of playing time?)
Here are the Suns’ top earners in 2020: Devin Booker, Tyler Johnson, Ricky Rubio, Kelly Oubre, Deandre Ayton, Aron Baynes, Frank Kaminsky. I don’t care to watch any of them.
Cavs have the husks of Kevin Love and Tristan Kardashian, Brandon Knight, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance, John Henson and Delly making a combined $108M. Hard pass.
Blake Griffin took 39% of his shots from behind the arc last year, and although he was pretty good at it (36%), it’s still not much fun. Drummond is still doing his thing, but Reggie Jackson, Tony Snell, Langston Galloway and Derrick Rose aren’t exciting to me either. I guess I’d watch some Pistons here and there, but I’m probably not tuning in to watch their latest 39-win campaign. Fun fact: Josh Smith’s stretch contract finally comes off their books this year, having played 12 total minutes since the end of the 2015-16 season.
New appointment viewing will be a full-strength Grizzlies, Mavs and Pelicans.
I just saw Frank listed at 6′ 6″ with no shoes.
He was listed at 6′ 5″ as a rookie. He was listed at 6’6″ last year, but for all we know that may have been with shoes. He’s clearly taller now than when he came in. You can see it photographs standing alongside teammates from year to year that he really did grow after the age of 18.
Personally, I think it’s significant “for him” that he got taller and stronger. Being a lock down defender that’s 6″ 1″ like Beverly has tremendous value, but there’s not as many players he can switch on and remain as effective. At 6′ 6″ with very long arms you can stay with most SFs and some of the smaller PFs.
If Frank is going to be a highly effective player it’s going to be primarily based on defense. That inch or two and those long arms may matter some day if we want to win games because we defend well.
I disagree on those teams…wouldn’t pay to see them but would be fine going to a game with them vs. the Knicks or a decent team. Orlando has Isaac and Bamba, and Vucevic is a very talented offensive big. I know you and many here hate Booker, but he’s 22 and I think he’ll be a really good player for a long time and Rubio should help him, and Ayton is looking like Amar’e 2.0. I also like Sexton and Garland and expect Love to have a nice comeback this year now that LeBron is 1 year removed. Detroit is clunky and I’m not crazy about Drummond’s game, but Blake is still a very, very good player, it’s kinda fun to watch his slow-motion power moves executed with more finesse than I ever thought he’d have. And I can’t wait to hear how Clyde pronounces SVIATOSLAV MYKHAILIUK.
In addition to the Grizzlies, Mavs and Pelicans, former doormats Kings and Hawks are worth watching. On the other hand, other than KAT, the T’wolves are pretty abysmal.
Teams I’ll never watch this season (unless they play the Knicks):
Cleveland
Detroit
Orlando
Phoenix
Miami
Charlottle LOLWeHaveTheir2ndRoundPick
Washington
Dallas would not be interesting if it weren’t for the KP angle. They’re essentially Luka Doncic and the 2018 Knicks, which is not as fun as I dreamt two years ago. Hardaway Jr is who he is, and Porzingis is being load managed at 24 years old. Maybe if Porzingis defeats his anemia (and does anybody know how many guys in the NBA have anemia?) the Mavs can make things exciting but the one man Doncic show won’t do it for me.
Atlanta and Brooklyn are teams I like a lot. With or without Durant, the Nets can play Irving, Harris, LeVert, Prince, and Allen which should be a lot of running, defending, and shooting along with a bunch of highlight reel material from Kyrie Irving. I’m really interested in Trae Young’s second season as well as how Cam Reddish fits in with all of those guys. He dramatically underwhelmed in college but maybe he sticks to 3&D and makes a career for himself.
Out west, I still believe in the Warriors. Curry and Russell should be really tough for most teams to cover if they play the way I’m accustomed to seeing out of Golden State, and then when Klay gets back nobody will want to see them in the first round.
Basketball is in a good spot for sure.
Yikes I forgot about the Timberwolves. Their GM really should sell high on KAT and go full rebuild mode. For sure he’d be able to get both Dallas picks, Kevin Knox (lol), and some more picks and expiring deals from us. Boston doesn’t have that awesome treasure chest of picks anymore, but I bet people still think Jaylen Brown is a prize worth having and then whatever picks they could offer. Or maybe the most fun thing would be taking all of the LAL picks from NOLA and a few of their young guys for KAT while also dumping Wiggins (not sure this is possible considering that’s $60M+ in annual value). Lonzo, Zion, and KAT? That’s cheating.
Wait, so now he’s listed as 6’5″ again?
That means some other players are shrinking.
They have Dotson at 6’6″ and I’ve seen 2-3 photos of them standing next to each other and Frank was either equal or taller. He also looks taller that Trier and they have Trier at 6′ 5″.
This reminds me of that Odd Couple episode where Felix was claiming all cameras distort. lol
I’m thinking the NBA has not solved its height problem. lol
I’d watch Jonathan Isaac. And I always have time for Luka.
I think Bamba is going to have a great sophomore year.
Me, too. Last year’s draft looks really stacked.
Especially if Knox learns how to play basketball.
I really don’t care about the Wizards, Pistons, Hornets, Bulls, Magic and TWolves. All the other teams have someone I like watching, like Rubio with the Suns, or just some mild curiosity about guys like Garland on the Cavs and Butler / Winslow on the Heat.
A poster on Celtics Blog remarked:
“Meanwhile, it feels like Kanter getting burned constantly.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The Bulls are actually quite interesting to me. They had lots of injuries last year and I like their younbg core. Lavine is wack but they’re not that bad on paper.
Two comments about Frank
The NBA typically measures heights with sneakers, which adds at least an inch to a measured height. So Frank’s measurement in socks is consistent with him having grown.
The comment from Knox was made at the beginning of training camp and so was probably based on a couple of days of playing at most. The comment about Payton was based on one practice. These are both the epitome of small sample size. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if Payton is going well. He’s an established point guard in the NBA and the others are not.
@104
They’re the team on that list I might end up watching the most, they have the potential to be in a lot of close games and have some breakout performances by guys like Carter Jr, Markkanen etc.. I feel like I’ll end up tuning out a lot while Zach LaVine chucks up his 22nd shot in the 3rd quarter, just like my experience was with the Suns last season, so I won’t rate them much higher than that.
It does feel like the league is at its peak “league pass” levels, the fact that we’re all mostly talking about 4 to 6 not very interesting teams, and there’s even arguments for some of those, is an incredible thing. Even the Knicks should be genuinely watchable for non-Knicks fans.
Why not sign Deron Williams?
Just joking but what happened to that guy….
@69…that was a nice story llcoolbp…
there are all kinds of folks in all places, and, new york is a pretty diverse and large state…it’s fun though to share our own beliefs on what makes someone a new yorker…
I ain’t lived there since 86, but, it don’t take very long for folks to guess where I’m from…
Orlando were really good in the second half of the season last year. I don’t know if Vucevic can repeat what he did last year, but Isaac is a good young player, they have the great Khem Birch, and if they can get anything out of Bamba and Fultz they have a real chance to be a lot better than people think. They also might be really disappointing if Vuc was a fluke and they get nothing from their PGs. It’s definitely the most interesting Magic team to me in a long time (although that’s a low, low bar)
The T-wolves are easily the most disappointing member of the Do Not Watch club, they seemed on the verge just 2 years ago and self-destructed. KAT might just AD his way out of there before too long. Maybe we could offer the 2 Dallas picks and RJ for him…then we can vie for the record of having the most guys from the top-10 of any draft to play for one franchise.
So now the NBA’s response to the Morey tweet is getting bipartisan condemnation. This could get ugly/fun.
Never been a big Morey fan, but would rather see him fired for basketball reasons than this BS. Just like I’d rather see Trump voted out in a landslide than impeached.
@109
It is a pretty competent team, I’m just not particularly interested in any of their good players, Vucevic / Gordon / Fournier etc, maybe I’ll watch some if Fultz gets some good minutes.
The Wolves are unwatchable to me because of Wiggins mostly, and the roster is so uninspiring past KAT that it really looks like those Pelicans teams that were just a pain to watch. The Wiggins deal might literally throw the franchise into a downward spiral for the next 5 years, as it seems Butler left because of it, and I highly doubt KAT will stay put.
The league’s response so far has been as Adam Silver as possible: don’t commit to anything, throw the weight of the decisions publicly onto the Rockets. I sincerely hope Morey does not get fired or blacklisted for this, as it would be truly absurd. It will get so messy, with the anti-China crowd getting riled up, not without reason.
For a league that supposedly prides itself in being social justice warriors their position is money grubbing and patently absurd. Silver aught to give Morey the “Man of the Year” award for as you fellows like to claim, actually speaking truth to power.
The aught to tell Xi to take his billion dollars and shove it right up his ass and they can get their $114 jerseys made in a Vietnamese sweat shop for $114.50 all in.
This only way to get some people’s attention is to take a principled stand and kick them right in the balls/wallet
Cowering in front of a bully isn’t a good way to be successful. The league and Houston’s management’s reaction is beneath contempt. Tens of thousands of Hong Kong residents are going to be slaughtered just like in 1989 and Xi will claim 16 people died. Georges Santayana is mumbling something, something somewhere…..
Prepare to be unhappy for the next 5 years.
Let the games begin!
Predictions for tonight’s starting lineup? I’m guessing Fiz has an idea of his Oct 23rd starting lineup so he will want to give that group some burn before then. DSJ’s a bit of a wildcard in all of this but I think Fiz prefers Payton regardless of Smith’s health. An experienced floor general is the priority.
My guess for tonight: Payton, Trier, Morris, Randle, Mitch (balance of offense/defense)
I don’t think Trier is a serious candidate to start in the regular season, since even Fiz seems to understand that he’s best suited as poor man’s Jamal Crawford. Since Frank will have to play PG with DSJ out, I would guess we start with a Payton/Barrett backcourt, with Frank and Trier coming off the bench. That frontcourt seems about right, though.
I hear you but I think the conventional wisdom could be wrong here. If Trier is able to hit 3’s, attack closeouts, be a secondary playmaker, and not be a ball stopper and not be a train wreck on D, why couldn’t he be a starter? Team needs an SG who’s able to hit 3’s and that’s not RJ at the moment. RJ’s strong like Rodman and SG appears like it will be his best position but he first needs to improve his shooting and acclimate to the NBA. Second unit seems like a better place for him. He rates to be more successful there and the team probably wants to maximize the chances of his getting off to a fast start.
But he is mostly a ballstopper, and his defense is not what you would call good. RJ will struggle in that area, too, but he’s also much more of a secondary playmaker than Zo is on his most generous day.
Why in the world did Toronto give Lowry a one-year extension? Was it just a reward type deal?
all these ppl asking the nba to take a stance on something meanwhile they continue to wear, buy and shop for things made in china….
concern trolls…. be concerned….
And keeps everyone’s options open. He can still stay a bit longer, and Toronto won’t be stuck with him into his decline stage. But he also becomes a more attractive trade target, since he’s not just a rental.
Is he really much of an attractive trade target on a two-year/$65 million deal?
Starting Trier or Barrett seems to me to depend on what kind of offense Fizdale wants. By that standard I prefer he starts Barrett, but I’m not counting on it, given his coaching decisions last year.
I actually think there’s a chance he starts Peyton and Ntilikina in the back court.
Is he a natural ball stopper though or was a lot of that because we had no real shot creators or playmakers last season? Would his ballstopping ways change in a lineup with Randle and Payton? Longer term the hope is RJ would be able to hit 3’s and post a >75% FT% to be our starting SG.
No fellating of Daniel Jones today?
Maybe when Smith is healthy. He probably won’t do it today, though I suppose the presence of Kadeem Allen makes it possible.
I continue to be impressed. Playing his 3rd game, against that defense, with both his RB’s out, and he did just fine. And if you can do just fine in that situation, you’re pretty good.
His TD to Slayton was perfect. I thought he overthrew him by 2 yards and then it just him perfectly in stride.
My greatest fear about the offense is a Mitch PnR fading away. Payton is a career 36% from 10-16 and 33% from 16-arc. Defenders will just go under the screen. What about DSJ? Well I read Fiz’s quote that he’s impressed by his passing and defense to mean that his shooting hasn’t improved at all. I focus on what a coach doesn’t say to read into how players are faring in practice. Strangely enough, a more aggressive Frank might be our best Mitch PnR guard. I don’t have the stats but my sense is Frank’s been decent shooting out of the PnR even at Strasbourg. I think our most effective lineup in terms of offense and defense might be Frank/Trier/Morris/Randle/Mitch.
He did miss on a few other throws, like when Shepard was wide open. But it’s also hard to judge him harshly under those circumstances: facing a brutal defense, with no running threat to speak of once Gallman got concussed. The Vikings were able to play the pass on virtually every down, and Solder wasn’t up to the task, at all.
He didn’t have a stinker in a game that was perfectly set up for him to have a stinker. I think that’s impressive. Now he has a short week to prepare for the Patriots. God help him if he doesn’t have Barkley or Gallman.
The Mandarin translation of the NBA’s response to Morey is currently trending on Twitter. Not exactly a faithful representation.
Are you kidding me? he was under the gun the entire game with zero running game and D+ pass protection and had them in the game til near the end. To a much better team by the way…
He threw exactly 1.5 poor throws the entire day while running for his life. The throw to Shepard at the back line was too high and the pass to Shepard was early when he was behind the defense was 5 inches too long as he was getting pummeled right at the release.
With no defense to get him the ball back and no running game to keep the pass rush honest he was sacked 4 time and knocked to the ground 8 more times.
Did you note how he got a shout out from the Minny defense in the post game news conference.?
For a long time I’ve felt that sports/entertainment companies and probably even individual participants should not get involved in politics. It’s divisive, bad for business, most individuals don’t have any real expertise on whatever they are commenting on (they have limited personal experience or information from politically biased sources), and most important, the very purpose of sports and entertainment is to be a diversion from such things. I watch and go to games to get away from this crap.
There are plenty of ways to contribute to causes you believe in a private way that avoid the downsides of opening your mouth about things you may not fully understand.
Joe Tsai has already made comments on Morey. It would seem he understands the reaction from “fans” in China.
Also, apparently, the NBA is fine with management, coaches, and players engaging on social issues, just not anything that affects their bottom line.
^ Joseph Tsai’s comment.
What a groveling, sad sack of shit. He should be torn apart for this but he won’t be. Media doesn’t work like that here.
Ironic, that many of the same people that are upset over issues in Hong Kong vs. China are on the opposite side of Brexit (even though there was an actual vote on that) and other independence moves around the world. It seems that people don’t really value freedom. They value having economic and political power over others. If they have the power, trying to separate is bad, otherwise it’s good.
Fuck Joe Tsai. He knows where his billions are buttered and what position has to be taken in these circumstances.
I teach mainland Chinese kids English over the internet 7 days a week in the middle of the night which is why I post here at odd hours sometimes. I have taught over 20,000 lessons and have probably talked to close to 50,000 Chinese over the past 3 years.
Most of my clients are upper middle class to downright wealthy and not a single one of them has ever spouted the “party line”. The are super nice polite people that like making money and just want to be left alone like just about every other clear thinking person in this world.
Maybe some of the rural rubes think that way but not the middle class or above.
@119
Damn that’s a lot of “ifs”.
Trier, at this stage of his career, is best suited as a 6th man, coming in to ignite an offense. He hasn’t proven that he can hit the 3, attack close-outs, be any kind of playmaker, never passes the ball and plays matador defense. He needs a lot of work.
Trier needs to significantly improve to become a good sixth man. He flashed some skills last year but overall he was a very bad player.
False equivalence alert….. parlayed with a straw man argument:
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/MadeInAmerica/made-america-american-made-textiles-business-owners-struggle/story?id=12971618
edit: If Stratomatic hasn’t learned by now, he’s never going to learn.
Sidebar: Tonights starters are Payton, RJ, Morris, Randle, and Robinson.
Also, it’s sort of crazy that Joseph Tsai can make those comments as the owner of a New York City based franchise and not be taken to task for it. I do not have a great hold on the human rights issues going on in China, so I won’t rush to judgment, but I can’t say I like the idea of calling the protestors a “separatist movement.”
yea sure bob….
@138 – I rarely agree with you on anything political. I’m pretty centrist but abhor everything about Trump. I’ve been so proud to be an American until Trump took office and has sided with foreign dictators and despots. Watch the Colin Powell interview from last week. He speaks for me.
I stand with the people of Hong Kong.
I stand with the thousands of Kurds that are going to get slaughtered by Turkey.
I stand with the thousands of kids in concentration camps.
I could go on, but …
In this case, I agree with you. Money is all that drives men like Tsai. America has always stood for freedom and independence and under the communist rule in China. He cannot speak for 1.4 Billion people. My company does a lot of business in China (and is suffering because of Trump) and they are indeed nice, very hard working people. But we cannot ally ourselves with dictatorships anywhere.
As for your comment in @116 – it is my opinion that anyone that votes for Trump in 2020 might as well urinate on the American flag.
Although there is high Chinese nationalism these days, when Chinese citizens boycott companies over Hong Kong/Taiwan statements, it’s primarily out of fear that they themselves will be blacklisted by the Chinese government.
I don’t know if the league/Rockets are handling this poorly as far as I can tell. Apologies are fine, but Morey shouldn’t be fined/fired for commenting on a foreign country in a personal way: He’s an American working for an American company in America. Tencent and the CBA are being ridiculous, motivated by a fear of government fines/sanctions.
@143 – That might be the opening day lineup too.
If we use that as a baseline, the second team could be: Portis, Taj, Knox, Frank and DSJr.
There’s literally no way to avoid Chinese manufacturing except maybe if you went full primitivism and removed yourself from the grid.
That leaves Trier on the outside of the rotation looking in. Which I’ll believe when I see. I’m also curious if Taj is going to be a significant part of the rotation or a spot minutes guy, since Portis can back up both Mitch and Randle, while Knox can (and arguably should) play the 4 a bit when we go small.
Comparing the situation with Hong Kong / China to the UK / European Union just show a complete lack of understanding of well, everything related to both cases.
I’m against any form of totalitarianism so I won’t ever support the current Chinese government. But it is incredibly naive to make this a simple discussion about “freedom”, as if Hong Kong wasn’t also tangled up in a billion money related interests and geopolitical situations. It annoys me because freedom gets used as an argument by people who don’t give a shit about it, just because it fits their current narrative of “anti-leftism” or whatever we can call it. It’s the same shit people say about Venezuela when they choose to conveniently ignore hundreds of years of history to treat a specific situation as if it is a single isolated moment in history.
I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on China, either, but I know what the statistical probability of 100% of 1.4 billion people agreeing on something is. That statement was insulting.
@153 – Originally I had Trier in that 2nd team. Problem is that there weren’t enough big wings. Replace Taj with Trier and look how small that team is. I see Trier coming in to replace RJ if the starters aren’t scoring. I have to see him share the ball and play defense before he becomes anything other than instant-O.
Guy just finished his rookie year and everybody’s able to tell his best role? After playing on a team with zero shot creation? That’s the same attitude a lot of people here have about Mitch on the offensive end. Better not to pigeonhole players so early in their careers. Butler and Kawhi would be 3&D guys if their teams adopted this philosophy.
Not that many. His contract is more of issue.
– He shot 39.4% from 3
– He’s above average in attacking closeouts
– His passing is decent: You could put him in PnR with Mitch and Randle
– He had a .431 FTr so he rates to be a secondary shot creator/playmaker
– Defense is the key issue but there are plenty of SGs who are poor defenders who excel on the offensive end. He needs to not be terrible which isn’t that high a bar.
Compare the IF’s to other players:
– If Payton becomes a much better shooter off the dribble and if he improves to where he’s no longer a terrible PnR defender….He’s never gonna improve at shooting of the dribble at this stage (he’s terrible) so he’s a quality reserve but no more
– If DSJ significantly improves his shooting and BBall IQ and doesn’t zone out and and his back is not a lingering issue and is close to average on defense…..It’s tough for players to improve shooting off the dribble and change their shooting motion so I’m not optimistic
– If Frank improves his handle and improves his outside shooting and improves his FTr/ability to finish…while it’s against the odds, Frank’s handle has improved and he’s been more aggressive. His outside shooting will be the key
– If Randle is able to shoot 35%+ from 3 and be serviceable defending other PFs….Now this is much more likely than the previous 3 players
Rank by probability of player as potential future plus starter:
1. Randle
2. Trier
3. Frank
4. DSJ
5. Payton
I forgot all about Wayne Ellington when we were talking about the rotation. I assume he will be involved at least at the start of the season. Whether that means a big rotation, or one of the kids being left on the outside looking in, we’ll have to see.
I don’t get the hate for Trier. He may be the best shooter on the team and yet people are acting as he’s totally uncoachable. Is it because he came in as an undrafted rookie at age 22 that some assume that he is what he is, i.e. an inveterate no-d chucker?
I look forward to gloating when he surprises a lot of doubters this year.
Payton/RJ has to be the worst 3pt-shooting guard combo in the league. I probably like both players more than most here, but I don’t think they can both be the opening day starters.
Yeah, Payton/Trier is a better fit (at least offensively) just as Frank/RJ could become a compatible guard pairing if they both improve. It’s just hard to tell because most of these kids are still so raw, except for Payton who mostly “is who he is” at this point.
I don’t understand the Knicks’ seeming fixation to make RJ a 2 from the start. He’s 6’7″, so the 3 position seems natural. More importantly, his shooting is suspect, and any backcourt combo that has him in it is going to compromise the spacing of the team, which already is likely to be bad because none of our PGs can shoot and we’re carrying a ton of nonshooting bigs, too.
Trier, with all his warts, is going to be a key player because he’s the best shooter on the team. Knox may be the 2nd best. No one else on the team is likely going to be able to keep a defense honest.
i’ve come to terms with no swole kp, no kd/kyrie, and losing the zion lottery. but for some reason i’m still bitter about not getting the 2. my preseason excitement level would be like 5x if we had ja and mitch. prove me dumb rj!
His natural strength is his greatest strength (on offense). That would be negated somewhat if he were to be guarded by a SF. Of course, he’s gotta be able to hit his free throws.
positions don’t really matter….. but he’ll be helped by the fact that he’ll have size advantage on whoever is guarding him most of the time…. it’s the better move imo….
My voice remote just translated “New York Knicks” as “you suck nicks,” which… tough but fair, voice remote. Tough but fair.
What, do you want to deny Putin the freedom to interfere with the Western democratic process?
They don’t matter when you can shoot. If you can shoot, you can play anywhere. Unless Barrett is hiding a 40% 3 ball, putting him at the 2 removes our two best shooters, Trier and Ellington (who I keep forgetting about, too).
We could be the biggest team in the NBA. It might not get us 30 wins. Again, the fixation on size, I just don’t get it. A Payton/Smith/Frank – Barrett – Morris – Randle – Robinson lineup is going to be physically large… and very easy to defend.
the universe knows 🙂
Jeez, now James Harden is apologizing to China? Incredible…
None of this is hate on Trier.
The issue is that the team is built with 15 average-ish players. Ellington, Trier, Brazdekis, Dotson and Bullock weren’t in my 2nd team – and there are others like Wooten and Hinton that deserve a shot too.
There is no all-star. There are a handful of good starters. There are so many “show me something” players on this team.
BTW, this is the depth chart I put together a while back (ages in parens):
PG: Payton (25) – DSmith (21) – Trier (23) – Hinton (22) – Peters (21)
SG: Barrett (19) – Frank (21) – Ellington (31) – Bullock (28) – Dotson (25)
SF: Morris (30) – Brazdekis (20)
PF: Randle (24) – Knox (20) – Wooten (21) – King (22)
C: Mitch (21) – Portis (24) – Gibson (34)
i mean… ellington or really whoever else is not all that relevant…. what’s relevant is rj and putting him in a position to succeed…. and he did well in duke when he had a size advantage on his opponent… it would behoove us to at least try that to start out to see if that’s the best place to put him….
and it behooves us to put him as high on the positional spectrum as we can as we would derive the most benefit from it….
not that our win total this year is entirely relevant… but even if it is…. whether rj plays the 2 or 3 is not gonna change one win or loss if you played 10 seasons let alone one…..
I think RJ Barrett should definitely start, and I don’t mind it being at the 2. If Payton is the logical starter at 1 and they want to start RJ, would you rather have him next to Ntilikina/Ellington/Trier or Marcus Morris? Morris puts more defense and a 37.5% 3 point shooter in the line up as opposed to any of the three one-way players we have at shooting guard. Looking at it as “this is the worst shooting back court in the league” is myopic to me. Randle and Morris are both good enough shooters to play their position, and Payton/RJ probably means Robinson has more guys who can pass him the ball.
Also, RJ’s jumper looks dramatically different from what it was at Duke. Maybe he can shoot it at a respectable enough clip to open up the rest of his offense.
Four of these guys are clear starters. RJ isn’t, but as our “star” draft pick it makes sense.
No shooting, lots of rebounding.
A healthy Bullock in the lineup over RJ would look like a decent team.
What’s that?
My philosophy is consistent. I am very long term idealist, but I’m a realist about the world we live in now. People in this world have different values, priorities, religions, cultures, languages, customs etc… Sometimes they want to do things their own way. They don’t want others having power over them. (financial or political)
I’m in favor of freedom.
I support Hong Kong.
I support Taiwan.
However, I also support Brexit, Catalan, Basque and some other separatist movements that are not so popular in the mainstream.
I’m pretty much in favor of every group that wants to break away from centralized power even when I disagree with their reasons.
If you are referring to athletes and entertainers, I think most of them have very little expertise outside their own field (like most of us). They think they are informed because they read or heard some nonsense in a politically motivated newspaper or newscast. But they are usually clueless and don’t understand all the facts and complexities of the issues they comment and take stands on. The same is true of me and you (except on Frank where I am clearly the preeminent expert. lol)
I’d way rather hear facts and opinions from honest experts debating these things and let GMs, coaches, players, actors, actresses etc… take me away from the madness of the world, not spread their ignorance to the masses and destroy what little good there is.
As soon as the CIA stops overthrowing governments and assassinating people aligned with our political and economic adversaries.
In general, I believe we are the good guys, but that’s certainly not because I believe the garbage in our press about us or them. And I don’t think we should typically take an active role. I think we should lead by example and by results so people want to be like us of their own free will. If they don’t want to be like us, then maybe some aspects of our culture suck and they are fortunate they are trying to avoid those things.
We’ll find out if RJ deserves to start over the next few games.
If you consistently put 4-5 guys on the court who don’t shoot the league average from 3, that’s definitely going to impact wins and losses. Any lineup with Barrett at the 2 is going to create spacing problems for everyone.
My belief about this team is that there’s no way to allocate the minutes that will result in a good team 3pt% or eFG%.
A lineup where Ellington is at the 2, Morris at the 3, Randle at the 4 and Portis at the 5 would be non-terrible from the 3, though it remains to be seen whether Frank or Smith can learn to shoot. (We know that Payton can’t.) That’s not our best lineup, what with Mitch not being in it, but we have some passable shooters on this team.
I will not buy league pass this year.
I’ll watch the occasional game on TBS, etc., but the Knicks do not deserve my money or attention.
I will follow this blog and the box scores. If they show any competence I’ll consider giving them more attention.
I’ve already disavowed the Jets for the same reason. In my lifetime, those teams have won all of three championships….and I was four, six and nine.
There are reasonable suggestions that the Brexit referendum was affected by Russia. Russia and Iran sent more than 10 million tweets alone to create misinformation and discord. whether one believes this or not, there was enough Russia and Iran interference that it would justify a revote…
but rj not shooting would cause spacing problems irregardless of any position he plays….. if you have a problem with him starting then ok… but whether he plays the 2 or 3 isn’t impacting anything…
the much bigger difference there is that you’re playing marcus morris more than ellington….. and yea if i had to pick someone who should play more it’s morris….
there’s plenty of controversial decisions to grind your gears about…. you’re gonna die of a heart attack this season if you’re gonna keep picking on things like these….
and really… shooting the 3 is not the end all be all of offense….. i mean with the way this sub talks ppl would want shaq shooting 3s today….
Payton/Ellington/Morris/Randle/Mitch is a good enough lineup from 3 but lacking elsewhere. If healthy, those guys could maybe win 30 games. The young guys should get minutes, but they shouldn’t start unless they prove they’re better than the vets, although who the hell knows what Fiz is thinking…
The fundamental issue as I see it is that the roster is clearly constructed to play two bigs at all times, and we have a group of PGs who all have big questions about their shooting. So you’re starting from a fundamentally spacing challenged baseline in two major ways.
Now some of those bigs can shoot a little, Portis and to a lesser extent Randle (people focus too much on his % and not enough on attempts; teams aren’t going to guard him at the 3 point line no matter what % he makes until he becomes much more willing to let it fly), and there’s maybe some hope that Smith and Frank can still turn into at least respectable outside shooters. So you can dream up some lineups that sort of maybe look like they have respectable shooting.
But minute by minute this is going to be a seriously spacing challenged team on the whole unless one of those two factors fundamentally changes – the PGs take big jumps shooting the ball or Fiz finds a way to get to a decent amount of time with Morris or Knox playing the 4 (would mean not a lot of minutes for Taj+Portis probably).
Apparently Fiz also said today that Knox will play some at the 2, which is going to be…interesting defensively. Watching him try to stay in front of guards will be quite something I imagine.
We don’t want everyone shooting threes, but there’s a problem when no one can shoot threes.
Randle is the second best shooter in the lineup and hit a barely passable percentage for precisely one season.
Morris is the best shooter, and he barely shoots at league average.
I just want to say, at the start of this new year for the Knicks, that there are a lot of guys that need to step up. I’m looking for:
– Frank Ntilikina and Kevin Knox to start putting the ball in the bucket.
– Mitchell Robinson to stay healthy and stay out of foul trouble so he stays on the court.
– RJ Barrett to play like a #3 pick
– Alonzo Trier to learn how to dish and to defend (and actually do it).
– Julius Randle to become a leader
My prediction – another lottery.
Bobby Portis is out tonight with a bruised rib. So Taj will definitely play. And maybe Iggy will get a few minutes?
apparently, half court 3v3 skill set is all that matters. SMH
if youre the grizzlies of 5 yrs ago or the utah jazz now you get to talk about the lack of 3pt shooting… when youre us thats like talking about rearranging the chairs on the titanic…
Spot on, that’s exactly what has been missing. Nowadays, its very very difficult to decipher where factual knowledge ends and agenda driven political speculations begin.
Need some help understanding this whole new school of position-less basketball future…feels like a consultant buzzword to me without much substance.
To me:Position-less players is just a fancy way of saying the player can play more than one position successfully; With respect to offensive skill set we called them versatile and with respect to defending we called them amazing athletes. position-less basketball offensive and defensiveness strategies and schematics makes no sense to me.
Everyone has a position, role, and responsibility on each offensive and defensive possession. This needs to be super clear to each individual in order for the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts. See bill belicheck and the pats for details.
The position or responsibility can and should change depending on the play or schematic the team is trying to execute. Whether its a different player bringing teh ball up the court and initiating offense, different screaner, different finisher at the rim or shooter, poster, penetrator, etc…
Do you really need 12 individuals who can do everything offensively and defensively? I don’t think so. I don’t care if my shooters can dribble penetrate, just need them to shoot lights out. See Klay Thompson. I don’t care if my leading rim protector and rebounder can shoot threes. See Rudy Gobert. etc. Its impossible to lead the league in assists, 3PT FG%, blocks and rebounds at the same time.
Is position-less basketball basically socializing the overall responsibility without specific individual accountability?
this is pretty much the exact way i’m going to approach their season…don’t seem to make much sense sticking both of my nuts in a vise…
although i will say…i am due for some updated gear this year…i remember though looking last year and i wasn’t able to find any of that old school “burnt” orange looking gear that i like…
Personally I am going to look at it on a month to month basis rather than forking out the $300 AUD on the full season. The team package for a month seems like good value and you are not tied to the package if they stink it up in January ha ha
VPN + Reddit
the team package through an app is pretty cheap (about $100 USD); however, i remember a couple of years ago the live stream absolutely sucked…through regular fiber optic cable service (fios) it runs about $200 (complete league coverage)…not a huge chunk of change – it’s just the whole – do i really wanna watch that much knick basketball…maybe not…
it’s one thing to get online for a while and waste a little time bullshitting here about the knicks and other stuff, but, not sure i wanna watch each of their games until i’m pretty sure i’ll see more winning than losing…
Mitch looks great
First observation (aside from there not being a game thread). The team on the floor looks like Mitch Robinson got traded to another team and that’s what we’re watching… and it is.
RJ is contesting. He plays dogged defense.
Randle is going to be force.
Mitch will love playing with Elfrid.
Morris isn’t afraid of putting up a 3 and is very physical.
I get this. Only really get to watch live games on the weekend, given most games during the week are on while I am at work. Not to sound like a fickle supporter, but I am generally not super stoked to go home and watch a replay them lose when highlights are free ha ha
Frank and Knox. Let’s see them take 3’s.
knox and frank first subs
Frank just hit a jumper Knicks going 82-0
FRANK THE MARKSMAN!!!
I really like this confident version of Frank Ntilikina
Great pass by Taj for Knox in the lane.
Frank does look more poised out there. Still doesn’t look like he’s quick enough to get by anyone, but poise and eventually some change of pace is what you want to see from Frank. *Not an endorsement of Frank
Good cut and finish from Knox too. Just a simple layup, but he fucked that up so much last year.
Frank and Knox playing like lottery picks
we look kinda good out there… but i think it’s more that the wizards are really really bad…..
Predicting 14 wins for the Wizards
Knox with the 3!!! (and more importantly 2 rebs in 6 min)
Shhhh!!! The Wizards are an NBA team. Let us have this one moment of hope.
We have the whole season to be realists.
In this game at least, our depth is showing up the way one would hope. As soon as both second teams came in, the Knicks started to excel.
it’s preseason
Um… so… about that corner 3 attempt by Ntilikina…
LOOKING LIKE SOME SERIOUS PROGRESS
Then, the missed layup. There’s the Frank we know and love!!
Was that the contested one at the rim? I’m good with that. I’m not good with that 3. That was hideous.
wagner and bertans are certainly not shy….
Anyone have their wingspans?
mitch just missed his first pick and pop attempt
Meanwhile, in Atlanta….
We really deserved to win the lottery.
RJ Barrett’s form is reverting back to his Duke days. It’s gonna be a long season for him.
randle is gonna have a big year if he’s really handling teh ball this much…. and he looks good…
@219
I was assured that there are serious concerns about his ability to play point guard and for his arms to be long enough to do things regarding the game of basketball. Jury’s still out.
I’ve just watched the Knicks play effective offense and defense. I don’t recognize these guys. But it’s not against a good team.
Effective play, is effective play I guess.
Knox showed me something in the first. Frank looked more aggressive and the knives played well with him out there for a while.
Still waiting to get excited about rj
morris is still a dick
Morris is an idiot.
Hachimura looks like a player, or at least an athlete. Morris’s thuggery apparently woke up the Wizards.
if you’re wondering what randle’s doing that’s him playing interior d
very nice by RJ with the right
great sequence by rj…. 3/4 from 2p land so far….
RJ scored a lot on the break at Duke.
RJ did seem to push off…
That coaches challenge was so much more exciting than watching basketball! Great stuff NBA.
holy shit wally is annoying.
when the knicks run their offense thru randle mitch kind of disappears
point forward Randle!
Wally please shut the fuck up
Frank still can’t shoot
I don’t want to like this Knicks team so early, but I like this Knicks team. It looks like we don’t have any players who are a complete waste of minutes this year.
Frank still struggles on offense though.
gibson is like having kurt thomas back
I missed most of the first half, but the Frank N I’ve seen this half still can’t shoot, but his D is very good, and he’s also got like 3 rebounds that I’ve seen. Still clanking shots, though.
RJ has had a strong quarter that was a nice charge he drew
I was going to say this earlier. I’m going to enjoy having Gibson around.
And as soon as I post, Frank hits a three.
Agree on Gibson. Love him. I really dislike Morris. Gonna be real hard to root for him…
Randle not exactly a defensive savant. He and RJ on offense make a nice pair though… it’s good to see smart ball movement wearing blue and orange.
Frank really needs a full year in the minors.
RJ is still an inconsistent shooter but that’s kind of the only glaring weakness in his game. He competes on defense, understands how to get to the basket, and rebounds/passes well for a wing.
Also, the most important stat of the night is Mitchell Robinson’s 2 fouls in 25 minutes. If he’s only fouling once every 12 minutes he’s an all star.
I hope the fourth features Iggy and the other kids.
Knox’s rebounding is the most important part of his development. I do think he can score more effectively than last year, but he needs to add something else to that. Rebounding is the most obvious piece he can add.
Just like that I’m a huge rj fan!
Should’ve went #1!!!
Knox really competes for rebounds….I didn’t think he’d be like that, to his credit and my shame. If he can bulk up a bit…
On Frank’s first 3pter tonight, I legitimately thought he was trying to pass it (stream was fuzzy) because I thought there was no way it could have been a shot.
It was that bad.
Should he? Didn’t some other guy from Duke go ahead of him? I can’t recall his name…something religious….like Yahweh or something…
Franks Sucks!
So far the team is plus 28 when he’s on the court. That leads the team. But I know, it’s all a 3 year accident that teams on both sides of the ocean play better when he’s on the court and the focus is on defense.
As I’ve been saying, fans will love Morris because he plays hard, but he’s a pinhead. Over time he will show he’s not that good.
Frank kinda looks better, but at least tonight he still isn’t making shots.
Taj is a good basketball player. Someone who needs a good big for the playoffs should trade for him!
If RJ can rebound and put up decent passing numbers I’m happy. As a rookie I’m not going to worry about his shooting as long as it doesn’t fall to Knox/Frank territory.
Looks like carrying the offense helps RJ on D too. That was my hope heading into the draft and seemed decent today. He definitely plays hard.
Barrett is going to be star. It will take a few years to iron out that shot and get consistent, he’s the goods! He can do a little of everything well and his defense looks fine to me.
i’m not really seeing it… there is more of a sense of urgency to his game and less hesitation but there’s a feeling that things are just moving a little too fast for him….
Does this Knicks team remind anybody of last year’s Heat team? That team was maybe one of the 5 least talented teams in the NBA but they won 39 games, and I think we have a notch more talent than that team (I actually think we have a considerable amount more talent than them but pick your battles, right?) If Fizdale isn’t a snake oil salesman, we have a shot at surprising people.
Admiral Schofield may potentially be one of the better names in the NBA.
Taj Gibson is one of the best players on the team. What a pro!
Well, if Taj keeps hiting threes like that, should be able to get a 1st rounder for him!
🙂
Also, Bobby Portis has nightmares of Taj Gibson shooting 3s. If that’s a real thing, Portis will never see the floor.
If they focus on defense and play the right players, they will win plenty of games.
Our bigs are having a tough time down low with a classical music composer…
when we don’t get to abuse mo wagner on every possession we can figure out how good this team really is…..
until then… let’s pump the brakes….
Seriously though if Morris and Gibson are shooting 3s we better get Milwaukee’s 1st round pick for them.
We can only hope!
🙂
Knox still doing that putting his head down and dribbling into three guys routine…
@267 you’re right. The Wizards are a high lottery team this season, but it’s still fun to see Knox rebound, Barrett be useful whether his shot falls or not, Gibson shoot 3s, and Mitch not foul anybody.
I thought Knox looked a little better for awhile, but then he sort of reverted to Knox of last year and threw up a few ill advised shots. He does so little well, he’s going to have to be a very efficient scorer to deserve minutes. He can’t afford to take dumb shots.
mitch has looked tired and sloppy since the first q
Whoever that Matthews kid on the Wizards is that was a real high difficulty 3 he just hit.
@274 reminds me of Bogdanovic a bit
He’s still ridiculously raw. He has no idea what he’s doing on either side of the court and is very limited offensively. On any real team he would not be a starter. He’s living entirely off athleticism on both sides, but he’s such an elite athlete he’s going to have some highlight plays and pretty boxscores.
The Wiz should play a bit of Ride of the Valkyries every time Wagner scores…
Frank’s +/- taking a hit these last couple of minutes…
Dude hit a shot over Frank AND Mitch!
RJ Barrett just hit two clutch free throws so all of you can kiss the rings.
I’m starting to like Barrett a LOT. He has a lot of skills and looks very advanced for a 19 year old. I’m sure there will be ups and downs and nights he pisses me off, but we drafted a very good basketball player. We all know what he has to do. He knows what he has to do. It may take a 2-3 years, but basketball IQ, mental toughness, or lack of effort won’t be the things that stop him. He can become a #1 or # 2 option on a very good team.
Disappointment of the night = Payton. He didn’t look like a starter on a good team.
Don’t worry the Knicks aren’t a good team
Barrett looked good. I liked some things that Knox and Frank did. Morris played great before the fake tough guy stuff. Gibson has a live body for a senior citizen. Trier disappointed.
good nite from most of the guys but this is not a good wiz team and they’re missing most of their good players at that….
rj is showing some real encouraging things… chief among them is that he’s not forcing stuff… and that’s when he’s at his best…. good to see the strong finish from summer league carrying over….
randle looks like he will be the focal point as we’ll see him facing up at the elbow a lot of the time…. it looked ok on one play but he’s still a bit sloppy for that to be too consistently good…. still that has some potential and i still think he’s in for a big year….
Hey Moritz Wagner, how many 3’s did you attempt and do you have a conscience?
“Nein”
I looked at a Wizards blog. They liked Barrett and didn’t like Mo Wagner. It’s going to be a tough year for them and they know it.
This was a more polished performance from RJ than I would have expected. For the most part he played within himself and picked his spots. He also played 39 minutes, which confirms my thoughts that he’s probably one of the team’s leaders in minutes this season.
I didn’t love him as a college player but he was a reasonable pick at #3 and he can do some things.
Hard to read much into a sloppy win over a bad team’s scrubs, but we certainly looked like a team that could win over 30 games.
RE: Barrett – maybe the best thing was that other than 1 play in which he did some dancing near the basket and got blocked, he looked under control the whole night.
Also 2 strong finishes to his off-hand — kid really does work hard on his weaknesses!