(Thursday, October 18, 2018 7:56:13 AM)
With Kristaps Porzingis out recovering from an ACL tear, the Knicks’ offense exploded for 126 points against the Hawks in the opener at Madison Square Garden.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 9:04:10 PM)
Knicks coach David Fizdale has compared 6-foot-5 rookie guard Allonzo Trier to Clippers reigning Sixth Man of the Year Lou Williams. Trier, a Seattle native, would be just as flattered if he were compared to a former Clippers Sixth Man of the Year, Jamal Crawford. Trier has befriended two fellow Seattle products and accomplished ex-Knicks…
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:12:53 PM)
“The Fiz Kids” are No. 1 in the NBA in two things. They are the league’s youngest team with an average age of 24.1 and — at least after one game — the fastest. The Knicks may or may not win 30 games, but they are young, athletic and have a head coach in David…
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:36:33 AM)
Knicks coach David Fizdale said his team’s goal is more than being better than Brooklyn. The Knicks and Nets will scrap Friday at Barclays Center in the season’s second game for both clubs. The teams split two preseason games against each other. Chatty Nets point guard Spencer Dinwiddie said during the preseason the Nets are…
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 8:24:43 AM)
Five takeaways from the Knicks’ season-opening 126-107 victory over the hapless Hawks — a game in which the club led by 28 points early in the third quarter. 1. David Fizdale’s decision to start Frank Ntilikina at the swing position paid off, and the coach didn’t care an iota about Ntilikina’s modest five-point, one-assist, 2-of-7 showing….
(Friday, October 19, 2018 5:36:18 AM)
In a 128-119 loss, James makes thrilling dunks but it was not enough against a strong finish by Portland.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 10:01:51 PM)
Eighteen-year-olds who previously played for Duke or Arizona may now be suiting up for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:00:09 AM)
His first trip to Los Angeles was for a basketball tournament as a teenager. Friends say it planted a seed that reached full bloom when he joined the Los Angeles Lakers.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 10:36:11 PM)
Knicks rookie Allonzo Trier, head coach David Fizdale, and backup center Noah Vonleh talk about the Knicks’ aggressive nature on both sides of the ball after their home opener.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:00:14 PM)
Choo! Choo! The Knicks Hype Train is rolling through MSG after last night’s opening-night beatdown against the Hawks.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 9:00:14 AM)
Knicks rookie Allonzo Trier erupted in the preseason and had a similar explosion during the Knicks’ opening night win over the Hawks. Here are five things you didn’t know about him…
67 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.10.19)”
Knox for Lonzo. Who says no?
I guess the Lakers say no (I would if I were them, there should be plenty of better offers when push comes to shove).
Maybe Knox plus a future first, but why would we do that now?
Lavar plus his difficulty shooting (but mainly Lavar) makes him a depressed asset.
There is no way that Lonzo should come here. This team is about chemistry and Lavar is poison.
That’s true, but supply and demand…
The Suns could easily send the Lakers Dragan Bender and Mikal Bridges; Detroit could send Luke Kennard and Stanley Johnson; the Bucks DiVincenzo e Thon Maker.
Underwhelming offers? Maybe so. But still better than Knox alone.
That’s also true, but Lonzo himself seems to be a good kid, and MSG could arrange something for Lavar to make him shut his pompous mouth. After all, Jimmy found a way for JD and the Straight Shot to open the Eagles concerts, can’t he find something to give Lavar some of the fame he craves for so much?
Lonzo for Knox/Burke/Dotson works in the trade machine. Dotson’s got a favorable contract and could be very valuable spotting up from 3 next to LBJ. Burke’s able to shoot and create (taking some of burden off LBJ). And even if Lakers don’t like Knox, they could then flip him for another player.
I have a feeling both Knicks and Lakers are gonna strike out in free agency. No way KD goes to Lakers and it doesn’t appear that Kawhi is that eager to play there. I suspect the Clippers will be the winners next summer ending up with one or both of KD and Kawhi. Kawhi’s people were tryin’ to push him to Knicks but we’re not very good and rumors were that Knicks were low on his personal list. It’s not clear that KP will be a #2 guy on a contender so no way KD chooses Knicks; KD was trolling when he liked that tweet about Frank.
I’d rather have Lonzo than Kemba, Rubio, or some middling 1 guard. One of Lonzo or Frank should end up a starting 1. Since we’re gonna strike out, let’s focus on the intermediate-term.
if LA trades Ball, it will be for whoever Lebron wants, and that won’t be Knox.
Knicks 1-0 tonight vs the 0-1 Nets. Real good chance we both come out of this .500
Lonzo for Knox is ridiculous; knicks would never bring the circus to town. Nor would they give up on their lottery pick in year one.
Why do u want lonzo and lavar?
Not interested in Lonzo or his brand at this point. Knox for Lonzo isn’t a bad trade on its face, but having a team that’s relatively free of drama is quite refreshing. There’s not a single player on this team that is poisonous in any way (unless you can’t see past Dotson’s history, which I totally can understand.)
(You could argue that the most annoying guy on the team right now is KP!)
Because the big thing this team lacks at the moment is a guy who makes plays for others. I still think Frank has the potential to be that guy, but he’s not there yet, and for the moment Fiz isn’t playing him much at point guard. And a Lonzo/Frank backcourt would be hellacious defensively.
The hope would be that at some point Lonzo tells his father to shut up or shove off, and/or that, as others have mentioned, Dolan finds some kind of celebrity showcase for Lavar that satisfies his craving for attention.
I would trade for Lonzo if we basically have to give up nothing to get him, otherwise keep his dad and the circus he brings along with him out of New York.
Lol at lonzo telling his dad to shove off!
It’s a package deal for the lakers and now it’s lebrons problem. And lebron has more pull than anyone so if he decides to send lonzo/lavar packing then guess what, I want nothing to do with that situation.
It’s a shame his father is going to ruin his sons career if that were to happen in la la land. All because of what? Jealousy
you know Lonzo shot 36% from the field last year, right? he didn’t even hit 50% of his free throws. A backcourt of him and Frank…..poor Kanter would be triple teamed inside. Plus he will make $8.7M next year and $11M the year after, while Knox is at 4 / 4.5, so that’s just less $$ we can use on free agents. Plus we need a SF / PF much more than a guard right now
There’s no way it would happen, if the Lakers are trading Lonzo Lebron’s going to want an established player in return, but if LA would trade Lonzo for Knox we should absolutely jump at it. Lonzo is a much, much better prospect at a position of need and I have significant doubts that Knox will pan out. Having to deal with the Lavar Ball circus would not be great but the Knicks are always a circus anyway.
What the Knicks need now is patience. There is potential on this team and if they’re going to lose as many games as our predictions say, we’ll end up with a good draft pick like Zion, Bolbol, Reddish, Barrett or Grimes. So next season we add KP and another stud kid to this young lineup. That’s the way to build championship teams. KP’s injury is a blessing in disguise. It’s how the 76’ers are making the leap. When you snarf up a bunch of high lottery picks, eventually it leads to a strong foundation.
We need Timmy to keep scoring so his value starts rising. We need to move that contract for an expiring.
You need some innate talent. If you are a smart hard working klutz you aren’t going to go very far. But the answer is generally YES. The 2 main drivers for success are intelligence and work ethic. Frank has boatloads of both and there’s enough innate talent there that I think his success is a mortal lock unless he gets hurt. In this case I’m defining success as a clearly net plus player that can handle the pressures of playing important minutes in very big games.
The only lonzo we need is already on the knicks, and he is already a trier above our other sg’s… ba dum bump!
The Lakers aren’t trading Lonzo for someone even younger than Lonzo.
@ 12 – so because of that, one game into the season, a rebuilding season at that, you want to make a trade for Lonzo Ball where we give up our rookie (who has one more cost controlled year) plus other assets to try and fix a problem on a team that is so far from being a finished product it doesn’t matter if we “fix” that problem now?
You just said you think Frank can grow into that role. Isn’t that what this season is for?
Are you really that down on Knox after a few shaky preseason and opening night games?
True but Knox might fetch more than Lonzo presuming Lakers want to trade Lonzo. Most teams are already set at the 1 position but there are lots of teams that could use a 3/4 type. That’s why I think a package of Burke/Dotson/Knox(or rather whatever Lakers get by flipping Knox) might be more attractive to them. Dotson would be under contract cheap in 2019-20 season and Lakers would have early bird rights to go over cap to re-sign Burke. Both Burke and Dotson are able to shoot which is critical playing next to Bron and I doubt Rondo is on team next year.
BTW the last two days I’ve unable to change my comments during the 5 minutes after I submit them. The option doesn’t even appear on the screen. Anybody else having this problem?
I think Kx can be good but if you can trade him for Lonzo it’s a no brainer.
Kp and Kx. I think I’m on to something here.
I would ship Knox out in a second for Lonzo. I’d also trade him for Steph Curry though and I think those two things have an equal chance of happening.
Dwight Howard sat out the Wiz season opener with a sore buttocks.
(There are so many easy jokes here I won’t bother, except to say he’s always been a pain in the ass.)
Lonzo is a way better prospect than Knox and is only in his 2nd year in the league. We’d make that trade not only because he fits the team’s needs better than Knox but because Lonzo’s almost certainly going to be a better player than Knox. All this is moot though because LA isn’t going to trade Lonzo for a rookie other than like Ayton or someone like that. Any Lonzo trade is going to have established NBA players going back to LA.
What I see in LA is a team that has little place for Lonzo’s ball dominant style of play. I am not sure how he is going to match with Lebron there.
Knicks may really be figuring it out as an organization now. Some good young players who won’t win but who might be part of something special if you add an elite draft pick, an excellent FA, and get KP back. I know we’re all used to the worst happening but what if Knox and Ntilikina DID work out? What if Trier and Mitchell Robinson become rotation type NBA players? There’s more than that to feel good about as well. I agree with #17 that after a few years of valuing assets correctly the cupboard doesn’t look so bare. Maybe you get some upside to show itself. Maybe your coach actually shows upside himself and gets players to develop. If you have enough assets you actually can swing and miss on a couple.
I truly doubt we’ll be the better team on most nights this season but I’m hoping that next season we can start thinking about our ascent up the standings…
All that is a preamble to say no on Lonzo. I don’t have much faith in Knox but I’d love to be surprised and see him become the next Giannis. You’d have to think about making that straight up swap of course but LB has too many question marks. And if it means giving up multiple assets, click…
Just stay the course NYK. Let’s sunset our bad decisions of the past and make solid ones going forward. Not time to push the chips in. If we’re a little better than we expected this season it’ll be because Knox is a little better than we expected. So, we’ll make the best of another 8 or 9 pick.
Then NO FA’s THAT DON’T MOVE THE NEEDLE. No Kemba…We saw that movie in 2010. Front office is supposed to know better than us. That actually could be happening (maybe.)
I love that people are debating a trade that will never happen for a player who is just as flawed as the players we currently have too many of. Yes, let’s add another guard who can’t do one of the things he needs to do! Because we only have four of them right now!
I mean, is Lonzo better than Knox, and likely to always be better than Knox? Sure. Does Lonzo fit next to LeBron? Not so much. Does any of that add up to it making sense to trade for him, even Knox, a player I think very little of? No.
538 projections are up. Knicks get 23 wins and finish 2nd from bottom behind Kings:
Yes Lavar is a major issue in any discussion of Lonzo’s value. But Lonzo, for all of his problems, was still a pretty useful player last season. His rebounding, steals and assist numbers were very advanced for a rookie his age and he still managed to put up a .53 WS/48 despite his shooting woes. He’s a perfect candidate to buy low because the Lakers seem bent upon depressing his value this season as the third ballhandler on their team behind Lebron and Rondo.
Wait, did 538 have the same prediction total as I did? What a bunch of Nostradumbasses!
The idea that intelligence or work ethic can turn a decent NBA player into a great one is fucking crazy. This isn’t “learn to be a mid-level manager for a regional paper supply company,” it’s the fucking NBA dude. The fucking NBA.
Me and Jowles are agreeing on way too much shit lately. He must be on the wagon since he got hitched.
Maybe not decent to “great,” but I can see two physically and athletically talented players- player A and B, where player A is slightly better in high school than B, and yet B ends up much better since he decided to shoot 1000 threes a day in practice. Come on. You don’t think Korver was smart and hard-working enough to get to where he was three years ago? You don’t think JR Smith with intellegence and effort can be a much, much better player? You don’t think if someone brainwashed Melo into playing within a team and driving or catch-and-shooting he’d be much better? If LeBron didn’t give a shit, would he have gotten to where he is??
Where I agree with you is that the IQ/Effort thing is probably built in to players’ numbers, so Korver always had IQ/Effort, so it was always in his stats. But I think most of the “jump” some players took, like say Giannis, was at least partly IQ/Effort, IN ADDITION TO RAW TALENT.
If you are going to disagree with me you should at least disagree with what with I said instead of making some other point and pretending you are refuting the original point.
Frank is very unlikely to become a great player because the gap between where he is now and greatness is a long trip and rare outcome. However, he is very likely to get a lot better because he’s very smart (“sponge” is the word I keep hearing) and by all account spends more time in the gym and film room than anyone on the team. So if you look at the data on the probability of some random young player getting a lot better, I am telling you that a very smart hard worker like Frank will do a lot better than the average player. Given where his is on defense now, IMO that makes him a mortal lock to be a very good player on a net basis if he stays healthy. All the Frank “bears” are wrong. The boxscore doesn’t come close to measuring his value correctly now and it won’t later either when he’s much better on offense.
It was the effort of Starks that made him good, and it was the skill of Starks that kept him from being great.
And that can probably be said about a lot of NBA players.
right now – i’d prefer josh hart over lonzo ball…lonzo may have a higher ceiling down the road, right now though – josh hart seems like the better player…
I am telling you that a very smart hard worker like Frank will do a lot better than the average player.
How smart and hard working is the average NBA player? How much above that is Frank? You think Marcus Smart hasn’t worked like a maniac to improve his shot?
The argument for Frank is that he is already so good on defense that he doesn’t need to improve that much on offense to be a quality rotation player. If he can get to shooting high-30s% on spot up 3s at some point in his career, that is a pretty valuable player. He’s already a great defender with the potential to be dominant.
Honestly, this is yet another time that Stratomatic makes a big, general claim, hears opinions to the contrary, and then tells people to prove his claim isn’t true.
I’m looking at Derrick Rose’s -0.6 BPM in his rookie season and then his 5.9 BPM in his (undeserving) MVP year, and thinking about how intelligent he must have been to improve so much in two years. Nevermind that he has the vocabulary of a 6th grader and couldn’t meet the ACT requirements for D-1 schools three separate times.
Then I’m thinking about the myriad guys in league history with terrible, terrible free-throw form (the one thing on a basketball court that requires almost no fitness/traditional athleticism) who’ve worked for thousands of hours to improve from, say, a 50% to a 60% shooter.
Of course this is an outlier, but since we are speaking in vague generalities about how hard work and intelligence cannot make a basketball player great at the NBA level I do want to raise one prominently obvious example of a player without any prodigious basketball talent when he was drafted 16th overall out of college who went on to become an all-time great NBA player, arguably the most efficient and greatest to ever man his position, with multiple all time records to his credit. This was someone who was drafted from college at age 21/22, didn’t become a full time starter until he was 24-25 and wasn’t an all-star until he was 25-26. Even said player admitted as much in his HOF induction when he said not once was he ever the best player on the small college basketball program he was drafted out of. And yet I can’t count the number of all time NBA players on my one hand that I’d rather have on my team at his position.
Marcus smart came to the NBA older than Frank and hit below 30% of his 3s in college. So he was coming in with some serious shooting limitations. However, I have no idea how smart or hard working he is.
I just know by all accounts that Frank is exceptional at both because everyone says the same things about him always being in the gym and film room. He also plays with a high IQ on both ends despite his limitations on offense now. Frank has excellent shooting form and hit over 36% of his 3s in France covering the regular season and playoffs as a kid. He didn’t come to the US with a reputation as a brick thrower and he didn’t look like a brick thrower last year. He hit 32% last year. That’s not so bad at 19 when you have the lack of confidence he had. It’s going to get better.
If Frank is so smart and hard working, why has he played thousands of minutes of competitive basketball and still doesn’t have the handle of an average D1 point guard?
Do you EVER (and I mean EVER) actually respond to the point being made or going off to find some exception. Of course there are players that become better without being especially bright or hard working. It’s called talent.
I have no idea how hard working Rose was when he was young. Based on how he came back from so many serious injuries I’d be willing to bet he was a crazy hard worker. Most players would have retired. He did not. However, I will say that if you gave Rose an extra 20 points on his basketball IQ he would have taken the talent he developed through hard work even further and become a more efficient scorer. He would have recognized how much efficiency matters and then started changing his game.
Is Frank even as old as the average D1 starting point guard?
Frank’s handle is already better than it was last year, but mostly for the same reasons as anyone else. He’s taller and longer than the typical PG and didn’t have the role of dominant primary ball handler in France. So he didn’t have to develop it as much.
He’s going to get better, but he’s probably never going to be Alonzo Trier. 🙂
If Fizdale is going to develop him as more of a wing or co guard, it’s probably not going to be as much of a focus as it was when we were trying to force him out of triangle mode (which is what he was drafted to do) into being a traditional PG. He’ll improve his handle further though. The tapes of his work on his handle became public because he knows he need work. You can see that he already has gotten better.
Honestly, I don’t see this as in any way complicated or controversial.
If you have “x” talent and you are dumb as a bag of rocks and lazy as a sloth you are not going to go near as far as someone with “x” talent that’s smart as a tack and working his ass off. We could easily debate Frank’s natural talent level, but what I am saying is pretty basic. He’s 20 and he’s already a high level defender. So much so, the gap between where he is now and being a very good all around basketball player is not going to require huge improvement on offense. With his talent, at his age, with his smarts, and with his work ethic I think it’s a no brainer he’s going to be very good.
guys, please stop arguing. we are undefeated.
Ah yes, if only Russ Westbrook had a decent work ethic, he could have a Curry-like 3PT shot.
If only Kobe were an intelligent basketball player, he’d stop shooting long contested twos.
If only Dennis Rodman played hard, he’d learn to score on the block.
and, fittin to stay that way…at least for one more game…maybe…
‘ol frank got his dancing shoes on…
See, I believe that “handle” is an innate skill and something that can’t be developed all that much. You can improve on it a bit, but dribbling is a fundamental building block of basketball.
It’s like having an infield prospect with a 30/80 arm. That’s a guy that is going to be playing first base. No matter how much he does throwing drills, no matter what kind of strength program you put him on, a guy with a 30/80 arm is not going to be playing third base in the major leagues. Because throwing is an innate skill. You throw the ball from the first time you step on the diamond when you’re six years old. Dribbling/handle seems to be the same thing to me. If you can’t really dribble a basketball well by the time you’re 20, you’re probably not going to be figuring it out at the NBA level. The literal first thing you do when you pick up a basketball is dribble the fucking thing.
The good news is that Frank doesn’t need to develop a PG-quality handle to make it in the NBA. He can do other things. And this particular coach seems to recognize that, and has turned his attention to what Frank CAN do rather than what he CAN’T do. It’s better to be smart than dumb, and it’s better to be hard working than lazy, but it’s also very important to be developed in the right way. I’m glad that this coaching staff seems to recognize that Frank Ntilikina, NBA Point Guard is not really going to be a thing. It seems like they’re developing him as an off-ball guard, which is the correct thing. Sending him out for 2,000 minutes and pretending he’s a point guard would have been a waste of development time.
Honestly, the bickering…
Two old Jewish women sit down at a local restaurant to catch the early bird special…
Their waiter takes their orders, brings out the food, and then goes to wait on a different table.
Five minutes later, he decides to check in on the two women.
He comes up to their table, and with a bright and chipper smile asks:
“Good evening ladies, is anything alright?”
This is what this blog reminds me of, from time to time.
By the way, Lebron is going to MAKE Lonzo into a very good player, or else…
Lebron also is one of those players, not unlike Jordan, who simply will direct it. And if Lonzo’s father won’t be an issue with a guy like Lebron there. Just not happening.
Lebron will have that kid either playing better or gone, and if he is gone, we don’t want him.
oh yeah, in case you haven’t heard the latest…KD is a lock to be a knick next season…and, miracles of miracles – james dolan may not own the knicks and rangers much longer:
I too believe round pegs should be in round holes.
Not being snide. I have always felt Frank would be better at the deuce.
The idea that intangible factors don’t matter to how much of a player’s potential they fulfill is silly. Equally silly is concluding that Frank is some kind of outlier on the intangibles distribution of NBA players (they’re intangible for a reason) based on maybe reading once in an article somewhere that someone called him a “sponge”. This is a silly argument.
Maybe because he never considered himself a point guard until he encountered the parallel universe of the triangle where Ron Harper is worshiped as a prototypical lead guard!
Those team D rating with him on and off the floor are remarkable because they measure actual results.
geo, you need to put up a link to whatever article you’re quoting.
Unless you’re baby Melo, who was working on his jab step before he could walk.
I don’t see how taking the ball out of a guard’s hands is better for their development in the long-term. It’s not as if ball-handling is a skill exclusive to the point guard position. Even if Frank were to end up as an off-guard, working on his handle in game situations will greatly benefit his offensive utility as he matures into whatever he will mature into. He’s still going to have to crossover, bring the ball down court, and run parts of the offensive system as a #2 guard. I don’t see why he shouldn’t be given an opportunity to work on those things at the #1 in a tank season so he can evolve different aspects of his game. Why restrict his development into a specialized offensive role at a point where he is still so young, learning the NBA game, and playing on a team that is competing for last place? Because he’s not a particularly good ball-handler? Well guess what? Lonzo Ball is still shooting threes as an off-guard despite sucking ass at it. This argument makes little sense to me.
Ian Begley’s twitter: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1053336046358986754
Mitch is playing. Courtney and Mudiay still out. We’ve died and gone to rotation heaven (also we’re going to lose).
I just know by all accounts that Frank is exceptional at both because everyone says the same things about him always being in the gym and film room.
But the point is how much better is Frank at that than anyone else in the NBA. My purely anecdotal observation from having watched the league for a few decades now is that there are fewer lazy players now than ever before and more players spending more time than ever in the gym and the film room. I mean, Larry Bird supposedly never lifted a weight in his life until late in his career and it wouldn’t surprise me if Magic Johnson spent less time watching film than the average shlub player today.
It’s not that Frank can’t develop. It’s that lots of guys work hard and lots of guys are smart and they never develop the way you are assuming Frank will.