(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 10:03:09 PM)
The Knicks were 0-for-9 when the fan sunk his half-court shot.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:48:29 AM)
Trey Burke is poised to open the season as the Knicks‘ starting point guard, which means he’s in line to lock in a partial guarantee on his salary for 2018/19. According to Basketball Insiders’ salary data, Burke’sÂ $1,795,015 salary for the coming season is mostly non-guaranteed, with only a modest $100K partial guarantee. However, as long […]
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 10:40:00 PM)
A fan hit a shot before the Knicks did.
That’s how bad it started Wednesday in the season opener for the home team, which missed its first nine field goals and watched spectator George Holmes from Northport celebrate his halfcourt heave for $10,000.
But New York’s struggles ended at that moment…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 10:40:00 PM)
David Fizdale had never, with a decade of experience as a head coach or an assistant, entered a season without the expectation of winning.
Until he joined the Knicks.
Now, as Fizdale explained ahead of his New York coaching debut Wednesday against the Hawks, he’s reaching for a lower bar.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 10:35:00 PM)
Knicks president Steve Mills believes “we’re in a good place” with Kristaps Porzingis despite not giving the All-Star forward an extension by Monday’s deadline.
In an interview with ESPN Radio, Mills said he was straightforward with Porzingis agent and brother, Janis, about their plans and, “We…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 5:10:00 PM)
It can’t get anymore Knicks than this.
Everyone knows David Fizdale’s team is in for a rough season as the team continues its overdue rebuild.
But, well, not even this was expected during the Knicks opener Wednesday night against the Hawks.
A fan nailed a half court shot for $10,000 during a break…
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:00:09 AM)
His first trip to Los Angeles was for a basketball tournament as a teenager. Friends say it planted a seed that reached full bloom when he joined the Los Angeles Lakers.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 5:56:24 AM)
Caris LeVert had 27 points, but he was unable to score with the game on the line in the closing seconds, sending Brooklyn to a frustrating loss.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 3:51:11 AM)
They won’t all come as easy as the Knicks’ 126-107 win on opening night, but their new coach could be the breath of fresh air they need to endure it.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:14:59 PM)
Salaries have never been higher and the glamour of the N.B.A. is at a fever pitch, which means representing players is brutally competitive.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:50:23 PM)
Boston established itself as a clear favorite in the Eastern Conference with an opening-night drubbing of the Philadelphia 76ers.
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 12:51:23 AM)
On opening night, the Knicks’ three rookies ran the gamut. There was the good (Allonzo Trier scoring 15 points), the bad (Kevin Knox making just 4-of-16 shots) and the unfortunate (Mitchell Robinson tweaking his ankle in just over a minute of action) in the Knicks’ 126-107 rout of the Hawks at the Garden on Wednesday…
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 12:38:00 AM)
Noah Vonleh looked at the roster, saw its youth, players with a similar story to his, heard coach David Fizdale’s mandate on the importance of development, and knew the Knicks were the right move. It sure seemed like a good fit on opening night for the 23-year-old forward. Taking advantage of extra playing time after…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:55:16 PM)
Look, there is nothing wrong with savoring what you saw Wednesday night. There is nothing wrong with admitting you got a little caught up in the frenetic pace the Knicks employed, and the fact that for the first time since Prohibition there were basketball players wearing Knicks uniforms who actually looked interested in defense. There…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 6:01:56 PM)
Don’t get used to it, but David Fizdale’s youthful Knicks created fireworks, a fast pace and history on opening night. Scoring a franchise-record 49 points in the second quarter and with Tim Hardaway Jr. adjusting superbly to his No. 1 option role, the Knicks captured their season opener with a 126-107 pounding of the even-younger…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:23:42 PM)
Knicks president Steve Mills said he has no evidence of Kristaps Porzingis being unhappy that he didn’t get his rookie $158 million contract extension at Monday’s deadline. It was a foregone conclusion for months the Knicks would wait until he became a restricted free agent. Had they extended Porzingis, the club would have had little…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:54:14 PM)
It took former Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek into March before he gave Frank Ntilikina his first NBA start. New coach David Fizdale didn’t waste any time — even if it meant making the gutsy decision to sit this year’s prized lottery pick, Kevin Knox, for Wednesday’s season opener against the Hawks at the Garden. Whatever…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:32:06 PM)
David Fizdale took comfort in the familiar most of the day Wednesday. Coaches are like that. Routines are sacraments to them. He led the Knicks through their shootaround — just another game day, 1 of 82 — and he drove to Madison Square Garden, and he studied film and he thought, a lot, about the…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:09:39 AM)
Lloyd Pierce’s expectations are high for Jeremy Lin’s first game as a Hawk. “I’m looking to recreate Linsanity tonight,” the Hawks coach joked Wednesday. When those comments were relayed to Lin following Wednesday’s shootaround at the Garden, he froze, like he had seen a ghost. When told it was in jest, the reference to his…
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 8:37:34 AM)
It’s going to be a long season for Kevin Durant. The rumors about Durant opting out and leaving the Warriors this offseason have been running rampant, with the Knicks mentioned as a possible destination. “I just want people to focus on basketball,” Durant told Yahoo Sports after scoring 27 points in Golden State’s 108-100 season-opening…
(Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:03:27 AM)
NEW YORK — The Knicks’ unveiling of their shiny new lottery pick three years ago went a little bit differently.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 8:13:47 PM)
WATCH: Fan makes half-court shot to win $10,000
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:09:55 PM)
Knicks President Steve Mills said on the Michael Kay Show that the team is happy with its decision not to extend Kristaps Porzingis before he is set to become a restricted free agent next summer.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 6:17:07 PM)
NEW YORK — The David Fizdale era kicks off for the New York Knicks on Wednesday night as they open their season with a visit from the Atlanta Hawks at 7:30 p.m. at Madison Square Garden.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:23:02 PM)
With James taking his talents this time to the Western Conference with the Lakers, Enes Kanter won’t be seeing his newfound rival that often.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 12:25:01 PM)
Kevin Durant doesn’t want to talk about free agency much, but he and those around him keep fanning the flames that he’ll leave the Warriors after this season — potentially for the Knicks.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:07:23 PM)
Kevin Knox has the support of at least one Knicks legend, even if it’s one who still isn’t on the best terms with the franchise.
(Wednesday, October 17, 2018 9:38:57 AM)
The Knicks are on the hook for the remaining $37.8 million on Joakim Noah’s contract, but GM Scott Perry said the team is in better shape after waiving the big man rather than dealing him.
100 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.10.18)”
It’s like Atlanta looked at the Celtics -Sixers trade and were like ‘this is the kind of 3D chess move Ainge would make – we can get the better player and an additional pick’ but forgot to actually scout the players involved. Maybe, just maybe if the pick from dallas lands unexpectedly) super-high this deal looks ok in hindsight but right now it’s so bad…
We have about 10% of the information that they do, and we still (on the whole) knew that it was a terrible, terrible trade. Atlanta has no idea what they’re doing.
Hey, at least the Hawks got what should be a lottery pick out of the deal. Imagine being Sacramento and just flat-out taking Bagley over Doncic.
I think Atlanta thinks they can develop Trae Young into a really good player and that they’re going to suck this year and then draft another kid they hope to develop into a really good player. I think just taking Doncic is a surer bet than what they’re doing, but I think they do have a plan.
And imagine being Sacramento and watching as your 2019 lottery pick goes to Boston.
Did you guys even watch the Mavs game? Doncic is a bust.
I did not know Boban could dunk without jumping….
The Suns are pretty close to turning around. They have a few good young pieces.
Mikal Bridges not getting any run yet.
BREAK UP THE KNICKS!
lol sorry..had to do it
It was a fun game to watch last night. Do we go 2-0 tomorrow before we get blown out by the Celts?
Even Woj thinks Durant to Knicks is credible. He’s not reporting it, mind you. Just on one of those ESPN talking heads segments.
He’s also putting forth one of my points:
We’ve become conditioned to think players leave to chase rings. That’s not the only reason for player movement. This particular summer, all the big free agents have rings. Durant, Kyrie, Kawhi, even down the line with Klay. Jimmy Butler is the only one without a ring. So we’re probably going to see people making different types of decisions.
No one is chasing Jordan anymore. People are imitating LeBron now. Golden State was Durant’s Miami. Now he needs his “win one for a sad franchise” move that will make him immortal. Look at the list of teams that expect to have enough cap space to sign Durant and tell me why we shouldn’t be on top of his list after Golden State:
Atlanta, Brooklyn, Chicago, Dallas, Indiana, both LA teams, New York, Philadelphia, Sacramento, Utah
Anyone read this? Holy shit if that is true.
Good breakdown, with lots of supporting film clips, on Knox’s difficulties in finishing at the rim. The primary issue seems to be that he’s taking off too far away from the basket, which makes it harder to finish and also harder to draw a whistle. That’s the sort of thing that should be correctable, and he already has the aggressive mindset and the motor.
Philly, Utah, and Indiana are all a lot better than us?
@14 if you listened to Fiz post game press conference he talks about how he has been coaching Knox to take an extra dribble to get closer to the rim before taking off. So looks like Fiz gets it. Fiz has been pretty impressive on early returns more than just talk.
Vonleh seemed to be in all of the right places last night. His reaction to a steal attempt and adjustment before handing off the ball to THJ was impressive. While the rest of the Knicks were flying around the court he stayed controlled and offered support inside and out.
The cerebral musicality of Jazz mixed with the visceral groove of funk. Imagine that – what a combo!
^ In which you prove my point:
Kevin Durant is going to Utah or Indiana because they have better rosters than us. Right. I’m sure that will happen. Value-oriented roster construction is his siren’s song.
“Fiz has been pretty impressive on early returns more than just talk.”.
Agree, so far so good.
Any info on Mitch Rob’s injury?
That was all well and good last night but someone needs to remind THJR that the Knicks should be tanking this year. Don’t do that too often.
what did you guys think of the minutes distribution last night? I know the blowout helped, but only Frank played over 30 (34). I like burke, kanter, hardway, knox and trier all in the 20s, although i can see Tim and Kanter being over 30 in close games. vonleh is about right at 16, I guess if Lance is going to start, 16 is right. Mario at 19 may be 4 minutes too much. I definitely don’t see Ron Baker playing 27 minutes often, although I fear 1/2 of those go to Mudiay. We have to find 15 mins for Mitch; I wonder if that can come from Ron by playing a little bigger?
I’m deeply skeptical but if you’re going with the idea the free agency decision is about legacy for KD, the story of winning in Utah/Philly/Indiana doesn’t hold a candle to winning with the Knicks.
Does anyone outside of Utah or Indiana give a shit if the Jazz or Pacers win a title? Past that, joining the Jazz doesn’t shake the frontrunner label. If Philly wins, the story will be more about the Ghost of Sam Hinkie than KD as messiah.
The Knicks are the Cubs of the NBA: major market, beloved team, perennial punchline. You are not decidedly a front runner if you come here. But really, that narrative should already be starting to turn. These aren’t Isiah’s Knicks. Barring a trade, they will use their own first round pick three straight years for the first time since 90, 91, 92, which is an insane state. Their roster has several players on their first contract with potential. Except for Courtney Lee, even our vets are young vets.
If your #1 goal is to amend your legacy with a redemption arc, you could argue that the Knicks provide the biggest potential payoff. AND, you could argue, they’re already well on their way to turning a corner simply by allowing the NBA life cycle to play out. It’s one of the better places for a frontrunner with a little bit of vision and patience (to blow out his knee/back/achilles and collect fat checks for a few years while fans count down his contract).
Honestly, I’m just miss the Boosh. Surprised they didn’t make it into the KB TV recommendations. Who doesn’t love a good BBC-radio-show-turned-stage-show-turned-TV-show that hasn’t been on the air in a decade?
It was good, particularly Frank getting the most time. He’s young and can run forever, and he’s the key to our defense.
And Fizdale has said he’d prefer that nobody average more than 28 minutes a game, due to how much he wants the team to run, which is one of the reasons we played such a big rotation last night. If Robin’s ankle is okay and once Lee gets a few practices under his belt, we could theoretically have a 12-man rotation:
C: Kanter, Vonleh, Robinson
PF: Thomas, Knox
SF: Frank, Hezonjah
SG: Hardaway, Lee, Trier
PG: Burke, Baker
With guys shifting around from position to position. 10 is probably closer to ideal in the long run, but this group is definitely workable.
If KD wants to leave maybe the best team of all time he’s probably not as focused on going to a team with really good teammates. For storyline purposes the Knicks would be good, but so would the Wizards or the Clippers
Nicely slammed the door shut at the end there before too much optimism could creep in
I believe that Breen said that Kevin Knox is the youngest player in the history of the franchise. His coachability really stands out to me.
This sounds a lot like a re-telling of the ‘NY offers players so many intangibles beyond basketball that players will want to come here’ narrative. We’re not a destination. If you want to argue that Durant might come here because the money doesn’t work in GS anymore and he doesn’t want to live in a small town after his years in OKC then sure. I could see that being a possibility. But this ‘NYC offers top players the perfect redemption arc to cement their legacy like Lebron did’ narrative is ridiculous. You’re using post-move PR speak as a justification for why the move should happen. Obviously players make choices based on things other than winning rings, but saving the Knicks from being shit is only a reason in the minds of fans.
For that analogy to work, he would have to be the only vehement Frank supporter on the blog. Which he’s quite obviously not.
vonleh looked pretty freaking athletic out there…not sure exactly what his issues were prior to this season…but, man is he strong and can jump…
since it doesn’t look like we’ll be using a pass first point guard this year – trey better watch out – allonzo is coming to steal his minutes…
Does that mean that stat is “fake news” or maybe it just doesn’t fit certain narratives?
Most of today’s players are too young to remember NYK as anything other than a sad sack franchise. Durant was what, like six years old when the Ewing/Oakley/Starks Knicks were a thing?
These guys don’t know or care about the “mecca of basketball” and all that shit, and they don’t know the Garden as some exciting place. It’s the place you come when you want to pick up an easy road win for most of these guys, and it’s been that way for a very long time.
Considering the analogy’s author I would guess the latter.
This group of Knicks looks like the most athletic and best conditioned Knick team since the Riley era. It wouldn’t surprise me if Fiz didn’t develop that mentality in Miami. Even Baker and Kanter look more athletic to me. Teams will no longer look forward to a night off against the Knicks.
With Frank’s penchant for ubiquitousness on the floor defensively, I’m calling him the Scarlet Pimpernel from now on!
” “They seek him here, they seek him there
Those Frenchies seek him everywhere
Is he in heaven or is he in hell?
That demned elusive Pimpernel””
ruruland : Melo :: DRed : Ron Baker
Are we doing SAT prep today?????
That’s not the argument. The argument is if you’re going to leave the best teammates on the planet, you’ve probably got another motivation besides seeking out the best teammates.
If Durant wants to branch out and be a primary ballhandler, playing with Ben Simmons isn’t the best move, either. If he wants a challenge, leaving the best team in the West for the second best team probably isn’t the best move, either.
My opinion is that we’ve moved from everyone chasing Jordan to everyone chasing LeBron, we just haven’t picked up on it yet. Durant already mimicked LeBron’s first career move when he joined the Warriors. The next move is seeking out a tall individual challenge that’s doable but not impossible. It has nothing to do with NYC and it’s imaginary intangibles. It’s just a challenge. Like winning Cleveland’s first title.
in my younger years, was in and out of penn station a whole bunch…i think though the only time i’ve ever been to the garden is to go watch earth, wind and fire play there in the early 80’s…first time i ever saw someone roll up a dollar bill and stick it in there nose – i was like, wtf is that 🙂
and, it’s been a long time since i’ve been on the streets of manhattan…no question though – being in new york city – feels different, particularly if you’re not used to it, especially if you’re there during the week…i gotta imagine the crowd in the garden is a very unique and intense one…
it’s still the mecca…and, even if someone is too young to remember the garden fielding a team worthy of respect…the myth of the garden is still going to be real – especially to younger folks whom are always hungry for myths and legends…
But LeBron, for example, always cared A LOT about playing in the MSG (not for the Knicks, but against them). It’s visible. I do think that New York is a possible destination for KD, if the Knicks have a second star and a functional roster by then.
Many people were signaling LeBron to the Lakers months before he actually signed there, by reading between the lines and looking at small details. Credible journalists are doing the same with KD now. New York City is a media capital. Of course Durant is not the same business force as James, but the comparison makes sense. It bothers him that he’s always seen as second to LeBron. If he wins in NYC, after such a drought, he would possibly cement his legacy as a top-10 player. It’s not like winning something in freaking CLEVELAND, since other teams in town have won dozens of titles since 1973, but it would be close.
But, anyway, everybody knows that by now. Let’s just sit, wait and keep our cap space.
Hubert, geo and I thought almost the same thing at the same time.
P.S.: longtime lurker, post only a dozen times during the season, going to change my nickname to “Kevin Knix”.
The idea of Durant as a primary ball-handling point forward is really intriguing because we know he has the handle and vision to do it but never had the personnel to assume the responsibility for an entire season. Such a role would complete his career evolution into the complete offensive nightmare of his generation rivaling Lebron’s legacy. In OKC he had to play with high usage guards Harden and Westbrook while in Golden State he was a cog in an offensive machine which had Steph and Draymond already assume those duties most of the time both were healthy. But can you imagine the pick and roll/pop potential between him and KP? Two mobile 7 fters with range? Its scary.
Decent on defense and terrible on offense.
I remember an article some years ago where even Billy Donovan and his coaching staff already envisioned Durant averaging at least 7 assists per game, but it’s way difficult to do that playing alongside Westbrook, Curry and Draymond Green. He has that 32-10-8 line in him, if he wants it.
I’m asking myself that once someone has a ring and has the money what is left? In KD’s case I think it’s logical to think he’s looking for respect and love. Let’s be honest about it. Nobody respected his move to the Warriors. Nobody thinks he was the reason that they won. The theory behind him coming here is that he has the ring and the cash and now he wants the love.
The minute distribution was fine. It’s not like we’re rolling out LeBron, KD, AD, Steph and Westbrook. Nobody on this team deserves 40+ minutes on the floor. The difference between these Knick players is minute. How much better is Ntilikina than Baker? Kanter than Vonleh? By having everyone play a bit less, more guys are involved and there’s less jealousy. Unless there are superstars on the team, why not share the floor? And with this fast-paced run-and-gun offense, giving guys a breather is smart.
I think the timing of when the Knicks will be a contender will be a factor in whether Durant chooses NY. Durant is 30 years old. On our current glide path we are probably 4-6 years away from this team reaching its peak. At that stage KP will still be young and guys like Knox and our next draft pick will be starting to peak. That’s not a good window for Durant. That’s why I keep saying we sort of need KP to come back and finish strongly down the stretch. That might alter the perception of when the team can win. Durant may be willing to sacrifice a single year the way Lebron is now in LA, but he’s not going to sacrifice 2 years unless coming to NY is entirely about business, brand, and money. Another possibility is opening up enough space to fit Durant and at least 1 other quality starter (though not a max player). The only other possibility is a huge upside surprise somewhere on the team now.
The one time Durant was the primary ball handler was actually the Thunder’s best season ever. They won 59 games (Westbrook missed a majority of that season and Harden was in Houston) and Durant won MVP even though we all know his mom is the real MVP. He averaged 32, 7, and 5 that season and lost in the WCFs to eventual champ San Antonio.
We’re pretty much in the same place as the Cavs were when 30 year old LeBron bolted a Finals team to join them.
Young sidekick: Porzingis/Kyrie
Overrated young volume scorer who probably gets traded for an established teammate: Knox/Wiggins
Overpaid mediocre 2 guard: Hardaway/Waiters
They had Tristan and Varaejo. We’ve got Mitchell, Frank, Trey, and a top 5 pick.
I have no idea what KD’s motivation might be in leaving GS – and I don’t think anyone else knows either. But the point people made a few times here – that from a winning point of view, there’s nowhere better he could go and so it can’t be that – is valid. I don’t buy that they can’t keep the band together – if they’re a 5+ title dynasty, I think they’ll wear the tax.
In that situation, where KD leaves anyway, then I do think the narrative linking him to the Knicks makes some sense. We’ve sucked forever but there’s still a buzz about NY that isn’t true of Indiana or Utah etc. Winning here would immortalise his legacy.
But for it to come to pass we really are threading a needle – we have to suck enough this year to continue our natural evolution through the draft while also being good enough to make him think he can be the difference to contention. That’s a very fine line.
What strato types while I was typing – +1. A late but great cameo from KP and clearing enough space for a second FA – those moves make the needle much easier to thread!
One interesting take from what Woj and others are reporting about the priorities of the top FA’s is that it, if true, it would very quickly lead to a league with far too much concentration of talent to one with much more parity which would be nice for a change in the NBA.
ps: anyone who thinks the idea of winning in the country’s largest market coming off a close to 50 year drought isn’t significantly more appealing than doing so in Utah or Indiana is not in touch with reality.
Something like that to get the 3rd amigo would probably do the trick IF we were willing to go ALL IN next year.
The “if” is why I suggested perhaps just bringing in a solid starter for less if we could open that room. Then we’d be really solid with a lot of upside even if there was 1 year of development and getting playoff experience for the young players.
Madison Square Garden is an alluring attraction, it’s undeniable. There’s a reason every visiting star in the league from Jordan to Kobe to Lebron has always sought to play their biggest games there and its not necessarily because the Knicks are a daunting opponent. The idea of a “basketball Mecca” denotes the concept of a regular pilgrimage to a revered and sacred site, a center of gravity that attracts devotees of game to its grounds. You can bet every NBA star has their scheduled game in the Garden marked on their calendar as a night to shine with the whole world watching. The problem, it seems, is that the Knicks have been handled like such a joke for so long that even some Knicks fans have forgotten this allure. But all it takes is for a tangible sign that a solid foundation for success is being built there by competent and well-regarded men for other star players to notice. In, other words, if Knicks management builds a core free agents will come.
@56 unless their name is Carmelo Anthony and they are so insecure that they need to show their value and gut their destination team through trade instead of waiting 6 months and joining a nice young core. #notbitter.
this seems like a good idea…any potential issues to the nba going forward with this plan?
Has the union weighed in on this? Also, it’s still a garbage deal compared to simply being able to declare for the draft. Age discrimination has no place in our “free market” system.
If Knox, Mitch and Trier play like three first round picks the first half of the year (and to a lesser extent Vonleh who is only 23), shouldn’t we be more open to making a future 1st rounder (not this one coming up) available to either unload $ for a free agent or in a trade? We may have beat the system by getting three in one year. Why not take advantage?
It’s attractive if the rest of your house is in order. It’s not attractive when you’re shit.
I know we’re still shit, but I think the perception of us is slowly changing. Part of it is Porzingis. The downside to his hype is that we have to pay him more than he’s earned. The upside is that players think he’s the real deal.
KP not playing at all actually makes it easier to thread.
No, because you want to show Durant that his future sidekick is healthy and playing like he’s capable of. So in this scenario, KP has to play at least a dozen games or so.
The argument was that players make moves for things other than just winning rings. Obviously true. The follow-up was that winning in NY would be better than anywhere else that has cap space. Um. I’d like the best FAs to think that’s true but history seems iffy on the accuracy of that statement. Then it’s if KD leaves GS because he’s over rings, he’s likely to come to NY cause he wants to be like Lebron. Can DC make space? Cause he’s from there, hometown kid brings a championship home is much more Lebron’s story than just turning around a perennially shitty team, storied franchise or not.
Sure, maybe he wants to be the primary ball handler. Has he ever said that? Maybe he wants this or that. Based on his public comments I think he probably wants to be on a team where he doesn’t feel like an outsider, but he doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who can find that easily. He might want to be someplace where he’s not the biggest guy in the spotlight, cause he’s never seemed comfortable with that. He might decide he wants to join the Knicks. I don’t see any convincing reason other than ‘maybe KD decides he’d like to live in NY for a while.’ And Woj thinks it’s within the realm of possibility which means we could probably offer him a max contract.
Nobody ever mentions the risk of KD staying a Warrior. Klay is probably gone next year and Igoudala, a key part of the team, is not getting any younger. So what happens to KD’s legacy if he stays and GSW falters in 2019-20? You know that’s part of KD’s thinking.
What would Riley and Morey do if they were Knick GMs? Here’s what:
(1) Offer THJ/Knox for Butler or THJ/Knox/Courtney for Butler/Gibson
(2) Swap our 2019 1st round pick for a 2020 1st to avoid cap hold.
The odds are high one of KD, Kawhi, or Kyrie would then join the Knicks. KP is the 3rd best player on the team. KD/Butler/KP or Kawhi/Butler/KP is waaaay more enticing than KD/KP or Kawhi/KP. If I were KD or Kawhi, I’d stay put or join the Jazz or 76ers than place all my chips on just a unicorn. However, Butler and KP makes the Knicks a no-brainer in terms of media market, legacy (to KD) and potential.
There’s a big difference between players telling NYC reporters they love playing at MSG and how great the atmosphere is and players wanting to join the Knicks.
(1) Apparently, Butler is locker room poison. This does not seem like a thing that would make a team attractive.
(2) So drop a pick that’s likely to be good for one that you are planning on being bad? If you were desperate to get rid of that cap hold I have to think there would be a better use for the pick than a straight downgrade.
@65 Both those trades are terrible ideas. If you want to get two max guys, you wait until the summer, get a commitment from both players, and then you can start attaching assets to THJ/Courtney to free up cap space.
Players know injuries and recoveries. There are other ways to convince him he’s healthy. And everyone knows what Porzingis is capable of.
The 12 games have significantly more potential downside (reinjury or rust) than upside.
Butler would probably be off the market by then and wouldn’t be on the Knicks which means the probability of landing one of KD/Kawhi/Kyrie would be much lower and 2 of those players very low. History tells us having a star player already in-house makes a huge difference (the LBJ/Wade/Bosh being the exception) and KP’s not a legit star at this time. BTW I would tell Jimmy before the trade that he only gets a 4-year deal if he fails to recruit another star. If he doesn’t agree, don’t do the trade.
Fair but he and the younger players have fought. It would be much different if he and a vet of his ability and tenure were feuding. Plus Butler would play a major role in recruiting.
The pick swap wouldn’t occur until the last moment when one would think the front office would have some idea from KD/Kawhi/Kyrie’s agents. If we swap our 2019 pick for a 2020 pick, would we picking in 2020 based on our record or the record of team that gave us the pick? If the latter, we should end up with a comparable pick presuming we swap with a team similar in performance to ours. The benefit to the other team is that they accelerate their rebuild by picking earlier.
There’s no guarantees and plenty could go wrong. However, this will be a very unique summer the type which doesn’t happen very often. We’d be instant contenders if it works out and the negative of following that course doesn’t appear to be *that* bad. We could always trade Butler. If we strike out on all of the top guys and end up overpaying for another THJ,…
This is, as KP himself has said, an unusual situation, given the nature of the injury and his size. I can’t believe Durant or any other premiere free agent would come here without some evidence that KP was at least on the road back to being what he was.
There were lots of Melo fans on this blog prior to the implosion after the 54-win season, which was Ruru’s heyday. He had quite of bit of company.
More specifically, he would post every obscure tweet/blogpost to spin his narrative. Sound familiar?
The debate about Frank has never been about his defense. Everyone (including me) agrees that he is a potential stud on the defensive end. The debate has been about a) his ability to evolve into a PG and b) whether his horrific offense (regardless of role) will ever catch up to his defense to the point where he can be a two-way player.
Oh, BTW last year his Drtg was 112 (lousy) and his DBPM was -0.5 (also lousy.) So whatever that tweet was referring to is right out of ruru’s playbook.
Personally, the fact that he was given 15 months off to recover would convince me he’s healthy more than watching him come back early and play 12 games at less than 100%. But that’s subjective.
Zach LaVine is showing some serious body control out there, he might be taking a real step
This is the era of IG videos. Hoodie Melo had the world excited for his OKC debut. Put KP in a hoodie and let him go viral. That’ll convince everyone he’s healthy.
I agree. That difference is a stable organization, competent management, effective coaching and talented personnel. If we can establish a foundation towards these things then star players who are looking for the greatest glory the NBA has to offer (now that Lebron is in LA) will surely prioritize coming over here. A championship contending Knicks team playing in MSG would be the hottest ticket in the world’s largest market. And Durant could be at the center of it all.
No one was debating anything about Frank until you came here with your snark. I just posted some information about his impact on our team defense because I was shocked a “point guard” could make that much of a defensive difference on a very bad defensive team. The fact that you see it as a contentious point is very telling, though.
You mean Mike Breen’s. Take it up with MSG.
I agree that coming back has injury risk. That’s why not giving KP his inevitable extension has a downside that partially offsets the greater cap space. He may decide not to play even if he’s ready because he doesn’t want to risk all that money.
However, assuming KP is part of the attraction of coming to NY, no “major stud” in their right mind is going to come to NY on the assumption he’s 100% because that’s what he or the doctors say. It will take more than 12 games. The players are correct in understanding his potential, but if he doesn’t play this year, he’ll be out of basketball for over 18 months. No one can know what caliber player is going to come back and how well he’ll handle it physically. If you have championship aspirations, you have to KNOW the status of KP before you make a long term commitment to NY. Maybe it’s a different thing to attract the 2nd tier free agents, but not Durant.
So is Booker.
He’s becoming a stud scorer and even doing a little more than that. Teams make mistakes, but sometimes you just know you can toss out those stats earned when they are kids because the talent and work ethic is there and the changes and improvements that need to be made are not that tough.
Iguodala simply isn’t important to the Dubs’ success anymore. He’s an excellent team player, definitely doing stuff that doesn’t show up in the individual stats, but his terrible shooting negates a lot of his impact on the defensive end.
Klay isn’t going anywhere. He has the ability to essentially finish his career in perhaps the best American city to be a rich person in. He will have cultural capital long after his career is over and will probably be able to invest his money in smart VC activity to become a significantly wealthier man. He also smokes a ton of weed, and California is a great place for that.
So you’re pointing to two of the more overrated members of a dynasty that’s quickly rivaling the 90s Bulls for “most dominant team ever,” a team that should be on their way to a five-peat in an era in which there are significant barriers to long-term roster dominance (luxury tax, less adversarial player relationships, social media making lifestyle differences in municipalities muuuuch more apparent). Then you’re saying that Durant is going to be taking their futures into primary consideration when he makes a FA decision. I just don’t see it happening.
Outside of Jordan Bell, the Warriors have been pretty meh at identifying young talent since they put their core together. Kevon Looney had good stats but looked like a baby deer out there. Same with McCaw, only his stats were pretty bad. Quinn Cook is a decent find and Jordan Bell will eventually make an All-Defensive team, but they’ve really struck out at finding late-round steals. Having another rising young core would be persuasive, I think.
Unfortunately, for attracting free agents the “allure of the Garden” hasn’t ever been an actual thing, despite it branding itself as “the Mecca of basketball”.
To illustrate: Who is the greatest player that the New York Knicks have ever obtained via Free Agency?
Now, compare that name with all of the free agents that the Knicks have ever pursued (hint: in 1996 alone Shaquille O’Neal, Michael Jordan, and Reggie Miller were all free agents in a year that Checketts and Grundeld had 50% of the salary cap to spend. Which one of them did they land? See above.)
Again, I get that a player like Durant would want to know Porzingis is healthy.
If I were a basketball player, I would be more convinced my teammate is healthy if I knew he was given enough time to recover from an injury than if he was rushed back to play basketball.
Also, the risk of reinjury is significantly higher if his first games back are late season NBA games against players in full swing vs if they’re preaseason games after a full training camp.
I’ve had my moments of doubt about Frank and I’ll probably have more along the way, but I’ve probably been more optimistic about him than anyone here once we got to know and watch him a little .
I’ve said this in the past. Virtually everyone I have ever known that was both very bright and had a very strong work ethic found a way to get very good at their passion. Frank is both those and he was already more than half way there at 19 because of his excellent defense and decent play making last year. He basically has 4-6 years to develop an above average 3 point shot (he was already not so bad last year and in France) to become an excellent two way player.
In 4-6 years he may develop a hell of a lot more than that!!
There’s almost no chance this kid is not going to be very good as long as he remains healthy. The only issue is what position he’s going to play. He doesn’t have the quickness and instinctive aggressiveness of most PGs and he doesn’t have the confidence bordering on arrogance that “star” scorers tend to have. But he doesn’t have to be an “all world” offensive stud or PG to be a hugely productive player when he may be a 1st or 2nd team NBA defender with play making and 3 point shooting skills plus more.
Very disingenuous example. Jordan signed for 100% of the salary cap. O’Neal played the same position as Patrick Ewing. And Reggie Miller was mad that we didn’t pursue him, opting for the younger Allan Houston instead.
We didn’t have cap space again until the summer of LeBron, and we played that horribly. D’Antoni had a damaged reputation, Donnie Walsh was in a wheel chair, and Dolan was… there. And the best player on the team was a young, unproven Gallinari.
I don’t understand playing Fultz and Simmons together. I think that’s bad idea. Fultz has some good play making skills. His problem is shooting. When you have Simmons on the floor, you already have a great play maker on the court. But he needs space to be more effective scoring inside because he can’t shoot. Embid also need space.
So why in the world is a guy that’s struggling shooting on the court when he can’t even contribute to his potential as a playmaker because Simmons has the ball so often?
Unless Fultz starts shooting lights out, he should be coming off the bench as a backup PG in a more conventional lineup than what they have with a point forward like Simmons. The 76ers have two studs, but they kind of screwed up their team construction in the off season by letting Belinelli and Ilyasova get away. Now they are making matters worse with Fultz starting.
He posted a 4.8 BPM (4th on team) and .171 WS/48 (3rd on team) in the playoffs on 400+ minutes (5th on team).
Will GSW pay him 200m next summer and then pay Dray 200+m a year later? Not clear at all. Being a repeater in luxury tax is some serious money.
The other thing is Curry will be 32yo during the playoffs of the 2019-20 season? Aren’t you the most vocal person about the aging curve? Are you now saying that Father Time will take a holiday where Curry is concerned? Even Dray’s starting to have injury issues and he’ll be 30yo during the playoffs of the 2019-20 season.
So yes, I think all of this will be part of KD’s calculus – that the team may have more or less peaked or will have by the end of this year.
Folks…We need to trade THJ for Butler right now! ESPN trade machine says he’s worth 10 wins to Minnesota right now and Butler knocks 11 off our projected wins! Sure hope Perry is working the phones..
So every player that is smart and works hard becomes very good?? Really??
Probably Alan Houston, who we took over Reggie Miller in FA. Since then has there been a Knick team worth a star player’s fancy? There was that opportunity to sign Lebron when Donnie was in charge, but it was already determined that he was going to Miami to join with D-Wade well before Dolan and Walsh had that disastrous meeting.
Edit: Hubert beat me to the punch.
Tyson Chandler is the best player the Knicks obtained in free agency.
Donnie Walsh nailed this – it’s just not a thing that has ever seemed to exist outside of softball media questions. Knicks fans want players to be awed by MSG, hence players say they’re awed. Nobody really cares that much about MSG, taxes are high, lots of morons don’t like the city, there are more storied franchises, ect ect.
And Durant has never seemed comfortable in the spotlight. Would he want to be at the center of all the media bullshit that comes with the Knicks?
Portland might miss the playoffs this year. GSW, Houston, LAL, Utah, OKC, NOP, Denver, and San Antonio are all better teams, and I might even take Phoenix over Portland.
I’m definitely starting the Lillard to the Knicks campaign today.
I hope KD is watching tonight, lebron’s having a blast out there with those laker youngsters…
brandon ingram, josh hart, kyle kuzma, oh yeah, and they got lonzo ball (who thankfully has straightened his shot a bit – still looks bad)…
I’m gonna start getting behind this KD to the knicks hype…
I’m really interested to see what fiz can do over a season…seems like a pretty charismatic personality…
although horny seemed to always look good the first month or so…
He had put up a 0.2 BPM during the regular season and played poorly in the 2016-17 playoffs, his BPM held up by a very strong defensive performance by his team as a whole. I’m not about to call him a main contributor because he had an unsustainable .610 TS% over a small sample. I’m merely saying that he’s not all that important to them, overall. And he’s not getting any younger.
The Donnie Walsh example is really unfair one considering that he anted up for a FA class whose top 3 candidates in Lebron, Wade and Bosh had already conspired to play together for Miami. Plus there is the fact that Donnie really didn’t nail that pitch did he? His FA meeting with Lebron was a publicized mess of legendary proportions.
LOL @ Kuzma and Ball not starting for the Lakers.
Ball looks lost out there for LA. Let’s set up a trade!
I don’t think it’s disingenous. In 1996 Jordan and Miller both used the “Allure of the Garden” against their current teams to jack up their signing price. That’s all that the Allure of the Garden has ever been good for.
(And in the case of Jordan, the offer from NY was for $25,000,000 which was almost 100% of the cap too)
“The Bulls had one hour, maybe the rest of the day, to beat a $25 million offer from the Knicks, or Michael Jordan was going to sign with New York.”
And, it’s not like it was just 1996. Do you remember 2001, aka “The Summer of CWeb”?
Or 2000, when Brian Grant was wined and dined on Dolan’s yacht?
Or 2015, when the Allure of the Bradley Center was more enticing to top target Greg Monroe?
It seems hard to believe that that Jordan offer would have actually been approved by the league. $12 million in salary and $13 million to be the spokesperson of their hotel chain? Come on.
But yes, in general, the Knicks have whiffed a lot in free agency. However, Dolan also allowed them to be capped out for, what, 13 years between 1997 and 2009? Then they were capped out for years until 2015. So they didn’t have a whole lot of opportunities.
Lonzo is not going to last on the Lakers. He doesn’t have a natural role on the team, and it’s only a matter of time before his dad starts shooting off his mouth about how Lonzo is the best player on the team and why isn’t Lonzo running the offense and blah blah blah.
I doubt he finishes this year as a Laker.
I’d still welcome him here with arms wide open, problem is we don’t have anything to trade for him.