Knicks Morning News (2017.10.24)

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks have talked trade with Suns about Eric Bledsoe, source says
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 8:39:50 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Are the Knicks willing to reconsider their youth movement in order to get a talented point guard in the prime of his career?

  • [NYDN] Knicks reach out to Suns about potential Eric Bledsoe trade
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 4:21:31 PM)

    The Knicks reached out to the Suns about a potential Eric Bledsoe trade Monday, after the point guard hinted he wants out of Phoenix.

  • [NYDN] Eric Bledsoe’s exile from Suns presents opportunity for Knicks
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 1:40:31 PM)

    One team’s scapegoat is another team’s starting point guard.

  • [ESPN] Does New York have pieces to pull off Eric Bledsoe deal?
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 4:48:08 PM)

    Does New York have pieces to pull off Eric Bledsoe deal?

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: N.B.A. Coaches Had Long Stretch of Stability. Has the Chopping Block Returned?
    (Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:00:27 AM)

    The league had gone 532 days without a head coach being fired when the Suns ousted Earl Watson on Sunday.

  • [NYPost] Enes Kanter holding up Knicks’ future by playing too well
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 6:27:50 PM)

    There are those around the city losing their minds about young center Willy Hernangomez basically falling from the Knicks rotation, with “Why, why, why?” a constant cry. Essentially, three words have brought about the inactivity for Hernangomez: “defense” and “Enes Kanter.” Defense is not high on the list of Kanter’s attributes, either, but the 25-year-old,…

  • [NYPost] Knicks express interest in Eric Bledsoe
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 12:08:46 PM)

    The Knicks have interest in Suns disgruntled point guard Eric Bledsoe, but they are hardly alone. “It’s fair to say the Knicks are monitoring the situation,’’ one NBA source told The Post. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek coached Bledsoe in Phoenix. The Post reported over the summer the Knicks had inquired about Bledsoe before signing veterans…

  • [NYPost] The Knicks can’t get Frank Ntilikina off the bench
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 9:35:01 AM)

    The biggest problem for the Knicks regarding rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina simply has been getting him on the floor. It won’t happen Tuesday night in Boston, either. Ntilikina, who missed summer league with a sore knee, all but one preseason game with a bruised knee then sat the second game of the regular season…

  • [NYPost] Frank Ntilikina’s NYC adjustment, from his most trusted source
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 9:09:36 AM)

    Jacqueline Mukarugema stood by the bar at the Garden’s Delta Club on Saturday night, but she wasn’t purchasing drinks. The new jerseys of her son, Frank Ntilikina, had just arrived in time for the Knicks home opener, and she was preparing to buy a bunch off the rack to bring back to France. Mukarugema had…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks not currently interested in trading Ntilikina or Hernangomez
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 6:24:47 PM)

    Despite the fact that the Knicks have reached out to the Suns about point guard Eric Bledsoe, the team is not actively shopping rookie guard Frank Ntilikina or second-year center Willy Hernangomez.

  • [SNY Knicks] Enes Kanter building chemistry with Porzingis, Knicks in starting role
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 3:44:59 PM)

    Knicks C Enes Kanter has been comfortable in his first games with New York.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks interested in trading for Suns PG Eric Bledsoe
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 2:08:35 PM)

    The Knicks have reached out to the Phoenix suns about PG Eric Bledsoe, per ESPN’s Ian Begley.

  • [SNY Knicks] Frank Ntilikina out of practice Monday, unlikely to play Tuesday
    (Monday, October 23, 2017 12:35:16 PM)

    Frank Ntilikina (sprained ankle) did not practice Monday, and is unlikely to play against the Celtics Tuesday.

  • 76 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.10.24)”

    How long do you all think it will be until Doug McDermott replaces Courtney Lee in the starting line up? If McBuckets gets more McStops playing team defense I think he’ll replace the smaller Courtney Lee. Both guys seem to struggle on offense without a capable ball handler, but McDermott seems to McMove without the ball better.

    And this offense is going to drag all year without a real point guard. The Knicks wasted their two way contracts this year if you ask me. If we could low-ball our way into Eric Bledsoe that would be nice, but I’m certain that doesn’t happen because Denver will trick Phoenix into believing Mudiay has some redeemable qualities. Still, until it happens, Courtney Lee and Ognjen Jaramaz for Eric Bledsoe.

    And this offense is going to drag all year without a real point guard. The Knicks wasted their two way contracts this year if you ask me. If we could low-ball our way into Eric Bledsoe that would be nice, but I’m certain that doesn’t happen because Denver will trick Phoenix into believing Mudiay has some redeemable qualities. Still, until it happens, Courtney Lee and Ognjen Jaramaz for Eric Bledsoe

    I was just thinkin about that. We have enough PG’s to make Ntilikina and Baker backup 2’s, and considering that the Knicks SHOULD have leverage- why not offer up KOQ/Kuz/Jaramaz/Lee for Bledsoe and Bender plus a pick or 2? Seems like a good offer to me.

    Instead of comparing Frank to James Harden, we should be comparing him to Dejounte Murray.

    Dejounte Murray has been excellent in the early going and may actually take Tony Parker’s starting job because of his excellent defense. They’re the same build at 6’5” with a 7’ wingspan, but Frank is a better shooter and is more of a playmaker. If we could get the 3 point shooting playmaker version of Dejounte Murray, who is a gamewrecker on defense, that’s a slam dunk for the #8 pick. The Spurs seem to get tougher and tougher every year. What is a team like Houston supposed to do against a defense with Kawhi Leonard and Dejounte Murray?

    You guys are literally out of your minds. Bledsoe is a starting PG in this league, probably top 15. KOQ is a one year rental, and PHX has 50 bigs already including the corpse of Tyson Chandler, Alex Len, Marquese Chriss, and Dragan Bender. I can see why they might want Courtney Lee in terms of a vet to stabilize that locker room, but he DOES have 3 years left on his deal for a team that doesn’t need him on the court. The Knicks would have to sweeten the deal, not the other way around. Dragan Bender was the #4 pick in the draft last year, and you think they’ll give Bledsoe AND Bender AND a pick to get Jaramaz and the rest of the pupu platter?

    Jaramaz has ZERO value. He was #50something pick in the draft and wasn’t even good enough to make into the Knicks training camp – a team that has one of the 2-3 worst PG situations in the league.

    Bledsoe is a good player on a reasonable contract that goes for 2 years (ie. not a 1 year rental). This is a player that wouldn’t be out of place starting on a team that is planning to go deep into the playoffs – ie. he’d be an upgrade for Cleveland and Milwaukee for sure. He doesn’t have a no-trade clause meaning that every team in the league can theoretically trade for him, so this not like the Melo trade where his value was artificially capped by lack of suitors. We’re not getting him without giving up a real asset, which basically means we should stay away. The best asset I would consider moving for him would probably be that Chicago pick. I’m +/- on Willy only because long-term I’m not sure how useful he can be on the team, but right now he’s a great value and I’d be inclined to keep him and see how his development goes.

    I don’t see how Bledsoe goes anywhere except Denver. They have the most attractive parts and they’re willing to move them (and likely a 1st rounder too). We just don’t have an offer once you take Frank and Willy off the table.

    I was just thinkin about that. We have enough PG’s to make Ntilikina and Baker backup 2’s, and considering that the Knicks SHOULD have leverage- why not offer up KOQ/Kuz/Jaramaz/Lee for Bledsoe and Bender plus a pick or 2? Seems like a good offer to me.

    How in the world do the Knicks have leverage here? Plenty of teams would gladly take Bledsoe and actually offer something of value, not vet back-ups on an awful team.

    why not offer up KOQ/Kuz/Jaramaz/Lee for Bledsoe and Bender plus a pick or 2?

    Don’t forget to include Lance Thomas!

    Yeah there’s no way we actually get Eric Bledsoe. I’m just saying Phoenix really destroyed their trade value on Bledsoe and now they’re probably stuck with a bunch of bad offers. My bad offer would be Courtney Lee, Ognjen Jaramaz, and a conditional 2nd round pick or something. I feel like this Knicks FO just called, asked about the price, heard it, made their counter offer, and left the conversation.

    “We want Ntilikina and Willy Hernangomez for Bledsoe.”

    “We’re only willing to give you Courtney Lee and Ognjen Jaramaz. He’s the next Goran Dragic.”

    “No thanks.”

    “Cool. Good luck with that Mudiay kid. He should get you guys first in line to draft Bagley.”

    @7
    This reminds me of the Melo trade. Bledsoe doesn’t wanna be there, so theoretically- anyone who enters into trade negotiations shoud have some leverage. Besides, it’s time for us to do the fleecing. I’d be fine without a draft pick in that scenario, but no way I would cave an even consider adding Willy or Ntilikina for Bledsoe and his injury history. I don’t care that he’s in his prime and talented- we are rebuilding and that makes Ntilikina or Willy more valuable to us than Bledsoe.

    The Knicks believe in Ntilikina, but that pick was made by Phil Jackson, who decided not to select Dennis Smith Jr.

    Something tells me Steve Mills might be open to removing some of Jackson’s DNA from the roster.

    But Ntilikina alone won’t get a deal done. The Suns would likely ask for Willy Hernangomez, who has been buried on the bench in the Knicks first two games.

    If you deal Ntilikina and Hernangomez along with a veteran (Courtney Lee) to match Bledsoe’s salary it doesn’t necessarily alter your rebuilding plan

    Can already see Isola is going to be peddling the Perry/Mills are failures narrative if and when Bledsoe gets traded elsewhere. Trading our most recent lottery pick and our 2nd year center coming off of a very promising rookie season doesn’t necessarily alter the rebuild in his opinion.

    Writing for the Knicks beat must be such a cushy job.

    How in the world do the Knicks have leverage here?

    I would hate to say it, but sometimes teams will do anything to get rid of a player. Not that it’s a fair example, but Phil Jackson would have handed Melo to any team. I still think we only got “eh” back for him. The narrative is that most teams are locked at PG and there’s few options. Only a handful of teams need a PG. The Knicks are one of them.

    If you deal Ntilikina and Hernangomez along with a veteran (Courtney Lee) to match Bledsoe’s salary it doesn’t necessarily alter your rebuilding plan

    wut

    Melo had a NTC, Bledsoe does not. If anything it’s closer to the Kyrie situation.

    The Suns have no need to trade him, they’re gonna suck anyway, and Denver and probably Milwaukee will make offers. They are going to be trying to fleece us, not the other way around.

    Isola is a hack.

    “The Suns have no need to trade him, they’re gonna suck anyway, and Denver and probably Milwaukee will make offers. They are going to be trying to fleece us, not the other way around.”
    True, but sending him home and effectively announcing to the league, “We need to trade this guy NOW” doesn’t exactly enhance a guy’s value.

    If you deal Ntilikina and Hernangomez along with a veteran (Courtney Lee) to match Bledsoe’s salary it doesn’t necessarily alter your rebuilding plan

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you today’s journalism.

    At first I though that was a quote from one of Team Delusional on here, but to find out that somebody who gets paid to write about basketball wrote that boggles the mind.

    Denver makes sense on paper, assuming Bledsoe isn’t a bad guy and is just upset about being on a tanker. I’d prefer to deal Mudiay over Murray though.
    ———

    Regarding adding a few extra wins at the cost of a few draft spots for the purpose of giving KP more of a winning culture, I say phooey. Those few draft spots are the difference between having KP or Towns, or, in the case of last season, Frank or Tatum / Fox.

    Play the kids and it’s a win-win-win. Either they play great and make a run at the playoffs and we have a fun season, they suck and we get a top 3 pick (and we learn a lot about KP’s character in the process), or we get somewhere in between and at least have an idea of what we have going forward.

    The only trade that makes some sense is Kanter for Bledsoe:

    – Kanter is a young and good player. However he is a better fit on the Suns than on the Knicks because we already have too many bigs, want to move KP to C and Willy is a very similar player.
    – Bledsoe is already 27, so he is not exactly ideal for us, but we desperately need a PG, so the team can grow and form an identity. His contract is short and would not alter our future plans in case we dont want him later.

    But the Nuggets and Bucks can trump this offer with picks + intriguing (That is, bad but with a chance to improve) young players.

    Regarding adding a few extra wins at the cost of a few draft spots for the purpose of giving KP more of a winning culture, I say phooey. Those few draft spots are the difference between having KP or Towns, or, in the case of last season, Frank or Tatum / Fox.

    Beware, those wins are also the difference between KP and Okafor. Unless you have a great faith in the drafting abilities of our front office, you should talk in terms of average expected value of each pick.

    Also, a few wins increase the value of our players, which could be important if we want to trade KOQ or Lee.

    @17 Despite what I said above, I wouldn’t say no to that. That trade kills like 4 birds with one stone. It saves cap money. It frees Willy. It gives them a real pg who can help develop the young players. And it makes them watchable while still keeping them in the lottery.

    @15

    I agree johnno, but I mean, the dude came out on Twitter saying he wanted out. It was a screwed situation right from the start, as reports are saying he wanted to get traded even before the season started.

    The smart move for the Suns would be to wait, though. Milwaukee specially is 3-1, Giannis is wrecking solo every night and they might view themselves as a team which could take a step towards real contention with Bledsoe. They could get something like Monroe + Maker or Brogdon + a pick, which is pretty good value if you ask me, better than Kanter or Lee for sure.

    Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Kanter or Lee for Bledsoe, just that I think the Suns will get better offers and will surely ask for more assets to sweeten the deal.

    That Isola quote is something else. I don’t have anything to add to that really, just…wow. The guy is not a deep thinker.

    Isola is a hack.

    I consider being blocked by him on Twitter a badge of honor.

    I’d be willing to include Chicago’s 2nd round pick in any deal as long as the deal does not include Nitti or Willy. That pick has good value and would be attractive to a rebuilding team like the Suns (as well as us). But I’d rather have Bledsoe.

    Z-Bo, George Hill, and Vince Carter — Scott Perry’s three big veteran signings in the offseason — combined for 2 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists on 0-11 shooting in 47 minutes last night. Against the putrid Suns defense, no less.

    Still not sure why anyone thinks those were good signings.

    Beware, those wins are also the difference between KP and Okafor. Unless you have a great faith in the drafting abilities of our front office, you should talk in terms of average expected value of each pick.

    Exactly 100% correct.

    Draft picks have value, but the lottery and the quality of the player you actually wind up with is to some extent a crap shoot. You should be thinking in terms of ranges unless there’s an obvious star at #1.

    Can’t believe Isola said that. I don’t hate him, because any enemy of Dolan can’t be all bad. But suggesting a trade of Willy and Frank for Bledsoe demonstrates a total lack of understanding about team-building strategy.

    Well, apparently “multiple” teams are interested in Kyle. Hopefully one of them has a living point guard to offer! Then Hernangomez will have to see some minutes, at least until Noah comes back.

    Isola has a shorter term perspective on trades and team building than pretty much everyone here. He tends to come down on the side of whatever makes the team better now unless it’s extreme.

    I’m all in favor of making trades to get better now even if means getting a mildly worse draft pick next year as long as we are aren’t giving up significant long term value to do it. I consider a few draft positions to be less than significant for a good player that’s young and on a good contract. I’m not just not touching Nitti or Willy. The Chicago pick can go. If we can’t make a deal like that, I’m fine with standing pat and being patient. However, IMO we can’t just rely on the draft and getting all players in their early 20s so they fit perfectly with KP. That won’t work. We HAVE TO make sensible trades too. We just have to win them and then use the fruits of those wins to keep building and improving.

    I’m not advocating that we make a Bledsoe trade but one thing to consider as far as the whole winning some extra games vs. trying to secure as high of a lottery pick as possible…is KP’s feelings about losing more games. Rebuilding means not just drafting good players but keeping them. And KP, it seems, is a good player, possibly a great one. And a big man we have yet to see with a competent PG feeding him the ball.

    Bledsoe probably isn’t good enough to make us a playoff team, but he’s a clear upgrade at PG and could hold down the fort while Frank develops and/or we draft another PG. Those few extra wins might cost us a better draft slot but it might also ensure KP signs his extension with us.

    Obviously I don’t deal Willie H and Frank for Bledsoe but if another offer was available to us, we might want to consider it. Making KP happy and him thinking this team has a future is important. Smart fans may not want to win now but I guarantee you KP does, or at least he doesn’t want to lose so much that we get a top 5 pick. You have to consider the human element to tanking.

    KP will sign an extension with the Knicks as long as they behave like a normal NBA franchise and are also able to make moves that improve the team in the process. Trading for Bledsoe for the type of price stratomatic is describing would help towards that and similarly anything more would not.

    George Hill was a reasonable signing. I probably wouldn’t have signed him if I were Sacramento, but he was good last year (and his entire career). Sometimes guys fall off at 31, but the 3rd year deal is only guaranteed for 1 million bucks, and signing a good player to a 2 year deal is reasonable, even if it doesn’t work out.

    Oh I agree. I’m just saying KP has been here for 2 years and both years ended up being losing seasons. Maybe he can suffer through another one if it isn’t attached with a bunch of drama like the coach being fired mid season or Melo trade rumors or Rose walking out or the owner banning a Knicks legend from the building. But usually when there is losing each season, some drama follows.

    He’s gotta be getting tired of the losing AND he’s never had a decently good PG on the team with him to make his life easier. Bledsoe is a good PG (when healthy). And his contract is only for 2 years, so it doesn’t really mess up our long term time line.

    KP will sign one of the most obscene contracts in the NBA very soon.

    Just don’t do anything stupid and we’ll be fine.

    Personally, I think KP largely has what he wants now and I’m not sure getting a vet PG matters too much. He’s the clear cut #1 option and franchise star for the Knicks and the team is showing signs of actual commitment to a plan to surround him with youth to complement him. Obviously, not everything is perfect and we could and should play the young guys more minutes and all that, but I don’t think the losing will get to him as long they play with the general effort we’ve seen in the first 2 games and he’s getting the experience of leading a team.

    If Timmy can find his stroke and KP levels out but stays at a higher offensive level this year I think we’ll end up winning a similar amount of games as we have the last couple of years, but with a much more positive vibe around the team and direction moving forward. That’s probably what he wants to see versus Phil’s balancing act between rebuilding and winning now, which he failed to execute and didn’t accomplish either.

    KP will sign an extension with the Knicks as long as they behave like a normal NBA franchise

    Agreed. If we just demonstrate some stability and then offer him a max extension (which we will), he’ll sign it. He’s not going to turn down a year of financial security just to go into the restricted free agent market, where we would match whatever contract he signs anyway.

    Getting Bledsoe and the 4 extra wins he’ll bring is unlikely to make any difference in his calculus. A 31-win team won’t feel any different than a 27-win team. But it will knock us down a couple spots in the lottery.

    On the KOQ trade front, would Milwaukee make this deal?

    Bucks get: KOQ, Noah, Kuz
    Knicks get: Greg Monroe, John Henson, Rashad Vaughn

    Milwaukee is almost at the luxury tax but has the second-lowest revenue in the league. This deal would save them $6.5m this year without significantly affecting the quality of the team.

    The Knicks would save about $4m next year and $6m the following year (if they chose to renounce Vaughn).

    Strat, I get that as a gambler you need to make decisions based on probability and general rules, but I don’t think those apply in this situation. Weighted values for draft slots are meaningless in specific drafts. Some are loaded, some got nothing. In this upcoming draft, there are 3 difference-makers who are loved by stats and the eye test. So being bottom 3 makes a huge difference. It’s worth the sacrifice.

    Could we pick an Okafor, who every model said would suck? Sure. But we haven’t in the last few years – the opposite – and this coming draft is pretty clear.

    Also, who is “Nitti?” A Joe Pesci character?

    KP would be nuts to leave New York. Where would he go?

    Call me crazy but the chance to get the supermax, get all the touches he wants, and be the best player in NYC has to be pretty appetizing to him. I really doubt he cares about how many games he wins this year.

    @ 40 – that might be true but A) there is no guarantee we draft Doncic unless we get the top pick and have our choice and B) KP as a player may not be able to think that far ahead nor should he be expected to.

    Z-Bo, George Hill, and Vince Carter — Scott Perry’s three big veteran signings in the offseason — combined for 2 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists on 0-11 shooting in 47 minutes last night. Against the putrid Suns defense, no less.

    Still not sure why anyone thinks those were good signings.

    10x All-Star selections
    3x All-NBA selections
    2004 MIP
    1999 ROY
    1999 All-Rookie

    That’s why.

    Getting Bledsoe and the 4 extra wins he’ll bring is unlikely to make any difference in his calculus. A 31-win team won’t feel any different than a 27-win team. But it will knock us down a couple spots in the lottery.

    Well said. I get the idea of wanting to keep KP happy, but can’t really imagine Bledsoe plays some significant role in that. This team would still be bad with Bledsoe. If anything I think it might be more dispiriting if the team zigged back again towards “winning now” after we just zagged towards rebuilding, doubly so if (when) that “winning now” plan didn’t actually lead to that much winning.

    The more convincing case to me would be the idea that KP needs better guard play to develop parts of his game that otherwise won’t grow. Pick & roll, pick & pop, these things require competent guard play to execute well and both should theoretically be important parts of KP’s mature game. Still I feel like the guard play we have now (bad as it is) isn’t harming his development significantly. They’re not good penetrators but they’re willing passers and they’re getting him the ball so far. If anything last year’s PG situation was much worse developmentally.

    Stay the course. Tank for the first time, intentionally.

    Look to move vets for picks/young players with upside, if possible. Sure, if you can get a Bledsoe for virtually nothing, you’d do it, but only to flip him elsewehere for some sort of pick/young player package. But if such a package is available, then the Suns will make that deal, not one for Kanter or Lee plus a 2nd rounder type deal.

    The season is still very early to be jumping at someone like Bledsoe in the hopes of appeasing KP.

    To be clear…I doubt KP is clamoring for Bledsoe. I’m just saying this. He would be the best PG KP has had here BY FAR and he’s got two years left on his deal, which would give us plenty of time to let Frank develop bc Frank is definitely a project as he’s only 18.

    I would not trade Willie or Frank for him…or Dotson or our first round pick for that matter. So the point is probably moot. But if you could trade him for Kanter and a second rounder, for example…I would be all over that. It would free up minutes for Willie and maybe Willie at this time is worse than Kanter so you lose some wins because of that and maybe that offsets the wins you get from Bledsoe? I don’t know. I don’t think Bledsoe suddenly makes us great but if we did still get a high draft pick AND had Bledsoe as our starting PG next year…um, that might be pretty sweet. And it would allow Horns to run the offense the way he really wants to, which might give KP an even better picture of the future and where this franchise is heading.

    I assume they only want picks/recent-picks for Bledsoe, so NO, I would not be in favor of that.

    He’s significantly older, injury-prone, and hurts our tank.

    We are in the business of making a better team in a few years. He is so contrary to that goal its absurd.

    Having Bledsoe would help us win a few more games this year, which doesn’t matter in the big picture. It would also remove any pressure on the coaching staff to play Frank if he’s not ready, and playing with a good PG might help develop some of our younger bigs.

    But if we trade Frank and Willy for Bledsoe than we just removed the major benefits to getting Bledsoe. So yeah, I’d definitely trade some guys we don’t need and Phoenix almost certainly doesn’t want, but I’m a big no on trading anyone under 25 for Bledsoe

    Strat, I get that as a gambler you need to make decisions based on probability and general rules, but I don’t think those apply in this situation. Weighted values for draft slots are meaningless in specific drafts. Some are loaded, some got nothing. In this upcoming draft, there are 3 difference-makers who are loved by stats and the eye test. So being bottom 3 makes a huge difference. It’s worth the sacrifice.

    Could we pick an Okafor, who every model said would suck? Sure. But we haven’t in the last few years – the opposite – and this coming draft is pretty clear.

    Also, who is “Nitti?” A Joe Pesci character?

    I’m not sure there is an easy answer to this problem. So I could easily be wrong. I just see the path of trying to build almost exclusively through the draft and with players on KP’s timeline as much riskier than perceptions and taking a LONG time.

    I started using “Nitty” instead of Frank Ntilikina because I can’t remember how to spell his last name and Frank Nitty was close enough. 🙂

    Isn’t Bledsoe essentially a somewhat (but not all that much) better version of Derrick Rose? An athletic but injury-prone shoot-first PG with a low b-ball IQ, me-first attitude, and some major efficiency deficits?

    For the Knicks to remain this bad you would have to expect Tim Hardaway Jr to shoot at his current efficiency. As much as you guys hate TH2, that’s just not going to be the case. Timmy is at a .365 eFG% and a .403 TS%. You also have to take into account that Phoenix and Dallas are elite teams in the tank because they play in the Western Conference. Chicago is also worse than we are. Sacramento, Los Angeles, and Atlanta all stand in the way of our tank.

    The Knicks are not the terrible team you guys believe them to be, and it is very possible KP and Kanter are too good to land us in a top 4 spot in the tank. Everyone on the Wolves sucked last year except Rubio and Towns and they picked 7th. KP, Kanter, and O’Quinn is just too much fire power for us to get an elite prospect in this draft. There will be no Doncic. As badly as I want to sign Covington and draft Michael Porter Jr, I understand that we aren’t that bad.

    For those of you who expect Doncic, start looking at guys like Kevin Knox, Miles Bridges, and Trevon Duval.

    We could save ourselves a lot of time with this generic thought regarding all trades:
    ‘no way they do it for the shit we want to get rid of, and the guys they want…..no way we give them up”

    Then, we’re done. except for KOQ for a 2nd round pick, and maybe Lee or Kanter at the deadline, if a contender has a guy who gets hurt.

    Bucks get: KOQ, Noah, Kuz
    Knicks get: Greg Monroe, John Henson, Rashad Vaughn

    The Bucks have a similar glut of a big man rotation. Maker, Monroe, and Henson all play exactly 15 1/2 minutes per game. I don’t see why they’d shuffle it for O’Quinn, who would simply slide in at 15 1/2 minutes per game and do the same commulative stuff as the guys they’ve already got.

    Something involving Monroe/Henson + Brogdon for Bledsoe (+ Chandler?) seems to make sense. Brogdon is playing well, but has a low ceiling and carries enough cred as ROY to make a trade-high kind of deal, maybe getting one of the Suns kids thrown in.

    Courtney Lee and Kyle O’Quinn to the Wizards, the Celtics, or the Charlotte Hornets at the deadline makes a world of sense for both parties. Just give us a first round pick and an expiring contract. If we want to commit to a tank, those two have to go sooner than later.

    And maybe Melo can convince OKC that Lance Thomas is a bro and a good locker room presence at the deadline too.

    Isn’t Bledsoe essentially a somewhat (but not all that much) better version of Derrick Rose? An athletic but injury-prone shoot-first PG with a low b-ball IQ, me-first attitude, and some major efficiency deficits?

    Not at all. Bledsoe’s TS has been above 56 for the last 600o or so minutes he’s played in the NBA. And he gets more assists than Rose. His problem on offense has been that he’s turnover prone. (which may be because he’s a me-first guy, I don’t know) He doesn’t seem to be the elite defender he was when he first came into the league, but he’s solid and still nowhere near as bad as Rose.

    The Bucks have a similar glut of a big man rotation. Maker, Monroe, and Henson all play exactly 15 1/2 minutes per game. I don’t see why they’d shuffle it for O’Quinn, who would simply slide in at 15 1/2 minutes per game and do the same commulative stuff as the guys they’ve already got.

    Right, this trade wouldn’t be done for the purpose of getting KOQ. It would be to shed salary. Milwaukee has the 6th highest payroll in the league but the 2nd lowest revenue. Shedding $6.5m is a big deal for small market teams. They already stretched Spencer Hawes to get under the luxury tax, even though he was an expiring deal.

    Yeah, Bledsoe is actually a valuable NBA player. He’s just in that limbo where he’s not good enough to be the star in a weaker team and too expensive in terms of what he’s worth in the trade block for real contenders to go after. He would be a good fit for the Knicks, most definitely, but not for what Phoenix is asking and not at the cost of lottery potential.

    If this team is like 18-23 in the midway point of the season then by all means trade for Bledsoe, in my opinion, because then it means the youngsters are having real impact and the Knicks are improving and adding a more established guard with decent skills would help the team.

    “Stay the course. Tank for the first time, intentionally”

    This 1,000 times over. If they can pick up Bledsoe or someone like him for next to nothing then do it, otherwise keep on the tank course. But they are the Knicks so they are never getting anyone good for next to nothing. They have a long history of overpaying, so just don’t do it. The losing may exact a toll on the team morale, but it will be worth to get a top three pick in this draft if they get lucky on the ping pong balls.

    bledsoe should absolutely be looked at after this season though…. we are not exactly ready to start competing yet but if we get a top 5 pick then we might be able to start shooting for competence….

    @62

    Damn, I feel bad for the kid. Hope it doesn’t end up being anything serious. A lot of pressure being #1, wanting to perform right away.

    Philadelphia’s medical incompetence should be illegal and they need to be sued. I hate hearing stories like this one.

    It was completely obvious in the preseason that Fultz should not have been on the floor. The 76ers were downright Metsian in the way they handled this Fultz injury.

    @65
    Nah, to be truly Metsian, the Sixers would have to have been playing him 30+ minutes per night, too! Maybe 40.
    🙂

    The Knicks are not the terrible team you guys believe them to be, and it is very possible KP and Kanter are too good to land us in a top 4 spot in the tank. Everyone on the Wolves sucked last year except Rubio and Towns and they picked 7th. KP, Kanter, and O’Quinn is just too much fire power for us to get an elite prospect in this draft. There will be no Doncic. As badly as I want to sign Covington and draft Michael Porter Jr, I understand that we aren’t that bad.

    I don’t think you realize that Kanter is absolutely integral to the #stealthtank.

    Great box score numbers, horrible +/- numbers his entire career except one outlier year in Utah. He’s the anti-Shane Battier.

    Meanwhile apparently KP is going to play a lot of center tonight. will be interesting.

    Wow. Between Fultz’s shoulder, Smith’s ankle, Jackson mailing it in, Isaac disappearing, and Ball playing ‘meh’ the top picks haven’t fared so well outside of Fox.

    If the Knicks don’t trade for Bledsoe, he’s all but certain to have a Kyle Lowry career arc. (If they do trade for him, he’ll have a Kiki Vandeweghe post-Knick fade for sure.)

    Wow. Between Fultz’s shoulder, Smith’s ankle, Jackson mailing it in, Isaac disappearing, and Ball playing ‘meh’ the top picks haven’t fared so well outside of Fox.

    I mean, it’s three games in, and we’re talking about a bunch of 19 year olds that historically do nothing their rookie year, but even still, JaysonTatum is putting up 12 and 9 as a starter which is pretty impressive.

    If the Knicks don’t trade for Bledsoe, he’s all but certain to have a Kyle Lowry career arc. (If they do trade for him, he’ll have a Kiki Vandeweghe post-Knick fade for sure.)

    #DolansRazor

    I don’t want to trade for Bledsoe, but this does make sense to me:

    “If this team is like 18-23 in the midway point of the season then by all means trade for Bledsoe, in my opinion, because then it means the youngsters are having real impact and the Knicks are improving and adding a more established guard with decent skills would help the team.”

    I mean, if we’re on track for 35 plus wins, we’re far enough out of the top of the lottery that we may as well make that trade – assuming no Willy or Frank.

    One thing I can’t stand is when someone passes judgment based on a few minutes of play.

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