Knicks Morning News (2017.06.08)

  • [NYTimes] Warriors 118, Cavaliers 113 | Golden State leads series, 3-0: Late Surge Puts Warriors One Step From Postseason Perfection
    (Thursday, June 08, 2017 6:19:52 AM)

    Kevin Durant’s go-ahead 3-pointer gave Golden State the victory over the Cavaliers. If the Warriors win Friday, they will finish the playoffs with a 16-0 record.

  • [NYTimes] The Warriors Won’t Slow Down Soon. But What Bumps Could Arise?
    (Wednesday, June 07, 2017 8:40:48 PM)

    Golden State has given the N.B.A. finals a lopsided quality, and its future is bright. Here’s a look at what the team must do to maintain its dominance.

  • [NYTimes] Warriors 132, Cavaliers 113 | Warriors lead the series, 2-0: Warriors Handily Defeat the Cavaliers in Game 2
    (Wednesday, June 07, 2017 11:13:46 PM)

    Golden State took a two-games-to-none lead in the N.B.A. finals as Coach Steve Kerr returned to the team and Stephen Curry had the first playoff triple-double of his career.

  • [NYTimes] Sports of The Times: From the Cradle of Innovation Comes a Self-Driving Team
    (Thursday, June 08, 2017 3:07:16 AM)

    The players of the Golden State Warriors, a squad run more like a start-up than a sports team, set the destination and choose the best route.

  • [NYTimes] Jack McCloskey, Architect of Detroit Pistons’ ‘Bad Boys’ Teams, Dies at 91
    (Wednesday, June 07, 2017 10:22:15 PM)

    By drafting and trading for rugged players like Dennis Rodman and Bill Laimbeer, Mr. McCloskey built a pugnacious squad that won two N.B.A. titles.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks have their eyes on Mets executive’s son
    (Wednesday, June 07, 2017 12:14:29 PM)

    The Knicks have Louisville guard, Donovan Mitchell Jr., the son of Mets director of player relations Donovan Mitchell, on their radar for the 2017 NFL Draft, per Marc Berman of NY Post.

  • 57 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.08)”

    Funny how even the vaunted Warriors’ ball-movement offense turns into iso when the games come down to the last few minutes.

    Brutal last minute or two by the Cavs — did Lebron even touch the ball on the last couple possessions?

    The ability to create a good shot (either for yourself or others) is still the rarest thing in the game. Makes you really think hard about guys like Dennis Smith and Malik Monk in terms of where we are picking, as Smith seemingly can get his own shot just with his athleticism and ball handling, and Monk is so elite getting open for jumpers and shooting with very little space.

    That said – I am still thinking that Ntilikina is our guy. In today’s NBA, the ability to have multi-positional defenders is so obviously important. If he’s really 6’5″ with a 7’1″ wingspan, he probably can guard 1-3 and would not even be seriously disadvantaged against some of the smaller 4’s when he gets stronger – looking at measurement histories in DX, he might have a standing reach of 8’9″ or more, which is basically PF length. And if his recent shooting can be believed, he is really great at pull-up jumpers, which is such an important shot nowadays.

    I think Monk and DSJ will be gone by the time we pick anyway. They are going to kill those 1-on-none workouts, and teams like Orlando and Philly will not be able to resist them.

    I’m guessing Orlando takes Isaac now with Hammond on board from the Bucks, given his track record of drafting athletes with great size and wingspan, capable of playing multiple positions. Honestly could see Isaac going as high as Phoenix as well.

    I’d be fine with Ntilikina though he’s not my favorite prospect. That opinion’s based on very limited access to his film or knowledge about him though, so it doesn’t mean much. His size and wingspan are great fits defensively for how the league is shaping up. You could imagine in a few a years, if his frame fills out, that he’d have been able to switch onto everybody in GSW’s Death Lineup and had a puncher’s chance without it being a huge mismatch.

    lol looks like Dennis Smith didn’t actually work out for the Knicks.
    Strange that he would show up for the dinner and interview but not the actual workout. Maybe he’s sick? Figure if he’s trying to avoid the triangle, he would’ve just avoided the Knicks altogether.

    Re: Orlando – I had sort of put them on a pure wing like Tatum or Josh Jackson if he’s still there. They really have zero shot creation on their roster, and they already have a hybrid 3/4 guy in Aaron Gordon that needs a lot of minutes to develop. Who knows with a new GM though?

    For us – we’ll probably be choosing between Monk, DSJ, Isaac, and Ntilikina.
    I think I’d order them like this depending on other moves:

    If we are able to get a mid 1st round pick from Portland, I’d go Ntilikina > Isaac > DSJ > Monk, predicting that we would draft a wing (someone like Justin Jackson) with that extra pick.

    If we are thinking we can get Rubio in trade, I’d go Isaac > Ntilikina > Monk > DSJ

    If none of those moves are available to us, then I think I’d go Isaac>Ntilikina>DSJ>Monk

    Re: Orlando – I had sort of put them on a pure wing like Tatum or Josh Jackson if he’s still there. They really have zero shot creation on their roster, and they already have a hybrid 3/4 guy in Aaron Gordon that needs a lot of minutes to develop. Who knows with a new GM though?

    That’s true, but you could also see him and Gordon playing together at the forward spots long-term. This is the same guy that built his squad around twin combos initially in Giannis and Jabari. Another thing to consider is every draft has multiple shot creators, but Swiss army knife types that have the unique potential to one day guard every position on the floor, give you plus rebounding and credible perimeter shooting in time are exceedingly rare. They have a lot of needs though so maybe I’m just full of shit.

    Re: Draft scenarios for us and I’m assuming Isaac is off the board

    If Rubio I like Monk > Ntilikina > DSJ

    If mid-first from PDX I go DSJ > Monk > Ntilikina

    If there are no moves I go DSJ > Monk > Ntilikina

    I also see Mitchell as an option for us at 8 or in a small trade down to either DAL or SAC as they are both rumored to be hot for Ntilikina.

    Others have said this: if Gaines is okay with Frank, then they’re okay with it too. To which I have to agree.

    My preference is Frank, as his length, athleticism, defensive aptitude, work ethic, and improving jump shot at 18 years old have me wondering how he’d develop by the end of his rookie contract, when he’s only 22.

    But if Clarence Gaines goes with the other guys I’m fine with that too. Because the available choices at 8 are all good options/guesses.

    @6 – thanks for the link and the reminder that Labeyrie exists. his summer league stats were pretty impressive last year, and his stats in the French League are, frankly, unreal.

    From RealGM this past season (per-36):

    16.8 points, 4.9 ORB, 8.8 DRB, 13.8 TRB, 1.2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 1.5 TOV

    Advanced stats -> TS 64.7, USG 19.2, ORtg 131.2, DRtg 98, ORB% 17.2, DRB% 30.46, TRB 23.84

    those advanced stats are just nuts.

    Re his rebounding – Hollinger did an analysis a few years ago suggesting that on average, rebounding increases by 18% when going from Euroleague –> NBA. Based on that he’d basically be by far the best rebounder in the NBA if he came over with an ORB of 20.3 (Joakim Noah led the league with 17.1) and a DRB% of 35.9 (Drummond was #1 at 36.2, Whiteside was #2 at 35.3), and a total rebound rate of 28.1 (Drummond led the league with 25.2).

    KD was iconic last night down the stretch. GSW is about to obliterate the NBA until 2020.

    Hopefully Louis Labeyrie can eventually be a Knick and play good basketball for us. I’d love it if we had another awesome piece.

    is Labeyrie under contract still? He would be a great defensive piece to have next year. And I assume he speaks Euro.

    Maybe Smith just wanted to be polite and not blow off a scheduled meeting, but he already has a guarantee from a team above #8. So it made no sense to workout.

    And I assume he speaks Euro.

    I would love for us to build a team of mostly former Euroball players. Maybe it’s just because I mostly only get to see the very best of them, but they seem to be trained to play in a very unselfish way and are fundamentally very sound.

    if smith is going to orlando… then that means tatum has the possibility of dropping… and we should be prepared to take him…

    @MichaelVPina

    LeBron James was +7 in 46 minutes and his team lost by five. In a game of incredible stats, nothing touches that.

    I was wondering about Labeyrie the other day. Is he still under contract with us?

    I think the most important thing for us with the 8th pick is to get a serviceable NBA player who is a starter caliber player. Of course an all star would be nice but if we believe either KP or Willie can be an all star level player (or both) then we don’t need our 8th pick to be an all star. just a good player. I’d much rather we land a solid double with this pick than try to hit a home run and strike out. This player is only just one piece of the puzzle no matter how good he is.

    If Louis Labeyrie can be signed to a long term contract with NY and he wants to come to play for the Knicks, it makes KOQ more expendable in a trade.

    I think that the rumored Philly/Sacto trade will happen and Sacto will take Jackson at 3, PHX will take Fox at 4, and Philly will take Monk at 5. Then Orlando could do a few things: either go Smith Jr., Tatum, or Isaac, and I think they’ll go Isaac. The TWolves are a wild card here (Markkanen makes the most sense) but I could see them taking Smith Jr. and they really don’t need Tatum. So I see Tatum falling to us, and I’m not into it. I’m hoping they’d still take Frank in that scenario, but who knows?

    LL is 25 years old, now, so that works against him. However, those are pretty beastly numbers he put up last year, esp. rebounding.

    I took the Warriors in 5, but they may get the sweep. Cleveland might let LBJ and Irving play all 48 minutes.

    Labeyrie’s contract as a 2nd round pick doesn’t begin until he comes stateside and at least attends training camp. That hasn’t happened yet, so the knicks still has his whole rookie contract pending. It’s amazing that he could represent yet another Gaines win.

    Re his rebounding – Hollinger did an analysis a few years ago suggesting that on average, rebounding increases by 18% when going from Euroleague –> NBA. Based on that he’d basically be by far the best rebounder in the NBA if he came over with an ORB of 20.3 (Joakim Noah led the league with 17.1) and a DRB% of 35.9 (Drummond was #1 at 36.2, Whiteside was #2 at 35.3), and a total rebound rate of 28.1 (Drummond led the league with 25.2).

    The number translations are from Euroleague, I don’t believe Labeyrie was playing in Euroleague when he put up these numbers.

    Why would Phoenix pass on Tatum for Fox when they have Tyler Ulis and Eric Bledsoe? There is no way Tatum gets passed the Suns. If Sacramento trades up for Jackson then De’Aaron Fox falls:

    Fultz
    Ball
    Jackson
    Tatum
    Monk
    Smith Jr/Fox

    That’s your top 6, and surprisingly you’re in a situation where one of DSJr and Fox is on the board at 7 with Isaac and Ntilikina. That’s a great situation for the Knicks because it’s very likely Isaac goes 7th and we can pick up a point guard. There’s another situation where Isaac and Markkanen go 6th and 7th, and that leaves Fox, Smith Jr, and Ntilikina available at pick 8. But let’s assume Smith Jr was promised by Sacramento that they would take him 5th. Then the draft should play out like this:

    BOS: Fultz
    LAL: Ball
    PHI: Jackson
    PHO: Tatum
    SAC: Smith Jr
    ORL: Isaac
    MIN: Markkanen (or they trade down to 9 and Dallas moves up for Fox)
    NYK: Our choice between Fox and Ntilikina.

    Labeyrie put up pretty impressive numbers in the playoffs this year (albeit in only two games). He averaged 17 points (on a ridiculous .643 eFG%) and 12 boards in 29.5 MPG.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/740747-2011-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-1st-and-2nd-round-picks

    “With huge hands, athleticism and versatility, Kawhi Leonard made an impressive climb up draft boards after the NBA draft combine. If he falls past Washington at No. 6, which is a big if, there is no way he’ll be skipped by the Kings as well.”

    -Kawhi was drafted 15th overall.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1685277-2013-nba-mock-draft-last-minute-picks-and-predictions

    “If Ben McLemore falls to No. 4, the Charlotte Bobcats shouldn’t even hesitate before taking him off the board.” Charlotte didn’t pick him lol.

    “Trey Burke is just too much to pass up at No. 6.” lol the Pelicans passed on him, too.

    In 2015 Justise Winslow fell to #10.

    My point is basically that we really don’t know how teams will pick until teams pick. De’Aaron Fox’s floor could be all the way down at #9 with Dallas.

    My point is basically that we really don’t know how teams will pick until teams pick. De’Aaron Fox’s floor could be all the way down at #9 with Dallas.

    A few exceptions doesn’t take away from the general fact that most of the time you do know what teams are looking for. Surprises obviously do occur, but they’re relatively rare, especially that high in the draft. And it certainly seems as though we know that Sacramento is looking for a “floor general” point guard. Maybe they think Smith Jr. is that guy, but it seems unlikely.

    On a tangential note, boy, Leonard really shouldn’t have fallen past #6 in that draft. I was shocked at the time that it happened.

    @5 Phil makes the picks. He decides who we draft. Gaines works for and was hired by Phil.

    Will we even get chance to workout Frank if his team makes the finals?

    Clarence Gaines could take a shit on the basketball court, tell Phil to draft it, and Phil would draft it

    Gaines makes the picks

    @29

    Willy wasn’t drafted on Gaines’ recommendation. It was a combination of Mills and Knicks head European scout Kevin Wilson.

    Didn’t know that. I stand corrected.

    How long has Kevin Wilson been with us

    I think awhile. Have to look for it, but I remember reading he was with us even as far as the Rubio draft.

    He’s been here forever bc he came over from Utah with Scott Layden and used to get credit for AK47.

    @29 First you say that Phil would draft Gaines’ shit if Gaines told him to do so and a minute later you say you stand corrected. Have you ever considered a career in politics?
    Phil hired Gaines and Phil makes the calls on who gets drafted. Dont allow your blind hatred of the man to cloud your judgement.

    @33 Ricky’s always been destined to be a Knick. Just like Frank.

    An article from 2009?

    The question was “How long has he been with the team?” so an old article was quite helpful to demonstrate that he’s been here since at least 2009.

    Can’t wait to see part four of this battle next year. I wonder who the cavs will add in. The arms race. I think it may be melo and one other person

    I could see the Cavs becoming a high lottery team within 2 years. Lebron is already on the downward side of his career and isn’t getting any younger. Love might be done by then because of his injuries (or greatly diminished). Kyrie might be the only one left. Let’s trade Melo there for their 2020 first round pick.

    Er, I could see the cavs taking a chance with melo because they need a 3rd guy to score on his own. They were outscored 12 to 0 in the 2.5 mins LeBron sat.
    Some kind of 3 way where Cleve gets melo, O’Quinn and Lee with love going to Boston…… off to the trade machine

    Cleveland needs defense not scoring. Love for Crowder, Smart, Zeller (for salary purposes) and a pick or Rozier- who says no? Maybe Cleveland could get more for Love- I’m not sure what his value is right now. But a Kyrie, Smart, Crowder, LBJ + either Shump or TT (depending on whether you want to go big or small) matches up better with the Warriors than Cleveland does now. Maybe you try for a Love- Paul George swap hoping that teaming George with LBJ will keep him from opting out to go to L.A.. I’m not sure who else you might get for Love that would help immediately. I’d prefer the Celtics deal if I were Cleveland- I think Crowder is a better defender and a better fit plus they’d get some bench help.

    Lebron can leave in 2018 so Cleveland needs to keep him happy. Cleveland could be done and headed for the lottery quicker than many people realize.

    There is no beating GS with defense. You have to outscore them. Send in waves of shooters.

    If I’m Cleveland I’d try to trade Kyrie for Jimmy Butler.

    I don’t think Chicago would go for that but yeah, do that and then swap Love for Paul George (or Crowder+Smart) and they’d at least have a better shot.

    There is no beating GS with defense. You have to outscore them. Send in waves of shooters.

    Probably pretty obvious, but you really need to dictate the pace with GSW. Cleveland have been sucked into playing the Warriors game and they just don’t have the tools to be that kind of a team. Those Boston guys would at least help that with a bit of suffocating D. That said, unless you are signing a KD clone, there is probably not much you can do really! Cleveland should at least kick the tires with Melo, but that’s just coming from a super biased Knicks fan.

    i hope Drummond gets traded if only bc I have no idea what his market value would be and I’m curious

    Cleveland needed Melo for the last two minutes of the game last night. He probably would have put up the points they needed to get the win. It would be the other 30 minutes he played that would have fucked them into not needing him for those two minutes.

    If the Cavs want to beat the Warriors next year then they would trade for Kyle O’Quinn (and Melo but he’s not leaving). They need players who will show up. They are getting swept because they got nothing from anybody outside of their top 3 guns. Tristan Thompson, JR Smith, Iman Shumpert and Deron Williams have been terrible. I’d try like hell to move Tristan Thompson’s contract and get Kyle O’Quinn from the Knicks. I think Irving, Korver, James, Love, and O’Quinn is a championship starting five provided they can stay healthy and get good minutes out of 1 or 2 bench guys.

    I can’t see anybody beating Golden State, but LeBron is phenomenal. If you can give him guys who can hit open jumpers and not wet the bed when he takes 2 minutes on the bench, he can bring you a championship.

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