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Wednesday, October 18, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.09.20)

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: In Michael Beasley, the Knicks Have a Perfectly Imperfect Symbol
    (Wednesday, September 20, 2017 12:36:59 AM)

    Once the No. 2 pick in the N.B.A. draft, Beasley has been something of a basketball vagabond. But he is only 28, and he is brimming with confidence.

  • [SNY Knicks] Michael Beasley says Joakim Noah ‘looks great’
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:20:04 PM)

    Knicks C Joakim Noah “looks great” as he prepares for the upcoming season, teammate Michael Beasley says.

  • [SNY Knicks] Healthy Jarrett Jack looking forward to opportunity with Knicks
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:15:31 PM)

    Jack says the Knicks will play a more up-tempo style of play under coach Jeff Hornacek now that Phil Jackson and the triangle offense are gone.

  • [SNY Knicks] Beasley sees Knicks as playoff team, wants Melo to stay
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:30:40 PM)

    Michael Beasley says he “would love New York to be my home,” but he’s not here to replace Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NYDN] Joakim Noah ‘looks great’ as he works back from PED suspension
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:24:10 PM)

    Joakim Noah is back on the court and his physique is still impressive.

  • [NYDN] Confident Michael Beasley: Knicks can be No. 5 or No. 6 in East
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:21:17 PM)

    Say this for Michael Beasley: he doesn’t lack confidence.

  • [NYDN] Knicks need Carmelo Anthony gone and Kristaps Porzingis here
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:18:57 PM)

    Barring an 11th-hour deal, Carmelo Anthony will remain with the Knicks next week when the team holds their annual media day.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo, Porzingis and triangle not yet at Knicks workouts
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:55:10 PM)

    There have been three notable absences from the Knicks’ voluntary workouts: the triangle offense, Kristaps Porzingis and Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ new PG gives telling peek of what’s not in this offense
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 12:47:04 PM)

    If Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek plans on installing any leftover triangle principles from the failed Phil Jackson regime, it hasn’t happened yet. Jarrett Jack, newly signed veteran Knicks point guard, said at a Tuesday press conference that during voluntary workouts the past two weeks Hornacek hasn’t mentioned the T-word and has only talked up his…

  • [NYPost] Michael Beasley’s confident intro: Knicks will shock NBA
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:30:28 AM)

    Michael Beasley views himself as a scoring machine, constantly touting his points-per-minute averages. He’s also a quote machine. Beasley, the former No. 2 pick who’s had a journeyman career, says the rebuilding Knicks, if Carmelo Anthony stays, will make the playoffs as a “five, six seed’’ because of their scoring potency. Beasley also made an…

  • [ESPN] ‘Your favorite player’s favorite player': The wit and wisdom of Michael Beasley
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:53:05 PM)

    ‘Your favorite player’s favorite player': The wit and wisdom of Michael Beasley

  • [NY Newsday] Michael Beasley calls Carmelo Anthony a mentor and friend
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:58:23 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Michael Beasley considers Carmelo Anthony a mentor, one of his best friends, and said he can’t wait to play with him.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks’ Jarrett Jack impressed with Frank Ntilikina, eager to mentor him
    (Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:55:00 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — After missing nearly a year and a half with a leg injury, Jarrett Jack is happy to be back in the NBA and looking forward to helping Knicks rookie Frank Ntilikina any way possible.

  • 65 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.09.20)

    1. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      I’ve always appreciated Beasley’s effortless scoring ability. At first I hated him as a SF because even though he’s long and agile, I never thought he could make it as a perimeter defender. I always thought that if he stayed around 240 and got stronger that he’d be a plus at PF with those scoring gifts, and a good coach can better use his length on defense and mask his deficiencies there a bit. He’s like a 6’9″ JR in the sense that he has all the gifts, but he’s not there mentally enough to count on him.

      The fact that he’s 6’9″ 235 is a big part of the reason why I’m ok with him being a combo forward off the bench as we really don’t have a true back up 4. I hoped Hornacek can put his size and skillset to good use in that role. But now it seems as if he HAS to play primarily at SF, especially if he’s lost weight. That puts a backup PF rotation at Lance/KOQ. KOQ is fine, but once Noah comes back- he’s gonna play. Lance would be a nice balance with Beasley, but he doesn’t rebound well. We’ve got a glut up front, just not a talented one. KOQ deserves to start, as he is our most talented big by far behind Willy and KP. Would KOQ starting amd getting 20 mpg a game with Willy anchoring that second unit with Beasley and Lance in the frontcourt work? But wait..if Noah is healthy..truly healthy..he plays. And that throws a bit of a monkeywrench in the bigs’ rotation.

      Who most likely gets traded? KOQ? Lance? Wouldn’t trading KOQ hurt us unless we get a good 1st in return? Wouldn’t trading Lance in favor of Beasley hurt our defense? Our frontcourt rotation is hard to work with because all of the talented younger players play the same position with not enough position flexibility to accomodate them as long as Noah is on the roster. And we all know Noah isn’t going anywhere..

    2. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      Initially I wasn’t particularly enamored with the Beasley signing because I think we need more defense. But he’s cheap enough and he doesn’t seem like he’ll be any kind of locker room problem. I’m good.

    3. Z-man

      @36

      Or “I’m trying really hard to squeeze out of this random quote my preconceived ideas of a kid that hasn’t played a single minute in a training camp yet”.

      Says a guy who has no preconceived ideas about him…yeah, right.

    4. lavor postell

      1. I feel like I probably converse with a few of you on Twitter unknowingly which is cool.

      2. My feeling is that we’re going to play small quite a bit more this year whether Melo stays or goes. The organization’s desire to keep Lee even after signing THJ and then adding Sessions and potentially Jack, if he sticks, along with Beasley make me believe we’ll see lots of 2 PG or 2 wing lineups.

    5. Bruno Almeida

      @5

      Never said I didn’t have preconceived ideas about him, I obviously do. I’m just not using a random quote from Jarrett Jack, offensive savant, who’s been on the team for a week, to make it seem like my preconceived ideas have been validated. Let the kid suck in one game at least before you throw him to the wolves.

    6. Z-man

      No, you’ve used a bunch of other random shit to support your preconceived ideas. But whatever, we’ll find out soon enough who is correct. As a lifelong Knicks fan, I sure hope that my preconceived ideas are proven wrong and that Frank goes on to a HOF career. But as someone who has read, seen and heard all the same shit that you have, I am going with the reasonably widely-held preconceived idea that he will not be as good as the main guys we passed over to draft him any time soon, and probably ever. And the Jack quote made absolutely no mention of any offensive strength…shot, handle, driving ability. To me, that’s telling.

    7. lavor postell

      I am going with the reasonably widely-held preconceived idea that he will not be as good as the main guys we passed over to draft him any time soon, and probably ever.

      There seems to be one guy, DSJ, who we passed over who he allegedly will never be better than. This is coming from many of the same analysts that thought taking KP over Mudiay, among others, was a major mistake. The fact is the draft is a crapshoot and increasingly so the further down you move.

      DSJ might be some incredible steal who makes multiple All-Star teams, but the Knicks and 7 other teams, passed on him too, including teams that needed PGs in Sacramento (took Fox even) and Orlando. There was no consensus on him as an elite prospect and I don’t believe Dallas’ BS he was the guy they wanted all along when Cuban and Donnie Nelson flew to Europe to meet him and they hired his freaking coach at Strasbourg to coach at SL until, you know, the Knicks took Frank.

    8. JK47

      Z-Man knows that Ntilikina is never going to be any good with the same certainty that he knows Ron Baker is going to be awesome.

    9. Bruno Almeida

      Well, if all the arguments I ever used are “random shit” to you, there’s not much I can or want to say. You just keep hammering the same point over and over and it’s tiresome,we already get that you hated the pick, it’s just annoying by now.

      The biggest “random shit” that supports my preconceived ideas is actually the fact that the people who I generally see being completely wrong in this board hated Ntilikina and loved Smith.

    10. Z-man

      Donovan Mitchell and Malik Monk were also available if you wanted to go guard, and Zach Collins was available if you felt he was the best player available regardless of position. I would have taken Smith Jr or any of those guys over Frank. That’s my opinion, and what is KB for if not to share opinions after reviewing the tons of shit that you, I and everyone else did?

      In other words, your (and others here’s) opinion is just as half-baked as mine, so if it annoys you that I disagree with you, at least admit that I have just as good a chance of being right in retrospect as you do.

    11. Frank

      But as someone who has read, seen and heard all the same shit that you have, I am going with the reasonably widely-held preconceived idea that he will not be as good as the main guys we passed over to draft him any time soon, and probably ever. And the Jack quote made absolutely no mention of any offensive strength…shot, handle, driving ability. To me, that’s telling.

      Not sure i agree with this. Most analytics people have high hopes for Frank. Scouts mention he has an advanced ability re: passing out of the PNR. He shot unbelievably well in the 18Us (small sample) both on spot-ups and off the dribble (increasingly important in the NBA nowadays) and shot 39% as an 18 year old from the international 3 point line in a bigger sample. Before the season he was a consensus top 10 pick in the draft, which is ultimately where he ended up. And if we had taken Dennis Smith, I feel pretty certain that Dallas would have taken him with the next pick.

      Which players taken after him would you have preferred? I think it would’ve been very reasonable to take Donovan Mitchell (mocked significantly lower than Frank in pretty much every draft) or of course Dennis Smith. But it certainly wasn’t a no-brainer.

      At the end of the day, the comps we heard for Dennis Smith were guys like Steve Francis and Derrick Rose. The comps we heard for Frank were guys like George Hill. Which would you rather have on your team?

    12. Z-man

      Bruno, and it’s annoying to me that you and others love the pick and are projecting Frank to be a stud based on things like winning the MVP of Euro U18 and comparing him to HOFers that did that. If it annoys you, tough shit, deal with it.

    13. ClashFan

      @9
      Agree.

      I saw Jalen Brown joking (or was he?) about the earth being flat. On the one hand, who cares? On the other, WTF?

    14. DRed

      Dennis Smith had a better year in what is probably a better league than Frank, so it’s not a wild leap to think he’s a better prospect. He was probably the 3rd best point guard prospect in the draft and probably something like the 6th or 7th best prospect overall. But he’s not a sure fire all star either, and Frank is a difficult guy to project (which is already a difficult game with very young prospects), so I can’t tell you confidently that we should have picked DSJ instead.

      For whatever reason Dennis is a basketball twitter darling because he fell a few spots in the draft

    15. Bruno Almeida

      I always admitted you have a chance of being right.

      But 1) you keep bringing it up, when nobody else is doing it. 2) you don’t talk in chances, you’re absolutely sure he’s a bust and every counter argument is random shit.

      Those things are annoying.

    16. Frank

      @15 – One of Kyle Lowry’s biggest strengths coming out of college was his defensive tenacity. I think it’s pretty clear that isn’t one of Smith’s strengths.

      Look – I like Dennis Smith and would’ve been happy if we had drafted him. That said, we’ve said ad nauseum here that we’re sick of getting the flashy players that don’t do the things that actually win basketball games. We drafted a huge combo guard who actually LIKES to play defense and is good at it. His size and length probably means that once he gets a bit stronger, will be able to switch/guard 1-4 without giving up too much – needless to say that is a very valuable thing in the modern “positionless” NBA, whereas guys like Dennis Smith will always be at a huge disadvantage in PNR coverage, especially if they are as lackadaisical as he was in college. Frank is a high level shooting prospect by all reports, and isn’t a ballhog. IMHO his floor is pretty high, and his ceiling, while perhaps not quite as high as Dennis Smith, is still pretty darn good.

    17. ClashFan

      I’ve got no idea how Frank or Smith are going to end up. Who knows?

      But, I think the Knicks made the right pick at the time. Smith is supremely talented and likely to at least be a good scorer, but IIRC he already has had a major knee injury and may not be a high effort guy at times. Plus, the Knicks have horrific perimeter D, and Frank should at least help a lot in that area. And, the Knicks are not going to be a serious playoff team for at least 2-3 more years, so they have the luxury of time with Frank.

      It’s not like the Knicks reached badly for him. Plus, with KP and Willy looking like good Euro picks, taking Frank looks to be part of a good continuing Euro strategy in the draft, one of the few things that the Knicks have done well, recently.

    18. swiftandabundant

      Dallas wanted Frank. They flew scouts overseas to interview him and watch him. Them saying they wanted DSJ all along is them saving face. They were even looking into trying to trade up with Minny to snag him.

      look, no one knows who will end up better. But Frank was a consensus top 10 pick ALL YEAR. Considering we did pretty well with our last Euro pick in the top ten I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. And character issues do matter especially with a franchise like The Knicks, who need all the high character guys they can get.

      There’s a great chance DSJ soars his rookie year and wins rookie of the year but then doesn’t get any better while Frank struggles but continues to improve and has a super long NBA career. Or they both could end up being good for different reasons. Or they both might be a bust.

      To lament the pick when he hasn’t played a single game is dumb. The Knicks did not overreach picking him.

    19. thenoblefacehumper

      I was fully in agreement with Z-Man until it came out that Smith’s team refused to give the Knicks his medical records. That very well may have been borne out of a desire to avoid the Knicks (for which which I couldn’t blame him) rather than having something to hide, but regardless it’s not a situation you want to mess with when it comes to a draft pick. If Smith turns out to be a healthy and awesome player I can still live with passing on him due to health concerns.

      If health wasn’t a factor, though, I think Smith would’ve been the obvious pick.

    20. Ntilakilla

      Dennis Smith had a better year in what is probably a better league than Frank, so it’s not a wild leap to think he’s a better prospect.

      This is just flat out untrue and its sad people continue to repeat this statement as if it were self-evidently true. The French League > NCAA. More mature, experienced competition there which plays at a professional level. Dennis Smith cleaned up playing against scrub college teams.

    21. swiftandabundant

      @ 23 – also his team sucked. Yes he played in the ACC but they weren’t even good enough to make the NIT. If he was such an awesome player, he should have been able to get them into the NCAA tournament at least.

    22. Bruno Almeida

      @24

      Yeah, they were 12th out of 15 teams in the ACC behind powerhouses such as Clemson, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest. He had injuriy concerns, his efficiency stats are poor for what you expect out of a star college PG and there’s legitimate concerns for his defense.

      That’s what I don’t get, people who hate Ntilikina say every argument is his defense is based on conjecture and projection based on potential. And yet they assume DSJr is the real deal when his production was mediocre and his team went 4-14 in the ACC. If he had Lonzo Ball stats I would gladly admit the Knicks made the wrong decision.

    23. kevin5318

      Dallas wanted Frank. They flew scouts overseas to interview him and watch him. Them saying they wanted DSJ all along is them saving face. They were even looking into trying to trade up with Minny to snag him.

      They also hired his French coach to lead the SL team.

    24. bobneptune

      I am going with the reasonably widely-held preconceived idea that he will not be as good as the main guys we passed over to draft him any time soon, and probably ever.

      Z,

      Why do you hold that notion? Honestly none of us have seen a lot of him…. but a couple of people have: Gaines, Phil and the rest of the Knicks scouting staff plus the new President of BBO. Say what you want about Phil and Co, but they did a pretty good job drafting.

      It wasn’t like they winged it on this one…. he was known as “their guy” pretty much all along and they did super due diligence on him. I’m guessing he will have a very good career because there were excellent options remaining on the board and they didn’t need a Hail Mary choice here. They collectively love the guy. Could they be completely wrong…. yeah it is possible but I think that’s really unlikely

      I’m pretty comfortable for those reasons only that he will be better than you think.

      I’d really like to know their draft board and where in the top 10 they had him picked on ability…. not value.

    25. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      RE: Dallas/DSJ/Ntilikina:
      I think Dallas may have liked Ntilikina more than DSJ. But I don’t necessarily think they would have drafted him over DSJ. For one, defense does not sell. And with Dirk on his way out, you are not gonna sell Mavs fans on defense centered around Noel and Ntilikina. What you can sell them on is a dynamic PnR with DSJ & Noel with DSJ being a more aggressive scorer. And let’s be honest, out West the offense is so good, no one is gonna be able to build a defense to win out there. You hafta rely on offense more there, and DSJ fits the bill. They may not be far off as all around prospects, but when you’re rebuilding you are gonna pick dynamic offense over defense and intangibles more often than not. The Knicks however, can afford to go defense over offense with the pick because we already had KP and Willy to build around. But with Swan Song Dirk, how are you gonna fill a slot that high up in a rebuild with a player who’s not flashy, and puts defense and team play 1st- and expect fans to be patient with that? After Dirk, they have nothing to sell. Noel’s not gonna go out and get you 20 plus points and double digit rebounds and a few blocks per game.

    26. ClashFan

      @28
      Yes, and maybe Dallas really liked DSJ but thought that he’d be long gone by the time they picked. Thus they coveted Frank but were stunned when DSJ fell to them. That’s possible, but it was also pretty widely rumored that Frank was the Knicks’ guy all along.

    27. Bruno Almeida

      Well, before the draft everyone expected Minnesota to not pick a guard in the 7th slot, and it was well expected that Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Fox, Tatum and Isaac would have all been gone by them, so unless Dallas really expected something really bizarre to happen in the draft, it was pretty clear either Ntilikina or Dennis Smith would drop to them. They might have expected the Knicks to go with Smith, but everybody that said something about it made it clear Ntilikina was the Knicks pick. So I really dont buy that Dallas was planning to draft him all along and the coach hire was just an elaborate ruse, I think they were fine either way (and Dallas would have 100% picked Ntilikina if it went the other way around).

    28. Ntilakilla

      So Dallas, one of the best managed franchises in the league, chose a guy who they know won’t play defense because he’s a flashier player than what was available? Does this even make sense to anyone? Dallas under Rick Carlisle has always craved and courted defensive oriented players. Tyson Chandler, Nerlens Noel, Dwight Howard, Jason Kidd are just a few. I doubt they believe anyone player they draft is going to replace an all time NBA scorer like Dirk Nowtizki.

    29. Donnie Walsh

      they were 12th out of 15 teams in the ACC behind powerhouses such as Clemson, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest.

      A lot of good pro players played on pretty bad college teams. I wouldn’t hold that against anybody in predicting future success (Washington was a paultry 9-22 with the #1 pick leading the way).

    30. freethrow

      DSjr has surgically repaired knee, if you’re looking to pick someone who will last multiple contracts with your club that would be a red flag.

      Malik Monk was the better alternative at that pick than DSjr.

    31. Frank O.

      Seriously, I’m of the mind that whoever the Knicks pick, they won’t achieve as they are supposed to because this team’s player development is shit.
      How many middling players have the Knicks drafted that were borderline makers of the team, but then were traded and became serviceable players elsewhere?
      This franchise sucks ass at player development.

      So I don’t think Frank will be all he can be in NYC and Smith wouldn’t have achieved his potential here either.

    32. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      The funny thing about this Frank debate is that we may not know who is right for at least 5 years. He’ll still be very young then!

      I have no doubt whatsoever he’s eventually going to be a “plus defender” because he has the size and length to become a top defender and people that have played with him say he’s already good.

      I have no doubt he’s going to be a VERY good spot up shooter that can play off other players and knock down 3s. He may even demonstrate that this year, with the best yet to come.

      What we don’t know is how far he can go as a player that creates for himself and others. We may have to wait quite awhile to find out.

    33. Z-man

      Z-Man knows that Ntilikina is never going to be any good with the same certainty that he knows Ron Baker is going to be awesome.

      Bingo!

      (which is with no certainty whatsoever)

    34. DS

      UPDATE: Frank Isola is still the worst.

      http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-carmelo-anthony-kristaps-porzingis-article-1.3507138?%3F%3F

      “Anthony’s camp is cautiously optimistic that a deal will be struck before Monday, and trying not to think about the potential media circus that will take place if Carmelo is still with the Knicks. Two weeks ago, Carmelo’s wife, La La, said the family thought a trade would have been completed by now. Mentally, Carmelo and his family have moved on to Houston. Reality is another story. Hopefully, Mills and Perry will have the right answers when they address the media on Friday because the Carmelo issue isn’t going away until he goes away.”

      Thanks for the revealation, Frank!

    35. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      I wouldn’t pay much attention to anything Cuban says or does. I think that man’s life is proof that the United States is the greatest country in the world. It shows you can become a billionaire by selling out at the top of a once in a century stock market bubble and then parlay that into a NBA championship all without knowing the market was in a bubble when you sold or much about basketball.

    36. Z-man

      I always admitted you have a chance of being right.

      But 1) you keep bringing it up, when nobody else is doing it. 2) you don’t talk in chances, you’re absolutely sure he’s a bust and every counter argument is random shit.

      Those things are annoying.

      Response:
      1) Define”always” and tell me when the last time I posted anything negative about Frank, since I don’t recall doing so in quite some time. And the comment that you are getting so bent out of shape about was made in the context of Jack’s quote, not out of the blue. And it was meant to be funny and not directed at you or anyone else. You chose to take it personally.

      2) This is a dumb, self-serving statement. Of course I’m talking in chances! Nobody here knows anything for sure, least of all about whether 18-20 yo draft picks will ultimately be good. My “educated guess” is that he will not be very good, yours is that he will. Our opinions are based on the same scanty evidence. What’s your big problem with that? The answer is obvious: you can’t deal with anyone who sees things differently than you do.

      You’re the one (and there are a few others) who gets bent out of shape and accusatory any time someone has the gall to post something out of step with your opinion, especially when it comes to your personal golden boy Ntilikina. You couldn’t even let my tongue-in-cheek quip about Jack’s quote slide without a snarky, condescending retort directed at me personally. I’m cool with that, but not with your whining about being annoyed, and saying dickish things like you did above. You are as supercilious and cocksure in your commentary as anyone here.

    37. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      So Dallas, one of the best managed franchises in the league, chose a guy who they know won’t play defense because he’s a flashier player than what was available? Does this even make sense to anyone? Dallas under Rick Carlisle has always craved and courted defensive oriented players. Tyson Chandler, Nerlens Noel, Dwight Howard, Jason Kidd are just a few. I doubt they believe anyone player they draft is going to replace an all time NBA scorer like Dirk Nowtizki.

      Great point, and you’ll get no argument from me. When I said what I said, I was thinking of Cuban the owner. He has a great coach, and when Dirk is done, he’s gonna need a young player to sell as a star sooner than later. Ntilikina is not that dude. As great as the Mavs fans are, they are not going to go out to see a team headlined by a further away Ntilikina and Noel. Hope is easier to sell when you have the “flash” of DSJ

    38. Z-man

      @22 Smith Jr’s refusal to release his medical records is a legit red flag, I get that. At that point, If I were drafting, I possibly would have gone for Mitchell. But it’s not about Smith Jr. vs Frank; it’s about Smith or Mitchell or Collins (and to a lesser degree, Monk) vs. Frank. I would have picked any of them over Frank. Although Collins is somewhat redundant, I would guess that his trade value at this moment is higher than Frank’s. Which is an interesting way of framing this discussion as we move forward: which of these guys has the highest trade value?

    39. Ntilakilla

      As a 20-21 year old in college Donovan Mitchell had a TS% of .534. Are people really telling me this guy has better potential than Ntilikina, the Frenchise?

    40. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      We could not draft Dennis Smith Jr after he did not allow us access to his medical records concerning his knee. Could. Not. It would have felt great to have DSJr tear up Orlando but the way that young man lands after he attacks the rim scares me. It’s the same way Derrick Rose lands; reckless and without the proper technique to absorb the shock. I had Dennis Smith Jr ranked higher on my draft board but I also said I would be tweeting him every day to get him to change the way he lands because that ACL will tear again if he doesn’t change his jumping/landing technique.

    41. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      Dallas isn’t very well managed, they’re just very good at managing media.

      I agree.

      If you make a list of all the moves Cuban made (including breaking up the championship team prematurely) you’ll see a very long list of bade trades and FA signings.

    42. Bruno Almeida

      @40

      Oh, give me a break.

      Your opinion about the arguments I made on why I think Ntilikina can succeed: “No, you’ve used a bunch of other random shit to support your preconceived ideas.”

      You call someone else’s opinion a bunch of other random shit and then tries to take the moral high ground of “well I don’t really know for sure, anything can happen, you’re getting angry because you can stand diversity of opinions”. Hell yeah. I’m the dickish and whiny dude who will ignore arguments contrary to my belief.

      All I was saying for the longest time on the Ntilikina discussion is it’s pointless, he hasn’t played a single minute, so let’s call him a bust after he sucks, not keep beating the dead horse of omg DSJr will be so much better because no-one knows, not me, not you, not the Knicks.

      But well, I guess it’s my time to take the high road and say I’ll just ignore your tongue in cheek quips then.

    43. danvt

      Two concerns. One is the supposed “uproarious laughter” in the DAL war room. This is either a really scary example of NYK incompetence or very mean spirited propaganda. I tend to think the latter considering the consensus around Frank. The other is the actual freakish athleticism shown by DSjr at SL and taken notice of by other rookies. This seems real and maybe the kid is a sleeper. In that case he may make more than NYK regret their choice.

      All in all I remain optimistic about Frank, though. I see a bit of old school xenophobic bias and NYK hate in the negative projections and refuse to read into the no show at SL Certainly this discussion could be tabled until at least pre season.

    44. Bruno Almeida

      @50

      From what I remember, the source for the uproarious laughter comment was Rick Carlisle, I remember reading Tim McMahon, who covered the Mavs, quoting Carlisle on that. I mean… it might as well be true, but it seems fishy. The last good player the Mavericks have drafted has been Jason Kidd, so I’m also not sure how I feel about that, even though that matters little since they have traded picks like crazy over the years.

    45. the don nelson era

      They have made some decent draft day trades. Dirk and Crowder off the top of my head, I dunno about the rest of their record

    46. DRed

      Last 10 seasons they’ve missed the playoffs twice, lost 6 times in the first round, once in the second round, and won an NBA title. Obviously, that’s light years better than the Knicks, but they’ve generally just been pretty good.

    47. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, I was mostly arguing that we have no idea how well they draft because they either haven’t drafted at all (because of trades) or only had low end picks since they have been good for so long. There’s no track record to analyse.

    48. Cock Jowles, #1 Tanking Denialist

      The Mavs’ situation looks almost as bleak as the Knicks’. Last year, Nowitzki, Barnes, Wes Matthews and Deron Williams were paid $73M combined. That’s insane!

    49. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      Earlier I said after Dirk is done, the Mavs have nothing. I forgot about Barnes. He’s 25 and had a career year, so that’s at least another young piece. Not KP good, but still decent. I wonder if he can still get 20 a game with no Dirk. If DSJ is as good as advertised, Barnes may be able to be that young 2-way complimentary player they need to speed up that rebuild.

    50. Bruno Almeida

      I don’t know, I don’t buy into Harrison Barnes.

      Every single stat except points for him stayed the same, rebounding, steals, assists, blocks, every shooting percentage (he shot a little worse from 3 but better from the FT line)… The only things that have changed are usage (~15 to 25 last year) and minutes (5 more per game), so he scored more points with a little worse efficiency in higher volume.

      His improvement getting to the line and making more FTs is good, but everything else screams mediocre player who just happened to be in a situation where he gets to shoot more because of worse teammates. He’s still 25 so there might be some room for improvement still, but he has been really consistently just decent for pretty much 3 years now. I would hate to be paying his contract as a franchise.

    51. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      I don’t disagree. But he is a young piece. But overall, Dallas’ situation is worse than ours. Their franchise player is on his way out and all they have is an ok 2 way player in Barnes, a slightly overrated Tyson Chandler lite in Noel, and a rookie PG with injury concerns but the potential to be a really good offensive player. I would vonsider DSJ a Derrick Rose with a better jumper, but he already passes and rebounds better- if he learns to limit the low percentage shots, he’s gonna be scary good on offense. Whereas our franchise player is on his way out, but we have a player with the potential to be transcendent in KP, a young, efficient center on both ends in Willy, a physical freak of a PG who relies on court savvy an plays a refreshing team oriented brand of ball on both ends rather than rely on explosiveness and size at his position in Ntilikina, a high end role player in KOQ, an up and coming TH2, and a surprisingly good 3 & D wing in Dotson. So, were a little ahead of the curve in comparison to Dallas.

      I just wanna say again how excited I am for Ntilikina. I love the way he plays, and I love the fact he focuses on team ball and defense while still having an offensive game that will play well- meaning he won’t be primarily a spot up shooter on offense. But more than that, I think his lack of suddenness and explosion on offense bodes well for him. Most athletic, big PG’s have gotten injured way too early and never fully recovered. Ntilikina should be able to grow into his body and game at a pace that works. Like I said before, I would be very happy with a fascimile of Derek Harper as a Knick. Harper’s problem once he became a Knick was he was already past his prime. That won’t be the case with Ntilikina, of course.

    52. rama in the JING

      His size and length probably means that once he gets a bit stronger, will be able to switch/guard 1-4 without giving up too much – needless to say that is a very valuable thing in the modern “positionless” NBA

      Exactly. It’s the kind of thing that makes a real difference, especially with Lee, Lance, Oaq, and KP. That team can D up pretty well if they have a competent plan.

    53. Cock Jowles, #1 Tanking Denialist

      Isn’t it crazy how Barnes went from one of the greatest teams of all-time to one of the worst teams in the league this year, and with the exception of shooting volume, his stats stayed pretty much at his career averages?

      It’s so weird… it’s like… it’s like basketball players… it’s like… it’s like they are responsible for their own production… so weird…

    54. Bruno Almeida

      @61

      Yeah, Barnes is like exhibit A for this. I was a bit shocked when I went to basketball reference and saw pretty much equal stats across the board, you’d think something would change just for the sake of a statistical anomaly right? Nope, everything literally the same.

      I think the Mavs are going to be decent if Dirk is healthy. Their starting lineup makes sense on paper (Smith, Matthews, Barnes, Nowitzki and Noel). They’ll probably the competitive and will take some games off decent teams but their future is weird… They have pretty much only Matthews and Barnes on big contracts, so it could go either way.

      Either DSJr is great and they leverage the cap room they’ll have into a really good player and they’ll be good, or DSJr is just ok, they re-sign Noel for a lot of money and sorta cap out, with no high picks ever and not much cap space to work with.

    55. KnickfaninNJ

      I think in the case of Ntilikina there is a no-eye test bias. That is, since most people in the US haven’t seen him play, they suspect he’s worse than the alternatives. It happens all over the NBA that teams prefer the players they know more of to the ones they don’t. Look at Doc Rivers as GM, for example. You need to have a good scouting organization and to trust them to pick players you haven’t been impressed with personally, and so foreign players can often be underestimated. Look at Porzingis. Gaines, who saw him a lot, thought he was worth a number one pick. Phil, who didn’t see him a lot, probably had to be persuaded to pick him at four. In retrospect, in some years Porzingis would have been worth a number one pick and in this draft he probably should have been number 2 after Towns. But most pundits and most of the fans looking on at the draft panned the pick. It’s possible that Smith is much better than expected (although he is still an injury risk). But it’s very unlikely that Ntilikina wasn’t worth an eighth pick in an average draft.

    56. english_knick

      There’s a concept in behavioural science known as outcome bias – it says that people are prone to think the quality of a decision was better if the outcome turns out to be good, irrespective of how the decision was actually made.

      You can’t rate the quality of our choice to select Frank over DSJ without knowing what went into it. By all accounts the knicks were thorough on Frank and couldn’t even get the records, let alone a workout, from Smith. On those bases alone it looks like a decent decision to me.

      A few summer league games which show that smith is a good athlete and explosive scorer – which we already knew – isn’t actually even sufficient evidence to count as an ‘outcome’ especially without seeing frank play. But if it were it still wouldn’t make it a bad decision to select frank, in my view.

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