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Monday, November 18, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2017.06.22)

  • [NYTimes] 2017 N.B.A. Mock Drafts: Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Then Who?
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:02:41 PM)

    The 76ers and Lakers are expected to take Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball with the top two picks. After that, it gets interesting.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Lakers Have a Plan While the Knicks Hold Triangle Tryouts
    (Thursday, June 22, 2017 1:21:58 AM)

    While the pieces seem to be falling into place in Los Angeles, turmoil surrounds the directionless Knicks and their president, Phil Jackson.

  • [NYTimes] Kristaps Porzingis Gone? Carmelo Anthony Staying? Phil Jackson on the State of the Knicks
    (Thursday, June 22, 2017 3:59:33 AM)

    Jackson, in an interview with the Madison Square Network, confirms the speculation that has surround two of the team’s marquee players.

  • [NYTimes] French Point Guard Frank Ntilikina Actually Likes the Knicks
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 11:46:52 PM)

    A presumptive lottery pick in Thursday’s N.B.A. draft even had kind words for Phil Jackson, the team’s embattled president.

  • [NY Newsday] Phil Jackson confirms he’s listening to offers for Kristaps Porzingis
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:37:00 PM)

    Phil Jackson acknowledged that he has received calls and is listening to offers for Kristaps Porzingis. The Knicks president didn’t dismiss the notion that he would move the 21-year-old forward for the right price.

  • [NY Newsday] Frank Ntilikina believes he’s a good fit for Knicks’ triangle
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:32:12 PM)

    French guard Frank Ntilikina met with Knicks president Phil Jackson and other team officials Wednesday morning.

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: NBA Draft Media Day
    (Thursday, June 22, 2017 2:54:39 AM)

    Michelle Yu catches up with all of the top prospects heading into Thursday night’s NBA draft in Brooklyn.

  • [SNY Knicks] Jackson says Knicks listening on trade proposals for Porzingis
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:56:23 PM)

    Knicks president Phil Jackson said in an interview with MSG Network that the Knicks are receiving calls and listening to trade proposals for Kristaps Porzingis.

  • [SNY Knicks] Michael Rapaport reacts to Porzingis trade rumors
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:06:50 PM)

    Actor and Knicks fan Michael Rapaport reacts to the trade rumors swirling around Knicks power forward Kristaps Porzingis on Loud Mouths…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks have their eyes on Donovan Mitchell, Jr.
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:01:07 PM)

    The Knicks have Louisville guard Donovan Mitchell Jr., the son of Mets director of player relations Donovan Mitchell, on their radar for the 2017 NBA Draft.

  • [SNY Knicks] Dennis Smith Jr., Markkanen viable Draft options for Knicks
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:45:47 PM)

    On the eve of the NBA Draft, here’s a look at four more prospects the Knicks could consider taking.

  • [SNY Knicks] PG Frank Ntilikina met with Knicks on Wednesday
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:11:43 PM)

    French prospect, PG Frank Ntilikina, met with the Knicks Wednesday morning, according to Adam Zagoria.

  • [SNY Knicks] Suns, Celtics among potential destinations for Kristaps Porzingis
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 11:00:18 AM)

    Knicks president Phil Jackson has not ruled out the possibility of trading Knicks F Kristaps Porzingis, and many teams are interested, per The Vertical’s Adrian Wojnarowski.

  • [SNY Knicks] PG Donovan Mitchell scheduled to work out for Knicks Wednesday
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:58:24 AM)

    Louisville prospect, PG Donovan Mitchell, is scheduled to workout for the Knicks Wednesday, per ESPN’s Ian Begley.

  • [SNY Knicks] Monk would be among ideal prospects to fit Knicks system, handle N.Y.
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:15:00 AM)

    Should Malik Monk be available when the Knicks pick at No. 8, New York could be looking at its future franchise point guard.

  • [SNY Knicks] Timeout with Taylor Rooks Podcast: NBA Finals MVP Kevin Durant
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:00:50 AM)

    Timeout with Taylor Rooks Podcast: NBA Finals MVP Kevin Durant

  • [NYDN] Duke’s Luke Kennard is sold on playing in Knicks’ triangle
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:00:23 PM)

    Kennard has shot up NBA Draft boards over the last several months.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony tells Knicks he wants to stay in New York
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:48:36 PM)

    Anthony was given a no-trade clause by Jackson during their contract negotiations in 2014.

  • [NYDN] Evaluating Knicks’ draft prospects for No. 8 overall pick
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:45:32 PM)

    The pros and cons of Knicks draft prospects for their No. 8 overall pick.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson says Knicks are listening to offers for Porzingis
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:42:06 PM)

    The Knicks are “listening” to trade offers for Porzingis.

  • [NYDN] Josh Jackson refuses to workout for Boston, Knicks could trade up
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 5:27:10 PM)

    Josh Jackson’s decision not to work out for the Boston Celtics could alter the top selections in Thursday’s NBA Draft.

  • [NYDN] Dennis Smith Jr. on Knicks, triangle & other guards in NBA draft
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:21:24 PM)

    Not long ago, Dennis Smith Jr. was considered better than all these point guards – Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball, D’Aaron Fox.

  • [NYDN] Frank Ntilikina on meeting with Knicks, upcoming NBA draft
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 11:23:07 AM)

    French point guard prospect Frank Ntilikina says he met with Phil Jackson, Jeff Hornacek and other members of the Knicks this week.

  • [NYDN] VIDEO: Michael Rapaport begs Phil not to trade Kristaps Porzingis
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:35:19 AM)

    Michael Rapaport joined fellow New Yorkers in opposition to reports of Phil Jackson’s willingness to trade away Kristaps Porzingis.

  • [NYDN] Celtics interested in trading for Knicks star Kristaps Porzingis
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:35:18 AM)

    As Phil Jackson’s stated publicly, he’s not ruling out dealing anybody — including Kristaps Porzingis. And the Celtics are interested.

  • [NYDN] Knicks eye either Booker, Chriss from Suns for Porzingis: report
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:26:16 AM)

    Phil Jackson and the Knicks targeted either Devin Booker or Marquese Chriss from the Suns in a potential deal.

  • [ESPN] Phil on KP offers: Will do what’s best for team
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:32:48 PM)

    Phil on KP offers: Will do what’s best for team

  • [ESPN] Vote: How do you see draft night playing out?
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 5:08:09 PM)

    Vote: How do you see draft night playing out?

  • [NYPost] Joel Embiid to Porzingis: You can miss exit meetings in Philly
    (Thursday, June 22, 2017 12:37:28 AM)

    Joel Embiid apparently heard Phil Jackson and the Knicks are listening to offers for Kristaps Porzingis, so he made his own personal pitch to the 7-foot-3 big man to join the 76ers. The 76ers 7-foot center took a dig at Phil Jackson in the process, tweeting: The tweet was in reference to Jackson bringing up…

  • [NYPost] Knicks eyeing point guard of the future with the No. 8 pick
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:35:37 PM)

    French point guard Frank Ntilikina met with team president Phil Jackson, general manager Steve Mills and coach Jeff Hornacek at a restaurant next to the Garden on Wednesday morning. Later, Ntilikina, an 18-year-old point guard fresh off a plane from Paris and the French league finals, attended a pre-draft press conference in Midtown, where he…

  • [NYPost] Phil confirms Porzingis trade talk in stunningly frank interview
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 5:48:22 PM)

    Phil Jackson confirmed he is listening to offers for Kristaps Porzingis and would pull the trigger if something is intriguing. Nevertheless, the Knicks president said nothing has piqued his interest yet, but he has to do “what’s good for the club.’’ A source told The Post on Wednesday the Knicks want a top-four pick and…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ long-shot new Porzingis: Phil Jackson meeting was ‘great’
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:03:51 PM)

    Arizona 7-footer Lauri Markkanen has never met Kristaps Porzingis. But the Finnish big man has texted him and spoken on the phone with him on multiple occasions. “We’ve talked about this process on text, phone, during the season,’’ the 20-year-old Markkanen said at Wednesday’s pre-draft press availability in Midtown. “Not in a while.’’ And certainly…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis talks Knicks frustration, newest ‘obsession’
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:25:43 AM)

    Memo to Phil Jackson: Kristaps Porzingis is getting stronger, putting on weight and “obsessed’’ with his offseason training. However, the 7-foot-3 Latvian for whom the Knicks president is listening to trade offers gave a lukewarm endorsement of the triangle offense, saying it hasn’t worked yet because the Knicks haven’t had the right players. In an…

  • [NYPost] NBA mock draft: Knicks splash, Celtics mystery waiting after 1-2
    (Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:09:09 AM)

    If honesty were indeed the policy employed by most folks who attempt to piece together mock drafts, a lot of picks past the top 10 merely would be listed as NBC: No (Bleeping) Clue. But here is one stab, based on talks with executives, scouts, writers and bartenders across the country, at what may happen…

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    411 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.22)

    1. KnickfaninNJ

      Yes, and at least this quote from Rosen has the ring of truth:

      In my nearly 40-year friendship with Jackson, the only thing I know for sure is that it’s impossible to know for sure what he might do in any given situation.

    2. Brian Cronin

      That’s pretty funny. I think Jackson is a shitty GM and all, but I legitimately don’t think he’s that petty.

    3. thenoblefacehumper

      Normally I’d be excited about tonight. Now I’m just filled with dread because I’m positive we’re going to either make a shitty pick or make a shitty trade, or most likely, do both.

    4. Totes McGoats

      Suppose Phil throws everyone off abd drafts Collins at 8? What happens with Willy? And who would be the better fit at C, Collins or KP? I am fully in the “KP needs to be at the 5” camp, so this would not be good IMO. Not saying Collins isn’t good. He’s big, fairly mobile, and skilled- plus he’s 19 with great per 36 numbers. If Phil were to offer up Willy for a pick, what could we realistically get in return?

    5. Brian Cronin

      This reminds me of children awake early on Xmas morning.

      Awaiting the arrival of Krampus.

    6. mase

      @3
      I agree.

      Because Shaq telling Jax not to trade KP after missing an exit meeting is foreshadowing.

    7. MSA

      I love KP but we gotta admit that he is kinda overrated around the league.

      Would Denver bite a KP for Jokic straight up?

      If that happens I would be the first to say farewell to KP.

    8. Brian Cronin

      love KP but we gotta admit that he is kinda overrated around the league.

      Would Denver bite a KP for Jokic straight up?

      If that happens I would be the first to say farewell to KP.

      The Suns won’t trade Devin Booker and the #4 for Porzingis, so he can’t be that overrated. ;)

      And no, Denver would not do that deal.

    9. MSA

      The Suns won’t trade Devin Booker and the #4 for Porzingis, so he can’t be that overrated. ;)

      Well, Booker just scored 70 points when he was still 19yo. Those idiots think that he is the second coming of Kobe Bryant or something so I’m not really surprised that they didn’t accept it.

      And no, Denver would not do that deal.

      :(

    10. english_knick

      Rosen’s article is is the low point in a low few days. Maybe you can forgive taking calls on your assets in case you get a godfather offer. Maybe you can even forgive jax’s efforts to explain this – at least some of what he said sort of made sense.

      But outright trashing your best asset via a buddy in the media, AND calling him injury-prone – so driving DOWN his value – is the dumbest f’ing move I’ve ever seen. I’m now certain we’re trading him for Josh Jackson and Dragan Bender.

      Jesus, I’ve been looking forward to the draft since the last few days of the season and all we get is this boatload of crap.

      Dolan should fire Jac right now, today, and let Gaines handle the draft.

    11. Z-man

      Not so sure I would call Devin Booker overrated. He’s 21 years old (younger than many players in this draft) and has steadily developed in his 2 NBA years. He played in 78 games last year, showing some durability. After the all-star break he averaged 24pts, 4 rebs and 4 assts in 36 mpg on a terrible team. He’s also 6’6″, smart, grounded and reasonably athletic. I don’t see or hear anyone calling him a superstar, so don’t get how he is overrated for his age, profile and performance. I think he’s he’s a very promising young player…not as promising as Porzingis, but not overrated.

    12. Brian Cronin

      But outright trashing your best asset via a buddy in the media, AND calling him injury-prone – so driving DOWN his value – is the dumbest f’ing move I’ve ever seen. I’m now certain we’re trading him for Josh Jackson and Dragan Bender.

      The injury-prone thing – hol-e-shit, right? Jackson just signed Joakim Noah to a four-year deal for $72 million in his age 31 season, but he simply has to get rid of Porzingis because he’s too injury prone! Can’t have that on the Knicks, no sir!

    13. KnicksFanInVA

      I cant believe I am saying this, but I almost hope that Dolan himself handles draft night instead of Phil.

    14. King Induction

      But outright trashing your best asset via a buddy in the media, AND calling him injury-prone – so driving DOWN his value – is the dumbest f’ing move I’ve ever seen.

      Phil used to do this to his players a lot when he was a coach, and it made some sense. But as a GM it’s Inexplicable. I was a bit in his camp because he didn’t trade our picks and intentional or not we’re in a rebuild, but if he tries to trade KP now after lowering his value he should be prevented from doing so and fired.
      And if he trades him to the Lakers for peanuts it’s conspiracy theory time.

    15. MSA

      has steadily developed in his 2 NBA years

      I wouldn’t say that Booker has no chance of being a good player the same way that I think is too early to say that Russell is a bust. And he’s still 20 not 21.

      I don’t know about steadily development tho. His WS/48 regressed to .035 from .043, his TS% is the same at .530 and WP, BPM and VORP are all in negative territory.

      The only thing that he really “improved” is that he is scoring now 22 PPG instead of 13.

    16. fmikieo

      The injury thing is pure nonsense. At the end of both seasons, the team opted to be overcautious and keep KP out of games eventhough he honestly could have played.

      As far as I’m concerned, KP was good for 70-75 games for both season. For now, I’m okay with that.

    17. #firePhilJackson

      two starters and a pick… of course you will listen. Melo ain’t leaving just let that one go

      KP still not answering his calls? gee it has gone to his head.. get Bledsoe or Knight and Len plus the pick

      what can Boston offer? pick plus Crowder and who else?

      don’t resign Rose, try unload Noah.. then have two picks in top ten

    18. Brian Cronin

      The only thing that he really “improved” is that he is scoring now 22 PPG instead of 13.

      That’s almost literally how the NBA awards the Most Improved Player award. “Oh, you got more shot attempts so your points per game went up? Here’s an award!”

      Last year’s winner did raise his TS% from .534 to .544, but he mainly improved his shot attempts from 6 a game to 18 a game, and voila, his game magically improved enough so as to win an award! :)

    19. Z-man

      I specifically pointed out Booker’s improvement after the all-star break. His points, rebounds and assists all went up during that stretch.

      If he had stayed in college and was in this draft, where would he go? I mean, Malik Monk is making hay on a 47 point game, and Booker dropped 70 in an NBA game.

      The point is, I don’t think he’s overrated because I don’t hear anyone saying that he’s all that great. If anyone is being overrated based solely on his statistical profile, it’s Porzingis. On paper, Booker + #4 is not a bad return for a guy who few here wanted at #4 in 2015, and who has produced at an average NBA level. I wouldn’t do that trade, but it’s not batshit crazy.

    20. Brian Cronin

      Wow this is what you call rebuild.
      Knicks gets- Aldrich, Cowder, Dieng, Smart, pick 3 and 7 2017, and 2018 protected pick from lakers.
      Boston gets- KP, Paul pierce
      LA clippers- Melo, Boston 2018 first
      Timberwolves- D Andre Jordan

      That really is a clever trade idea.

    21. #firePhilJackson

      KP has better numbers so increases trade value but not character.. I recently changed job but I still did an exit meeting without being a dick

    22. Brian Cronin

      I wouldn’t do that trade, but it’s not batshit crazy.

      You wouldn’t do the trade because it is not a good enough offer (and you’d be correct), and yet the other team was the one who turned it down. And why? Because they are overrating the value of Devin Booker.

    23. Z-man

      But it’s not just Devin Booker, it is also a top-4 pick in a loaded draft. In other words, it’s potentially Booker and Isaac (my pick), Fox, or Jackson. And again, Booker has been a proficient NBA starter at age 19-20.

    24. #firePhilJackson

      Wow this is what you call rebuild.
      Knicks gets- Aldrich, Cowder, Dieng, Smart, pick 3 and 7 2017, and 2018 protected pick from lakers.
      Boston gets- KP, Paul pierce
      LA clippers- Melo, Boston 2018 first
      Timberwolves- D Andre Jordan

      why would Minny want Jordan? they should get Noah

    25. Z-man

      There is no way the Celts give up Smart, Crowder, the #3 pick plus other picks for Porzingis.

    26. wetbandit

      – Phil’s hypocrisy is astounding- KP is now injury-prone but Noah was signed for a huge contract; KP can be traded ‘for the future’ but is 21;

      – Per Rosen, what Phil is asking for- “two or three starters, which would probably include an all-star-caliber player, plus at least a No. 1 draft pick” may be good, but I don’t think we should feel confident in who Phil thinks is a good player

      – I think all this is stupid, and Phil won’t trade KP- he did the same thing to Kobe, etc– it’s his own misguided and outdated way of motivating young players. Who knows, maybe KP is going to take out his frustrations in working out harder. Whatever. It’s clear he thinks highly of KP and would only trade him for a song.

      – I have heartburn from all this and the nonnecessity of it all.

      – THE WORST PART: Rosen writes that KP wants to play for a winner (and hopes that would be NY), so why not trade him now because we won’t be….. COME ON!!!

    27. Brian Cronin

      Rosen also was working the whole “He was going to leave when he’s a free agent anyways!” angle already. Gotta get your pre-arguments going!

    28. danvt

      I think everyone’s got to chill just a little. Phil has no Phil-ter but he’s not Isiah. His leaks don’t help because they undervalue his players but he hasn’t traded multiple picks for obvious busts like Eddy Curry.

      The Melo max was his worst mistake. The Noah signing probably the second worst. If you look at the Rose one year flyer plus the Noah contract as a trade for J Grant and Rolo you could say he lost. I did like Rolo but Grant turns out to be not much. He did not distinguish himself in the playoffs once Rondo went out. Maybe Noah get’s healthy and plays decently in the rotation. I’m just asking what else has he done to confirm his status as worst GM in the league? Or similar to other Knick GMs. Did he orchestrate the original Melo debacle? Did he trade for Bargnani? Did he let Lin leave?

      I think he’s saying, if you want KP give us #3, BKLYN 2018 and take Melo otherwise click.

      Seriously, what am I missing? Booker and the #4 pick and I’m probably done but he hasn’t done that or anything like that in his Knick tenure.

    29. Philmelo

      I think everyone’s got to chill just a little

      So this. Woj sends out a tweet, Rosen writes a passive aggressive article and Phil’s comments get taken out of context – the next thing you know its full blown apocalyptic mode here.

    30. ptmilo

      Zach Lowe:

      To restate the obvious, players and agents increasingly look at the Knicks as a destination of absolute last resort.

    31. Brian Cronin

      Seriously, what am I missing? Booker and the #4 pick and I’m probably done but he hasn’t done that or anything like that in his Knick tenure.

      That’s literally what he just did, and it only didn’t happen because the other team said no.

    32. Philmelo

      That’s literally what he just did, and it only didn’t happen because the other team said no.

      Was this confirmed?

    33. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @41

      No this is an actually a time to freak out: because irrespective of what actually happens this destabilizes the organization and team and poisons our relationship with our franchise player all because PJ can’t keep his fucking mouth shut like any other GM in any professional sports league

    34. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Also Booker is a sub replacement level player and I wouldn’t trade for him if all it was required was a mid first

    35. wetbandit

      He may not be Isiah but he fucks things up his own way:

      – The one thing he set out to establish was a positive team culture. I think it’s the worst it’s been since Ewing was traded. Management and the top two players on the team actively dislike each other and are talking through the press at each other. It’s not good.

      – We are the laughingstock of the league, and thus, good free agents with other options will not come here. This may be a good thing because of our philosophy here, but it wasn’t meant to be, and will not always be the case.

      – We’ve overhauled the roster each offseason, and will do it again now, and likely again next year. It’s ridiculous, bad for development of young players, and is not building anything.

      – We’ve lost each trade and signing for a starter. And whoever was a good signing was either too old to matter long-term (Lee) or traded (Lopez).

      There’s nothing to be chill about. Literally the only good thing was KP and he’s managed to infect that too.

    36. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      You can say this is all overreaction but please for the love of god explain to me why he had to go on Al Trautwig and CONFIRM that they’ve been shopping him, or why he has to order Charley Rosen to take pot shots in the press in order to start justifying any and all trade scenarios

    37. Philmelo

      No this is an actually a time to freak out: because irrespective of what actually happens this destabilizes the organization and team and poisons our relationship with our franchise player all because PJ can’t keep his fucking mouth shut like any other GM in any professional sports league

      Yes, its all over. Phil listening to offers about KP and admitting to it is the point of no return that will ruin this franchise for a generation.

    38. Brian Cronin

      Was this confirmed?

      I mean, no one ever “confirms” any trade offer, right? It’s just whether the person doing the reporting of the offer is reliable, and the Phoenix reporter, John Gambadoro, who reported the offer (and the rejection of the offer) is well-regarded as far as getting accurate info from the Suns’ front office.

    39. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @50

      Well he’s already ruined his first five years and has failed literally every test of leadership and player evaluation that’s been thrown at him and now he’s showing that he can’t even handle a press conference–he’s literally constitutionally incapable of spouting cliches in order to protect the value and sentiment of his star players–now its likely that Melo is going to stay, and more likely than ever that Porzingis leaves via trade or FA. How is that good?

      He’s literally the Donald Trump of basketball–less murderous but just as much of a behind the times oaf

    40. Philmelo

      You can say this is all overreaction but please for the love of god explain to me why he had to go on Al Trautwig and CONFIRM that they’ve been shopping him, or why he has to order Charley Rosen to take pot shots in the press in order to start justifying any and all trade scenarios

      Did you actually watch the interview? He didn’t “confirm” they were shopping KP. He confirmed that they listened to offers. What happened is that NY and national sports media took Phil’s comments about doing “what is best for the team” and made it seem like he was the one calling GMs looking for a trade. The rest of this garbage is rumor and hearsay. But let’s not let the details get in the way of another freak out.

    41. ptmilo

      quiet prayer for draft day 2017.

      1. kp6 stays
      2. knicks add a 1st by either taking salary or trading lee/KOQ
      3. melo to the cavs rumors start immediately after billups hire is official
      4. knicks draft non-markkanen players

    42. Philmelo

      Well he’s already ruined his first five years and has failed literally every test of leadership and player evaluation that’s been thrown at him and now he’s showing that he can’t even handle a press conference–he’s literally constitutionally incapable of spouting cliches in order to protect the value and sentiment of his star players–now its likely that Melo is going to stay, and more likely than ever that Porzingis leaves via trade or FA. How is that good?

      I love it. Phil get’s crapped on for being too opaque one moment and then gets crapped on for being too transparent the next by the same critics. He went on air to clear the air about the rumors we were shopping him around, which he dispelled by saying the front office merely fielded calls. Of course, he should have predicted the media and their sheep would have found a way to make this attempt to clear the air into another confirmation about how KP won’t be a Knick come this Fall.

    43. thenoblefacehumper

      So this. Woj sends out a tweet, Rosen writes a passive aggressive article and Phil’s comments get taken out of context – the next thing you know its full blown apocalyptic mode here.

      Phil went on TV and confirmed they were taking calls on Porzingis, even though it doesn’t look like a deal will get done. What is out of context? What does he think he gains by doing this? It’s so obviously detrimental, and that’s true regardless of what happens with Porzingis. If he’s traded, we’re getting lowballed because everyone with half a brain can see that Phil is, for some dumb ass reason, eager to move him. If he stays, he’s pissed off because of this and everything else that has happened in the last few months.

      Where is the 5D chess? Using Occam’s Razor, we can determine that Phil Jackson is actually just a bumbling fucking moron.

    44. Philmelo

      I mean, no one ever “confirms” any trade offer, right? It’s just whether the person doing the reporting of the offer is reliable, and the Phoenix reporter, John Gambadoro, who reported the offer (and the rejection of the offer) is well-regarded as far as getting accurate info from the Suns’ front office.

      And the Suns front office is the beacon of truth. They don’t have any agenda in this. They will leak information to one of their media contacts with 100 percent factual accuracy and clarity. Jesus.

    45. thenoblefacehumper

      It’s amazing how Phil Jackson does all these completely benign things that no other GMs do

    46. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Conspiracy theory vs Occam’s Razor, round 5000

      Apparently conspiracy wins! Sources mean nothing!

    47. Brian Cronin

      And the Suns front office is the beacon of truth. They don’t have any agenda in this. They will leak information to one of their media contacts with 100 percent factual accuracy and clarity. Jesus.

      Woj is also reporting that the Knicks are contacting teams on Porzingis. Woj also reported that any Suns deal will not involve Booker (because, you know, the Suns turned down the offer of Booker and the #4 for Porzingis). So cue “Woj is right about everything…except this, because…reasons.”

    48. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Being a Knicks fan morally and physically requires one to be in a permanent state of panic. There is never not a time for us to panic about the org because their track record is literally the worst in all of pro sports since Dolan got to the helm

      This is the franchise that put a convicted sexual harasser who denies wrongdoing as the head of its WNBA team. Burn it to the fucking ground

    49. Philmelo

      Phil went on TV and confirmed they were taking calls on Porzingis, even though it doesn’t look like a deal will get done. What is out of context?

      LOL, read at this tweet.

      Phil Jackson has confirmed NYK is looking to trade Kristaps Porzingis.— NBA Central (@TheNBACentral) June 22, 2017

      You don’t think this is out of context? Anyone who actually saw the interview with a modicum of intelligence and impartiality knows full damn well Phil didn’t say this.

      What does he think he gains by doing this?

      He was clearly trying to clear the air. He should have known better with the pit of vipers reporting in the media and the sheep who follow them ready to distort his words. Mind you, this is just one tweet. There are many running with this bullshit meme now and judging by the reactions here people have bought into the lie which has become the truth (…hey, hey…Billy Jean).

    50. Frank O.

      Yesterday I was told here that I was overreacting to the news.
      Today, it’s actually confirmed, coupled with a hit piece by Rosen.

      At this point, here is what I feel:
      Even if Jackson makes a good trade, where we pick up picks and a genuine starter, that even leads them to being in the playoffs, I will be unhappy. I want to give a damn about the people on the team I root for. I would like to see KP become what he will in a Knicks uniform.
      I will forever wonder what might have happened if the Knicks did not trade Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, et al, for a guy like Melo. I loved watching those guys play and would have loved seeing them mature together in NYC. Gallo arguably has been a statistical equal over the past few years with Melo, setting aside Melo’s ridiculous usage, shooting as he was… and we know the team was gutted after the trade.
      I have no regrets from watching the Ewing years, despite them never winning a championship. Ewing was my guy as was the rest of that cast of characters and misfits. John Starks? I loved him being on our team, warts and all. Mark Jackson? Loved the guy. I gave a damn.

      I want to see what happens when KP and Willie play together, friends who get to figure out how to make their games complement.
      I am so frigging sick of 52 card pick up. We have a guy. He could be a star. He may be special.

      I’m sick of this team’s impatience.

    51. GoldClub

      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716975-a-strange-bird-only-one-knicks-exec-can-talk-sense-into-phil-jackson

      “Which is to say: Gaines’ handprints will be all over whatever decisions the Knicks make during Thursday night’s draft. Whether Jackson drafts French prospect Frank Ntilikina, who Gaines recently scouted in person, or trades Porzingis, a move that seems increasingly likely following his zany interview Wednesday night, the move will be made with Gaines’ blessing.”

      This calmed me down a bit. No idea if it is true, but let’s cling to this one until after the draft…

    52. Philmelo

      Apparently conspiracy wins! Sources mean nothing!

      LOL. You don’t need a conspiracy theory to be skeptical of hearsay unless its confirmed. In fact, that’s basic empirical fact. You confirm second-hand accounts, especially when a primary source (Phil Jackson himself) says 1.) the Knicks weren’t shopping KP and 2.) he’ll be back next year.

    53. d-mar

      quiet prayer for draft day 2017.

      1. kp6 stays
      2. knicks add a 1st by either taking salary or trading lee/KOQ
      3. melo to the cavs rumors start immediately after billups hire is official
      4. knicks draft non-markkanen players

      1000% to all 4. I would add:

      5. Isaac falls to us at #8
      6. We get Rubio

    54. thenoblefacehumper

      You don’t think this is out of context? Anyone who actually saw the interview with a modicum of intelligence and impartiality knows full damn well Phil didn’t say this.

      Except that Woj reported that the Knicks are calling teams. That’s what “looking to trade” looks like. That tweet is correct, Phil Jackson worded it slightly differently but the idea is the same.

      He was clearly trying to clear the air. He should have known better with the pit of vipers reporting in the media and the sheep who follow them ready to distort his words.

      It’s so sad that these days you can’t drive the NBA’s most valuable franchise into a brick wall without people criticizing you.

    55. Brian Cronin

      Yesterday I was told here that I was overreacting to the news.
      Today, it’s actually confirmed, coupled with a hit piece by Rosen.

      There’s still a good chance that the Knicks don’t get an offer that they like and KP stays. Honestly, I think it’s more likely than not that KP stays. I think that Jackson is shopping KP, but I think he’s shopping him for what Jackson believes is a big offer, so hopefully that big offer will be too much for the other teams (or perhaps he actually pulls off an offer so good that you should take it for KP. It’s possible).

    56. Philmelo

      Being a Knicks fan morally and physically requires one to be in a permanent state of panic.

      Or you can just try to be rational and not jump to conclusions until facts are in.

    57. Philmelo

      Except that Woj reported that the Knicks are calling teams.

      Where did Woj say this? It wasn’t in this article.

      It’s so sad that these days you can’t drive the NBA’s most valuable franchise into a brick wall without people criticizing you.

      So what did you want him to do? Not give an interview and have the rumor continue to swirl without clearing the air? Or did you just want him to deliver the first perfect interview where he says nothing the NYC/sports media can twist.

    58. danvt

      I will say this. I won’t be an apologist for any dumb moves. Kurylo, Jowles… these guys have been right more often then not. Ima roll with what they think. As a fan, I like to see what happens. Maybe Bargnani can attack those close outs better than Novak. Pathetic in retrospect but as a fan you’ve got to have hope. This time I’m gonna be a bit more circumspect. Nothing horrible has happened yet though (in 2017).

      Let’s hope Jonathan Isaac falls to us and go from there.

    59. TheOakmanCometh

      It’s just inexplicable that Phil thinks airing all his dirty laundry in public helps anything. Seriously, what is he hoping to gain?

      The fact that he keeps making this same mistake over and over again as everybody with eyes tells him he’s poisoning the well, it’s troubling not just for the present but the future. Why is his judgement so flawed? What does this say about his connection to basketball reality? When will it flare up again, and what will he damage next?

      It’s like watching an insane person drive toward a cliff in slow motion. “Don’t worry, he’ll swerve. He’s just messing with you. He’ll swerve. No one is that stupid. He has to, right? OH MY GOD HE’S NOT SWERVING!”

    60. alsep73

      or perhaps he actually pulls off an offer so good that you should take it for KP

      Brian, what to your mind would qualify? Forget pie in the sky stuff like “Porzingis for Durant and Curry.” How many draft picks, what caliber of player as centerpiece, etc.

    61. Philmelo

      Facebook Live (it is super annoying how much stuff they put up on Facebook Live).

      Where in this 50+minute interview can I see what Woj said?

    62. Brian Cronin

      Brian, what to your mind would qualify? Forget pie in the sky stuff like “Porzingis for Durant and Curry.” How many draft picks, what caliber of player as centerpiece, etc.

      Just sticking with the Suns – their pick this year, their pick next year, Bledsoe, Chriss and them taking Noah back with KP would be uninspiring, but probably worth it. And I’ve always been willing to do it for the two Celtic/Nets picks. #3 this year and a reasonable shot at a top #3 pick next year in a stacked front four? Plus the Knicks’ first rounder, which, having traded KP for two draft picks, would possibly also be a top 3 pick in a stacked front four? Wow. But the Celtics probably would never do that (even though it is a good deal for them, as well).

    63. stratomatic

      I think everything is being blown way out of proportion by the lunatics in the media and hyperactive Knicks fans.

      1. I thought Phil was honest and straight forward last night in discussing both Melo and KP.

      2. While the Rosen article may not have been in the best interests of the Knicks getting trade value for KP, as far as a I know, he is not employed by the Knicks. So it was perhaps the most honest even handed and balanced article on KP I’ve seen in print so far.

      3. At the end of the night I think massively most likely scenario is the Knicks have a young core of Porzingis, Hernangomez, Frank/Monk/Smith, and draft pick in the late lottery.

      4. If they don’t add that late lottery pick by using cap space to take on a bad contract, that will mean they think it’s very likely they will be able to sign someone in free agency of greater value.

      5. Courtney Lee is also in play to get a pick or Rubio, but I’ve been told by a journalist in Minny that a Rubio deal with NY is VERY unlikely.

    64. Frank O.

      PhilMelo,
      You’re shading things. You’re the spin doctor in the Capitol rotunda after the president’s state of the Union.
      Any reasonable person can see that Phil said he is taking calls. He is receptive to trades for KP, which has been the majority of the reports. It’s big news because the Knicks who have two good players are willing to consider trades for a guy the best players in the league refer to as a unicorn.
      Only a true partisan would see this as simply benign.
      You would have to ignore the fact that:
      – Phil has used Rosen to message.
      – KP and Phil had a major dispute after last season and KP has not tried to back off the dispute.
      – Phil, even by NBA standards, has a ginormous ego and knows he’s being called out by a kid.
      – Phil has to date a terrible record as a GM, largely, with a few gems like Willy and KP in the mix.

      Whether a trade goes through or not, he has shown a lack of commitment to KP and the kid may in fact come back this year not wanting to play for this ramshackle lot.

      There is little reason to have any confidence in Phil as a GM to date. Great coach. Arguably the best, but mediocre to bad GM.
      And everyone knows any deal the Knicks make is a desperate one.
      There’s an old axiom in the Middle East that goes like this:
      One side says, why should I negotiate? I am weak.
      The other side says, why should I negotiate? I am strong.

      The Knicks are weak.

    65. Frank

      He’s literally the Donald Trump of basketball–less murderous but just as much of a behind the times oaf

      The similarities are so spot-on it’s scary.

      1) old man in his 70s
      2) very successful at his previous career
      3) completely oblivious to the advantages he had that had a huge part in that success (Trump’s dad’s $ and influence, Phil had the best talent in the league)
      4) so sure that he’s so smart, but so insecure as to be unable to deal with smallest slight without wanting to burn the house down just to troll those who might challenge him

    66. Brian Cronin

      What does everyone think of Bender? I wasn’t a fan of him and he has a terrible rookie season, but he’s also super young. Who would you rather have – Bender or Chriss? Chriss played a lot better at the end of his rookie season.

    67. Frank

      The level of hate I have for Phil jackson right now is scary. I am usually a mellow person.

      The draft is supposed to be annual ritual of hope for all fans. Instead, I’ve been filled with dread for the last few days in spite of having a really good chance of drafting a really good player. All we have as Knicks fans is hope, and he is robbing us of it.

      I’ve had to deal with people with pretty serious anxiety issues — and not at all to minimize their daily struggle, but I sort of get in some way how they feel now. I wake up and the first thing I do is hope that nothing terrible has happened to our franchise. I check twitter obsessively to see if anything dumb has come out Phil’s mouth in the last 43 seconds. I literally have lost sleep over this. And worst – I don’t even have hope. It’s terrible.

    68. Hubert

      Man, I am going to sweat the next 24 hours.

      EDIT: actually, I’m going to sweat the next 7… then I’m going to drink.

    69. Brian Cronin

      While I don’t like that Phil is shopping KP, I also doubt that any of the teams in the top five will come up with a good enough package for the Knicks to actually close a deal. So I’m cautiously optimistic that the Knicks keep KP for at least another year.

    70. DS

      Ha! I remember Isiah/W. comparisons on this site. Looking forward to the Kamala Harris/Allan Houston comparisons.

      Phil indisputably knew how to coach. Trump’s business savvy is something that can be debated.

    71. DS

      David Aldridge, whose tone is usually pretty measured, tweets that Jax believes that KP would go #1 this year and #1 next year and would expect a return that reflected that.

    72. stratomatic

      He’s literally the Donald Trump of basketball–less murderous but just as much of a behind the times oaf

      And I’m sure both consider the media coverage to be equally biased, incompetent, and agenda driven.

    73. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      As someone with an anxiety disorder I can confirm that being a Knicks fan oftentimes feels very much like a low key anxiety attack

    74. thenoblefacehumper

      And I’m sure both consider the media coverage to be equally biased, incompetent, and agenda driven.

      …and whatever grievances either may have with the way the media has covered them, there can be no doubt that the coverage would be better if they didn’t, you know, suck.

    75. Frank

      And by the way Charley Rosen is the worst.

      To bring up the injury issue is just ridiculous, as others have pointed out.

      Joakim Noah has a big butt, but is injured every five seconds. That didn’t stop Phil from giving him a 4 year ridiculous contract.

      Derrick Rose is hurt every 5 seconds also, but he’s actually considering resigning him. Oh and by the way he missed a GAME without telling anyone, yet Phil isn’t blasting him in the media.

    76. DS

      Or maybe they’re working together?!?! The KP trade rumors could be just a smoke screen to get the the health bill through the Senate.

    77. Frank

      Re: who we hopefully pick at #8 —

      I strongly feel that the pick should be either Ntilikina or DSJ. I get that Monk has scoring explosions, but I can’t get past his frame, which doesn’t look like it will be able to put on a lot of weight, and the fact that AT BEST he might be an adequate 1 position defender in the NBA.

      DSJ can have similar scoring explosions, and has a better/more solid frame than Monk.

      I still think Ntilikina is the pick unless Dallas trades up past us, in which case either DSJ or Isaac might/should be there.

      I’ve avoided getting into theoretical trade considerations re: KP because it’s too depressing… but would anyone do something like this:

      Boston sends us #3 and their own top 22 protected 2018 first and Terry Rozier
      We send them #8 and our top something (5? 8?) protected 2018 first.

    78. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @96

      I’d accept nothing less in a KP trade than Boston’s #3, BK 2018, and one of Crowder or Brown for KP alone or KP and the 8 if I were really pushed

      Anything less than that is GM malpractice

    79. DRed

      Bender, Chriss & Booker were all fucking terrible last season. Phil should be fired for even speaking to Phoenix.

    80. Donnie Walsh

      Who would you rather have – Bender or Chriss? Chriss played a lot better at the end of his rookie season

      Chriss’s post-all star break performance, when his minutes bumped up from 17 to 27 a game, was very strong. His .580 TS% is better than anything KP has put together. And he’s 2 years younger.

      I’m not saying Phil should trade KP for Marq Chris’s straight up or anything, but there is a lot of upside to a potential Phoenix deal.

    81. DRed

      I have no evidence for any of this, but I blame Melo for poisoning Porzingis. Very much looking forward to two more seasons of Carmelo missing shots, not playing defense, and talking about winning.

    82. stratomatic

      …and whatever grievances either may have with the way the media has covered them, there can be no doubt that the coverage would be better if they didn’t, you know, suck.

      Out of respect for the board, I’ll refrain from demonstrating the incompetence and bias of the political media, but I have no problem defending Phil.

      I think given the hand Phil was given I would award him a B- so far. I wouldn’t have much of a problem defending most of what he has done (other than giving Noah 4 years) except that I think most people in the media don’t understand what he’s doing well enough to even have the conversation let alone come to the correct conclusion.

      To be clear, I don’t say that with any arrogance on my part. I say it as a put down against the media covering the Knicks and as a way of encouraging others to ignore them when it comes to the Knicks.

    83. djphan

      asb splits are very noisy because those games are filled with diluted rosters and tanking teams….

    84. heavencent35

      One thing Phil is good at is making a surprise decision. Which is something to be excited or afraid for. So what could be the weirdest thing he’ll do today.

    85. chrisconley

      Phil already won the day. Many on here two days ago said they’d be pissed if Phil didn’t land an extra first rd pick or if he drafted player X at 8. Now those same people will simply be happy if he doesn’t trade KP (which he won’t). He set the bar so low for fans with this latest drama that he’ll soar after picking Frank 8 and making no other deals.

    86. DS

      I have no evidence for any of this, but I blame Melo for poisoning Porzingis.

      Well, when Janis Porzingis says, “Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York…” I don’t think that you’re taking too much of a leap. While I do think it’s unfair to just blame ‘Melo, and not management, for low morale, I think everyone would be closer to being on the same page if ‘Melo were to leave.

      It’s funny, when Jax was coaching Rodman he had a rap for being able to handle “difficult” players.

    87. Totes McGoats

      The similarities are so spot-on it’s scary.

      1) old man in his 70s
      2) very successful at his previous career
      3) completely oblivious to the advantages he had that had a huge part in that success (Trump’s dad’s $ and influence, Phil had the best talent in the league)
      4) so sure that he’s so smart, but so insecure as to be unable to deal with smallest slight without wanting to burn the house down just to troll those who might challenge him

      This.

    88. thenamestsam

      Ramona Shelburne reporting the Spurs(!) have interest in Derrick Rose. What a topsy-turvy world we live in.

    89. heavencent35

      In other news, spurs is shopping Aldridge for top 10 pick. Just thinking that Dallas and Pistons are a good fit. Aldridge and Drummond could work it out in the east while Aldridge can duplicate Dirk Nowitzkis Defense.

    90. ess-dog

      Yeah, I don’t really see a straight up trade with Boston or Phoenix. Maybe Sacto, but that’s too low to get Jackson. In other words, I don’t think a KP trade will happen unless it’s pretty elaborate, and those trades tend to fall apart easily.

      That being said, if either Ball or Jackson drops, you’ have to think about a Stein/Labissere + #5 and #34 trade.

    91. swiftandabundant

      For a site that prides itself on rational discussion, the collective freak out the last 24 hours is amusing to read to say the least.

      Can we at least acknowledge the role Zinger himself has played in this situation?

      Before you tell me that the exit interview was optional (I know this), let me ask you this. If you were a relatively new hire at a company and that company had very high expectations for the year but then ended up having a disappointing year (lets say sales were way off and you were a new salesman)…and there was an optional interview that most employees did with the president where you could have a candid conversation about what you think needs to happen in the company to improve sales next year…and you blew off that meeting without telling anyone why you were skipping it. And lets say the your manager then reached out to you to see if everything was ok and you ignored his entreaties, do you think management and the president would be happy with you? Lets say you were brought on as a new salesman because of your potential and you had shown flashes of being very good but also had areas where you needed to improve your job…do you think management would be happy at you just ignoring them for weeks on end?

      I get that everyone here thinks Phil Jackson is the worst but can we at least acknowledge that KP has not acted in the most mature way? And please don’t give me the “he’s only 21” stuff. The biggest compliment KP has gotten for the most part is his attitude and character. This season was a huge disappointment for everyone. Even if the workplace environment is chaotic, how is he making it better by acting this way? This could all go away if he just picked up the phone and called Phil and said he was sorry.

    92. Sir Robin

      @104, chrisconley. I fear KP may be traded, but here’s hoping you are right, chris. Jackson has changed the entire narrative of the Knicks draft, possibly by using “fake news.”

    93. Sir Robin

      On top of all of this, I fear the young unicorn is being used as a pawn by not one, but two passive-aggressive individuals, Melo and Jackson.

    94. chrisk06811

      I think you guys are over reacting a bit. If Porzingis gets traded, our team looks like this:
      PG: Russell, with Lin backing him up and getting time together)
      SG: Kilpatrick, with Randy Foye
      Forwards: Lavert / Hollis-Jefferson, Quincy Acey, Buck Williams
      C: Timmy!!!
      Plus, 22nd and 27th pick.
      -“Where Brooklyn at?” Mos Def

    95. Brian Cronin

      It’s so fascinating how much drama can be caused just by a player dropping a single spot. Jackson was the consensus #3, but now that the Celtics appear to be going with Tatum over Jackson, teams are suddenly like, “Wha? Huh? He fell to #4? Let’s all try to trade for #4!!”

    96. Brian Cronin

      I think you guys are over reacting a bit. If Porzingis gets traded, our team looks like this:
      PG: Russell, with Lin backing him up and getting time together)
      SG: Kilpatrick, with Randy Foye
      Forwards: Lavert / Hollis-Jefferson, Quincy Acey, Buck Williams
      C: Timmy!!!
      Plus, 22nd and 27th pick.
      -“Where Brooklyn at?” Mos Def

      There’s no way that Lin doesn’t start with Russell.

      That said, come on, we’ve all seen much worse than this before from the Knicks. I rooted for Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, there’s no way I’m going to be moved off of the team for this (especially since I bet KP doesn’t even get dealt).

    97. stratomatic

      @110

      +1

      Jackson would be better off if he didn’t call his players out publicly the way he did as a coach, but this was all triggered by an immature 21 year having a tantrum instead of going to his boss and having a private discussion about what was bothering him. That kind of thing gives the vermin in the media (all of which hate the Knicks and are looking to tear Jackson down so he can’t do his job) all the ammunition they need to try to blow the story up and create chaos in the minds of the fans where very little actually exists. They are TRYING to get Jackson fired.

      They ran with the trade speculation story when really all that has happened so far is that Jackson has fielded calls inquiring about what it would take to get KP in a trade. Taking those calls is his responsibility. To not take them would be ignoring his responsibility to the organization. You never know when someone may make an offer that is clearly a better value than KP.

    98. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      We finally have high draft picks and some of you are acting like hysterical high school girls who got stood up on prom night. Breathe!

    99. ess-dog

      2017 Knicks starting lineup prediction:

      Pg: Rubio
      Sg: Holiday (?)
      Sf: Melo
      Pf: Porzingis
      C: O’Quinn

      Ntilikina off the bench.

    100. alsep73

      I rooted for Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, there’s no way I’m going to be moved off of the team for this (especially since I bet KP doesn’t even get dealt).

      This feels exponentially worse, Brian. The picks we gave up for Curry were disastrous, but we didn’t know who they were going to be when we made the deal, and we never had them on the team (at least not until Noah was old and injured enough to become a True Knick). KP has been here for two years, has been virtually everything we could have hoped for, and he hasn’t even come close to reaching his full potential yet. To trade him because Phil’s ego was bruised over the exit interview thing would feel even worse than the Ewing trade, because as dumb as that was from a cap management standpoint, at least Ewing’s usefulness as a player was nearing an end.

      Who buys a winning lottery ticket and then uses all the money to buy more tickets?

    101. Accidentank 2017

      You guys do realize that Shaquille O’Neal also skipped an exit meeting on Phil in 2003, right? Phil is flat out lying when he says he’s never had another player skip an exit meeting on him.

      Derrick Rose SKIPPED A FUCKING GAME and nobody bats an eye. If Phil Jackson had the stones to cut Derrick Rose or levy a suspension on him, maybe KP wouldn’t have skipped the meeting. Everything that happened at MSG last season was a joke. KP knew the problem was defense and he knew the Knicks couldn’t continue to win based off of talent alone. You know what Phil Jackson did? “Let’s promote Kurt Rambis to triangle and coach the defense because he’s so smart.” What a joke.

      KP and Phil have been in contact with each other and know where each other stand. Just because they haven’t spoken directly doesn’t mean they haven’t spoken. Phil Jackson better not make any KP trades. I look forward to the Knicks having a fruitful draft night and bringing in another 1st round pick. But dammit if they trade KP, I will be very very hurt.

    102. Frank

      RE: KP and the exit meeting.

      I do think it was wrong to skip the exit meeting. It’s not something that would be tolerated in most walks of life, and probably should not be glossed over in the NBA either. I solidly believe that KP skipped that meeting not because he was just a frustrated 21 year old, but because he was sending a message to Dolan — literally going over the POBO’s head to the POBO’s boss. And so I don’t blame Phil for being upset / angry about this — not just because it was KP’s responsibility to go to the meeting but because I think it’s a not-so-subtle attempt by KP to get Phil fired.

      That said – Phil should have the introspective ability to understand why KP did that. He should also, as the guy 50 years KP’s senior, be able to be the adult in the room. Fucking get KP on the phone or send Steve Mills to Latvia if your hips are too creaky to go on an international flight. Just sit down and clear the air, get a fresh beginning.

      And yes – I think the media IS part of the problem here. Like I wrote yesterday, I solidly believe Woj is carrying water for Melo himself or at least Melo’s circle. The power struggle at MSG is still going on, and Melo is still trying to win.

      Re: the trade possibility I suggested above (Boston sends us #3 and their own top 22 protected 2018 first and Terry Rozier. We send them #8 and our top something (5? 8?) protected 2018 first.) — this is NOT a KP trade. This is simply an attempt to get #3 if we really think Josh Jackson is the guy. I can’t bring myself to seriously consider KP trades at this point, so I won’t.

    103. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Hey, it’s draft day and we actually have draft picks! How did that happen?

    104. jk_in_the_park

      @110 & @116

      +1

      Plus I thought reports said KP has ignored Hornacek’s texts.

      Bottom line: If the boss makes clear you have annoyed him. It’s on you to contact the boss. (Even if the boss is not that good a boss).

      And if KP feels justified in skipping the exit meeting, it’s on him to explain why … to his boss.

    105. Frank

      by the way if Phil and co. want Malik Monk, they should trade down and pick up some assets. Especially if somehow Fox goes before Sac’s pick and Sac ends up having to pick a wing at #5, We should trade #8 for #10 plus at least a couple 2nd round picks (Sac has #34 this year, maybe get that pick and another in 2018). Then Sac could pick Dennis Smith at 8, Dallas would pick Ntilikina at 9, and we could get Monk at 10. I’d rather have either Smith/Ntilikina than Monk, but that’s how I would do it if Monk is who the FO decides they want.

    106. Farfa

      Reub, I get your schtick and whatever, but this is not the day to troll this board with sugary fake optimism.

      I can see KP getting traded for a veteran and a low first round pick, and us picking Markkanen with the #8. Funny thing is I dusted off my KP6 t-shirt I bought more than a year ago just today. Free to think I jinxed it.

    107. Farfa

      Anyway I’m not that much of a fan of KP (while he’s really exciting, I just don’t see him ever making that superstar leap; I guess his rebounding will be weak throughout his career and I’m worried about his once-apparently stellar QI), so I’m not against trading him. I just don’t trust Phil a bit in trading situations.

    108. Sir Robin

      @119, alsep73. “Who buys a winning lottery ticket and then uses all the money to buy more tickets?” 100%.
      @120 Accidentank. More proof that Phil was a passive-aggressive bully as a coach, picking on weak sisters like Pippen or bench players, never taking on his meal tickets, Jordan and then Shaq and Kobe.

    109. stratomatic

      You guys do realize that Shaquille O’Neal also skipped an exit meeting on Phil in 2003, right? Phil is flat out lying when he says he’s never had another player skip an exit meeting on him.

      From what I gather, Phil was already on his way out as coach and Shaq cancelled it. He didn’t just fly off to Latvia and not say a thing.

    110. bobneptune

      @120 Accidentank. More proof that Phil was a passive-aggressive bully as a coach, picking on weak sisters like Pippen or bench players, never taking on his meal tickets, Jordan and then Shaq and Kobe.

      Yeah…. his methods as a coach certainly under performed.

    111. Brian Cronin

      This feels exponentially worse, Brian. The picks we gave up for Curry were disastrous, but we didn’t know who they were going to be when we made the deal, and we never had them on the team (at least not until Noah was old and injured enough to become a True Knick). KP has been here for two years, has been virtually everything we could have hoped for, and he hasn’t even come close to reaching his full potential yet. To trade him because Phil’s ego was bruised over the exit interview thing would feel even worse than the Ewing trade, because as dumb as that was from a cap management standpoint, at least Ewing’s usefulness as a player was nearing an end.

      Who buys a winning lottery ticket and then uses all the money to buy more tickets?

      Don’t get me wrong, there isn’t much of a future for the franchise until Jackson retires, so that sucks, I agree, but there’s more of a light at the end of the tunnel than there was in, say, 2007, when they were capped out, had no picks and very few good players. Even if they trade KP, it’ll be for guys that we’ll probably like watching in their own right. I agree that I hope that they don’t do it (and part of my optimism about this is that I don’t think they will ultimately do it), but they’re the Knicks, when are we really ever going to give up on them? I don’t see myself ever doing so and I suspect that you’re stuck with them, as well.

    112. stratomatic

      Derrick Rose SKIPPED A FUCKING GAME and nobody bats an eye.

      I have absolutely no proof of this, but I suspect that Derrick was given a pass because he was having mental health issues and not simply being irresponsible without just cause.

    113. Philmelo

      You guys do realize that Shaquille O’Neal also skipped an exit meeting on Phil in 2003, right?

      Shaq had accomplished something by that time in his career. He’d led the Lakers to multiple titles, won in this league for years and had already defined himself as one of the greatest bigmen ever to lace on a pair of basketball sneakers.

      Derrick Rose SKIPPED A FUCKING GAME and nobody bats an eye.

      We tried to trade Derrick Rose and he probably won’t be coming back.

      My own take on this issue is that both are at major fault. KP is throwing around leverage he doesn’t have since he’s earned nothing yet in his young NBA career. Phil, for his part, has no right to complain about unprofessional behavior from his players when he chooses to play media games with them. Its hypocritical for him to throw those stones when professionalism in any organization begins from the top-down and he’s been anything but.

    114. Sir Robin

      @130. His coaching has little to do with his function as President, and as JVG has always said, Phil always had the best players. As president, he should try some new tactics.

    115. Frank

      I have absolutely no proof of this, but I suspect that Derrick was given a pass because he was having mental health issues and not simply being irresponsible without just cause.

      Even if that’s not true, he should have been suspended a game or two (even with pay if necessary) — for the public it would show that going AWOL is not allowed without some punishment. And for Rose it would be to take a break and get his issues at least partially dealt with. To have him go right back into the starting lineup was IMHO inexcusable.

    116. swiftandabundant

      I still think Phil is about to pull some shit that is going to surprise all of us. most likely NOT involving KP. This has been his MO (for better or worse) his entire tenure here.

      No one saw the Chandler trade coming. No one saw the Hardaway for a first round pick coming. No one thought he’d pick KP (or at least it was a risky enough bet at the time that it surprised a lot of people) and no one saw the Rose/Rolo trade/Noah signing coming.

      I’m not saying this is all smokescreen or 3 dimensional chess, but I’m just saying there could be some deal out there that we don’t see at all right now and when/if it happens it will be completely out of the dark.

    117. ClashFan

      While it could be true that Melo has “poisoned” KP, we might not want to forget that KP’s 34 year old brother Janis (who KP deeply admires) pretty much manages him, IIRC. He also made the snarky “Despite how the Knicks treat their players…” remark, which really can only be a reference to the Melo situation.

      So, yeah, I do wonder if KP is being badly advised by his brother in all this. There are some minor red flags going up about KP, but this is still not enough to label him a diva and trade him away. So, I hope that’s not Phil’s thinking, but who knows.

      I wish Phil would shut up, but he only made one remark yesterday that really bothered me. The overconfident “We know what we’re doing” seems to show no self-awareness of the mistakes that he’s made in his first 3 years. I’m hoping that he’s learned from his mistakes, but that remark makes me wonder.

      If KP does get traded, I hope it is for at least 3 really good pieces. Boston would have to pony up this year’s #3, next year’s Brooklyn pick, and one good young player for a chance. Even then, I don’t know if I would pull the trigger. Because Boston.

    118. Hubert

      While I don’t like that Phil is shopping KP, I also doubt that any of the teams in the top five will come up with a good enough package for the Knicks to actually close a deal. So I’m cautiously optimistic that the Knicks keep KP for at least another year.

      My fear is that he’s decided this has to be done and he’ll take the best deal available. A little unfounded, but not hard to imagine.

    119. Frank

      KP is throwing around leverage he doesn’t have since he’s earned nothing yet in his young NBA career

      With any normal owner, KP’s gambit may have worked. Dolan is not normal. This is a guy who, out of spite, let Jeremy Lin walk because he felt like Lin wasn’t grateful enough.

    120. swiftandabundant

      I agree Phil should be the adult in the room but if Hornaceck then tried to reach out to him and he ignored that, then isn’t it on KP to at least respond to Phil or Hornaceck? I mean, its kind of crazy, right? And he gets a complete pass for this. Lets say it gets Phil fired. Do you want him to do this with the next GM if he disagrees with him?

      I just don’t think he’s earned the right to do that yet. I would say almost all players do not have the right to pull that kind of leverage. But then again, I’m not a millennial, so I believe you should always respect your boss even if you disagree with them.

    121. Philmelo

      With any normal owner, KP’s gambit may have worked. Dolan is not normal. This is a guy who, out of spite, let Jeremy Lin walk because he felt like Lin wasn’t grateful enough.

      I doubt NBA owners would allow a 2nd year player to exercise power over its FO without having won an all-star appearance and made the playoffs.

    122. Brian Cronin

      I still think Phil is about to pull some shit that is going to surprise all of us. most likely NOT involving KP. This has been his MO (for better or worse) his entire tenure here.

      No one saw the Chandler trade coming. No one saw the Hardaway for a first round pick coming. No one thought he’d pick KP (or at least it was a risky enough bet at the time that it surprised a lot of people) and no one saw the Rose/Rolo trade/Noah signing coming.

      I’m not saying this is all smokescreen or 3 dimensional chess, but I’m just saying there could be some deal out there that we don’t see at all right now and when/if it happens it will be completely out of the dark.

      Jackson’s “man of mystery” stuff has been way overblown. Have there been moves (like the THJ trade) that came out of nowhere? Sure, but every team has moves like that (like the Charlotte Dwight Howard trade). The majority of Jackson’s moves, though, were well covered before they happened. Noah was discussed as a target for the Knicks for months ahead of time. People discuss stuff and thus most of this stuff gets leaked (mostly to Woj).

    123. Frank

      I doubt NBA owners would allow a 2nd year player to exercise power over its FO without having won an all-star appearance and made the playoffs.

      But remember at the time of the skipped exit meeting, Dolan had not yet picked up the option on Phil’s last two years. I think it was a daring but semi-rational gambit to try and get Dolan to decline the option.

      Very curious to see what KP has to say on E:60 sunday morning. He could very well be an ex-Knick by then. SMH.

    124. GoldClub

      On top of all of this, I fear the young unicorn is being used as a pawn by not one, but two passive-aggressive individuals, Melo and Jackson.

      This is so sad and so true.

    125. DRed

      Look I don’t blame any player on the Knicks for being frustrated with Phil’s shitty meddling. Triangle, no triangle, triangle, no triangle, triangle, undermining coaches by forcing them to use his idiot friend Rambis-it’s got to be an irritating work environment, and that’s without considering MSG’s obsessive media control. I was always a bit concerned about appointing a guy with no FO experience, but I hoped Phil would at least bring some stability to the Knicks and instead it’s just the same old circus.

    126. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Just absurd how people routinely take the side of lazy and ineffective management over the people who literally create the value in sports

      Workers owe nothing–literally nothing–to management. KPs entirely in the right.

    127. english_knick

      From a different angle – if Ainge hasn’t offered #3, either the nets 2018 or the lakers/sac pick he just acquired, and either smart or brown, he’s not as smart as everyone thinks. Porzongis is the perfect get for them and he needs to shed $ to get to a max slot now the cap is down.

      And if he has offered it and Phil rejected it, the stories about him holding out for a massive offer are true and we can probably rest easy…

      Also – id rather have Bledsoe than Rubio, and the suns seem to want rid… aside from all the KP nonsense would be great to see us swing a deal for him.

    128. ClashFan

      @147
      Agreed. I never liked Phil, but when he was hired I was hopeful about his claim that they’d improve the culture on the team. All the media stuff I don’t care about and is way overrated (but he should just be a fortress of silence…screw the media).

      However, the personnel moves like giving a ball-hogging, self-centered, iso-crazy high usage scorer was NOT a move to start that “culture” process. Then, last year, he trades for ball-hogging, self-centered Derrick Rose. Two lousy moves. Noah is an okay guy, but not for 4 years.

    129. Philmelo

      Workers owe nothing–literally nothing–to management. KPs entirely in the right.

      By equal and converse application of this logic doesn’t management, in turn, owe nothing to its players? If so, then it also excuses Phil’s behavior. I am personally of the opinion that there should be a reciprocity in these relationships. Honesty, privacy, and professionalism should be the minimum both sides should expect from the other.

    130. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      The idea is that critiques about KP being a diva or a bad team player because he skipped a meeting are absurd because it relies on the notion that management and workers interests are at all aligned–they are not. Especially when management is as flagrantly incompetent as our current POBO is. urging cooperation and fraternity is just a cynical ploy to excuse bad management in this case.

      My whole point is that it’s not a matter of what one worker “owes” to another–my point is that Phil is an incompetent jackass and workers throwing their weight around to depose incompetent jackasses should be more the norm than it currently is.

      It’s not about duty, but exercise of power. And whenever phil exercises his power, he makes the organization categorically worse off. I want him gone, by any means necessary.

    131. Philmelo

      The idea is that critiques about KP being a diva or a bad team player because he skipped a meeting is absurd because it relies on the notion that management and workers interests are at all aligned–they are not.

      They aren’t? I thought both are interested in winning?

    132. Hubert

      It’s entirely possible the Knicks front office is effectively multi tasking, but I wonder how many real opportunities to improve the team have been missed while we’re wasting time with this self-created soap opera. Did we miss out on Russell because we were too busy shopping Porzingis around?

    133. Philmelo

      I want him gone, by any means necessary.

      The funny part about this quote is that it sounds a lot like Phil’s rationale for how he’s treated Melo the past year – resorting to every underhanded abuse of his power to unprofessionally dispatch of a hated, underperforming player. And to that, I would say its wrong for anyone to behave that way towards their player just like its wrong for a player to behave that way with its FO.

    134. jk_in_the_park

      @148 — Well your belief is definitely held some players. Melo and KP have probably had many conversations about how they would win a championship easily if only “their staff” (PJ) would surround them with the right players. And no doubt PJ spends hours philosophizing about how good “his” team would be if players just did what he asks. For now, Dolan has taken the side of management.

      @145 — I didn’t know that was the timing. Interesting point.

      @146 — yup. that’s the core of it all.

    135. kevin5318

      On a more positive note.

      @IanBegley

      Ian Begley Retweeted Michael Scotto
      On this front, several people have said NYK is interested in Villanova’s Josh Hart, whom they may need to move up to select:

      @Michael Scotto

      Knicks are looking to package the No. 44 and 58 picks to move up in the second round of the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.

    136. Frank

      For all the craziness, Phil and co. can still come out of today doing really well by NOT trading KP, drafting DSJ or Ntilikina, eating a Portland contract and drafting Justin Jackson or someone like that, and making some solid 2nd rounders. Totally within the ream of possibility.

    137. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @159

      This is literally all I’m hoping for. Please, Phil. Be mediocre, not incompetent–this is the one day a year where your GM track record breaks positively

    138. TheOakmanCometh

      In a conflict, one side being wrong doesn’t make the other side right. Porzingis was unprofessional to skip the exit meeting. He shouldn’t have done it. That doesn’t mean Phil is in any way right in how he’s responded.

      Phil is a 70-year old man with five decades of experience in this industry, who is being paid huge sums of money to make sound decisions. You cannot justify his actions as an appropriate response to the mildly unprofessional action of a 21-year old.

      Porzingis is good at his job and likely to get better. Phil is very bad at his job and shows no signs of improvement, to put it mildly. Hmmm, which one should we keep around? Such a tough decision….

    139. Philmelo

      In a conflict, one side being wrong doesn’t make the other side right. Porzingis was unprofessional to skip the exit meeting. He shouldn’t have done it. That doesn’t mean Phil is in any way right in how he’s responded.

      Bingo. Fans tend to see disputes in zero-sum terms. It doesn’t work that way.

    140. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Get me one of Jawun Evans, Thornwell, and Hart along with one of Justin Jackson, Anunoby, and Kennard and whatever the #8 pick will be and I’ll practice selective amnesia about the preceding 24 hours as long as Phil doesn’t trade KP

    141. Frank

      From Scott Howard-Cooper’s twitter:

      I asked Ntilikina if the #Knicks are his No. 1 choice for a landing spot. “No. 1 choice, I don’t know. But it would be in the lead.”

      I think he’s the pick. (if still there)

    142. Brian Cronin

      For all the craziness, Phil and co. can still come out of today doing really well by NOT trading KP, drafting DSJ or Ntilikina, eating a Portland contract and drafting Justin Jackson or someone like that, and making some solid 2nd rounders. Totally within the ream of possibility.

      That’s certainly what I’m hoping for!

    143. Ben R

      I am firmly on the side of the workers vs the management. It is the workers duty even risking termination to stand up against bad treatment by management. Only by more rebellion by workers can they ever wretch any power from those in charge.

      It is KP’s job to play basketball and constantly work at his game. He has by all accounts done this completely. The meeting he skipped was optional, which is why no fine, and now it is the offseason so communication is also optional. While freezing out the Knicks and skipping the meeting might have been unwise it is by no means wrong. He is not breaching his contract in any way. He owes nothing to Phil or the Knicks management. They have been nothing but incompetent and underhanded since he arrived in NY.

    144. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      The fact that we’re debating this is a sign that half of you have been gaslighted by Phil Jackson.

    145. Frank

      I’d laugh if it wasn’t so sad.

      From Steve Popper:

      Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout

    146. stratomatic

      Workers owe nothing–literally nothing–to management. KPs entirely in the right.

      I’ll be sure to tell that to my kids when I blow off my 5:00 meeting this afternoon because I want to watch the draft and I get fired.

      Porzingis is a pinhead.

      He’s a talented pinhead.

      He’s an immature pinhead.

      He’s a misguided pinhead.

      But he’s our pinhead and I hope he’ll grow up eventually.

    147. Mike Kurylo Post author

      @73 your check is in the mail.

      I recently took the family to Disney, and every employee asked us about the new Avatar ride. Everyone was talking about it and many of the employees hadn’t gone on it. The few that did said it was the best ride at Disney, which is high praise.

      So we went to the park and the line was a 5 hour wait. We decided to skip it for now and did some other things. Midday the skies open up & it pours. We head over to that side of the park, get on line and the wait was maybe an hour.

      We get on this ride and it’s a VR ride where you are flying on whatever that dinosaur like thing is called. Oh, important to the tale, yours truly hates heights and flying with a passion. The ride starts and for the duration my mouth goes on a Tourrette’s stream of thoughts on my true feelings at that moment which would have made a Deadwood character blush.

      I expect watching the Knicks front office this summer to be the same experience for me.

    148. mase

      The spurs are too smart… pau gasol opts out giving them cap relief to persue cp3. Now they are going to dump alderidge and draft Josh Jackson or Isaac. Why aren’t we spurs fans!?!

    149. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      Where’s your glass-half-full attitude, Frank? This is the Knicks! We’re winners!

      He was just trying to get a quick power nap in before the real prospects were working out. Or he was pretending to fall asleep to make the player try harder, to see how he’d react to a perceived slight. Or he was checking his phone, but the angle made it look like his eyes were closed, a la Brian Windhorst (who definitely looks like an apnea/narcolepsy guy, and definitely dozed off on-air).

    150. Frank

      How could it possibly be only 1:24PM? I’ve been stressing about this for at least 14 hours since i woke up this morning.

    151. Frank

      Where’s your glass-half-full attitude, Frank? This is the Knicks! We’re winners!

      He was just trying to get a quick power nap in before the real prospects were working out. Or he was pretending to fall asleep to make the player try harder, to see how he’d react to a perceived slight. Or he was checking his phone, but the angle made it look like his eyes were closed, a la Brian Windhorst (who definitely looks like an apnea/narcolepsy guy, and definitely dozed off on-air).

      RIP Team Optimism
      Signed, prior Captain of Team Optimism

    152. chrisk06811

      come on, we’ve all seen much worse than this before from the Knicks. I rooted for Steve Francis and Eddy Curry, there’s no way I’m going to be moved off of the team for this (especially since I bet KP doesn’t even get dealt).

      I almost walked away once, when Marv Albert was biting people. Dealing KP for what I am guessing will be not enough, would be worse than that. You know….if we had a thought of dealing him, we should have leaked it out before Bos traded the 1 pick.

    153. stratomatic

      Sources tell me Phil had a meeting with Prokhorov recently, has business interests in Russia, and has been compromised. Looks for KP to be traded to the Net shortly.

    154. yellowboy90

      Shaq actually missed another exit meeting before the 2003 one. He did eventually meet with Phil 2 weeks later but the point is it has happen to Phil before and that time it was an older player.

    155. swiftandabundant

      You guys are comparing fast food workers who get screwed over making minimum wage to KP, who is a millionaire.

      We can talk about incompetence and Phil treating KP and the players poorly, fact is KP is a millionaire getting to do one of the greatest jobs in the world in one of the premier cities in the world and is adored by millions of people all over the world. If he can’t handle a little criticism and some chaos in management, he’s softer skinned than I thought. Plus, Phil does hold the power in this relationship and to not recognize that is stupid. If he really wants to try and get in a power struggle with Phil when he’s a very tradeable asset and the team needs draft picks and there are plenty of shitty teams like Phoenix and Sacramento who have them..then go ahead. Just don’t be surprised when you then get traded to basketball and cultural siberia.

      It would suck but come on dude. Man up. Talk to Phil.

    156. JK47

      Another way that Phil is Trumpian is the way the bar is set so comically low for him.

      “Hey, he didn’t trade away any first round picks!”
      “Hey, he didn’t trade Porzigins for Devin Booker!”
      “Hey, he didn’t give a max extension to Derrick Rose!”
      “Hey, he didn’t vomit into the microphone when Trautwig was interviewing him!”
      “Did I mention he didn’t trade away any first round picks?”

    157. stratomatic

      How could it possibly be only 1:24PM? I’ve been stressing about this for at least 14 hours since i woke up this morning.

      You slept? :-)

    158. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      We can talk about incompetence and Phil treating KP and the players poorly, fact is KP is a millionaire getting to do one of the greatest jobs in the world in one of the premier cities in the world and is adored by millions of people all over the world.

      …whose future earnings depend in part on the health and success of his team. So, yeah, um, also, Porzingis holds the power in the relationship, since he could openly say he (1) wants a trade and (2) he will not re-sign with any team that trades for him. Imagine his trade value. Do you think the Knicks could get even a pair of 2nd-rounders for him, under those conditions?

      I’d rate your take a solid D+, only because you set the bar so low with Bargnani.

    159. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      “Hey, he didn’t trade Porzigins for Devin Booker!”

      yet

    160. Mike Kurylo Post author

      BTW there is no way the Spurs sign Rose. Not because he wouldn’t become productive under Pop. But because Rose would certainly use their offer as leverage to get more money from another place. My guess is he signs with Sacramento or Charlotte for a couple of million more, instead of trying to win a ring.

    161. TheOakmanCometh

      Tim Montemayor?
      @TheMontyShow
      Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact “down the road” on #Porzingis …”Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done” #NBADraft

    162. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Hey he acquired extra picks.
      Hey he picked Porzingis.
      Hey he stole Willy.

    163. Z-man

      I would love to hear responses on the following from posters:
      1. In order, who do you think we should draft at #8? (limit to 3 players from the group of DSjr. Monk, Frank, Markkanen, Mitchell, Zach Collins, Kennard) [the assumption is that Fultz, Ball, Josh, Fox , Tatum and Isaac will certainly be gone by #8, and anyone below that is a crazy reach]
      2. Who do you think we WILL draft?
      3. In order, which 10 players will have the best NBA careers?
      4. Which 3 players will be the biggest busts?
      5. Who will be the steal of the draft after pick #30?

    164. stratomatic

      whose future earnings depend in part on the health and success of his team. So, yeah, um, also, Porzingis holds the power in the relationship, since he could openly say he (1) wants a trade and (2) he will not re-sign with any team that trades for him. Imagine his trade value. Do you think the Knicks could get even a pair of 2nd-rounders for him, under those conditions?

      I don’t understand this.

      1. KP will be evaluated by his production on the court, not by the win/loss record of the Knicks or the dysfunction of the organization. Anthony Davis has been on bad dysfunctional teams his whole life and he’ll get whatever he wants whenever he wants it because everyone knows he’s great and he doesn’t cause any trouble.

      2. When you sign a contract, you are agreeing to the terms. KP can ask for all the trades he wants and we can say go F yourself until you are a free agent. Then he can leave on his own terms and get a max contract assuming he behaved professionally after the trade was rejected and didn’t damage himself.
      That’s in no one’s interests, including Phil’s. That’s why we try to avoid these things.

      If you think no one else noticed that he blew off the meeting you are mistaken. Everyone is just willing to overlook it because they know he’s an immature kid that made a mistake and it’s not a pattern of behavior to worry about. Phil is laying down the law.

      He’s saying, “We are not the Cleveland Cavaliers and you are not Lebron James. I am the boss. If you have a grievance about the system we are using, the coaches I hire, how I treated Melo etc.. you come to me like a man and we will discuss it. But you are not in charge and if you don’t like it, I have the power to trade your sorry ass to some team in some city you don’t want to go to if I think it’s in the team’s best interests”.

      Phil has to learn to be more politically astute and not hammer or criticize his players in the press even when they deserve…

    165. wetbandit

      NBA teams succeed due to their top tier talent. The more of it you have, the better. Can KP be top-tier talent? Yes. He already is that defensively. So you don’t give him up for more lesser talent, AKA Booker/Chriss.

      I would be so pissed.

    166. Philmelo

      The Suns haven't talked to the Knicks in quite some time, I'm told, and also have nothing doing on the LaMarcus Aldridge front.— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) June 22, 2017

      Sources: Several teams engaging with NY on Kristaps Porzingis – including Boston – are unwilling to meet Knicks demands for deal. So far.— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) June 22, 2017

      Hearing from several sources that nothing close to imminent between Knicks, Suns on potential Porzingis deal. Things can obviously change.— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) June 22, 2017

    167. Z-man

      My responses:
      1. DSjr., Mitchell, Monk
      2. Monk
      3. working on it
      4. Tatum, Ntilikina, Markkanen
      5. working on it

    168. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Lol Dolan is ecstatic about having Phil as the new fall guy for the Knicks woes. I bet he offers him a new contract in two years.

      @ 190

      Q1.
      1. DSJr
      2/3 Monk/Frank (I defer to Gaines on this one but probably opt for Monk w our limited info)

      Q2: We will draft Frank if Dallas doesn’t swap w Minne, Monk otherwise

      Q3:

      1. Ball (multiple all star)
      2. Isaac (multiple all star)
      3. Fultz (Kyrie level player–multiple all star but not the best PG in his conference)
      4. Z Collins
      5. Fox
      6. Smith
      7. Swanigan
      8. Josh Jackson
      9. Jayson Tatum
      10. Giles

      Q4: Markkanen, Monk is a coinflip, as is Frank. I don’t think anyone is an obvious bust other than Markkanen
      Q5: Steals will include any of Jordan Bell, Derrick White, Swanigan, Thornwell, Jawun Evans, Josh Hart, Tony Bradley. Best will be Swanigan, Bell, Evans in that order.

      As a bonus: Best UDFA will be Kennedy Meeks–he’ll cap out as a solid rotation player on a playoff team if given the chance.

    169. d-mar

      Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout

      And this was right after an advisor told Phil “don’t sleep on Zach Collins”

    170. Frank

      I hate to say it but Chriss + Bledsoe + presumably Josh Jackson is… not that bad.

      I was down on Chriss but his post-ASB stats were really pretty reasonable, especially considering he’s nearly 2 full years younger than KP (he’s almost 20, KP is almost 22):

      KP’s per-36 stats last year: 19.9 points, 45% FG%, 35.7% 3P%, 7.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 2 TO, 0.8 stl, 2.1 blocks (TS 54.6)

      Chriss’s per-36 stats postASB: 17 points, 49.8% FG%, 36% 3P%, 7.9 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 2.5 TOs, 1.2 stls, 1.9 blocks (TS 58)

      Obviously I’m cherrypicking his post-ASB stats.

      Bledsoe is injury prone but otherwise is a pretty good 2-way guard
      Josh Jackson is an unknown but is obviously a good prospect.

      If we could somehow get off some salary at the same time, it’s…. not ridiculous.

    171. ClashFan

      I don’t know what to make of Booker; I haven’t seen him much. He does score, but not very efficiently. However, he’s just 20.

      Some here rip the guy as mediocre to awful, but I see a lot of the media speak in glowing terms about him and mocking Phil for even daring to think that he could get him and the #4 for KP. The Phoenix media basically say he’s untouchable.

    172. danvt

      Thanks Mike @171 but that leaves me with a sinking feeling. Your take is “leave behind all hope ye who enter.”

      Is there no chance you’re happy with the team’s direction tomorrow?

      I’m gonna hope Isaac falls to us, we get Turner and 15 from Portlandia and use it to draft, wait for it, Frank from France ??!

      Until bad stuff actually happens I’m Stimpy.

    173. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Bryan Gibberman did a twitter poll asking if you’d trade Booker straight up for Lebron James and 70% of 100s of voters said no.

      They’re brainwashed over in Phoenix–kid is trash and a bottom tier NBA defender

    174. ClashFan

      @199
      I’d be wary of Bledsoe.

      Chriss plus the #4 pick is 2/3 pieces I’d want before seriously considering. Does Phoenix have a third?

      Even then, I really just want to see a third season from KP. KP plus Willy plus #8 and hopefully one more good prospect from the draft would be interesting. Oh, and a real PG from somewhere…

    175. swiftandabundant

      Jowles – that threat is meaningless. Even if you were worried Zinger would leave after his contract is up, you still get 3 years of a great player on a rookie contract. That is plenty of time to convince him to stay if you want and plenty of time to trade him again if he doesn’t want to stay or isn’t what you thought he would be. If Zinger was going into his last year then that threat would hold weight.

    176. swiftandabundant

      Jowles, obviously they can get much more than that if Phil is indeed talking to Boston and Phoenix.

      But hey, I was wrong once so I must always be wrong. Like Nate Silver, right? :)

      KP has very little leverage except for the fact that the fans love him and will roast Phil if he trades him. Only problem is Phil doesn’t give a shit about that.

      Also, we know Dolan HATES insubordination. I think he’s perfectly fine letting Phil trade him for picks if Phil thinks that is what is necessary. We’re talking a minimum of Phil getting a top 5 pick (which KP was) in a very good draft plus another starting caliber player. From a pure rebuild point of view this is trading 1 foundational piece for 2. Sure you have no idea if the pick will turn out good, but if its top 5 you know there’s a good chance, especially in this draft. And we also don’t know if KP will take the leap too, right?

      I mean, this site constantly talks about selling high on assets. Wouldn’t this be an example of Phil trying to do that? If Melo has poisoned KP’s thinking, isn’t this the time for Phil to sell high on KP?

      Again, I do not want Phil to trade KP AT ALL. I think this is all kind of dumb, from both sides, but the way people here are just so on KP’s side and see no value to Phil possibly trading him or his side of the situation…its not rational.

    177. Will the Thrill

      1. In order, who do you think we should draft at #8? (limit to 3 players from the group of DSjr. Monk, Frank, Markkanen, Mitchell, Zach Collins, Kennard)

      – DSjr, Frank, Monk

      2. Who do you think we WILL draft?

      – Frank

      3. In order, which 10 players will have the best NBA careers?

      – Ball – Fultz – Isaac – Jackson – Fox – DsJR – OG – Monk – Collins – Markkanen

      4. Which 3 players will be the biggest busts?

      – Tatum (in relation to where he will be drafted) – Frank (I know I said we should draft him, but he also has a very high chance of being a bust imo, I’m just willing to take the risk because we suck) – Mitchell (nothing special)

      5. Who will be the steal of the draft after pick #30?

      – Josh Hart (c’mon Phil)

    178. Frank

      OK I’m ready to talk potential KP trades now.

      Phoenix:
      Bledsoe, Chriss, 2017 #4, 2018 Miami pick (protected in 2018, unprotected 2019).

      Boston:
      2017 #3, the best of Nets/Lakers picks in 2018 (and if LAL doesn’t fall between 2-5 then we get the Nets pick), Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown.

      (I’d much rather have the Boston package)

    179. english_knick

      1. If KP still here? DSjr, Frank, Mitchell. If not, slide Collins in at 2 and move frank down a slot.

      2. Frank

      3. Fultz; Ball; Isaac; Fox; Tatum; DSj; OG; Giles; Collins; Jackson.

      Other answers to follow later.

    180. TheOakmanCometh

      When Dolan is offering Phil an extension in 2 years, if Phil falls asleep in that meeting, will that worry Dolan or nah?

    181. jk_in_the_park

      @182 Jowles

      Even if we agree with KP’s behavior, what is the best result — for us?

      1) KP forces Phil out, and the Knicks continue with Melo and KP? Do we want that?

      2) Phil apologizes for being mean to players, stays, and the Knicks continue with Melo and KP? Do we want that?

      3) Phil stands firm, ships Melo, but KP also stands firm, complaining for the balance of his contract that players are treated poorly by the Knicks. Do we want that?

      4) Phil ships Melo out, and ships KP out also. Do we want that?

      5) Phil ships Melo out, and KP backs down, happily becomes centerpiece of new team. I want that, however it goes down.

      IMHO there is probably no scenario in which both Phil and Melo are gone any time soon. No matter what KP is doing (on Melo’s behalf), this has always been about Phil v. Melo.

    182. Hubert

      According to a Knicks source, Jackson is asking for the third overall pick in Thursday’s draft as well as next year’s Brooklyn pick along with Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder. This version of the deal would not include Boston taking on Joakim Noah’s contract.

      The Celtics feel the price is far too high but they are open to tweaking the deal to include just one draft pick, either this year’s No. 3 or next year’s Brooklyn pick.

      This is ridiculous. I can’t believe this is what they’re spending their time on today.

      http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-price-porzingis-high-celtics-article-1.3269298

      Honestly I don’t even like version that is considered too high. Brooklyn’s pick next year probably isn’t going to be a top 5 pick.

    183. Accidentank 2017

      I do not want anything for Kristaps Porzingis because he is exactly the type of player you can build a championship around. I want him to retire a New York Knick and I’d rather have him than Phil Jackson.

    184. kevin5318

      Honestly I don’t even like version that is considered too high. Brooklyn’s pick next year probably isn’t going to be a top 5 pick.

      Why do you think that? They just traded Brook for Deangelo Russell.

    185. Hubert

      Let’s just take a step back.

      With everything this team needs, our team president is dedicating the most important 48 hours of the season to fielding trades for Kristaps Porzingis.

      This is insanity.

      Work on making the team better! Focus on getting a pick from Portland. Don’t have your head up your ass when the Lakers are giving away young talent. You’ve done one good thing while you’ve been here. Stop working so hard to undo it.

    186. JK47

      Phil needs to not get cute, put the phone away and just draft BPA at #8. No high-degree-of-difficulty kind of shit please.

    187. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      BK 2018, #3, Crowder, and Brown is good return on KP. I’d think about signing off on it. If they took out Brown I wouldn’t however.

    188. DRed

      @IanBegley

      Sources: BOS offered NYK its No. 3 pick, a player & an additional lottery pick that they think they can acquire tonight in a trade for KP.

    189. Hubert

      Why do you think that? They just traded Brook for Deangelo Russell.

      He might pan out. And let’s say it’s the 4th pick…there might not be a good player there. Sorry, that’s just not a compelling package to me. It’s a lot of assets, sure. But we have a bird in the hand.

    190. Nick C.

      would love to hear responses on the following from posters:
      1. In order, who do you think we should draft at #8? Frank, DS Jr., Monk

      2. Who do you think we WILL draft? Monk

      3. In order, which 10 players will have the best NBA careers? Isaac, Fultz, Josh Jackson, Ball, Anunoby, Fox, Jarrett Allen ( I never heard of him but his numbers looked good as a freshman and this is a guessing game), Frank and I don’t know maybe Smith, Collins, Monk

      4. Which 3 players will be the biggest busts? no idea, Mitchell from Louisville seems like a possibity

      5. Who will be the steal of the draft after pick #30? Frank Mason, and in a homer vote Tyler Lydon (though I see mocks have him late 1st)

    191. Totes McGoats

      You know where I’m torn? I see Phil’s “vision”, and I believe in it. I really believe it’s sound. But..the way it’s being carried out is like..well..remember that picture of George H.W. with the binoculars up to his eyes backwards? Well imagine that sitchew goin like this:
      H.W.: Yea man..I can see it. Watch this..if you look through these binoculars, it’s real clear! Ah man! These are really nice- you oughta try em! You put em on like this here..wstch..
      *slams binoculars up to his face backwards and thus renders his vision in that fashion useless*

      Y’kno? Phil wants to trade Melo. Phil subsequently torpedoes his trade value. Phil realizes he has the binoculars on backwards and says, “oh shit! Let me backtrack and make sure I say great things about these binoculars that somehow got placed backwards and expect people not to notice because I’m Phil”. He’s carrying out a sound vision while wearing a blindfold with PRIDE written on it.

      Somehow, Dolan has to grow some stones and get angry enough to facilitate a solution to what’s going on within his organization. Force Phil to work with a strong FO partner like Phil is forcing his coach to work with Rambis. And by “strong FO partner”, I mean a veteran advisor.

      As far as tonight goes, I will be happy if we draft Ntilikina at 8, trade for the 12th pick and select Mitchell while coming away with developmental players in round 2 who have great measurables, defensive potential, and the ability to make outside shots- like Cam Oliver and LJ Peak, for instance.

    192. Hubert

      BK 2018, #3, Crowder, and Brown is good return on KP

      Maybe it is. So what? I don’t want a good return on our 21 year old potential superstar. I want my team president to pull his head out of his ass and put some good fucking players around him.

    193. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @224

      I agree, I’d rather stand pat especially if this is coming at the expense of more obvious value plays like a Portland salary dump etc. Just saying that it’s a considerable haul.

    194. Hubert

      This isn’t Carmelo Anthony forcing a trade out of Denver. This is a kid under control who wants to play here who we’re weighing good packages for because he missed an exit meeting. Christ almighty.

      I’ll trade Porzingis under one circumstance: we get back a player who is better than Kristaps Porzingis. We should consider absolutely nothing else. Fuck assets. Phil can’t do shit with them.

    195. Sir Robin

      @217-Hubert: 100%. Phil, Gaines, Mills and Co. needed to be spending the last 48 hours doing the calculus on best positioning for the draft. Do what it takes to trade to 7 (or higher) if Isaac is still there. Or trade with Cuban if he’s still hard for Ntilikina. Or trade down if the BPA at 8 will be available at 12. Or package KoQ, Lee, or whomever to get another pick. Or absorb cap space with another 1st (or 2nds). Remember, each draft pick is about making sure you made the best choice of players available. Do something productive!

    196. Z-man

      I know that the Celts can put together an intriguing package, but the thought of KP in Celtics green tormenting us for the next 15 years is literally unthinkable.

    197. ptmilo

      man if you would have told me in April that 95 pct of draft day talk would be about the Knicks closing in on trading a star it would have sounded so pleasant

    198. JK47

      Yeah, the fact that Phil has wasted a whole day and a half trying to trade away his only good asset doesn’t speak well for his competence.

      Fuck you, Phil. You fucking suck.

    199. stratomatic

      Sources: BOS offered NYK its No. 3 pick, a player & an additional lottery pick that they think they can acquire tonight in a trade for KP.

      It depends who that player and what that pick is, but that’s getting warm.

    200. Z-man

      OTOH walking away from this draft with Isaac, Fox and Collins…or Jackson, Markannen and Smith Jr….plus either Crowder or Smart… that has to be considered.

    201. TheOakmanCometh

      Porzingis would be a star in Boston. Just wait. Brad Stevens is going to turn him into a complete killer.

    202. SSS

      It depends who that player and what that pick is, but that’s getting warm.

      I really don’t want to consider this possibility, but I’ll bite – which 3 would you suggest if we’re picking at 3, 8 and 10 (e.g.)? Perhaps(3) Jackson, (8) Frank/Monk/DSJ and (10) Collins?

    203. geo

      Fuck you, Phil. You fucking suck.

      was thinking of what to add today – but, jk47 already summed it up very well…

    204. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Honestly I’d be pissed if we did a KP trade that didn’t land us Lonzo but it doesn’t look like it’s meant to be

    205. Sir Robin

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Collins and Markannen could easily be busts. DSJ could tear his other 5 ACLs. Crowder and Smart are good rotation players but do not move the needles. Hold KP-it could be worse than Boston trading Babe Ruth, in that KP is much, much younger. Taught the right way, he could have Jabbar’s sky-hook and be unstoppable from the post and from 3. Who else has the potential to do that? Any draft pick is a question mark; KP has answered a lot of questions already, from an objective standpoint.

    206. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Id pick Jackson at 3, DSjr at 8, and Kennard or Frank or Mitchell at 10. Willy would be the center of the future in this case.

      but pls let it not happen

    207. Philmelo

      Having #3 (preferably Isaac), Crowder, Brown, and an extra shot at Donkic next season is tempting as hell. But I still wouldn’t pull that trigger.

    208. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @244

      whoops, forgot about Isaac. Yeah, it’d be Isaac over Jackson.

    209. djphan

      1. In order, who do you think we should draft at #8? (limit to 3 players from the group of DSjr. Monk, Frank, Markkanen, Mitchell, Zach Collins, Kennard)
      smith, collins and kennard … if it wasn’t for the recent drama i’d put collins first…
      2. Who do you think we WILL draft?
      i think it’s monk… if not him then frank the tank… and i am lamenting another golden opportunity…
      3. In order, which 10 players will have the best NBA careers?
      fultz, collins, fox, smith, tatum, jackson, isaac, ball and then god knows who.. kennard and anunoby possibly…
      4. Which 3 players will be the biggest busts? ball will probably disappoint… but maybe not bust… monk has huge bust potential as does frank… markannen is a guaranteed bust…
      5. Who will be the steal of the draft after pick #30?
      josh hart… but he got in the first… if not him then probably monte morris

    210. djphan

      if we come out of this draft with jackson/tatum and zach collins.. that might be worth kp by itself…

    211. english_knick

      Begley reporting boston’s offer as #3, a second lotto tonight ahead of our own 8 And a player. If it’s Smart, plus 3 and another top 7 pick, I’ll still hate it but I might be willing to accept that on a purely objective basis maybe Phil didn’t get totally hosed.

    212. Frank O.

      If anyone is surprised that Phil is very serious about trading KP, they have their head in the sand.
      Who didn’t think there would be a bidding war to try and get the unicorn.
      Now I just hope KP leaves and goes somewhere that will help him develop and succeed, not some faux basketball Mecca, where they can’t crack 40 wins and raise ticket prices.

    213. heavencent35

      So the Knicks asking price is crowder, brown, 2 1st from Celtics (I hope that’s top 3 and Brooklyn next year).
      From Knicks perspective I think that’s kinda soso.
      But for Celtics perspective I’m not sure why they’re not pulling the trigger. That’s a no brainer for them. As in.
      I won’t be devastated if the trade happens. But that’s a complete rebuild.

    214. Hubert

      This is so bad.

      Phil is clearly in negotiations with Ainge.

      This is sooooo bad.

      I would rather my girlfriend be in a hotel room with Ryan Gosling than Phil be negotiating with Danny Ainge about Kristaps Porzingis.

    215. Philmelo

      Damn, if Boston gets desperate we could have this lineup in two years:

      5-Willy
      4-Isaac
      3-Crowder/Brown
      2-Ntilikina
      1-Doncic

      Think about that fellas. Its so damn hard. I understand why Phil would want to make that deal happen, but I just can’t say goodbye to my Unicorn.

    216. Owen

      I am willing to accept the possibility that there are trades for Porzingis that make sense.

      I just don’t think i will be able to make sense of any trade that does happen.

    217. MSA

      The Boston offer is tempting.

      I gotta say that I have lower expectations about KP than most here.

    218. heavencent35

      My asking price for KP-
      Boston number 3, Brooklyn pick next year, Crowder, Brown, and Smart!

      Let’s do it, that will be my New York Knicks. To get it done unload Lance Thomas.

      Knicks full of young players is worth it.

    219. heavencent35

      Think of it guys that Boston trade is once in a lifetime opportunity to be not Knicks.
      Porzingis is good. We know his weaknesses. That boston trade is worth it,

    220. geo

      I would rather my girlfriend be in a hotel room with Ryan Gosling than Phil be negotiating with Danny Ainge about Kristaps Porzingis.

      yep…

      this is kinda crazy – but, i wonder if shipping out KP has anything to do with phil trying to get rid of melo…meaning surround melo with mostly rooks and sophomores (actually a little like last season – only with even less experienced players), to try to “inspire” (that’s what phil does right – “inspire” folks) melo to waive the no-trade…

      phil most certainly does want to win – just not as it relates to basketball games…

    221. Philmelo

      I would rather my girlfriend be in a hotel room with Ryan Gosling than Phil be negotiating with Danny Ainge about Kristaps Porzingis.

      L-O-L

    222. bidiong

      Objectively 3 of the top 8 in this draft plus a good Celtic player too… I mean we constantly talk about cost controlled talent. We would have a ton of it for a long time with Willy still on the team. It has to be considered. We all love KP though.

    223. kevin5318

      @ramonashelburne
      Knicks source on Phil right now: “he’s dug in. If he doesn’t get exactly what he wants, there will be no (Porzingis) trade.

    224. ClashFan

      Ainge probably does not want to mess with his core rotation guys, and so might be trying to do the deal without including Crowder and, maybe, Smart. He also really wants to keep Brooklyn’s first next year. Maybe Brown is the guy he’s willing to include?

      I wonder what other top 7 pick Ainge thinks he can acquire in his supposed offer?

      Yeah, very scary dealing with Ainge and the Celtics.

    225. thenamestsam

      I would rather my girlfriend be in a hotel room with Ryan Gosling than Phil be negotiating with Danny Ainge about Kristaps Porzingis.

      Couldn’t have said it better myself. On the plus side Boston does have the kind of stuff we would theoretically want. But on the downside this is like a con-man walking into a retirement community.

      And even if we pull off a deal where we get good value we’ll have to watch Porzingis play out his career for the Celtics. I’m seriously not sure I could handle that part of it. I’d honestly rather take Phoenix’s pupu platter offer than have to watch KP win playoff series wearing green. I just don’t think I could handle it.

    226. Z-man

      If we had #3, #7 and #8 in this draft and no KP, you would like to build around Willy, but who knows, Willy and KP are very tight and maybe HE skips his exit meeting next year.

      Would you draft PG or wing first? Clearly, you would only get one of Fox, Isaac and Josh. I guess you go with Isaac. But then what? Markkanen or Collins to replace KP (Collins is a better player but with Willy in the fold, draft the shooter?) Smith Jr. or Frank (please no!) as your PG?

      Or draft Fox at the three, then go for bigs/wings at 7&8?

    227. Philmelo

      @ramonashelburne
      Knicks source on Phil right now: “he’s dug in. If he doesn’t get exactly what he wants, there will be no (Porzingis) trade.

      I so hope this is true. Phil has the leverage. Unless he gets a megadeal he should tell Ainge to kick rocks.

    228. Farfa

      Hey guys. Do we realize that if we are offered 2 top 7 picks (one being the 3rd overall) and a decent young player trading KP makes all the sense in the world?

      Again, I know KP is super exciting. But he’s nowhere near star level, let alone superstar. I’ll take three young players that in two years will have nothing to do with Phil rather than our misguided unicorn.

    229. Philmelo

      If we had #3, #7 and #8 in this draft and no KP, you would like to build around Willy, but who knows, Willy and KP are very tight and maybe HE skips his exit meeting next year.

      And if Willy can fetch two high lottery picks and two rotational defensive talents then you trade him too.

    230. JK47

      Whatever. None of this matters.

      Phil Jackson is the GM of this team, and as long as that is a factorial fact, this team ain’t winnin’ shit. So go ahead, trade Porzingis. It does not matter anyway. This team is run by a clown and owned by a halfwit. Good things are not happening here.

      They’re fun to point at and laugh though.

    231. KnicksFanInVA

      We thought that Melo would be the one to get traded. Instead its KP. LOL Knicks.

    232. Farfa

      Oh and KP is really, really not a great defender. He’s for sure a good rim protector, but other than that he’s quite pedestrian.

    233. BklnBoy

      Hey guys. Do we realize that if we are offered 2 top 7 picks (one being the 3rd overall) and a decent young player trading KP makes all the sense in the world?

      Again, I know KP is super exciting. But he’s nowhere near star level, let alone superstar. I’ll take three young players that in two years will have nothing to do with Phil rather than our misguided unicorn.

      +1. If KP is not traded today, he is most likely going to leave the Knicks when his contract is up anyway, which is in 3 years. I’d much rather spend the next 3 years blowing it up now and grooming Boston’s picks. The Celts are not going to get past CLE any time soon anyway with KP.

    234. Farfa

      @274

      Kinda far fetched, but it’s a theory. Truth be told, we should stop thinking that Phil is playing mind games anyway. He’s clearly not able to do that anymore.

    235. GoldClub

      Awesome: “I would rather my girlfriend be in a hotel room with Ryan Gosling than Phil be negotiating with Danny Ainge about Kristaps Porzingis”.

      However, if we are talking three high lottery picks and a rotation player or two I do it…

    236. BigBlueAL

      Let’s trade KP (who turns 22 in a couple of months) for draft picks that we hope turn out to be as good as KP. Makes perfect sense.

    237. Philmelo

      Let’s be honest.

      5-Willy
      4-Isaac
      3-Crowder/Brown
      2-Ntilikina
      1-Donkic

      Is better than any lineup we could put with KP the next two years.

    238. Farfa

      Thing is, KP is not that good. He might become good, clearly, but you have to groom the team around his weaknesses, and Phil is clearly unable/deaf at that. So, I’d like to scratch that and restart. If we had KAT? That would be something else entirely.

    239. Jack Bauer

      I’m keeping my expectations really low so as not to be too disappointed in today’s outcome.
      I expect it to go something like this:

      #8 pick Monk/DSJ/or Frank
      #44 – A somewhat useful player, maybe Thornwell, Hart if we’re lucky but he’ll be gone, Kobe Simmons or ….
      #52 – some Euro no one’s heard of and likely never will

      Hopefully Phil doesn’t have a Peyote flashback and do something really stupid which is quite possible and could ruin the day

    240. Philmelo

      KP is going to be very good, but we don’t even have many assets to surround him with going forward because of how fucked up Phil and previous GMs handled this team’s post 2012 roster. So what can we do? We can try to build solidly and slowly around KP or we can cash him in and collect lots and lots of assets the next two seasons. I’d be happy with either, but let’s not pretend the latter option isn’t attractive.

    241. chrisk06811

      How about this…..
      Melo and Zinger for Amir Johnson, Kelly O, Zeller, Crowder, the 3 pick, and either Brooklyn’s next year, or a lottery pick??

      if Bos wants zinger that bad, let them take Melo.

    242. Farfa

      If Phil wasn’t in charge, I’d stick with KP. I’m actually worried that he will stunt his development.

    243. heavencent35

      Common guy. We’ve been waiting for this for more than a decade. That Boston offer is something that we should do. I love KP but that’s worth it. KP could be a superstar but he could be just an Ibaka.

    244. Jack Bauer

      “Let’s trade KP (who turns 22 in a couple of months) for draft picks that we hope turn out to be as good as KP. Makes perfect sense.”

      Of course -It’s Knicks logic, get it???

    245. Farfa

      @286

      If the price Phil is asking is really that high, it might be for sure much ado about nothing.

    246. Hubert

      ramonashelburne
      Knicks source on Phil right now: “he’s dug in. If he doesn’t get exactly what he wants, there will be no (Porzingis) trade.

      The problem is what he wants isn’t nearly enough. He seems to think Markannen is an adequate Porzingis replacement, and everything else he gets is a bonus. He couldn’t be more wrong.

    247. DRed

      Maybe it is. So what? I don’t want a good return on our 21 year old potential superstar. I want my team president to pull his head out of his ass and put some good fucking players around him.

      Honestly, there is surely some hypothetical package that is worth trading Porzingis for, but we’re acting like we’re a team with our superstar approaching unrestricted free agency. Instead we have Porzingis controlled for cheap for at least the next 3 seasons. There is absolutely no reason to trade him now. If we need to trade Porzingis, we can come back and get the same type offer next year.

    248. chrisk06811

      sounds like the pick bos thinks they can get is the 7th pick, from Minn. That would put us at 3, 7 and 8. So, that probably means Tatum or Jackson, Smith or Frank, and I guess Monk. are either of the 3 “bigs” a viable PF? or are they all SFs?

      Man, if Bos had kept the 1st, this really would be a viable trade.

    249. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @290

      I think the worry is that if KP doesn’t make a leap or, even worse, stagnates the 3rd year his value plummets and we’d get much less in a trade. His value is highest now, at this very moment.

      That being said I think he will make a leap next year, so I’m for tabling this until a later date. But that’s also poisonous from an organizational standpoint–imagine going into training camp next year with all the talk of trade rumors and whatnot?

    250. chrisk06811

      I guess Phoenix’s offer is Bledsoe, Chriss and the 4. not sure I want a 27 year old PG

    251. heavencent35

      Phil should just play it like if you can’t give us what we want no deal. That’s it. Porzingis is cheap for next 3 years but we will be getting 2-3 players who could be worst or better than KP cheap for 4 years plus quality players.

    252. Hubert

      Objectively 3 of the top 8 in this draft plus a good Celtic player too… I mean we constantly talk about cost controlled talent. We would have a ton of it for a long time with Willy still on the team. It has to be considered. .

      NO IT DOESN’T!!!!

      PORZINGIS IS COST CONTROLLED TALENT!!!

      What is wrong with everyone???? I know his sophomore year was disappointing. YOU DON’T TRADE HIM NOW even if he is overrated!!!

      Phil wants to trade Kristaps Porzingis for Josh Jackson, Jae Crowder, and some lottery tickets. And then he wants to draft Lauri Markannen to replace him. STOP TALKING YOURSELVES INTO THIS!

    253. Farfa

      @293

      The Phoenix package makes no sense for us. Bledsoe is often injured and Chriss is a punk with low basketball IQ.

    254. Philmelo

      The thing is that we need assets. I can’t blame Phil for wanting them even if his methods are piss poor embarrassing. KP isn’t a superstar yet. I think he’ll be one, but he has questions to answer in his career as well.

    255. bobneptune

      You guys are nutz. It is just US politics redux. Anything proposed by a Republican auto sux. Anything proposed by a Democrat auto sux.

      There are Phil haters here and some Phil-o-philes just arguing to support their biased POV.

      There clearly IS a package that KP SHOULD be traded for. What is it I do not know. Personally I am an Issac nuthugger. I would not be at all surprised if he by himself has a better career than KP.

      The Knicks have their opinions of the players in this draft. They have their opinion on KP. People here certainly look at KP through rose colored glasses . You guys realized he has platzed after 25 games two years in a row? After his uber hot November he played well below league average last season’s last 4.5 months.

      And some of the packages being mentioned here aren’t good because Knicks and because Phil???????

    256. Farfa

      You guys realized he has platzed after 25 games two years in a row? After his uber hot November he played well below league average last season’s last 4.5 months.

      That’s another thing that’s worrying me.

    257. Hubert

      And even if we pull off a deal where we get good value we’ll have to watch Porzingis play out his career for the Celtics. I’m seriously not sure I could handle that part of it. I’d honestly rather take Phoenix’s pupu platter offer than have to watch KP win playoff series wearing green. I just don’t think I could handle it.

      I would honestly be done with basketball forever if we trade him to BOston

    258. Farfa

      @301

      In a vacuum you obviously don’t trade KP. But we’re not in a vacuum, since we have to carry this frigging Phil burden.

    259. JK47

      If Phil wasn’t in charge, I’d stick with KP. I’m actually worried that he will stunt his development.

      So let’s get some other young players and let Phil fuck up THEIR development instead.

      #Knicks

    260. d-mar

      The 2015 draft is a cautionary tale as to how valuable top 10 picks are:

      #2 Russell
      #3 Okafor
      #5 Hezonga
      #6 Cauley-Stein
      #7 Mudiay
      #8 Stanley Johnson

      And that was supposed to be a pretty good draft, just like this year’s.

      For God’s sakes, keep the bird in the hand and stop with these KP trade talks!

    261. DRed

      I think the worry is that if KP doesn’t make a leap or, even worse, stagnates the 3rd year his value plummets and we’d get much less in a trade. His value is highest now, at this very moment.

      Why would a 7’3″ 22 year old who is a very good rim protector and can shoot 3s and will be cost controlled for two more years not be very valuable next season? His value is highest now unless he improves, and it is highly likely that a guy will improve between his year 21 and year 22 seasons.

    262. Farfa

      Actually Cauley-Stein is a good player. And I still have hope for both Hezonja and Stanley Johnson.

    263. Farfa

      @305

      DRed, I admit I might be biased, but are we forgetting who’s running things right now? How can KP improve if he’s not handed the keys to this franchise this year?

    264. JK47

      Actually Cauley-Stein is a good player. And I still have hope for both Hezonja and Stanley Johnson.

      Wait a minute. You say Porzingis “isn’t that good,” but you have hope for Hezonja and Stanley Johnson, who have both been horrible for two consecutive seasons?

    265. chrisk06811

      I guess if you can get two teams to possibly outbid each other, but still not deal him if you don’t get what you want, this is OK. I don’t like the Markannen angle. question is, what message does it send KP? On one hand, teams are offering a shitload for him, and if we say no, maybe it proves how much we value him. On the other, maybe it tells him nobody is untouchable. On the other, maybe it just pisses him off. Dude does need to grow up

    266. yellowboy90

      You guys act like you have not seen this movie starring Phil before. Every trade rumor seems pretty good/great and then when the trade happens and you see the actual results you begin to get sick to your stomach.

    267. Farfa

      I’m not saying KP is bad. I’d like to keep him. But I think he’s far from the general consensus of “star/superstar in the making”. He’s no sure thing. Yes, he improved his shooting percentages but he’s not efficient (yet). Yes, he is a good rim protector. But: no, he’s actually gotten worse at fouling people. He’s gotten worse at rebounding. He’s gotten worse at lateral defense. He’s quite stagnated at shot selection. I mean, you have to consider all of those things. Is he the third best rookie of the 2015-2016 class? Sure. Is he a cornerstone? It really depends on what we’re offered. In my book, two top 7 picks this year plus a decent young player might do the trick.

    268. CaptainB

      These KP comments are crazy. He’s a 21 years old and 2 years further ahead of where anyone could projected he’d be when he drafted him. Nonsense.

    269. bobneptune

      Honestly, there is surely some hypothetical package that is worth trading Porzingis for, but we’re acting like we’re a team with our superstar approaching unrestricted free agency. Instead we have Porzingis controlled for cheap for at least the next 3 seasons. There is absolutely no reason to trade him now. If we need to trade Porzingis, we can come back and get the same type offer next year.

      The problem with this reasoning is we don’t have a super star, and all star or a shooting star. We have a league average player with great upside that has shown a proclivity two consecutive years to run out of gas after 25-30 games. If he gains significant weight on his frame he is going to lose mobility. He has zero post game and instead of working on one he is cross training and then will be playing for the Latvian National team when he should be doing nothing by core work, cardio and the throwing up 500 jump hooks a day.

    270. wetbandit

      ESPN Boston’s Dave McMenamin:

      “Source familiar with the talks between NYK & BOS told ESPN that NY’s demands for Porzingis are “ridiculous”..”

      ” Also, I’m told that the Celtics and Knicks haven’t had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven’t revisited.”

      OOOOOOOOK THEN

    271. bobneptune

      Strange as it might be, I totally agree with bobneptune this time.

      Why would that be?

      I am always the moderating voice of reason here :-)

    272. d-mar

      The problem with this reasoning is we don’t have a super star, and all star or a shooting star. We have a league average player with great upside that has shown a proclivity two consecutive years to run out of gas after 25-30 games. If he gains significant weight on his frame he is going to lose mobility. He has zero post game and instead of working on one he is cross training and then will be playing for the Latvian National team when he should be doing nothing by core work, cardio and the throwing up 500 jump hooks a day.

      True, hard to see a 21 year old improving any aspect of his game. Look at Dirk, what you saw after 2 years was pretty much what you got for his whole career.

    273. Hubert

      We have a league average player with great upside

      Even if you’re low assessment of him is accurate, do you know how rare it is for a draft pick to be this good after year 2? Giannis, for example, was just a below average player with great upside after two years.

    274. bobneptune

      The funny thing is Ainge is under a little pressure here. He has a chance to bag a great white hope that obviously sells well to the shamrock faithful. The also need a big man and a rim protector. If there ever was a player for them to empty the vault for, KP is it. Their best player by far isn’t a guy that can wait 5 years for this years #3 and next year’s Nyet pick to become all stars.

    275. Hubert

      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-knicks-would-be-crazy-to-trade-kristaps-porzingis/

      ^ brings up what none of you talk about when discussing how average he is: he’s already an elite defender.

      But Porzingis isn’t just a prospect. He’s the sort of concrete asset that teams like the Knicks should be turning their organization inside-out to make happy.

      Porzingis’s offensive numbers flattened out in his sophomore season, which may seem like reason for concern. But underneath modest gains to his overall shooting percentage, Porzingis made improvements in key areas. He scored much better around the rim, improving from 57.6 to 70.1 percent on shots from 0 to 3 feet, and from midrange, improving from 40.5 to 48.2 percent from 10 to 16 feet. This was offset by a nosedive on his percentage on long 2s, but he also took fewer of those shots in his second season in favor of more 3-pointers as he adjusted to the NBA 3-point line. Still, he was a good but not exceptional offensive player in a year when fellow young, big stars Karl-Anthony Towns and (especially) Nikola Jokic had breakout seasons.

      But while Porzingis has untapped potential on offense, he’s already one of the best defensive players in the league.

      [chart]

      Though he isn’t as well known for his defense as peers on this list, his production stands alongside that of some of the best defensive players in the league. Meanwhile, Towns was ranked 79th, and Jokic was 479th out of 485. In an environment where teams are increasingly packing a few specialized skills into their big men, Porzingis’s ability to protect the rim, score inside and stretch the floor make him ready to contribute to a contending team right now, today, even if he isn’t quite ready to carry an offense.

      But sure, let’s trade him for picks and pretend Phil will do something other than draft “best fit for the triangle available.”

    276. bobneptune

      True, hard to see a 21 year old improving any aspect of his game. Look at Dirk, what you saw after 2 years was pretty much what you got for his whole career.

      Did Dirk shit the bed after 25 games his first 2 years, have a chronic anemia, an achilles strain and the most unusual physique in the history of professional sports?

      Probably not?

    277. Philmelo

      The funny thing is Ainge is under a little pressure here. He has a chance to bag a great white hope that obviously sells well to the shamrock faithful.

      Yep. Despite all of the assets they’ve accumulated, the Celtics are team that’s built to win now with a core in their physical prime seasons playing in a league which is dominated by the Golden State Warriors and a conference dominated by the Cleveland Cavaliers. He wants to contend during that era and beyond he’s going to have to hit on a pick bigtime, which he hasn’t yet. So his main impetus should be to get a young, cost controlled stud to make up the difference and build around when Thomas, Horford, etc. get over the hill.

      Phil can basically wait for the same reason Melo can – the New York Knicks aren’t going anyway and nothing is expected of them in the forseeable future.

    278. Farfa

      @321

      That would be if we had the good sense to play him exclusively at the 5 on defense, which is a problem with our rebounding.

    279. chrisk06811

      to add to Bob’s point…..would Dirk have blown off his Sophomore exit interview, even if Dallas mgt were incompetent? especially if he had a disappointing 2nd half? I doubt it

    280. Hubert

      He has zero post game and instead of working on one he is cross training and then will be playing for the Latvian National team when he should be doing nothing by core work, cardio and the throwing up 500 jump hooks a day.

      Zero post game? Jump hooks?!

      Would you like him to work on his underhanded free throws, too?

    281. chrisk06811

      Apparently Bos is countering that they will throw in James Young as the 2nd player, but not the SF; the guitarist from STYX, hoping that Phil won’t know the difference.

      and, shit, I can’t post the cool 80’s photo I found

    282. Philmelo

      to add to Bob’s point…..would Dirk have blown off his Sophomore exit interview, even if Dallas mgt were incompetent? especially if he had a disappointing 2nd half? I doubt it

      Dirk was never hyped up half as much as KP’s been in his first two seasons. Its a different league today. For better or worse, we live in an NBA era where star players leverage their front offices to do what they want or else they leave via FA.

    283. bobneptune

      Apparently Bos is countering that they will throw in James Young as the 2nd player, but not the SF; the guitarist from STYX, hoping that Phil won’t know the difference.

      if they threw in Neil Young or George Clinton it would be deal done!

    284. steveoh

      Here’s the saddest part of all this: Now Kristaps has seen first-hand how miserably and publicly the team treats their star (Melo), and how Phil and Dolan run the organization without any sort of accountability, and how it looks like four straight years of bad basketball.

      And now, on top of all that, he sees how they’re treating him when things get rough?

      Trading him now makes sense because they just made it impossible for him to sign an extension. And that’s all self-inflicted.

      Fuck Phil.

    285. bobneptune

      Would you like him to work on his underhanded free throws, too?

      Yeah I would if he could make them like Rick Barry.

      KP’s biggest limitation is he plays like a small forward. Unfortunately when he is taken out away from the basket and abused and leaps on close outs and gets himself in foul trouble when played by a shorter man, he cannot make them pay on the other end because he can’t post up anyone without getting stripped consistently.

      Having a go to post move would improve his worth immeasurably. But he’d rather play for the National team and cross train……

    286. jkhar

      almost 340 comments today, wow…you would think we just let Jeremy Lin go to Houston as a free agent, or something ;)

    287. Hubert

      KP’s biggest limitation is he plays like a small forward

      Durant has the same problem. LeBron, too.

      Unfortunately when he is taken out away from the basket and abused and leaps on close outs and gets himself in foul trouble when played by a shorter man, he cannot make them pay on the other end because he can’t post up anyone without getting stripped consistently.

      He’s going to end up being a 5 on defense. He should be now, but we’re not that smart. Not a lot of 5’s are going to be taking him like that.

      This is all fixable stuff. This kid is being taken apart for not already being perfect.

    288. jkhar

      Last year’s 3rd pick, this year’s 3rd pick and a top 5 next year …plus another decent player, is not a bad haul for KP. We talk all the time about having controllable assets…there you go?!

    289. bobneptune

      Here’s the saddest part of all this: Now Kristaps has seen first-hand how miserably and publicly the team treats their star (Melo),

      Oh please…. the Knicks literally gave up the sun and the moon for him, kissed his ass and gave him the best contract in the NBA. How exactly did they treat him badly? and what did he do in return?

      When they finally got 20 games of very good point guard play, he intentionally sabotaged the offense because a Chinese guy was getting more ink than him and totally refused to play defense or offense within any coaches system other than when he was totally green lighted to ISOME7O.

      Yeah, the Knicks undeservedly fucked poor Me7o!

      If KP is too dumb to understand that………

    290. ClashFan

      RE whether or not KP will ever become a star. For all his problems so far, I’d really like to see him get a year with a good PG to see what he can really become, or not become.

      As DRed said, you don’t have to do a deal this year. Of course, there’s risks in trading him or not trading him.

      At the #8 tonight, I’m guessing either Monk or Frank. I don’t think they’ll take DSJ if he’s available. I still think that Monk will be gone before 8. Of course, I’ve been wrong before.

    291. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Isaac
      Willy
      Crowder
      Ntilikina
      Doncic

      I said this 24 hours ago and everyone was bawling in their milk about it.

      Phil Jackson is trolling all of you, plus the insubordinate KP, the lying press, and Danny Ainge all at once.
      I love it!
      Thanks, Phil!

    292. Hubert

      Last year’s 3rd pick, this year’s 3rd pick and a top 5 next year …plus another decent player, is not a bad haul for KP. We talk all the time about having controllable assets…there you go?!

      It wouldn’t be bad… if we had to trade him…

      fucking hell, thank god it’s 5:00. I’m going to drink now.

    293. thenamestsam

      This reminds me of the “Golden State will never win anything because they’re a jump shooting team” idiocy from a couple years ago. Do people really not see the way the league is headed??

    294. JK47

      I ain’t gonna lie, the #3 pick, the Nets’ 2018 pick, Jaylen Brown and Crowder for KP would probably be a smart trade for the Knicks. That would be three years of a cost-controlled KP for three years of a cost-controlled Crowder, four years of Brown, five years of the #3 pick and five years of the Nets’ 2018 pick. I would not shit on that deal if Phil managed to pull that off.

    295. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      In a perverse way, I wouldn’t mind sending the insubordinate baby unicorn to Phoenix where it’s 122 degrees in the shade today as long as we get back Marquese Chriss in the deal, who likes to kick sand on KP every chance he gets.

    296. Z-man

      I have loved KP since the days before he was drafted and was as happy as anyone here that we drafted him…check the record! However, there are some definite concerns with him, noted in @311 and @313. The only thing he does at an elite level is defend the rim. His stamina is a definite concern, and I worry that it’s a congenital thing, not a conditioning thing. He gets roughed up and knocked off his game pretty easily. He certainly can’t stay in front of typical SFs, let alone elite ones. He’s a terrible PnR defender. He’s a lousy rebounder, and becoming a better one may require him to do things that will get him hurt.

      Yes, trading him for essentially the same pick in an equally (and perhaps more) stacked draft is risky. But let’s not forget that other pieces are involved. Let’s also not forget that he aggressively trashed and showed up management, which he has the “right” to do, but which also suggests that you want out.

      As much as I love him, I would have no problem trading him for the right package. I agree that Phil should play hardball. I doubt that he seriously offered him for Booker and the #4 and that PHX refused, since he is turning down a much better offer from Boston. But if I can get multiple top-10 picks, a good player and maybe some cap relief, I have to put my irrational love for the kid aside.

    297. DRed

      KP should be a complete player after 2 seasons in the NBA, like every other guy who came into the league at 19. It’s absurd and inexcusable that he’s not, so we essentially are forced to trade him.

    298. chrisk06811

      fivethirtyeight says we would be crazy to trade KP. Then again, they thought Trump would not win, and that worked out just fine.

    299. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      The Cavs and Spurs have been in trade talks involving Danny Green, sources say. Spurs’ asking price has been high, though.

      Per Windhorst

    300. bobneptune

      RE whether or not KP will ever become a star. For all his problems so far, I’d really like to see him get a year with a good PG to see what he can really become, or not become.

      As DRed said, you don’t have to do a deal this year. Of course, there’s risks in trading him or not trading him.

      I agree with all of this. I am not in favor of “dumping KP”, but if someone seems compelled to offer us what management perceives a better value then do it goddamn it. Ainge or PHX might be motivated to do so.

      I believe the Knick’s management is in the position seeing him every day and knowing his medical records and having the best view of his health and potential than anyone, they should act on their rational beliefs, not on impulses.

    301. bidiong

      If Phil gets what he’s supposedly only willing to take I’d be alright with it. Wouldn’t want to lose KP but 2 high lottery picks and two other decent players is pretty hard to stick your nose up at.

    302. bobneptune

      KP should be a complete player after 2 seasons in the NBA, like every other guy who came into the league at 19. It’s absurd and inexcusable that he’s not, so we essentially are forced to trade him.

      Posted from #neverphil

    303. chrisk06811

      Silky, would you do KP to Bos if they threw in Mr Roboto, skanks , hoes and skallywags? Or, from a separate Chappelle reference, would you hold out for the entire Wu Tang Clan?

    304. BigBlueAL

      You wanna know why people say you can’t rebuild in NY?? Cause idiot fans like some here are trashing KP because at 21 years old and 2 years into his NBA career he isn’t a superstar and trading him wouldn’t be a bad thing. Jesus fucking Christ.

      It’s a good thing the Yankees didn’t give up on Aaron Judge, Aaron Hicks and Luis Severino after their AWFUL seasons last year. But sure let’s get rid of KP cause at 21 and 2 years into his NBA career he hasn’t reached his ceiling yet. Oh and him being a malcontent?? WTF do you expect when he sees a teammate skip a fucking game and not tell anybody about it and he doesn’t even get suspended.

    305. MSA

      Well, maybe Phil could make an agreement with Ainge that if Ball is still available with the 3rd pick the trade is triggered. I would chip KP to Boston faster than he could say “fuck” in Latvian.

    306. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Nate Silver again? What is he some kind of a false god on here? He’s already admitted to putting out polling results based on his own personal biases and has been pathetically wrong recently. He’s saying that there’s a 70% chance that KP stays unless he doesn’t, in which case math is broken again.

    307. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Can any of you ever imagine Derek Jeter walking out on an exit meeting and refusing for months to talk to his coach or GM?

    308. bobneptune

      Bobneptune you are definitely the man.

      Did you work at the Ny Center or the Tracon in Westbury. You told a little fib about controlling 700mph air craft :-)

    309. JK47

      He’s already admitted to putting out polling results based on his own personal biases and has been pathetically wrong recently.

      You know a lot about being pathetically wrong, since you’ve been pathetically wrong about every single thing you’ve ever typed into the little box since the first unfortunate day you arrived here.

      #55WinZ

    310. bidiong

      The thing with “giving up” on KP is I don’t think anyone says they are. The argument is, do you do this year’s 3, next year’s Brooklyn, Brown and Crowder for KP. It has nothing to do with giving up on him.

    311. BigBlueAL

      Sometimes I think my punishment for being lucky enough to be a Yankees fan is that I have to suffer being a Knicks fan.

    312. DRed

      Bob is not arguing that we should give up on KP, he’s arguing that KP isnt good because he’s not taking enough hook shots, and therefore he’s unlikely to develop into a star player. Because he’s playing for Latvia, not doing enough medicine ball exercises.

    313. BigBlueAL

      I would do that Celtics trade but I would still fear that neither of those draft picks would become as good as KP but it’s a risk I could understand taking. But that’s different than trying to justify wanting to trade KP by pointing at all of KP’s weaknesses and making it seem like it’s not a big deal trading him away because he isn’t that good now and God forbid he skipped an exit meeting which apparently is a greater sin than skipping an actual game.

    314. bobneptune

      You wanna know why people say you can’t rebuild in NY?? Cause idiot fans like some here are trashing KP because at 21 years old and 2 years into his NBA career he isn’t a superstar and trading him wouldn’t be a bad thing. Jesus fucking Christ.

      So there is no price that justifies tracing the ws/48 .100 unicorn! Good to know. No one is trashing him…. merely being objective. You are free to think is first 2 seasons put him on a HOF trajectory. Others are free to disagree.

      Again…. no one is calling to Dump him, But 2-3 hi lotto picks plus a starting young NBA player or 2 isn’t dumping.

      But #neverphil’s gonna #neverphil…….

    315. bidiong

      Just put it in a vacuum and look at it. KP is a Hell of an asset. Is the above package worth it or not. That’s it. I think KP is an awesome player but that’s a lot of loot to give up (If that package could even happen) and we constantly talk about how we need talent everywhere.

    316. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @362 NY Center Bob. And many of the high altitude aircraft are cruising at speeds (with a tailwind well in excess of 600 knots, which can exceed 700 mph. I’ve also controlled some aircraft, although infrequently, that broke mach one (1150 mph) such as the Concorde as well as the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels.

    317. danvt

      Kristaps lives in Carmelo’s building. They’re friends. He saw the way Phil did Melo and reacted a bit like a fifth grader. You know, loyal to a friend and not necessarily looking deeper into that friend’s issues. As a 5th grade teacher in this metaphor, Phil did a poor job. The teacher shouldn’t share a students issues publicly. None of this should effect KP’s future however. Knicks have to keep him unless it’s obvious that they win a trade. There is a small opportunity that Ainge is overly impressed with himself after watching the latest E60. No one’s luck lasts forever. Am I sanguine Phil can take him. No I’m not. No I’m not.

    318. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      JK47, will you be wearing pants this evening for the draft? Or do you like it extra drafty on draft night?

    319. rama

      I have no evidence for any of this, but I blame Melo for poisoning Porzingis.

      Same. He has poisoned the well multiple times, and here we are reaping the reward again.

      I don’t want to trade KP, and think he could become a superstar, but it’s reasonable to imagine he will never reach his ceiling because of health issues.

      At the same time, we are asset impoverished, with one of the few assets playing the same position, so the idea of turning a good player into three good players is not stupid.

      Doubt a trade will happen, but roasting Phil for it is just stupid.

      Meanwhile, we need Melo off this team. Poison.

    320. BigBlueAL

      If KP’s rookie season was as bad as Jaylen Brown’s Knick fans would be calling KP a bust already.

    321. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Let’s not forget that Melo must be gone. He is the one who poisoned the well on naive KP and he must not be here under any circumstances.

    322. MSA

      Regardless of what Phil choose to do with KP, you now what will piss me off next season?

      Seeing Melo wearing a Knick Uniform.

    323. bobneptune

      I would do that Celtics trade but I would still fear that neither of those draft picks would become as good as KP but it’s a risk I could understand taking. But that’s different than trying to justify wanting to trade KP by pointing at all of KP’s weaknesses and making it seem like it’s not a big deal trading him away because he isn’t that good now and God forbid he skipped an exit meeting which apparently is a greater sin than skipping an actual game.

      You are correct the skipping the exit meeting should be a virtual non factor unless they know for certain Melo has warped his judgement irrevocably.

      I only point out his foibles to bring some sanity to the discussion. Many here have him projected as a guaranteed greater than Dirk player. I merely point out there are varying areas of serious concern. Serious health concerns. Why has a guy with a multi year anemia problem seemingly fades 25 odd games into a 100 game season two years in a row? That is a legit concern. A 21 year old with Achilles tendonitis? that is a serious concern long term, especially when you are wanting him to gain 30-40 pounds

      These are things that should be factored into any long term equation. Also to be factored into the equation is what players they love that will be available at whatever spots they might pick. Just getting picks isn’t shit…. there need to be players you absolutely love to move this guy.

    324. Z-man

      “Oh and him being a malcontent?? WTF do you expect when he sees a teammate skip a fucking game and not tell anybody about it and he doesn’t even get suspended.”

      BBA,
      I dunno, I expect what Willy (who outplayed Porzingis by a wide margin) did, or what Courtney Lee (one of the classiest players in the NBA) did, or what most “average” second-year players on rookie contracts do, and that is to STFU and go to your exit meeting and voice his displeasure face to face.

    325. JK47

      So, anybody care to make predictions about how the KP trade drama unfolds? I’ll throw in my guess:

      KP to Boston, but for a weaker package than the one Phil is demanding: Crowder, Brown and this year’s #3 pick.

    326. bobneptune

      @362 NY Center Bob. And many of the high altitude aircraft are cruising at speeds (with a tailwind well in excess of 600 knots, which can exceed 700 mph. I’ve also controlled some aircraft, although infrequently, that broke mach one (1150 mph) such as the Concorde as well as the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels.

      Did you work there in the ’80’s. A half dozen guys that worked there were my clients and partners on race horses at Roosevelt Raceway then. I was under the impression only the military flew at that speed above 35,000 feet.

    327. geo

      just curious knickerblogger old timers – what’s the most posts in one day…380 something and counting – and the day is far from over…

      not sure exactly why – but, this little tidbit totally creeps me out:

      Americana band JD & The Straight Shot – featuring vocalist/guitarist Jim Dolan whose voice the New York Post calls “reminiscent of Tom Waits and Randy Newman,”

    328. d-mar

      Boston is not giving us 2 lottery picks, last year’s lottery pick and a solid starter for Kristaps Porzingis. So we can stop discussing that trade right now.

      Danny Ainge is not a complete fucking idiot, just to be clear.

    329. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Bob, they absolutely fly at those speeds. With a strong jetstream (sometimes 150 knots in the winter months) I’ve seen speeds of many airliners of 700 knots, which is over 800 mph. Were any of your clients name Steve T, Bill O or Frank G? And yes I did work in the ’80s, ’90s, up until 2012. Unfortunately I was there for 9/11.

    330. geo

      wasn’t today supposed to be our consolation gift for being so shitty this year…

      wasn’t today supposed to be filled with hope and promise for the future…

      wow, phil’s troll game is mighty strong…

    331. BigBlueAL

      I don’t think KP gets traded, the Knicks draft Frank or Monk (I’d prefer Smith Jr) and hopefully they find a way to get Josh Hart by trading up in the 2nd rd or late into the 1st rd, by all statistical models Hart is a Top 20 prospect but he is “old” since God forbid he went to college for 4 years. If they can pick up a mid-1st rd pick and draft someone like Mitchell that would be nice too.

    332. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      But where did these draft choices come from? What are draft choices? Can Nate Silver tell me please?

    333. wetbandit

      My question is did all this distract Phil from dealing Lee, Kuz or Oquinn for anything? Maybe Ainge tired him out and now he’s napping

    334. the don nelson era

      So Dolan likes having Phil on board because he can just say, “ask Phil,” anytime people give him a hard time about the team. That’s gotta be the entire reason as Phil has NOT been good at his job.

      Do you think Dolan understands that he can do the same thing with a competent GM?

      Masai: We need everything you have for Melo
      Dolan: Ask Donnie

      Masai: We’ll need a 1st for Bargnani
      Dolan: Ask Glen

    335. JK47

      I just hope Phil doesn’t sleep through the Knicks’ allotted time on the draft clock.

      “With the #8 pick in the 2017 NBA draft, the New York Knicks select Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzz from the University of Zzzzzzzz.”

    336. bobneptune

      Bob, they absolutely fly at those speeds. With a strong jetstream (sometimes 150 knots in the winter months) I’ve seen speeds of many airliners of 700 knots, which is over 800 mph. Were any of your clients name Steve T, Bill O or Frank G? And yes I did work in the ’80s, ’90s, up until 2012. Unfortunately I was there for 9/11.

      Yes to Ollie and Frank. Also Aubry, Les K and Gary M. :-) I bought them one horse in 1983 for $33,000 , he won $200,000 in 13 months and we sold him for $75,000 . His name was Fight the Foe. Good times…..

    337. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I worked with Ollie. A great guy. RIP.
      Les K! Wow I haven’t thought of him in like forever. Not sure about Gary M or Aubry. No Steve Tsok…? He was much younger.

    338. d-mar

      I just hope Phil doesn’t sleep through the Knicks’ allotted time on the draft clock.

      “With the #8 pick in the 2017 NBA draft, the New York Knicks select Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzz from the University of Zzzzzzzz.”

      Phil Jackson’s sleeper pick

    339. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      “With the 8th pick in the NBA Draft, the Knicks select… Anthony Bennett of Fenerbahçe.”

    340. Donnie Walsh

      I don’t think KP is necessarily bound for greatness here in New York, but sending him to Boston all but guaranteed his meteoric rise to Superstardom.

    341. Totes McGoats

      The most perplexing thing about all of this KP trade talk is- most of the pro-trade camp talks about KP like he’s a horrible player! That sentiment is flat out ridiculous! The guy averages 20, 7, and 2 blocks in year 2 on raw talent playing with Melo & Rose. No..he’s not all world like I’m sure we all want him to be at this point. But if you’re gonna rationalize trading him, please do it from the position that you can get quite a haul to expedite the rebuild- not from the position that he’s a bad player. Sheesh..the guy hasn’t even grown into his NBA body yet! Kevin Durant is the exception, not the rule. He hadn’t grown into hos NBA body in year 2 and made an insane leap- but his body type was more prepared to play at his position, and his development wasn’t hindered by 2 selfish high usage fellow starters. Though that does not and should not absolve him, it does say alot about what kind of potential we’re looking at. That said- unless you get at least 2 additional lottery picks in this draft, you don’t consider trading him. He is already better than every player in the draft- including Ball. Not by leaps and bounds, but better nonetheless.

    342. JK47

      I don’t think KP is necessarily bound for greatness here in New York, but sending him to Boston all but guaranteed his meteoric rise to Superstardom.

      Never underestimate Dolan’s Razor

    343. BigBlueAL

      The only team who they should trade KP to because of the package they could get from them is Boston and I would hate trading KP there and seeing him blossom and reach the Finals in a Celtics jersey. These proposals from Phoenix are awful and would make me seriously contemplate no longer rooting for the Knicks as long as Phil is in charge.

    344. Donnie Walsh

      If I had to trade KP someplace, I’d probably take the #4, Chriss, and Bledsoe package from Phoenix over all the Celtics picks and players they can muster.

      Better to get a worse return and not have to play in KP’s shadow for the next ten years.

    345. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I would consider #3, #7 and Brown for KP. I’d probably take Jackson, DSJ and Frank with those picks.
      We’d have practically a whole rebuild out of one draft, with Willy.

      Frank
      DSJ
      Jackson
      Brown
      Willy
      Plus whatever we get for Melo.

    346. er

      I have no evidence for any of this, but I blame Melo for poisoning Porzingis.

      I’ve been at KB since 2010. And I’ve always been amazed that people here blame Melo for everything under the sun. Whether it was some kind of caa takeover, Lin taking the Rockets deal…and the list goes on. My only question is when are individuals held responsible for their own actions? Of course melo has been far from perfect but all this blame is lazy and annoying. Idc if I’m the only one who speaks up about it but I will. It’s corny as fuck.it’s not like Melo skipped his exit meeting, hell Melo hasn’t really said anything about Phil. KP has shown great disdain for the guy and still to this day hasn’t talked to him. Melos crime is that he wants to be a knick. And for that I do blame him , the Knicks don’t deserve anyone to want to be here.

    347. er

      When they finally got 20 games of very good point guard play, he intentionally sabotaged the offense because a Chinese guy was getting more ink than him and totally refused to play defense or offense within any coaches system other than when he was totally green lighted to ISOME7O.

      Do you have the stats for when melo came back. The offense was humming.

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