Knicks Morning News (2016.11.16)

  • [NY Newsday] LeBron James critical of Phil Jackson’s ‘posse’ remark
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:10:00 PM)

    LeBron James fired back at Phil Jackson and said he lost all respect for him after the Knicks’ president referred to his friends and business partners as his “posse.”

  • [NY Newsday] Joakim Noah to return to starting lineup against Pistons
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 3:40:00 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek is going back to his regular first unit Wednesday night against the Pistons, but he joked he couldn’t promise he would start that way in the second half.

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Carmelo Anthony weighs in on the Phil/LeBron spat
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:23:55 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony on whether he thought Phil Jackson’s comments were out of line regarding LeBron James and his management team.

  • [SNY Knicks] Lebron criticizes Jackson for referring to business partners as ‘posse’
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 4:15:56 PM)

    Lebron James has lost all respect for Phil Jackson after the Knicks’ team president referred to James’ business partners as his ‘posse.’

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks assign Marshall Plumlee to D-League
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 2:45:42 PM)

    The Knicks have assigned Marshall Plumlee to the D-League, where he is expected to suit up tomorrow night at Greensboro.

  • [SNY Knicks] Can the Knicks get more from Brandon Jennings?
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 1:04:14 PM)

    With the Knicks struggling to begin the season, can they get more out of backup point guard Brandon Jennings?

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah will start — but for how much longer?
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:17:12 PM)

    Joakim Noah is still the starting center — for now. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said Noah will take the opening tap at center against the Pistons on Wednesday but failed to guarantee he would be doing so for the second half. Hornacek said he is intrigued with his new “small-ball’’ lineup and will continue to…

  • [NYPost] The real issue with another Phil Jackson agitation
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:54:46 AM)

    Forget for a second whether Phil Jackson understands how loaded the word “posse” is, and that it was almost certain to bother LeBron James – and most NBA players – when Jackson used it in an interview to describe James’ closest associates. A full lifetime in and around professional basketball suggests – insists – that…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo takes LeBron’s side: I’d be angry with Phil Jackson, too
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:55:04 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony has sided with buddy LeBron James over his team’s president. Anthony said he is not surprised at James’ beef with Phil Jackson in calling his handlers “a posse,’’ adding he would be offended, too, if his entourage got tagged by Jackson with that word. Anthony also said he can’t “understand” why Jackson is…

  • [NYPost] LeBron James outraged at Phil Jackson’s ‘posse’ comment
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7:39:14 AM)

    The only good news for the Knicks is when LeBron James next becomes a free agent in the summer of 2020, team president Phil Jackson’s contract will have expired. Jackson has burned another bridge as his inept presidency took another turn with James responding negatively to the Zen Master’s use of the term “posse’’ when describing…

  • [NYTimes] LeBron James Fires Back at Phil Jackson for ‘Posse’ Comment
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:43:49 PM)

    When the Knicks’ president used “posse” to describe James’s friends who travel and work with him, James took offense, citing the racial connotation of the word.

  • [NYTimes] Everyone Shoots 3s Now. Even Brook Lopez.
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 4:36:03 PM)

    After taking a total of seven 3-point attempts in his first six N.B.A. seasons, the Nets center has hoisted up 38 this season, in only eight games.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Suns’ Devin Booker Has a Knowledgeable Workout Guru: His Father
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 12:00:24 PM)

    Booker’s father, Melvin, had a productive pro basketball career that included stops in Italy, Turkey and Russia, as well as 32 games in the N.B.A.

  • [ESPN] Wednesday’s Knicks News: Joakim Noah will start against Pistons
    (Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:55:08 AM)

    Wednesday’s Knicks News: Joakim Noah will start against Pistons

  • [ESPN] Rose seeking $70K in court costs from accuser
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:12:16 PM)

    Rose seeking $70K in court costs from accuser

  • [ESPN] Melo: Jackson’s comment ‘hit home’ to LeBron
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 3:24:15 PM)

    Melo: Jackson’s comment ‘hit home’ to LeBron

  • [ESPN] LeBron rips ‘posse’ remark, mulls Phil’s intent
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 12:33:48 PM)

    LeBron rips ‘posse’ remark, mulls Phil’s intent

  • [ESPN] Tuesday’s Knicks News: Joakim Noah benched in wins over Mavs
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:13:19 AM)

    Tuesday’s Knicks News: Joakim Noah benched in wins over Mavs

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony, LeBron not happy with Jackson’s use of ‘posse’
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:01:00 PM)

    Phil Jackson set a new world record this week for alienating NBA superstars.

  • [NYDN] Derrick Rose seeking payment from rape accuser
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 3:40:03 PM)

    Rose was cleared in his civil trial, and now he’s seeking damages.

  • [NYDN] LeBron James takes Phil Jackson to task for ‘posse’ comments
    (Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:48:27 AM)

    Consider this bridge burned.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    110 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.11.16)”

    1. So the right move for Phil right now is to admit ignorance, apologize and move on. If he doesn’t then it means he intended to offend. With that, he risks losing Carmelo Anthony’s respect and that could be a cancer. Yes, even if he does apologize and admit ignorance, some will criticize that as being fraudulent.

      What I’m wondering is if LeBron was pushed by his …. um, business associates, to make a statement. Did he speak spontaneously or was this a plan? And if it was a plan, what’s the agenda?

      And a bit of commentary. I definitely lean left, but there needs to be a curb on political correctness. There’s a difference between referring to someone’s associates as a “posse” and using the n-word. Complaining about the first equates it with the second and it mitigates the offensiveness of the latter. Smart people know the difference but most of this nation is not smart. This event is making a mountain out of a mole hill. I had no idea that the word was offensive and if I was in Phil’s shoes I might have said the same thing to sound cool. Aging white men cannot, of course, sound cool. It’s against some unwritten code, right? So while Melo can say something like “Hey LeBron, how’re you and your posse?” I cannot because people of my color are not allowed to say the same things as a young person of a different color. Is that how it is?

    2. Yes that’s how our politically correct society says it is. But screw them and the posse they rode in with.

    3. Hopefully Melo demands a trade, because he’s not very good.

      I think Lebron is upset that Phil essentially called him a coddled prima donna, which he probably is on some level. The best player in the league tells you he wants to spent the night in Cleveland-what are you supposed to do? Tell him no? He’s more important to the franchise than you are.

    4. I just want PJ to apologize for his offensive language so we can get over this and get back to losing.

    5. I want to see who will have a bad game tonight so we can all muse about he is washed up/never was any good, because that’s how we roll. lol

      Note: After typing but before sending I wonder if “how we roll” is not some language that perhaps my adult Caucasian male self should not be using. If so I apologize in advance. :-)

    6. @1 I think your analysis is way off. Again it’s not really even a racial thing but a disrespect thing that CAN be linked to race. You don’t call a group of professionals anything but that. The word posse isn’t even the real issue. It’s the fact that Phil felt the need to address these professional men as hangers on

    7. I wonder if “how we roll” is not some language that perhaps my adult Caucasian male self should not be using.

      Thank God Jeremy Lin is no longer a Kick!

    8. I have to say, it’s much more fun talking about Jackson than it was discussing Walsh, Grunfeld or Isaiah, or probably any other recent Knick GM

    9. So far in his career, Grant’s always played well when’s he’s started. If Jerian’s play continues and Justin’s 3FG% drops, we’ll be watching Grantland and Holiday on Ice in late December. If Phil was hell-bent on acquiring Noah, maybe he should have kept Grant and Lopez, dumped KOQ and Calderon, signed Noah and Lee and Jennings. Noah and Lopez each play 24mpg, giving us strong defensive anchors and elite pick-setters on offense. Playing KP at the 5 will cut two or more years off his career; try boxing out guys who weigh 60lbs more than you on every possession night in and night out. Give it a couple of more years before playing him at the 5.

    10. There is no point to having both Lopez & Noah. It’s good to let KP play C against teams like Dallas. Melo plays in the post on offense and Porzingis pulls his man out into space.

    11. Yeah, let’s focus on Grant’s one good performance this season and ignore his .458 TS%. (Holiday’s is .521 FWIW)

    12. Drummond is playing tonight. It should be interesting to see how the Knicks play. I think if the Knicks want to match up with Drummond they have to play Noah and sit KP while Melo plays the 4. I doubt Marcus Morris and his .506 TS% has a repeat of the performance he had against us the first time, so it should be a closer game. If we can stop Detroit’s wings this time around we should win.

      Noah and Porzingis are definitely letting me down. They are supposed to be the lynchpin of a top 10 defense and neither guy has been playing well. Maybe we should play Noah at the 4 and KP at the 5 defensively to take advantage of their mobility and rim protection respectively. Hopefully the Knicks pull this one out.

    13. SVG has the Pistons playing very well on the defensive end. They’re 3rd in the league in defensive eFG% and 7th in FT/FGA, which tells you they’re good at contesting shots without fouling. The Pistons’ offense is brutally bad though without Reggie Jackson, as the Ish Smith/Beno Udrih tandem strikes fear in the heart of exactly nobody.

      This looks like this should be a W for the Knicks at home, because the Pistons lack the kind of dynamic guard that gives the Knicks fits. In their loss to the Pistons earlier this season, the Knicks defended extremely poorly and got torched by Tobias Harris, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Marcus Morris. Should be interesting to see if the Knicks’ defense can improve in this one.

    14. Playing KP at the 5 will cut two or more years off his career

      Wildly speculative statement based on negative worldview and not backed up by a shred of evidence other than Knicks.

    15. I guess the posse is no longer in effect?

      I think Donald Trump grabbed it, or is that something else…

    16. @6 ER. I get it. And there was “insult intended” but it is, in no manner, shape or form racial. The term “posse” is derogatory because it’s calling out LeBron’s pals (use whatever word you don’t find racially offensive). They are hangers-on. They are guys who hang around LeBron just like Turtle hung around with Vinny Chase. Phil was talking about how LeBron made demands of Pat Riley to get his pals good seats at games and other stuff. Yes, it attacked them.

      What LeBron did was deflect. He changed the narrative and backed up his pal. But it had nothing to do with race. Of that I’m convinced.

      My problem is the ease with which people can turn something into a racial issue. Like I said previously, I’m progressive and all about equality. What this does is trivialize the real complaints.

      @17 – I don’t put this down as a win for the Knicks. I put it down as a toss-up game. Detroit is exactly the type of team that I see battling the Knicks for the 7th and 8th seeds. We need to beat them because (in my mind) this is a double value game. Games against teams like Cleveland and Philadelphia (best and worst) are only single value games because we’re not really in direct competition with them for playoff spots. This game means a lot today. We could turn around in March and say, “Damn, I wish we won that game”. I hope we can say “I’m glad we won that game” instead.
      @16 – I’m with you about the Noah-KP dynamic. As someone pointed out yesterday, it took Rolo some time to gel with the team. I’m hoping it happens soon.

    17. I think Rolo had a shoulder injury that hampered him early in the season. But I am sure it takes a bit of time to fine tune things.

    18. Let’s see the Knicks win their next 2 games and generate a little bit of optimism among Knicks fans. No reason why they shouldn’t beat Detroit at home without their starting PG, and Washington has been struggling bigly and dealing with injuries also.

      I’d be very disappointed if we don’t win both games, but of course disappointment is a big part of being a Knicks fan.

    19. @massive, why play Noah at the 4? Noah is already a net minus offensive player at the 5. At the 4 he’s horrifically bad. If you’re going to play KP at the 5 there’s absolutely no reason Noah should be on the court.

    20. There is no point to having both Lopez & Noah.

      There is when Noah is only a part-time player at this stage of his career and our defense stinks when he’s out of the game.

      Yeah, let’s focus on Grant’s one good performance this season and ignore his .458 TS%. (Holiday’s is .521 FWIW)

      I was referring to the games at the end of last season when he started. Grant WS/48=.174 Holiday=.045 so far. Better hope Justin’s 3FG% doesn’t regress to his career average.

      Wildly speculative statement based on negative worldview and not backed up by a shred of evidence other than Knicks.

      Actually I was being optimistic there. More likely his career ends like yao ming. There’s just no way his knees and ankles would hold up under that kind of sustained pressure night in and night out. Certain match-ups it’s OK, most no but hey, let’s just focus on the short-term and maximizing Noah and Melo’s window, right?

    21. so, it looks like the pistons are really weak on the road (1-5), and – we’re not as bad at home…hopefully we can keep them from destroying us on the boards and we’ll pick up the w…this does though kind of feel like an important game for us (for the reason’s jk47 mentioned in @17)…

      supposedly phil is trying to cover his butt by insinuating the the term posse is benign:

      Phil Jackson’s first public acknowledgement of the reaction to his use of the word ‘posse’ was a retweet of a Knicks executive. Knicks’ VP of Player Personnel Clarence Gaines Jr. tweeted about the Posse Foundation, a group dedicated to helping high school students pursue a college education yesterday. Jackson retweeted the note this morning without comment.

      i don’t know about that – i think er (@6) had the right of it…it’s an unprofessional put down about lebron and his associates professionalism…

      cuz i basically only watch “sports” news (i have little to no clue what’s going on in the world usually/thankfully) – there’s been some other examples from the early 2000’s where he basically sounded like an ignorant redneck from out in the sticks of montana (not that folks from montana can’t be “enlightened”, just not phil), where he was discussing modern nba players as gangsters and thugs…

      you would hope he would learn a lesson from this and just keep his mouth shout and do his job (a whole other topic of debate) – unless dolan “gags” him, i don’t see that happening…

      i think i need to change my ID to: “Nothing Easy for the Knicks”

    22. Defensively Joakim Noah has the ability to slide his feet and stay in front of guys that KP doesn’t have. It makes more sense to let Noah cover 4s defensively and to let KP patrol the paint as a five.

    23. Grant’s WS/48 is so high because of his ORtg/DRtg differential, which has more to do with the strength of his teammates than it does with him. His numbers suck.

    24. Grant’s WS/48 is so high because of his ORtg/DRtg differential, which has more to do with the strength of his teammates than it does with him. His numbers suck.

      His WS48 is also high because he has lots of steals and a high turnover/assist ratio. He has 7 steals in 76 minutes and 10 assists with only one turnover. It’s a tiny sample size, so there’s a lot of noise in there with the signal, but his peripheral numbers other than shooting have been quite good.

    25. Posse is now a 4 letter word.
      Everyone is offended about something now a days. It’s ridiculous. I’m offended by everyone being offended do easily. I feel disrespected.

    26. @28 I see what you’re saying but we have other guys that can move their feet defensively guarding 4s while not being among the worst offensive players in the league at that position in Melo, lance Thomas… that’s it… our roster kinda blows, huh?

      In the short term I think it’s still good we have Noah on the team to limit wear on KP but, shit, were paying a guy 18 mil a year for 4 years for that?

    27. The timing of Phil’s posse comment couldn’t have been worse. Phil should have spoken out before the election and shut up after it. America just elected as POTUS a guy who 65% of the voters believe is a racist. Bron campaigned for HRC and watched his home state of Ohio go for DJT by a wide margin. It’s ironic that high-profile Cuban spoke up even though Nowitzki is a white German but high-profile Jax lost his voice when he owes his fame and fortune to MJ/Pippen/Kobe/Shaq. Instead, for the second time, he uses the word “posse” in connection with LBJ in a derogatory comment. Context matters in evaluating the two comments where he used the word. I don’t believe for one second Phil is a racist but he’s looking more and more like a clueless guy who’s led a charmed existence, just like the guy who will occupy the White House in January.

    28. Lance Thomas does nothing well, though. At least Noah rebounds like Ben Wallace and passes better than anyone on the roster. Despite his struggles putting the ball in the cup (mainly because he refuses to shoot and there are zero plays ran for him), Joakim Noah has made the most of his minutes. If we can maximize Noah and Porzingis on the defensive end it will boost our defense. Like it or not, KP and Noah are the best defenders on the roster. We need both of them to play if we want to have a good defense.

    29. If we’re a roughly 500ish team, even like a 35 win team, we should beat a decent but flawed team like Detroit at home.

    30. If we’re a roughly 500ish team, even like a 35 win team, we should beat a decent but flawed team like Detroit at home.

      Yep, pretty much.

    31. I’ll say another thing about Phil Jackson: he needs this situation here to turn around real quick and for this team to start winning lots of games because the perception of him as a joke GM is starting to catch on. Much of the commentary about “possegate” makes reference to the fact that the Knicks are treading water and that Phil seems like an out-of-touch old coot angrily yelling at clouds. If this team plods along to 37 wins or something this season that will mean we’re three years in and Phil has not improved the on-court performance in any meaningful way.

    32. lol @ calling a group of self-made guys managing hundreds of millions of dollars of assets in multiple industries a posse. Yep, not at all diminishing in anyway.

      Anyway, on a real substantive note, i have a question for yall:

      In baseball, the sabrmetric community has an idea of when in a given season (if at all) certain stats “stabilize” and gain useful value. For example, Batting Average on Balls in Play actually takes like 800 or so at bats to stabilize, so reading into that stat for rookies is usually not helpful because they don’t have 800 major league at bats (though it’s complicated by the somewhat predictive value of minor league BABIP, but you get the point). Meanwhile, Home Runs per Fly ball stabilizes quicker, as does pull rate, etc., so you can use those stats to see if players’ changed approaches are for real or just blips.

      Has anyone read about when things like rim protection FG%, Free Throw Rate, drives/game, etc., become stabilized within a season (and thus useful to compare to past seasons) ? I have yet to find this, but then again I’ve barely looked. There’s no go-to site like fangraphs with an equivalent combination of adv stats + tons of great writers for the NBA that I know of.

    33. The advanced stats community in basketball doesn’t have its shit together that way. There is still a lot to learn about the game, and the only thing that seems to be universally agreed upon is the Four Factors.

    34. As a cynic, I’m starting to think Phil is building the case for Dolan to fire him. I think he may want out, but wants to get every possible dime from the organization. You have to think Dolan is not liking this bad pub…

    35. One semi-hopeful thing is that apparently Lance Thomas has been dealing with multiple lower leg injuries including plantar fasciitis in both feet, and that he’s been dealing with the foot issues the whole season. Maybe his shooting will come back if given a few weeks off.

    36. The advanced stats community in basketball doesn’t have its shit together that way. There is still a lot to learn about the game, and the only thing that seems to be universally agreed upon is the Four Factors.

      yeah of course. Every year i read interesting papers which make it to the big MIT thing on bball analytics, but it’s just weird that no one has shared info about when certain stats become useful in a given season. Like i see people on P&T citing the knicks ORTG with Noah on the court (good), or his giving up a 62% fg% at the rim (bad), but i am pretty damn sure both of those stats are useless at the current point of the season. Guys like greg monroe are near tops in rim protection and guys normally near the top are still @ the bottom. knowing when they become stable (if they do at all in a given year) would just be a useful talking point in casual discussion.

    37. @33

      Completely disagree about the timing. This is perfect timing. If it can get Carmelo Activist traded then great job. Maybe we can get some decent talent for Melo. And Phil Jackson does not need to apologize for anything. He did nothing wrong. His goal was to make a slight jab at Lebron, and he succeeded. Except Lebron took it like a baby and played the all-too-convenient perfunctory race card. I’m tired of people crying immense racial injustice when they feel slightly offended.

      Leave it to professional athletes to make everything about race. I think we need players who play, and not constantly whine about social issues they are clueless about, or become offended by anything and everything.

      First Colin Kaepernick’s idiocy, and now Lebron’s and Melo’s. The NBA will lose viewership like the NFL if this nonsense continues.

    38. “Lol black men can’t have ideas of their own they’re athletes hurr durr”

    39. Except Lebron took it like a baby and played the all-too-convenient perfunctory race card. I’m tired of people crying immense racial injustice when they feel slightly offended.

      Yeah, sure, LeBron had no reason to be upset that Phil Jackson, out of nowhere, basically called him a pampered diva who wants to hang out with his “posse” to the detriment of his team. And I guess it’s okay for Phil to run his mouth and say whatever stupid shit he wants about the most high-profile player on the planet, but when it’s time for LeBron to speak his mind, he should just keep his big crybaby diva mouth shut. Because fuck HIS freedom of speech.

    40. @44

      Because America is a racist fuckin’ country, bro. If you think a flag ceremony is more important than the right to peacefully protest against systematic oppression and documented — we’re talking fucking totally incontrovertible — proof that black men are being summarily executed by law enforcement, or you think it’s okay for a white business executive to refer to a group of black businessmen as a “posse,” you are so willfully ignorant that I’d like to vom all over your American flag Budweiser t-shirt so you can really feel my pain in arguing with ‘Murican geniuses like you.

      You’re so offended that other people are offended by your shitty, dog-whistle rhetoric. Luckily, future generations won’t be marred by the same Fox News vitriolic dumbassery as you, and for that I am thankful.

    41. I think this “posse” issue is so funny. I think any member this generation of NBA players being offended at the word’s usage is funnier when its a word they cultivated as part of the American basketball vernacular. ESPN, in its rush to kiss Lebron’s ass, has done a fine job of magnifying this issue. They don’t give two shits about racialized terminology in sports – just protecting their big asset.

    42. Oh, there’s the liberal media bias!

      “Yes, Ras1980 here, calling in from Rush Limbaugh’s asshole. Yes, hello, I’d like to weigh in on this issue about the blacks being able to use words that I’m not allowed to use… it’s unfair, you see…”

    43. LOL. Only a dope would think I am a right-winger, let alone a Rush Limbaugh fan. Hell, I am probably to the left of every body else on this board, which is why I can see past the dangerous stupidity of Lebron’s little game.

    44. Not to mention that even if Phil were using the comments as a way to start pushing Melo out of town, that’s a pretty fucking dumb way to go about doing it.

      How bout sitting down with him at one of those dinners and saying, look Melo we love you but it’s in everyone’s best interests for us to trade you to a good team… Raptors, Celts, Thunder all seem like good landing spots who have the assets to make it work.

    45. I think possygate has been way overblown, but heck if Jowles doesn’t infect me with a fit of the giggles at my desk

    46. @44 & @47 – When there’s an argument, both sides have valid points and the answer is often in the middle.

      Disappointed goes too far but there’s truth to it. That’s a reason why things have only gotten worse for blacks and other minorities. Frankly, I reject the attitude that we should not be sensitive.

      The Honorable one – You need to understand that while you might place a connotation on a word, the deliverer of the statement might not have a clue about what it intones. These are colloquialisms and by constantly adding new words to the list of taboo phrases, you water down the value of the criticism. It just becomes more noise when folks need to consult a manual to decide what’s a good word and what’s not.

      I’ve run into this before, when I innocently used a phrase that someone took offense to. The short version of it goes as follows: As an IT manager I needed a special PC to do some stuff. Since our computer room operators needed one too, and since we only needed it one day a week, I offered to put it in the computer room so that the operators could use it. Note that this was a long time ago and PCs were ultra expensive. When a member of my staff went to use it, he found that the operators had locked him out of the PC. I went to talk to the operators and said “I put this here so you can use it, but my people need to be able to get to it when they have to do their job.” This sentence resulted in a firestorm. Why? Because I used the phrase “My people”. I was told “They are not your property!”. I was only able to calm things down when I brought in this book: https://www.amazon.com/My-People-Story-Abba-Eban/dp/0394727592 and explained that for me the phrase is a phrase of inclusion and not ownership. Different people with different upbringings will assign different connotation to phrases.

    47. Phil Jackson says condescending shit about LeBron James for no reason.

      LeBron James says “fuck that.”

      It’s clearly LeBron James’ fault.

    48. There was a take on this board that should’ve settled this “debate” about 100 posts ago. It’s not that the word possy is racially charged. It’s rather that the usage of the word delegitimized Lebron’s manager, agent, whatever, etc without any clear reason for doing so.

      The lack of a clear reason for that disrespect makes it vague enough to be ascribed to racism rather than some other weird Phil reason. And that’s where Phil done goofed.

      Doesn’t necessarily make it racist, but we should all be able to agree that it was poor choice of words to some degree

    49. “you are so willfully ignorant that I’d like to vom all over your American flag Budweiser t-shirt so you can really feel my pain in arguing with ‘Murican geniuses like you.”
      “You’re so offended that other people are offended by your shitty, dog-whistle rhetoric. Luckily, future generations won’t be marred by the same Fox News vitriolic dumbassery as you, and for that I am thankful.”
      Jowles — Any particular reason why you are totally incapable of disagreeing with someone without resorting to cursing and name-calling?

    50. Because I don’t care about you, johnno. That’s something you’ll learn to deal with.

    51. @45 Are you part of Lebron’s posse? Never said or implied that LMAO. Athletes or anyone whether black or white can say whatever the hell they want to. I’m concerned about them saying it without taking due diligence when it comes to understanding what they are talking about (i.e. Kaepernick not even being a registered voter and still imo disrespecting the country to protest something he probably did zero research on) about it and thus I will exercise my freedom of speech to call them out on it.

      @46 No, not fuck his freedom of speech. He can say as much moronic things as he wants to. But I also have the freedom of speech to call him out on it. Catch my drift? “Posse” has no racist connotations until Lebron and his goons say it does? No. Is the word “goons” goink to become a ‘racist’ word from this point forward because someone does not understand it’s common definition?

      @47 @49 If you want to call self-defense “…proof of systematic execution of black men by law enforcement in America”, as was in the Michael Brown case and many other high-profile cases, you should stick to analyzing basketball.

      @48 Good point.

    52. Oh, Michael Brown’s case is proof that black men deserve to be shot. Oh, okay.

    53. I can say with certainty that I am the furthest to the left of anyone on this board insofar as I think that the very existence of the current Knicks ownership constitutes a watertight argument for the abolition of private property

    54. @60 Another one accusing me of things I clearly didn’t type or say. Talk about a barrage of constant race-baiting. I will say that a police officer deserves to defend their life and the lives of innocent bystanders when it’s clearly in danger though.

    55. Has anyone read about when things like rim protection FG%, Free Throw Rate, drives/game, etc., become stabilized within a season (and thus useful to compare to past seasons) ? I have yet to find this, but then again I’ve barely looked. There’s no go-to site like fangraphs with an equivalent combination of adv stats + tons of great writers for the NBA that I know of.

      I vaguely remember reading something that said boxscore stats start getting useful around 3 or 400 minutes into a season.

      Those other stats are pretty new to the public, I dont know if anyone has tried to answer your question. I haven’t seen anything

    56. make it rain jowles…make it rain…remind me not to give you a reason to read too deep in to me – you’re pretty good at it…

    57. Yet you still fail to see, for example, how calling a woman a bitch is very different from Bitch Magazine using the word.

      Actually, my entire point is that there is a difference based on intent. You’re arguing with someone else here. Essentially, the argument I am arguing against is that Phil’s racist for using accurately using a common part of basketball parlance because he’s an old white man.

      But don’t let specifics get in the way of a good rant.

    58. I’m just glad that Phil Jackson has brought such gravitas and stability to the Knicks franchise, and that the Knicks are totes no longer a mediocre laughingstock. The excellent results on the court are second only to the stellar results in the court of public opinion, where the Knicks are once again revered as one of the NBA’s most respected franchises and a desirable destination for all of the game’s top free agents.

      Thanks, Phil! #changetheculture

    59. So what does everyone think about how a team of 5 Tyson Chandlers would do against a team of 5 Joakim Noahs against a team of 5 Derrick Roses?

    60. I personally think that the team of 5 Derrick Roses would thrive due to the massive spacing having five elite rim drivers would create, along with their undeniable and well-known skill in coordinating various group activities. Truly greater than the sum of their parts.

    61. Please don’t compare Lebron’s stupidity with Kaepernick’s protest. I really hope people in this country are nuanced enough to see the difference between someone taking a political stand at great personal/professional cost to address an injustice in our society and some athlete politicizing a diss from a rival GM/coach.

    62. @71 See post #62’s last sentence. And no, I will continue to criticize Lebron, Kaepernick, and others bringing unneeded racial divisiveness into sports when there’s no need for it there.

    63. And no, I will continue to criticize Lebron, Kaepernick, and others bringing unneeded racial divisiveness into sports when there’s no need for it there.

      Oh, yes, the ol’ “STICK TO SPORTS.”

      Scorching hot take.

      Sports are affected by structural racism just like any other institution in our society. The divides that racism causes are already there.

    64. You know, it’d be better if those blacks never played sports at all–too much racial divisiveness!

    65. Because I don’t care about you, johnno. That’s something you’ll learn to deal with.

      So Johnno should learn to STFU when you curse and Lebron has every right to be offended?

      Double standards?

    66. So what does everyone think about how a team of 5 Tyson Chandlers would do against a team of 5 Joakim Noahs against a team of 5 Derrick Roses?

      Depends. How many of them keep their mouths shut about racism so that white people don’t have to confront it?

    67. Not one innocent person deserves to be shot, but imho it’s important to understand what is actually happening as opposed to what is being reported.

      1. Police officers occasionally gun down innocent blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, and every other group under the sun on our streets in the line of duty.

      2. The shootings are sometimes white on black, black on white, black on Asian, white on Asian, black on black, white on white, and every other combination under the sun.

      3. Statistically, incidents like this are more likely to occur in high crime areas, where unfortunately, for reasons that have nothing to with policing, there tend to be greater concentrations of poor minorities. So even in a zero racism world, we would see more incidents like this per capita in poor black neighborhoods than let’s say Hollywood.

      4. Racism definitely plays a role in some of these incidents, but nowhere near all of them. Many, if not most, are the result of errors in recruitment, errors in training, police officer burnout, or some combination of all three.

      IMHO, we would be way better off as a society if the media reported accurate, unbiased, unspun stats (with a case by case analysis as to reason) so we could all examine the extent of the problem and the reasons. I see misleading stats ALL THE TIME. Unfortunately, politics and statistical ignorance have creeped into this issue.

      Even 1 case of an innocent man being gunned down is too much, but without accurate data, people come away from the news believing that it’s all racism, it’s widespread, and it’s only happening to black people. That’s simply not true. The mainstream news is also not helping by only reporting the most inflamatory cases. That’s why people riot instead of working with the police, community leaders, government, etc.. to try to fix the problem for everyone. We have to get those racist cops off the streets before they do something and behind bars if they do. But do it RIGHT!

    68. @74 Protesting an unneeded war and protesting against the police defending themselves are two different things. Nice strawman.

      Sports are affected by structural racism just like any other institution in our society

      How so? Is the NBA being about 75% black players evidence of structural racism? Or is it because black players tend to play basketball better? I think it’s because black players tend to play better. But please do elaborate on how there is systematic racism in sports right now. I want your take on it, smart guy.

      It’s so easy; anyone can make systematic racism and oppression out of thin air these days.

      @76 Are you Jowles’ brother or something? Or his backup account?

    69. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854

      “There is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

    70. MMM, possegate continues.

      There’s no go-to site like fangraphs with an equivalent combination of adv stats + tons of great writers for the NBA that I know of.

      There isn’t. I actually don’t know that there is a website of ANY kind as good as Fangraphs at covering a niche. It’s that amazing. They have high quality material every single weekday on that site. The fact that employees keep getting poached to work in front offices is a testament to that fact.

      To your point, it really is a striking contrast to wander through the verdant pastures of baseball analysis at FG after years of combing basketball reference and trying to figure things out myself. It really does make you realize just how little is known and quantified about basketball.

    71. Right, there was no racial component at all to anything Muhammad Ali ever said or did.

      You’re an idiot. Straight up.

    72. Disappointed Knicks Fan,

      You don’t think systemic racism plays a factor in a league where a disproportionate number of owners, team presidents, GMs, coaches, and agents are white? Systemic racism doesn’t have to be created out of thin air because it permeates nearly every institution in America. You can argue that it permeates every institution when you account for the fact that school segregation and housing segregation and discrimination shaped the lives and opportunities of millions of Americans, creating inequitable distribution of wealth and opportunity. (btw, stratomatic, these policies are a large reason why communities of color have greater concentration of poverty, and yes crime)

      Finally regarding Phil, for what I hope is the last time, the comments are offensive because Phil unnecessarily disparaged a group of black businessman. Other people have said it better than me, but Phil could be racially insensitive without intending it and LeBron isn’t at fault for believing that the remarks would be different if he were a white player.

    73. On a lighter note, a friend offered me an extra ticket to tonight’s Knicks game out of the blue. Maybe the “basketball gods” are rewarding me for getting off the sidelines and finally joining the KB discourse.

    74. TIL that racism doesn’t exist because sometimes black cops kill white civilians

      oh ok

    75. if you’re old enough to be on this website here – chances are you’re pretty much stuck/locked in with your “world view”…

      going back and forth to try to “convince” someone else of your view is pretty much like howling at the moon – and, the moon don’t care…although, i imagine it does feel somewhat self satisfying to get affirmation from others that they share a portion of your view…

      let’s all focus all our energy on sending good vibes to the knicks tonight so hopefully they can get off to a decent start this game (has that even happened this year? – seems like every game their down by 10 or so sometime in the first half)…i remember reading the ID of that new poster yesterday (No Knicks Lead is Safe) and thinking to myself – have we even had a lead (to lose) in the first half this year…

      i’m predicting a good game from big willy tonight…hopefully we’ll get a little Kuz too…

    76. You nitwits who are complaining about “political correctness” are in for a long four years, considering the country just elected a flat out racist who is beloved by the KKK. We’re going to have to relitigate the 60’s all over again, this time with camera phones and social media. You buttercups might want to start sucking it up.

    77. @84 Ad-hominem does not make arguments stronger. Or will you present a study to say otherwise.

      @82 There’s at least a slight racial bias in everything. That however doesn’t make the vast majority of police shootings of unarmed black men any less justified.

    78. Geo,

      I’m inclined to agree about world views. I actually don’t believe online debates are a good way to change minds, but I felt I had to chime in yesterday after I saw a series of comments get out of hand (and trend dangerously close to offensive territory).

      I also hope that we get out to a strong start tonight. Oh, what I’d give for a wire to wire victory.

    79. On a lighter note, a friend offered me an extra ticket to tonight’s Knicks game out of the blue. Maybe the “basketball gods” are rewarding me for getting off the sidelines and finally joining the KB discourse.

      Have fun! Hopefully it’s a Knick win!

    80. howdy no safe lead…i was thinking, that’s a bit of a glass half empty kinda monikor – but, very apropos for a new yorker…

      I’m soooooooo jealous – have fun…i hope it’s a great game for you…forget that wire to wire stuff – you need to squirm a little to get that full knickerbocker experience…

    81. I’m soooooooo jealous – have fun…i hope it’s a great game for you…forget that wire to wire stuff – you need to squirm a little to get that full knickerbocker experience…

      The Knicks lost close games the last two times I went to the Garden, but yeah, the electricity when it is close late is crazy awesome. Unless you have asshole fans around you then it is kind of rough, like the fans who looked like they were going to fight a lady in a Durant jersey and saying some things that were, well, inappropriate. But that’s an exception – normally close games are amazing.

      One of my favorite close games that I attended was their double overtime win over Phoenix during Larry Brown’s season, when David Lee played the freakin’ three!

    82. Jowles — re: your response to me @58 — I quoted your rant to Disappointed Knicks Fan and asked why you have to curse and name-call whenever you disagree with someone and your response was that it was because you don’t care about me. That is about as coherent and logical as most of the stuff that you post here. By the way, you seem to be unaware of this but inserting the word “fucking” before a statement doesn’t make the statement any more or less true.

    83. I went to a game during the height of the starbury debacle and managed to work my way down to about 5 or 6 rows behind the bench and screamed curses at Zeke for like 4 minutes and it was awesome

    84. totally unrelated brian – but i feel compelled to ask – what’s your favorite mag/title? (say elseworlds, say elseworlds :-)

      I went to a game during the height of the starbury debacle and managed to work my way down to about 5 or 6 rows behind the bench and screamed curses at Zeke for like 4 minutes and it was awesome

      that’s a big check on the bucket list right there…

    85. @101

      When Cronin said “Have fun! Hopefully it’s a Knick win!”

      I immediately thought: “not only is this Cronin’s first reply to me, but it had his trademark jinx to boot!” ;-)

    86. I immediately thought: “not only is this Cronin’s first reply to me, but it had his trademark jinx to boot!” ;-)

      oh yeah – that’s a serious ny vibe going on there – “hope for the best, but, expect the worse”…

      recently flew in to white plains a couple of months or so ago – hadn’t been back in many years…it felt so good to hear people speaking/yelling in the terminal…definitely felt like home…

      out here in cali – it’s dang near impossible to tell what anyone’s really thinking or feeling…

    87. Weighing in on Possegate, for those who think the term Posse offensive, what word should Jackson have used instead? If he’d called the group LeBron’s Hangers-on, they would have been just as offensive to them if not more so. If he’d called them something like LeBron’s friends and business associates who travel with him, that would have been maybe less inflammatory, but doesn’t sound like spoken English to me and points up the need for a word.

      The other thing is that no one has denied the actual facts of the story, or even discussed them, as far as I can tell. I would think LeBron’s happy about that.

    88. Weighing in on Possegate, for those who think the term Posse offensive, what word should Jackson have used instead? If he’d called the group LeBron’s Hangers-on, they would have been just as offensive to them if not more so. If he’d called them something like LeBron’s friends and business associates who travel with him, that would have been maybe less inflammatory, but doesn’t sound like spoken English to me and points up the need for a word.

      The other thing is that no one has denied the actual facts of the story, or even discussed them, as far as I can tell. I would think LeBron’s happy about that.

      He could’ve not gossiped about a guy he apparently has no relationship with whatsoever. Like the other 29 GMs don’t do.

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