Knicks Morning News (2016.08.10)

  • [NYPost] Pulse of the NBA player? Derek Fisher ‘not my type of guy’
    (Tuesday, August 09, 2016 10:35:15 AM)

    Former NBA forward Stephen Jackson weighed in on the feud between Derek Fisher and Matt Barnes, and he is decidedly not on Fisher’s side. “First, I don’t talk to Derek Fisher,” Jackson told Hoops Hype. “He’s not my type of guy. Matt Barnes is my buddy. I really don’t believe in playing with a guy … You know…

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony passes Jordan on USA Basketball Olympic scoring list in win
    (Tuesday, August 09, 2016 8:46:10 AM)

    The New York Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony passed Michael Jordan for third-most points in USA Basketball Olympic history in Team USA’s 113-69 win over Venezuela on Monday.

  • [NY Newsday] Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe like what they see in new Knicks
    (Tuesday, August 09, 2016 7:20:00 PM)

    Walt Frazier stood at the mic, and the sharp-dressed man of teal introduced his former Knicks backcourt partner, Earl Monroe. The 71-year-old Hall of Famers were together again Tuesday at Clyde Frazier’s Wine and Dine in Manhattan to promote their latest dish-and-swish venture — the Gotham Ballers of the Champions Basketball League, coming in 2017.

  • [NYDN] Activists call foul on Carmelo-backed Brooklyn development
    (Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:00:00 AM)

    Local groups object to the city’s decision to tap the same group that turned a Lower East Side nursing home into luxury condos.

  • [NYDN] Stephen Jackson wants Knick comeback, trashes Fisher and Parker
    (Tuesday, August 09, 2016 1:35:05 PM)

    Stephen Jackson wants to make his comeback with Knicks, but it’s safe to say that wouldn’t be the case if Derek Fisher were still around.

  • [ESPN] Wednesday’s Knicks Links: Frazier, Monroe like improved roster
    (Wednesday, August 10, 2016 5:16:57 AM)

    Wednesday’s Knicks Links: Frazier, Monroe like improved roster

  • [NYTimes] Games Bus Hit by Gunfire, No One Seriously Hurt: Witnesses
    (Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:42:34 AM)

    A bus carrying journalists at the Rio Games was hit by gunfire on a highway between Olympic venues on Tuesday, witnesses said. No one was seriously injured in the incident.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    57 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.08.10)”

    1. Wow – Shane Larkin is playing in Europe next year. You’d think that he’d be able to get a minimum contract somewhere in the NBA at the very least. He wasn’t that bad last year, was he? Especially with dudes like Jerryd Bayless getting $8MM+.

      The idea that Lance Stephenson hasn’t signed yet is strange too. The dude must really just be crazy, or there is something off the court that just hasn’t been made public.

    2. Would definitely take larkin once rose is out for the year.

      Stephenson would be a good risk to take as well. Plus he’d love to play in NY.

    3. Stephenson had a much better year than I thought. The one issue he usually has is efficiency and he put up a .548 ts% last year. No idea why someone hasn’t signed him.

    4. “No idea why someone hasn’t signed him.”

      I’m also surprised but it may be a combination of teams not trusting him to keep his shit together and not be a distraction/negative influence and him not wanting to sign a dirt cheap one year deal.

      I guess what’s most surprising to me is how little ink has been spilled regarding his status. I mean, it was just two years ago that this guy was coming off a phenomenal season in Indy and he had a bit of a resurgence last year. You think maybe we’d be hearing more reports on teams interest in him, what type of deal he’s looking for, etc.

      Instead…crickets. Mildly odd.

    5. I mean, can Lance be any worse than JR Smith? Why aren’t the Cavs going for him? Wouldn’t that be smarter than paying Smith big bucks?

    6. It’s not odd at all. Guys hate playing for him and coaches hate coaching him.

      1. When he left Indiana, not one player on the team pushed management to keep him despite him only getting 3 yrs/$27m with a 3rd year team option as his best offer on the open market from Charlotte.

      2. Before the season even started Clifford wanted Stephenson gone from the team and ultimately he was traded to LAC the following summer for Spencer Hawes and Matt Barnes.

      3. Despite his numbers being pretty good and being the type of wing talent the Clippers desperately needed, he got limited playing time and had to be packaged with a protected first round pick in a deal for the expiring contract of perennial disappointment Jeff Green even though Lance himself was an expiring.

      4. He played well with Memphis who, despite having a wholly reasonable $9m team option on him for 16/17, experience with dealing with headcases and a major need on the wing, chose not to exercise it.

      @Z-Man

      JR, for all of his flaws and issues, has never been loathed and despised by his teammates. Shit, even most of his coaches seem to have liked him personally even if he frustrated them as a player constantly.

    7. Yeah, I’ve never been a fan. Glad we haven’t gone for him. You can bet that if Isiah was in charge, we’d already have traded a #1 pick for him and signed him to a max deal.

    8. Stephenson is the type of reclamation project the Knicks love. Luckily, the budget was spent on Noah and Rose, so no further damage is possible for now.

    9. @6

      Yeah I suppose you’re right. Many teams seem comfortable taking risks on headcases with off the court issues but a guy who’s pretty much universally disliked by teammates seems to be where the line is drawn.

      It’s a real shame because there’s a productive basketball player buried underneath that borderline insanity. Actually it might not be borderline.

    10. All of that is probably true, but another big issue is that almost none of Stephenson’s success has come in a complementary off the ball role.

      He played really well on the scab Grizzlies (minus Gasol, Randolph and Conley) where his usage was in the uppers 20s-30s as the primary ball-handler.

      He was definitely a menace on those Pacers teams, though. There really isn’t a metric to point to which shows him being worth taking a flier on. He has a negative career BPM.

    11. My impression is that the NBA is more tolerant of head cases than most corporate workplaces are. Stephenson had to be a pretty big head case to get no interest at all. I do believe he was that bad at getting along with people, but it’s still a shame when character flaws doom otherwise useful talent.

    12. @13

      Most corporate workplaces don’t have an extremely thin pool of qualified employees. The NFL has tolerated some of America’s worst employees because talent is about as deep as a puddle in that sport.

    13. Stephen Jackson trying to grovel his way back into the NBA via Knicks, while trashing former team mates and pretending money is not the reason for his attempted comeback. Garbage.

    14. Sloan? As a end of bench guy or an example of an unsigned headcase? Before last year he was pretty uninspiring unless he is a skilled defender. Last season he improved his long distance shooting the dreaded 16-20 and the much desired 3 point shot. His TSP was .536, which was the first time it ventured much above .500. His other numbers /36 (because it makes the numbers familiar) are in the 4 reb 6 assist 2 TO range. Solid but not special. If you think the shooting will keep improving he is a decent bench player as a combo guard.

    15. I mean I can understand why many or most teams would not want him or would be hesitant to take him, but for no one to take him? That’s weird.

      There’s got to be someone somewhere that thinks they can reform him or just don’t care about chemistry. Ron Artest has gotten contracts after starting countless brawls, Ty Lawson has stuck around despite 1) sucking and 2) being an alcoholic.

    16. Most corporate workplaces don’t have an extremely thin pool of qualified employees. The NFL has tolerated some of America’s worst employees because talent is about as deep as a puddle in that sport.

      I agree that talent pool shallowness is the biggest factor, but let’s not delude ourselves that there aren’t scumbags galore welcomed into the corporate workplaces…Roger Ailes, anyone? Even the public sector, e.g. education, law enforcement, the military, is polluted with lowlife characters. Not to mention the clergy.

      Lance Stephenson, Stephen Jackson and yes, Derrick Rose are choir boys compared to many sociopaths who are knowingly enabled in every walk of life. At least they have coming out of impossibly difficult circumstances to blame.

    17. I agree that talent pool shallowness is the biggest factor, but let’s not delude ourselves that there aren’t scumbags galore welcomed into the corporate workplaces…Roger Ailes, anyone?

      Society has a way of rationalizing dealing with all sorts of characters. Derrick Rose’s sins on and off the court are not cause of much alarm because there is the expectation of a nice payoff in terms of Knicks wins. Roger Ailes is a much worse character than Rose in that context. Likewise, if Stephenson could perform a bit better, he would be a prime candidate for the usual ‘low risk / high reward’ defense.

    18. Early rumors I’ve read for the schedule has the Knicks hosting the Celtics on Christmas and opening the season in Cleveland. Also Happy Birthday to John Starks!! Love him or hate him he was certainly fun to watch and root for.

    19. I’d love to have Lance Stephenson on the Knicks. Then we can trade for Kemba Walker and Mo Harkless and have a starting five built around people from the New York area and Porzingis (with O’Quinn and Harkless representing Queens off the bench). Kemba, Lance, Melo, Porzingis, and Noah doesn’t sound like a bad line up, honestly.

    20. Please, NO to Lance. Culture and chemistry are too important. He’s not good enough to merit that risk.

    21. I’ve posed this question to the Rose crowd many times before and it always goes unanswered: if Rose is league average or better, do you support signing him to a long term extension?

      Not being a part of the “Rose Crowd” (but I think I understand Phil’s thinking), this is still a very simple question.

      You evaluate at the end of the season after getting all the information you can from your staff, yourself and most importantly, your medical people. None of us know his health in precise terms, but by the end of the season, the medical team should have a pretty good grasp on that reality moving forward.

      let’s postulate that after 40 games Rose is playing good team ball, the team is playing well and he is playing to a WS/48 in the .120 ish range (maybe not likely, but that’s what you stated). If the medical staff thinks he is going to be healthy for the long run, I’d approach him and ask what he is thinking long term.

      If he says, “I’m a max guy and won’t be disrespected by playing for less”, I say Ok and look to move him for anything (picks) at the deadline or maximize the outcome for 2017 by playing him and letting him walk and use the near max slot opened by him signing elsewhere to fill the point.

      You pay someone what you reasonably believe his value to be moving forward…. not maxing some slightly above average player because he’s a former MVP.

      Not rocket science , IMO

    22. FWIW, I believe Phil wanting Noah primarily was the reason for the Rose trade.

      Noah is the quintessential triangular/Phil type player. Great passer for a big. Great defender. Great offensive rebounder. Great ball mover. Phil sees a 1970 Knick type of talented, unselfish, team player. Phil sees Noah as a quantum leap over the very capable (yet limited ) Lopez.

      He had to move Lopez because he couldn’t play KP, Noah and Lopez, so he took a flyer on Rose for the short term. If he pans out and reverts to earlier form, great…. if with a pretty interesting mix of other starters he plays passably, that’s ok too, he can walk and address the point next off season.

    23. I’ve posed this question to the Rose crowd many times before and it always goes unanswered: if Rose is league average or better, do you support signing him to a long term extension?

      Yeah. I was going to answer this yesterday but held back. I’m in the “Rose crowd” so I’ll do so now.

      If he does well, and he’s the best available PG, then sure. We should only pay him what he’s worth and not pay him for his MVP. If he’s the 17th best PG in the NBA he should get paid for that. He’s only 27 and a 5-year deal secures him until he’s 32.

      If he sucks, there are other fish in the ocean.

    24. @bobneptune

      Totally agree. But to add, I think this put Phil in a weak negotiating position, something he’s done chronically since he arrived. The more flexible you are, the easier it is to find a beleaguered GM and take advantage of him in a trade or to find a overlooked free agent and get him on a value contract. Phil, with his bitter determination to prove the triangle’s value, doesn’t prioritize getting value in his moves. He prioritizes getting players that fit the triangle.

      The two biggest moves he’s made both exemplify this problem — the Rose trade where he gave up value to overpay Noah, and the Calderon trade where he traded for an overpaid point guard who he felt was intelligent enough to help teach the triangle.

    25. I believe Jackson knows he is fighting a losing battle because Dolan’s unwavering (and very successful) strategy is to keep feeding names to Knicks fans. Rose and Noah were the biggest names available to the Knicks front office. Jackson, like most of us, will ‘sacrifice’ his better judgment in the altar of 12M reasons. Winning has never been the top priority at MSG.

    26. I believe Jackson knows he is fighting a losing battle because Dolan’s unwavering (and very successful) strategy is to keep feeding names to Knicks fans. Rose and Noah were the biggest names available to the Knicks front office. Jackson, like most of us, will ‘sacrifice’ his better judgment in the altar of 12M reasons. Winning has never been the top priority at MSG.

      I just couldn’t disagree with this more. Dolan is a lot of negative things, but he is a world class businessman. He can read a spread sheet. He knows winning equals better TV ratings, playoff revenue, etc. He desperately wants to win (look how long he was way over the cap in salary). Which is precisely the reason he gave Phil 12M a year… he thought it gave him a great chance to win.

      I don’t believe for a second Phil went balls to the wall for Noah because he was a “name”. His game is what Phil loves and he thinks a shoulder injury shouldn’t be a long term issue and the enforced year off likely gave his knees and ankles time so heal, where he will be able to play to earlier seasons.

    27. The team would’ve sold out regardless if we acquired these names or not. Its a silly argument.

    28. Dolan is a lot of negative things, but he is a world class businessman.

      haha, what

    29. Yeah, I don’t think Phil just went for names either. My guess is that he is feeling pressure to make the playoffs this year, maybe “or else.” I can’t imagine that Dolan is happy with him so far. As a point of pride, too, he might really want to make the playoffs in year 3 or look like a failure in the eyes of many.

      Thus, Rose and Noah. Lee to me is just a good signing and Jennings a good flyer, but they certainly contribute to trying to at least get into the postseason.

      If I’m right, Phil is also trying to “have his cake and eat it too” in a way by then bringing in a few new guys to try to do a sort of on the fly rebuild. Thus Hernangomez, Kuz, and the summer league trio. And, he’s got a #1 next year and a couple of #2 picks in a supposedly good draft. And maybe good cap space.

      The problem here is that both “going for it” and “rebuilding” at the same time might result in a half-assed approach that really does neither well. We’ll see.

    30. @bobneptune said “He knows winning equals better TV ratings, playoff revenue, etc. He desperately wants to win (look how long he was way over the cap in salary). Which is precisely the reason he gave Phil 12M a year… he thought it gave him a great chance to win.”

      The problem is to win a title, you have to take risks, and the outcome if your risks don’t pay off is a bad team with no marquee names. My bet is the math for a team like the Knicks with a big market that will fill the stands without outrageous hype favors reliably winning 30-45 games with a roster full of identifiable names over the risks required of a team that legitimately pursues a title.

      Who do you think makes more in endorsements, Carmelo or the entire Hawks roster? Would the Hawks sell more tickets if they swapped rosters with the Knicks? Some players have brand power that far outweighs their on court value, and that brand power not only earns them money but earns their franchises money as well. The Hawks have 8 straight playoff appearances and won 6 playoff series in those seasons but their owners would probably have made more with the last eight years of Knicks rosters — 1 playoff win and 3 playoff appearances.

      So Dolan the businessman IMO is probably taking the more savvy path from a financial standpoint.

    31. The team would’ve sold out regardless if we acquired these names or not. Its a silly argument.

      The Knicks did not reliable sellout in the 2000s, and it’s not just about tickets. It’s about jersey sales and TV ratings.

    32. Well, either names, not winning, is the top priority at MSG or Phil Jackson is responsible for the 17 & 32 win horrible seasons plus the upcoming terrible one.

      It’s pretty hard to imagine Coach Phil Jackson thinking the current roster is not ‘broken’ (his way of describing the Knicks before the 60 millions).

    33. @35

      I was referring to the Noah and Rose acquisitions. We sell out because of fans coming out for Melo and Porzingis.

      Point taken on the ticket sales and ratings, I just don’t think thats why Phil acquired them.

    34. Might also consider Phil’s comments at the press conference following the Rose and Noah signings. He complained that roster turnover was a commonplace thing in the NBA, that it was just how things were done now. That doesn’t seem entirely factual, though I’m not motivated enough to do the work to find out for sure. Constant roster churn involving well-known players would definitely increase the number of jerseys you had available to sell across multiple years..

    35. haha, what

      Jowels,

      The only appropriate response to that is in my best Nigel Hawthorne accent from “The Madness of King George” is “What, What!” But Dolan managed to out maneuver his father for control of Cablevision and has made a fortune with the company. That is kind of the definition of a good businessman, no matter what you think of him…..

    36. Australia huh? That is one scrappy bunch. They play great defense. Who saw this comin?

    37. Pretty happy with Australia’s effort this morning. You aren’t going to likely beat the US too often, but you can at least make them sweat and work for it. We just have to stay nasty on Defence for the rest of the tournament. Also, if we could get Melo shooting like he did today during the season, that would be perfect ha ha.

    38. If Melo can play off of somebody instead of being the only capable focal point of an offense he’d probably pop off for more nights from 3 like this. Maybe KP can become that type of player sooner rather than later.

    39. Australia is a very good international team, with 5 NBA-level players in the starting lineup. No surprise that they gave the USA team all it could handle.

    40. Melo is Melo.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gKz8GC5Dgps

      We shouldn’t have to do this every week.

      Maybe Jowles can explain why such an average player can so consistently play as well or better than the WP HOFers beside him.

      We know it can’t be interaction effects or the change in shot types.

    41. Maybe Jowles can explain why such an average player can so consistently play as well or better than the WP HOFers beside him.

      That word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

    42. So what ruru is saying is that we only need a shorter 3pt line, shorter defenders, teams to play zone and also Durant, Kobe and LeBron on our team. Then we’ll see what a superstar melo is!

    43. “That word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.”

      He led the 2006, 2007 and 2012 FIBA/Olympic teams in scoring while averaging less than 20 minutes per game (and fewer than the other top stars) and shooting over 50 percent from 3. Each of those teams had Lebron, and or Durant, Kobe and Wade.

      Average player.

    44. “So what ruru is saying is that we only need a shorter 3pt line, shorter defenders, teams to play zone and also Durant, Kobe and LeBron on our team. Then we’ll see what a superstar melo is!”

      Or, perhaps, we could acknowledge that Melo CONSISTENTLY ranks among the elite in myriad shot types, including spot-ups, but it’s long been his shot distribution holding him from elite efficiency.

      When the best penetrating guard playmakers in his career have been Ray Felton and a shot-happy Allen Iverson (who he, not coincidentally, had his most efficient seasons with), perhaps there’s a reason he’s always been so isolation dependent.

    45. I think mid-August is a good time to bench the regular posters and to let the lurkers get some run.

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