ESPN Reports: Knicks Sign Afflalo

According to ESPN:

Afflalo is a 6’5 shooting guard that has swapped teams 5 times in 8 years, including 2 stints in Denver. His primary function is scoring, averaging 14.7 pts/36 and a ts% of 56.1%. The rest of his stats are a non-entity, with pedestrian rebounds, steals, and blocks per minute. Afflalo can hit from downtown, with a career percentage of 38.5% on 3.9 3pa/36. It’s uncertain how good he’ll be on defense. Last year in Denver, where he spent a big chunk of the season, his team was 0.2 points worse on defense with him on the floor. In Orlando the year before that number was a more disappointing 5.8 points.

At age 30, it’s unlikely the Knicks will see the best of Afflalo . On the other hand considering last year’s shooting guard was Tim Hardaway Jr. the Knicks will definitely see an increase in scoring efficiency, most likely defense, and probably a decrease in fan angst.

Afflalo shooting chart from last year from NBA.com
Afflalo shooting chart from last year from NBA.com
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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

414 thoughts to “ESPN Reports: Knicks Sign Afflalo”

  1. I have long admired Afflalo’s approach to the game, so even if he’s probably an overpay even at $8 million, I am still a fan of signing him, just in terms of me really digging the guy. His professionalism is a huge step up from the likes of JR Smith and his knowledge of the game is a huge step up from the likes of Andrea Bargnani.

    This is the exact type of signing the Knicks should have been doing the past two seasons, getting guys on make good contracts, who can then seek other pastures next season if they play well enough. If Monroe indeed follows (which seems likely, as he’s been paired with Afflalo for a while now on the rumor mills), then that takes the Knicks out of the running for any other big name, as they’ll just have $5 million and the room exception to work with. Hopefully they try a pair of make good contracts with two younger guys with some theoretical upside (like the Lakers last season with Ed Davis).

    But yeah, at the end of the day, Jackson placed a huge premium on freeing up cap space, so to do so and then give Affalo $8 million is not exactly awesome. It’s not awful, but nor is it all that impressive.

  2. We’re gonna be better next season, but barring some sort of miracle we’re still going to suck.

  3. We essentially signed a Calderon-level player for a Calderon-level salary.

    Brilliant analogy Z-Man! Only he’s worse. Over his career, he’s net minus 2.7 (raw +/-). Every season in Denver, his supposed prime, he was a net minus on both raw and adjusted calculations according to 82games.com. The last two seasons RPM’s got him at -3.19 (ranked 64th out of 75 SG) and -2.88 (65 out of 99). He’s a career .087 WS/48. He’s a spot-up shooter and that’s it. JR’s better than him. Galloway’s better than him. Almost anyone you put on the floor is better than him including the AFLAC duck.

    Signing below average starters is not the way to improve this team. It would have been better to just offer Cory Joseph 11-13m. He’s 23, has improved every season, and just attained a .149 WS/48. If we sign Monroe, try to move Calderon and sign Koufos. If we don’t sign Monroe, trade Melo.

  4. Ughhh. What a thoroughly mediocre move. Especially in light of all the deck chair rearranging just to clear up cap space, and for what? Arron Fucking Afflalo?

    If we can’t sign the good free agents (we can’t btw), I’d rather pass on all them and just take every other team’s contract burden and horde assets. I mean why not, news flash were gonna suck anyway, so why not put that cap space to some actual use. Welcome back David Lee, is that a 1st round pick you brought with you? Awww you shouldn’t have. Hi there Anderson Varejao, why don’t you and that 1st round pick have a seat.

    Different day, same moronic Knicks.

  5. Meh… My view is that if he shoots 40% from 3 he’ll be useful, about average. Given his shooting history that’s not at all unreasonable. If he doesn’t shoot 40% and instead shoots 35-36%, he’s still more useful than just about any guard we started out with last year.

  6. Almost anyone you put on the floor is better than him including the AFLAC duck.

    Except Tim Hardaway. Afflalo sucks, but he’s not a total trainwreck, but I agree with everything else you wrote.

  7. I actually like the move. WHAT I like is that it’s a player option for year 2…when the cap goes much higher. Means he’s likely to opt out after next season, freeing up more cap space for us to make a push at Durant…or, whoever.

  8. I’m going to give this one a slightly unenthusiastic thumb’s up. Obviously it’s not the paradigm changing move we’re looking for, but it nudges the needle slightly in the right direction while representing very, very little risk. It’s not a great move by any stretch, but it doesn’t qualify as doing something extremely dumb, and that’s the most important thing. Baby steps.

  9. A lot of our improvement this coming year will be tied up in a few factors:

    – Melo being healthy (hopefully)
    – loss of terrible players (Bargnani, THJ, Acy)
    – decrease in minutes given to remaining unproductive players (e.g. Jason Smith)

    Honestly, just having Melo and replacing those very unproductive minutes with league average production probably gets us into the eastern conference playoff conversation. Adding a player or two who are actually above replacement level might help us surprise some people this coming year.

  10. Afflalo wasn’t good last year, but he was average to above average before that. He’s only 29. Good time to buy low with little commitment.

  11. Adding a player or two who are actually above replacement level might help us surprise some people this coming year.

    I agree, but that hasn’t happened yet.

    Afflalo instead of Hardaway makes the Knicks better, but not much better, and you could say the same for a lot of players. I’d have rather rented that 8 million in cap space to someone for future options than spending it on a relative zero like Afflalo. On the plus side, though, the contract structure is very nice. Dumb move, overall, but it’s not a disaster.

  12. Afflalo wasn’t good last year, but he was average to above average before that. He’s only 29. Good time to buy low with little commitment.

    We’re all desperate to dump Calderon and his $15 million contract for the next two years, but paying $16 million for the next two years to a guy who is roughly as good as Calderon is buying low?

  13. Compared to what others have been getting this offseason, yes.

    What player worse than Afflalo has gotten more? Shump’s the closest and Shump is as good as Afflalo while being five-six years younger.

  14. I don’t know that much about Afflalo, but:
    – Unlike Calderon he’s not one of the worst defenders in the league
    – Unlike Calderon he’s not injury prone
    – Unlike Calderon he’s not 33 years old

    Even Calderon still has more value than we give him credit for. He’s only one year removed from being fairly useful. His defense will suck, but he can shoot lights out and pass.

  15. But at $10 mil? Comparably, I think 8 was about right for AA compared to Shump’s deal.

  16. But at $10 mil? Comparably, I think 8 was about right for AA compared to Shump’s deal.

    They’re completely different situations, though. If the Cavs did not sign Shump, they could not sign someone else. So they were held a bit over the barrell there (plus, of course, other teams wanting to sign Shump, since he is a valued asset around the league). The Cavs lose no cap space by signing Shumpert, as they were already capped out. The Knicks, on the other hand, lose cap space by signing Afflalo. Thus, $8 million to the Knicks is a bigger deal than $10 million to the Cavs.

  17. His previous form was decent in 2013-14 and bad in 2012-13. So he’s been bad two of the past three years and he’s now 30.

  18. I like the deal for a few reasons.
    1) He’s better all-around player than any of JR or Shumpert or Hardaway. The former Knicks all have a particular skill that might be better than Afflalo’s but he can shoot, defend and play heads-up basketball. more well rounded and has his head securely on his shoulders.
    2) It’s a deal that allows for us to sign a max player and third player.
    3) It’s a stop-gap deal. He has the player option for 2016, which he may or may not accept. He’ll probably opt out for more loot next year but it’s not a long term commitment.

    Let’s hope that his value as a piece of this puzzle is greater as part of the whole than looking at him as a player on his own.

  19. But at the same time, because of the contract structure, we’re getting a virtually risk-free investment in a guy who can easily turn his career around. If he’s the second option (or third if we land Monroe or LMA) he’ll get more chances, and due to the triangle, be more likely to get more open shots. This seems to me like a Phil-styled gamble…the ones that usually pay off.

  20. But at the same time, because of the contract structure, we’re getting a virtually risk-free investment in a guy who can easily turn his career around. If he’s the second option (or third if we land Monroe or LMA) he’ll get more chances, and due to the triangle, be more likely to get more open shots. This seems to me like a Phil-styled gamble…the ones that usually pay off.

    It’s not an awful move. And I admire the guy personally, so if they’re going to be bad, at least they’re going to be bad with a likeable guy instead of guys like JR and THJ, who no one could stand. But it also isn’t an impressive move. Now THJ for Grant, now that was impressive. Getting Monroe would qualify as impressive for me, as well. Monroe could actually be part of the next good Knicks team.

  21. this isn’t a good move but it’s not game-breaking either. there’s way better ways you can spend 8m though.

  22. It’s not an awful move. And I admire the guy personally, so if they’re going to be bad, at least they’re going to be bad with a likeable guy instead of guys like JR and THJ, who no one could stand. But it also isn’t an impressive move. Now THJ for Grant, now that was impressive. Getting Monroe would qualify as impressive for me, as well. Monroe could actually be part of the next good Knicks team.

    I’m not saying that AA’s gonna get us 60 wins, I’m saying this might be better than we think.

  23. I am amazed at the contingent of angry, patient optimists around here. Good on you. Reverse road ragers.

    In other news, it is mind blowing what Phoenix, who looks so damn smart just yesterday, has managed to do in the last year. They had Isaiah Thomas. He has his flaws such has being 5 feet tall but the guy is young, productive NBA player. He is under an absolutely killer contract that ends at $6.26 million in 2017-18. That is so cheap it will probably violate some minimum under the new CBA. They turned that contract, plus Tyler Ennis and Mile Plumlee into a contract that will pay Brandon Knight around $15 million in 2017-18. Is it even obvious to anyone here that Brandon Knight, even given his relative youth, is a better player than Isaiah Thomas straight up? But wait. To make that same swap they also trade the Lakers 2016 #1 pick top 3 protected for the Cavs #1 pick top 10 protected. Brutal.

  24. Doesn’t impress me, but I don’t hate the move given the type of money and years. At least he is a natural SG, an upgrade compared to THJr. I just hope we can get Monroe and another big like RoLo or Biyombo. Also think it could be a good idea to get some short term contracts with some picks from other teams trying to dump salary….Lets see….

  25. I think the Cavs were worried that another GM would sign Shumpert to an even bigger offer sheet, knowing Lebron was gonna force them to match, so they made an inanely high offer to lock him down. I don’t think Shumpert’s real market value was more than like $7m/year.

    Afflalo is better than Shumpert. He’s sorta meaningless though on this contract. Maybe he makes the Knicks better this year (and leaves) or maybe he sucks (and stays). Player options suck. The only potential plus year is this one, and we’re not going anywhere this coming season, so I guess the appeal is an extra vet presence on the floor for year, helping young guys.

  26. MFC: Also makes him quite tradeable at the deadline if we’re well on our way to another 17 win season.

  27. He’s sorta meaningless though on this contract.

    The best case scenario I can come up with is he plays somewhat well for the first half of this season and they trade him for assets at the deadline. That’s not really what you want as the best case scenario for a player you signed like 3 hours ago, but you know, Knicks.

  28. Doesn’t impress me, but I don’t hate the move given the type of money and years. At least he is a natural SG, an upgrade compared to THJr.

    The problem with “he’s better than THJ” is that that bar is so low that it’d be almost impossible not to cross it. They could have signed Alonzo Gee to the super duper minimum (where the player pays you to play him) and still checked off the “better than THJ” box.

    But sure, signing mediocre players instead of terrible ones is a step forward to the organization, sadly enough.

  29. it’s a solid deal… there weren’t too many shooters on the market and we needed one…

  30. This is a bit like signing Jason Smith last year. At the time, there were some people who thought Smith was a good defender who might be able to extend his range out to the 3, so he’d be an improvement over someone like Bargs with a chance to develop into a tradeable asset. And he didn’t cost much money and was on a one year deal, so there was no long term harm. Which is all well and good, but we passed over signing some actual good players to sign a mediocre player with limited upside and more downside. That’s what we’re doing here.

  31. Good lord. If we are losing free agents to MILWAUKEE…

    Apparently, we didn’t prioritize Monroe because we are waiting on DeAndre, who’s a better player, but whom I can’t imagine actually coming here.

  32. This is a bit like signing Jason Smith last year. At the time, there were some people who thought Smith was a good defender who might be able to extend his range out to the 3, so he’d be an improvement over someone like Bargs with a chance to develop into a tradeable asset. And he didn’t cost much money and was on a one year deal, so there was no long term harm. Which is all well and good, but we passed over signing some actual good players to sign a mediocre player with limited upside and more downside. That’s what we’re doing here.

    Yeah, exactly. If they’re taking themselves out of the “two big money guy” territory (of, say, Monroe and Lopez) then fair enough, but then it should be multiple $4-6 million deals to go with Monroe, essentially beating out MLE and mini-MLE bids. Bargain shop when the big guys are signed.

  33. As long as he’s not asked to be the 2nd scoring option..I’m fine with this deal, for these reasons:
    1. In today’s market, that deal is a bargain.
    2. He’s a killer in the corners- and isn’t the triangle supposed to give you open looks from the corners?
    3. He doesn’t suck on defense.
    4. He’s a vet who handles himself well and can provide leadership that Melo doesn’t.
    5. If Phil manages to ink Monroe, he’s actually a GREAT 3rd option- especially in this offense.

    This could work. I don’t think Phil overpaid at all. Remember, at first Afflalo was pegged to get 10-12 mil a year. I think he fits in well..but Phil has got to get Monroe. The downside of that is- Phil is also gonna hafta either leave Melo at the 3 or play Monroe and Melo at the 5 and 4 and find a great defender at the 3. Monroe actually plays great at the 5- he’s just not a great shot blocker. He plays positional defense well. I may not have the numbers correct, but I think Monroe has averaged like 20 and 12 at the C spot. Plus he’s only 25 which makes him good for the future as well. Yea..Phil..go get that guy.

  34. This is not a game changing deal, but at only two years, it is not going to hamstring the team. I was worried it was going to be a four year contract. Yes, it sucks that our expectations are so low that “upgrade from THJr” or “does not completely cripple our cap room” is considered an improvement for the front office, but the more players we have that could actually be in the rotation on a regular NBA team is a good thing. Can’t say the franchise is turning around, but they may be a little easier to watch and root for next year.

  35. Yikes. If the Knicks don’t get Jordan, then this Afflalo move goes from “meh” to downright stupid. I thought he was “meh” when paired with an actual good signing like Monroe. But if he is the big name, then that’s just cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

  36. It’s weird how Monroe didn’t respond to the Knicks’ “take less money to join a shitty team” sales pitch.

  37. We need to shift gears here and go hard after Kenyon Martin and JR. Birdman is probably also gettable.

  38. Not offering a max contract for Monroe is high-larious. What a terrible decision.

  39. The Knicks didn’t offer the max to Monroe, as USA Today’s Jeff Zillgitt hears, perhaps explaining why he didn’t end up in New York (Twitter l

    LOL

  40. It’s still possible that they can land Jordan. If they can get Jordan, then I can’t worry too much about the Monroe thing. If they don’t land Jordan, however, this is a big ol’ turd in the punch bowl right here.

  41. Hell, I’d be happy if we stole LMA or Jordan. Ecstatic if we stole Gasol (hahahahaha)

  42. If Jordan doesn’t work out, they need to go full Philly mode. Get whatever you can for Melo. Take other teams dreck in exchange for assets (seriously, we could’ve accommodated the Sacto trade from last night just as easily). We’d be off to a decent start with Grant and the Zinger, but if we completely swing and miss this offseason we have to turn this into a 5 year plan.

  43. Well, these two deals (Afflalo coming and Monroe not coming) combine to make me even more confused as to what the hell PJ’s real MO is. Did he flirt with Monroe just to make it seem like he wanted him? Because there was no way Monroe was gonna take below the max after all these other dudes got mega deals.

    I’m really starting to buy into the idea that Jackson wants Melo to ask for a trade. When PJ said Porzingis is 5 years away, and when he sorta mocked Melo’s influence (“He’s our favorite son, but the second most important thing is what we do for this franchise.”) those both could be PJ mind games pushing Melo to open up to a trade. #WishfulThinking

  44. The entire entertainment factor this season is now going to hinge on whether Clyde buys into my carefully crafted “Money Zingis” nickname campaign.

  45. You really have to wonder if Phil is trying to force Melo to drop his NTC.

    You don’t sign Afflalo if you’re trying to piss off Melo. Jackson is trying to get these guys, it’s just hard. Here’s the thing, I don’t know if Robin Lopez even goes for much cheaper than Monroe right now. And if you’re willing to spend that money on Lopez, why not on Monroe? So hopefully it is more that they think they have a real shot at Jordan.

  46. Yeah I’m one who’s reasonably bullish on Afflalo, but it doesn’t make sense to give him $8M while simultaneously pinching a few pennies on Monroe. With Monroe off the table and DAJ and Aldridge seemingly not showing real interest is there any combination of remaining free agents that can make this team a playoff team next year? I think we should pivot to renting our space and trying to grab a couple assets.

  47. I’m really starting to buy into the idea that Jackson wants Melo to ask for a trade.

    Why sign his buddy Afflalo if he is trying to push him out?

  48. Wow. Monroe to the Bucks hurts. Starting 5 of Michael Carter-Williams, Middleton, Greek Freak, Jabari Parker and Monroe is going to be an exciting team to watch though. And they’ve got a solid bench and a good coach. Can’t blame him for not wanting to play with Melo on a team owned by Dolan.

  49. Well, Mike said the Knicks needed an “A” in free agency. And they got “AA”.

    Seems like possibly another “appease Carmelo” move. If so, it’s sucky at any price.

  50. Best case scenario…
    1. Phil Pisses off Melo
    2. Lakers strike out in FA
    3. Melo for Russell!

  51. Monroe signed a 2 year deal with a 3rd year player option. We can sign him in 2 years when he gets really expensvie.

  52. Maybe Phil just wants one centerpiece in Melo and cobble together some role players. We’ll see I suppose.

  53. Now we find out if David West can be bought.

    “What I meant to say was that I was not interested in the Knicks unless they paid me $14 million a year.”

  54. I just don’t get the not signing Monroe for max thing. I guess since I’ve had it in my head for a couple weeks I thought myself into it being a no brainer.

  55. I just don’t get the not signing Monroe for max thing. I guess since I’ve had it in my head for a couple weeks I thought myself into it being a no brainer.

    The only thing that even makes vague sense to me is that Jackson just overplayed his hand. He must have just thought Monroe was more interested in the Knicks than he really was.

  56. I was never on the Monroe train, and apparently, neither was Phil. He wouldn’t have offered him less than the max unless he really deep down didn’t want him on a max deal.

    Monroe has significant holes in his game. He can’t shoot outside of 10 feet, can’t protect the rim, and is sort of a tweener. He’s not really a big-ball nor a small-ball C. At PF, he pushes Melo to the 3, when we all agree he is better suited for the 4. He’s not a great complement to Zinger, either.

    As I’ve said all along, I’m good with not signing anyone to the max and waiting for the right guy. Let Milwakee have him.

  57. That still doesn’t make sense. Why even make an offer if you don’t want the guy? The Knicks met with him as soon as free agency started, so of course they wanted him. They just wanted him to take a pay cut for some odd reason.

    And you know I’m right there with you on just not signing any big names and instead using the cap space for other things (David Lee and some sort of asset, come on down!). But if that’s the case, then the Afflalo deal doesn’t make sense.

    It seems most likely that the Knicks are going to throw a ton of money at RoLo or Kanter, while first hoping that Jordan takes their offer.

  58. Now Isola claims we’re pondering an offer sheet for Enes Kanter. We can debate whether the metrics are right about Monroe’s defense, but there is NO way to argue that Kanter is anything but one of the worst big man defenders in the league.

  59. The Knicks couldn’t offer max contracts to Monroe, Jordan, and Aldridge at the same time (without some contingencies), right? So maybe the Monroe one said “contingent on Aldridge and Jordan not signing theirs”. In which case it makes sense for Monroe to go to the team that isn’t pursuing the other guys, right?

  60. When a guy like Greg Monroe is choosing the Bucks over the Knicks, you can be sure that there is no way in hell we are getting LA or DAJ. Better get ready to settle for something less than ‘less than ideal.’

  61. Personally, if I was the Knicks, I’d rank them:

    1) Monroe
    2) Jordan
    3) Aldridge

    I’m guessing that in reality the Knicks actually ranked them:

    1) Aldridge
    2) Monroe
    3) Jordan

    Monroe is flawed, but at least he’s young, has skill with upside, and obviously cares more about winning and being happy than “allure if location”.

  62. makes total sense… i have no idea why the knicks were even targeting those guys when they weren’t making the knicks a priority…

  63. The Knicks couldn’t offer max contracts to Monroe, Jordan, and Aldridge at the same time (without some contingencies), right? So maybe the Monroe one said “contingent on Aldridge and Jordan not signing theirs”. In which case it makes sense for Monroe to go to the team that isn’t pursuing the other guys, right?

    They apparently just flat out didn’t offer the max.

    But even if that scenario did occur, how does that even make sense? Meet with the guy right after midnight to say “If we can’t sign these two other guys, we’d like to sign you”?!?

  64. Latest reports are that we did offer the max to Monroe after all.

    Edit: Shouldn’t say “latest,” who knows. Howard Beck is reporting max offer, others reporting no max offer.

  65. Latest report are that we did offer the max to Monroe after all.

    Okay, phew. I’d sort of like that to be the truth, if only because then all the people tweeting, “The Knicks were just being fiscally responsible!” would have to find another way to spin this one.

  66. Losing Monroe doesn’t hurt me like losing Caroll or Green…so…I hope we can still find a good big who can play defense.
    Can somebody post viable options aside from the more “famous” ones???

  67. Is Robin Lopez famous? I think he’s looking more and more likely, as the Knicks search for someone to take their money. Lopez is probably sleeping in right now with dollar signs in his eyes.

  68. Agreed on Kanter, but I think that gets matched.

    I’d rather give Robin Lopez $10 million than Greg Monroe $16 million.

  69. Agreed, but Robin Lopez is going to get offers a lot bigger than $10 million. Hell, at this point, getting RoLo for $10 million would more than make up for giving Afflalo $8 million.

  70. I just saw the Monroe signing. that sucks for us..not for Monroe or Milwaukee tho. Wow. The Bucks are poised to be really good this season. Similar to GS with their newfound versatility. They may end up a top 3 seed in the East easy if no one gets injured. Wow. Welp..looks like the pressure’s on to ink Jordan today doesn’t it? Phil’s gonna hafta overpay for him..but at this point- I couldn’t blame him for doing so. If Jordan flat out says no, then I am more than ok with Koufos as a consolation. Adding a Koufos instead of Jordan maintains cap flexibility. That should allow Phil to go after one more useful player or take on salary in a trade from a team that’s looking to dump a contract- which should at the very least land us a pick next year. But missing out on Monroe hurts two fold because he can help the team now and he’s only 25, so he’s good for the future as well. Man..Brian you are 300% correct in saying that this Afflalo signing is stupid if we don’t land a big. Unfortunately, it looks like Afflalo is gonna be the 2nd option on offense- unless Phil loses his mind and adds Ellis to play the PG spot. Ellis might actually be a good PG in the triangle, but I’m not big on adding him to Melo and Afflalo. We need somebody inside who can take the pressure off of our perimeter guys. Wouldn’t it be great if Porzingis is actually more NBA ready than anybody knew and comes out and does really well this season? Jeez..we REALLY need a big..NOW.

  71. Am I crazy to think LA would give up Russell or more for Melo? Assuming he would wave his NTC to get out of this train wreck?

  72. Phil’s gonna hafta overpay for him..but at this point- I couldn’t blame him for doing so

    He can’t really overpay, as he can only offer the same as everyone else – the max.

  73. As far as bigs go (which Phil made pretty clear is his top priority):

    Gasol is resigning
    Aldridge doesn’t seem interested in the Knicks
    DAJ seems like only the tiniest sliver of a chance
    RoLo is still out there
    Ed Davis is still out there
    Koufos is still out there
    West is still out there but made it pretty clear he wasn’t looking at the Knicks
    Kanter is still out there

    Looking awfully thin already. I assume we’re looking to throw all our money at RoLo or, god forbid, Kanter. There are still a lot of teams with cap space left.

  74. With Affalo at $8M and Monroe at $15M, we had $6’ish left for a backup center, like Asik or Biz. If we don’t get D’Andre (which we likely will not), we need 2 centers, and there’s not a single worthy starting C out there. So, it’s hard to over-pay, when you kinda need two of them. This sucks.

  75. Would the Lakers even do Russell for Melo at this point? Randle and a future first seem more likely. It doesn’t matter, though, since Melo is not going anywhere.

  76. I think LA might actually be desperate right now, especially if Aldridge ends up in SA. So, I’d expect Randle and a 1st for Melo from Buss. I don’t think we can sell another team on the idea that Melo is still in his prime.

  77. I guess the pitch to Jordan is you can be the best center in the East. Beyond that, hard to see why he’d consider us over Dallas or LA.

  78. I guess the pitch to Jordan is you can be the best center in the East. Beyond that, hard to see why he’d consider us over Dallas or LA.

    Is Dallas even good? They have no backcourt.

  79. we are going to overpay a bunch of league average guys… if we couldn’t land aldridge, jordan or monroe… which might’ve been their plan all along.. sort of like what boston is doing…. except we are probably going to sign the wrong guys…. esp if we are targeting guys like kanter…

  80. Jodan, Lopez and Koufos are all big-ball, weak-side 5’s. Better fits with Melo and Zinger.

    West is a multi-dimensional 4. At less than $12 million, he’s be a decent stop-gap.

  81. Who else still has cap space that we are competing with? Boston? What is their deal. Ainge having as little luck as Phil so far?

  82. Who else still has cap space that we are competing with? Boston? What is their deal. Ainge having as little luck as Phil so far?

    Seems like the Lakers and the Blazers. The Blazers are weird, they’re still trying to sign guys even with Aldridge likely leaving.

  83. Well, give Ainge credit, he signed Amir Johnson and drafted Rozier. The guy’s a genius!

  84. Amir Johnson is 27 and good. That signing seemed fine. But yeah, it was definitely kind of embarrassing how Ainge couldn’t get a top draft pick, try as he might.

  85. Who else still has cap space that we are competing with? Boston? What is their deal. Ainge having as little luck as Phil so far?

    Supposedly big name free agents won’t even take meetings with Boston. Combine that with their inability to move up to the #9 spot in the draft despite offering a boatload of picks and the questionable selection of Rozier at #16, and it’s been a pretty poor offseason for the genius that is Danny Ainge

  86. But is it better or worse that we offered the max? It makes us seem less stupid, but it also illustrates how hard it’s going to be to get players to come here, even with The Great And Powerful Melo.

  87. My other concern is that Det now has the $$ to overpay for an Asik or Biyombo. We are going to end up w/ the rookie playing C, or with (gulp) bargnani back

  88. Asik resigned with New Orleans, $12 million a year over five years. Which is why Robin Lopez is not going to be cheap.

  89. And the Monroe signing makes the Afflalo signing even moar ludicrous.

    I’ll say it again, the Knicks absolutely not be signing anyone let alone mediocrities. Afflalo level players are a dime a dozen, with teams always unlooking to unload those contracts with a pick for your troubles.

    I mean for fucks sakes, Sacramento is walking around with a big fat sign on their back saying “Rape Me of Assets”. They just gave away Nik Stauskas, a 1st round pick, and the right to swap two 1st round picks.

    Let me repeat that, the one team in the NBA dumber than us literally gave away three away 1st round picks that are guaranteed to fall in the top 8. Kings picks are like buying gold bonds there is no way that return doesn’t pay off up the ass. And Nik Staukas is just icing on the cake.

    Meanwhile Phil is determined not to deal with anyone and sign mediocre retreads while the Knicks just circle the drain. Neither improving enough to make a playoff run, but not acquiring any assets to make the future a brighter one.

  90. He can’t really overpay, as he can only offer the same as everyone else – the max

    Very true Brian. I just think that unless Jordan has more of an offensive game than we know- then his max is too much for him. I guess I’m old school in the sense that I believe max contracts should be for superstars. Given the huge hole Jordan would fill for the Knicks, I would be ok with the max. But, I do think that hurts Melo on offense because that would make Afflalo the 2nd biggest threat on offense. However, if you add a Koufos, then you get another option on offense that you know can score unassisted if he needs to. Plus he can shoot it from 15 all day long, and block shots at a decent rate. Phil is stuck in a helluva catch 22 it seems. Max out a difference maker on defense who doesn’t offer much else and who isn’t really a lockdown defender at his position, or lean towards offense and field a team who is below average defensively again. Now when I say Jordan’s a difference maker on D, I’m considering his bpg and his defensive rebounding. I haven’t seen him control the paint defensively like a Mutombo (high goal) or even a Tyson Chandler. I think he can though. He’s too athletic not to be able to. The one thing I love about Jordan though, is how he took his game to another lever once Blake went down. That shows me that he can definitely play very well.

  91. I agree that Boston has had a poor draft/FA period so far but ainge has a lot of picks/assets and I would presume he will make a trade at some point. I’d much rather have ainge running this franchise rather than Phil

  92. Why no meetings for Boston? Is the northeast out this season? Can’t all be taxes and cold winters, can it? Gotta be about basketball too. I get avoiding NY and their constant chaos, but Boston? They have a good coach, good young assets, and a great tradition of winning (even recently).

  93. Ainge traded the final years of pierce & Garnett and got 3 unprotected 1sts. This is the type of trade that I waxnted for melo

  94. Even at equal money, Lopez is a better fit for us than Monroe, and may in fact be the better player. They had roughly equal WS/48 scores last year. Lopez just turned 27. The Monroe hype is contingent on Drummond hindering his development. I’m not buying it.

  95. *In case of emergency get Amare to break the glass* then bring Roy Hibbert and David Lee….

  96. guys like lopez are a dime a dozen… there are at least 5 center types in this market that do roughly about what he does… low usage defensive center types… that will probably end up making 80% of what he’ll command… he’s not even that good on the boards…

  97. *In case of emergency get Amare to break the glass* then bring Roy Hibbert and David Lee….

    Hibbert might actually be the type of crazy idea that’ll work. Say we offer to take on Hibbert’s deal and give them the cap space to grab a Koufos or Lopez. That might actually net us a decent 1st in ’16.

  98. I still see as a viable option (as a Plan C) to bring here Hibbert and David Lee (with Looney). If we did that, and Afflalo opts out, next year we could make some interesting offers.

  99. Oh, and should I remind you that Wade is still on the market? And we have around 20 million bucks?

    For complete clarity: I’m being sarcastic.

  100. Anybody thinking DeAndre Jordan is going to play for the Knicks, y’all gotta lay off that JR Pipe.

    He’s a RESTRICTED Free Agent. The Clippers aren’t letting him walk, period. The Knicks could sign him to an offer sheet and the Clips would just make us sweat for a few days before matching anything we could put on paper. Come on now!

  101. How do I make Russell and other stuff for Melo happen? Please how. How. How does it happen. Make it happen.

  102. Also, Greg Monroe is a boring-ass player. I talked myself into him lately — didn’t seem like we could do much better — but Milwaukee can have him.

  103. I know I’m in the minority but I am still fine with going after Tobias Harris instead of Monroe

  104. Amir Johnson is an undersized PF who can’t shoot outside of 10 feet, can’t shoot FTs, fouls like crazy, and doesn’t rebound well enough to compensate for his weaknesses. He’s a guy who I think PER values more accurately than WS48. Considering their draft picks, cap room and needs, I think he was an awful signing.

  105. He’s a RESTRICTED Free Agent. The Clippers aren’t letting him walk, period. The Knicks could sign him to an offer sheet and the Clips would just make us sweat for a few days before matching anything we could put on paper. Come on now!

    I think that you might need to come on now. ;)

    In other words, he is an unrestricted free agent.

  106. Tobias Harris at 60mln/4yrs could still be a good-ish acquisition. I don’t like it very much, but still.

  107. I know I’m in the minority but I am still fine with going after Tobias Harris instead of Monroe

    Now that they missed out on Millsap, the Magic are unlikely to let Harris go. He is actually restricted.

  108. he’s restricted and it’s going to be hard to offer him to a sheet in this environment…

    we lost out on monroe because we were waiting on lma and jordan… 3 days everyone will probably be gone.. and then orlando could just match…

  109. and.. windhorst also reporting that we didn’t offer max to monroe… i try to be fair with my criticisms.. but that’s just stupid….

  110. #137 *bows head in shame*

    Still hard to believe he’d leave LA. He’s tight with Blake, plays on a well-coached winning team, and is there any question about Steve Ballmer giving him the max? It’d be a real shocker if he left.

  111. and.. windhorst also reporting that we didn’t offer max to monroe… i try to be fair with my criticisms.. but that’s just stupid

    Let’s take it easy with Windbag, he’s just going by what someone else said, it’s not verified that we didn’t offer max

  112. well i tend to trust Woj since he seemed to have a pulse on this situation from the start of this… which also confirms what hahn was saying that we were trying to convince the max guys to take less…

    all i know is that if it is true… the knicks are completely out of touch with with what’s going on around them…

  113. Kanter to Detroit makes zero sense for everyone involved.

    He’s also restricted, so it gets Kanter the max from OKC that OKC was holding off on giving him. So it made sense for Kanter and it makes some sense for OKC. For Detroit…yeah, not as much.

  114. SVG likes big lineups and wants an offensive Kanter to go with a defensive Drummond?

  115. None of the remaining FA centers (RoLo, Koufos, McGee) would fit the prototype for the triangle offense. Passing out of the double team is a crucial skill for that position. Monroe, for all his faults, was decent in that regard. Gasol, Cousins, Bogut (if healthy) are the ideal.

    Phil can’t be happy.

  116. Kanter to Detroit makes zero sense for everyone involved.

    It makes an enormous amount of sense for my LG monitor, which I could potentially throw 6-8 feet given a deep knee bend.

  117. LOL.

    I guess he must be really good bc phil has lots of ringz.

    I hope we get something good for Porzingis.

  118. Boston has never been a destination for free agents

    But Milwaukee and Toronto have?

  119. I’ve now seen 2 reports in addition to Howard Beck that Monroe did get a max offer from the Knicks. Maybe we confused him by couching it in snarky NY street slang.

  120. @ Donnie point taken. Though I wouk argue that guys may want to play for j Kidd. Toronto? I got nothing

  121. Bummed a bit about Monroe, as I do think he’d fit well here, but he did say a couple of days ago that he wanted to get to a playoff contender. Frankly, Milwaukee fits the bill much better than the Knicks at that. So, maybe we shouldn’t be so surprised that he decided to go there.

    I’m okay with the Afflalo signing. The rumored 4/$44m would have been awful. As it is, he is a competent “hold the fort” guy, and $8m is okay given what’s going around these days. Really, it is probably just a 1 year deal. Unless he has a truly awful or injury-plagued year, he’ll opt out and the Knicks have additional $ next year.

    I’m very meh on Jordan at the $19-20m it’ll take to sign him, but Afflalo’s deal does leave room for him. I’d rather shift to Robin Lopez (assuming that Aldridge finally signs with SA or whoever) or start looking at seeing what Indiana would give to offload Hibbert.

  122. Marc Berman ?@NYPost_Berman 32s33 seconds ago
    David Falk states for record #Knicks offered max to Monroe for any amount of years he wanted. Was all about Bucks readier to make playoffs

  123. The Blazers are weird, they’re still trying to sign guys even with Aldridge likely leaving.

    No weirder than the Knicks – who are still trying to sign guys who would do no more than elevate this team from wretched to merely mediocre.

    I can’t say I’m not disappointed that we did not get Monroe. But I’m not heartbroken, either. Even with him on board, the Knicks figured to suck next year. The real advantage to signing him now would have been to lock him up at a soon-to-be below market deal for 4-5 years. Judging by the fact that he only agreed to a two-year deal with the Bux, Monroe was probably not interested in making that length of commitment. My hunch is that Phil thought that Monroe on a two-year deal was just not worth the bother.

    As I and others have noted there are no transcendent talents out there to be had; no one who would have radically turned this team’s fortunes around in the next year or two. Next year, there’s only Durant – who will be the longest of long shots. No matter how things went down in free agency this year, the Knicks would have still been looking at a long, slow climb back to contention. Phil knows this. As a matter of fact, he was even being praised for his patience as recently as last week when he chose the high ceiling project Porzingis over other more NBA-ready prospects. Now he’s being roasted for his failure to make a big splash in a less-than-inspiring free agent pool.

    I’ll readily admit that I can’t really see what Phil’s endgame might be. I don’t really understand the Afflalo signing. And there may even be one or two other head-scratchers to come. But I’m willing to withhold judgement until all of the offseason moves have been made. Hopefully, the picture will be made much clearer at that time. If not, then I’ll at least have the comfort of knowing there is still order in the universe; that there is no power greater than the Knicks’ bad mojo – not even the wisdom of Zen.

  124. @159. Yup, what I just said in 157. Monroe went to a team far readier to make a playoff run than the Knicks. Can’t blame him for that.

  125. David Falk states for record #Knicks offered max to Monroe for any amount of years he wanted. Was all about Bucks readier to make playoffs

    hur hur hur the game has passed Phil by

  126. Marc Berman ?@NYPost_Berman 32s33 seconds ago
    David Falk states for record #Knicks offered max to Monroe for any amount of years he wanted. Was all about Bucks readier to make playoffs

    Phew. Because otherwise, wow, that would have been cuckoo bananas. Woj says that the Knicks are in deep negotiations with Lopez. Lopez is fair enough. Yet another “eh, whatever” type guy, but that’s a step up from “blech, what the hell?” types of guys!

  127. My hunch is that Phil thought that Monroe on a two-year deal was just not worth the bother.

    Monroe’s agent says that the Knicks told him they’d take him on any offer. Monroe just wanted to go to a better team.

  128. Marc Berman ?@NYPost_Berman 32s33 seconds ago
    David Falk states for record #Knicks offered max to Monroe for any amount of years he wanted. Was all about Bucks readier to make playoffs

    And I wasted 10 minutes of my life this morning listening to Brian Windbag go on about “Knicks mismanagement” and “living in the wrong era” by not offering the max. Think he’ll apologize?

  129. So, let me get this straight:

    Young team on the upswing with a quality coach, fresh off surprising playoff run and MILWAUKEE

    >

    Hot garbage fire, Carmelo Anthony and NEW YORK CITY??

  130. That’s the age we live in. Someone tweets a rumor, it gets passed around, ranted about by talking heads, and then later turns out not to be true. Then, “never mind!”
    :-)

  131. Disappointed but not surprised by the Monroe decision.

    I’ll repeat – the only FAs we are getting are the ones we overpay for. This means we will not be getting any max FAs unless those guys are actually valued below the max and we overpay to the max.

    There is NOTHING attractive about the NY Knicks situation right now. Compared to Sacramento maybe, but not compared to most teams. We will need to overpay at least until we become a decent team with something of a bright future.

    The only way we might get good fast is via trade, and Melo is our ticket. If he can play lights out for a few months but we remain a mediocre team, perhaps Phil can use his Zen koans to cajole Melo into accepting a trade to a desperate contender in need of offense for young pieces. That is our only shot at doing this fast. We have no competitive advantage in free agency.

  132. You know what still bothers me to this day? We had Jason Kidd on our roster and NO ONE in management saw and acted on his potential as a coach. Clearly he was in decline as a player and more of a coach on the floor than ever before. Why wasn’t anyone promising him a spot on the staff the next season or even interviewing him for a possible head coaching position?? I know Woodson was coaching the team to a 54 win season, but no one could’ve seriously thought that he was more than a stopgap coach. But I guess when you’re in “win now” mode, you stick with the veteran coach. Hindsight is really making that move look BAD. Maybe Phil SHOULD look to move Melo and let Fisher put his own imprint on the team.

  133. Next up : resigning Bargs and Landry Fields…..
    Can’t wait for the season to start

  134. It’s not exactly like Monroe’s agent is any more of a reliable source than whoever from the Knicks was floating that they didn’t offer him the max – both sides are playing the spin game at this point. Knicks want to make it seem like they only got passed over because they didn’t really want him (even though this makes them look dumb to those paying close attention), Monroe’s side wants to make it look like he had tons of choices but just really loves Milwaukee (riiiiiight). Everybody is spinning here. None of it is definitive truth.

  135. I actually think Robin Lopez is very good.
    Much better than a meh whatever guy.

    Good rim protector if you look at his sportvu stats (opponents shoot 5.7% worse when he’s there as opposed to usual), opponent FG% at the rim of 48% which is actually better than Deandre, Anthony Davis, Mozgov, etc. — Monroe’s was 55%.

    TS 57.4 on a pretty reasonable usage of 15.4 (by comparison D.Jordan’s and Tyson’s usage was about 13). Not a terrible shooter though he doesn’t do it much (PPP 1.0). 27% of his possessions were as the PNR roll man — PPP 1.17 (better than Anthony Davis and Amare and Mozgov and Brandan Wright among many others).

    If we can get him at a Tyson-like price ($12MM starting-ish) that would mean we’d have maybe another $8MM or so to get yet another player. Even if it’s $14MMi-ish that would leave us with more room than the full MLE which is probably important.

  136. The Sporting News has an interesting list of 12 potential value/steal signings. Our boy Cole is on the list as a quality backup C. It is headed by Lin (saying he’d be a steal at $2-4m), then Cory Joseph, Biyombo, Darrel Arthur, Tyler Hansbrough, Corey Brewer, Aron Baynes, Luc Mbah a Moute, Greg Smith, Jeremy Evans, and John Jenkins.

    Maybe the Knicks snag one of the big men on that list (hopefully after getting RoLo)?

  137. Al “Buckets” Harrington just tweeted this:

    Phil Jackson give me a call. I’ll play for the @nyknicks… Don’t understand how dudes don’t wanna play in the MECCA! #confused #thegarden 43m

    Of course, he had a sneaker deal with K Mart. But I still love Buckets.

  138. David Falk claims that the Knicks offered the max but that Greg Monroe wanted a playoff team. So why even meet with the 17-win Knicks?

    The first Isola tweet that makes sense

  139. The most logical explanation is that Phil did not initially offer Monroe the max but did later. Or Phil offered him the max but asked him to take less. I figured the hold-up might have been about the time frame (e.g., Phil wanted a 3 yr deal player option on 4th versus 2yr plus option.) And that Monroe might even want a 1yr plus option deal. However, if it was always a 2yr plus option and it was about the dollars, then it’s on Phil. Monroe felt insulted by the offer or by Jax asking him to take less.

  140. Afflalo at 8 million for 2-dumb deal. Monta Ellis at 11 million for 4. Really dumb deal. Trading a 1st, your lotto pick the year before, and 2 switches to fail to sign Monta Ellis? Kings

  141. Guess the Pacers felt they were low on knuckleheads after a year without Lance.

  142. If Phil decides to go forward with Melo, his next move or moves HAS to be with Melo at the 4 in mind. Regardless of who signs, this team doesn’t go very far with Melo primarily as a wing. He just doesn’t play perimeter D well enough, but he’s ok at the 4. Flip to offense and he gives us an advantage that should scare the living daylights out of defenses. Plus it also buys time for Porzingis to grow into his position- which I think is at the 4 not the 5(unless he gains another 20 or so pounds). As long as we get a C that can boards and play some defense, I’m ok with it. Besides, we can still retain Cole- who deserves more playing time. He may not be a great full time starting C, but he is a great platoon C at 20 mpg.

  143. Jae crowder signs with celtics for 35/5

    And I pretty much want half the people off clash fans list (Joseph, hansbrough, Baynes, Jenkins, biyombo)

  144. AA is a good guy, but not a very good player. Not a fan of the signing in a vacuum, but he might have a bit of value the next two years given the contracts we’re seeing. HE was wildly efficient with Melo in Denver, but that was with another creator.

    Woj is saying we’re closing in on Lopez, which would be great. If somehow the Knicks can snag Beverly away, they might be pretty decent.

  145. I think you guys who still think we didn’t offer the max to Monroe are probably wrong. David Falk is very unlikely to be outright quoted as saying all four teams offered the max for any contract length we wanted, if it was a blatant lie. There’s a difference between agents anonymously pushing BS and Falk going on the record with a very specific fabrication like that. The benefits are trivial.

  146. If the team truly has no shot at Jordan, how about signing Koufos, retaining Cole, moving Melo to the 4,and grabbing guys like Brandon Bass and Mbah a Moute ond short cap friendly deals?

  147. I’m starting to wax nostalgic for Isiah. How does Phil ask a guy – who just took the QO and played for 4m – to give the NYK a discount?

    The worst case scenario would be Phil trades Zinger. Second worst is what’s likely to happen – a bunch of mediocre players and everyone praises Phil for turning the franchise around when we’re the 8th seed.

    Best case (not happening) is a Melo trade, we rent space, we take on value contracts.

  148. Any reaction to Coco Vandeweghe’s rip on Carmelo Anthony?

    My only reaction is that it’s ridiculous that Kiki named his daughter Coco.

  149. From what I read, Magic will not be matching Tobias Harris offer and Celtics are out after all their work so far.

    Can someone tell me why we aren’t interested in a 22 year old that can be had right before the cap explodes?

  150. A Melo trade for any two of Clarkson, Randle, a first, and Russell (okay, probably not but we can dream) would put us right back in business. It ain’t happening, tho.

  151. If we keep Melo, I’m ok with Tobias Harris- so long as he keeps Melo at the 4. Still need a couple big bodies tho. Melo-Harris-Afflalo would be a decent start for an offense. Each can play at least 2 positions.

  152. I’m a huge tennis fan, and never realized that Coco was Kiki’s daughter.

  153. Looking like the Aron Baynes deal is for 3 yrs, not 2. That’s a bit more reasonable all things considered.

  154. I’m a huge tennis fan, and never realized that Coco was Kiki’s daughter.

    I think she’s his niece.

  155. Honestly, I’m not sure which is better (or worse). Losing out on Monroe because you offer him less, or losing out on Monroe because he likes Milwaukee more.

    It used to be that the one thing NY had going for it was it could pay players tons of money to move there. Now that seems to be gone.

    I guess Phil Jackson was right at the very beginning: he wanted to compete for the playoffs this year, to show free agents that they were on the cusp of contention. Unfortunately, they proved to be far, far from the cusp of the cusp of the cusp of contention.

    I think not signing Monroe is no big deal in the long run. And I think not signing any of these guys is probably best. But, that said, Phil obviously put a lot of stock in having cap space to spend this summer, so presumably he liked somebody that was available. So if they walk away with Robin Lopez and Aaron Afflaflo, it’s kind of a head-scratcher. Are the Knicks rebuilding? Are they going all in with a 2 and a 7? Are they trying to appease Melo? Are they on a 2 year plan? A 5 year plan?

    It’s all very confusing. The only thing we seem to know for sure is that they won’t be very good next year.

  156. At least presumably Lopez at the 5 means Melo playing a lot of 4 next year. I like that!

  157. Didn’t the Knicks meet with Monroe at 12:01? If so, they wanted him. I’d be shocked (and it would have been foolish) if they did not offer the max. I’d guess the very likely did, like his agent said.

    He’s probably gonna be available in 2 years, if they want him. The Knicks aren’t winning ANYTHING in the next 2 years, so not signing him or any of the big names is not really a big deal, except in the media.

    However, Phil himself did talk up rebuilding the team through free agency, so he set some expectations for the fanbase. Lopez (if he’s gotten) and a nice 3rd piece this offseason will help, and then see what we’ve got in Porzingis, Grant, Galloway, Thanasis, Early, Hernangomez, etc. these next 2 years.

  158. Is it still feasible to pick up Harris and RoLo ?

    Both? Probably not. They have roughly $21 million to spend on two guys. Lopez alone is going to get $10 million (likely much higher), so the Magic would have to choose not to match $11 million for Harris. Seems highly unlikely.

  159. the Magic would have to choose not to match $11 million for Harris.

    First Harris would have to sign for $11 million (with several teams still having the cap space to offer more than that). Then the Magic would have to not match (which seems unlikely, especially with Millsap rejecting their big money offer).

  160. So all in for Jordan. If not him, then id choose from Harris or Lopez then add Lin or Beverly

  161. I agree about getting Harris – not sure why he is not in more demand. His issues on defense may be more worrisome than I initially thought.

  162. Knicks can sign Devin Harris, Felipe Lopez, Earl Monroe, and David Aldridge. That’s 4 of the top free agents and still he under the cap by $20,000,000!

  163. Jordan would be an awesome get for phil. I really hope Deandre does not leave without signing a contract. If Phil signs Deandre – he gets an A for the offseason from me. I just don’t believe it will happen.

  164. Robin Lopez is not a total bum, but he has one key weakness: he is not a good rebounder for a C, especially on the defensive end. RoLo and Porzingis projects to be an extremely shittay rebounding frontcourt, to the point where I don’t think they can play together successfully. I think NYK might be better off with a guy like Kosta Koufos, who is probably equal to RoLo as a rim protector and defender but who rebounds better. Koufos is a strong defensive rebounder and the Knicks are going to need that, and he would probably come relatively cheap so the Knicks could potentially still add another decent piece.

  165. I agree about getting Harris – not sure why he is not in more demand.

    I think it’s because he is restricted and teams haven’t been giving out offer sheets to RFAs because it ties up money for 72 hrs. Also, we heard reports that Draymond had broken off talks with the Warriors, only for him to sign a few hours later. So I think logic still dictates that Orlando will match any reasonable offer, and possibly unreasonable offer too, that Harris may sign for.

  166. DeAndre Jordan is freaking awesome. He’d give us back what we had when Chandler was here, and would make this offseason an A+. So expect to see him sign somewhere else soon.

  167. If the Knicks really want Tobias Harris then they will have to switch their focus from Side Show Bob Lopez and on to someone like Kosta Koufos who will come inexpensively and allow the Knicks to pay Harris (who wants to play in NY).

  168. What would a potential David Lee deal look like?

    Or what are other potential deals where we can take on unwanted contracts + assets?

  169. @217
    Agreed, and if they can’t get Jordan, and they are determined to spend all they have, Lopez ($12m?) and Beverly ($9m?) would be my preferred options.

  170. Ed Davis to the Blazers.

    Robin Lopez is not a total bum, but he has one key weakness: he is not a good rebounder for a C, especially on the defensive end.

    Yep, in fact he’s a worse defensive rebounder than Bargs. True story. But what’s maybe a little interesting is that his teams have not historically been too bad at defensive rebounding while he’s been on the floor, both absolutely and compared to when he’s been off.

  171. I’d say forget Lopez at the moment. Especially if you’re looking to add another guy afterwards who can score. The market for Lopez is too high. Koufos and Harris is more feasible if Phil doesn’t steal Jordan. I’m ok with a starting lineup of Koufos-Melo-Harris-Afflalo-Calderon. Not much defense but enough options to keep defenses from focusing on Melo. Then maybe Phil can retain some of his on FA’s like Cole, Shved, and Lance Thomas- they should come cheap. Hell, maybe Amundson as well. If Phil can do that, he will have added more talent and gotten the team younger overall when u consider what he did in the draft. That would be a solid- not spectacular- offseason for Phil. We probably need solid more than spectacular. I think spectacular has always been out of the team’s reach, and will continue to be out of reach as long as Dolan is running the show. I think Dolan scares some stars off a little. So, as someone mentioned a few threads ago, maybe the team should go the Mets’ route. Phil’s already taken one step in that direction. At this point, adding Aldridge isn’t really gonna move the needle a whole lot. Unless it’s a 2 yr deal with a team option for the 3rd year. By year 3 at the latest, Porzingis should be ready to man a frontcourt spot. I really don’t think Phil’s gonna look to trade Melo at this point, or else he wouldn’t have agreed looked to add Afflalo. But at the same time, I’m not sure Melo would want to stick around if Phil can’t reel in a big fish this offseason. Things are so..weird right now.

  172. I would love to get David Lee and his expiring back, especially if GS would have Calderon. Lee’s D is bad, but he’d be a GREAT triangle player on O.

  173. One thing’s for sure..I really don’t want Melo at the 3 this season. And Melo has already proven that he can get 27 and 8 at the 4, so no Aldridge. I think signing Aldridge and leaving Melo at SF would be less effective than just moving Melo to the 4 and building around that. Aldridge looks good on paper, but leaving Melo at the SF spot at this stage could be catastrophic.

  174. my understanding of a potential David Lee trade was that GS was willing to give up a #1 pick plus David Lee to get his contract off the books.

    I say jump on it! First, Lee’s a good stop-gap. He’s not a great defender but he can rebound and score. His inside game will compliment KP’s and Melo. But we do it for the pick and Lee’s contract is expiring. Lee is better than Robin Lopez. The salary for Lee would be our “max” dollars but we replace him with a late 1st rounder next year. If we’re smart, we might be able to parlay that pick for a higher pick. Unfortunately, all the picks belong to the 76’ers and Celtics and they’re not gonna help us out.

  175. @228 – there may be one team more pathetic than the Knicks. Enter the Lakers. Not only did they lose out on Monroe, but couldn’t keep their own young talent.

  176. Pathetic teams:
    28. Knicks
    29. Kings
    30. Lakers?

    or:
    28. Knicks
    29. Lakers
    30. Kings?

  177. Well you can see that hardly anyone is locking their cap up with offer sheets to RFAs at the moment. The only chance the knicks have at getting both Lopez and Harris if Lopez signs for $8m or Calderon is traded to Memphis or some team that will want shooting.

    2yrs at 7.5 does not look that bad.

  178. I’m a huge tennis fan, and never realized that Coco was Kiki’s daughter.

    She’s his niece.

  179. Shane Larkin to Nets. 2/3m

    That moment when you see your neighbor hauling in the 12 year old fax machine you left on the curb and start to panic about what the hell you’re gonna do if you need to fax someone.

  180. That moment when you see your neighbor hauling in the 12 year old fax machine you left on the curb and start to panic about what the hell you’re gonna do if you need to fax someone.

    ha!

  181. This would be so much easier to handle if the Knicks had their 2016 1st rd draft pick.

  182. This would be so much easier to handle if the Knicks had their 2016 1st rd draft pick.

    Yup, at the time of the Bargs trade, I tried to defend it by recalling the ’16 pick swap with the Nuggets as the last item from the Melo trade. “Even if we’re terrible, the Nuggets will take our pick.” I didn’t expect both teams to absolutely crater by this point.

  183. @232 – If Golden State were to offer a #1 pick plus Festus Ezeli to get David Lee’s contract off their books, I would pull the trigger.

  184. Phil probably doesn’t want to do this, but how bout forget about all the expensive C right now? Trade for either Lee or Hibbert (get a pick or young asset along the way), fill out roster with 1 year deals, develop the kids, maybe have room for 2 max contracts next offseason. Deal Calderon or stretch him next offseason. Maybe Afflalo opts out of his 2nd year.

    Also, maybe this pisses off Melo, he gets traded during the season for more pick(s)/young asset(s). Heck, maybe room for 3 max contracts?

    Try the Heat thing. Try to lure 2 (3 if Melo wants out) max stars next year??

  185. Suns need to get off Markieff Morris/PJ Tucker in sign-and-trades or dumps to get closer to space needed for Chandler and Aldridge.— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 2, 2015

    Please, park them here.

  186. Knocking on wood just saying it, but holy crap would I love to take Alex Len/PJ Tucker off Phoenix’s hands so they can make room for Aldridge. Would be amazing haul.

  187. PJ and the shitty Morris would be okay too. He’s moveable

    The shitty Morris (Marcus) went to Detroit! ‘Kieff is much better

  188. So LMA cancelled his Knicks meeting. This is because:
    (1) The Lakers were crying hysterically in their fourth meeting begging for closure and also to please not meet with the Knicks
    (2) The Knicks have already secured DeAndre Jordan
    (3) David West texted him

  189. I think NYK might be better off with a guy like Kosta Koufos, who is probably equal to RoLo as a rim protector and defender but who rebounds better.

    You’d have to guarantee a starting job for him, which the Knicks can do, but he’s 26 and averages only plays 15 mins per game. That’s the work-load Dalembert was averaging a year ago when the pro-Chandler trade folks thought that he could slide right into Chandler’s place and the Knicks wouldn’t miss a step.

    That said, though Robin Lopez can play starter minutes, he probably shouldn’t. His per 36 numbers are pretty weak, and his rebounding is especially bad (not sure why he grades out above average via WS/48, which usually values low-usage but great rebounding players).

    I guess beggars can’t be choosers, but NY doesn’t need to be a beggar either. There’s still good value to be had renting cap space!

  190. Apparently per D. Aldridge the Knicks wanted L. Aldridge to play center, and he don’t wanna do that.

    …means ‘Melo WILL be at the 4.

  191. Apparently per D. Aldridge the Knicks wanted L. Aldridge to play center, and he don’t wanna do that.

    …means ‘Melo WILL be at the 4.

    I think it means Aldridge didn’t want to waste his time meeting with the Knicks, so he let them down easy. “It’s not you, it’s me.”

  192. knicks were two days behind everyone else in realizing this…. i am bracing myself for some really crappy signings…

  193. Forget about the crappy signings.

    Are you ready for one more crappy 17 wins season?

  194. Jax should update his pitch to Jordan: Deandre, there’s an excellent chance that Melo will want out. We want to make you are #1 option on offense.

  195. Not sad about Aldridge.
    Lopez is fine at the right price.
    Lopez and Afflalo are fine role players.
    Problem is, we need at least one more primary option.
    Lee only makes sense if all other hope is lost, lol.
    Is Tobias still out there? I’m a fan.

  196. I think the Knicks need to think small steps.
    These big splashes aren’t going to happen.
    It would be ingenious if they are suddenly able to drive Carmelo to demanding a trade, however unbelievable this is.
    Grab a second tier center. Pick up David Lee. Etc.
    All will be upgrades over what they have.
    We can’t turn up our noses at some of these improvements. Seriously Affalo is an upgrade at the 2.

  197. Oooh Lin rumored to be going to Dallas. Seems like a really good fit — take over for Monta Ellis. He’d be their guy to get into the paint and create opportunities for everyone, and Dallas will give him excellent spacing. I think he’ll do really well there.

  198. The problem with the Knicks is whether looking for a GM or a coach or a player, they seem to get people who are nearing their end.

  199. It’s his right to be wooed, but Aldridge should sign already. He’s acting like a diva.

    I don’t want any of the expensive centers! Make the deals (Lee or Hibbert, 1 year deals) necessary to have cap room for 2-3 maxes next year, either the Dynamic Duo or the Triangle of Free Agents. Batman (Kevin Durant?) can bring his Robin along with him, and maybe Spiderman to boot (if Melo wants out)!

  200. Yeah, Dallas does seem like a good fit for Lin.

    Remind me again why we signed Aaron Afflalo?

  201. My source disclosed the following key exchange in NYK – Monroe meeting:

    Monroe: What’s your planned starting 5?

    Phil: You..Melo…Calderon…Afflalo…

    Monroe: Whoa! Stop! Wait just a minute! You realize I’m not a rim protector. I’ll have no energy left for the offense if I have to greet every NBA slug at the rim.

    Phil: Gotcha. One second. (Phil tries to contact Beverley’s agent)

    Monroe checks texts during this time From Bucks: Jabari, Middleton, MCW, Anetokoumpo.. Think about it.

    Phil: If you take 1m less money Greg, I think I could sign Patrick Beverley.

    Monroe: You know I made 4 freakin’ million last season. Right?

    Phil: Yes, you have real character which is why I like you. That’s why I got rid of guys like JR Smith.

    Monroe: You do know I have a DUI in which I urinated all over myself. Right?

    Phil: Checks watch. Oh sorry Greg, I’ve got a meeting scheduled. Willie Green.

  202. Not sad for Aldridge either….never wanted him. I think Frank is right. We need to come to our senses and remember that we are a 17 wins team. I’m kind of sad we didn’t get any of the 3-D players I wanted. But I’ll be happy if Phil uses the money wisely without compromising the future.

  203. I have to be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Arron Afflalo play basketball.

    And I have to be honester, I don’t think I’ll ever see him play. The Knicks aren’t exactly going to be must-see TV during the Afflalo era.

  204. At some point Phil is gonna need to give up the ghost here, and realize that this team ain’t winning shit in 2015-2016, and it probably ain’t winning shit in 2016-2017 either. Now is the time to play the long game, Zenny. Rent the cap space, pick up assets, sadly break the news to Melo that we are going for the long tank game and blow this thing the fuck up. DO IT.

  205. Knicks are going to suck again this year. They should be either taking on bad contracts to get young players/picks like the sixers just did, or they should be using their cap space to create assets by overpaying young promising players to long contacts that will hopefully become good contracts of the players improve when the cap goes up. Afallo on a 1 year deal with player option useless for the long term improvement of this team. We aren’t getting free agents because we don’t have players. Same thing is going to happen next year and the year after.
    Looks like Phil is about a good gm as the last few-no better. And the team still has no coherent plan.
    This team is so frustrating.

  206. Afflalo had a nice season in Orlando. He didn’t seem like a fit in Portland. IDK just trying to be positive I guess LOL.

  207. does anyone else find it odd that one Lopez brother is known for his D and rebounding while all the other can do is score?

  208. Not really. They been playing together since childhood. Sounds exactly how it would work.

  209. Childhood games in the backyard: brook tries to score, robin tries to stop.

    Actually I think I’d pay to watch an all NBA twins 1v1 tourney

  210. @284 damn, stole my thunder.

    On a positive note, here’s one non-deandre Jordan getting outcome for a salvageable off season:

    Sign pat bev to 3yrs/45, stretch Jose, sign RoLo to 3/36 or 4/48. That team would be a 4-6 seed in the east. Given that we don’t have our pick, that’s what to hope for at this point… Actually wait that’s totally depressing

  211. If we gave Robin Lopez $12 million a year we would not have the space to pay Patrick Beverly $15 million per, thank god.

  212. Its not like Teague was an all star when he got offered for Shump. Most people were against that trade anyway from what I recall.

  213. A twitter gem:

    Another thing I’m sure of: Any Knick fan unhappy with the pace of a proper rebuild PAID NO FUCKING ATTENTION FOR A DECADE AND A HALF
    @gbnypat

  214. Phil’s endgame? “Do good”. Really. Obviously there’s no solid plan with alternatives on alternatives. He’s just “playing the field”. “Dont get too crazy”. See what comes to us. Worked out good in the draft. Free Agency, with a bad team, with no one under contract, other teams with cap space, that’s probably not going to work. All the good players get snatched up. Rookie shit.

  215. Gird yourself people, the final cherry on this sh!t sundae will be this: New York Knicks announced today that their prized #4 draft pick is suffering from chronic osteoarthritis of the hip, a condition which often afflicts very thin people.

  216. That proposed Beverly-Lopez Knicks team would not be a 4-6 seed, it would be a team that would struggle to make the playoffs even in the bullshit Eastern Conference. You’re talking about a starting lineup of Beverly-Calderon-Melo-???-Lopez, with Zinger, Grant, Galloway, Early, Thanasis and a pile of dreck coming off the bench. That’s maybe a 35 win team if you squint real hard at it. Robin Lopez is not a good fit here because of the bad rebounding. It’s not like there is another player on the roster who is a competent rebounder.

    I say sign Koufos and Beverly, and use whatever cap space is left to sign another defensive oriented player, either a banger power forward or a good defensive wing. Go for an all-defense strategy with Melo in the Iverson volume scorer role.

  217. there are no combos of signings that would net us a playoff spot next year… even with monroe.. our best hope was 40-44 wins… that’s even assuming that porzingis, grant and galloway net roughly 10 wins…. jordan could get us there but that is a long shot at this juncture…

    right now.. we are looking at a low 30 win season… if we sign beverley we might be less than that…

  218. Why isn’t anyone going after Joseph now to put S.A. in a salary bind?

  219. @297. Koufous is wisely waiting until more C dominoes fall. Then, he’ll get overpaid by someone that missed out.

    If the Knicks do end up with Koufous, I’d rather they then go for a couple of those cheaper guys like on the TSN list, for one year deals. Or, like others have said, rent out the space this year. Embrace sucking, develop the young talent. Try again in 2016 with probably $30+ million in cap space.

  220. You’re talking about a starting lineup of Beverly-Calderon-Melo-???-Lopez, with Zinger, Grant, Galloway, Early, Thanasis and a pile of dreck coming off the bench.

    Oops, I forgot Afflalo. So that’d be Beverly-Afflalo-Melo-???-RoLo, with Calderon, Zinger, Grant, Galloway, Early, Thanasis and the dreck pile.

    Still a shitty team.

  221. Yeah you got

    Cleveland
    Atlanta
    Chicago
    Heat
    Milwaukee
    Wizards
    Raptors

    Charlotte, Detroit, Boston, Brooklyn lurking. Put all the remaining FA on the Knicks and it’ll still be hard to leap those last 4.

  222. @300. I think he’s restricted, which gives teams pause. SA might just match. Remember, no one is actually signing anything yet, at this time. Teams will time the actual signings to get new guys first, then resign guys as they go over the cap.

  223. #288 – DRed, I’m not sure about that. I think people are upset that a target that we thought was in the bag escaped. A lot of it is about the disrespect. We’re not getting LMA or Jordan but both are way over priced at any price. Truth is we need a lot of good players to complement the roster. Now that I’ve taken my Xanax, I think, if we get Robin Lopez we would be alright. Can we get him for less than the max? Maybe and I hope we do because he’s the perfect fit in my mind. Melo and Porzingas will be handling the bulk of the scoring with a dash of Afflalo and whoever’s running point. What we need more than anything is defense and rebounding. The center is just so key to the defense.

  224. If you’re trading Melo to the Lakers, forget about getting a draft pick back in return, because they owe their 2016 and 2018 picks.

    I still like the idea of taking Nemanja Bjelica off Minnesota’s hands in exchange for taking on one of their crappy contracts: Anthony Bennett, Kevin Martin or Chase Budinger.

  225. @278

    Yep, I, too, would love to see Phil embrace the Hinkie Plan. Philly may continue to suck over the next several seasons but by now there’s little doubt that whenever the next LeBron/AD/KD comes along, the Sixers will be well positioned to draft him.

    The fly in the ointment here in NY is an owner who is also in the business of selling massively overpriced season tickets to an increasingly restive fanbase. It’s far easier to base a marketing campaign on an aging, second tier star like Melo than on a vague promise of some indeterminate future. Deep pocketed superfans like Spike & Woody may be smart enough to appreciate the value of the tank but even they will eventually grow weary of dropping a four figure sum to watch a collection of no-talent bums every time they enter the Garden.

    I think the selection of Porzingis shows that Phil has a recognition of the need to “play the long game.” He passed up players widely considered to be more NBA-ready to spend the fourth overall pick on a skinny 19 year old who, by most accounts, is 2-3 years away from being anything more than a limited role player. Unfortunately, Porzingis’ timeline being so out of whack with that of the incumbent 31-year old “superstar” seems to have resulted in organizational cognitive dissonance. Hence the wooing of a 30 year old Aldridge and the overspending for an Afflalo; at best, mere spoonfuls of sugar that have no chance of sweetening the huge cauldron of shit stew simmering at 2 Penn Plaza.

    Obviously, none of us know if these Quixotic sallies into the 2015 free agent market are totally Phil’s call or if they’re being done at the behest of an owner eager to maintain some semblance of “marquee value.” Given my utterly low opinion of Dolan, I tend to think it’s the latter. I want to believe that Phil is smart enough to know the value of the full-on, multi-year tank but that he – or any other Knicks GM – will never be given free rein by the owner to pursue it.

  226. The fly in the ointment here in NY is an owner who is also in the business of selling massively overpriced season tickets to an increasingly restive fanbase.

    This is true, but on the other hand, Dolan is worth eleventy seven jazillion dollars. He can afford a couple of seasons of less than stellar box office receipts for Knicks games. And anyway, the Knicks sucked massive dong last year but were still 4th in the league in attendance. Even a pointy-headed dolt like Dolan should realize he’s better off tanking for a couple of seasons and then really being in a position to win something is better for business than puttering along winning 30 games a year for decades at a time.

  227. Beverly is restricted, so no bargains there.

    Koufos is better than nothing, and could be pretty good value in this market. But he and Afflafo would be New York’s least sexy signing since Koch signed the Gay and Lesbian Ordinances, closing the bathhouses downtown.

  228. So far I’d say the draft didn’t suck and included a really nice trade. The first signing didn’t suck. The Knicks don’t seem to have screwed up anything they were trying to do and had a realistic shot at doing. There’s still a chance that they can acquire very good players. The anxiety from uncertainty about what comes next is there, but the Knicks’ decision making hasn’t sucked.

  229. Even a pointy-headed dolt like Dolan

    hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe……

  230. I like Phil. I still think it was a good move to get him. But lets not get crazy here and, again, pit him against Melo. He knew he had to keep Carmelo to take the job (hey Sacramento!). So I’m assuming he liked him enough. He’s not going to turn around and try to force Melo out. I think his intentions were really to contend last year. And they are the same this year. The Porzingis pick was a nice move, but it was a counter move to bad luck in the lottery. It wasn’t a, ‘oh, now that we suck we should try to REALLY suck the next 4 years that I’m here. Do you honestly think if we get Russell or Okafor we are clearing the decks to have a “proper” rebuild?

    In theory I can get on board. Have a competitive team, but at the same time build for the future. I’m not a big fan of sucking and collecting assets indefinitely. How are the young players on your team supposed to get any better in a losing, unstable environment? Anyway, I don’t think there’s any rift between winning now or later. He wants to do both. It’s hard. And he’s shitting the FA period.

  231. In theory I can get on board. Have a competitive team, but at the same time build for the future. I’m not a big fan of sucking and collecting assets indefinitely. How are the young players on your team supposed to get any better in a losing, unstable environment?

    Excellent point. You would have to feel that Philly would want to start taking some big strides this year, because you can guarantee they will struggle to keep those ‘assets’ around if there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

    Truth be told, as long as we can put together a team that is at least interesting to watch and competitive that should do in the short term. To be honest, some of the deals that have been handed out have made me glad we have missed out on a couple of guys. So much of the rhetoric here has been not making dumb moves, and so far Phil has been alright on that this off-season (depending your thoughts on AA. I personally don’t hate it). It sucked we missed on Monroe, but end of the day Phil can only put out what he’s got to FA’s, which outside of Melo, MSG and a blueprint of his intended direction, aint a lot. The decision is still up to the player, which is really out of any exec’s hands. Short of roofieing FA’s and having them wake up in a hotel room next to a signed contract and wearing the teams uni, I would imagine it would be difficult to get any kind of guarantees especially if they are meeting with a few teams.

  232. Yeah, assuming Melo stays thru this season tanking next season is a waste and a slap in the face to the fans because of not having the 2016 1st rd pick. I dont want them to do anything stupid long-term wise this off-season but seeing Afflalo only get a 2yr deal it seems like Phil is looking at it the same way. I hope the Knicks make enough decent moves this summer to at least put out a competitive 30-35 win team next season with hopefully the young players getting alot of playing time and experience which would lead to a better, more positive outlook going into the next off-season.

    Regardless I like most of us here will still watch all the Knick games next season because if we could make it thru watching the 2nd half of this past season we can make it thru anything lol.

  233. We have a #1 pick in 2016. His name is Guillermo Hernangomez.

    If you name the family pig it makes it harder to eat it. I guess the same holds true for naming draft picks?

  234. Doesn’t coach Fisher have any pull with anybody? Durant? I thought he was greatly respected and was going to help us get somebody good? He’s gonna be coaching us another couple years while we keep sucking? I hope we can get Thibs to come help. We’re going to have to get amazingly lucky somehow to not be bad for quite sometime. Zinger better be great. Maybe Tobias Harris can be solid. Lopez for defense. Lopez, Melo, Harris, Afflalo and Calderon with Zinger, Grant, Schved, Cole, Early off bench could be a bottom 4 playoff team in the east. Stay reasonably competitive, don’t give away anymore draft picks and hope and pray we get lucky.

  235. Fucking Bargs man. It all goes back to Bargs.

    BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGSSSS!!!!!!!

  236. Trade Calderon to Denver for Ty Lawson and the rights to our pick. If Denver’s desperate enough to get rid of him do we do it?

  237. No. It all goes back to Glen Rice. All of it. Trading Ewing for Rice rather than letting his contract lapse put us on a treadmill to Hell that we have never been able to get off of.

  238. While we’re at it, trade a second to Toronto for Stiemmsma, Hansbrough and the rights to our first. Toronto bites?

  239. Does Guillermo get better the more games we lose?

    No, but he doesn’t get worse if we win a few meaningless games either.

  240. Not offering the max to Monroe because they think they are going to get Jordan , if that’s what happened, is just plain stupid. Jordan is on a good team now who can pay him more money than the Knicks (or anyone else). Why would he want to come to the dumpster fire that is the Knicks, for less money at that? No chance they sign him.

  241. I’m starting to think Phil didn’t even do due diligence here. I have no problem missing out on the big name types (Monroe, Gasol, Aldridge, etc.), but Ed Davis and Brandan Wright both signed multi year deals on the cheap, and Thomas Robinson signed with the Nets on the mega cheap. I know our situation is far from appealing, but I have a hard time believing we couldn’t have at least some of these guys think twice, even if it involved offering more money. Obviously we know very little about what actually happens, but I don’t like sitting around waiting for DeAndre Jordan to announce he’s not signing with us while intriguing players come off the board at more than reasonable prices.

  242. Woj says we are discussing a contract with RoLo for around $12-13 mil per, but the Lakers are also a possibility for him.

    On the one hand, he’s a good defender and would allow the team to play more lineups with Melo at the 4. On the other, if all of Phil’s moves involve us devoting most of our cap space to Afflalo and Sideshow Bob?

  243. @326 – that was my biggest problem with the whole process… there were tons of moves going around because everyone knew who their realistic targets were and made sure they tied them up as quickly as possible…

    it just seemed like the knicks were spending their energy on the wrong guys…

  244. At the risk of sounding like a broken record here, Sideshow Bob can’t rebound, and Zinger can’t rebound either, and neither can Melo, at least not at good NBA power forward level. Who is gonna get the rebounds?

    Wait, I know the answer to that. The other team.

  245. well… the best rebounder left is by far cole aldrich… but i think we’re probably gonna look in brandon bass’s direction…. who is another guy who doesn’t rebound…

  246. Yeah, I mean, he’s not perfect. But he’s better than Aaron Afflalo. At least he plays some defense.

    Also, Cole gets all the rebounds. Duh.

  247. @329 Exactly. Portland knew they weren’t going to be players for the “big boys” so they secured three good, young players for a while (Aminu, Davis, and Plumlee). Memphis clearly spent a lot of time on Wright, who I think will be great for them. Even fuckin’ Brooklyn identified two guys (Larkin and T-Rob) who are young with some upside and locked them up to tiny deals.

    We have Arron Afflalo for $16 million.

  248. Can we still trade for Lee if we sign Lopez? Under a little-known charity provision that allows teams who really suck to make one last trade to put them ridiculously over the cap?

  249. Since Phil is missing everyone and everything, what about plan B?

    What are the status of some D-Leaguers like Khem Birch, Seth Curry, Willie Reed Jr?

    Add some of this guys and keep the flexibility.

    We are goink to suck next year anyway.

  250. I’m not a big fan of Lopez, but if the can get him for around $12m, that’s fine. As to his rebounding, I read somewhere that his #s are a bit deceptive b/c he had good rebounders around him that kept his #s down. I don’t know if that’s true, though. At this point I’d rather try for Koufous at $8m or so (though who knows if that would be enough).

    I’m still onboard with the “tear it all down and rent space” club, but whatever happens, happens.

    As for Phil’s supposed plan, my guess is that he targeted Monroe and Carroll. Monroe seems obvious since they met with him at 12:01. They flat out lost him to a better team. Carroll apparently met with Toronto first and jumped at the $15m offer, cancelling all his other meetings, inc. the Knicks. Fine for him, since the Knicks weren’t gonna offer him that. I’d guess Monroe $15.6 and Carroll would be offered around $12 or so.

    I hope he realized from the get go that he wasn’t going to get Aldridge or Jordan, but why not talk as part of a Plan B/Plan 2, esp. after Monroe went with Milwaukee?

    Lopez is probably part of Plan 9 from Outer Space. :-)

  251. What we’ve learned: Nobody cares about playing in New York, nobody cares about playing with Carmelo Anthony, nobody cares about playing in the triangle and nobody caress about playing for Derek Fisher.

    Good players want to play with good teams who have a chance to win and aren’t a perennial losers and laughing stocks.

  252. no idea on the math on a david lee but if it nets us kevon looney.. i think we kinda have to do it…

  253. I just wonder if it’s feasible to swing trades to get our missing firsts back.

  254. @329 Exactly. Portland knew they weren’t going to be players for the “big boys” so they secured three good, young players for a while (Aminu, Davis, and Plumlee). Memphis clearly spent a lot of time on Wright, who I think will be great for them. Even fuckin’ Brooklyn identified two guys (Larkin and T-Rob) who are young with some upside and locked them up to tiny deals.

    We have Arron Afflalo for $16 million.

    Larkin and T-Rob are terrible. You should know this having watched Larkin be terrible here for a whole year. And T-Rob couldn’t find playing time on Sacramento.

  255. @326

    They didn’t have a real contingency plan. They did their homework on the draft- Zinger, JGrant and the 2nd rd pick all went around where they were slotted.

    Not for Free Agency. I’m guessing they thought NY, Melo, Phil and dollars would be enough to have free agents fighting each other to come here. Guess what, other teams have money, nice enough cities, and talent in players and FO. You should know you’re not getting the biggest names. You should know you probably won’t get somebody who’s restricted. It’s been about 24 hrs since they should’ve started going for the second tier guys. I mean, waiting on Lamarcus Aldridge? Who is a bad fit anyway? Lol.

    Either the old man didn’t have enough time, or he was too arrogant/ignorant to do the due diligence.

  256. Wow, the hand-wringing here is off the charts. I mean, who cares if we didn’t lock up Aminu or Davis? And T-Rob? Larkin?

    I’d rather keep the space and see how things play out with what we have and D-League call-ups. None of the guys that we lost out on were coming her no matter who was GM.

    Lopez is marginally a $12-13 million dollar player, not necessarily good value at that price, but not much of an overpay either. If we sign him, fine. If not, we have cap space for trades.

  257. Yeah I’m not sure what all the hand-wringing is about either. Monroe was a big loss, but other than that we haven’t really struck out on guys we were expected to get. In fact, this is largely what was expected to happen; Howard Beck did a piece for bleacher report earlier this year in which he predicted Afflalo, Lopez, and Thad Young as the Knicks signings this off-season.

    Call me an optimist, but there are still ways to get this team to a competitive level next year. If we signed Lopez, we could probably do a Lee for Calderon swap, which would seem to benefit all parties involved. If we could get Looney or Ezeli too, great, but I’d do it straight up honestly. A Melo-Lee-Lopez front line with Porzingis off the bench is pretty decent. We’d be thin at guard, but could probably sign someone like CJ Watson or Lin with the room exception.

    At any rate, the Knicks should bring in some average players and try to be as competitive as possible next year without hurting future flexibility. Both the Afflalo and Lopez deals would seem to do that, as would a Lee trade.

  258. Z-man, they have a bunch of cap space, no team, and they’re apparently letting players come to them. That’s just no good. Let’s say it was a playground game being set up. Wouldn’t you want to pick first? Rather than take whatever’s left?

  259. “I do think that New York holds a high regard in players and agents that have contacted us. We have no lack of agents that have contacted us for their players. We still think that we have a really good chance to develop a team.”

    -Phil Jackson, 2015

  260. Sure I’d like to pick first, but that’s not how it works. Ultimately, players usually go where they want to go unless someone can grossly overpay them (see: Jeremy Lin.) Monroe could get the max from like 5 teams, and he chose the Bucks because he saw them as the team with the most win-now and later potential. Him being smart doesn’t make Phil stupid. Demarre Carroll, pretty much same thing and he’s probably overpaid. Most of the other guys either stayed with their current teams or were not ever a realistic target, or simply weren’t that good to worry about missing out on.

  261. my main gripe was not signing ed davis since he’s much better value than lopez right now…

  262. Larkin and T-Rob are terrible. You should know this having watched Larkin be terrible here for a whole year. And T-Rob couldn’t find playing time on Sacramento.

    Whiteside couldn’t find playing time on Sacramento either. Seriously, in the age of Jeremy Lin and Hassan Whiteside, people need to stop advancing this as any kind of argument. Per 36 last season T-Rob put up around 14-14. Scoring hasn’t come along yet but he’s still young. He’s great value at the minimum for any team, and especially for one as talent starved as ours.

    As for Larkin, I didn’t even necessarily want him back but to deny that a second year player who was great in college has any upside is just being naive. He made some strides towards the end of last season and it annoyed me because I knew he’d probably be a decent guard for another team.

  263. Wow, the hand-wringing here is off the charts. I mean, who cares if we didn’t lock up Aminu or Davis? And T-Rob? Larkin?

    I’d rather keep the space and see how things play out with what we have and D-League call-ups. None of the guys that we lost out on were coming her no matter who was GM.

    You’d rather keep the minimum space T-Rob took up? Ed Davis is making significantly less per year than Arron freakin’ Afflalo. How about that space? That’s a major screw up on our part. Aminu is making only slightly less, but do you really think that money is better spent on Afflalo?

  264. Better value? I mean, even the putrid Lakers didn’t want him. What we don’t need to do is sign players, even low-cost players, who have high basketball IQs. Davis doesn’t qualify.

  265. I think Demarre is worth 15 mil a year now.

    If you had a chance to get Monroe, get him.

    Aminu, Ajinca, Davis were very interesting options.

    The problem is we have no one on the team. And the talent pool is getting awfully shallow.

    I hope it gets better, and we get the cream of what’s left.

  266. Better value? I mean, even the putrid Lakers didn’t want him. What we don’t need to do is sign players, even low-cost players, who have high basketball IQs. Davis doesn’t qualify.

    I really don’t get all these appeals to the authority of dumb teams. The Kings didn’t play T-Rob, so he’s bad. The Lakers didn’t want Ed Davis, so he’s bad. That’s not how this works. Smart teams steal the undervalued players from dumb teams while the dumb teams chase around LaMarcus Aldridge. Ed Davis had 12.7 points, 11.7 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks per 36 last year (and he played 1840 minutes, no small sample size) with a 60% TS. He’s 26 years old, plays a position of need (which is any position), and is being paid less than Arron Afflalo. There’s just no way to chalk this up to anything but our front office fucking up.

  267. Seeing that no big free agents are signing here and that we will indeed suck next season, I think Melo should demand a trade. It’s highly unlikely that we get our 2016 pick back, but we should cut our losses and try to get some youth to build around. Melo is going to look at Derek Fisher and Phil, then see that his help for next season is Calderon, Afflalo, and Robin Lopez (if we sign him). I think that’s enough for Melo to demand a trade, because this team isn’t winning more than 30 games with or without Melo.

  268. I honestly, seriously, absolutely am not blaming Jackson for these free agent meetings not going the way the Knicks want them. That said, as a complete coincidence, I just put up a basketball legend about how the legendary coach Adolph Rupp ended up talking a recruit OUT of playing for Kentucky during a home visit and I couldn’t help but think about it here.

  269. Has the Summer League roster been announced yet? It’s like..a week away right?

  270. Yeah I mean Lopez at 12 is likely better than Monroe at 15 for the absolute present (I think RoLo is better on D and boards than Monroe is on O, or pretty much even.)

    It’s just that Ro Lo won’t contribute to any meaningful playoff games ever, but that’s ok.

    Afflalo isn’t my 1st choice, but it was a well-priced signing, and he’s a good enough 3rd option.

    It would be nice if we could get one young player on the rise like Harris (local kid) but in order to get that, you have to overpay, which is risky.

    We’ve got Zinger and Grant and maybe Greek Freek 2 as projects, so we don’t really need too many more. Focus on growing these and add one or two more when it’s prudent.

    There’s no use losing sleep over cheap bench parts like T-Rob. There will be others just as good or better at those roles in Europe, the D League, or elsewhere.

  271. Stein reporting that Lopez is Knicks bound as long as DeAndre Jordan isn’t

  272. monroe trounces rolo on the boards.. not close… his entire value is good defense and efficient low usage offense…

    and looks like we got rolo in the fold barring a jordan miracle…

  273. Boy I’d feel like a dick if I had to commit but wait if my employer got something better before they signed me. Wow. Shitty position to be in.

  274. Boy I’d feel like a dick if I had to commit but wait if my employer got something better before they signed me. Wow. Shitty position to be in.

    I was about to say, RoLo is a starting quality center. No idea why he’s on board with this arrangement.

  275. I am pretty sure that a lot of people here would have nixed the idea of signing a lot of these guys that we’ve missed out on at some stage over the last 12 months. Now that they are going elsewhere, it’s as if we have missed out on signing LeBron to the vet minimum. The FA pool was pretty shallow this off-season, so if we come away with some handy players on some unoffensive deals, that’s probably a win in my books.

    Interesting reading on twitter Lopez’s approach to signing with us. Apparently he’s happy to sign with us, pending if there is a spot there after Jordan decides what to do, hence why there isn’t a lot out there at the moment on the specifics of the deal.

  276. Monroe is better on D boards because Monroe doesn’t play man D lol. He happens to be standing around waiting for the ball. It’s called “DavidLeeitis”.

    I’ll take Ro Lo plus the extra 3k.

  277. unless we can follow this up with someone like lou williams/stuckey and aldrich/withey/oquinn instead of beverley/bass… we can get to 36-38 wins in my estimates…. but i think we’re about capped at about 44 and that’s with a lot of generous assumptions…

  278. PG: Grant, Calderon, Shved
    SG: Afflalo, Galloway, Ledo
    SF: Early, Melo, Thanasis
    PF: Melo, Porzingis, Labeyrie
    C: Lopez, Cole, Amundson

    Order the ringz now.

  279. You got to get Galloway in the starting 5 so someone on the floor can rebound.

    I’m not even joking.

    Sigh.

    I will say this, at least Phil isn’t doing some Kings shit, which is what we’ve been doing in the past.

  280. The cap is supposed to be at 27-29. If Lopez is at 12-13 and Afflalo at 8, there’s still room for another piece. Ironically, West would actually fit pretty well in that lineup at 8 mil for a year or two. I’d still throw an 8 per offer sheet at Corey Joseph.

  281. What RoLo at 12M means is we have 9M left for a third free agent. or 9.5 M for two. So we can add some depth. I’m looking for two players now: a rebounder and a pure scorer.

  282. PG: Grant, Calderon, Shved
    SG: Afflalo, Galloway, Ledo
    SF: Early, Melo, Thanasis
    PF: Melo, Porzingis, Labeyrie
    C: Lopez, Cole, Amundson

    Yep, this is very likely what the roster is going to be looking like tomorrow morning. Oof.

    Okay, so it the likely above thing happens the Knicks will probably sign RoLo for what, like 3/36? That would leave about $15M in cap space, correct? That still leaves you some wiggle room to do some potentially creative things. What are the weaknesses of that roster– well, terrible rebounding, for starters, and severe lack of depth at the wing position. The ideal players to fit into that roster would be a good defensive wing and a center/forward who can really rebound. Any ideas?

  283. yea a c/pf and a guard who can score would make this a pretty successful offseason all things considered…. like being snubbed by all the top flight FAs…

  284. Wait a minute, no, duh, they have like $9M. Hmm, I guess that maybe puts the dampers on the “take on a bad contract for an asset” strategy.

  285. I’m not sure why people think the Warriors are desperate to trade Lee. They said they’d be open to a trade, but they have no reason to straight up give him away.

  286. I don’t love the Lopez signing. Lopez might be a legitimate starting NBA center but he is a below average one. I would rather have taken chances on players not yet at their peak then give Lopez 12+ million a year.

    Missing out on players like Ajinca, Davis, Wright, etc isn’t heartbreaking but it shows a pattern. We are never the team to sign the undervalued free agent we always pay full price or more. Look at Wright and Ajinca and Davis’s stats and then compare them to Lopez and Jordan. The stats are comparable. I’m not saying they are as good but they have never gotten the chance to be starters and play major minutes. Maybe they wilt maybe they thrive but either way they are worth the risk.

    We are terrible and a bunch of solid but ultimately mediocre signings like Afflalo at 8 mil and Lopez at 12 mil aren’t going to change that.

  287. so we are either getting deandre, and we are out of $$, or sideshow bob, and we have like $7m / yr to spend. that has to be on a 3. who is out there?

    Maybe a typo, but I read Wes Matthews will sign for $5M anally for 3 years. Time for a new agent, or would you take that deal (keeping in mind he is coming off a serious injury)

  288. He was offered 16mm per by Sacto and he’s rejecting it to go play in Dallas.

  289. Maybe a typo, but I read Wes Matthews will sign for $5M anally for 3 years. Time for a new agent, or would you take that deal (keeping in mind he is coming off a serious injury)

    Yeah, if your agent is making you sign the deal anally, it’s time for a new agent.

  290. Missing out on players like Ajinca, Davis, Wright, etc isn’t heartbreaking but it shows a pattern. We are never the team to sign the undervalued free agent we always pay full price or more. Look at Wright and Ajinca and Davis’s stats and then compare them to Lopez and Jordan. The stats are comparable. I’m not saying they are as good but they have never gotten the chance to be starters and play major minutes.

    I tried getting at this earlier but was promptly told those guys couldn’t be good players because their stupid teams didn’t think so.

  291. see, i might take 3 mil / year annally, for 3 years, but i want that last year to be player option. cause, maybe then i’d decide $10M is enough. or maybe i wouldn’t.

  292. The upcoming Lakers Kingz bidding war for Rondo is gonna be awesome

    Provided we stay roughly 2,500 miles away from it, sure.

  293. EB, I’ve read the Warriors want to trade Lee as a favor to him. I don’t think we could get any assets from them, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t swap Calderon for Lee. If we did that, we’d at least have a watchable team:

    PG: Grant, Shved
    SG: Afflalo, Galloway, Ledo
    SF: Melo, Early Thanasis,
    PF: Lee, Porzingis, Labeyrie
    C: Lopez, Cole, Amundson

  294. I’d be ok with that…while yes, ‘Melo would be back to a 3, but I think with this group he could do LOTS of damage.

  295. If the Warriors are looking to do the ‘right thing’ by Lee, which leads me to believe they would likely trade him to a contender. That said, he might be content to go to a rebuild after getting a chip with the Warriors. Would love to have Lee back, only because he has remained a favourite Knick of mine over the last decade and nothing else.

  296. Lopez might not be the best rebounder but it sure seem like as soon as he went to Portland everyone else suddenly started rebounding better. Just a coincidence?

  297. Warriors would like to trade Lee because his $15.5 mil is superfluous and with Draymond getting a hug raise the team payroll is bloated. I’ve heard they’re offering Lee + Barnes, but I highly doubt that’s true. Same with Lee + Ezili. Maybe Lee + Looney and/Kuzmic (they don’t have many picks to throw in).

  298. PG: Grant, Calderon, Shved
    SG: Afflalo, Galloway, Ledo
    SF: Early, Melo, Thanasis
    PF: Melo, Porzingis, Labeyrie
    C: Lopez, Cole, Amundson

    Hard to believe it, but this team may actually be worse than last year. Denver/Toronto is gonna go down as the big winner of this years free agency season.

  299. Is Calderon for Lee/Looney even possible salary-cap wise? Isn’t it now impossible to squeeze Lee’s salary in there plus an asset like Looney, even if you remove Calderon’s salary? It’s too good to be true, right?

  300. Calderon is owed the exact same amount as Lee ($15.5), but over 2 years instead of one. Maybe the $7 mil in saving this year is worth it to GS, maybe not. Calderon can still play a little, so it’s not the worst trade for them, but it depends on their budgetary needs.

    Until the Lopez deal is announced, it’s hard to tell what works under the cap for NY, but Lopez ($13) + Afflalo ($8) + (Lee – Calderon ($8) = $29

  301. @388, @393 I couldn’t disagree more. I think that all of these players were properly valued in this market. Lopez isn’t a “steal” by any means, but he is a very solid NBA rotation player, and will be for the length of his contract, barring injury. He fills a position of need. He is not a “horrible rebounder.” He has averaged 4.2 and 4.5 offensive rebounds per 36 in the last 2 years. He was on s top-10 lists in 2013-14: TS%, Blocks%, OReb%. He can shoot FTs.

    Contracts don’t have to be “steals” to be excellent contracts. He fills a void in a very Chandler-esque way. If it’s not the deal you wanted, it doesn’t make it a bad deal. I really don’t get the criticism, given market conditions.

  302. The reason the Warriors are extra motivated to deal Lee is that if they get rid of him without taking on extra salary, they will save fifty million dollars in luxury tax payments next year. Fifty million! So keep a guy who barely plays for you or save fifty million? That’s their dilemma, and it’s why teams out there presume that they are, in fact, desperate to deal Lee despite their general “Eh, whatever, it’s not a big deal to us either way” public approach.

  303. Matthews’ deal with Dallas actually appears to be closer to $12 million per year (with Jordan hopefully taking up the other $19 million in cap space they have). That’s still a lot of money for a guy coming off an achilles injury. I saw a stat where he is third in the NBA in made threes over the last five years, behind only Curry and Korver. That is pretty impressive. The Mavs would also then have their room exception to add a point guard.

  304. Jeremy Lin on a 1-year deal for the room exception to the Mavs would be perfect for both sides if they can nab DJ.

  305. Still, Lin-Matthews-Parsons-Dirk-DJ wouldn’t make them much more than a 6th-7th seed out West.

  306. Agreed, Farfa, but they really seem to be putting a priority on just being competitive in Dirk’s twilight years. I suppose they also think they can add someone else big in 2016, when the cap rises.

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