CBS Sports: Knicks’ Derrick Rose: Remains sidelined Thursday

The report is:

Rose (COVID-19 protocols) will not play Thursday against the Bucks.

Rose missed the Knicks’ final two games prior to the All-Star break due to the league’s health and safety protocols, and he’ll be sidelined once again Thursday. Immanuel Quickley and Frank Ntilikina should continue to see increased run in his absence.

Odd.

Well, the Knicks kicked the Bucks’ ass without Rose, so hopefully they can repeat that!

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127 thoughts to “CBS Sports: Knicks’ Derrick Rose: Remains sidelined Thursday”

  1. Brian Cronin: MVP Rose was on that level (not as good as Lebron, of course, but on that basic level. Lebron is just otherworldly). Sadly, he was only MVP Rose for a season and a half.

    Yeah, I looked it up. MVP Rose was better than I remembered. I remember thinking he didn’t deserve the MVP that year (he didn’t; LeBron was a head better), but that season tops anything you can ever expect from Bradley Beal.

  2. I also have to say 2021 Rose is better than I expected, too. I hate him a little less every game.

  3. Many days later and he’s still in covid protocols? How’s the rule for days out when it’s contact tracing?

  4. For the last thread’s Knicks movie, can we have a cameo of Armie Hammer and Jennifer Lawrence on celebrity row as David Lee and Caroline Wozniacki?

  5. Looking at the upcoming schedule it would seem like we would be lucky to win four out of the next ten games.

  6. Agreed, but then we have @MIN, DAL, @DET where we could go 3-0, don’t you think?

  7. cybersoze:
    Agreed, but then we have @MIN, DAL, @DET where we could go 3-0, don’t you think?

    Dallas has turned it around. The other 2 should be wins.

  8. The recent chatter regarding the effect of three point shooting on the game sort of reinforces the thought that as a team if you shoot around 30% or even worse – you’re going to lose the game. Maybe it’s a good thing that we take so few three point shots. It would stand to reason that we ‘re positioned well to take advantage of a team having an off night behind the arc.

    The combination of this year’s scheduling and the volatility of three point shooting (I’ll be honest, I don’t have any idea about the by game variance and win percentage in team three point shooting success) seems to make it a bit of a challenge to predict game by game winners.

    Which is to say, long may the invisible sixth man reign for the New York Knicks.

  9. Still not watching games, but..

    My Perry takes are that the article implies it Perry is not involved in player decisions; and if he planted the article it certainly could have been on Rose’s behalf. Rose came out smelling like, uh, nice.

  10. Also I think Pepe Le pew was a satire of romantic movie leads, the way coyote was a send up of rah rah America types.

  11. DRed:
    I wonder where LaMarcus Aldridge ends up, he’s better than Blake Griffin

    Wow, just saw that the Spurs are looking to move him. Really unexpected. He’s pretty washed but I would think he’s going to be the best player available via waivers this season (assuming he doesn’t get traded) so their should be a bit of a bidding war for him and he’ll be able to choose where he wants to play. LAL would seem to need him most with Anthony Davis out and always an injury risk. Brooklyn’s probably still pretty desperate for depth up front.

  12. ***I’m pretty sure you could read this [last] thread aloud at an Ionesco convention and receive a standing ovation.***

    Hahaha.

    (KB has been an exercise in the Theatre of the Absurd for as long as I’ve known it)

  13. someone named Jowulz to a fellow reddit/nyk poster: ur too dumb for us go post on knickerbloger

  14. DRed:
    Kristaps looks a lot better than he did a couple months ago

    Eh…D still looks shaky…like he can’t move his feet fast enough and is constantly lunging

  15. Well fuck, didn’t realize there were games on tonight. And fun teams!

  16. Ptmilo,

    Don’t know if you saw but the author of your namesake passed away 2 days ago.

    I’m not sure what else Norton Juster wrote, but I absolutely love Phantom Tollbooth.

  17. On a happier note, Cdiggy that was a pretty sweet cameo you had.

    I figured you’d be off in the background somewhere but you were basically center screen for a solid moment. Any chance you pop up again?

    I honestly didn’t think I’d watch through the whole show, but I really enjoyed it and probably will.

  18. KP always looks better when he hasnt played in a week. He plays really well off of rest.

  19. Dallas has turned it around.

    Half of Dallas’s team was either out because of Covid protocol, recovering from off season surgery and not in shape yet, or came to camp looking like the Pillsbury Dough Boy. They are just starting to get in shape. IMO, they aren’t good enough to make a serious run yet. They still need a 3rd scorer that can defend at a high level. But they are back on track.

    Last night was the first night KP looked even close to being the same player he was down the stretch, in the bubble, and in the playoffs last year. He was driving to the hoop, had an offensive rebound put back slam (that didn’t count because Doncic got fouled), and was asking for the ball in the post and taking contact. All season he’s been less willing or less capable of doing a lot of what he was doing last night. He still takes some ill advised shots, but he’s been pretty efficient for a guy with bad legs, that’s out of shape, and that still takes an occasional dumb shot. Whether it was fear or just recovery from surgery, he seems to be over it…at least until the next injury.

  20. cybersoze:
    Many days later and he’s still in covid protocols? How’s the rule for days out when it’s contact tracing?

    As i like talking to myself, i’m going to answer this. :P

    From HoopsRumors.com: “After being sidelined for nearly two weeks due to health and safety protocols, Raptors head coach Nick Nurse was cleared to return today and guided the team through practice, tweets Josh Lewenberg of TSN Sports.

    So DRose missed the first game on March 2 (tuesday) and if he’s out the same amount of time as Nurse he’ll only be back next tuesday (March 16). Nothing odd about it, after all.

  21. Here’s what KP had to say:

    “I feel like I’m getting there,” Porzingis said. “I still have to keep working. After you get the surgery, the leg is not feeling the same, so you have to keep working on that strength and make sure it’s strong and stable and you feel confident at the end. It’s nonstop work, but I’m feeling better each day and each game, and I’m putting in the work. That just gives me the confidence that I can go out there and play and play freely.

  22. cybersoze: So DRose missed the first game on March 2 (tuesday) and if he’s out the same amount of time as Nurse he’ll only be back next tuesday (March 16). Nothing odd about it, after all.

      

    I think players are also required to have to have some practice time before they are allowed back. I think I read 2 days, but I could be mistaken.

  23. Deeefense: I think players are also required to have to have some practice time before they are allowed back.I think I read 2 days, but I could be mistaken.

    As the Knicks are having so few covid related problems, i have to say i know almost nothing about it. But looking on the bright side, it was good to happen on the All-Star break because this way he misses fewer games.

  24. I think Siakam has been out that long too and he’s still not cleared to play either.

  25. Every time KP plays well, that’s the real Porzingis. The other 3 games where he’s shit are just the games he needs to get back to full strength.

    He’d probably be worth a max if basketball were only played once a week.

  26. Hubert: Every time KP plays well, that’s the real Porzingis. The other 3 games where he’s shit are just the games he needs to get back to full strength.

    Hubert’s sober this morning and he’s publishing the truth

  27. Meyers Leonard fined $500,000 and suspended from team activities for a week. But not cut so far.

  28. Alan:
    Meyers Leonard fined $500,000 and suspended from team activities for a week. But not cut so far.

    I saw 50,000 on twitter, which would be such a ridiculously small slap on the wrist.

  29. You are right, Mike. I misread. Or maybe I just couldn’t believe the punishment would be so light.

  30. Alan:
    You are right, Mike. I misread. Or maybe I just couldn’t believe the punishment would be so light.

    Google says Meyers Leonard has a current net worth of $50 million, but surely a $50k fine will help him see the light. What a ridiculous farce of a penalty.

  31. Mike Honcho: Google says Meyers Leonard has a current net worth of $50 million, but surely a $50k fine will help him see the light. What a ridiculous farce of a penalty.

    its probably limited by the CBA…

  32. Duke had a walk-on test positive and are forfeiting their NCAA matchup. They were a 15-seed, but really, who cares? Why the fuck are unpaid athletes playing this farce of a season?

  33. The whole Leonard thing is just weird and creepy, beyond just the slur. Since I’m firmly of the opinion that the existence of the internet causes thoughts to be in people’s heads that would never get there otherwise, my opinion is that the setting and the activity and the general internet marination both helped put the thought there and obviously helped bring it out, out loud.

    Doesn’t matter in the end, but I’m still not really sure whether the word was really “meant” in any meaningful way or whether it was just, in whole or in part, just the “edgiest” choice of words for a guy who wanted very much to be “edgy” engaged in a performatively “edgy” activity. So it’s all bad. If the internet is helping create anti-Semites, it’s bad; if the internet is helping bring out anti-Semitic slurs in people who might not think or say such things ex-Internet, it’s bad.

  34. They aren’t “unpaid,” the vast majority of them are on very valuable scholarship. Moreover, there would be dozens and dozens of students willing to take their place for free. Playing basketball for your school isn’t exactly working at the steel mill where no one would be willing to work for free the way all sorts of students are willing to “work” on the basketball team. I would have gladly played for free on the Big Ten university team I was almost good enough to make; indeed, the thought of getting paid for it never crossed my head. I didn’t get paid by my high school and I enjoyed the shit out of it (and of course the idea of my high school paying me to play is laughably absurd, even though they made money from my image and my “work.”)

  35. I’m not a Meyers Leonard apologist, but I grew up in New York around lots of Jewish people and I have to be honest, I had no idea that that word was antisemitic. I knew it was a word people might not like to be called, but the specific antisemitism of it? No idea.

    He definitely should apologize, pay the fine etc, but it’s hard for me to overreact to this.

    A little internet sleuthing – he grew up in Woodbridge VA, which has a 0.1% jewish population.

    Personal story – the first week of college, my freshman year roommate – the nicest, literally least-racist/antisemitic person in the world, was complaining about how he had gotten “jewed” by someone — and we were like WTF was that? And he had no idea that that word came from Jew, like Jewish people. Same as people who say they got gypped by someone don’t know that that word comes from gypsy. Anyway he was raised in Ohio far away from anyone that might have taken offense to that word, and his friends used it and so that was it. Least antisemitic person ever, and I know that having lived in the same room/suite as him for 4 years. So long story short, maybe I’m super naive — I don’t know Meyers Leonard at all, but it’s plausible he really didn’t know.

  36. We’re not talking about an innocently insensitive college freshman, though. We’re talking about a 29 year old man who’s lived outside of his parochial hometown for over a decade at this point. If he’s the gamer he seems he is, he’s aware it’s a slur; yelling slurs at your opponents has been the forbidden fruit of a certain strain of online gamers since forever.

  37. E, all merc’d out: They aren’t “unpaid,” the vast majority of them are on very valuable scholarship. Moreover, there would be dozens and dozens of students willing to take their place for free.

    haha ok

    I have to be honest, I had no idea that that word was antisemitic.

    bruh

  38. indeed, the thought of getting paid for it never crossed my head

    Why would it? You weren’t even good enough to play in college. You don’t generate any revenue because no one on Earth would pay money to watch you play basketball. College players that are actually skilled (i.e. not you) are the ones concerned about getting paid.

  39. Mike Honcho:
    We’re not talking about an innocently insensitive college freshman, though. We’re talking about a 29 year old man who’s lived outside of his parochial hometown for over a decade at this point. If he’s the gamer he seems he is, he’s aware it’s a slur; yelling slurs at your opponents has been the forbidden fruit of a certain strain of online gamers since forever.

    I dunno, I’m in my mid-40s and live in NYC area, and I still didn’t know that was antisemitic. The gamer culture is definitely toxic, though.

    Again, not apologizing for him, but IMHO it’d be overkill to do anything but fine him and make him do some sort of community service.

  40. Frank: I dunno, I’m in my mid-40s and live in NYC area, and I still didn’t know that was antisemitic. The gamer culture is definitely toxic, though.

    Again, not apologizing for him, but IMHO it’d be overkill to do anything but fine him and make him do some sort of community service.

    I mostly agree on the punishment, my point is more that 50k is a completely meaningless fine to someone with a net worth of 50 million. He’s already injured anyways so he’s not even really suspended.

  41. This obviously doesn’t apply to every school, but growing up a UK fan all my life and I can tell you. If you play basketball for UK, especially for a decent team, and you’re willing to live in Kentucky you pretty much never have to worry about getting a job. So if you’re someone who is good enough to get a scholarship to UK but not good enough to go pro and play there for 4 years, graduate, and are part of a team that makes a tournament run, you can live in Lexington and always work. Maybe its a salesperson at one of the local care dealerships or working at a bank as a loan officer or managing a restaurant. But the businesses there LOVE having ex players work for them. Its good for business. There’s also coaching high school teams, etc.

    Dismissing the degree I think is dumb. You know how many people would kill for a full ride scholarship to a college? Even a state college that may not be as expensive? Its not nothing.

  42. there is no table of fine amounts, i.e, there isn’t a formal mechanism (I believe) to say “well this was an ethnic or racial slur so it is xxx millions versus the player said the all star game is a dumb idea so that is yyy million”…

    however, informally, since it is probably likely Miami doesn’t pick up the club option…the damage he may have done is in his next contract…the rest of the league will do the internal calculus (cost/benefit) on what they can sign him for vs how pissed off the fan base would be to have him on the bench…so likely he will have to play in a smaller market at a reduced price…that is the informal market based fine…

  43. Hi Alex, I’ll take racial slurs for $200 please. I’m not “up” on a lot of the current lingo, but – that word seems to come from a long gone 1950’s era. I had no idea it was even still relevant as a put-down.

    The only connection I can currently attribute to the use of this word would be with the white supremacy people. Not to immediately jump to the conclusion that Meyers Leonard believes in that crap – but

  44. Why would it? You weren’t even good enough to play in college. You don’t generate any revenue because no one on Earth would pay money to watch you play basketball.

    People paid to get in my games. Thousands of Earthlings paid money to see me play basketball. They don’t and didn’t let fans watch high school games for free. I guess in some places they do, maybe, but certainly not where I grew up. Plus the games were on the radio and they sold programs that had paid advertisements in them. (One game shockingly was even on TV.) Another player and I were the cover pics in the program they sold to buyers and advertisers. They “made money on my image” in every way that term is used.

    So basically any reason you’d pay college players would apply equally to my situation. (And if you want to up the ante to 18 and 20,000 paying fans rather than 2 and 3 and 4, think of Texas HS football.) I didn’t think about such a thing at the time because the idea that we should be paid is dumb.

  45. Meyers can always go play for one of the Texas teams, as my super-quick search of the internet (which is never wrong) and back-of-the-bar-napkin math (also never wrong) says the Jewish population is 0.003 of that state’s overall humanity.

    That can’t be right… although if it is it might explain a few things…

  46. E, all merc’d out: People paid to get in my games.Thousands of Earthlings paid money to see me play basketball.They don’t and didn’t let fans watch high school games for free.I guess in some places they do, maybe, but certainly not where I grew up.Plus the games were on the radio and they sold programs that had paid advertisements in them.(One game shockingly was even on TV.)Another player and I were the cover pics in the program they sold to buyers and advertisers.They “made money on my image” in every way that term is used.

    So basically any reason you’d pay college players would apply equally to my situation.(And if you want to up the ante to 18 and 20,000 paying fans rather than 2 and 3 and 4, think of Texas HS football.)I didn’t think about such a thing at the time because the idea that we should be paid is dumb.

    Please. The NCAA has multiple active multi-billion dollar contracts, money they receive for the right to broadcast college football and basketball. The athletic skills of the players whose games are broadcasted are routinely valued in the millions of dollars in as short a time frame as months later.

    There’s no serious comparison to be made between this situation and the sale of advertising in programs for your high school varsity basketball games.

  47. E, all merc’d out: I’m firmly of the opinion that the existence of the internet causes thoughts to be in people’s heads that would never get there otherwise

    Hey Jowles, is this worthy of a “haha what” or “haha ok”? I’m leaning towards “haha what” :D

  48. Don, I don’t disagree with you, but I’m curious where your cut-off is as to when players should get paid.

    If the principle really is the thing, well, $10 a game is drinking money, as they would have said in my high school…

  49. There’s no serious comparison to be made between this situation and the sale of advertising in programs for your high school varsity basketball games.

    Numbers are smaller, principle is exactly the same.

  50. Captain Fantastic:
    Hi Alex, I’ll take racial slurs for $200 please. I’m not “up” on a lot of the current lingo, but – that word seems to come from a long gone 1950’s era. I had no idea it was even still relevant as a put-down.

    The only connection I can currently attribute to the use of this word would be with the white supremacy people. Not to immediately jump to the conclusion that Meyers Leonard believes in that crap – but

    CF- You’re onto something here. Kike was a slur that I heard often in the late 1950s and early ’60’s and its use had similar intent to the use spic, wop, moulie, and dago. I have not heard these words since college in the 1970’s ( yeah I’m that fucking old, possibly the oldest poster on KB. Wore booty shorts, when we played hoops). And in the classrooms I worked in, I was exposed to many of the latest slurs, and I never heard any of the aforementioned ones. Shocked that it has been recycled and revived.

  51. cybersoze: Hey Jowles, is this worthy of a “haha what” or “haha ok”? I’m leaning towards “haha what” :D

    i think in the 80’s…tipper gore used the same logic when trying to ban rock albums from being sold at kmart to teenagers …ie., they promoted satanic principles and behavior that otherwise wouldn’t be present in the teenage mind absent one listening to Hells Bells…

  52. I don’t have a number, Raven. But I do think when an industry arises around uniquely talented people, the unique talents deserve an honest piece of the action.

    I also think you’d have to be delusional to believe that college athletics are about school pride or that it’s a square deal when players get a (year of) free education, or if some players sometimes get a cushy gig at some Lexington, KY car dealership later.

    Does it seem right and normal that the highest paid employees of some states are college football coaches? Or that Adidas and Nike bid to have their logos on the uniforms these student athletes wear? Or that, plenty of times, money already changes hands illicitly between the schools and the students?

    College athletics is a business that’s in the business of exploiting naive labor. It’s slimy as hell.

  53. Hey Tommy, Pop’s on the phone, he wants Obi and a 1st for LMA. I’m saying YES, right?

  54. E, all merc’d out: Numbers are smaller, principle is exactly the same.

    It’s the same thing like building model cars and what happens at a GM factory are the same thing.

  55. pepper: i think in the 80’s…tipper gore used the same logic when trying to ban rock albums from being sold at kmart to teenagers …ie., they promoted satanic principles and behavior that otherwise wouldn’t be present in the teenage mind absent one listening to Hells Bells…

    Exactly. We have to educate people, not try to control everything to protect (dumb) people.

  56. All I know is I wouldn’t be thinking about the Jewish population of Texas, how archaic the K word is, or how much beer $10 would get me back in the day without the damn internet.

    Okay, I might possibly have thought about the last one without it.

  57. Ingmarrrr:
    Hey Tommy, Pop’s on the phone, he wants Obi and a 1st for LMA. I’m saying YES, right?

    Please, don’t give them ideas! :P

  58. And Don, just to be clear, I hate the college sports industrial complex with great passion, and I won’t follow any of it because I find it such an ugly system.

  59. Another player and I were the cover pics in the program they sold to buyers and advertisers.

    Glory days :)

    Oh man, I had some athletic talent, but, unfortunately I could never slow things down in my mind to be super successful in high school athletics (too much balls and not enough brain). The only thing I was somewhat successful at was running track – gun goes off and you run as fast as possible until you reach the specified end point. I was okay at that.

    I may have had some discipline issues too – yeah, I got kicked off of both the soccer and wrestling teams. I just had issues with authority figures.

    I remember after high school heading to a prep school and signing up for soccer. After the first week or so I quickly decided it was too much like a job and started getting in to “club” sports like rugby and racquetball.

  60. the don nelson era: It’s the same thing like building model cars and what happens at a GM factory are the same thing.

    If the model cars are sold for profit, they’re exactly the same thing. The only difference is scale, just like the only difference between Alabama football and mid-Michigan high school basketball is scale. Mid-Michigan high school basketball wouldn’t be as “entitled to” as much money as Alabama football under the principle (*) — thus Raven’s drinking money comment — but they’d be entitled to some money.

    But this is another one of those things that isn’t really thought out, but instead kind of performative emoted/ internet echo chamber intuited, which is why the word “unpaid” is thrown around when the players aren’t unpaid.

    (*) Nor would a zillion other college football teams, starting with the Ivy League and working down to the Sun Belt, etc.

  61. Raven:
    And Don, just to be clear, I hate the college sports industrial complex with great passion, and I won’t follow any of it because I find it such an ugly system.

    The adults became pigs, to be sure. I’d prefer to de-pig the adults first and give the players a decent amount of walking around money — same to every player. I’m not remotely against that. Just add like $500 a month or something like that to the scholarship. Done.

    The only thing “ugly” about it is the amount of money the schools have hoovered from the system. There’s nothing ugly about the develop both mind and body to their peak levels ideal.

  62. cybersoze: Hey Jowles, is this worthy of a “haha what” or “haha ok”? I’m leaning towards “haha what” :D

    Mix it up. Variety is the spice of dragging strangers for obnoxiously argumentative opinions on the internet.

    pepper: i think in the 80’s…tipper gore used the same logic when trying to ban rock albums from being sold at kmart to teenagers …ie., they promoted satanic principles and behavior that otherwise wouldn’t be present in the teenage mind absent one listening to Hells Bells…

    In 7th grade I, like a good suburbanite, found my burgeoning eDgE in mainstream rap, as well as KoRn, Limp Bizkit, Sublime and a whole host of other shit artists (apologies to adult Sublime fans, who are ubiquitous for reasons I cannot fully explain) and I used to walk up, cassette in hand, to the cashier in the music section of K-mart with all the confidence of a fully-grown Cock Jowles and just blankly dare them to dare me to get an adult to finish the transaction, owing to the robust efforts of Ms. Gore. 50% of the time it worked every time.

  63. this is another one of those things that isn’t really thought out, but instead kind of performative emoted/ internet echo chamber intuited

    haha nice

  64. To the man with a hammer, every opinion that isn’t his is a nail/performatively-emoted internet echo chamber ritualized intuition.

  65. geo: howdy bo :)

    pics or it didn’t happen…

    I could not put my family through that trauma. These were the same type of shorts worn by the ’69-70 chip Knicks. When I showed my students a picture of me in high school wearing them, one of them shouted: ” Booty shorts!”.

  66. The … [smile] … interesting thing is that this:

    Why the fuck are unpaid athletes playing this farce of a season?

    then must be, I guess, what? — not “argumentative”? There’s probably a good cognitive bias word out there to describe this disconnect.

  67. I’m not against college athletes getting paid something but I do think lost in the conversation is the fact that they are getting a free 4 year college education out of it. That’s typically at least 80K value minimum, a lot more if you’re going to a private school like Duke. I think people who dismiss this do so because they think these kids aren’t really taking classes and that does happen. But even if they aren’t actually taking the classes, a degree is a degree. There are jobs that you can’t even apply for without a college degree. Over the course of a lifetime, someone with a college degree will earn close to a million dollars more on average than someone without one. And they’re getting that degree for free, which means no student loan debt. And if they go to a big name program, there is a lot of clout that comes with being a basketball player, even a bench warmer, for a program like UNC or Duke or UK. That clout can open A LOT of doors for you post college. And even if you didn’t learn anything during your time there, there is coaching and broadcasting opportunities available for you that aren’t there for regular folks. Its not like they get nothing out of it.

    So I’m not opposed to them getting a stipend or a small salary on top of the scholarship but the scholarship is a form of payment.

  68. In 7th grade I, like a good suburbanite, found my burgeoning eDgE in mainstream rap, as well as KoRn, Limp Bizkit, Sublime and a whole host of other shit artists

    When I was in 7th grade my favorite bands were Ratt, Dokken, and Motley Crue

  69. I’m not buying that the guy who couldn’t make it as a Big 10 benchwarmer was also such a HS basketball phenom that extra tickets and advertising got sold because he was playing. Sorry.

  70. I feel like folks have really let E’s “people paying tiny amounts of money to watch high school basketball games and Mark Emmert making over $20M a year are actually the same thing” argument slide. Holy shit. That’s one of the most hilariously wrong things ever typed on this board, including gems like “Clyde’s negativity makes the team worse” and “Phil Jackson was good at being a GM.”

    I’m shocked this has to be said, but when the difference in scale is this massive the “principle” is NOT the same. That’s like saying operating a lemonade stand and issuing subprime mortgages are really the same thing, in principal, because they both involve a profit motive.

  71. I’m not against college athletes getting paid something but I do think lost in the conversation is the fact that they are getting a free 4 year college education out of it.

    The reason that it’s lost in the conversation is because there’s nothing free about working for compensation. And Coach K takes home $9.7M a year. So let me rephrase this one for you:

    I’m not against interns getting paid something but I do think lost in the conversation is the fact that they are getting a free resume line out of it.

    Or how about:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2019/03/12/the-most-valuable-college-basketball-teams/?sh=2e810d743225

    So Louisville’s making $30,000,000 a year in profit against $52M in revenue.

    http://louisville.edu/bursar/tuitionfee/cost-calculator/

    Cost per academic year at Louisville: $12,462. Total number of scholarships: 13

    Total benefits extended to players: $162,006. Let’s just assume they get a little extra money from some kind of meal or textbook program. Let’s round up to $175,000.

    175,000 divided by 52,000,000 is…

    0.3% of the total revenue from the Louisville Men’s Basketball program is given to players.

    So… uh…?

  72. Mike Honcho:
    E gonna E. The pattern is the same regardless of what is being argued about.

    you’ll understand when you’re smarter

    “Clyde’s negativity makes the team worse”

    Who the FUCK said this? I want BLOOD MOTHER FUCKER

  73. Bo Nateman:
    Speaking of the internet, there’s an interesting article about a lawyer by the name of Rob Friedman, who has become a pitching guru for MLB pitchers via the use of social media.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/sports/baseball/pitching-ninja-rob-friedman.html

    I don’t know much about baseball and don’t follow, but it’s a very cool story, thanks for sharing.

    And it ended superbly…

    “People have come up to me to get my autograph,” Friedman said. “I’m like, what the hell is that? I’m a freaking lawyer!”

  74. The Honorable Cock Jowles: you’ll understand when you’re smarter

    Maybe when I become an older, smarter philosopher-gambler-lawyer I’ll finally become enlightened, and then I too can float serenely above the cognitive peons, chortling as they mindlessly regurgitate their performative, ritualized internet echo chamber morality plays ad infinitum.

  75. Dink: I’m not buying that the guy who couldn’t make it as a Big 10 benchwarmer was also such a HS basketball phenom that extra tickets and advertising got sold because he was playing. Sorry.

    Even if I take his words at face value, it’s especially fucked up to exploit the labor of minors.

    JK47: When I was in 7th grade my favorite bands were Ratt, Dokken, and Motley Crue

    I’m glad that I never partied with Motley Crue, but also I probably would’ve had a fucking blast partying with Motley Crue.

  76. E, all merc’d out: then must be, I guess, what? — not “argumentative”? There’s probably a good cognitive bias word out there to describe this disconnect.

    haha

  77. The Honorable Cock Jowles: The reason that it’s lost in the conversation is because there’s nothing free about working for compensation.

    This is a bit garbled, but it concedes the point we’re making. To the extent they’re “working,” they’re working for compensation — the scholarship. Most of them would “work” for not even the scholarship as they do in leagues like the Ivy League. Why? Because it’s not “work,” just as something like training for the NY Marathon and running it for free isn’t “work.”

    You think the adults make “too much money” from college sports. That’s it. Join the crowd. The rest is noise. For the vast, vast, vast majority of NCAA athletes, their sport is just an extracurricular activity at school, just like my high school basketball team was. The people who you’re “concerned” with and who you apparently should drive across the board policy aren’t even the tip of the iceberg, they’re a thimble in the Pacific.

  78. That’s one of the most hilariously wrong things ever typed on this board, including gems like “Clyde’s negativity makes the team worse” and “Phil Jackson was good at being a GM.”

    I’m 62. I saw the championships. If you say anything negative about Clyde you should probably be damned to hell, but I’ll leave that up to God to make the final call.

    Phil wasn’t the GM. Mills was. That was one of a number of problems they had.

  79. NCAA student athletes aren’t getting a “free education”. The entire system is geared so they can coast by without actually having to take basic college courses. Grade inflation, student proxies, etc. are par for the course in many of these athletic programs. Many can’t even devote the requisite time to study and make grrades even if they wanted to gain an education with the heavy demands that college coaches place upon their student schedules. This is to say nothing about the fact that these educations aren’t even guaranteed and these colleges/universities can drop these student athletes the moment they become expendable due to injury or other circumstances. So, in a nutshell, these “free educations” are neither “free” nor are they much of an “education”…

  80. JK47: When I was in 7th grade my favorite bands were Ratt, Dokken, and Motley Crue

    I’m older (and wiser, of course) so in 7th grade i was listening to R.E.M., The Smiths, Jesus and Mary Chain, Joy Division, … and only after that i turned to punk-hardcore! :P

  81. Barrettcuda: The entire system is geared so they can coast by without actually having to take basic college courses. Grade inflation, student proxies, etc. are par for the course in many of these athletic programs.

    Only in a tiny number of sports at a tiny number of schools. Probably less than 1% of total NCAA student-athletes. And even that’s overblown; I lived in the dorm for 1.5 years with the freshman/soph football players at an extremely good football school and there were some true, good/excellent students among them. And also some not so good ones, obviously. I’d probably make the scholarship good for as long as they want to use it, but a lot of those guys probably wouldn’t use it post-football anyway and now 30-odd years later that’s probably even more the case.

    A lot of guys go to the big football and basketball schools to play football and basketball. That’s absolutely true and has been true for decades. Around the time of all the conference realignments, the adults in charge decided to break the norms and the informal understandings that were in place among all the stakeholders and to monetize the everliving shit out of big-time college sports. That was an awful, gross, repellant thing, but turning college sports into pro sports is not the answer.

  82. “’I’d probably make the scholarship good for as long as they want to use it, but a lot of those guys probably wouldn’t use it post-football anyway and now 30-odd years later that’s probably even more the case..”

    In those cases, the scholarships they recieve is mostly student aid, not full rides. So, again, they’re not getting free educations. And even even only 56% of these students in Division 2, for example, get any scholarships at all. But the schools still make money off their labor. This whole “student-athlete” excuse the NCAA uses to wash its hands clean of criticism is a bunch of nonsense.

  83. Hubert:
    Every time KP plays well, that’s the real Porzingis. The other 3 games where he’s shit are just the games he needs to get back to full strength.

    He’d probably be worth a max if basketball were only played once a week.

    Porzingis is what he is.

    This year he’s averaging 24.4 point and 10.2 rebounds per 36 with a TS% .581 playing on 1 1/2 legs while having no off season or camp. His numbers (including 3p%) are all higher after the predicted slow start just like last year. Most of his missed games were at the start of the season because of the off season surgery (9) and a couple were back to back games when they didn’t want to push the leg yet.

    Everyone knows the story.

    He’s a very high injury risk that has spent time playing at less than 100% while recovering from surgeries. but when he’s healthy he’s an all star caliber player. We got DSjr (which turned into Derrick Rose) and what will probably be 2 mediocre 1st round picks for him. Hell, the Mavs even turned Hardaway into a good 6th man. He may even be tradable.

  84. hmmmm, seventh grade: earth wind & fire, aerosmith, the bee gees, the eagles, elton john, pink floyd and zepplin were probably what i was most in to at the time…

  85. He’s a very high injury risk that has spent time playing at less than 100% while recovering from surgeries. but when he’s healthy he’s an all star caliber player. We got DSjr (which turned into Derrick Rose) and what will probably be 2 mediocre 1st round picks for him.

    We also gained the benefit of not paying him a max salary to be either always injured or recovering from an injury. We signed a better player for less money who is actually able to stay on the floor and doesn’t come with a perpetual “I’m recovering from an injury” excuse.

    The two first round picks were just gravy.

  86. We got DS Jr, 2 first round picks, and the cap space to sign Julius Randle and Marcus Morris, who turned into Quickley.

    That’s one of the best trades the Knicks ever made.

  87. the louisville revenue sharing example is a startling example and demonstrates well the inequity…

    but, do you only compensate those college athletes involved in revenue generating activities?

    i think the ncaa just made some changes this year (maybe they’re only proposed) which would allow athletes to profit from their likeness – still, doesn’t address the revenue gained from tv and gate sales…

  88. geo:
    hmmmm, seventh grade: earth wind & fire, aerosmith, the bee gees, the eagles, elton john, pink floyd and zeppelin were probably what i was most in to at the time…

    Good stuff! ;) So, dream on…
    Yeah, sing with me, sing for the year
    Sing for the laughter, and sing for the tear
    Sing it with me, if it’s just for today…

    PS: Where’s Captain Fantastic? Maybe you should be both, something like “Captain Fantastic (aka geo)” :)

  89. geo:
    hmmmm, seventh grade: earth wind & fire, aerosmith, the bee gees, the eagles, elton john, pink floyd and zepplin were probably what i was most in to at the time…

    ….ditto…sprinkle in some rod stewart, billy joel, stones…who and chic (freak out)…..

  90. JK47: We signed a better player for less money who is actually able to stay on the floor and doesn’t come with a perpetual “I’m recovering from an injury” excuse.

    And we got a leader, instead of a diva. That has a lot of value.

  91. I’ll leave it to the NBA and Heat to decide what to do with Leonard. I grew up in NYC. I had plenty of Jewish friends and co workers. I heard that word plenty of times and knew it was derogatory but never had any idea exactly what it meant until I looked it up this morning. To me (an Italian American) it was kind of like calling me a WOP. You knew it was derogatory but it wasn’t like a spear to the heart. If you called me idiot it would have been worse. Times were different then though. Ethnic slurs and ethnic jokes were thrown around like Jokic passes. They came from everywhere, People could tell when it was just trash BS talk and when it came with venom attached and acted accordingly. My “guess” is that no venom was attached in this case, but I could easily be wrong.

  92. But the schools still make money off their labor.

    It’s not “labor” to begin with and forcing it into that template makes the whole thing fall apart. The tell should have been when all the people line up to do the “work” for free and do things like talk about the “work” being some of the best times of their lives. People don’t line up at steel mills to work for free.

    And even even only 56% of these students in Division 2, for example, get any scholarships at all.

    Yet even without a scholarship, they’re still lining up to do the “work” for free. Just like people run their asses off in Central Park for the NYC Marathon — again for free. It’s bizarre that with all the evidence staring all of us directly in the face, people still deny the concept of playing sports for the joy of the competition and effort. Nike makes money hand over fist because there actually are dedicated amateur athletes in the US.

  93. Deeefense:
    I’ll leave it to the NBA and Heat to decide what to do with Leonard.I grew up in NYC. I had plenty ofJewish friends and co workers. I heard that word plenty of times and knew it was derogatory but never had any idea exactly what it meant until I looked it up this morning. To me (an Italian American) it was kind of like calling me a WOP. You knew it was derogatory but it wasn’t like a spear to the heart.If you called me idiot it would have been worse.Times were different then though. Ethnic slurs and ethnic jokes were thrown around like Jokic passes.They came from everywhere, People could tell when it was just trash BS talk and when it came with venom attached and acted accordingly. My “guess” is that no venom was attached in this case, but I could easily be wrong.

    Feel the same way… I don’t even think the story needs covering anymore… but I’m “guessing” the same as you…

  94. geo:
    the louisville revenue sharing example is a startling example and demonstrates well the inequity…

    but, do you only compensate those college athletes involved in revenue generating activities?

    i think the ncaa just made some changes this year (maybe they’re only proposed) which would allow athletes to profit from their likeness – still, doesn’t address the revenue gained from tv and gate sales…

    It sounds like their proposal is to take a bunch of the money that goes to non-revenue women’s sports and give it to Jaylon Suggs and Jaylen Waddle.

  95. We signed a better player for less money who is actually able to stay on the floor and doesn’t come with a perpetual “I’m recovering from an injury” excuse.

    We could have signed Randle (which I was in favor of and still liked coming into this year even though most people here gave up on him and wanted him traded) and still signed Porzingis later. I said at the time that would have been a great pairing and still think that. Instead we traded KP for trash and put mercenaries into the extra space. I fully understand the risk aspect of that decision, but we got our heads handed to us on that trade. If we were too afraid to give him the max, at least get fair deal. But we were still off in La la Land thinking a tanking team could sign the best free agents and gave up asset value for extra space we could not use effectively.

  96. Dude, Dallas is looking to trade KP possibly. He can’t stay healthy.

    Let me ask you this. Would you bet $1000 right now that KP won’t have another leg injury within the next year?

    Maybe he won’t. But I bet you wouldn’t take that bet.

    And sure, we could have signed Randle. But we probably wouldn’t have. And even if we did, if we had both KP AND RANDLE, then we probably don’t sign Morris, which turned into IQ.

    So really its IQ and two first round picks plus cap space. If we had KP and Randle right now we wouldn’t have IQ, we’d only have 1 first round pick this year and we’d have far less flexibility moving forward. And Dallas has basically the same record as us with LUKA on their team cause KP is eating up so much cap and can’t stay healthy. What is the point of a max player who gets injured all the time and then has to work his way back to being good for a month or so only to get hurt again?

  97. BTW, based upon my own research, college student athletics is began to resemble our modern college sport industrial complex with the ascendency of the famous Carlisle Barracks Indian School run by Pop Warner that gave us Jim Thorpe and many other great First Nation football players in the twenty years between 1896 and 1917. Before then college athletics were really reserved for sons of priveledge who participated in university sports as a part this Victorian era aristocratic culture fostering athletic competition as an enobling enterprise that instilled manly virtues of leadership, teamwork, and fortitude necessary in training future civic and political leaders. Then Carlisle, a modest technical school created to Americanize First Nations people around the country, burst on the gridiron football scene, and they totally modernized gridiron football under Warner in the late 1890s, reinventing the sport with the forward pass. Warner and the university made loads of money off these Carlisle Football Indians until the Jim Thorpe pay to play scandal broke out and shut the university’s football program down.

  98. KP never has an off season or camp. THAT’s the point.

    He just isn’t worth the money bc of that reason alone. Its quite simple, Janis, I mean Deefense.

  99. “It’s not “labor” to begin with”….

    This is a claim without a premise. As a lawyer you should know better.

    “The tell should have been when all the people line up to do the “work” for free and do things like talk about the “work” being some of the best times of their lives. People don’t line up at steel mills to work for free.”

    Your entire argument here is based on a fallacy that a task which generates profit isn’t work if people enjoy it, which is nonsensical when applied to even your own example since a person at a steel mill isn’t technically working if he/she enjoys what they are doing.

    “Yet even without a scholarship, they’re still lining up to do the “work” for free.”

    Um, but they aren’t doing the work “for free” – they’re just not getting paid for it. Difference.

  100. The Ewing stuff is sad but his response is hilarious.

    The Pitching Ninja is amazing and he easily has made the largest contribution to making baseball cool in the last few years. Mandatory follow on Twitter.

    There are so many aspects to the college sports grift. It’s not just the exploitation angle. The non-revenue niche sports have major equity issues also. A lot of slots go to upper middle class kids who are undeniably talented but also have opportunities not available to most of America.

    It’s not something that really can be argued. College scholarships do have value and the vast majority of college athletes are blameless and don’t generate any revenue. But that’s simply not the case for basketball and baseball, especially when you factor in the extent to which success in those supports drives donations.

  101. Barrettcuda:
    “It’s not “labor” to begin with”….

    This is a claim without a premise. As a lawyer you should know better.

    “The tell should have been when all the people line up to do the “work” for free and do things like talk about the “work” being some of the best times of their lives. People don’t line up at steel mills to work for free.”

    Your entire argument here is based on a fallacy that a task which generates profit isn’t work if people enjoy it, which is nonsensical when applied to even your own example since a person at a steel mill isn’t technically working if he/she enjoys what they are doing.

    “Yet even without a scholarship, they’re still lining up to do the “work” for free.”

    Um, but they aren’t doing the work “for free” – they’re just not getting paid for it. Difference.

    They line up to do the “work” knowing that the wage is zero. And then they do the “work” for that wage. There’s no hint of duress, force, intimidation, etc. — the opposite, really. Walk-ons who make these teams are ecstatic notwithstanding the “work” they now owe. Walk ons who try to make the team and then get cut are often despondent, notwithstanding their liberation from the potential “work.” (Raises hand.)

    Hard to see what more empirical evidence would be necessary to prove the point. People line up to do the “work” of running the NYC marathon, also televised, also willingly for no monetary compensation. Same thing.

    And the “work” doesn’t actually generate “profit.” These are non-profit entities. They generate “money” as do all manner of non-profits. “Money” is not “profit.” The fact that money is involved in these enterprises doesn’t turn them into steel mills. Again, we have agreement that they’ve been overly monetized and that the people in charge appropriate too much of the money for themselves. But…

  102. They line up to do the “work” knowing that the wage is zero. And then they do the “work” for that wage. There’s no hint of duress, force, intimidation, etc. — the opposite, really.

    Charles Koch himself, ladies and gentlemen!

    And the “work” doesn’t actually generate “profit.” These are non-profit entities. They generate “money” as do all manner of non-profits.

    It is Charles Fucking Koch, you guys!

  103. They line up to do the “work” knowing that the wage is zero. And then they do the “work” for that wage. There’s no hint of duress, force, intimidation, etc. — the opposite, really. Walk-ons who make these teams are ecstatic notwithstanding the “work” they now owe. Walk ons who try to make the team and then get cut are often despondent, notwithstanding their liberation from the potential “work.” (Raises hand.)

    You could marshal this argument in support of a $2 minimum wage or any other number of awful practices. Willing participants don’t render a system ethical, unless you think society should be structured such that all jobs are done for the absolute least amount of compensation someone is willing to accept.

    And the “work” doesn’t actually generate “profit.” These are non-profit entities. They generate “money” as do all manner of non-profits. “Money” is not “profit.” The fact that money is involved in these enterprises doesn’t turn them into steel mills. Again, we have agreement that they’ve been overly monetized and that the people in charge appropriate too much of the money for themselves. But…

    I have no clue what you’re getting at here. What is being used to pay Nick Saban $9M a season?

  104. thenoblefacehumper: Willing participants don’t render a system ethical, unless you think society should be structured such that all jobs are done for the absolute least amount of compensation someone is willing to accept.

    Willing and ecstatic participants render it no only ethical, but commendable. Running the NYC marathon for free is a noble, commendable activity looked at both objectively and subjectively by the vast majority of the participants.

    You could marshal this argument in support of a $2 minimum wage or any other number of awful practices.

    You couldn’t because no one’s happy to work for $2/hour and you can’t support yourself above the poverty line at $2/hour. But playing amateur sports isn’t done for economic reasons and economic returns. Even if you gave a high school basketball player a stipend, that wouldn’t be his/her motivation to play.

    I have no clue what you’re getting at here. What is being used to pay Nick Saban $9M a season?

    The same thing that’s used to pay the salaries of the CEOs of the Red Cross and the NY Stock Exchange and the Ford Foundation and other nonprofits — the money the non-profit takes in (net of expenses, of course). The revenue teams really should be thought of as “The Duke University Mens’ and Womens’ Non-Revenue Sports Foundation,” as they essentially are and then the idea might be easier to understand.

  105. Re: Ewing, the level of disrespect this franchise has for former players, and in this case a HoF (not once, but twice) with the jersey on the rafters, is baffling. Thank God, Ewing reacted gracefully.

  106. I wish that it were in the main area of the arena so he could point up to his jersey while telling security to fuck outta here.

  107. Good stuff! ;) So, dream on…
    Yeah, sing with me, sing for the year
    Sing for the laughter, and sing for the tear
    Sing it with me, if it’s just for today…

    honestly – i think the song Big Ten Inch Record alone counted for probably 90% of sales…i remember as kids how we all laughed at and loved that song…

    yeah, back to just geo, fun to be someone else for awhile…but, also fun to get back to the normal role i play here on our site: goofy as fuck, with lazy syntax…

  108. E, all merc’d out: Willing and ecstatic participants render it no only ethical, but commendable. Running the NYC marathon for free is a noble, commendable activity looked at both objectively and subjectively by the vast majority of the participants.

    You don’t get paid for running marathons, much like you don’t get paid for playing basketball, because you just aren’t that good at it.

    Top runners do get paid for running marathons. Nice try though.

  109. Top runners do get paid for running marathons. Nice try though.

    But the vast, vast majority of runners are perfectly content to run for free (*), thus entirely supporting the concept of amateurism against all its ill-informed critics — including, kind of comically, many of the amateur contributors to Knickerblogger who themselves don’t make a dime for their writings and yet still write on Knickerblogger. Go figure.

    (*) Actually, they don’t even run for free. There’s a big entry fee, so thousands of people run and train for a marathon for like negative two thousand dollars. And there’s also a lottery to even get in and the ones who miss the lottery are typically bummed, notwithstanding their liberation from both the “work” and the entry fee.
    (Again raises hand.) Nike has built an empire on the desire of amateur athletes to train and compete for the love of the sport. In sort of typical fashion, a small faction of people are projecting their impression of “exploitation” on the “exploited” people (thus depriving them of their agency) who feel exactly the opposite of exploited.

  110. Porzingis has three years left on his contract at like $36M AAV.

    Sorry but I’m not sad we’re not paying that dude $36M to perpetually rehab whatever knee happens to be fucked up that day

  111. E, all merc’d out: But the vast, vast majority of runners are perfectly content to run for free (*), thus entirely supporting the concept of amateurism against all its ill-informed critics

    Athletes at top NCAA programs are not the vast majority of athletes. You’ve asserted that a distinction exists, but failed to provide any guidance on what creates the distinction or makes it relevant to this case. You’ve also failed to give any reason why we should classify student-athletes as amateurs rather than professionals.

    World class athletes playing for Duke, Kentucky, or other top flight programs certainly have more in common with world class marathon runners than the “vast majority of runners” have in common with the top runners. Athletes in these programs, much like the top runners, will not show up if they don’t receive compensation in some form. Right now the NCAA restricts this compensation to education-related expenses.

    The issue, one you seem happy to dodge, is the NCAA has formed a cartel that limits the compensation available to its athletes. If marathon organizers joined together and refused to pay runners money, then antitrust laws would kick in and dismantle the unfair restraints on free trade. The core issue is that the NCAA wields monopsony power to depress wages, or remove them altogether, from deserving athletes. The desire of students to play basketball is not relevant.

    The NCAA should not alone be exempt from antitrust laws.

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