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173 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.02.10)”
Good morning, fellow Knickerbloggers!
“I can now confirm that neither of us are the crème fraiche oozing out of Charlie Meadows ear that’s the most best at words.”
If anything, maybe only the last three words are true for this forum. But I’m not 100 percent certain of that, either.
Instead of thermal exhaust port, can we nickname KAT “womp rat” because he isn’t much bigger than 2M and he’s easy to target?
Didn’t watch the Celtics game live but holy shit does KAT look like garbage on defense. Are we sure we won that trade? I don’t know how you cover for his defense against Boston.
Of course we did. Randle’s defense is barely any better and KAT’s offense is far better.
“Of course we did. Randle’s defense is barely any better and KAT’s offense is far better.”
Well, it *was* better…….until he got banged up. Then significantly worse overall.
If we played Randle at C, he’d also look better on offense. And much like Randle, Towns cannot play C for a championship level team. His defense is that bad.
KAT shouldn’t have played Saturday. He had no mobility and it’s obvious he’s not right
I know he’s not a good defender when healthy but I’ll give him a pass for the Celtics game. Should have been in street clothes.
Shingles vaccine side effects knocked me out for most of the weekend, so I wound up not watching any of the Super Bowl at all, other than Kendrick at halftime. Between the lopsided game (between two teams I don’t care about), and what I’ve heard about the commercials, sounds like I missed little.
My girlfriend has been pushing me a li’l bit to get the Shingrix. What do I need to know?
I enjoyed the Beckham Stella Artois commercial.
Towns doesn’t look right. He looks even worse without OG.
I still need to see a team defense with a healthy Mitch and OG and KAT before sealing the casket.
But yeah, it’s a narrow road to the deep north
Cool as it is to have two All-Star starters, I wish KAT would just take that entire break off. He needs to rest and heal.
I wish that for both of them.
I don’t worry much about KAT playing in the All-Star game. It’s such a low impact game with very little physicality and guys only going at half speed most of the time and he probably wouldn’t be completely resting anyway.
How about not playing him when he is dragging one leg and unable to make an attempt at the center jump?
Sure? Are you sure the Sun will rise tomorrow in the east?
Knicks won the trade for sure, but the next step is probably to move KAT. Hard to see him at another six years at supermax money (*), given his defensive flaws and need to cover them with a space-stifling 5. He’s extension eligible this offseason, according to Sportrac.
Only way patella tendinitis goes away is rest. With Thibs at the helm, good luck with that.
(*) Assumptions embedded: (1) that he makes all-NBA this year; (2) that making all-NBA makes him again supermax eligible.
Did not watch the game Saturday. Sounds like that was a wise decision, lol.
I think it’s clear we are most likely a step below Boston, Cleveland and OKC. It sucks because I think we’re probably the 4th best team in the NBA but the gap between us and them is wide.
Still, there is hope. KAT is obviously playing hurt. OG was out and we still have Mitch coming back.
So I don’t think Saturday is indicative of our best level of play.
But, obviously, if KAT is hurt why was he playing and this comes back to the other looming factor over all of this. THIBS.
I’ve defended the guy. And if we moved on from him, it would be risky. He has clearly established a culture here and has done A LOT for this organization.
But sometimes, you gotta move on from the guy who establishes the baseline in order to get the guy who can maximize what you now have.
The question, of course, is who is that person?
But if we lose in the 2nd round again, especially if we lose because we’re hobbled and injured and depleted, like last season, it’s going to be VERY tough for Leon to justify sticking with Thibs.
Given the choice shingles is obviously worse, but that particular vaccine knocked the crap out of me too.
In 1992 the defending champion Bulls went 4-0 against the Knicks but when they met in the 2nd rd the Knicks forced them to go 7 games before being eliminated. As bad as the matchup looks right now as long as the Knicks are healthy come playoff time I expect a very competitive series vs Boston in the 2nd rd.
The biggest problem with moving on from Thibs is that we just extended him. It would take injuries, an epic collapse after the all-star break and a lost locker room for that to happen. If we go nowhere next year then maybe it starts becoming a discussion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
When you wake up thinking the thread’s gonna be all about Kendrick, but it’s about shingles…
Sure but I’ve seen coaches fired after getting extended or even one season after winning a title. It happens. The team just buys out their contract. Since contracts don’t count against a cap, it’s just a matter of spending Dolan’s money.
The weird thing about KAT is that every time he goes back on defense he tears both his labrums, and can’t lift his arms above his waist. Then he goes on offense and they fix themselves. Then he goes back on defense…
Never really seen something like that. I mean I get trying not to foul, but come on. Raising your arms over your head?
I agree.
Fans put too much weight on small samples of games, especially recent ones. Sometimes they put a lot weight on a single game, which imo is silly. It’s not like we can’t learn something from every game (strengths and weaknesses), but a lot of short term reults are injury related and/or random shooting noise. I think you learn more by looking at the roster, evaluating the players and then watching whether the long term results match your evaluation of the players.
I think the Knicks have a better offense than the Celtics 1 through 5. The difference is their defense is much better and can slow us down but we can’t do the same to them. That’s what makes them better. But imo the net gap is not huge, especially when our two best defenders may be Mitch and OG.
Macri pointed out in his newsletter how the Knicks did a much better job in taking away the Celtics 3s on Saturday but they obviously gave up too many more easy dunks/layups.
Even Tatum was held under control until his end of 3rd quarter barrage, at one point he was 8 for 21 but then hit his last 5 shots. Knicks problem to me on Saturday was more on the offensive end before they just let go of the rope late 3rd, early 4th.
When the entire crowd hit the A Minor lyric it felt like a summit of some kind had been reached in American culture.
Too meta I know, but it’s funny to think about my Thibs take at this remove from his hiring. I actually kind of love him as a coach now that I really know him. The work and commitment he gets out of his players is unreal. The defense is miles better than anything we saw before he arrived other than a brief Chandleraissance. The offense is far better than I expected.
But the thing I really worried about, playing guys too much, overcommitting to the regular season, etc, it’s all still there.
I feel very confident we aren’t a new coach away from being a realistic championship contender. I have never been a coach guy, I think their value is marginal to everything but the narrative, and I am not changing my stripes. So I am ok to just ride it out but understand completely why people feel differently.
I actually kind of like him as a person at this point too. The postgame comments are fun. The vibe seems to fit me being mid-forties. I don’t know, he’s fine.
This isn’t a true contention roster, with or without Thibs. I just don’t think Thibs is a coach you win a chip with, ample evidence to support.
They’re going to have some very tough decisions to make over the next 12-18 months.(*) Question 1 is still whether Dolan/Leon really *want* to contend or whether they just want to be good/very good and fill the coffers of MSG shareholders. Jury still very much out on that question. As things stand now, Leon has accomplished the goal of building the team’s star power and making it very competitive. Do the goals go beyond that?
(*) Starting in the immediate offseason with Mikal’s pending free agency and extension eligibility. There’s no serious sense in which the “Wingstoppers” thing has worked out and even less serious sense that Mikal and OG are going to “shut down Tatum and Brown.” That’s a pipe dream in its purest form.
Mavs owner who got rich by marrying the right person running his mouth about hard work while the guy he traded Luka for gets hurt after less than one game is an incredible sequence of events
I go back and forth on this. I mean, Doc Rivers has a championship as a coach (partly because of Thibs, lol).
I think you’re right that, ultimately, it may not make a difference. There are plenty of coaches that looked like genuises when they won a title with certain teams and then get the aura of being a championship coach when other dudes who are probably better don’t win a title because of the rosters they have or just bad luck.
But then you have someone like Kerr who comes in and clearly takes a good team to the next level.
And, for me, it’s less about Thibs X and O’s and execution. He’s proven to me that he can evolve on that end to some degree.
It’s more, is Thibs running players into the ground going to be the ultimate thing that keeps his teams from going all the way.
I keep thinking “oh this is the season thibs will have a good bench he can trust” and then every season it gets tighter and tighter. He’s been better the last few weeks but man, when are we going to have a 10 deep roster that he trusts?
Apparently the value of LVS is down 7 billion since he came aboard too. Most expensive nuptials in history.
It’s not like you can run a double blind study in the NBA. Did Kerr create Steph? I don’t think so? Did he maximize him? A bit.
I love Kerr and I think he helped but mostly I think he just didn’t get in the way of greatness.
I have been pretty consistent in being concerned that the Mikal and KAT trades painted us into a corner that will be tough to get out of with the current cap constraints.
I’ve always considered KAT a fool’s gold kind of player. Folks can make all the excuses they want about him being banged up, but his issues are very real and are just as real when he is fully healthy. Maybe he works with someone like Mitch next to him, but Mitch also has issues.
Mikal is a very good player but not worth the haul we gave up for him. Again, giving up that amount of draft capital is bad enough in a vacuum, but having virtually no draft capital left afterwards makes things worse. Our bench is also nothing special, and that exacerbates the problem.
In fact, every one of our players has an exploitable weakness. Brunson is good enough on O that you can live with his, if all 4 of the players on the floor with him are plus defenders, but that is far from the case with this team. You are simply not winning the possession battle against the best teams in a 7-game series with both Brunson and KAT on the floor, but you are also not winning with either of them not on the floor.
I don’t really care much about Thibs, this team has a personnel issue.
at least the schedule has given our team some rest lately, the beginning of tomorrow’s back to back notwithstanding…
“I keep thinking “oh this is the season thibs will have a good bench he can trust” and then every season it gets tighter and tighter.”
Apropos of Hubie Brown retiring, still remember his coaching days on the Knicks. Polar opposite of Thibs, wedded to the 10-man, 2-unit rotation.
I know some here will disagree but I still believe if the Knicks keep this starting lineup together for the next few years they will breakthrough and reach the NBA Finals at least once. Obviously they’ll have to continue to tinker around the edges and maybe even trade a starter or 2 but again I think they’ll reach the NBA Finals in the next few years.
That might not be enough for some here and in the end shit even I might not look back at it that fondly if that’s all they accomplish but I’m still looking forward to the next few years of Knicks basketball even as frustrating as nights like these past couple of Saturdays have been.
BBA I’m with you but it just feels too much like the 1990’s where you kind of knew that it wasn’t gonna happen, and at my age, that is not the feeling that I was hoping for.
The one thing that gives me the most hope is Jalen Brunson. This team has not had a real leader since Willis. Patrick was great but he didn’t have the “it” factor as a leader. But leadership has its limits.
One thing that gets overlooked with the Celtics is how freakin’ good Derrick White is for them. He reminds me a lot of Dennis Johnson, a guy who was overshadowed by Bird-Parish-McHale big 3 but who Bird called the best player he ever played with.
White just keeps his mouth shut and makes big play after big play. Seems to never miss when the game is in the balance. Always keeps his cool, never looks animated. And he plays much bigger and tougher than he looks. I remember that folks around the league were shocked at how much Boston gave up to get him, but it has turned out to be one of the great bargain acquisitions of this era. Since they are similar players, it kind of puts the Mikal trade into perspective.
Recent setbacks aside I am firmly in the BBA school. As he says the key is that we should be able to keep the starting line up, all of which are in their primes, for the next few years. That more than offsets the lack of draft capital or financial flexibility. Injury luck or another team having a good play-off run that knocks out a top tier contender will all play a part.
It’s not just JB and KAT, though neither are good defenders. In actual DEPM, OG stands at 98th and Mikal at 172nd in the association. (*) They’re significantly overrated as defenders and have disappointed pretty badly in that area. Thibs’s schemes aren’t that great, but the Knicks have earned every penny of their low standing in DRat and stopping the trifecta.
(*) They’re escaping most of the blame because of KAT’s obvious deficiencies and by their reputations — which have never really added up upon close observation. OG has clear talent in the area and operates well instinctively in small spaces but make him think and move and it’s a different story.
That would entail maxing Mikal for his age 30-34 seasons and supermaxing KAT for his age 32-36 seasons, and not drafting in the first round much between now and 2031. And probably being second aproned for multiple years starting the season after next when Mikal’s extension kicks in.
Not really seeing it. Need the playoffs data point for final determination, but expectations not high.
This just really isn’t an all-in caliber roster. That’s the fundamental problem. Going even *more* all-in on it doesn’t seem to make a lot of basketball sense.
E, the main problem with your posts isn’t the position you take, as doom is often a good bet given how the world works, it’s that it is the exact same drumbeat of doom, repeated endlessly like a bad 1940s Tarzan movie. But even in those movies the drumbeat pauses after a while…
I don’t know, after The Lakers got Luka for AD and one pick, I gotta wonder if Jokic or Giannis or SGA wouldn’t be available at some point for the same price (ie, KAT and a pick). The new second apron and these super maxes for frachise players makes it more likely dudes of that caliber could get moved, especially if they want out. And if that’s the case, we got KAT, who can be marketed to the other team as a good replacement to at least keep them relevant. Not every GM wants to blow it all up and start over when their star wants out.
For the win!
KAT’s got two years left on his deal after this one. He’ll be 30 very shortly after opening night next season. They should shop him around after this season and I agree that some team may take him as the “Anthony Davis” to get out of a supermax they don’t want to pay (or for some other financial reasons along the lines of the ones that got KAT here in the first instance).
Or they can just make a basketball trade where they get more talent in than they send out — which might include taking some risk on a younger player(s).
But the window is very short on that. He’s a free agent, absent a supermax extension, in summer 2027. Time also flies, and he’ll be on the back end of his prime in the blink of an eye. The patella tendonitis is perhaps a leading indicator.
“It’s not just JB and KAT, though neither are good defenders.”
I disagree, and actually I’m not worried at all about OG and Mikal on defense, with the caveat that when your starting 4 non-c’s are OG, Hart, Mikal, and Brunson, you are very small 1-4, and KAT makes it worse for everyone by being such a shitty defender in space, especially when you already have to hide Brunson.
I don’t know if Mitch is the right guy, but bumping KAT to the 4 would push everyone down the line…OG to the 3, Mikal to the 2, where they are much better suited for. Then Hart becomes your 2-4 backup who finishes vs. lineups where size and rim protection are not as critical.
is it safe to hope to see mitch play when we return to games after the all-star break…
Mitch is practicing so that doesn’t seem unrealistic
“is it safe to hope to see mitch play when we return to games after the all-star break…”
Who the f knows with this FO and coach? One would think yes, confirmed by not taking something like that Laker offer for Mark Wiliams, but would I bet on it? Probably not.
Facts. IMO Derrick White is their clear second best player and I honestly consider him the best SG in the league. If Bridges was worth 5 picks he is worth 10. If we traded Bridges for him straight up, we would be a contender. It’s hard to overstate how fucking good that guy is.
Remember Z-man I’m “only” 44 so the 90s were amazing to me as a young Knicks fan! Crazy to think that only Boston, Denver and the Knicks have reached the 2nd rd each the past 2 seasons when the Knicks back then reached the 2nd rd 9 straight years and if you back it up a bit 11 of 12 years.
Obviously just reaching the 2nd rd isn’t that impressive but those Knicks did also reach 4 conference finals and 2 NBA Finals. Still can’t get over losing to Houston, we had that freaking series. Another example of regular season not mattering much, Houston dominated both regular season matchups but Knicks went toe to toe with them in the Finals and really should’ve won that series. Forget Starks Game 7 debacle or Hakeem’s block at end of Game 6, losing Game 3 is the game that still haunts me to this day.
I would love to see KAT and Hart rested for the next two games, and anyone else that is banged up. The main reason is that I want to avoid the Celtics in the second round, and it doesn’t look like they are going to catch the Cavs. So dropping down to 4th would be a good strategic move since it would be based on playing the bench and scrubs more, which would also be helpful in preparing for the playoffs.
It’s not only that I want to avoid the Celts (which I do) but I also think that a playoff series against the Cavs will tell us more about what we need to do than one against the Celts. If we lose to the Celts and they go on to win the chip, well then, you lost to the champs. But if you lose to the Cavs, and then they lose to the Celts, then you are camped in third place, and things become more urgent.
But hey, Thibs gonna Thins so this is all moot.
Crazy part about White is he was only a 34% 3pt shooter in San Antonio but with Boston he’s shot it at 38% while almost doubling his 3pt rate.
dang, i feel like we are doing a sanity/wellness check here DR ed…
please, raise your hand if you have ever questioned what you were seeing or thinking was real…ha…
so what do you think – how realistic is it to expect a “significant” increase in our:
– defense (both at the rim and out at the arc)
– rebounding
– decreased minutes usage for starters
at this point, just to make it to the second round, we may need to start dramatically improving in those areas now…
i don’t know, hopefully we don’t face another hot time in the first round like we did against philly last year…
i kind of remember us playing in one of the best series of the whole playoffs last season…
““is it safe to hope to see mitch play when we return to games after the all-star break…”
Who the f knows with this FO and coach? One would think yes, confirmed by not taking something like that Laker offer for Mark Wiliams, but would I bet on it? Probably not.”
I was pretty sure that we saw mention of March 1 for Mitch sometime over this past weekend.
“Forget Starks Game 7 debacle or Hakeem’s block at end of Game 6, losing Game 3 is the game that still haunts me to this day.”
Yeah, agree. As a season ticket holder at that time, I was in very good seats for game 3 and game 5. I think what also bugged me tremendously was the 2-3-2 format. It made it impossible for us to close out that series at home unless we won 3 straight.
Still, the only reason we were there in the first place was because of the Jordan hiatus…and even then we were a touch foul on Hubert Davis away from being eliminated by the Bulls again. At the end of the day, we just weren’t good enough.
I’m wondering now if josh and KAT are being too “tough” for their own, and the team’s, good…
was hoping someone from the FO would intervene and focus on – um, sustained effective availability this season…
our culture (players) and coach don’t really seem to trend towards reaching the end of the season in the best health possible…
“Thibs gonna Thins”
Oops, this is actually NOT gonna happen, unless Ozempic is involved…
so many admirable qualities in our coach…loyalty chief among them…
at this point though, we already have a strong locker room…a veteran team…
fingers crossed we start off next season with all our player assets available, i’d like to see us transition to an assistant who themselves have previously played…
trying to think if there have been many “big” men whom went on to successful coaching…seems mostly guards…
Clarence and geo out on a hot date makes me smile.
Hope you two found some good food to bond over…
I’m appreciating how many of us are pinning our hopes on Mitch. Who knew he was our savior? The funny thing is that Good Mitch by the playoffs actually could patch a lot of our holes… Bad news (one of them anyway) is that I suspect we won’t know if it’s Good Mitch UNTIL the playoffs, given how long he’s been out and how long he seems to take to get into great shape… which will make for a long stretch of hair pulling and molar grinding.
Phil Jackson
John Thompson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
honestly raven, it really reinforced what an incredible resource KB is…
big thanks to Mike K., BC, and all the folks whom make it as special as it is…
it was wonderful, much like hubie, such a totally dynamic personality…they are just cool people to be around…
hubie and I visited this super old theater in downtown LA and the whole thing was splendid and cool…
got to sit down and have breakfast with clarence (and ray donovan) in this really old LA hotel…
both spots really take you back in time…
i’ll also say, other than it being one of the nicest work environments i have ever visited, as dapper and fresh as both clarence and myself may be able to appear – holy cow, that dude ray should get an award for looking that freaking magnificent at 8 something in the morning…
By Ray Donovan, you don’t mean Liev Schreiber, do you?
Ray Donovan? Liev Schreiber? Huh?
How did you guys happen to sit with him? Seem to be burying the lede, unless it’s some kind of inside thing.
thanks pags, that’s a good list…
I understand what I consider to be a sincere sentiment shared, can be said with frustration, anger at its base…
conflict is not boring, it is costly though…
not that there cannot be humor to be found in despair and depression…
I just personally view them as topics to be treated sensitively…
not to be too weird, I just think there are sooooo many people out there taking their own lives, folks we will never know, or will know…
so yeah, when I read some of the stuff you write, makes me wonder about some of the folks already close to that edge, wondering if it’s worth the pain to be here, or not…
thankfully not in my own nature to look in that direction, know enough to know there are people who do feel that way…
early in the morning, clean suit, well groomed, he was beautiful…
full disclosure, i already confessed my obsession to bestest friend to geo, she didn’t appear too concerned 😊
edit: oh yeah, he will forever be sabertooth to me…
Knecht and the Lakers’ 2031 pick would be a nice haul for Mitch.
I’d rather the Knicks just keep Mitch, but that’d be a nice haul.
we need him as bad as they do, maybe worse…
no doubt they’ll find someone from the buyout process…keep their pick, knecht will develop in to a perennial all-star…
together with luka, win lots of championships…
The trade deadline has passed. So much is going to change with Mitch, Knecht, and both teams between now and next year’s trade deadline that I don’t see much of a point in discussing it right now.
Unless you meant “*would have been* a nice haul for Mitch.”
Celtic losses are really so triggering around here—understandably—but come on.
I looked back at some of their recent losses because the Cs weren’t looking so unbeatable before our matchup:
– Loss to the Raptors 110 – 97 (with almost the entire team healthy) Brown was 4-16, White was 2-9, and Tatum was 5-15 against the vaunted Raptor defense.
– In a close home loss to the Rockets, Tatum was 5-14 and the others weren’t much better. Houston won even with vanVleet and Green going a combined 5-22.
So yeah, maybe it’s a combo of bad luck, other teams “getting up” for Garden games, Boston being a bad matchup, and, sure, maybe some issues with our defense. But it’s no reason to freak out tbh.
ess, not freaking out by any means, just stating the obvious (to any objective observer): Boston is significantly better than us and will be heavy favorites to beat us if we meet in the playoffs. As to the games you posted, I think that Boston definitely is selective as to the games it gets up for. They easily beat the Cavs recently, and ran us off the floor.
Until we show that we can be competitive with the Celts, let alone beat them, that’s my position.
Well the good news is we somehow moved up from 6th to 5th in the NBA Power Rankings, for reasons. Among the bad is that Boston has shot 48% on 100 threes in the two losses.
Also, OG is clearly overrated and undeserving of defensive accolades, and yet “It certainly didn’t help that the Knicks were without OG Anunoby on Saturday. The last four games (starting with the one in which he was injured) have been the team’s worst four-game stretch of defense this season (125.5 points allowed per 100 possessions).”
Are we sure he’s really day-to-day? IIRC last year he was day-to-day for about a month…
How did the NBA All-Star team draft work? Why does Chuck have Jokic, Wemby, and KAT on the same team?! And he also had Giannis on the team before he was replaced by Trae Young!
Meanwhile, Anthony Davis was Team Shaq’s only big man (although, I guess Sabonis will probably replace Davis, so that works somewhat).
Brian, I don’t know, but I suspect there was a secret handshake that Chuck was only drafting foreign players to make an all-foreign team because…
not to get all pfc hudson of the colonial marines or anything, but sure feels like we’re riding an injury tightrope…
i don’t really believe that much in luck, especially with all the health data available…thibs is like a crazy space captain pushing the engines to the max, over a long period of time…
and all the folks in the engine room telling anyone that will listen: you know this shit is gonna breakdown a lot faster from all this use…
suddenly it’s no longer science, just some weak, short sighted coach speak…i have no idea though of their plans for recovery, recuperations, supplement regimen, and device use…
i try hard not to be too jealous in life, but yeah, sure would like some of those gadgets…
on the lead up to one mma athlete’s fight, they mentioned the fighter going to these “booth” sessions that simulated altitude “training”…
passive physical endurance training, i like the sound of that…
plus, without defensive improvement at the 3 point line AND rim protection, we could very well get bombed out of the first round, especially if KAT is not KAT…
hard to play five out, when the five out guy has got a hurt knee and thumb…
Yeah I watched the draft and each team had a theme. Shaq was all the “legends” aka old guys, Kenny was the younger players and Barkley was the foreign guys. He justified taking Mitchell by saying his mom was from Panama.
okay, even i wasn’t too sure abut the passive endurance training thing…
checked some of the higher end units available…it was one of those sitting hard shelled hypobaric chambers…real nice looking black unit, comfortable enough looking chair inside, with lots of glass, yellow tint to everything…
a lot of the home models pretty much look like body bags, i’m okay…maybe they have them somewhere in a clear model at least…
oh shoot i’m out of luck, just read you have to be in shape to survive the training…
Oops.
“Naz Reid has started the last five games in place of the injured Julius Randle, and the Wolves have been at their best (plus 17.2 points per 100 possessions) with Reid on the floor over that stretch.”
i was thinking donovan would be one of the players with the most to prove in an all-star game…
and in this season’s post-season…
forget it now, trae will shoot like crazy…
On the other hand, regarding our competition tomorrow:
“The Pacers have cooled off a bit, going 2-2 on a trip out West, though they remain in fourth place in the East. The trip was the Pacers’ worst four-game stretch of offense (108.2 points scored per 100 possessions) since early December.”
Always loved Naz. We had a thread where I said I’d rather have Naz or Bobby Portis at a discount to Randle and I stand by that.
I am not going to put a single percent of my attention into the All Star game this year.
OG makes our perimeter defense a lot better. That shouldn’t be controversial.
Well, at least they were all great offenses with their best offensive players healthy except for:
* KP
* Jrue
* FVV
* Sengun
* AD
* Toronto sucks on offense anyway
All the defensive stats suck. I know that’s just an ssertion, but it’s so obvious and universally agreed upon, you simply can’t trust them at all.
Using my old gambling model, In a 7 game series I would give the Celtics about a 75% (80% top) chance of winning the series based on both teams being at 100%. That does not include Mitch. If Mitch comes back, plays well and it’s working well with Towns our chances obviously improve. I just don’t know how to adjust for that at this stage. If KP is out, it would help a little. If Horford was out it would help a little. If Holiday was out it would help more than KP being out (Holiday & Horford are getting up there).
Bottom line is they are better than us defensively, but it’s not hopeless and there are ways to beat them even at 100% even though it’s not likely.
I’m not sure why anyone cares which round we get knocked out in. We know Boston and probably the Cavs are better than us. To get to the finals we have to go through them.
Will it really matter much if we sneak by the Cavs but get killed by Boston in the conference finals instead of the 2nd round.
I think what we want out of this season at a minimum is to feel like we are close enough to them that with some tweaks and possible declines by their aging players we can pass them next year. And of course a better outcome would be beating them. It just doesn’t matter much to me which round we take on Boston as long we are giving them hell and feel like we have a chance now and an even better chance next year.
His teams have never defended the trifecta well, consistently bottom third-ish. He does the things where the camera is directly on him well, not so much the other stuff. Big contributor to the Knicks’ crap transition defense.
His reputation exceeds his actual performance. He’s not the first pro athlete for whom that’s the case. Won’t be the last.
He’s 98th in DEPM. Negative in DBPM. If a faction of the fanbase wants to persist in the idea that he’s some massive perimeter stopper, they’re entitled. But it isn’t reality.
The team defensive rating doesn’t lie. It sucks. Their trifecta defensive numbers don’t lie. They suck.
Whatever people are seeing with their “eye test” (biased in large measure because of OG’s reputation) isn’t there when the eyes are off him — a big chunk of defense — and aren’t translating to anything meaningful with respect to the team.
Philly’s playoff ORat last year was higher than their regular season ORat — and obviously far higher than the 2023 playoff opponents’ ORat.
At some point, the numbers become definitive. We’re at that point. If he’s got more in the defensive tank, it needs to come out. Same with Mikal.
I listened to a podcast about the Lakers rescinding the Williams trade. They speculated that maybe the GM and Jeannie Buss made the trade but kept the details secret to prevent leaks. Apparently, the top management of the lakers can keep a secret but once it gets to lower levels it often leaks. They thought maybe the medical department didn’t find out the details until it was announced and that was after the trade deadline. Only then could they review medical data and give inputs. At that point, the trade couldn’t be modified, only completed or totally rejected.
Please prove this.
He was ranked 21st last year and 9th the year before that. So was EPM wrong about his rankings in previous seasons but correct this year?
Please type out what you think Philly’s ORtg was last year in the regular season and in the playoffs.
strat, to each his own. I would feel much worse if we lost to either team in the second round thannin the conference finals. That would be especially true if it’s to the Celtics.
And now after the excuse that they’re too busy covering the lane because of KAT comes the excuse that OG can’t guard 4s and Mikal can’t guard 3s so they need a new center, Mitch, so they don’t have to do that and can guard 3s and 2s instead.
Don’t remember that in the bill of sale that came with either. Must have been in the fine print somewhere.
Just one excuse after another. Graded on the kiddie curve. All avoiding the obvious conclusion.
Go somewhere else with your bullshit
Keep making excuses.
OG can’t cover 4s and needs a center so he can move to the 3 instead. That will fix things. Mikal can’t cover 3s so he needs a center so he can move to the 2 instead. That will fix things.
Complete horseshit. Kiddie curve.
Rethink priors. It’s very easy to do.
Why are you this way? Where did OG hurt you?
I agree right now, Owen, about this team.
But I think last year Thibs actually did personally derail a team that could have won the chip. I don’t want to rehash it but the ’24 Knicks, IMO, were a better coach away from winning a title.
It’s not all Thibs. The medical staff and the organization bear fault, too. But it seems pretty clear he sets the tone here.
When people talk about Leon having a sit down with him, I don’t think you understand how hard that is. The John Mara/Joe Schoen video about Saquon has been getting a lot of play recently, the one where Mara sheepishly says “I really don’t want to lose Saquon” before meekly walking away meekly. And he owns the team! Thibs might have more power in the organization than Leon.
(Noteworthy here is that behind-the-scenes article from the first draft that the Post ran, the one that clearly showed Thibs act like a bully when he derisively referred to Brock Aller as “Hinkie”.)
And it’s great that the players buy into him, but they also seem to buy in way too much. We’ve had so many guys get hurt while playing hurt (Julius Randle even got hurt practicing hurt!). It seems like a toxic culture where players have to risk themselves to fit in. And honestly watching KAT on Saturday really sucked. It made me uncomfortable watching him out there trying.
He didn’t hurt me in the least. Just being objective. I have no personal stake whatsoever in any of these players. I don’t dislike the dude in the least.
The apologies have reached critical mass. Changing standards, dispensing of oft-used metrics. All because of two (one and a half) guys. Untoward. Not really analysis.
Their perimeter defense is bad because their main perimeter defenders are playing bad perimeter defense. That’s an uncontroversial, simple and straightforward conclusion that would be made in 29 other NBA cities and would be made here if it wasn’t this one dude being snowflaked (and another guy being kinda snowflaked).
This straightforward observation has barely registered as even a possibility with the apologists.
He simply hasn’t improved the team’s defense. That was his selling point. Hasn’t happened. Yeah, I know others have failed him (them) yadda yadda yadda. Maybe there’s a tiny bit to that (or maybe not) — but this is a bottom line endeavor.
(And to anticipate what might happen, but probably won’t; if Mitch comes and finally makes the defense better, that will mean Mitch is the proximate cause — not OG and Mikal. We already know what the defense is ex-Mitch.)
E, this is about you. Let’s hear about you. Why do you need so much attention? Sure, let’s say OG sucks. Let’s stipulate it even. Why do you need to make it about you? Where’s that coming from?
The flukish “January Knicks” improvements when OG came on board have long been overtaken by what’s happened after. It’s meaningless at this point. If people are still hanging their hat on that, it’s time to move on. The signal went unconfirmed no later than last year’s playoffs.
I have no idea what could possibly be meant about it being “about me.” What does that even mean? I’m talking about the Knicks team and players. Factually. It’s not about me, it’s about the Knicks.
I’ve never said OG sucks. Or anything close. Stop being so dramatic. His defense was oversold a bit, as was his offense ex-trifecta. I suspected the latter, not so much the former. Wish it wasn’t that way, but I call them like I see them.
I also mused that he might be palatable to Miami in exchange for Butler. So in what way have I possibly said he “sucks”? In no way — right?
[stepping over the flame war]
At the end of the day I want to see Brunson and KAT and Mitch and OG, etc. I like Thibs but I also don’t give a fuck who the coach is. For him to be doing what he’s doing with KAT right now a year after what he did to Mitch and OG kinda pisses me off. And I’m increasingly worried that Brunson might need to be protected from him.
And frankly he’s just not coaching very well, either. He doesn’t suck but he’s not out there crushing it.
We already kicked Randle to the curb, which was cold. It’s not like anyone is sacred around here.
Miami doesn’t seem to be having a lot of problems with Boston.
They just need to get healthy and take their playoff swing. IOW, pretty much what we all agreed on for the most part a few days ago. It’s going to be tough for them to beat the Celtics, absent some Celtic injury or something — but we all knew that already.
If they’re not healthy the “flame wars” and “narcissism” and all this “me stuff about me” are meaningless anyway. So get healthy. Indispensable predicate.
The questions about what to do with this nucleus are for another day and need the playoff data points anyway. They can be sketched out now and mused about, but that’s kind of pointless given the ongoing season.
Boston is not very good when they’re shooting 8% from 3 instead of 48%
I’m talking about you. I’m giving you all the attention you want. So tell me, who is E?
The Celtics circled at Cleveland and at New York, made their point, and went back to sleep.
I suspect E is that guy who scores every point in a pickup game. He’s so unguardable he thinks defense doesn’t actually exist.
OG is really good on defense. Not much else for me to say.
Banana Cream Pie at DuPars is still such a joy!
Can you say when it’s going to show up in any data generated by the New York Knickerbocker defense? Perimeter or otherwise?
No
E is an ancient pharaoh all strung out on henbane, running around the ruins yelling over and over, “So it shall be written, so it shall be!”
Shaddup. And you forgot the hyphen, anyway.
Boston is no longer struggling vs Miami.
Correct.
Poor E…
Btw I laughed out loud when I saw Joel Embiid decided to slip “I need knee surgery” out a few hours before the Super Bowl because he knew no one in Philadelphia would care:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43769623/76ers-embiid-acknowledges-need-another-knee-surgery
Given that NY has KAT and Brunson, but is still an average or above average defense ranking, OG, Bridges and Hadt must be doing something good on defense.
I think the team I’d be most depressed to be a fan of would be NO. Even the Wiz seem to now have a decent front office, but the Pelicans are nowhere. Zion has been hugely disappointing, and that’s worse than just being hopeless.
Boston now giving Miami a drubbing. The Heat are apparently starting Alec Burks? I guess some things are going wrong in Miami.
At least the Wizards changed management a couple years back and are outright tanking in a year with a Flaggship star.
Charlotte just found out its budding star of a center is untradable.
Not just untradeable. If we’re being glad about what we’re not:
“With LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller (out for the season) also dealing with injuries, the Hornets’ core trio will have played just 254 minutes together over two years. For context, Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart and Mikal Bridges have played 1,294 minutes together this season.”
The whole thing with Mark Williams seems fishy to me. He was playing, and playing generally pretty well, not long before the trade deadline and hadn’t suffered any injury that was being reported. It smacks of the Lakers just basically changing their minds and using their “get out of jail free” card by waiting to rescind until after it was too late to change the terms. I write that realizing, of course, that they need a center…….so if they did just change their mind, I’m not sure why.
Oh, what the hell, I don’t know what happened there. But it still seems very odd to me in terms of the timing.
So sayeth the parfait.
So sayeth the idiot.
Yeah, Charlotte would be up there with NO. Not a lot to look forward to.
I’d be frustrated with the Jazz and Bulls, but neither is as grim as Charlotte and NO.
I mean, it’s frustrating to get our asses kicked by Boston, and at the moment the chance of a championship in the next few years is small, but at least it’s a good team of dudes who generally play hard and are easy to root for. No former rapists, no me-first stars, no real drama other than a coach who may injure everyone before we get a chance to find out what we could be.
But Brunson makes up for a lot.
Yeah, we could be Philly, where the star needs yet another surgery while Grimes is outplaying their ostensible #2, even though Grimes just showed up (and is basically just being Grimes).
I agree. It’s like they announced the trade internally to many staff (maybe including Kidd) at the same time they announced it to the world and then got lots of internal pushback of the form of “how are we going to win with a no defense center?”. Since they won’t say what the medical problem was it’s suspicious.
It’s not necessarily a death knell for Williams. The Mavs once traded Tyson Chandler only to have it rescinded because the other party found he had a toe problem. The Mavs went on to win a championship with him a year or two after that.
So sayeth the idiot.
it’s like you are purposefully and continually channeling Colonel Frank Fritz…
doesn’t matter why…
I’ve witnessed when one human becomes fixated on another human, for whateve reason…
it’s ugly, twisted, sick…
please stop if you are able…
Geo, they just need to go on a date. That’s all.
“geo says:
February 10, 2025 at 22:02
So sayeth the idiot.
it’s like you are purposefully and continually channeling Colonel Frank Fritz…
doesn’t matter why…
I’ve witnessed when one human becomes fixated on another human, for whateve reason…
it’s ugly, twisted, sick…
please stop if you are able…”
You’re like the NBA refs who only see the counterpunch that occurs after being punched by another player. You conveniently quoted what I responded back, but you left out the part that your newest, bestest bromance partner began with, again out of the blue: “So sayeth the parfait.” And yes, I *do* know that he was referring to me because he used similar verbiage last night when referring to me.
What the hell is with you, geo? I thought that at the very least, you were a fair person. Wrong again.
And: I have no idea who “Colonel Frank Fritz” is supposed to be.
And: No way in fucking hell I’m meeting up with that idiot.
Well, with a dapper and well-groomed chaperone, of course, Doogie. We wouldn’t want things to get out of hand…
LOL, Raven. Nope, not with anybody, under any circumstances.
I will not meet him in a house.
I will not meet him with a mouse.
I will not meet him here or there.
I will not meet him anywhere!
With apologies to Dr. Seuss. 🙂
I didn’t put rooting for Philly in the same category because 1) they have Maxey, a very good player who’s easy to root for, 2) there’s at least a chance everyone’s healthy at the same time and they make a run. And 3) whatever Morey is, he’s not completely incompetent. Personally I’d hate rooting for Embiid, but I can imagine people who wouldn’t feel that way.
Uh oh, I hope Doogie’s girlfriend from the Niagara Falls area doesn’t find out about Bloody Nine…
“We focus on bouncing back. We focus on that big-time,” Brunson said. “It’s not easy. But we can’t just dwell on what just happened. Obviously, we lost. We got our asses kicked. But how do we move forward from that? We can’t just sit there and feel sorry for ourselves.”
Niagara Falls? Interesting stab in the dark. If I’ve ever been to Niagara Falls, it would have been as a kid. But I don’t specifically remember going there, so probably not even then.
Also, I don’t know anyone from that area. At least, I don’t know anyone that I *know* is from that area. My Mom (RIP) was from very upstate New York, but still several hours away from Niagara Falls.
So I went back and read Hubert’s piece, which was pretty good (back in the injury discussion section before we got into food fights that were the equivalent of Blazing Saddles, with possibly the same number of B-list stars involved) and it did make me wonder if, you know, basketball just causes injuries.
I say that partly facetiously, and I’m in the ‘stop playing so many damn minutes and DEFINITELY give the kids some run at the end of games’ camp. But you look at how EVERYONE is going down about now, or has been for a while. The NBA is the walking wounded, and it feels like that’s the case pretty much every year for the second half of the season.
OG’s out, KAT is really banged up (and probably shouldn’t be playing), and Brunson has a lot of dings that don’t seem to stop him because he’s titanium. But that’s not bad for an NBA team right now. A lot of teams are doing anywhere from worse to a lot worse than we are, and that’s without Thibs. Durant, Luka, AD, Embiid, the list goes on, hell the entire Raptors team is in the hospital, or just got out.
Not even sure what I’m arguing here. Let’s say I’m positing a question.
Luka suddenly and miraculously decided to be healthy again tonight and is on the floor for the Lakers.
he probably chugged a six pack and is feeling no pain..
Okay, well let me trade a healthy Luka in for Giannis, and Kuminga, and Conley, DDV, and Randle, as well as Suggs and Moritz Wagner, Sexton, PJ Washington and Derek Lively and Dwight Powell, LaMelo, Brandon Miller, Tre Mann, Okogie, Josh Green, and Mark and Grant Williams. And those are just from a few teams.
Raven, just so’s you know, I wasn’t correcting you for mentioning Luka among the injured. It just so happened that it was the same time as the Lakers game started, so that’s why I mentioned it then. The two posts weren’t correlated, although I can see why it might have looked as if they were.
I’m getting tired of the Nuggets blowing other teams out lately and sitting Jokic in the fourth quarter. My daily fantasy lineups could be even better. Dammit.
Corrected is how I learn, Doogie. Even if it’s inadvertent, it’s still a learning opportunity. A chance to improve.
That’s how I feel, too. But for sure we are in the minority there. Many people *say* that they feel that way, but when it comes right down to it, they really don’t. C’est la vie.
Luka with 5/1/2 in the middle of the second quarter. Adapting to new teammates, I s’pose.
Take away 3- pointers and the Nuggets shot 79% from the floor
Yep. Jokic shot 86.7 percent on twos.
Irony is fucking dead and you’ve raped its corpse.
Using rape in your bad and incorrect example is fucking sick.
You might want to think about examining some things about yourself if that’s the way that you think. Up to you, of course, but hopefully there will be no harm (either intended or unintended) to anyone else in the meantime.
I’m am shocked, shocked I say, that the Bender reference was missed by its intended receiver.
Seriously? Wow. The only Bender I know was from Futurama, but I don’t remember him referencing rape. Wasn’t a huge fan, so only watched it very sporadically. Not everyone watches everything.
Happy to know that you have read a book that you liked (presumably) – The more that you read, The more things you will know. The more that you learn, The more places you’ll go – get on it Doogie.
Get on what? I read for a living. It’s challenging to take the time to read for pleasure these days anymore on top of that. I’ve already stated that.
Something to learn there
I read and write for a living and I love every minute of it.
Rooms?
I also love it, Clarence. But my “off work” life doesn’t include it, as there are other things I’d rather be doing.
Rooms? Nope. Not my job to do that. Plus, I think it’s largely unnecessary depending on the circumstances. Your mileage may vary, and that’s OK.
Is it your job to make people feel uncomfortable, upset, irritated or defensive?
Nope. Nor does that occur for people I work with and other people in my life who understand reasonableness, anyway.
The reasonablenessator is upon us. Tremble as you gaze upon its terrible splendor. Vapid indifference to rhyme or reason. Just box scores. And chicken. And shrimp.
LOL Other things, too. I did enjoy the rundown of just a few of many things I enjoy, though. It was funny.
Plus, I didn’t say that I was the one who taught or imposed any reasonableness upon anyone. They just understand it on their own.
Clarence on Pacific time makes my KB time less lonely.
I wonder what Larry Lester would have to say about all of this?
Don’t mess with the bull, Donnie…
Pass the tape
Now I’ll have nightmares about Bender the robot raping everybody. Thanks for that, Doogie.
“”Now I’ll have nightmares about Bender the robot raping everybody. Thanks for that, Doogie.”
LOL
And I highly doubt that Larry Lester would bother to have anything to say about *any* of this inanity.
Was that a laugh out loud or lots of laughs
It’s *never* “lots of laughs.”
What a pity
Dr Seuss would have considered you a tragedy, Doogie. I hope you meant that apology because you owe it.
What apology? Oh, the one to Dr. Seuss? Nope, it’s sometimes used as just what one says when one liberally borrows from a famous writer after naming the original source. It’s one way of extending credit to them for the idea. But you already knew that. 🙂
God your are stupid
“The Bloody-Nine says:
February 11, 2025 at 04:23
God your are stupid”
Sure, I’m the stupid one, even though I know how to use commas when a sentence calls for one, use periods at the ends of sentences, and spell the word “you” correctly…….clearly none of which you know how to do. You read and write for a living and you can’t handle those simple things? That explains a lot about why you spend you time farting in airport restrooms and then writing about it on a basketball forum, idiot.
There, I used the word “you” for you a whole *bunch* of times there, even one time where it doesn’t belong so that you can see it more and *possibly* even learn how to spell it correctly. Doubt you can even find the “extra” you, but we can hope against hope that you will learn how to spell it.
You are even dumber than I previously suspected…….
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