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68 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.02.03)”
Well, well, well — now isn’t that interesting?
(Guess what? It wasn’t the first time.)
These few days have been pretty demoralizing. OG; watching the Lakers gifted Luka; losing at home without AD in the mix; watching the Spurs continue to build.
Hope to feel back on track soon. I like to tell myself that two of the picks in the Mikal trade will be gone after this year’s draft. Hopefully without us kicking ourselves too much.
I’m seeing some rumors that the Mavs felt Luka would end up like Embiid. So I get that you get what you can while you can. But still; too little and too early.
I’m seeing some rumors that the Mavs felt Luka would end up like Embiid.
If ending up like Embiid means your 26-28 year old seasons have you 2nd, 2nd, and 1st in MVP voting that’s not so bad.
I’m primarily aligned with you Bernie. I’m just, secondarily, entertaining the other perspective. Dallas made the Finals last year. But the year before that, they tanked to miss the play-in for the Lively pick. And they had that other run with JB because Luka was hurt. Philly and Dallas do seem to yo-yo between contention and the lotto a lot. Again, not saying the deal didn’t shock me or piss me off.
After eons I did listen Bill Simmons’ pod about the trade and they foresaw a smear campaign coming from Dallas to justify the unjustifiable.
I’m not even talking about the basketball side of the trade (questionable as it is), but the assets management side of the deal and the refuse to gauge the market smell of professional malpractice.
Dallas was a sacrifice to boost the leagues ratings.
The league has been falling off since the Curry vs LeBron battles with Cavs/Warriors.
Also with LeBron getting ready to retire soon they need to keep the Lakers relevant on the court. Bad Laker team is bad for business
Still no news about OG?
Speaking of injuries, KAT’s ligament strain is bad enough (Sabonis played with something similar recently) but I think the worst part is the bone chip roaming in his hand with the surgery postponed until the offseason.
Trade for Jimmy Butler? Become a dark horse contender for a few years? If you win 1 championship, no one ever questions you again? OKC pretty much had your number for the next 10 years anyway?
Lots of circumstantial evidence that guys don’t really want to play with Luka. (KP, JB, etc.) Reasonable guess that Jason Kidd, pitbull defender and phenomenal player in his own right, didn’t really care too much for Luka’s bullshit.(*) Luka’s facial expressions and ref-baiting on the floor have screamed “punk” since pretty much the day he came into the league.
I would expect more information along these lines to come out over the next few weeks. It will be deemed “self-serving,” and the like, but it won’t really be.
Assuming they actually play meaningful games together, will be interesting to see how LBJ reacts to Luka’s chucking and lazy defense. (Would have been even more interesting to see how prime LBJ would have reacted, but we’ll have to settle for the 40-year-old version at this point.)
(*) J-Kidd’s reaction to all of this is a pretty good tell. If he starts agitating over the next few weeks, it means he was against it. If he continues apace complimenting his team and co-workers, and the “new culture” and the “great defense,” he was for it. Either way, he’s the polar opposite of a shrinking violet and without question made his opinion heard loud and clear.
I’m beginning to settle on two things about the Luka trade:
1. It truly was an incredible calamity.
2. At its core is my oldest enemy: unfettered groupthink.
Everyone in that Mavs organization had a hate boner for Luka. The video circulating of Michael Finley derisively taking the celebratory beer away from Luka is a good example of this. As is the info they are leaking. (And frankly there is no bigger evidence than the trade itself!)
They formed a little circle jerk club and kept on validating each other’s stupid ideas: Luka’s not athletic enough, Luka’s out of shape, Luka doesn’t play defense, Luka drinks too much beer. And they saw confirmation of their biases everywhere.
And their stupid ideas didn’t just apply to Luka. They applied to Kyrie, as well. That organization seems to be collectively ignoring all his red flags and thinking it’s reasonable to expect the best version of Kyrie when everyone outside of the organization knows exactly how putting your eggs in the Kyrie basket will end (spoiler: not well!).
Within that faulty framework, all their moves make sense. Not shopping Luka around makes sense when you think AD and Luka are comparable bc you have a hate boner for Luka. So does not insisting on the Lakers ’31 pick when you’re blinded by your anti-Luka bias. And wanting to win now makes sense when you’re dumb enough to think Kyrie can be the best player on a championship team.
It was their assumptions that made no sense. They were driven by groupthink, probably with a healthy dose of anti-Euro Player bias.
I’m not a big fan of groupthink either, but within workplaces I generally defer to the idea that if no one can stand a co-worker, the group is usually right. And to a degree it doesn’t matter whether the group is “right” — if they don’t want to work with someone, that’s pretty much it.
The internet attracts people who are attracted to the idea that talents like Luka should just get their way because of their talent, and that the world tends to “misunderstand” that kind of talent and genius and suppress/mistreat it. (*) So you’re going to get a big internet bias in that direction. That’s a big part of what we’re seeing.
Forget Michael Finley. In the real world, they picked J-Kidd over Luka. Speaks volumes.
(*) You’ll find a lot of work from home devotees in that cohort as well. “Just let me work from home by myself, occasionally do a Zoom meeting, never really interact with anyone, and just display my talent/genius, which you must respect and defer to regardless of whether anyone on the workplace team can stand me” is the dominant credo there. Luka is a pitch perfect avatar for that.
I think Z-Man deserves kudos for continually challenging his assumptions here. I also think he’s making great points about why you hold on to those picks, i.e. it’s not because we could have gotten Luka, it’s because something unexpected always happens and flexibility is the key. You should never give up that flexibility for marginal gains (and Mikal, as much as we like him, is a marginal gain, at least compared to what is out there; we just saw Fox go for a comparable, if not lower, price).
One thing I’ve been thinking about: it can’t be a coincidence that Leon made his best trade (KAT) when he was largely out of first round picks. Do we really think that trade would have just been Randle, Donte, and the Detroit pick if Leon hadn’t made the Bridges trade? I am guessing he probably would have thrown in first round picks unnecessarily to close the deal.
You see this all the time with people who inherited wealth: they often give it away bc they don’t value how hard it was to accummulate (ironically, and to my perpetual dismay, this does not apply to Hal Steinbrenner). Leon inherited a trove of picks. He didn’t accumulate them. And he played loose with them from the get go until he ran out of them. Then he suddenly made his best deal ever when he didn’t have excess wealth burning a hole in his pocket.
There’s no evidence that Luka’s teammates can’t stand him. (And don’t suggest Brunson leaving counts because he would have stayed if Cuban hadn’t screwed up.)
I happen to think Derrick Lively and Daniel Gafford enjoyed catching lobs all the time, PJ Washington probably loved shooting open 3s, and the last thing Kyrie Iriving wants to do is carry the load of a franchise.
KP didn’t like playing with him.
Unproven, but plenty of reason to believe Cuban’s lowballing of JB was Luka-influenced. It was weird and un-Cuban-esque from the get-go. Never made a lick of sense. Might be starting to.
Two of the three sidekick stars he had, left him. The third was chosen over him. Speaks volumes.
In terms of the Euro thing, the best player in Dallas Mavericks history is a Euro. Pretty sure he’s still with the organization; if not, he’s still on extremely good terms with it. Just no reason to attribute any of the so-called hate boner to the Euro factor.
Hard to imagine a hate boner at only the organizational-management level being enough to trade a guy. Elite players win that battle 999 out of 1,000 times in the association. Reasonable therefore to assume it also included teammates and his history with teammates.
J-Kidd will be the barometer, IMO. We kind of already know he must have supported the trade because if he didn’t he would already have made it known. But to the degree it’s still unclear, his words and actions within the next few weeks will clarify it. Reasonable to believe he got pretty tired of Luka’s act.
Just saw the Michael Finley clip, hadn’t heard anything about it before. Doesn’t look at all like a disrespectful snatch of the beer; looks way more like a “We’re trying to help you kick the habit and we’re going to keep trying, remember?” reminder.
But whatever the motivation, it clearly shows the depth of them thinking about his act if they’re even uncomfortable with him drinking a beer in the WCF champions celebration locker room. Looked entirely genuine and adult to me on Finley’s part, at least in the clip I saw. Pretty clearly something going on there.
I agree with the point about KAT probably costing more if we had more to offer…otoh maybe it could have kept Donte out of the deal.
I don’t think (and never have thought) that Leon and his team are particularly good negotiators. That was clear in the Spida escapades, where he was bailed out by a better offer from Altman. He has done some really clever stuff, and lots of chalk moves too. The team is very good, very rootable, and very entertaining! But the little errors in execution are real and taken together they impede further significant improvement. But what’s done is done and this is where the real craft of GMing comes in. Teams like the Mavs and Heat have been in this spot before and figured out how to fill in the holes with little trade capital to work with. The hardest work will be between now and trade deadline 2026.
The alcohol use is an interesting perspective. Of course it’s speculation and for all I know the kid has one beer a month!
Ty Lawson’s and Vin Baker’s problems popped up out of the blue and weren’t discussed in the media. Chris Mullin’s career almost went off a cliff.
But from the David Chase doc., there were days when James Gandolfini’s drinking would bring down the entire production of the Sopranos. And when I think of him, I think of one of the great TV actors, not a problem drinker.
Even it’s not drinking, when your superstar lacks professionalism, he brings the org. down with him.
We all agree that the 5 picks for Bridges was an overpay (although not so much at the time of the trade) but I’m still trying to figure out who the guy is that we should have kept our powder dry for?
It’s not Luka since Dallas didn’t open up the bidding, and we definitely don’t need Fox or LaVine. So who is the superstar that we should have waited for? And how long do we wait?
And we’ll never know how the deal with the Nets went down, maybe they walk away if we don’t offer them the 5 picks.
I guess is we somehow win a chip in the next few years all this will be moot.
Even if all this inside info about Luka is true, there is absolutely ZERO reason for The Mavs to not shop him around for the absolute best offer they could get.
Maybe they truly believe getting AD plus one pick was the best offer but I just find it ridiculous if that’s the case.
Yeah, I would also add that Luka probably isn’t an option for us with Brunson already on the team. Not saying they hate each other but JC came here to get out of his shadow.
I don’t care much about the basketball side of the trade, opinions may vary on it and if AD and Kyrie are healthy there’s a reasonable chanche the Mavs are better and more balanced for the short term.
And it’s legitimate to think that Luka is immature, lazy, sometimes selfish, fat, annoying with the refs and doesn’t give a damn about defense (he’s not my favorite player by any stretch).
But if you’re selling a 5-time first team All-NBA in his prime, even with his flaws, you must put up an auction, incite an all out bidding war and extract every asset you can from the trade.
Everything else is a “suspect” (as in “there’s more in the story”) or incompetent behaviour.
People are free to think it’s because Harrison is best buddy with Pelinka, the League drove the trade to raise its TV share, the Mavs had enough of Luka, he’s an alcoholic or whatever.
We’ll probably never know.
De’Aaron Fox is really good.
I’m emotionally preparing for Myles Turner for Austin Reaves.
https://x.com/erikslater_/status/1886396955267359124/video/1
O’Connor says the Lakers are now targeting Mitch. I’m not sure there’s anything we could realistically get back that would make a Mitch trade worth it, though.
I get that the Lakers are the Lakers. LA is a big market and they draw a lot of casual fans.
But Dallas- Forth Worth has a population of 8 million people. It’s one of the biggest markets in the US. The Mavs aren’t exactly a small market team like Milwaukee or Indianapolis.
Giannis with the tampering interview!
From his lips to god’s ears…
FWIW I admit I am completely speculating about the anti-Euro possibility. I think you have to take some wild guesses here because there are few good reasons to not like Luka Doncic.
Mitch for Lebron straight up. Does it work in the trade machine?
There are zero good reasons.
Thinking you can win a chip with Kyrie and AD is the reason they didn’t shop him around.
Getting all narrative about this is fine, I guess. If I’m an opposing gm and I didn’t get a chance to bid on Luka, the lakers have lost their good guy discount. It’s inconceivable to me that the agents of the players were not involved in the trade. How do you do business with these guys again.
Conjecture can be fun, but the Luka’s former teammates sound pretty gutted, actually. Even Kyrie has been wildly complimentary of him since arriving in Dallas, and was apparently blindsided.
I’m sure like literally every superstar, save for maybe Jokic, there were some guys who didn’t love playing with him. But if this were some widespread sentiment a la Jimmy Butler, it would be a miracle for it to have been kept entirely under wraps at this point.
Let’s be honest.
If we didn’t make a move on Bridges and still had those picks, there would 50 posts per day debating the cost of waiting and how we may never find a star to team up with Brunson because other teams have even more picks and better assets to offer.
The reality is that Bridges was a perfect fit, the cost was in part related to his bargian contract, that bargain contract enabled us to land Towns.
One other thing.
IMHO Bridges is better at what he does than Fox is at what he does.
Back to the Knicks…
I was certain I had this team figured out when I predicted we’d go on a dominant run heading into the all star break.
What I completely failed to see is that the stars were lining up for the Lakers this whole time. Their magic is so good it injured OG and paved the way for a dominant performance at MSG on the same day it delivered them Luka Doncic. That was some star over Bethlehem shit that happened to them on Saturday.
Hopefully now that we are out their way OG will be ok and we can get back to normal. But I fear we just ran neck first into a cosmic piano-wire clothesline and got beheaded.
The perfect fit for a team that had Josh Hart, Donte DiVincenzo, and Deuce McBride but no one to play center was not a 4th person to play the 2 guard position.
“But I fear we just ran neck first into a cosmic piano-wire clothesline and got beheaded”
Haha Hubert well said. That game on Saturday was so deflating, I would take a loss tonight over dealing with the “LeBron owns MSG” narrative for the umpteenth time.
It’s just that this whole Luka situation just makes me wish Dallas had gifted *US* an All-NBA point guard in his 20’s, who was in the MVP running last season, and who we could pay $100 million less than the super max.
Oh…
Thinking you can win a chip with Kyrie and AD is the reason they didn’t shop him around.
Exactly. Or more precisely, thinking you have a better chance to win a chip with Kyrie and AD. Because if you cannot execute the AD swap, you need to keep the attempt out of the media
Pretty confident it will come out that they called the Bucks about Giannis and were told no.
There are actually a lot of constructions that work re: Mitch to the Lakers:
1)we can get Vanderbilt + a small salary like OAKAAK Budding Superstar Cam Reddish for him, with us sending Sims and them sending e.g. Wood to 3rd and 4th teams with cap space and/or exceptions.
2) we can send Mitch and Dadiet to the Lakers and Sims to a 3rd team for Hachimura.
3) we can send Mitch to the Lakers, Sims to a 3rd team, and get back Reaves (Lakers would have to send e.g. Cam to the 3rd team and I’m aware this isn’t going to happen, just walking through the possibilities).
4) we can get Vincent and Wood (blech, no interest unless they want to give us their 2031 first).
There might be even more. Again, I’m well aware a few of these aren’t plausible, just making the point that there are a lot of legal constructions.
My honest guess is that if Leon called every GM and said “Hey, what would you be willing to give me for 3 unprotected picks, an unprotected pick swap, and salary filler?” Either then or now, he’d get some intriguing proposals.
I’ve been telling you the reason over and over.
1. Dallas wants to continue to compete for a title now and the next few years. Maybe that’s because of new onweship. Maybe it’s because they think they are close enough after this deal to have a multi year window anyway. They simply did not want to blow things up and start all over with a package of a pile of picks and prospects even if a package like that offered greater value.
2. They wanted a two-way star big man because that’s the best fit with Kyrie given they already had some good defensive 3&D wings and added another in the trade. They can still make another trade.
3. The list of possible targets was basically AD and Giannis. I read a report that they DID contact the Bucks also (supposedly the only other team to be contacted). That has since been denied, but I suspect that initial report was true. It would certainly be logical given what they did.
4. Shopping Luka publicly would have caused a media and basketball frenzy and may have forced them into taking a package of greater value and starting all over instead of going in the direction ownership and management wanted.
What makes this deal suspect is not so much basketball. IMO healthy AD is a great player, a good fit and they added another decent young wing and a pick. It’s the age difference that makes it suspect. They should have been compensated for that more than they were.
Remember, the Mavs know Doncic better than anyone.
There was something they did not like and finally got tired of it.
For the record I’ve been saying negative things about him ever since the KP days. If you watched as much Mavs basketball as I did back then, you would have seen his unbelievable talent on offense, but you also would have seen an out of shape, lazy, self centered egomaniac that looked off his best teammate and threw up trash shots rather than give him an easy basket. KP took the heat for that breakup because Doncic was the superstar, but it was 90% Doncic. He’s not a good teammate, not a real team player (as Josh Hart would describe it), and definitely has an eating and work ethic problem (perhaps partying also). He’s not exactly the ideal guy to have on your team long term once you get past the amazing talent.
He’s the PERFECT fit for our starting lineup. That we need to deepen the bench and need a backup C is a function of bringing in Towns (DDV had to go) and Mitch being hurt. Mitch will be back shortly and we’ll either be fine at backup C or use him to strengthen another area of the bench. This is still in progress.
Good morning, fellow Knickerbloggers!
“Mitch will be back shortly and we’ll either be fine at backup C or use him to strengthen another area of the bench.”
I wish I could be even as half as confident as you sound about that.
I’m curious to hear what Doncic industries has to say about all this.
Love Vandy but his offense makes him difficult to field in the playoffs. Maybe with KAT at C, assuming he can still shoot, Vandy could be viable.
If we got back their last 1st maybe. Rui fits a need but Mitch has a much higher impact.
I think there’s a legit question if LA wants to keep Reaves to pair with Luka long-term. That’s an amazing young core on offense and a franchise crippling defense.
Reaves wouldn’t go to us, but maybe LA gets Mitch and other assets while Reaves goes to team 3. We get something of value from somewhere else.
I wouldn’t mind kicking the tires on those two, but certainly not for Mitch. I’d maybe do it with their last first.
Bridges is good. On these all in moves the proof is in the pudding.
Also DFS for Mitch, Sims goes elsewhere works.
It’s corruption. If you check out the Mavs presser yesterday with Nico the GM he sounded clueless. It seemed like he was being forced to say things to make the trade look good.
I should add one other thing. There was also the issue of giving Doncic the super max. New ownership may not have wanted to commit that much money and time to a guy that’s always out of shape and getting possibly injured because of it.
Maybe but this seems dumb. He’s young. There’s still plenty of time to get him to get into better shape. He’s had some injuries but nothing major. And couldn’t you put some stipulations like this in his new contract?
I mean, I wouldn’t say Jokic is some chiseled Adonis either.
You give a top 5 player who is 25 a super max. It’s not like they couldn’t still trade him later.
The supermax exists to keep a top player from bolting and joining the Lakers. It does not exist as an incentive to trade him there.
Edit: as Swifty said, Luka on a supermax is easily tradeable.
“It’s corruption.”
The Steph Curry shoe fuck-up makes me think it could be mostly incompetence. Doesn’t rule out corruption, but sometimes people are too stupid to realize they’re being corrupt. Or that they should care.
Does make me wonder how this guy still has a job.
So now it comes down to whether LeBron can bully Luka into his workout and diet plan, or if Luka ends up spending his time with Bronny out at the clubs while LeBron sobs his way into retirement…
Don’t see Bronny as a club guy. But that’s based on nothing, and I could be wrong about that. OK, maybe it’s not “based on nothing.” I’m probably basing it on his Dad’s commitment to fitness, etc. Anyone know if Bronny still lives at home?
Yeah, Doogie, probably not, just more about trying to imagine a worst-case scenario for the old man. Luka ‘corrupting’ the lad might do it…
Was watching Duke – UNC highlights for some reason and you know what, everyone is wrong, Cooper Flagg is actually really really good. I don’t generally slurp college freshman too much but his numbers are outstanding and his defense looks outstanding and he is incredibly young.
I excuse any and all tanking because he looks like a difference maker.
I am also head over heels for Tyson Chandler Maluach but that’s just me loving bigs
I don’t generally slurp college freshman too much but his numbers are outstanding and his defense looks outstanding and he is incredibly young.
are we definitely okay with owen suddenly trying so hard to make slurp happen. this is worse than that time haralabob sent one tweet from brighton and strat spent the next two weeks calling everyone bruv.
i don’t think there’s a mitch to the lakers trade that makes sense for us (i’m a tried and true rui hater), but if we were to get burned by sending him out just before the mitchaissance finally arrives, i would really love it for him to suddenly be catching lobs from luka and lebron. i mean damn.
yep, owen was selling hard on that one…
I will only slurp noodles from now on
Conspiracy theory: we are slow-walking the news that OG’s foot injury is a season ender so as not to harm our negotiating position in the trade Leon is working on to bring in depth for this playoffs a la the Bojan/Burks trade last season.
The ‘questionable’ designation is insane on its face, chance of him playing before the deadline is absolute zero.
Looks like Mitch is a goner, but if we we use him to bring in an OG substitute we’re still without a backup center, which hurts even worse with KAT’s thumb slowing him down all season long.
Fred and some other Athletic writers go behind the scenes on the Mavs/Lakers negotiations: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6108360/2025/02/03/luka-doncic-nba-trade-negotiations-lakers-mavericks/
Given the debate here, this is the most interesting passage:
It’s gotta be the Bucks, right?
Speaking of slurping… first thing I’m doing in LA is getting a bowl of oxtail pho at Pho 2000. Korean granny’s doing it up.
Conspiracy theories suck.
There you go.
I appreciate the “Laughing hysterically before slamming the phone down” image this report produces.
Semi-serious question.
If the Mavs had contacted us about a Brunson for Donca straight up swap, would you do it?
If the Bucks had known that Harrison massively undervalued Luka and probably would have included all of DAL’s other assets, I wonder if they’d have been more receptive.
I’m just gobsmacked by the reports that Pelinka talked Harrison out of asking for Knecht and the 2031 because he was doing him a favor taking on the risk of paying Luka.
2024 Doogie would have a field day with Donca! Glad he’s reformed somewhat.
Sorry, I love Brunson I’d drive him down to Dallas myself. Luka is even 2.5 years younger!
Salaries wouldn’t work so we’d have to include Mitch or something. No problem.
Co-sign on the non-use of “slurp” in this context, going forward. 🙂
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