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Knicks Morning News (2024.09.27)

  • Derrick Rose, former NBA MVP, retires after 16 seasons with 6 teams – The New York Times
    [The New York Times] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 10:36:30 GMT
    1. Derrick Rose, former NBA MVP, retires after 16 seasons with 6 teams
    2. Derrick Rose is destined for the Hall of Fame, but that says more about the sport than his career
    3. Derrick Rose’s career is full of what-ifs, but the fact it lasted this long is the real wonder
    4. Knicks’ Tom Thibodeau Reacts to Derrick Rose Retirement: Inspiring to Watch Him Grow
    5. Chicago son to Chicago legend: Derrick Rose says goodbye to basketball

  • Sunrise, sunset: How the Knicks can unleash OG Anunoby & Mikal Bridges on defense – The Strickland
    [The Strickland] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 17:51:25 GMT
    1. Sunrise, sunset: How the Knicks can unleash OG Anunoby & Mikal Bridges on defense
    2. Knicks set to deploy tantalizing defensive stratgey
    3. Tom Thibodeau Compares New York Knicks to Chicago Bulls
    4. Tom Thibodeau Questions His Own Views on Nova Knicks Impact
    5. New York Knicks Coach Tom Thibodeau Shares Philosophy

  • New York Knicks | – Ex-Knicks guard Derrick Rose retires after 15-year career marked by triumphs and setbacks – New York Daily News
    [New York Daily News] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 15:00:18 GMT

    New York Knicks | – Ex-Knicks guard Derrick Rose retires after 15-year career marked by triumphs and setbacks

  • 3 Knicks facing the most questions this season – sny.tv
    [sny.tv] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 13:52:24 GMT
    1. 3 Knicks facing the most questions this season
    2. 2024-25 Media Days Schedule: Times, locations and how to watch for all 30 teams
    3. 4 unanswered Knicks questions ahead of 2024 NBA training camp
    4. New York Knicks important preseason dates for 2024-25
    5. Knicks Media Day: When & Where to Watch Jalen Brunson & Co’s Press Conference Ahead of 2024-25 Season

  • What Julius Randle’s past as a small-ball center says about what he could do for the Knicks – New York Post
    [New York Post] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:30:00 GMT
    1. What Julius Randle’s past as a small-ball center says about what he could do for the Knicks
    2. Why Julius Randle will be Knicks’ X-factor for 2024-25 season
    3. Knicks Tom Thibodeau says I think so when asked if Julius Randle is healthy
    4. Former Celtics Center Makes Bold Knicks Prediction
    5. Tom Thibodeau Offers Positive Update on Knicks Star

  • New York City Deputy Mayor Only Wants to Talk About the Knicks Right Now – Sports Illustrated
    [Sports Illustrated] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 15:34:02 GMT

    New York City Deputy Mayor Only Wants to Talk About the Knicks Right Now

  • Grade the trade: Pistons clean up in proposed deal with Knicks – Piston Powered
    [Piston Powered] – Thu, 26 Sep 2024 11:58:42 GMT

    Grade the trade: Pistons clean up in proposed deal with Knicks

    • 108 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.09.27)”

    I’m glad that Ringer piece Raven posted yesterday called out Utah for having no clue in their team-building. If Ainge didn’t have his rep from Boston I think people would be making much more noise about his plan…or lack thereof. He’s basically Strat’s “win trades” guy without taking into consideration all the other crucial factors, such as timing….

    A thought on Rose. As a person I find him difficult at best. I hope he continues to lead what appears to be a decent life. As a person who survived sexual assault and molestation at the age of 9, I have never asked what the origin story of my predator was. I’m sure some trauma or other made its way through him to me. I hope Rose continues to understand what consent means.

    To take it a step further, 5 years ago Karsinovas, Ainge, and Ujiri were probably considered top 5 team-builders. Chicago, Utah, and Toronto are in the bottom tier of his index (though I disagree with his take on Toronto).

    I hope Rose continues to understand what consent means.

    To understand something and to respect something are sometimes two different things…

    In honor of BigBlueAl, whose occasional takes on the Yankees make it worth following the bickering on this site, here’s some lines about Judge vs. the rest of the team from the Athletic this morning:

    So as you scroll down, from category to category, the gap between those other Yankees and their favorite superhero gets more and more mind-blowing. Doesn’t it? Judge crushes this group in batting average by 90 points … in on-base percentage by 159 points … in slugging by — what??? — 333 points … and in OPS by nearly (whoa!) 500 points.

    But what would it be without him (and Soto, of course)? All those other guys have basically the same OPS (.670) as the Pirates (.671), Marlins (.672) and Angels (.673) — who are all among the five worst offenses in the sport.

    I think we’re back. He could have, and probably should have, talked about the Yankees and Mets!

    Thanks for posting that Alan. Anybody have thoughts on his claim that we need a little more perimeter defense? Lol

    Hey, the guy was struggling. Big time. Probably meant rim protection!! But clearly a Knick fan…so whatever happens, can’t hold that against him.

    If we’re going to have a mayoral administration on the take from Turkey, they should at least be able to get Sengun to the Knicks.

    He’s basically Strat’s “win trades” guy without taking into consideration all the other crucial factors, such as timing….

    I don’t understand what Ainge is doing either.

    My guess is that he can’t decide whether to blow it up and start from scratch or just build from where he is now. Markkanen probably surprised him on the upside and now he can’t figure out whether to try to add another star player to Markkanen and go from there or to trade him for a boatload of assets.

    Raven I read that article this morning from Jayson Stark! He always has great facts in his columns.

    It really is crazy to think how great a hitter Judge has become, I want the Yankees to win it all this year mainly because Judge deserves a championship.

    Aaron Judge is the best baseball player I have ever seen and completely bucks the (generally true) conventional wisdom that one player doesn’t make or break a baseball team. We would be .500 fodder without him. Every single one of his PAs is a must-watch.

    My favorite thing about Judge is that he’s batting in the .320s, basically giving the middle finger to the rest of the baseball world that thinks it’s now okay to hit .217 with 25 homers because launch angle.

    Bill Nye – The Science Guy!!!

    stopped by cnn looking like ol’ honest abe lincoln without a beard…maybe the same style clothing too…

    yeah, bill nye just sobered me up…way to go bill…

    and, of course: there are 5 Days, 17 Hours, 40 Minutes, and 16 Seconds to 1 October 2024 (training camp opens)…

    they’re going to The Citadel in South Carolina…

    My favorite thing about Judge is that he’s batting in the .320s, basically giving the middle finger to the rest of the baseball world that thinks it’s now okay to hit .217 with 25 homers because launch angle.

    To put his greatness in perspective, he’s having the greatest season since a pretty famous guy named Mickey Mantle in 1956…. batting average (. 353), home runs (52), and runs batted in (RBI) (130).

    And he does it with a elegance that is uncommon… so easy to root for.

    I feel conflicted but at same time thinking holy shit Knicks gonna have an incredible offense.

    KAT can replace Donte’s shooting, though, and now we have two completely different (yet equally elite on different ends) center options… and can also go big or small at PF.

    And I get why Minny does this, but holy heck…

    What?!!! Where is that?

    Bobby Marks broke it first I think and then Shams and Begley and Fred Katz (now beat writer-emeritus) have confirmed

    Does KAT play PF when Mitch comes back????

    Is this done???

    How do Thibs & KAT feel about teaming up again?

    DRed hit on the starting lineup I’d use. Definitely a tantalizing lineup to say the least. Have no idea about the bench after this trade, gonna have to wait for the final details obviously.

    I’m not making any snap judgments but I don’t feel excited. I feel pretty bummed, actually. Really wanted to see this team play.

    my gut tells me that KAT moves in a gangly fashion…julius provided force on the boards and in the paint…

    felt like donte was found money…

    I guess Deuce becomes the backup SG, Hart backs up OG at SF, Precious can back up both bigs with Sims in the mix… Payne or Kolek will have to step up as the backup PG. Hart is probably going to play a lot of minutes until Mitch gets back, which isn’t really a problem for him.

    Very cold-blooded of Leon, though.

    This is some fucked up timeline. Fine. This is a contender but not necessarily the one we were eyeing before the first beer.

    Randle for KAT as the main pieces always made sense. I’ve brought that up many times. Losing DDV hurts. I didn’t see that coming. But KAT at C, OG at PF, Hart and Bridges with Brunson is a better lineup on both sides. KAT is way more efficient than Randle and will provide better spacing. With that lineup the perimeter defense will be very good. We don’t really need KAT to be a great rim protector. He just has to be competent. I think he can do that much. This also takes all the worry about Mitch’s health out of the equation. I can see some people questioning this, but imo this is a sensible deal.

    For quick reference:

    Randle

    DARKO: 2.11
    O-DARKO: 2.41
    D-DARKO: -0.30

    EPM: 1.8
    OEPM: 1.9
    DEPM: -0.2

    Donte

    DARKO: 1.45
    O-DARKO: 0.95
    D-DARKO: O.51

    EPM: 2.0
    OEPM: -0.6
    DEPM: 1.5

    KAT

    DARKO: 3.51
    O-DARKO: 1.76
    D-DARKO: 1.75

    EPM: 2.6
    OEPM: 2.5
    DEPM: -0.1

    Am warming to it. KAT really is a much better fit than Julius. Going from Julius spacing the floor to one of the best shooting bigs in NBA history is going to make guarding the Knicks impossible. And Donte prob was not going to play more than 20-24 min per game.

    KAT is not a good defender but he can’t be worse than Julius…right?

    This is a ceiling play. We were always going to be held back by Julius’s shooting or lack thereof. Not sure how the $ is going to work but I imagine Brock has that figured out.

    I think KAT slides over to PF when Mitch returns, unless we’re just cruising.

    I mean… it makes sense if you’re filling out a lineup card. KAT is the better player in the box score. He can’t possibly suck as bad in the playoffs. Our perimeter defense is ridiculous with Hart/Mikal/OG.

    I still feel uneasy.

    EB, are those career numbers or last year’s?

    EPM should be last year.

    DARKO puts most weight on the most recent season but previous years affect it too. It’s trying to approximate talent rather than results.

    Damn this is crazy.

    Shocked Leon broke up the nova core but I guess if he was gonna trade one of them doing it now before the season started makes sense and I think it also nips any idea that that core is untouchable in the bud. But fuck DDV was such a good player. Hurts to lose him.

    I feel bad for Randle but two big injuries two years in a row and the spacing not as good with him plus KAT is a little younger. It feels like the right move.

    I think maybe ya start precious and keep hart on the bench bc we’ll need him to lead the unit. Deuce remains back up SG with Payne? Guessing we only play 9 deep to start the season again lol.

    Holt fucking shit. Randle was gonna miss some or all of training camp so again while I have mixed feelings I appreciate Leon doing this now. This new team can get acclimated (mostly) healthy in camp.

    Hope Thibs and KAT can get along but I also think Thibs has mellowed since those days and KAT has matured so I’m thinking that will be fine.

    KAT is the best player in the trade and gives us the ability to play legit 5 out on offense, but Donte and Julius are both very good so it makes us more fragile.

    Plus last time the twolves traded one of their franchise players to another team it resulted in them winning a title. Actually now that I think of it the last two times. Wiggins and Garnett.

    KAT was more efficient and scored more as a center (although some of that was due to making room for Ant and Gobert), so I don’t think it’s off the table that he’ll stay at center—with or without Mitch.

    Are the Wolves moving Ant to the 3?

    I was thinking the 1. Edwards-Donte-McDaniels-Randle-Rudy/Naz. That’s an exciting lineup.

    It’s funny, I did predict we’d trade Donte to MIN for a C. Thought it would be Naz.

    They really wanted to dump KAT so they could keep Reid. That makes me a little worried.

    I’d rather have kat than Randle…ddv production can be replaced (I think)…I like it…let leon cook

    I was totally ready to roll with Julius, but I’m incredibly worried about his shoulder. A big part of his game is using that shoulder to muscle his way into the paint, so the idea of “perimeter” Randle was not sitting well with me. But yeah, losing DDV is rough.

    I think there could be one more deal before the deadline. I would not be shocked if Mitch eventually gets traded, but keeping him as the backup and playing big lineups here or there might be interesting.

    PG: Brunson 36 / Kolek 12
    SG: Hart 24 / Deuce 24
    SF: Mikal 36 / Hart 12
    PF: OG 36 / Achiuwa 12
    C: KAT 36 / Achiuwa 12

    You rotate so Mikal and/or KAT plays with the 2nd unit.

    When Mitch comes back, play KAT 12mpg at the 4 next to Mitch. Mitch only plays 24mpg. In the playoffs maybe you play Mitch more and sit Deuce.

    KAT is the best player in the trade and gives us the ability to play legit 5 out on offense,

    I don’t know about that. Donte was an essential piece for the 5-out.

    Even when he was hitting his threes this spring nobody was guarding Hart on the perimeter. Teams will still give him that shot and there will be too many times he doesn’t take it.

    And I just can’t believe Thibs wants KAT as his 5 defensively.

    I think we got KAT to be the 4, and that this is a bold bet on Mitch.

    I don’t think it’s a bad trade but it pisses me off. Randle deserved to be here for this run. This pisses me off.

    I don’t think the Wolves wanted to move KAT. It was just a bit awkward with Gobert and they needed to save some money. So KAT was always the logical piece to move. They could never recover what they gave up for Gobert.

    It’s a three-teamer: We’re also sending DaQuan Jeffries and “draft compensation” to Charlotte for nothing or cash.

    Both fan bases seem to be upset – as far as I can tell from twitter. I suppose that means it’s an even trade.

    Towns’ camp was reportedly “stunned” by the trade to the Knicks, and the Knicks also discussed Randle trade scenarios with the Pistons, Atlanta Hawks, and Miami Heat, according to Shams.

    I think we got KAT to be the 4, and that this is a bold bet on Mitch.

    No one in their right mind would make a big bet on Mitch.

    IMO KAT is the 5 and OG the 4, but KAT and Gobert worked well enough to try Mitch and KAT together when the matchup allows or requires it.

    With OG, HART and MIKAL you really don’t need a high level rim protector.

    Now instead of occasionally playing small with Randle at C, we will play 5 out until January and occasionally go big to see how that works.

    Randle + Donte make $40M

    KAT makes $49M

    Aren’t we a first apron team that can’t take back more $ in a trade?

    Are we gonna soon learn that Precious and Payne were thrown in to make this work?

    I don’t have a particularly confident prediction for the outcome of this trade but I do love that Leon traded a role player coming off a career year

    Jeez, maybe we ARE still going to trade Mitch for extra parts, since we are still 9 mil short on this trade… this is all making me very nervous…

    Didn’t care for either of the players sent out, love the player coming in.

    Totally psyched.

    Donte DiVincenzo was a sticking point in trade talks between New York and Minnesota. Minnesota became very intrigued once DiVincenzo became a realistic option, per SNY sources. DiVincenzo, who set NYK record for made 3-pt FGs last year, may have come off NYK bench this season

    — Ian Begley (@IanBegley) September 28, 2024

    I love DDV but acquiring Bridges made him expendable. Still tough to process this trade but shit I keep going back to the Knicks putting out a lineup of Brunson Bridges Hart OG and Towns thinking fuck that’s pretty damn good.

    IMO KAT is the 5 and OG the 4

    Is KAT really a 5, though? I mean, he’s tall. But he’s been the 4 on Minnesota for years now. 100% of his postseason minutes came at PF (with either Reid or Rudy at C).

    Teams with him at the 5 historically have been swiss cheese.

    Hyperbole, but good analysis of him defending Jokic:
    Karl Anthony Towns Real DPOTY

    Funny their head to head stats are better than what one might imagine… https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=townska01&player_id1=jokicni01&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=jokicni01

    But people here should be ecstatic… Two weeks ago Lowe and Marks couldn’t find a “neutral” fake trade for Randle and now Leon brings back the best shooting 7 footer ever who averages > 11 boards a game for his career with a .623 career ts%.

    They can either play Towns with plus, plus defensive wings OG and Bridges as the C or play him at the 4 with Mitch at center and always have 4, 3 ball shooters on the floor. WTF!

    DDV is a fine player and a great 6th man, but he can’t hold up this trade.

    I don’t know about that. Donte was an essential piece for the 5-out.

    He was going to play maybe 20 minutes a night if they nailed Deuce to the bench. If you want to argue he should have been playing instead of Bridges I’ll give it a sympathetic listen but it wasn’t going to happen

    Is KAT really a 5, though?

    According to BB Ref, he’s played 86% of his career minutes at 5 and virtually 100% of them prior to the last 2 seasons when the Frenchman showed up (and he has zero positional flexibility).

    Plus… Mitch when healthy will be a viable option as a defensive 5 with KAT to the 4 for the bulk of the game and we can have a viable alternative to avoid the hack- a Mitch black hole conundrum.

    If you want to argue he should have been playing instead of Bridges I’ll give it a sympathetic listen but it wasn’t going to happen

    Huh??? No one wants to argue that.

    I’m saying if you want to play 5-out there’s a huge shooting drop off from Donte to Hart.

    Is KAT really a 5, though? I mean, he’s tall. But he’s been the 4 on Minnesota for years now. 100% of his postseason minutes came at PF (with either Reid or Rudy at C).

    Teams with him at the 5 historically have been swiss cheese.

    IMO you either need a great rim protecting C to anchor the defense or a great perimeter defense.

    The Knicks are going play OG, Bridges and Hart. That’s a damn good perimeter defense. Would I prefer that Towns was also a great rim protector? Of course, but then he might be the best player in the NBA. I don’t think he’s nearly as bad defensively as his reputation. He’s just not going to anchor the defense inside. But he’ll be competent enough.

    This is the deal (minus DDV) that has long made sense. I’ve talked about this deal a LOT of times. The only reason I haven’t been talking about lately is that I kept reading that the Knicks loved Randle. So it seemed like they weren’t going to move him.

    If Mitch ever makes it back healthy then Brunson-Bridges-OG-Towns-Mitch is a rather nasty lineup. That lineup will wreck some fools in the playoffs. And as Neptune points out, now there’s a viable option to take Mitch off the floor if you don’t want to deal with his FT shooting.

    KAT is also an accomplished screen setter, and will be our go-to guy in that department.

    Deuce takes over as the backup 2, and should handle that job just fine. Payne/Kolek will duel it out for backup PG minutes and I’m not too worried about those guys either.

    We’re good, guys. This is awesome.

    I’m slightly uneasy about the trade, mostly because I’m irrationally fond of Divo. I do hope Leon finds a way to bring Divo back (“In Rose we trust”)

    But I also need to note two things, one cultural and one personal:

    – Culturally, KAT is a Dominican guy from Edison New Jersey. I know we can’t be overly wedded to location, otherwise we would have brought “home” Donovan Mitchell (when it was way too expensive to do so). We all know how the return of Starbury went for us. But I think there is something to be said for seeing how KAT responds to a return to the NY area. And there are a LOT of Dominicans in greater NYC, which will feed both ways.

    – Personally, I’ve had the shoulder dislocation. Yikes. Mine dislocated when I was in college and then subluxed five more times and thus I needed to have surgery on it. It’s never been the same and I don’t play anything at a near-professional level.

    I am far far far from a serious athlete. But I know enough about sports medicine to know that anyone who has had that surgery will likely never be able to pound down low, on the blocks, the way that they did before the injury.

    (Please don’t ever do this, but) if you were to pick me up and throw me out a window, I would think twice before I grabbed the window frame with my left arm. Even at the cost of my life. I’m just reflexively more cautious with that shoulder, and I can’t imagine that the #PoundingandRebounding part of Julius’ game will be unaffected by the injury.

    That being said, Julius deserves a lot of respect for all his did for the Knicks and for NY. I’m not one of those to reflexively criticize him as soft. I appreciate all of the effort Julius put into bringing back my beloved Knicks and making NYC a destination again. I’m still rooting for the guy.

    I also CANNOT watch that play with Miami where Julius goes down. If you’ve ever dislocated your shoulder, you instantly know what that means. I almost passed out when it happened, it’s that visceral.

    (And I still despise the Heat, in all ways, since the 1990s and Rileyball.)

    there’s a huge shooting drop off from Donte to Hart.

    Donte is being replced by Bridges and Deuce, who can both probably shoot.

    I hate KAT’s salary. And I think Julius deserved a shot with this team.

    BUT… KAT’s a more potent and efficient offensive player than Randle. And maybe having plus defenders at the 2, 3, and 4 when he’s the 5 can allow the team to play 5-out or have shooters at every position.

    Again, my biggest issue is the incoming salary. But they added the kind of offensive firepower that can allow them to truly beat anybody.

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