Knicks Morning News (2024.04.15)

This season has been a real success, full stop, against all odds, against major injuries to key players, against major changes in our team personnel. Playoffs are dessert.

I agree 1000% with Raven (and others) on this.

After Julius and OG injuries a few here argued that we were a play-in team, until we clinched a top-6 spot*.
We weren’t.

* After it they started arguing about the teams we had to avoid. 😀

This team is basically comprised of Brunson and a bunch of limited role players with zero depth.

Many fail to realize this.

“Un-limited role players” wouldn’t be “role players” no? 😉

Anyway a lot of people here fully understand it.

We’re a flawed team with limited “star power”, our margin of error is really small (in every game we need at least 3 “role players” stepping up to have a chance to win).
And that’s exactly why, after losing one of our 2 All-Stars for the season, everything is gravy.

And of course I’ll be sad when we’d be eliminated, be it against the 76ers, the Heat, the Bucks, the Celtics or the Nuggets.
It doesn’t matter the opponent, I’m a fan, I’m always sad when my team lose.

But at the end of the day, after all our misfortunes, instead of crouching into fetal position and packing for the offseason we have a free playoffs ride, the most exciting games of the season.

Will it last 4 games? 7 games? More?
It doesn’t matter, it’s a gift, rejoice.

(I hope this opinion doesn’t jinx us)

I hope it too 😉
In sports I’m very sensible to the power of jinxes and reverse jinxes 😀

Philadelphia is by far the preferred opponent to Miami and it’s not even close. Pray for Philly. We’ll beat them in 4 games and Embiid will probably miss half of them. Miami will be a 7 game war that depletes and injures us.

We had a “second star” in the playoffs last year and probably would’ve made the conference finals if we only had one

Dallas had Dirk and a bunch of roleplayers. Detroit had nothing but roleplayers. Doesn’t happen often, but teams win with “roleplayers”.

Having no Mitch or a Walter Brennan( Grandpappy Amos McKoy) gimpy Mitch certainly lessens our chances against Philly.

Josh Hart is much more valuable against Philly than against Miami. But a healthy Embiid would be the best player on the floor, whereas I’d rather have Brunson than either of the Miami guys. So… LarryDavidShrugsDotGif

I really don’t understand the POV that we should have either tanked the game or yanked the starters once we knew what the 2 seed would be facing. The team ethos is so linked to competing to the bitter end, something like that would invariably stung in the locker room. Having the courage to fail and failing is much less of a set back to contention than showing a lack of confidence in the 82nd game where you have already won 49 games and are on a 4 game winning streak. And I am not saying this because I think if we lose in the first round it’s ok–I will be disappointed in the performance unless we reach the ECF. The regular season resiliency and our playoff roster/health tells me we clearly have that potential.

Having no Mitch or a Walter Brennan( Grandpappy Amos McKoy) gimpy Mitch certainly lessens our chances against Philly.

Joel Embiid is as gimpy and out of shape as Mitch.

This season has been a real success, full stop, against all odds, against major injuries to key players, against major changes in our team personnel. Playoffs are dessert.

For Jalen Brunson, that is true. The season has been an incredible success for him no matter what happens in the postseason. Because he carried us through the injuries and major personnel changes. But Thibs and Leon don’t get to rest on their laurels because they rode an MVP like Secretariat.

Thibs has gotten his pants pulled down two years in a row in the playoffs. He needs to show more tactical acumen than a rock this year. And Leon will rightfully be judged by how much help Jalen Brunson has this spring.

But Thibs and Leon don’t get to rest on their laurels because they rode an MVP like Secretariat.

Are we going to do this again?

Brunson was 14th in minutes played this year at 35.4 per game. 39-year-old LeBron James played 35.3. Kevin Durant played 37.2. There are 6 PGs that played more minutes than Brunson.

Dallas had Dirk and a bunch of roleplayers. Detroit had nothing but roleplayers.

This is why I hate the term “role player.” As if the only categories in the NBA are superstars, all stars and role players.

Jason Kidd is a hall of game point guard. Was he at his peak powers when Dallas won in 2010? No. But to call him a “role player” is an insult to his career. Same with Shawn Marion or even Tyson Chandler. Jason Terry won 6th man of the year multiple times. To call these dudes role players is an insult.

Same with Detroit. Sheed, Billups and Hamilton all made all star teams.

We have a superstar. And yes, we have role players. But there is a huge range of talent in players between star and role player.

Hubert,

No doubt Leon has more work to do to strengthen the bench and see what else he can come up with.

IMO the Grimes trade looks a bit worse given that Randle couldn’t make it back. The best argument for it was that it was a win now move to strengthen the bench scoring for a serious run this year. Without Randle that’s going to be tougher.

Burks has been a bust and even if Bojan helps in the playoffs, if we don’t make a serious run we basically rented him for a few months at a cost of Grimes and two 2nd rounders. We could have kept Fournier’s contract for trade purposes.

Embiid averaged 30/10/5 since he came back Hubert, what are you talking about

This is why I hate the term “role player.” As if the only categories in the NBA are superstars, all stars and role players.

That’s the point

Are we going to do this again?

Apparently so. Apparently Thibs should be on the side lines watching Brunson absolutely dominate in game after game and think to himself “I should play him less minutes.”

I didn’t say anything about Brunson’s minutes.

“Riding Secretariat” means you’re being carried by greatness.

We could have kept Fournier’s contract for trade purposes.

For the upteenth time, we decided to do the “right” thing both by him and future recruiting.

The playoffs aren’t just not dessert, they’re pretty much the entire meal. The regular season is — at most — an amuse-bouche.

Playing yesterday like it was Game 7 and winding up with a significantly tougher draw was unbelievably stupid. Peak Thibs. These are grown men, not little leaguers. There’s no “carry over,” no “lessons to be learned,” no “development of character,” no “culture to be maintained,” etc — any more than there are those things if you rest your regulars in the last NFL preseason game.

We can get all beer muscles and whatnot, but the Sixers will be significantly favored going into the series if that’s the opponent. Last I checked on Fanduel they were +1800 and the Knicks were +3300.(*) Barring some unforseen injury or something, the Knicks will go into the series as something like a +150 underdog.

But muh culture.

(*) Underpay!!

ENOUGH with this minutes crap!
My buddy, 71 years old, gave up playing hoops two years ago after a knee injury. He had a decent jumper and could dribble but he wasn’t ever good enough to make his High School varsity team. But my pal went to the gym 4 times a week and played.

He brought up this minutes question and I asked him, “When you played basketball, how long did you play?”

His response was “we usually played from 7-9”.

“And how many of those 120 minutes did you sit?”

He said, “Crap! I played for 100 minutes!”

If a 60+ can run up and down a court like that, these pros can do it. So let’s never bring this up again. Never.

Hubert, what are you talking about

Have you seen him run? He’s not in game shape, he’s constantly limping, and he’s had to leave two games with injuries.

But Thibs and Leon don’t get to rest on their laurels because they rode an MVP like Secretariat.

It is only an opinion at this point (although 18-3 or whatever is pretty impressive start) but the OG trade is going to go down in history as in the neighborhood with the Dave Debusschere trade a half century ago and we didn’t give up a HOFer in the process.

Thibs has gotten his pants pulled down two years in a row in the playoffs. He needs to show more tactical acumen than a rock this year. And Leon will rightfully be judged by how much help Jalen Brunson has this spring.

That is quite a re writing of history. IMO 🙂 And, as you understand, Brunson’s primary “help” is sitting on the sideline in a sling. The ideal that Rose bought Brunson off the discount rack at EJ Korvette’s doesn’t get the props it deserves. It is Jokic level at 41 or Giannis level in the teens transaction that everyone had access to an many laughed at as a gross overpay. Credit needs to be given where it is due regardless of our inherent biases and narratives (which we all have, including myself)!

Playing yesterday like it was Game 7 and winding up with a significantly tougher draw was unbelievably stupid.

Philly or Miami are not significantly tougher than the Pacers. They all have basically the same record. How are they significantly tougher?

Pacers are 2-1 vs. Philly this year. They’re 2-2 against the Heat.

By the way the Pacers are 3-1 vs. us this season. You could easily argue that they are the tougher match up. The only reason anyone says they aren’t is because of some narrative about them being young or it’s their first playoffs or whatever but those narratives are often bullshit.

Hubert is being slick, making it seem like Philly should be an easy series knowing it’ll be a tough series if not a loss so he’ll then have plenty of ammo to criticize Thibs. If Knicks win the series it’ll be no big deal cause according to him it should be an easy series. It’s a perfect scenario for Hubert!

and winding up with a significantly tougher draw

I thought you were on record that last year we lost to the 8th seed, not a tough Miami team. But this year the 7th seed is significantly tougher than the 6th seed because of…?

although 18-3 or whatever is pretty impressive start

20-3, which is a 71 win pace

My buddy, 71 years old, gave up playing hoops two years ago after a knee injury. He had a decent jumper and could dribble but he wasn’t ever good enough to make his High School varsity team

He tried to get on his High School varsity team in his 70?! That’s crazy!

Hubert is being slick, making it seem like Philly should be an easy series knowing it’ll be a tough series if not a loss so he’ll then have plenty of ammo to criticize Thibs.

That’s more of an E thing. Idk, I kinda agree with Hubert that Philly isn’t as scary as people believe.

Plenty of credit has been give to Leon by me for acquiring Jalen Brunson, Bob. If that’s all Leon ever does here, his front office will go down as the best Knicks front office in my life.

There’s still a lot of work to get from here to the top, and the playoffs are where we judge that work.

He probably isn’t literally 100%, but he played 35 and 32 minutes his last two games against DET and BKN and completely lit them up.

Hubert is being slick, making it seem like Philly should be an easy series knowing it’ll be a tough series if not a loss so he’ll then have plenty of ammo to criticize Thibs.

I think he’s just being (way) overly optimistic, but this idea that I or he or anyone else says things to line things up so as best to ultimately “criticize Thibs” is quite paranoid — particularly when both of us just take on Thibs directly on something of a consistent basis.

I do agree with Hubert that it’s possible Embiid will break down, there’s always that chance. But right now, he’s essentially fully ready to go. And at essentially fully ready to go, the Sixers are a distinct favorite.

Yeah listen I much prefer Philly to Miami and I’d be pissed and frustrated if the Knicks lose to them. But I’m not going to consider it a catastrophe or feel like it points to a huge fundamental flaw in the roster or coaching staff.

Now if Randle were healthy and they lose in the 1st rd then I’d probably have a different tune.

Losing in the first round will be devastating in the context of 50 games and the 2nd seed, and it would suck if such a glorious season ended with a thud. That said, I think the work product of Thibs and Leon this year, while not perfect, has been a rousing success no matter how things turn out. And no matter how things turn out (short of a championship, of course) there is still work to do. Does anyone here really think that this team, even with a healthy Julius, is a finished product?

But whatever, when the same folks who mercilessly bashed Leon and the hybrid method from the start continually move the goalposts , it rings pretty hollow, especially since they now say that we’d be true contenders via that impossible hybrid path if we had only drafted [insert cherry-picked names here]. That process predictably starts with preposterous opponent-bashing, setting up a “they better win, or else Thibs and Leon failed” scenario. So tediously predictable.

20-3, which is a 71 win pace

I stand corrected! 🙂

Hubs, I do not share your Philly optimism at all.

Don’t get me wrong. I think we can beat them. But I don’t think it will be easy. I don’t think any of the teams we could face in the East will be easy. To me there is not much difference between us, Orlando, Indiana, the Bucks The Heat or Philly. And the records reflect that. Each team has it’s own strengths and weaknesses and we might match up better against one vs. the other but we’re all pretty much in the same not Boston boat.

And no matter how things turn out (short of a championship, of course) there is still work to do. Does anyone here really think that this team, even with a healthy Julius, is a finished product?

This is the correct take. Of course we want to go as far as possible but it is absurd to call the season a failure if we lose in the first round because we literally are missing a 3 time all-star, 2 time all NBA player. There seems to be this really dumb narrative that loves to dismiss the positive impact Randle has on our team.

To me if we get swept or lose in 5 then it would be a failure. But anything beyond that is fine.

You can’t get too high or too low on this shit. Dallas lost in the first round to an 8th seed after winning 60 games. They didn’t blow it up after that because they knew despite the set back that they had a core that could eventually get it done.

The work is not done and Leon knows this.

I think we can go far this post season but it won’t be easy. It never is.

Hubert is being slick, making it seem like Philly should be an easy series knowing it’ll be a tough series if not a loss so he’ll then have plenty of ammo to criticize Thibs. If Knicks win the series it’ll be no big deal cause according to him it should be an easy series. It’s a perfect scenario for Hubert!

That’s pretty cynical. I’ll tell you right now: if we lose to Philadelphia it will be because I was wrong about them being a bunch of bums.

The so-called “hybrid method” worked because “Jalen Brunson turned out to be way better than Leon and the rest of the league thought.”

Even above the method picked — hybrid, tanking, whatever — a key factor is simple luck. Always has been, always will be, said in advance many times. The Knicks, thank the basketball gods, got their luck with Jalen Brunson.

Now if Randle were healthy and they lose in the 1st rd then I’d probably have a different tune.

And this is also correct. But without Randle, it’s dumb to get mad if we lose at any point in the playoffs unless we just embarrass ourselves in teh firstr round and lose in 4 or 5.

There was zero luck involved with Jalen Brunson. Zero.

There was zero luck involved with Jalen Brunson. Zero.

So let it be pronounced!!!

No one even offered the guy a max contract. Because no one considered him a max player. But Z-Man’s unwavering certainty and insistence will be an equal countervailing force in the cosmos!!!

But I’m not going to consider it a catastrophe or feel like it points to a huge fundamental flaw in the roster or coaching staff.

No one said it would be a catastrophe, Al.

All I said was that Thibs has not earned “no matter what happens in the playoffs, my season was a success” status.

If there is a valid counterargument, please present. All you guys been doing is busting up straw men.

I will say one reason I prefer Philly is because I can see the Knicks imposing their will on them and having a relatively easy 5 game series similar to Cleveland last year. A series against Miami is guaranteed to go 6 or 7 games regardless of who wins.

There’s still a lot of work to get from here to the top, and the playoffs are where we judge that work.

With all due respect, No kidding!

Even when the team was completely healthy in January with Mitch, OG and Randle healthy and DDV shooting the eyes out of the basket, no one thought they were a lock, or even the favorite. Were they an intriguing team with a legit shot? Probably, but nowhere near a finished Product in anyone’s eyes.

Did you and E have a Vulcan mind meld last night? Or … as Westley said in The Princess Bride… https://clip.cafe/the-princess-bride-1987/we-are-men-of-action/

Jalen Brunson turned out to be way better than Leon and the rest of the league thought.”… a key factor is simple luck…The Knicks, thank the basketball gods, got their luck with Jalen Brunson.

Leon shed assets to clear cap space so he could pay circa 20% more than Dallas or 28 other teams for Jalen, not including the second rounder by hiring his dad to thwart competition. He has followed his career literally since birth. Sometimes you make your own luck.

Thibs definitely earned that status for this season considering he got the Knicks to win 50 games with Randle out almost half the season and OG missing 2 months as well. I get the regular season doesn’t matter its just about the playoffs for a team like Boston but for this current Knicks team that would be a bit unfair.

With all due respect, No kidding!

Then why are you all up on arms?

We’re talking about judging Leon’s season. Not his tenure.

People suggested no matter what happens in the playoffs, it’s been a success. I disagree. I think the jury is still out on the work he did this year, and the playoffs will probably determine his grade.

All I said was that Thibs has not earned “no matter what happens in the playoffs, my season was a success” status.

If there is a valid counterargument, please present. All you guys been doing is busting up straw men.

Is “No shit Sherlock!” a “valid counter argument? Talk about raising strawmen…

Leon shed assets to clear cap space so he could pay circa 20% more than Dallas or 28 other teams for Jalen, not including the second rounder by hiring his dad to thwart competition. He has followed his career literally since birth. Sometimes you make your own luck.

Yeah just because other teams didn’t see it, doesn’t mean Leon was “lucky.” He had his eyes set on this guy for years.

And to be frank…other teams were stupid. Brunson showed his last season in Dallas and during those playoffs that he was deserving a big contract.

Even before we acquired Brunson, I posted that he would be our best PG since Clyde and was a Kyle Lowry-level player (Lowry topped out at a 6.1 BPM, Brunson is at 5.8), and even better if his 3pt shot was for real. He was dynamite in his non-Luka minutes. I knew that because I watched hours of game film, especially from the playoffs where he utterly destroyed the Jazz and Spida in particular. He’s not doing anything now that he didn’t do then. One only needed to put in the work to see it. If you were too lazy to do your research, then don’t cop out behind “no one could have seen this coming.”

And beyond that, why is he here and not somewhere else? Was it luck that Leon hired his father as an assistant coach? Was it luck that Leon hired a guy that Brunson knew and respected as head coach? Was it luck that Brunson was represented by Leon’s son? Was it luck that Leon brought two of Brunson’s buddies from Villanova to be his sidekicks? (three if you count Archie.)

Jalen Brunson is the LEAST lucky thing that Leon did.

For personal reasons, I want the Heat. First, we need to get back at them for what they did to us last season. Second, I live down here in SoFlo and I’m thinking I’m going to want to go to a game. IDK how hard it will be to snare tix but I’ll give up a few weeks of golf for one Knick win over the Heat.

Oh, and I think OG can stop Jimmy so there’s that. I’m not so sure about a stopping Embid, even hobbled.

Even before we acquired Brunson, I posted that he would be our best PG since Clyde and was a Kyle Lowry-level player (Lowry topped out at a 6.1 BPM, Brunson is at 5.8), and even better if his 3pt shot was for real.

Oh, well everyone knows how great you are already.

But no one in the actual association even thought the guy was a max player.

Leon Rose was the best Knicks signing.

GoNy I went to Game 3 last year with my brother and we wanted good seats so we paid a few hundred bucks for our tickets. Regular season those seats go for about 200 but they were double for the playoffs.

Since E thinks it was “unbelievably stupid” to win yesterday, we should all take note of the fact that he is thus predicting a first-round loss. It is completely incoherent to say the win was “unbelievably stupid” if it’s not accompanied by that prediction. Good to know, we’ll see how that ages. He might be right, the playoffs are tough!

I do not agree that we should’ve tanked though, even putting aside romantic notions (that I share) of leaning into our identity. A first-round loss is perhaps more likely as a result of the win, but it’s also more likely that we make the ECFs. Is it so obvious that’s a bad tradeoff? Not to me, don’t we want to maximize our chances of deep run?

The idea that we should have tanked mid-game in the 82nd game of the season to garner a more favorable playoff opponent is hands down the stupidest thing I have read here since “I like the Andrea Bargnani trade.”

Thibs definitely earned that status for this season considering he got the Knicks to win 50 games with Randle out almost half the season and OG missing 2 months as well.

There it is. You think “Thibs got the Knicks to win 50 games” and I think Jalen Brunson did.

That’s why I said in the beginning: I think Brunson has earned “no matter what happens from here status” but no one else.

It is completely incoherent to say the win was “unbelievably stupid” if it’s not accompanied by that prediction.

Of course, it’s nothing of the sort.

They are more likely to lose to a healthy Philly than to Indiana or Orlando. That’s barely debatable.

The luckiest thing that ever happened to Leon is being rebuffed by Danny Ainge. That trade would have been a Melo-level abject disaster for a hopeful rebuild. He deserves unrelenting derision for even considering such a trade. He deserves zero credit for it not happening.

THAT’S luck!

The idea that we should have tanked mid-game in the 82nd game of the season to garner a more favorable playoff opponent is hands down the stupidest thing I have read here since “I like the Andrea Bargnani trade.”

Except all the other teams in that position … tanked.

Wait so Brunson gets all the credit for the regular season and Thibs gets all the blame for losing in the playoffs?

That’s why I said in the beginning: I think Brunson has earned “no matter what happens from here status” but no one else.

Idk, Leon signing Randle, Donte, Brunson, and iHart to contracts dwarfed by their production while also acquiring OG, who just about saved our season in January, is difficult to beat.

For the upteenth time, we decided to do the “right” thing both by him and future recruiting.

No one is complaining about trying to do the right thing for Fournier. He was in a terrible position. That doesn’t mean the trade we made was a good one.

“A first-round loss is perhaps more likely as a result of the win, but it’s also more likely that we make the ECFs.”

TNFH, why is it more likely? We’d be in the same bracket, and would be playing either the Heat, Sixers, or Bucks (possibly with Giannis) in the second round.

Hubs, I do not share your Philly optimism at all.

Swifty, get with the program, pessimist!

We’re talking about judging Leon’s season. Not his tenure. People suggested no matter what happens in the playoffs, it’s been a success. I disagree. The jury is still out on the work he did this year, and the playoffs will probably determine his grade.

The playoffs won’t determine his grade since they will be playing with a Pinochle deck, not a full deck. There is no getting away from that.

However, the foundation is in place for a serious contender/championship team. Leon has acquired a top 5 player in the league for 24 million a year and whatever it took to clear plenty of space to acquire him. Clearly a stroke of genius. He was gifted an all star PF and resigned him to a very team friendly contract for a 2 time all star the past 3 seasons. He acquired OG for what I consider a minimal price. OG’s effect on winning isn’t quantified by stats other than the most important (W/L). The price was Barrett, who has yet to play at league average on both sides of the ball, and he made IQ tradable by signing DDV (a better player/yet similar) for half the expected price moving forward. He signed I Hart for a reasonable contract and has watched him blossom into one of the better centers in the league. We maybe have a 70/30 chance to resign him. We could use Clyde Drexler to play the 2 guard and a back up point and PF, but we have all our picks and up to 4 extras to do that.

I would consider that Yeoman’s work in a short time frame.

I mean dont get me wrong I think it’s a players league and the players deserve most of the credit for any team’s success but we’ve seen first hand what horrible coaching can do to a team so Thibs certainly deserves alot of credit for the regular season success even though yes obviously Brunson is the main reason this team won 50 games.

@BigBlue – You might need to add a 0 for tix at the Garden, right? I’m willing to sit in the rafters!

It’s more likely by guaranteeing home court in the 2nd rd. If the 6th seed was Orlando instead of Indiana I would’ve been more tempted to tanking for 3rd seed but cmon how could you watch the 4th quarter and OT yesterday and not be rooting for a win. That was fun, dramatic stuff!

Tanking to get a better 1st round opponent is for the unambitious who are satisfied with a first round win.

This is not the Knicks. You want to get home court advantage for as long as possible. It doesn’t really matter if you lose in the first or second round. Their goal should be the conference finals at least, so that they have a shot at a championship. They managed to avoid the best team in the league until the conference finals, it’s fine.

Let the Cavs tank their way into trying to beat Orlando to prevent Mitchell from leaving and Bickerstaff from being fired.

Listen GoNy I don’t have a bucket list but my goal is to one day watch a Knicks game at MSG! I’ve seen them down here plenty even though unfortunately I never went to a Knicks Heat playoff game back in the 90s. But one day before we die my brother and I have talked about having to go to a Knicks game at MSG.

The so-called “hybrid method” worked because “Jalen Brunson turned out to be way better than Leon and the rest of the league thought.”

1. I would argue that Brunson was underrated coming to NY because he was playing behind Doncic (though his stats without Doncic were widely discussed here) and his probable impact was wildly underrated because we were going from such a huge negative at the position to a positive.

2. In every single method imaginable luck is a factor. Guys that look very talented get drafted high and bust (we’ve done a good job of that). Others look just OK but become stars. Some guys develop later and unexpectedly. Injuries happen. Sometimes a guy that was in a bad role in once place blossoms elsewhere. All you can do is try to find the best players you can find, wherever you think there is good value, and fit them together well within a coherent plan. If you make logical moves with good value, things will work out OK. The rest is luck.

No one is complaining about trying to do the right thing for Fournier. He was in a terrible position. That doesn’t mean the trade we made was a good one.

This argument all hinges on your opinion of Grimes moving forward. Clearly he lost favor with Thibs and Rose after the handed him the starting 2 guard slot on a silver platter. We will see in the fullness of time who is correct. Bogey has thankfully given glimpses of himself recently and he may give us the useful 15 minutes in big spots in the playoffs that will make the minimal cost worthwhile. No one, and I mean no one expected Burks to have such a case of suck fever.

My biggest concern right now is actually that Philadelphia blows the play in game and becomes Boston’s first round sweep instead of ours. But Embiid’s going to have 5 days of rest heading into it, they’re playing at home, and I think Jimmy Butler needs to be edged all the way before he activates.

If Embiid is that banged up we can assume Miami will beat Philly easily and we’ll have to deal with waves of annonymous scrubs shooting 45% from 3 while Bam tries to hurt everyone.

Yeah remember last year Miami got blown out at home vs Atlanta in the first play in game and actually trailed the Bulls with a few mins left in the 2nd play in game.

The luckiest thing that ever happened to Leon is being rebuffed by Danny Ainge.

Z-man, I gotta love that you think what you hear about trades that did and didn’t happen are true. I know that I don’t know. What I do know is that the Mitchell trade did not go through and that the Knicks have a plethora of picks to trade this offseason. So not only did Rose not make a bad trade, and not only are the Knicks the hottest team in the NBA, and not only are the Knicks 50 game winners. The Knicks have one of the best stockpiles of draft assets. Leon Rose is the best Knick executive in my memory and I watched the last championship game.

i’ll be rooting for miami on wednesday unless embiid looks really bad, physically. miami is formidable and in some ways a tough matchup, especially as a strong defensive rebounding team. but we are a much different offense now, and probably more challenging for what miami likes to do. and it’s not just having divo or an improved jalen. playing ihart for 30ish minute really changes what we look like to versatile, paint swarming defenses with great coaching like the heat.

one silver lining of randle being out is that ihart did not ever seem capable of being ihart on offense when randle was on the floor. since we signed ihart he has put up 11.2 pts and 2.4 assists per 100 in 1716 minutes with randle (reg seasons and playoffs) and 15.5 pts and 5.4 assists in 2007 minutes without him. this seems especially important against miami, a defense that thrives on frustrating predictable, low movement, drive and kick offenses. of course spoelstra will make adjustments like the zone they hurt us with last year (donte will help a bit here, as will jalen’s newfound willingess to launch), but i think overall it will be tougher for them to make us look like shit on offense when we are utilizing ihart as the pivot and max’ing the offball movements we’ve unleashed in the last few months.

mitch has looked so rough since coming back, i worry about ihart getting in foul trouble against embiid if embiid isn’t sufficiently gimpy. we also really struggle to stay in front of quick guards like maxey; this is where donte is at his least effective and it isn’t really deuce’s sweet spot, either.

books think sixers are ~63% to win against miami wednesday, so only a slight advantage ex home court.

However, the foundation is in place for a serious contender/championship team.

Yeah, see I’m not on board with that yet. A lot of his foundational pieces are unproven. You know I love Donte, for instance, but I got to see him do it against playoff defenses. Stuff like that is all TBD.

Going forward, I’m curious if the Knicks are able to elevate their defense in the playoffs like they did last season (19th DRtg in the regular season, 1st in the playoffs). If they do anything remotely similar, they will be really dangerous, as I think their offense is much less predictable this year (and really, only 4 players who played real minutes in the playoffs last year will be with the team this year, and two of them – I-Hart and Mitch – have a big role reversal).

I don’t love the hybrid method because it’s difficult to pull off, but damned if Leon didn’t manage to do it. He has hit one mammoth home run in the FA market (Brunson) and at least two screaming line drive doubles (DDV and Hartenstein) and also managed to sign Randle to a team-friendly contract, acquire a key piece via trade (OG) and sign a useful young player to a great value contract (Deuce).

He hasn’t nailed every aspect of it because that’s probably impossible but you can’t ask for a much better execution of that strategy. For the most part he has identified good players and signed them to bargain contracts. Very difficult to do, but here we are. I tip my cap.

In every single method imaginable luck is a factor.

Exactly.

I really don’t look forward to seeing Embiid shoot 20 FTs a game and Nick Nurse overreacting as usual in his complaints to the refs because he did not get 22 FTAs.

I think there are excellent arguments on both sides of the tank vs. not tank debate. The fact that there are credible KB posters on both sides of the argument says as much.

I sort of liked that we didn’t tank but was agnostic about the outcome specifically because of how torn I was. So for me, it came down to a Demar DeRozan midrange shot that he normally makes in his sleep.

OTOH, what about Billy Donovan and the Bulls? What were they doing, playing their starters 40+ minutes and treating this game like Game 7 of the finals when there was zero riding on it? That curious decision is why we are even having this conversation.

At the end of the day, one thing you can say about this Knicks team is that the fans in attendance never got cheated by a less than 100% effort, not once. There’s something very pure and good about that.

Looks like Giannis is out for game 1, the Bucks are in real trouble.

The NBA will finally smile favorably upon us since we were the only team not to tank yesterday. Expect Brunson to get a very favorable whistle in round 1.

You know I love Donte, for instance, but I got to see him do it against playoff defenses. Stuff like that is all TBD.

You mean he’s a playoff risk?

Knicks down to 33-1. Sixers 19-1. Pacers 120-1.

Looks like Giannis is out for game 1, the Bucks are in real trouble.

And he’s likely not going to be at his best for the rest of the series. That team will implode pretty fast.

On a related note, they are a projected second apron team this summer.

What’s the value in beating some fugazy contender in the first round like Indiana or Orlando? Is the idea that we are supposed to gain some Jedi Knight Playoff Wisdom for the future in winning such a series?

I guess I just don’t understand why I’m supposed to give a shit about beating a team like that in the first round.

“Z-man, I gotta love that you think what you hear about trades that did and didn’t happen are true. I know that I don’t know. What I do know is that the Mitchell trade did not go through and that the Knicks have a plethora of picks to trade this offseason. So not only did Rose not make a bad trade, and not only are the Knicks the hottest team in the NBA, and not only are the Knicks 50 game winners. The Knicks have one of the best stockpiles of draft assets. Leon Rose is the best Knick executive in my memory and I watched the last championship game.”

The reporting by Woj was that we offered a huge haul, involving RJ, Mitch, Obi and three unprotected firsts. I was skeptical of this because it seemed so outlandish, but it was pointed out to me that Woj is a highly reliable source. I suppose you can credit Leon for not offering even more, but at the end of the day, it was not Leon’s doing that the trade didn’t go through. He was bailed out by the Cavs.

Now, if he did actually make that massive blunder of a trade, one could argue that he’s shown enough to assume that he would have gotten us to this point anyway, just with fewer picks left in the holster. But I think our theoretical ceiling would be lower than it is right now. We wouldn’t have Mitch and likely not OG, and we’d be hard pressed to land another major piece.

No credit whatsoever to Leon on that one.

the Pacers are about to crush the Bucks, they definitely have some Atlanta 2021 potential

The next GMing hurdle is figuring out how to keep iHart in the fold. On any other team, he’s probably a goner. Yet he seems to absolutely love it here. Leon will have to use all his powers, and all his skills, to pull that one off.

TNFH, why is it more likely? We’d be in the same bracket, and would be playing either the Heat, Sixers, or Bucks (possibly with Giannis) in the second round.

Every study I’ve seen on the matter indicates that home-court advantage in the playoffs is a pretty damn large benefit, even after controlling for team quality. Hastily surrendering that mid-game to maybe get an easier first-round opponent (I say maybe because it is of course totally possible Miami wins a single game against Philly, guys) does not strike me as wise even from a purely empirical perspective, putting aside any consideration of the idea that the Knicks not engaging in these kinds of shenanigans can’t be separated from their overall quality (an idea I think is at a minimum worthy of consideration).

If IHart, OG, Jalen, and DDV are healthy, and Hart always seems to be healthy, I feel pretty good about any matchup. Bogey performing as he has lately would be huge too.

Put me firmly in the camp of not caring whether we lose to the Sixers in the first round or second round.

Leon will have to use all his powers, and all his skills, to pull that one off.

I think he’ll put $72M on the table and hope no one else tops it

The Sixers, both before and after Embiid’s injury, have the third best net rating with him on the court. They would be a tough matchup, especially if Mitch can’t do Mitch things. But I’m fine with whatever we get – I like the mindset, and as smarter posters have observed, you don’t have that mindset get you through all the big injuries we endured and then drop it for one game. This team may not have another gear for the playoffs, but they also won’t be intimidated by the intensity. Other teams should fear us.

Grayson Allen is getting a 4yr-70m contract extension from Phoenix.

I just can’t believe this season. Imagine if the Timberwolves lost KAT for the last 2/3 of the season, Gobert for half of it and when he came back he was a shell of himself, and oh I don’t know maybe Kyle Anderson goes down for a few weeks. And they win 50 and are slotted #2.

The playoffs almost feel like found money to me. I mean, I’ll be devastated if/when they lose, first round, second round, ECF, finals, whatever. But no matter if/when it happens, this year’ll have been awesome.

I also agree that all the matchups outside of the Celts are comparatively tough, but each is tough in a different way, and I’m unable to predict who’s a better or worse matchup. So I say bring it on.

YMMV, but that’s where I find myself.

“What’s the value in beating some fugazy contender in the first round like Indiana or Orlando? Is the idea that we are supposed to gain some Jedi Knight Playoff Wisdom for the future in winning such a series?

I guess I just don’t understand why I’m supposed to give a shit about beating a team like that in the first round.”

Exactly. Why are the people who supposedly are championship or bust in this board screaming about facing Philadelphia instead of Indiana? Who cares? It doesn’t matter, the east goes through these guys, you have to play who’s in front of you eventually anyway.

If we can’t beat the Sixers now, we can’t win on the 2nd round anyway after we beat Indiana and they either roll over the Giannis-less Bucks, or Giannis comes back and we meet the full force Bucks with him. It doesn’t matter.

It’s helpful to win rounds because Giannis & Donovan Mitchell are more likely to list the Knicks as their escape option the deeper they get into the playoffs.

“That’s the team that eliminated the 2023-2024 Orlando Magic! Get me there, I need to play for those guys!”

Nosebleeds are about $300 for the first round and go up significantly the deeper they go. I had a gift card for Christmas so I snagged a pair for game 2 for $280. Can’t wait.

one silver lining of randle being out is that ihart did not ever seem capable of being ihart on offense when randle was on the floor. since we signed ihart he has put up 11.2 pts and 2.4 assists per 100 in 1716 minutes with randle (reg seasons and playoffs) and 15.5 pts and 5.4 assists in 2007 minutes without him. this seems especially important against miami, a defense that thrives on frustrating predictable, low movement, drive and kick offenses. of course spoelstra will make adjustments like the zone they hurt us with last year (donte will help a bit here, as will jalen’s newfound willingess to launch), but i think overall it will be tougher for them to make us look like shit on offense when we are utilizing ihart as the pivot and max’ing the offball movements we’ve unleashed in the last few months.

I don’t have anything to add other than saying it’s a shame excellent posts like this that talk about the basketball being played by the very good NBA team we root for get drowned out by the most tedious arguments imaginable, which is why I think it really is appropriate to establish some kind of rule when it comes to responding to certain posters.

I of course am a huge hypocrite who has violated my own rule countless times, so I will renew my efforts to be the change I wish to see.

Wait so Brunson gets all the credit for the regular season and Thibs gets all the blame for losing in the playoffs?

No!

Why so many straw men today?

If Brunson plays poorly in the playoffs and we lose, his season was still an incredible success.

If Thibs gets his pants pulled down in the playoffs again, then his season was not at incredible success.

If Randle was healthy Knicks would’ve clinched the 2nd seed a week ago and yesterday’s game wouldn’t have mattered regardless.

Where else but here does the coach get so much credit for an MVP season?

No one thinks Jason Kidd dragged Luka Doncic to the 5 seed.

Nosebleeds are about $300 for the first round and go up significantly the deeper they go. I had a gift card for Christmas so I snagged a pair for game 2 for $280. Can’t wait.

I’m a long time season ticket holder (pretty good seats) and they jack up the price for each round. On the MSG website it shows me what each round will go for, if we make the Finals guess how much per ticket? (Hint: it ain’t 3 figures)

Where else but here does the coach get so much credit for an MVP season?

If you’re going to blame the coach for guys missing open shots you can blame or credit the coach for anything. It’s a big part of what we do on this website.

108 comments before Noon. I’d say Knickerblogger is definitely already in playoff mode!

Where else but here does the coach get so much credit for an MVP season?

Who is saying Thibs deserves so much credit for an MVP season? Suspect no one. Thibs did a good job in keeping the team focussed. The pushback is on posts that posit the MVP season happened despite Thibs.

The Knicks have already done something really great. After years of praying for relevance they have accomplished that. I remember hanging in Central Park in the 90s with a high stakes game about to start downtown. Beautiful spring weather and a heart pumping matchup. Thanks Leon. 50 wins means a lot to me. Playoffs are a crapshoot. I’ll be devastated if they don’t get the championship. I hope they get one while I’m still on the planet. But no matter what it’s not doldrums. That’s really all you can reasonably ask for as a fan

Who is saying Thibs deserves so much credit for an MVP season? Suspect no one.

“Thibs definitely earned that status for this season considering he got the Knicks to win 50 games”

I really don’t look forward to seeing Embiid shoot 20 FTs a game and Nick Nurse overreacting as usual in his complaints to the refs because he did not get 22 FTAs.

This is the point. It would turn his 20+ ppg into 35-40+ ppg. If we control that, we can win the series. This is the kind of issues we should be discussing. The self-flagellation that takes place in here less than 24 hours after we secured our only second 50-win season in the last three decades is shocking. This Knicks team is backing down to NOBODY, and we should be proud of them and what they have already achieved despite the injuries. Let’s see what they can do in the playoffs. I will be fine even if they lose in the first round provided they lay it all out there. Relax and enjoy!

It’s funny how I have such different expectations and outlooks when it comes to the Yankees and Knicks. I’m also not someone who thinks it’s World Series or bust so I have more patience and reasonable expectations than most Yankee fans but yeah I’m alot more lenient towards the Knicks.

one silver lining of randle being out is that ihart did not ever seem capable of being ihart on offense when randle was on the floor. since we signed ihart he has put up 11.2 pts and 2.4 assists per 100 in 1716 minutes with randle (reg seasons and playoffs) and 15.5 pts and 5.4 assists in 2007 minutes without him.

Can’t say that surprises me too much. I’d only wonder if that’s Thibs deciding to run everything through Randle so that iHart rarely touches the ball making it a coaching thing rather than a Randle thing. It makes sense with Mitch, not so much with iHart.

Is it worth replacing Randle to keep iHart more involved (assuming iHart stays)? Not that we should dump him, but explore roughly equivalent options or upgrades.

Am i the only one who felt that Brunson had Serious help from his teammates during this season?
When Randle and OG were out and with Mitch still out almost Everyone stepped up Big.
Including Brunson

Yes that’s exactly what I said, all of Brunson’s success this season is entirely due to Thibs!

Also, love him or hate him, does this make Leon the most successful GM/POBO of the 2000s?

Low bar, so basically is this better than the Melo “dynasty”?

I’m gonna stand by my thought that something is wrong if Thibs isn’t high up on the COTY rankings. Not saying he should win- as there are at least 2 other coaches who have done just as outstanding of a job this season. But even though Milwaukee shit the bed down the stretch, Thibs still got us to 50 and the 2 seed whilst dealing with a catastrophic injury situation. Since the start of the year, 3/5 of our starting 5 were down most of the time- yet the team still got hot behind Brunson’s brilliance. I almost wanna compare this season to the Brady or Belichick argument, but Bill fell apart without Brady covering his bad personnel decisions. Still though- Thibs pushed the buttons and Brunson kept getting better. Thibs should be top 3 COTY, and Brunson should be 1st team All NBA and top 3 MVP. No contender for those awards have persevered through as shitty a hand this season. I predicted a 50 win ceiling in the beginning, but these results are beyond what I imagined once the injuries hit. This team deserves Adam Driver saying good soup LOL. Can’t wait for the weekend

Poindexter stop giving Thibs credit!

108 comments before Noon. I’d say Knickerblogger is definitely already in playoff mode!

I think you mean mid-covid politics mode

Who is saying Thibs deserves so much credit for an MVP season? Suspect no one.
“Thibs definitely earned that status for this season considering he got the Knicks to win 50 games”

BBL at 10:19:
I mean dont get me wrong I think it’s a players league and the players deserve most of the credit for any team’s success but we’ve seen first hand what horrible coaching can do to a team so Thibs certainly deserves alot of credit for the regular season success even though yes obviously Brunson is the main reason this team won 50 games.

Like I said, no one.

New York Basketball
@NBA_NewYork
·
9h

“We just play. We play. I can’t speak for Cleveland. Cleveland does what they think feels best for their organization. We do what we think’s best for our organization”

– Thibs on Knicks going all out for 2 seed (v Heat/76ers) while Cavs went out of their way to lose & seed lower

Cavs wanted to get a nice 1st rd series. Thibs said nah

No, the East doesn’t necessarily “go through Philly anyway” — just like it didn’t go through Milwaukee last year.

So you don’t want to play Philly in the first round (*) because if you don’t there’s a decent chance you won’t have to play them at all.

(*) Among other reasons.

—

Chris Fedor
@ChrisFedor
·
12h
If we’re being honest, #Cavs having to play Boston in Round 2 – if they get there – is not ideal. But a theoretical Round 1 matchup (if Chicago lead held over NY) with either Miami or Philly would’ve been even worse for them because it likely would’ve been 2 straight 1-and-dones

Cavs reporter

one silver lining of randle being out is that ihart did not ever seem capable of being ihart on offense when randle was on the floor. since we signed ihart he has put up 11.2 pts and 2.4 assists per 100 in 1716 minutes with randle

Obviously, a not-insignificant part of the 37-1 (*) quoted odds is Randle being out. Putting money where mouth is, that not-insignificant part was happily faded.

(*) Now 33-1.

If you need to tank your way to a favorable matchup and then hope all the “good” teams get knocked out by Fugazy contenders so you don’t have to play the tough teams, maybe you’re not much of a contender in the first place. It’s probably better to just not get cute, lock up home court, and try to beat whatever opponent gets put in front of you.

Of course we want to go as far as possible but it is absurd to call the season a failure if we lose in the first round because we literally are missing a 3 time all-star, 2 time all NBA player.

Straw men, straw men, straw men.

Look man, I promise you right now: if Joel Embiid puts it all together, Tyrese Maxey lights us up, and the Philly supporting cast plays great, I will not sit here and call the season a failure or blame it on Thibs.

But don’t forget we once lost to these guys without Embiid and Maxey because Thibs coached like the dead man from Weekend at Bernie’s. Some of y’all trying to say that he can get away with that because he’s been so good this year. That’s what I’m pushing back on.

Look man, I promise you right now: if Joel Embiid puts it all together, Tyrese Maxey lights us up, and the Philly supporting cast plays great, I will not sit here and call the season a failure or blame it on Thibs.

If they lose 4-1 in the first round to a team they shouldn’t even have been playing, I’m absolutely blaming Thibs.

Thibs insisted out loud that this was the best path for “our organization.” It isn’t, and if it proves not to be on the floor, he deserves tons of blame.

You don’t get to make stupid decisions intentionally, without accountability. Doesn’t work that way.

This is so stupid.

The difference btwn The Knicks (2) and Miami (8) is a total of 4 games.

There is no real difference, strength wise between the Cavs, Pacers, Magic, Heat or Philly. We’re talking a total of 2 games.

Magic and Pacers are young and “inexperienced.” That can be a disadvantage but not always. The Magic could be really hard because of their defense. The Pacers could be really hard because of their offense. Philly could be really hard because of Embiid or he could get hurt. The Heat have great coaching and Butler and Bam are always tough but they also are, in theory, the weaker team.

Anyone of them we could beat in 4 or 5 games or it could take 6 or 7 or they could beat us.

NOBODY HERE ACTUALLY FUCKING KNOWS.

But the 2nd seed gets home court in the first round AND the second round.

The fact that the Cavs intentionally tanked a game for a “more favourable” match up doesn’t make them smarter. They got spanked last year in the first round by us. To me, it shows them being afraid to actually play a team they THINK is going to be hard for them. But it could EASILY blow up in their face.

It’s like people have to find a reason to bitch and complain. We won 50 games and are the 2 seed. It doesn’t guarantee shit but it’s a nice thing.

I’m absolutely blaming Thibs

Oh you’ll absolutely blame him? What a fucking shocker.

You’ll blame him if we lost game 7 in the finals to the Nuggets because Jokic plays the best game of his career. You “blaming” thibs for whatever “failures” happen means nothing because you blame him for literally everything under the sun.

Poindexter stop giving Thibs credit!

LOL! I take it back!
THOMAS JOSEPH THIBODEAU JR, YA BUM!

There..that is my attempt to trick the basketball gods into letting us into the ECF lol

Seeds 2-8 (assuming MIA and PHI) are so close that any 1st round outcome will not be a big upset (other than 1v8). A big part them being so close are 4 things–Joel injury and comeback, Doc replacing Adrian, Giannis getting hurt, and the OG trade. Only one of them was not the result of chance or stupidity.

Grayson Allen is getting a 4yr-70m contract extension from Phoenix.

Jrue got extended, too.

So can we extend Hartenstein now?

If they lose 4-1 in the first round to a team they shouldn’t even have been playing, I’m absolutely blaming Thibs.

And so naturally, if they win in the first round and thus have an easier second round as a result of the 50th win, you will admit you were wrong about said win being a “stupid decision.”

Or is this “tails E wins, heads Thibs loses” and, as usual, you are not allowing for any possible series of events that would prove you wrong in hindsight?

Z-man

The reporting by Woj was that we offered a huge haul, involving RJ, Mitch, Obi and three unprotected firsts. I was skeptical of this because it seemed so outlandish, but it was pointed out to me that Woj is a highly reliable source.

Arguable until the end of time. While not Woj, a Boston insider might have insight. Sometimes GMs might ask “What’s it gonna take? 4 firsts and what? There’s a lot of ways to interpret but only if the deal was done could we complain or cheer.

No matter. It didn’t happen. Neither credit nor blame for a non-move. So far, as far as I can see, I love what Rose has done.

Speaking of Evan Fournier, it appears the Knicks were correct to not play him for the last year or so, because he fucking sucked for Detroit.

Seeds 2-8 (assuming MIA and PHI) are so close that any 1st round outcome will not be a big upset (other than 1v8). A big part them being so close are 4 things–Joel injury and comeback, Doc replacing Adrian, Giannis getting hurt, and the OG trade. Only one of them was not the result of chance or stupidity.

And you should add “Randle out for the year”.

Walker and others:

The idea that all our potential opponents were of similar strength because their records are similar is fatuous. Everyone here knows that Philly has been near Boston level when Embiid plays and lottery level when he doesn’t. Embiid is playing. They are by far the most dangerous opponent and we chose to put ourselves in a position to lose to them in the first round.

The 2 seed also holds virtually no benefit over the 3 seed here. The only different is that we’d get HCA in round 2 if we play the 3 seed. But if we were the 3 seed the Bucks would be the 2 seed, and with Doc coaching and and Giannis hurt they would have been extremely likely to lose to the 7th seed (likely Philly). This would have been a great chance for Embiid to get some wear & tear.

This idea that we shouldn’t try to maximize our chances for a deep run out of pride while every other team takes rational action in their strategic interest is bizarre. Were you all celebrating Ndour’s late April game winner that one year that cost us the #1 draft slot for our 19th win or whatever?

As it is we are a mortal lock to lose Game 1 at MSG, in keeping with our annual tradition. Then it’s 3-1 after 4 games and an exit in 5 or 6.

Then we lose iHart this offseason and only later realize this year was our peak/best window as the rest of the East continues to improve based on organic growth of their young talent. There really isn’t anything more Knicksy than locking up the 2 seed in the worst year of all time to have the 2 seed.

I can remember when I was the most negative person on the board and the Knicks were awful……

If the Vegas odds makers are right there’s still like a 40% chance we’re not playing Philly

Pags is the Michael Jordan of being a Knicks doomer.

This site today is like winning the lottery and then having someone scream in your ear over and over that you’re gonna have to pay taxes on your winnings.

Not to change the subject from this scintillating discussion over who’s to blame for things that haven’t happened, but here’s a nice point by Macri:

‘Over the final month of the NBA’s regular season, from March 14 to April 14, Jalen Brunson scored 596 points.

That total was 159 more than the next closest player – Devin Booker with 437.

The gap between Brunson and Booker was equal to the gap between Booker and bam Adebayo, who ranked 42nd with 277 total points in that same time span. Meanwhile, his 126 assists were second only to Dejounte Murray and Tyrese Haliburton.

By any metric, there has not been a better offensive player in the sport to close the season.’

Listen GoNy I don’t have a bucket list but my goal is to one day watch a Knicks game at MSG!

I feel you Al. I got to go to one Knick game at MSG back in 2010… David Lee n’ co hosted (and lost to) Chris Bosh’s Raptors. I’ve seen more Knick games out here in LA, mostly attributed to the lifestyle stability I’ve enjoyed out here vs being mostly broke and living home from mid-2019-2012.

A small dream would be to take my son to a Knick game in NY…

Pags is the Michael Jordan of being a Knicks doomer.

For the record I do think we can beat Miami and I’ll be rooting hard for them come Wednesday. Pessimism regarding our chances against Philly isn’t just typical Pagliacci doomery, it’s borne out by the betting markets. They have the best player in the East and they’re a significantly better team than us.

And so naturally, if they win in the first round and thus have an easier second round as a result of the 50th win, you will admit you were wrong about said win being a “stupid decision.”

Or is this “tails E wins, heads Thibs loses” and, as usual, you are not allowing for any possible series of events that would prove you wrong in hindsight?

A guy who drives 100 mph drunk down I-95 has made a stupid decision irrespective of whether or not he hits another car.

I’m all for rooting against the tougher opposition. Last year I was thrilled we got to play Miami instead of Milwaukee although obviously it didn’t work out great. Back in the day I always rooted for Indiana to lose or even prayed for a miracle hoping MJ would lose to Cleveland in 1993.

But rooting for us to intentionally lose so we could drop in the standings and potentially lose homecourt in future rds just to avoid a theoretical tougher opponent in the 1st rd who we have a better record than is bitch shit.

By any metric, there has not been a better offensive player in the sport to close the season.’

Damn it raven. Keep on theme! Let’s factor in defense and see where he stands. And all those points and assists should be adjusted to per 36. Alas, you may not be changing the subject.

Yeah cdiggy I’ve been fortunate in recent years to be able to afford really good seats to watch the Knicks down here and have gone up to NY during the summer and been to the new Yankee Stadium a couple of times. I remember going to the old Yankee Stadium as a little kid a bunch of times but my dad was not into basketball at all so we never went to a Knicks game. I do remember though going to MSG one time to see the Ringling Bros circus which I remember hating.

So it appears that Dejounte Murray led the association in assists in the last month of the regular season?

Interesting.

A guy who drives 100 mph drunk down I-95 has made a stupid decision whether or not he hits another car.

So the Knicks trying to win the game is equivalent to a guy driving 100 mph drunk. Got it. Just a question out of idle curiosity–have you won any court cases?

Again, the fact that this issue is so extremely polarizing among the posters here suggests that there is merit to both sides. I wish that folks would be more respectful in at least considering the alternative viewpoints.

For me, the absolute worst outcome for this season would be to lose to the Cavs, Pacers, Magic, Bulls, Hawks, Bucks without Giannis, or Sixers without Embiid in the first round, in no particular order. Those teams are all pretty even, and a step below us. Only the Sixers without Embiid is still in play. For the most part, bullet dodged.

Next on the list would be losing to the Heat, Sixers with Embiid, Bucks with Giannis, or Celts in the first round. Once we clinched a playoff berth in game 81, the Celts were moot. The other three are formidable first round matchups, so losing would not be quite as painful.

Then it would be losing in the second round to the Celts. That would hurt the most because I want so badly for them to lose, and if we do lose to them, I’d rather it be in the ECFs.

Then it would be losing to any of the remaining teams in the second round. If that happens, I would look back on this season as one in which we reached the expectations I had going into the season.

So by winning the last game, we raised the floor on the season for me. I also like that we took the bolder route, but i understand why teams like the Cavs and Bucks felt differently, just like I understood why Cuban tanked last year. If DeRozan’s shot went in and we lost yesterday, I’d hardly be lamenting the loss.

In any case, I understand folks feeling differently. My opinion is that there’s really no right answer here, just a preferred path. I wish folks would get over themselves and see that.

This argument all hinges on your opinion of Grimes moving forward. Clearly he lost favor with Thibs and Rose after the handed him the starting 2 guard slot on a silver platter.

My opinion of Grimes is only part of the story. I think just giving up two 2nd round picks for a rental of Bojan may not turn out so well. The trade was a win now gamble that blew up once Randle couldn’t
make it back (and I mentioned that as a risk at the time). The only way it works out well now is if Bojan plays so well in the playoffs he has legitimate trade value for next season beyond an expiring deal. If we can get a real asset for him, that would be great. Now if Grimes develops into a solid 3&D for Detroit, then that’s an even bigger issue.

https://twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1779910657883930651?s=19

I agree with Tim Bontemps.

So can we extend Hartenstein now?

Anyone know the answer to this?

I wonder if there is a particular reason Jrue and Allen are extension eligible.

I would be strongly in favor of offering iHart the max now if we can.

“Every study I’ve seen on the matter indicates that home-court advantage in the playoffs is a pretty damn large benefit, even after controlling for team quality.”

I get this, but as the 3 seed, the only disadvantage we would have is if we faced the 2-seeded Bucks in the second round. In that case, one would have to assume that we were the underdog, since it very questionable that the Bucks will advance over the Heat or Sixers if they don’t have a reasonably healthy Giannis. I certainly don’t think that theoretical disadvantage overtakes the theoretical disadvantage of playing the Heat or Sixers with Embiid in the first round over the Pacers, with home court advantage in all scenarios.

I might be a bit extra dubious about your point because in our last 2 trips to the playoffs, the team with home court advantage has lost all 3 rounds. But in any case, we’re probably talking about a coin flip.

The Knicks are 19-2 when Jalen Brunson and OG Anunoby both play.

I’m not afraid of the 76ers choking asses as long as those guys can both go.

Why is this such a big deal?

We already had a couple holes on this team that we know need to be addressed in the off season. Once Randle couldn’t make it back, it virtually ended our chances for a serious run at the title without an act of God.

Does it really matter all that much who eliminates us and when?

Just enjoy that we got some development, added a key player, and won 50 games despite a lot of important injuries. That means we are positioned well for next year. Whatever we get out of the playoffs this year will be fun for us and experience for the players.

An argument can be made for tanking yesterday’s game or playing to win, but imo it’s insignificant to our chances for ultimately competing for the title starting next year with hopefully a healthier and more complete team.

An argument can be made for tanking yesterday’s game or playing to win, but imo it’s insignificant to our chances for ultimately competing for the title starting next year.

They have a tentpole superstar now. There is no “next year.” (Or “every year is next year,” if you prefer.)

Like I mentioned earlier if Randle were healthy Knicks would’ve clinched the 2 seed a week ago so it was always their destiny to finish 2nd.

“My opinion of Grimes is only part of the story. I think just giving up two 2nd round picks for a rental of Bojan may not turn out so well.”

My understanding is that it was the essentially worthless picks we acquired for Obi.

I would be strongly in favor of offering iHart the max now if we can.

He wouldn’t accept it unless he hates money, we are priced out of his market already. This is another one of those things where everyone is going to be all “Oh Pagliacci, such a negative nancy!” all the way until it actually happens…

“They have a tentpole superstar now. There is no “next year.””

What a dumb, self-serving statement.

“He wouldn’t accept it unless he hates money, we are priced out of his market already. This is another one of those things where everyone is going to be all “Oh Pagliacci, such a negative nancy!” all the way until it actually happens…”

This is funny since you routinely make obnoxious negative nelly the sky is falling statements in virtually every thread and almost always turn out to be wrong. I suppose if you throw enough bullshit at the wall, something will eventually stick and you’ll feel vindicated. But your woeful record of being on the losing side of a prediction makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

An argument can be made for tanking yesterday’s game or playing to win, but imo it’s insignificant to our chances for ultimately competing for the title starting next year with hopefully a healthier and more complete team.

Reminder that it’s already been established we won’t be starting next year with a healthier and more complete team. Randle is expected to be out until 2025 and we can probably bet on OG to lose an appendage in an unfortunate cheese grating accident or something in the interim. Plus, no iHart…

Our window is very likely now.

It is a 100% certainty that the Knicks are going to go all out to win a championship this year. Sadly, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of them failing. The good news is that there will definitely be a next year, and a year after that, etc., no matter how things turn out this year

A guy who drives 100 mph drunk down I-95 has made a stupid decision irrespective of whether or not he hits another car.

This, folks, is why we need to abide by The Rule. A person who says “winning 50 games and getting the 2nd seed” is akin to “driving 100 mph drunk down I-95” is not looking to have intellectually stimulating conversations about the New York Knicks.

My opinion of Grimes is only part of the story. I think just giving up two 2nd round picks for a rental of Bojan may not turn out so well. The trade was a win now gamble that blew up once Randle couldn’t
make it back (and I mentioned that as a risk at the time).

Don’t understand this POV at all. Having Bogey makes us much more able to weather Randle’s injury this year, and no amount of pretending it isn’t the case will make it so Bogey isn’t signed for next year as well. We’ll have him for one playoff run without Randle and one playoff run hopefully with Randle.

Or we’ll trade him, which will render the whole debate moot.

I certainly don’t think that theoretical disadvantage overtakes the theoretical disadvantage of playing the Heat or Sixers with Embiid in the first round over the Pacers, with home court advantage in all scenarios.

I’d rather have a surefire advantage against the Bucks we otherwise wouldn’t have than try to game our first-round opponent for a questionable advantage, yes.

Philly has definitely looked great with Embiid back and I won’t pretend the prospect of facing him doesn’t scare me, but Indiana has looked very good of late too, and again, Miami can easily win one game over Philly and render this whole conversation even more of a waste of time.

It’s the tradeoff you make if you are confident that your team is capable of beating anyone.

we cannot extend ihart.

My understanding is that it was the essentially worthless picks we acquired for Obi.

it’s our own 28 and 29 seconds

It is a 100% certainty that the Knicks are going to go all out to win a championship this year. Sadly, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of them failing. The good news is that there will definitely be a next year, and a year after that, etc., no matter how things turn out this year

This is saying absolutely nothing. Yes, tomorrow will be Tuesday. However, it’s far from clear that we will have a stronger team tomorrow, especially relative to the competition which consists of plenty of teams already near our level and full of high-upside young players like IND, ORL, CLE, etc

“Randle is expected to be out until 2025”

Verifiably wrong.

“we can probably bet on OG to lose an appendage in an unfortunate cheese grating accident or something in the interim.”

Whatever.

“Plus, no iHart…”

Whatever.

“Our window is very likely now.”

Of course it is.

A person who says “winning 50 games and getting the 2nd seed” is akin to “driving 100 mph drunk down I-95” is not looking to have intellectually stimulating conversations about the New York Knicks.

False again. The drunk driver example counters your fatuous statement that stupid decisions can be rescued from their stupidity by the ultimate outcome.

ha, good to see everyone filled with excitement and energy this Monday 😊

“Our window is very likely now.”

Of course it is.

This is in fact part of their window. How exactly isn’t it? “They’ll be better next year,” doesn’t change that. (Assuming that’s even true.)

108 comments before Noon. I’d say Knickerblogger is definitely already in playoff mode!

I very much look forward to winning a championship one day and reading all about how we did it the wrong way 😉

ha noble, you seem to keep failing the marshmallow test each and every day with E…

you just can not resist, can you?

it’s okay…it is funny though…

watch your sugar and salt, that stuff is pretty irresistible too…

The thing is, E, you saying that securing home court until the ECFs is a stupid decision does not make it so anymore than you saying it was a stupid decision to not play Cam Reddish more made it so. This is why it’s not worth paying you any mind unless you’re willing to attach a prediction to the declaration.

“However, it’s far from clear that we will have a stronger team tomorrow”

It was far from clear when Leon took over a roster expected to win the fewest games in the NBA that we’d be fretting that this was out last, best chance to win a championship.

There is nothing short of a catastrophic injury to Brunson that suggests that this team is done improving. OTOH, there is ample evidence that Leon will further improve the team by doing exactly what he has been doing, given that we have an overstock of first rounders and are below the dead end apron.

You seemed to have reformed yourself recently, but now you’re back to full-time trolling. Please get a grip.

okay then, let’s think on something a little more concrete – Tuesday and Wednesday games…

Lakers >>>> Pelicans
Kings >>>> Warriors

Sixers >>>> Heat
Bulls >>>> Hawks

let’s see if any of those guesses turn out to be correct…

Philly has definitely looked great with Embiid back and I won’t pretend the prospect of facing him doesn’t scare me, but Indiana has looked very good of late too, and again, Miami can easily win one game over Philly and render this whole conversation even more of a waste of time.

Current Fanduel odds of winning championship:

Philly — +1600
Miami — +4200
Indiana — +11000

It. Is. Not. Even. Close.

“it’s our own 28 and 29 seconds”

Thanks for clarifying pt, now I feel even worse about it!

The Knicks probably have a chance to make a recent Heat style title run, where they pull and upset or two and have some luck and then get dusted by a better team in the finals. To actually win the finals they’re likely to have to beat at least two significantly better teams and that is not easy to do.

Current Fanduel odds of winning championship:

Philly — +1600
Miami — +4200
Indiana — +11000

It. Is. Not. Even. Close.

I mean this doesn’t matter if they’re wrong. I’ve already bet on the Pacers beating the Bucks (the Bucks are favored).

The fact that the Pacers odds are that low even when they get to face a Giannis-less Bucks team for most/all of that series makes the point even stronger. If Giannis was healthy, they’d probably be something like 130 or 140 to 1.

It. Is. Not. Even. Close.

As you know but ignore for your narrative it factors in playing the Celtics. Up your game.

“This is in fact part of their window. How exactly isn’t it? “They’ll be better next year,” doesn’t change that. (Assuming that’s even true.)”

Oh, I agree that we are “in the window.” But we are prohibitive underdogs. If you expect a championship on the basis of having a “tentpole” guy, let me clue you in: there are 20 other teams that have a tentpole guy, and several have more than one. We’ll be facing one of those teams next week, and would have faced one next week even if we lost yesterday.

So really, what is your point about declaring that this is “part of the window?”

A minor thing I have changed my mind about over the course of the season is the Obi trade. I don’t think the Pacers would’ve been able to get two unprotected seconds for him at the deadline–that was more or less the going rate for playoff caliber rotation players and it’s still very much TBD if Obi fits that description.

Boy the perch are biting today, aren’t they.

E’s going to have a full creel before the day’s over, for sure.

My opinion of Grimes is only part of the story. I think just giving up two 2nd round picks for a rental of Bojan may not turn out so well. The trade was a win now gamble that blew up once Randle couldn’t
make it back (and I mentioned that as a risk at the time). The only way it works out well now is if Bojan plays so well in the playoffs he has legitimate trade value for next season beyond an expiring deal. If we can get a real asset for him, that would be great. Now if Grimes develops into a solid 3&D for Detroit, then that’s an even bigger issue.

Okay, but what’s the upside of that trade?

If we have a healthy Randle and productive Bojan we’re looking at a contender or we’re damn close to being one. Would you really want to pass on the chance to contend for the price of two 2nds?

The missed opportunity here is more important than the downside.

I had to Google creel….

Citing gambling odds is…odd.

They’re gambling odds and are often wrong.

They’re gambling odds and are often wrong.

They’re a perfectly fine measurement of widespread consensus opinion at any point in time, of people with a vested interest in being correct.

And again, as with the drunk driver and “Falsifiable Prediction” (TM) stuff, they aren’t “wrong” if an underdog happens to win.

Randle is expected to be out until 2025

Sources please.

well then raven – where in the world are you this week?

do you enjoy traveling?

where is the most beautiful place you’ve seen?

So really, what is your point about declaring that this is “part of the window?”

Mostly that Leon (and Thibs) are to be judged as the GM and coach of a team actually in their window. There’s no more “wait until next year.”

Citing gambling odds is…odd.

They’re gambling odds and are often wrong.

If they are so often wrong everyone here should be multimillionaires by knowing so much better. Yet, we’re all posting from our regular-ass jobs, probably.

It is more or less objective fact that we have secured the strongest possible playoff opponents other than the Celtics, and that we’d have much better chances of beating anyone else.

It’s also fact that if we don’t play the Bucks in round 2, there is zero advantage to having the #2 seed over #3 in terms of home court. Zero.

It’s also fact that Giannis is hurt and IND has wrecked the Bucks on numerous occasions this year. If we make it past Philly/Miami, we are most likely playing them, and would have had HCA anyway.

there are 20 other teams that have a tentpole guy,

I missed this in my earlier comment — there aren’t close to 20 teams with a tentpole superstar. I’m not going to do the count now, but there probably aren’t 10. Maybe there are, but that’s my intuitive over-under.

Creel is very niche…

I agree that talking about how otherworldly Brunson was over the last month of the season is a great topic of conversation. It’s interesting how it’s solidified the change in his reputation. Brunson was fighting to get into the all star game at the beginning of the season. He is now regarded as a 2nd team all nba player at worst and likely has booked 5 years of all star appearances. No player has helped his rep more this year.

I just love what we have in Brunson. It’s incredible he is a Knick and playing like this.

Whenever I look at blogs for other teams, there always seem to be at least a few complaints about the coach’s decisions: he didn’t play the right guys, he didn’t call timeouts when he should have, the players aren’t playing hard and so on. Relatively speaking, Thibs is getting few complaints. Since coaches almost get those complaints, I’d say in our judgement he did a good job this year.

I am not afraid of the Sixers. I think we have a solid chance against them this round or next. But beating them will be hard and we will not have any room for error if Embiid is healthy. We will then face a Bucks team, if Giannis is healthy, that will also be very tough and we will once again have no margin for error.

Winning yesterday made our path much harder and our margin for error much smaller. Instead of one very difficult series between us and the conference finals, we now face two.

It is not impossible but I do not care who we lose to or who we beat. I just want to fight for a championship and having to potentially face the Sixers, Bucks, and Celtics before even reaching the finals makes that job harder than it needs to be.

If Giannis is hurt and the Bucks fall then it doesn’t matter because we will face the Sixers and the Pacers, which is who we would have likely faced as the 3rd seed, but if Giannis gets well and they are healthy going into round 2 we have made our lives much harder than necessary.

Plus, forget winning or losing, as soon as we found out there was no strategic advantage to winning yesterday we should have pulled Brunson, OG, and IHart. Two of them are banged up and the third is our superstar, if one of them had gotten hurt in the last five minutes of the game or overtime right before the playoffs in a now strategically meaningless game it would have been unforgivable.

I said “often wrong.”

Often does not mean usually. It does not mean always. It just means “often.”

I said “often wrong.”

The oddsmakers aren’t aiming to be “right,” making it literally impossible for them to be “wrong.”(*)

The odds are a best guess take on ex ante risk and reward, nothing more. (Just as, for example, taking a swing at playing and developing Cam Reddish way back when would have been.)

(*) This is the fatal flaw in all the “Falsifiable Prediction” noise. In point of fact, the Knicks didn’t project and weren’t expected to win a playoff round last year. That they did in fact win one was irrelevant to that statement. (Most likely, they won’t project to win one this year either because of Thibs’s Folly. But we’ll see.)

Hey Geo, back from Paris, which is just as charming as the movies and songs make it look and sound. The architecture and a museum pass made it visual gluttony as well as culinary. And the damn chunnel train goes over 200 mph, which is pretty trippy.

Can’t pick a favorite spot. Mountains to me are the most visually arresting, whether it’s Moab or the Karakorams. Although I’ll take a week on the beach in Maui over any of it.

I get that. Which is why I think citing them as proof that X opponent is definitely easier or harder than Y opponent is flawed. It’s not proof of anything but nothing has happened yet.

Shit! As always, I was hoping I’m wrong about our shitty prospects as the #2 seed but seeing as our local prophet Ben R seems to agree with me chapter-and-verse, I’m now convinced I was dead right.

In order to determine true odds you need a “Will not win championship” bet. Vegas can think that Philly has a much worse chance of winning but knows that enough bettors will take the action at a bad price point to maximize expected value. Since there’s no opposite side of the bet, smart betters have nothing to hammer to drive the odds down.

Of course that doesn’t mean the odds are far off. Even if they were, I suspect that Philly still has a much better shot at going the distance than Indy does. So it doesn’t really matter for this discussion.

Celtics: Tatum (Brown)
Bucks: Giannis (Lillard)
Sixers: Embiid (Maxey)
Knicks: Brunson
Cavs: Mitchell
Pacers: Hali (Siakam)
Heat: Butler
Hawks: Trae (see: 2020-21)
Raptors: Barnes (RJ…just kidding!)
Thunder: SGA (Chet)
Nuggets: Jokic (Murray)
TWolves: Edwards (KAT)
Clippers: Kawhi (PG, Harden)
Mavs: Doncic (Kyrie)
Suns: Durant (Booker)
Pels: Zion (Ingram)
Lakers: LeBron (AD)
Kings: Sabonis (Fox)
Dubs: Steph
Grizz: Ja

Every one of these teams is in their “window”. Then there are teams that will have one of these guys by next year: SAS, HOU, ORL…

Your suggestion that “Hey, we have Jalen Brunson, it’s championship or bust right now!” is just as silly as it would be for most of these teams.

Worth noting that we’ve only played one game against Embiid this season. It’s the game he got hurt but kept playing to extend some streak or another, so it’s not clear he was at full strength. He did suck though.

On another note, I wonder whether the Heat feel that their best chance of beating the Celtics is by blindsiding them in Round 1 before the Celts get into a rhythm, like they did with the Bucks last year, and might play soft vs the Sixers. I doubt it, but it wouldn’t shock me. Imagine the panic in Boston if they lose game 1 to the Heat…

And the damn chunnel train goes over 200 mph, which is pretty trippy.

that sounds way weird…have you ever done one of those bullet trains in japan…

it’s been a while since I’ve been on one, I love trains though…as a kid grew up next to the long island railroad tracks…

are you a talker while traveling, engage with others easily?

With Randle out, who steps up in the scoring? Because last year the issue wasn’t defense in the playoffs – It was a lack of scoring. If we play Philly I actually believe Hart becomes more useful as he will be more aggressive and look for his shot as opposed to the Heat who negate his offensive rebounding/transition buckets.

Bogi is honestly our best bet for consistent “create-their-own-shot” offense as the rest either rely too much on Brunson to set them up or they’re too inconsistent. We’ll see if McBride’s improvement carries over to the playoffs.

I would like discussing this rather than…whatever hell is going on today lol

You guys complain so much about trolls derailing conversation, that now we have a 200+ thread with people responding to arguments of basically 2 people. I mean.

I’ll just wait for the games to start.

I have not always been a Thibs-backer but you just cannot argue against his body of work since becoming our coach. From the surprising “we here” season now to consecutive playoff runs with home court advantage, this team has beaten expectations.

For all the talk about how Thibs can’t adjust – he has adjusted A LOT this season. For all the talk about “riding Secretariat” — just look at all the different ways the Knicks run actions to get Brunson the ball in a matchup he wants, how everyone else moves into the right spot to receive a pass. This offense is completely unrecognizable compared to the last 3 Thibs years. It literally feels like watching the Warriors of years past, much more so than watching a completely heliocentric offense like the Mavs and Luka.

But most of all – with a couple exceptions, look at how much players have improved under Thibs. When people talk about players taking the “leap” — look how many players have taken the “leap” this year:

Brunson – career best year, literally one of the best years in Knicks history. Has leveled up in terms of off-the-dribble shooting and especially with passing. He’s insane.

Donte – his 3 point volume has increased by FIFTY PERCENT (~10 3PA/100 -> 15 3PA/100) while shooting career high percentages. And showed that he could be a viable 1st/2nd option when all the injuries hit.

Hartenstein – playing the best defense of his career by a country mile, playing the like Draymond-lite on the offensive end

Josh Hart – like 100 triple-doubles this year (would still be nice if he could shoot an open 3!)

McBride – legit shooter, playing with so much confidence of both sides of the floor.

Randle – I mean just compare the way he plays now to when he was leading the crew under Fizdale.

The point is — when one player makes a leap, it might just be all the individual work the player has put in. When EVERYONE makes the leap, you have to acknowledge the environment the coach has built and all the behind-the-scenes work the coaching staff puts in with the players.

We got all these players via trade and FA signings — and I’m not sure anyone thought we had gotten them in a “steal” — but now we must have 5 of the 10 best non-max / non rookie-deal contracts in the league — because the players have gotten so much better under Thibs and his staff.

Bogi is honestly our best bet for consistent “create-their-own-shot” offense

SoNice, I cannot imagine a deep run without a somewhat effective Bogie. And if he is really effective, watch out.

deciding against going in for some blood work (diabetes) today…

last time left with a decent nick on my vein…

not too big a deal though…still dropping weight, staying away from too much bad stuff…

shit, ain’t had no chocolate in about a week…

trying to cut out most the edibles for a while…trying not to be such a badfish…

almost at the year mark (April 27) since I last worked…

getting ready to start phase 2 of life beyond work…focus on fitness and money for a while…

Frank, actually totally agree with you, and you can also mention Mitch being utterly dominant defensively at the start of this year. Just want to point out that RJ is perhaps the exception that proves the rule…?

look at how much players have improved under Thibs.

imagine if OG can sign here and also dramatically improve his game…

Claw 2.0 coming…

I think this year’s version of the Knicks matches up pretty well with the Heat, and if we get the matchup against them, we’ll beat them.

This year’s I-Hart is a comparable player to Bam, if not a flat out better player. If you look at Hartenstein’s last 20 or so games he is just wrecking the league. He ended up finishing 27th in the league in BPM and 14th in EPM. He was not playing at this level when we faced the Heat last year, he has blossomed into a truly outstanding player since then.

And of course we did not have Anunoby last year, and he now gets tasked with guarding Jimmy Butler. There may not be another player in the NBA that I’d rather have guarding Jimmy Butler.

“You guys complain so much about trolls derailing conversation, that now we have a 200+ thread with people responding to arguments of basically 2 people. I mean.”

To be fair, there are two separate arguments:
1) Did the Knicks do the right thing by playing to win vs. Bulls?
2) What would a first round loss to the Heat or Sixers say about Thibs and Leon?

I think the first argument is worthy of discussion. The second? Not so much.

yeah Mitch’s improvement on defense definitely is another feather in Thibs’s cap! And I didn’t even talk about Quickley overachieving, and Grimes as well (seemed pretty terrible in DET but maybe due to injuries. Obi has not really thrived / improved in Indy either).

RJ – well yeah. Square peg, round hole. Would’ve been pretty interesting to see him on this team without Julius. But you have to give to get, and +/- God OG Anunoby was definitely worth it

I want to say I do not believe in tanking and would never want to try and lose a game. I am not upset we tried to win. I am upset we grinded so hard once winning the game no longer mattered.

Once the other games were decided or inevitable and we had no benefit to winning there was no reason to keep playing our starters and risk injury. Brunson, DDV, OG, and Hart all played over 40 minutes, and IHart played all the way to the top of his minutes restriction. That is an unnecessary risk. No one got hurt but someone could have. It’s like grinding the last ten minutes of a preseason game. Probably fine but you are taking on risk for zero benefit.

This is why people criticize Thibs. It’s not that he necessarily plays players too many minutes it’s that he is careless with their minutes. Playing OG 40+ minutes three games in a row with a sore elbow, no problem, grinding IHart, Hart, and DDV into to dust to try and pull out a couple shorthanded wins before the all-star break, why not, playing 4 of our starters over 40 minutes in the last game of the season when winning not only doesn’t matter but is probably strategically harmful, of course. This is why he gets a bad rap and it is deserved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLNtubvXoAE3gj9?format=jpg&name=900×900 the NBA pushing Wemby seems to be working

For all the talk about how Thibs can’t adjust – he has adjusted A LOT this season.

+1 to most of Frank’s post.

Thibs only bothered me when I felt he wasn’t giving young players enough run and in that I thought he could not design an offense that included a pass (or design a competent inbound play, for that matter). This season, I see him transformed. Injuries may have forced some decisions, but he gave a ton of minutes to Deuce and Precious, and he has at least allowed the Knicks to pass the ball. The result is joyous to behold.

The single biggest worry I had/have about the playoffs was/is that we are not strong enough at beating the double team on Brunson. Recent games have been a happy delight in watching us do this almost well (?).

Of all the things to complain about, Thibs isn’t one of them. He is an outstanding coach and I’d take him over almost anyone.

Instead of one very difficult series between us and the conference finals, we now face two.

This is true for everyone, though.

The Thunder earned the 1 seed and they’re looking at either LeBron or Curry in round 1, then either Luka or Kawhi in round 2.

With the suspect health of Giannis and Embiid, there’s a case to be made that we have the easiest path to the conference finals in the entire NBA.

This is true for everyone, though.

Hubs, this is nonsense and you know it. The Cavs/Magic both have a much easier opponent in Round 1 than we do, as do the Bucks/Pacers. The only team in the East that has a harder 1st round series is the 8th seed. We are the 2nd seed, but our 1st round matchup is tougher than the typical 7th seed’s.

As for the 2nd round, the Pacers arguably have an easier series against the Bucks than we would, now that we know Giannis is out for Game 1. If they beat the Bucks and we get past the Sixers somehow, the #2 seed means nothing because we’d have had HCA against the Pacers anyway.

The Thunder earned the 1 seed and they’re looking at either LeBron or Curry in round 1, then either Luka or Kawhi in round 2.

Those are not nearly comparable situations. The 1.07 SRS Lakers don’t scare me a lick. Dubs are a little better but they are clearly past their contending days. Both of these teams have underwhelmed despite all key players playing over 70 games

The Sixers are 31-8 with Embiid this season with a Celtics-like net rating of 10.5! Better than the 2015 or 2016 Warriors! 0.2 shy of the 1997 Bulls!

And they got better after most of those games, via the Hield trade. We are likely playing the 2nd strongest opponent in the East, and they are likely better than any team in the West.

With the suspect health of Giannis and Embiid, there’s a good case to be made that we have the 2nd easiest path to the conference finals in the entire NBA.

Unless Embiid’s knee explodes like a squished grape between now and next weekend this is an absolutely insane statement. It’s far more credible to say we have the 2nd hardest path.

SoNice, I cannot imagine a deep run without a somewhat effective Bogie. And if he is really effective, watch out.

If you’ve bet the Knicks to win the chip, you’re long Bogie. So I’m long Bogie. Hopefully Thibs will get out of his way and just let him play. Still a wild card … but the odds were really good.

The point is — when one player makes a leap, it might just be all the individual work the player has put in. When EVERYONE makes the leap, you have to acknowledge the environment the coach has built and all the behind-the-scenes work the coaching staff puts in with the players.

But EVERYONE didn’t make the leap, did they?

RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Obi Toppin, Nerlens Noel, even Cam Reddish. We had a lot of talented guys come through here and not make leaps. Did Thibs not work with them? Was their environment different?

Donte started making the leap in Golden State. Brunson started making the leap in Dallas. Hartenstein put up the same numbers in Los Angeles.

I’m all for giving Thibs credit but you guys take it way too far.

The 1.07 SRS Lakers don’t scare me a lick

Yeah a team with Lebron and Anthony Davis shouldn’t scare anybody come playoff time..

They will be motivated, you saw a glimpse yesterday as they destroyed the hot Pelicans

RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Obi Toppin, Nerlens Noel, even Cam Reddish. We had a lot of talented guys come through here and not make leaps.

Karl-Anthony Towns.

Thibs has his boys and he can get his boys to play well for him. But if you aren’t his boy … not so much. That limits possibilities.

Hopefully it won’t limit Bogie in the playoffs ….

For all the talk about how Thibs can’t adjust – he has adjusted A LOT this season…. This offense is completely unrecognizable compared to the last 3 Thibs years.

Those weren’t coaching adjustments. It was Donte, OG, and Hartenstein replacing RJ, Grimes, and Mitch.

Yeah a team with Lebron and Anthony Davis shouldn’t scare anybody come playoff time..

They will be motivated, you saw a glimpse yesterday as they destroyed the hot Pelicans

Unfortunately the rest of their team sucks. They played their stars 70+ games and had every reason to be motivated during the season to avoid the play-in. They failed. I’d rather play them starting from an 0-1 deficit than play the Sixers.

Nerlens Noel

Are we reaching just a tad here?

Lakers vs Knicks series

Lakers have 2 of the 3 best players and the playoffs are about star power

The Sixers are 31-8 with Embiid this season with a Celtics-like net rating of 10.5! Better than the 2015 or 2016 Warriors! 0.2 shy of the 1997 Bulls!

The Knicks are 18-2 with both Brunson and Anunoby, and their net rating with both players on the floor is an almost impossible 24.7.

I know that is only half as many games as the 76ers with Embiid amassed, and that the net rating score for the 76ers in those games is for entire games and not just when Embiid is on the floor. I couldn’t figure out how to calculate the Knicks’ team net rating in games with both Brunson and Anunoby, but I bet it is very high. Maybe somebody could corral that number, I’d be interested to know what it is.

I’m so much happier with 50 wins and a second seed. Also, happy that the Bulls gave us hell. We need to be playing well. Coach did rest players as well. No Mitch or Ihart in OT. Embiid is good but we’ve beaten good teams with their best players playing well. Trust the work. I’m sanguine on our chances

This year’s I-Hart is a comparable player to Bam, if not a flat out better player. If you look at Hartenstein’s last 20 or so games he is just wrecking the league. He ended up finishing 27th in the league in BPM and 14th in EPM. He was not playing at this level when we faced the Heat last year, he has blossomed into a truly outstanding player since then.

Last year iHart had fewer points than fouls against the Heat, this year he might be the second best player going into a possible series against them. Pretty remarkable difference.

ah, and there is the rub Dan – trust…

None of us know how to assign credit for player improvement, it’s even dumber than the minutes argument. The Knicks have, I think, 3 player development coaches and presumably some FO staff, and nobody here has any idea what they have or have not been doing. Some of our young guys improved, some didn’t.

None of us know how to assign credit for player improvement, it’s even dumber than the minutes argument

I wouldn’t say it’s “dumb” for people to attribute the credit to Thibs and his staff. Just a little overzealous.

Lakers vs Knicks series

Lakers have 2 of the 3 best players and the playoffs are about star power

Yeah but we’d have 4 of the best 6 and arguably 1 of the best 1. We also have excellent matchups for Bron and AD in OG and Mitchenstein. Who exactly is guarding our guy who has averaged 38 ppg over the last 10 games? Austin Reaves?

This

All you have to do to assess player development is to look at a player’s value relative to the value of his contract (rookie contracts excluded of course), what was traded for the player, or what was expected out of his draft slot. basically – what did the market think of this player and his potential, and what did he become?

Brunson – obviously has outplayed his contract

Randle- has outplayed his contract

Hart – would we rather have Hart (even at his contract) or Cam Reddish and Kris Murray?

Hartenstein – outplayed his contract

DDV – outplayed his contract

Miles McBride – silly Deuce signed that bargain of a contract

Mitchell Robinson – clearly outplayed being a 2nd round pick

Quentin Grimes – outplayed his late 1st status

Immanuel Quickley – outplayed his late 1st status

The misses here are RJ and Obi – but it’s not like I’m saying Thibs and co are infallible, just that they’ve done an amazing job developing players

To Hubert – I stopped reading after Nerlens Noel.

DRed – When I say Thibs I also give him credit for what the coaching staff does, because, well, it’s his coaching staff.

The Knicks are 18-2 with both Brunson and Anunoby, and their net rating with both players on the floor is an almost impossible 24.7.

I know that is only half as many games as the 76ers with Embiid amassed, and that the net rating score for the 76ers in those games is for entire games and not just when Embiid is on the floor. I couldn’t figure out how to calculate the Knicks’ team net rating in games with both Brunson and Anunoby, but I bet it is very high. Maybe somebody could corral that number, I’d be interested to know what it is.

Most of that data was compiled when we had our All-NBA PF, who won’t be around. Conversely, most of the Sixers’ data was compiled when their team was weaker than it is now, since they picked up an all-time great shooter who happens to be the perfect complement to Embiid.

just that they’ve done an amazing job developing players

Frank, I’ve lauded Thibs player development skills since the day he was hired. It’s one of the best things he has going for him.

Troy Weaver is out in Detroit after being dumb enough to trade for Evan Fournier

per CTG – 258 possessions with our current starting 5 – +15.1/100poss, (120/105)

691 possessions with Brunson+OG and no Randle – 96th percentile in offense (123.9), 100th percentile in defense (101), 100th percentile in net rating (+22.9) — is this good?

Interestingly, if you subtract out players who are unlikely to see the floor in the playoffs (Jericho Sims, Quentin Grimes), then it basically returns to “just” +15.1. Grimes + JB + OG was extremely amazing with a +46.9 net rating over 144 possessions. Oops.

Also interestingly – Mitch has been a pretty significant negative. Still not up to speed. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw more Precious than expected in the playoffs.

So our January greatness was all because of Grimes?! Fuck!

Educate_the_weaksays:
April 15, 2024 at 15:19
Lakers vs Knicks series

Lakers have 2 of the 3 best players and the playoffs are about star power

I did not realize your handle was a request

Lost in all of this is the amazing job that Morey and Nurse did to turn the lemon of the Embiid injury into the sweetest lemonade they could: a 1st round date with a team missing an all star and all sorts of other injury concerns.

Boban is amazing:

https://x.com/BradeauxNBA/status/1779690269778096625

Weaver’s not out… yet. Pistons are hiring a new POBO, who will have authority to get rid of Weaver and/or Monty Williams if he wants to.

Anyone who doesn’t want to fire Weaver should automatically be disqualified from the job.

Weaver’s not out… yet. Pistons are hiring a new POBO, who will have authority to get rid of Weaver and/or Monty Williams if he wants to.

Anyone who doesn’t want to fire Weaver should automatically be disqualified from the job.

that’s like aughts Knicks levels of mismanagement

Yeah but we’d have 4 of the best 6 and arguably 1 of the best 1.

I’m not sure this goes far enough. You could argue that zero of their non-AD/LBJ players are better than any of our top-8.

If Randle was healthy, then maybe one of DLo or Reaves makes the rotation just because we need a ballhandler. But in the playoffs both are going to be borderline unplayable on defense. The Lakers have an absolute garbage supporting cast.

Don’t understand this POV at all. Having Bogey makes us much more able to weather Randle’s injury this year, and no amount of pretending it isn’t the case will make it so Bogey isn’t signed for next year as well. We’ll have him for one playoff run without Randle and one playoff run hopefully with Randle.

Or we’ll trade him, which will render the whole debate moot.

I don’t care as much about this year as some people apparently do. I

IMO, we aren’t serious contenders this year without Randle. That was a risk when we made the trade. I also think it’s fairly obvious the plan is to use his salary in a trade for next year.

So basically we may have given up Grimes and two 2nd rounders for a warm body that’s not enough to help us win a championship this year and salary filler next year.

This is a group that argues for months about losing 5 cents of value on a dollar by rolling a pick out, but we shouldn’t care that we gave up Grimes and two 2nd rounders for salary filler we already had with Fournier?

The other possibility is that Bojan actually plays well enough in the playoffs to retain enough trade value to recover what we gave up for him. I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.

Ultimately, I think he gets traded as salary filler, but if that doesn’t materialize he ends up buried on the bench like Fournier because someone that can play defense replaces him in the rotation next year.

I think the Pacers are a terrible matchup for the Bucks. Remember how trading Holiday for Lillard was supposed to pay dividends in the playoffs because in the playoffs you need players who can create their own shot when you face playoff level defenses? (I mentioned I was skeptical of this a few days ago.). Now they are playing a team with a great offense who can run you into the ground because they play at a fast pace. I don’t see how the Bucks are going to scheme around this even though they do have five days to prepare. The Bucks could get run off the court.

Also do I trust Doc to be a better playoff coach than Carlisle? No.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

ESPN Sources: USA Basketball is finalizing its 2024 Paris Olympics roster with Steph Curry, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Joel Embiid, Devin Booker, Tyrese Haliburton, Anthony Edwards, Jrue Holiday, Bam Adebayo and Anthony Davis. Team may initially keep one open spot

I don’t care as much about this year as some people apparently do. I

IMO, we aren’t serious contenders this year without Randle. That was a risk when we made the trade

Hindsight is 20/20 and the upside of a healthy Randle and Bojan was worth it.

If you don’t care about a year where a fully healthy Knicks team was destroying the league, then I’m not sure how many years are worth caring about.

USA Basketball is finalizing its 2024 Paris Olympics roster with Steph Curry, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Joel Embiid, Devin Booker, Tyrese Haliburton, Anthony Edwards, Jrue Holiday, Bam Adebayo and Anthony Davis.

Is still rather face this team than a healthy Sixers.

They cut Brunson. I’m offended, but I’m also glad he gets to rest.

Alright if you walk IKF with the bases loaded you have to do at least one night in jail

The NBA schedule on ESPN includes ticket prices. For each city they say “tickets as low as ___”

New Orleans – $17
Cleveland – $29
Milwaukee – $30
Miami – $36
Chicago – $47
Minnesota – $56
Los Angeles – $76
Oklahoma City – $104
Boston – $112
New York – $273

https://www.espn.com/nba/schedule

The NBA schedule on ESPN includes ticket prices. For each city they say “tickets as low as ___”

New Orleans – $17
Cleveland – $29
Milwaukee – $30
Miami – $36
Chicago – $47
Minnesota – $56
Los Angeles – $76
Oklahoma City – $104
Boston – $112
New York – $273

The strongest counterpoint to the ample evidence that this league is crooked would be that the league never seems to do anything to help the Knicks when the potential incentives to do so are obvious & massive. Imagine if we actually built a perennial contender that stacks up to the Bostons of the world?

This is a group that argues for months about losing 5 cents of value on a dollar by rolling a pick out, but we shouldn’t care that we gave up Grimes and two 2nd rounders for salary filler we already had with Fournier?

Strat, do you really think Bojan is no different whatsoever than Fournier? Even if you isolate the sample to their post-trade production (which makes no sense, but whatever), that doesn’t hold up whatsoever.

Fournier had a golden opportunity to show he still had something in the tank in Detroit, and he swiftly proved he did not. Bogey can still be a rotation player on a playoff team. There. Is. No. Comparison such that discussing them interchangeably like this is unserious.

New Orleans – $17
Cleveland – $29
Milwaukee – $30
Miami – $36
Chicago – $47
Minnesota – $56
Los Angeles – $76
Oklahoma City – $104
Boston – $112
New York – $273

To be fair, those other fans are probably expecting to see their team play again after games 1 and 2.

Donnie Pagliacci over here

We seem to have had similar arguments about other players management acquired in the past. For example, why do we need Hart, or Divincenzo? I think Bogey is starting to prove he’s helpful. I’m willing wait longer to judge the trade.

To be fair, those other fans are probably expecting to see their team play again after games 1 and 2.

Donnie Pagliacci over here

Hey now, I’m on record as expecting us to win one of our first two games. I’m an optimist compared to this guy!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pMNrkgFu-oE

37 minute mark Legler says Thibs shouldn’t have chased the 2 seed and gave his team a terrible path

So tickets in Oklahoma City are 36% more expensive than tickets in LA. I wasn’t expecting that.

So tickets in Oklahoma City are 36% more expensive than tickets in LA. I wasn’t expecting that.

There are probably more Thunder fans in OKC than Clippers fans in LA

37 minute mark Legler says Thibs shouldn’t have chased the 2 seed and gave his team a terrible path

These guys are all copying each other’s homework right now just like when they all praised our deadline.

I just think it’s all kind of silly. We seem to have reached the point where analysts have officially overthought the game. Reverse jockeying for playoff positioning is a losers game and being scared of matchups never ended well for anybody. Just beat the team you’re playing and move on to the next game. The #2 seed has won 95% of all first round matchups. Shit or get off the pot.

Ousmane Dieng in the G League Championship win tonight 25 PTS 9-14 FG 5-6 3PT 6 REB 4 AST 2 BLK 1 TO Ous is still only 20 years old. 2 years younger than Dalton Knecht. 1 year younger than Zach Edey. pic.twitter.com/GYcs9ApLUz

Knicks #11 pick was used on this guy

What’s your point

I’m guessing his point was something akin to: “Couldn’t we have used this guy?” Well, arguments could go either way: His stats in the NBA have been very below average. At the same time, is he someone we could have on our bench rather than Alec Burks or Ryan Arcidiacono (yes, I know he’s not still here)? And the answer to that is “Sure, he’d probably be at least as useful as those two guys, if not potentially moreso.”

But likely he’d get little to no run under Thibs.

Dieng is a nice prospect at age 20 to have as like your #13 guy but it seems like any schmo can rack up big G league numbers, so grain of salt there I guess.

These are DaQuan Jeffries’s averages in the g-league:

22pts
5.9rebs
2.6ast

Maybe he becomes something but this isn’t a sign of coming greatness, not when he needed to hit 80% of his 3s to beat DaQuan’s averages.

KnickerBlogger: Knicks, Stats, Humor, Analysis and What’s Your Fucking Point.

Recent Posts

Recent Comments

Archives

279 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.04.15)”