From Rafael Canton:
In the past month, Knicks players Josh Hart and Quentin Grimes have voiced concerns with their role on the team. The complaints have centered around feeling involved in the offense.
“It feels like if I don’t hit the shot, I’m coming out,” Grimes said after New York’s loss to Milwaukee earlier this month. “So every shot I shoot probably weighs like 100 pounds if I don’t make it.”
The complaints highlight two difficulties that Knicks perimeter role players face. New York has an offense that annually finds itself in the bottom five in the NBA in assists, adding more pressure for players to produce despite the ball being in their hands rarely.
The other problem is there are only 96 minutes available at the two wing positions combined, making for a very competitive crowd. Hart, Grimes, RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, Donte DiVincenzo.
If you’re not playing well, there’s a multitude of options to go to.
Canton closes with:
After Mitchell Robinson’s recent ankle surgery, Thibodeau has opted to start third year center Jericho Sims the last four games while keeping Isaiah Hartenstein in a reserve role. In the four games Sims has started, the Knicks have been outscored by 16.4 points per 100 possessions in the 75 minutes the young big has been on the floor, per NBA Stats.
The Knicks are giving up 131.2 points per 100 possessions in that time which would be last in the NBA. As an alternative to minutes with Sims, the Knicks could explore playing Randle at the five while getting Quickley, DiVincenzo and Grimes more minutes in smaller lineups with better spacing.
Wins quiet any player grumblings. The Knicks have the sixth best record in the Eastern Conference at 14-11. But if the team ever hits a significant losing streak or struggles, this kind of small tension can bubble to the surface and become a larger story.
I’ll be frank, I just wanted an article to start to use to start a new thread, but hey, if this inspires any discussion, go for it.
56 replies on “SNY.com: How Knicks’ crowded wing rotation is a concern to monitor all season”
Thanks, Brian. Tonight’s game might be the most impactful game of this trip. We match up better with the Lakers than we did with the Clips. Obviously LeBron and AD are problems (and I would start iHart and have him on the floor whenever AD is out there) but the rest of the team is weaker than the deep, wing-heavy LAC team.
Of course, this will probably be known in perpetuity as the Cam Reddish Game.
Will Reddish replace Sumner in our vocabulary?
Developing IQ and Grimes, and to a lesser extent McBride is a huge priority for this team, and so far DDV’s signing is hurting their development. Not good.
When I’m taking about lineup changes I’m talking about this year.
When I’m talking about personnel changes I’m talking about creating a 4-5 year window of contention that’s probably going to require multiple changes that will occur over time (maybe another season or two).
RJ is younger and imo will get better.
Randle is the better player, but he’s 29, volatile emotionally, takes possessions off on defense, and less proven to hold his form in the playoffs.
So if you agree with me that we need better shooting to create better spacing and better perimeter defense, one change that seems likely is one them has to be traded. From a short term perspective we’d be better off keeping. From a long term perspective imo we’d be better off with RJ. However, trading Randle for a more 3&D type player would require another trade to replace his usage, most likely at the SG position. That doesn’t have to occur immediately if we are thinking longer term.
There are other paths to where I think we have to go to reach contention that could involve trading RJ, trading both RJ and Randle, trading Mitch etc… but I think we have to upgrade our perimeter defense a bit and improve our spacing bit to become a serious team.
Some long term moves could cause a short term mild decline to be better positioned.
It’s all moot though. They aren’t trading Randle. If anyone goes, it seems more likely it’s going to be Quickley, RJ or Grimes. The Villanova crew is protected unless one of them becomes very unhappy with his role.
What has two thumbs and spent another weekend in the hospital? This time, it was for Covid. Fun fun fun, though I am definitely feeling much better than when I went in.
I bring this up not for sympathy, but to say that the sheer boredom of being there led to me finally watching Eddie, the 1996 movie where Whoopi Goldberg plays a Knicks fan who winds up as the team’s head coach as a publicity stunt by the new owner. It’s a ridiculous movie in many ways, not least of which being that the owner is planning to sell the Knicks to people who want to move the team to St. Louis. But my god, is it a cavalcade of Nineties NBA Guys! The fake players on Goldberg’s team are played by, among others, Rick Fox, Malik Sealy, Dwayne Schintzius, Greg Ostertag, John Salley, and Mark Jackson. There are also cameos by John Starks, Anthony Mason, and Herb Williams, and Clyde gets to deliver a joke at one point!
I would not call it a “good” movie, but it was a very nice distraction from more health stupidity.
Nice to know you already have one rock solid entry for your best sports movies of the 1990s discussion.
I think Schintzius got Best Mullet in a Supporting Role award that year…
Celtic Pride is another great underrated basketball movie from 1996.
Sorry about the Covid Alan.
I have a 45 year old buddy who got it but didn’t realize it. His home tests didn’t work on the variant he got it turns out. He was really sick, couldn’t keep anything down. Finally went to the hospital. They told him if he hadn’t come in within 24 hours he would have gone into full renal failure and possibly died.
Still nothing to mess with
Let’s just say, for fun, that James L Dolan sold the Knicks to BassPro CEO and billionaire John Morris, and Morris moved the team to Missouri. Would you all remain fans?
Well on that cheerful note….Owen….happy birthday Charles Oakley! Even though our beloved owner’s card is likely lost in the mail, here at KB we wish you all the best.
And happy birthday to me! I’m on a beach though, so fuck it.
E’s attempted defense of RJ last thread was my very favorite, especially with JK’s shot attempt take-down. Just want to add that one of the people dealing with that ‘clogged paint’ has been all-NBA two of the last three years, and the other is possibly going to be one this year. So, you know, poor RJ, so unfair…
Happy B’Day Raven! 🍾🥂 And good that you’re getting better, Alan, covid can still be a problem especially for people that didn’t have it before.
Jeez Alan, happy you’re feeling better but sorry you went through that!
Happy Birthday Raven! I believe the shot attempt takedown you mentioned was actually my own. Thibs has his flaws, but if his harshest critics think we need to shift to making RJ Barrett the highest-usage player on the team…think I’ll stick with Thibs.
So the electrical grid knockout from the weekend knocked out my Uptime/daily news bot server. I didn’t have something making sure that started back up, hence why there’s been no news. I figured it out & it should be back up again.
Nah, when Randle operates in the paint, it’s because he’s a selfish empty calorie stat padder. When RJ operates in the paint, it’s because he’s young and improving and that’s the best way to utilize his skill set!
When Randle plays poorly on defense, it’s because he’s being lazy and taking plays off. When RJ plays poorly on defense, it’s because he’s young and the stats don’t accurately capture his impact on the defensive end.
By the way, next year will be RJ’s 6th season. Randle’s 6th season (not counting his first when I just played in one game), it was his second season with us – which was his all-star, all NBA season.
So yes, RJ is younger but he’s also got a huge leap to make next year if he wants to get on track and do anything close to what Randle has done the last 3.5 seasons with us.
RJ is “more proven” in the playoffs because he was so awful last year that his decent play in the playoffs looked like freaking MJ in comparison.
He didn’t even play THAT great and he was awful against Atlanta in 2021.
Against Atlanta he was 6-15, 5-14, 2-9, 8-15 (WOW!), and 5-14.
Last playoffs he was 2-12, 4-13, 8-12, 9-18, 7-13, 10-20, 8-17, 5-16, 9-16, 8-17, 1-10
So even last playoffs, “good” RJ was bad in games 1 and 2 against Cleveland. Then he had 3 good games to close out that series (although 9-18 is just at 50 percent). Then against Miami he was again 50% in game 1, bad in game 2, good in game 3, ok in game 4, good in game 5 and awful in game 6.
So it’s not like he set the world on fire. It was just good in comparison to his absolutely horrible regular season.
I mean good for him. But this RJ steps up for the playoffs narrative needs to stop.
But this RJ steps up for the playoffs narrative needs to stop.
I have not been in the RJ camp since the start of last season. In weighing up his pluses and minuses, playing better than he usually does when it matters most is definitely a plus. I wouldn’t necessarily categorise it as complimentary as “he steps up for the playoffs”– but we don’t need to trivialise that aspect of his value when coming to the conclusion Julius is right now the far superior player.
Playoff RJ is just like regular season RJ. He’ll have a good game or two and then everybody (myself included) says hey, maybe RJ has turned the corner for real this time! Then a game or two later, we get hit with a heavy dose of “nah” and dude is brickin’ it up again.
There’s almost something beautiful about it all. Like the leaves changing in autumn. The circle of life. RJ gets the longest leash of any Knick I have ever seen. At some level, we all still believe.
I believe on some level that it’s a nice bone to throw to all the RJ stans in Knicksville generally to be positive about him when he plays well.
But I have not believed in RJ since he was at Duke.
Although I am starting to believe in the ft shooting.
You’re such an OG purist. Thanks for doing this!
RJ should be compared to other 3rd-best-players / 3rd options on good teams, not in some universal scoring. He’s not a 1, and never will be one. He’s not a 2, and probably never will be one either. I think he could be a 3, maybe.
I think RJ should be compared to players in his usage range regardless of where he falls on the “option” totem poll, which will always be an inexact science as evidenced by him actually shooting more on a rate basis than Randle this year.
There are 58 players with a USG% of 25 or higher who have taken 100+ FGAs. RJ’s TS% ranks 49th in that group. Not many ways to put lipstick on that pig.
As to not hide the ball, Randle’s is 48th, which is also quite bad. But Randle has been quite good for the vast majority of the season–it’s kind of amazing that through 25 games Randle’s TS% is .550, but for the last 19 it’s .601.
Hey, I’ve never believed in RJ going back to his year at Duke.
RJ RJ RJ…RJ RJ RJ…
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I’m not really getting the RJ reference.
There’s nothing remotely “inexact” (*) in the straightforward and obvious observation that when he’s on with Randle and Brunson, which is most of his minutes, he’s the third option and typically gets their backwash. He does in fact, as the numbers show, pick up some “extra” FG attempts when he’s on with the second unit, which does nothing to water down the main point.
(*) The same can be said for the straightforward English words “modern” and “normal,” which have also been nefariously placed into a fictitious blender of truther confusion.
His 23-24 TS% of .550 matches his career Knick TS%. It’s his long-established level.
(Other than in the playoffs of course, where he’s been nowhere near that.)
Beginning of the 2022-2023 season through today:
RJ with Brunson and Randle OFF: .527 TS%
RJ with Brunson and Randle ON: .547 TS%
Seems like the “backwash” is helping, actually! I’m sure it will make an enormous difference to E that he is indisputably incorrect and he will revise his opinion accordingly.
quid pro quo doogie…
it’s meant as derision…people talking about the same shit incessantly, it drives me crazy…i’m learning to stay in neutral, mostly though i’m stuck in high gear moving forward…i hate going backwards…
see, i’m a dick doogie, i hide it okay…fuck, my family/friends know though – bless them for still loving me…i’m back to being mad a lot of the time again, somehow it’s tied into me getting shit done in my life…for some strange reason, getting angry helps me take action…fucking go figure, this shit is so weird…
okay then doogie – what is your favorite music for setting a romantic environment please?
Julius messes RJ up so bad that RJ is still trying to clean out the cobwebs after Julius is taken out of the game. Just being in the building with Julius makes RJ stink
Get your vaccines, everyone. Flu season is no joke!
you better not be sick jowles, al used up all the compassion/empathy for the week with his covid cooties encounter…
speaking of which – how are you feeling pepper? hope your family is well…
Julius Randle is such a cancer he gives his teammates migraines.
I’m sick, but in the everyday general existence sorta way
i got ya, that’s an easy fix…it’s science THCJ…
Endorphin – work out, listen to some music
Dopamine – groom yourself, wash the dishes or do the laundry
Oxytocin – be nice to someone else, if you got a pet, spend some time with them
Serotonin – go outside, take a walk, meditate
if all that fails, try sticking a couple of tasers against your temples, and have at it…
Maybe “At Last” by Etta James…….
I will reiterate again that the people who are claiming RJ is a secret good player are the “truthers” here. The empirical evidence says he stinks. The burden of proof is on the people who are saying he’s good. Saying “RJ gets the backwash” is a lot like saying “globalists are harvesting adrenochrome.” Burden of proof is on you.
doing better….took me a solid week to get over the meat of it…was weird ….my lower body was aching such that i couldn’t sleep without tylenol…but finally tested negative and put the wife at ease…moving to Phoenix next week…house is full of boxes and shit…always kind of a weird vibe when you’re about to move…especially after 15 years here in the Bay…
and feliz cumpleanos to Raven!
Hope all of our ailing KBloggers are on the mend! I had a podcast appearance canceled for tomorrow night because one of the hosts has COVID. Scary stuff!
I was just laid out for 4 days myself. The same thing happens every year: I get the covid shot in November, and then in December I’m crippled with Covid while I read about how incredibly effective the new shots are. I’m not about to move to the anti-vax camps over in Stupidville, but I gotta say I’m a little jaded. My faith in vaccines is beginning to feel like the experience of people who believe in RJ Barrett.
I didn’t get the shot this yeah, and my girlfriend just got it bad. But despite having been everywhere with her, I didn’t get it. C’est la vie.
I need to be talked out of the idea that Kenneth Lofton Jr. makes some sense for us.
Like, I know I’m wrong and just want to see that very large fellow play for us, but you can kind of tell yourself a story about how 10-12 minute disorienting backup PF is his ideal (and probably only) NBA role. That’s pretty much the one bench role we have left to offer.
might not want to advertise that dude…you’ll be like the girl in Last of Us and they’re gonna wanna lay you out on the operating table and do some “research” on you to find the cure…
Last I checked, RJ is at a career-high .548 TS% and his 0.5 BPM is better than Mitch, iHart, JHart and Grimes. Strangely, his DBPM is at a career low despite KFS and Katz saying that his defense has been quite good and significantly improved over last year. The team is 12-8 with him in the lineup and 2-3 with him out. As such, I fall squarely in the middle of the two poles of today’s RJ banter. He’s improved over last year, and seems to be rebounding from the post-migraine doldrums. He’s certainly not killing us! But that said, he’s hardly having a year to get excited about.
My hope is that the bad runs of games get shorter and the good runs of games get longer. We’ll see!
oh canada…
“Like, I know I’m wrong and just want to see that very large fellow play for us, but you can kind of tell yourself a story about how 10-12 minute disorienting backup PF is his ideal (and probably only) NBA role. That’s pretty much the one bench role we have left to offer.”
Any change from the DaQuan Jeffries Experience is cool by me. Fat guys who can ball have always intrigued me! I remember playing in the Asphalt Green league back in the 1990’s against a Rucker-level team that had an older guy that was like 6’5″ 400 lbs who singlehandedly kicked our butts, all while laughing and talking to guys on the bench. We were like gnats circling around him trying to steal the ball but he just walked the ball up court dribbling through his legs and crossing over, drilling threes, midranges and layups as if we weren’t even there.
RJ’s BPM is not 0.5, it’s -1.7 which is only better than Grimes’ out of players getting regular playing time. His OBPM is 0.5 which puts him between McBride and Mitchell Robinson.
The 3 losses that he missed coincided with Randle’s horrific start to the season; I’d argue that those losses had more to do with Randle playing horrible than whether RJ played or not.
Sorry for the typo, I meant OBPM…with that correction the comment stands.
Noble, apologies for the misattribution, and your wish is my command, courtesy of Hollinger:
That said, the path of least resistance remains waiving Kenneth Lofton Jr., which the Memphis Commercial Appeal reported as the expected path this weekend. Lofton showed up overweight and has been ineffective in his rare appearances. Indeed, one of the enduring questions in what increasingly looks like a lost Memphis season is why the Grizzlies didn’t use their nontaxpayer midlevel exception on a big man and cut Lofton this summer.
Clippers 151 Pacers 127
And we think we have defensive issues…
Harden with 35 via 12-16. Seems like he might be rounding into form.
I’ll be one of the few watching this game due to my current time zone (Maui), so I’ll be hootin’ and hollerin’ into the void here, but Lady Raven booked dinner in the middle, so likely I’ll go silent after halftime.
I’m with you, Raven.
I should be able to stay awake for entire game but doubt I’ll be posting much.
Sorry, Z-Man, I spoke too soon. Laptop’s not letting me on.
Enjoy the game…
How about the Cavs beating the Rockets in OT without Mobley and Garland? Who the hell is Sam Merrill?