(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:57:00 AM)
With the top two picks in the 2019 NBA draft seemingly set in stone, a dozen or so players are vying to be selected in the remaining eight spots of the top 10.
Darius Garland, a freshman guard from Vanderbilt, is projected as a lock for that group. Despite only playing in five games during his…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:10:02 PM)
Although they brought in Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland for a last-minute workout today, the Knicks remain locked in on selecting Duke forward R.J. Barrett with the No. 3 overall pick, reports ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski (via Twitter). With just over 24 hours to go until the 2019 NBA draft, rumors continue to trickle in about […]
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:04:22 PM)
Conflicting reports on the dynamics between Chris Paul and James Harden surfaced on Tuesday, with one report describing their relationship as “unsalvagable,” while GM Daryl Morey declared that everything is fine in Houston. Regardless on exactly where things stand, the Rockets may be stuck with the pairing for the foreseeable future. There’s “not a team […]
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:23:30 PM)
If the Knicks draft him, RJ Barrett knows he’d be responsible for helping turn around a franchise that has won just one playoff series in the last 19 years. And he’s OK with that.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:30:35 PM)
The Knicks have the tools to reshape their roster and build a contender.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:25:00 PM)
Vanderbilt’s Darius Garland said his solo workout with the Knicks on Wednesday went well and he got no indication that the club wouldn’t consider taking him with the No. 3 pick.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:15:41 PM)
With the Knicks projected to take Duke’s R.J. Barrett with the third-overall pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, here’s a look at some of the most notable names to come out of Duke who never panned out in the NBA.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:18:54 PM)
With the rumors swirling around Chris Paul leaving the Rockets, teams that could absorb his contract like the Knicks were immediately brought up.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:57:46 AM)
NBA Draft season is upon us, and the Knicks were awarded the No. 3 overall pick following the NBA Draft Lottery. As June 20 approaches to them being on the clock, here is the latest about the top prospects in this year’s Draft class as it pertains to the Knicks…
[NYTimes] Knicks NBA Draft target RJ Barrett ready for challenge of playing in New York (Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:23:30 PM)
If the Knicks draft him, RJ Barrett knows he’d be responsible for helping turn around a franchise that has won just one playoff series in the last 19 years. And he’s OK with that.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:30:35 PM)
The Knicks have the tools to reshape their roster and build a contender.
[NYTimes] Darius Garland thinks Knicks are serious about considering him at No. 3 in NBA Draft (Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:25:00 PM)
Vanderbilt’s Darius Garland said his solo workout with the Knicks on Wednesday went well and he got no indication that the club wouldn’t consider taking him with the No. 3 pick.
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:15:41 PM)
With the Knicks projected to take Duke’s R.J. Barrett with the third-overall pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, here’s a look at some of the most notable names to come out of Duke who never panned out in the NBA.
[NYTimes] Knicks reportedly declined Rockets on potential Chris Paul trade (Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:18:54 PM)
With the rumors swirling around Chris Paul leaving the Rockets, teams that could absorb his contract like the Knicks were immediately brought up.
[NYTimes] Knicks’ NBA Draft Tracker: Ja Morant a lock at No. 2 after Grizzlies trade (Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:57:46 AM)
NBA Draft season is upon us, and the Knicks were awarded the No. 3 overall pick following the NBA Draft Lottery. As June 20 approaches to them being on the clock, here is the latest about the top prospects in this year’s Draft class as it pertains to the Knicks…
(Thursday, June 20, 2019 2:29:07 AM)
Zion Williamson is a huge talent, but hardly the only intrigue or storyline in Thursday’s NBA draft at Barclays Center. Will the Knicks hold onto the third pick, and if so, will they take RJ Barrett as expected or Darius Garland? After the Pelicans got the No. 4 pick in the Anthony Davis deal, do…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:27:28 PM)
Tobias Harris turned down an $80 million contract extension last summer to bet on himself. Now, the Long Island native is set to cash in. The question is will it be to come to his hometown Nets, to stay in Philadelphia or to go elsewhere? One way or another, Harris — who was at Steve…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:43:55 PM)
Across the room, the mob was waiting for Zion Williamson. The expected No. 1 pick in the 2019 NBA Draft was due at the Grand Hyatt ballroom any second, but the jockeying for position began long before that. Nearby, a group about the same size waited for RJ Barrett, Williamson’s teammate at Duke and the…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:36:03 PM)
Jarrett Culver is just hours away from completing his journey to the NBA, but his development started with a familial rivalry. Fresh from leading Texas Tech to the national championship game, Culver is one of the best two-way players in the draft, and could be a top-5 pick. The 20-year-old credits much of his success…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:01:23 PM)
There have been few recent nights like the one awaiting the Knicks Thursday night. There have been so few times across the past 20 years when the Knicks have only good things awaiting them on any night of the calendar, June or January or any night in between. Thursday is one of those nights. Thursday,…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:03:15 PM)
Duke star RJ Barrett has said for weeks his hope is to play for the Knicks. On the eve of the NBA draft, he explained one more reason why. “It would mean a lot,’’ Barrett said during Wednesday’s draft press conference. “My late grandfather, rest in peace, he was the biggest Knicks fan. He always…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:47:56 PM)
As the Chris Paul-James Harden feud tears up the Rockets, the Knicks refused an offer from Houston for Chris Paul, per The Ringer. Trading Paul, who is in the second year of a massive four-year $160 million deal, would open up much needed cap space for the Rockets — as well as alleviate the reported…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:20:39 PM)
Zion Williamson won’t be a Knick barring stunning upheaval at the top of Thursday night’s NBA draft, but the Duke phenom is certain they won’t be disappointed if they select his close friend and one-and-done former college teammate RJ Barrett. “He’s cold-blooded,” the almost-certain No. 1 pick said on Wednesday at the Grand Hyatt in…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:33:14 AM)
Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland said he believes the Knicks wouldn’t have invited him down Wednesday if they weren’t considering drafting him. “If they called me to work out, I believe so,’’ Garland said in the lobby of the Midtown Grand Hyatt hotel where the draft prospects are staying. Garland, who played five games at…
(Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:01:27 AM)
Kevin Durant’s Achilles injury occurred nine days ago in Toronto. His surgery to repair the rupture occurred one week ago in New York. ESPN’s Jay Williams, a Durant friend and a partner with Durant’s manager Rich Kleiman on “The Boardroom,” told The Post it’s too early for the Warriors superstar to figure out what the…
291 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.06.20)”
Draft day! The most wonderful day of the year — even if the prospect we’re likely to take seems flawed at best!
Let’s get a top 20 pick and get Bitadze. At least Bitadze can be a Knick and Zion is not.
With all the hype for Zion, any chance he’ll be a flop?
Also, come on guys. Third pick. Rn Barrett. Don’t hate.
I don’t like him that much but here’s my bold take that the ROTY race will see a Zion vs. RJ duel, a la Bron vs. Melo in 2004.
My status today:
1) Feeling comfortable with drafting any of RJ, Morant, or Garland. Not feeling great about trading down past 4 unless there’s a king’s ransom.
2) wondering whether the plan is still to sign Kyrie and KD – teams are trying to dump picks into salary space and Knicks are curiously absent from those rumors. And the recent hemming and hawing by Nets’ sources make me wonder whether all that certainty about Kyrie going to to BKN was a bit premature. Would be seriously hilarious if the Nets cleared that space and traded away 1st rounders and don’t even get the guy they are targeting. The Kyrie KD plan is fine I guess but I’d still rather sign KD, tank another year, rent cap space, then do it all again in summer 2020.
3) Is it just me or has DSJ really been under the radar this summer?
I’m ok with getting Barrett. It’s a better crapshoot than eight and ten would be. After reading about him, I’m really curious to actually see him play.
I’m going to hope that Ja somehow falls to us. Otherwise, I want Garland and then Culver and RJ are about equal to me.
Draft and keep Rj.
Then let’s think about FA after.
You know what trade I would like to see? Gordon Hayward for Chris Paul and a pick. That sounds like a win for both sides.
It’s the big day! I’m not even nervous anymore. Sure, a month ago I needed to keep an inhaler filled with smelling salts on a chain around my neck (attached note: “use in case of draft discussion”) but I’m okay now. I’ve accepted I will be disappointed no matter what. I briefly hoped Morant would fall but Memphis can’t possibly be that dumb, can they?
I’m hoping DSJ takes a couple steps forward this off-season. He seems kind of self-centered but he definitely makes an effort. I’m thinking that’s our best chance for two bright spots next season.
I’ve been in the “just draft Barrett” camp all along but I’m really curious what Griffin is offering to Memphis to move up and whether or not we should take that offer and select Garland. I’d be pretty happy with Garland and some of those Laker picks and swaps.
Kyrie as the only healthy star on a team filled with young kids would be… interesting, after the events of last season.
I think it’s a semantics issue re “right.” I think bob is saying it would be “wrong” for NBA workers to complain about being “slaves”, not that they don’t have a civil “right” to complain. While I find bob’s language grotesquely inappropriate, I agree with the premise that there is absolutely zero justification for comparing the “plight” of the NBA draftee to anything resembling slavery, indentured servitude, or any other historically oppressive worker exploitation framework. Frankly, I find it stupid, petty, and below the dignity of this board to make or defend these outrageous comparisons. It may not be a perfect system for the workers, but the NBA players union and Michele Roberts swing a pretty big hammer in CBA negotiations, and players get half of the profits, take on none of the risk, and are hugely impactful in determining how their half is divvied up.
Did I do that? I did not.
We live in an oppressive worker exploitation framework. We’re just used to it, and many of us have internalized the arguments of oppression like:
It is insulting to suggest that mere money is a greater ‘risk’ in an endeavor than the time and effort involved in labor. Investors put up money. Workers put up their time and effort. In this dichotomy workers are risking far more than investors are. But we privledge money over work. We tax investors less, we treat their money like it’s the driving economic factor and not just the end result, we act as if the money is special but the knowledge, skill, and labor required are so replaceable as to be inconsequential.
In any case the players do their best within the confines of the system the NBA has erected, and good on them. That says nothing about the nature of that system. This particular part of it, rookies have no real choice of where to play, exists only to prop up unsuccessful franchises. To defend that with a market argument is grotesque.
This was the biggest straw man of the whole conversation. No one made this comp.
Hit him with the uppercut, Z-Man! You got that straw on the ropes!!
The closest thing you had was ABK bringing up my month old quote about David Griffin’s celebration reminding me of a scene in a movie that evokes feelings about the exploitation of African Americans. The logical leap required to say that equals me saying the NBA is like slavery is wider than the Grand Canyon.
@13 Capital is just the output of work, transmuted into money, then saved, instead of consumed.
As I see it there’s two possibilities if the rumors are true and Griffin is really looking to trade ahead of us to get Barrett:
1) We’re playing hardball with him because we really love RJ. That would be a not great sign in my eyes. He’s not a good enough prospect to be falling in love with. If you can get value to move down you should really be moving down, particularly when you’re still talent-barren, which we are.
2) We’re playing hardball with him because if he jumps ahead of us to get RJ then we get Morant! This is a bit of a galaxy brain strategy, but if it pays off it could be a huge win.
But yeah I’m pretty sure the answer is just that our front office is in love with RJ.
@13 Capital is just the output of work, transmuted into money, then saved, instead of consumed.
we are literally two posts away from the cambridge capital controversy and if it happens on draft day i’m going back to my nba slack.
There’s also 3) we’re playing hardball with him so that if he can’t trade with Memphis, he knows he has to overpay to deal with us.
The NBA is all about taking advantage of the desperate. And it really seems like Griffin is desperate to team Zion up with his best friend for non basketball reasons. This is a great situation to take advantage of.
Grain of salt: it seems the entire source of this rumor is local NY media, Berman and Vescey. Could be BS coming from the Knicks front office to hype Barrett up to the fans. Probably is, frankly. Because it really doesn’t make sense.
Yep, where you compared the situation to Get Out. That was and is an outrageous comp. For one, you’ve already conceded that the “exploitation” we’re discussing here has nothing to do with race. In fact, the NBA is much better than the whitest major sport in the US. There is nothing remotely similar to Get Out here, which dealt with the enslavement and murder of black people.
Holy strawman!! Hard to even know where to begin with Grocer’s comments. For one, no one (except maybe bob) said they had no right to complain.
Yikes. That’s not what risk means. Risk is offering up something when you may not get anything back. With guaranteed contracts the players have no risk. They get paid no matter their performance. The owners bear the losses of the league underperforms.
Oh no, the situation is better than that. Players get half of REVENUES, not profits. That means no matter how much money the league makes players get more than 50% of the profits.
I’ll be shocked if the Knicks don’t stay at #3 and draft RJ. I will not be shocked when the Pels will draft RJ at #2 and we draft Garland at #3. #dolansrazor
Also, the Heat just acquired a second round pick (the #44) for 1.88 million dollars and a fake 2024 second round pick. So, you definitely can still buy those.
WHY DON’T WE EVER DO IT
Not to mention ACL tear, ruptured achilles, and a thousand other injuries every NBA player goes through. Or regular elbows to the head when going for a rebound, and the other aspects of the physical play. When is the last time an investor suffered a scratch investing in the NBA?
Or the enormous pressure of being a star and for some players being expected to pull your entire family into stardom and the 1% at 17-18-19 years old.
WHY DON’T WE EVER DO IT
this really confuses me. meaning, i literally have no idea what the actual answer might be.
debit -high second round pick
credit +emmanuel mudiay
debit -$5 million guaranteed
credit -Ron Baker
debit -$1.88 million
credit — no fucking way too pricey
Sraffa and Robinson were right to this very day!
It does sound like a win for both sides but I want to see the Celtics continue piling up L’s.
I could be wrong but I said nothing of the sort:
When referring to Hubert’s comment on the NO GM pounding the table i think I said:
I don’t see any mention of complaining there, but a whole lot of incredulity at someone conflating the NBA draft into some form of chattel slavery.
Of course basketball players have the right to bitch and moan about anything at any time. I DO think it is kinda rich to imply they are somehow being treated in any way unfairly/ poorly when they are extremely well paid getting a specific negotiated percentage of revenue and work under work rules that are the envy of the world.
Now…. back to our far more interesting regularly scheduled…
Not to mention ACL tear, ruptured achilles, and a thousand other injuries every NBA player goes through.
For which they get the best health care in the world PAID FOR BY SOMEONE ELSE.
I can’t believe this argument is still going on but I guess you can never underestimate the virtue-signaling compulsion of certain white folks.
Mike
Dude, you’re taking it too far. I didn’t say the NBA is like every subject touched on in the movie Get Out.
I said two specific scenes were “eerily similar.” In both cases, a white man who should have been at the end of his run wildly celebrated being granted a recharged second life by winning a contest for the rights of a young black man. That’s it. Don’t read more into it or add things about slavery to it.
I thought the scene at the lottery was creepy. That was my point. If you want to argue that it wasn’t creepy, go ahead. But any other argument is a straw man.
But any other argument is a straw man.
“How dare you inject race into the discussion while I’m explicitly injecting race into the discussion!”
Mike
Did you actually read the article I posted that started all this? It wasn’t about the players being treated unfairly. It was about whether or not there is a more optimal situation for the league than the current one.
We keep going through the same song and dance of players forcing their way off the teams that drafted them. The question is about whether or not everyone involved (teams, fans, players) would be better off with a system that allowed for some degree of choice.
The example cited in the article was of medical graduates who have to submit a fairly long list of places they’d be happy to work. Medical Employers make a list of the graduates who are their top priorities. Then a matching system takes place that assigns graduates to their employer. They don’t get to choose which specific employer they work for, but they are guaranteed not to be chosen by someone they absolutely don’t want to work for.
Would a system like that be better than the draft? That was the point I was trying to raise.
It’s not creepy, because the owners do not supernaturally take over the bodies of the NBA players and remove their brains. Therefore, it is not exactly the same as the events of Get Out and cannot be compared, because that is the rule for analogies now.
This is more than a minor issue. Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance has always been challenging, but in our current cultural moment, overcompensating for decades if not centuries of bigotry and imbalance, it is very difficult to have a logical debate about anything. People have become accustomed to misreading a statement, or reading into a statement, and then jumping all over the person with knives drawn. Add to that outlets like Fox deliberately skewing the facts and misrepresenting situations – along with the willingness of people to commit themselves to that experience, as it tells them what they want to believe is true – and you have a recipe for cultural disaster.
Go Knicks!
I’m calling this now: We will come out of this draft with Cam Reddish as our highest selection and I will ignore this organization for the next 5 years and get more work done than ever.
So imagine, instead of New Orleans and Memphis being the big winners tonight for no reason beyond chance, each team had to convince Zion, Morant, and Barrett of their worthiness. All players would have to submit a list of teams they would be happy to play for, with at least three being in the lottery. Guys like Zion would have smaller lists. Players desperate to be drafted would include everyone.
There would be a recruiting battle during the weeks after the NBA playoffs. Every non playoff team making their pitch to the prospects to be on their list.
Then team priority would be on some sort of sliding scale of your record and your recent selection. So if you got the most coveted player one year, it would put you lower in the selection order the next year. Talent would be spread out, but teams that are atrocious would miss out until they do something to become less atrocious.
That was the point of the article I posted. That was the discussion I intended to raise.
That was a spilled coffee moment of laughter for me. 🙂
I’ve been under a tremendous amount of stress waiting for the results of a 5 year follow up brain MRI. Thank God it came back clean. Today is off to good start!
Oh god how will I write next season’s recaps
The Pels trading up to take Barrett really would be the best case scenario, since this way, even if Barrett becomes a star and Morant’s knee injury turns out to be a real problem, you can’t really knock the Knicks, as another team traded ahead of them to take him, ya know?
What I don’t get, though, is if the Grizzlies are clearly taking Morant, then why don’t the the Pellies come up with an offer to get the Knicks to swap #3 and #4 with them? There’s no way that the Knicks are completely committed to Barrett, right? What would the Pellies have to offer to get the Knicks to move down a spot? What would be worth it?
That’s amazing news!
Now let’s get back to Austrian economics 😀
I would really like to come out of this draft with more than one solid player. I’m fine with Barrett, but I’d also like to come away with someone like Brandon Clarke who’s ready to come in and do some work right now.
Let’s get things rolling on this rebuild.
We have two Dallas 1st rounders. Against my better judgement, it seems management is also determined to move Frank (as least if Berman is telling the truth). That’s a lot of assets to work with to get a pick good enough to draft Brandon Clarke giving he seems to have dropped quite a bit.
That NBA players have comparatively strong labor rights is not an argument against the idea that NBA players are exploited–you can be exploited despite being treated better than someone in another industry. Meatpacking in the early 20th century was horrible–but it was way better than coal mining. That doesn’t mean that meat packers weren’t exploited. Head video game designers making 6 figures and working 100 hour weeks during crunch time are also exploited, and so on, up the pay scale.
Exploitation is a relation between businesses and their workers, not a comparative index among workers. Considering that there’s literally no risk at all involved in owning an NBA team–neither to one’s body nor to one’s profits (owning an NBA team yields a considerable and reliable ROI), I’d say labor deserves a much bigger piece of the pie than they’re currently given, especially when you consider that there’d be literally no product without the players, whereas it’s pretty easy to conceive of the sport without owners. And to the extent that players aren’t paid their value or are deprived of rights we think that every worker ought to have (say, the freedom to choose who they work for) there is exploitation.
Also, I think it’s pretty obvious that both from a market perspective and from a labor rights perspective the NBA should have something pretty close to total freedom of contract–no RFA/rookie-scale/individual max bullshit. Opening up the contract bylaws of the NBA will simultaneously solve the freedom of movement problem for the workers.
Thanks.
I need a mellow day. Arguing the draft and Frank is going to be my limit today. No politics or economics today.
Congrats, Strat, that’s great news. The French Prince definitely needs you around.
The problem is that Clarke doesn’t even seem to be on Mills/Perry’s radar. If we get another first round pick (and I highly doubt it) we’re going to pick another swing for the fences guy, like Nassir Little or Romeo Langford. Book it.
The article was about players being treated unfairly, but your description of the scene at the draft lottery was specifically and completely willfully chock full or racially charged language stating poor, poor, Zion stood helplessly by while he was being auctioned of my a group of mostly old white guys…..
You said precisely what you intended to say and got called on it. So be it…..
Shit Strat. Congratulations! Puts Knicks into perspective, still let’s get us a fucking winning season.
We aren’t going to kick using straw men to the curb. It’s a big part of what we do around here.
My anxiety about tonight is starting to boil. I have to say though, for the first time in a long time, I don’t have a clearly defined idea of what I want either from the draft or offseason. It’s about as blank a slate as the Knicks have had in 20 years and Scott Perry actually has my sympathy right now. Not sure he has any easy way to please all the various stakeholders out there.
Grats Strat, that’s a big relief, I’m sure.
@47
The draft is pretty easy to predict. We’ll stay put and draft Barrett at #3. It’s the easiest way not to displease anyone.
Free agency, on the other hand…
Draft Barrett unless someone offers another high lotto and you have someone else rated as high. Now, there may not be that. These guys have been scouted since middle school. It’d actually be scary if someone could vault up on the board on draft day based on some stupid three on three workout or something 🙂
I think it becomes more likely that KD comes here now. Him and GS have a face saving excuse. Him for moving on and them for staying out of luxury tax hell.
Once he’s on board we’re in the driver’s seat even if he doesn’t come back exactly to what he was. We sign Kyrie or we tank one more year for another lotto shot. Everyone will want to play for NYK.
It seems as though the Knick’s strategy is choose Barrett if he is the BPA at 3 and hope Zion really really wants Barrett on NO and NO does something silly like trade with Memphis or us for future considerations. Either way we end up with Barrett, Ja, Garland or trade down with Atlanta for 3 picks….any of those scenarios seems fine.
It also seems the still believe they can bag both KD and KI or Leonard (less likely) because they haven’t yet moved to grab assets to park bad contracts. That availability should still be out there as teams want to get below the luxury tax or need space to bag a FA.
An interesting next few days.
Oh! You feel sorry for a rich corporate executive who makes the gdp of a small island nation annually! 😉
I’d do Lonzo and the #4 pick for our #3 pick in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, not sure the Pels would.
Are you aware of ketogenic diets and the Warburg Effect as well as periodic fasting to enhance autophagy???
This + the source of the rumor is Berman leads me to believe the Knicks are actually behind this rumor for some reason.
Maybe they are trying to increase the perceived value of the 3rd pick in a trade negotiation?
This stat doesn’t really prove anything, especially since a lot of these guys were absolute studs and just happened to never win a title (Ewing, Webber, Lanier, Sampson) and the more recent guys have obviously not had a chance yet (Anthony Bennett and Markelle Fultz will soon team up and lead a team to glory), but did you know that only 15 out of the previous 53 number one overall picks (starting with 1966, since that’s the first year they dropped territorial picks) have won an NBA title?
Because maybe the Pels are (assuming they want RJ) weighing what would be cheaper, to swap with Memphis and after we take Ja , Memphis takes Darius Garland or if our price is cheaper? Maybe the Grizz think Garland plus a Laker pick is worth more than Ja???
Intrigue abounds…..
Five words for you Brian:
Olowokandi
Brown
Bargnani
Bennett
Fultz
I’ve been under a tremendous amount of stress waiting for the results of a 5 year follow up brain MRI. Thank God it came back clean. Today is off to good start!
great to hear strat
That’s just five dudes, though, right? It’s still surprising to learn that over 2/3 of the #1 picks have never won a title.
I’m glad you’re healthy Strat. Brain injuries are horrible.
Others have mentioned the extremely low possibilities that an NBA team will lose money. I’d just add in that the profit sharing makes it mostly impossible. But this is precisely what I’m talking about. You’re trying to explain venture capitalism basics while I’m saying those basic ideas are a fundamentally insane accounting of value and risk. I recognize this may not be an immediately popular view.
Kinda disappointed no one took my draft fixing suggestion as seriously as my critique of investor driven capitalism. I mean, hooray for the lively discussion but still.
I think that that is the more generous interpretation of their actions and I hope it is correct. However, I think a similar possibility is that they don’t want to give up cap space so that they can afford the Julius Randles of the world. However, that is just a less generous interpretation of their actions. We won’t know for sure what their plan is until next week (but yes, I do agree that their refusal to trade their cap space for assets suggest that they plan on using their cap space this year on players).
The worst thing you can do as a GM is to try and please any contingency at the moment. The best thing you can do, almost always, is to trade for future considerations that have a higher value than what’s happening in the present, because you are pillaging the’s hopes and dreams that GMs are selling to their fans, bosses, and even themselves.
Griffin, for instance: There’s no way in hell they’ll be competitive next year. Why are they even trying for that? As good as Zion is, he’s still just a rookie. Trading for someone like Bradley Beal is a sunk cost in terms of youth. He should be stockpiling future draft assets and drafting the best players. The same goes for the Mavs. They will not make the playoffs. The West is really, really tough. Sacramento is a semi-deep, fairly legit team, for chrissake!
These are the teams we should prey on; we shouldn’t act like one.
Glad you’re clear, Strat!
Trying to figure out how many of those 15 I can name without looking it up:
LeBron
Magic
Hakeem
Kyrie
Bogut (a weird case where he was a supporting player on a champ, and not even his original team)
Kareem
Bill Walton
Shaq
Robinson
Duncan
That’s as far as I got without my friend Google. Curious how many others can name without looking it up. Lotta big men, unsurprisingly.
so now the knicks called in coby white (kinda like him, but not at 3!) at the last minute. doubt this is a smokescreen. either they are seriously thinking about trading down or they think they might have a chance to trade into the lottery some other way.
It’s a bit weird but it’s the unsurprising effect of the draft being a crapshoot and of the fact that there are teams that dominate half-decades.
Tell me why this is bad, distract me from our impending doom.
Plenty of details to be hashed out later.
It looks like they’re seriously considering whatever offers they get thrown at them to pick a point guard from pick #4 on. Imagine getting #4 and Hart for #3, then flipping #4 for #8 and #10 and grabbing Marvin Williams to get #12.
I am not liking this rumor of KD signing a 5 year max deal with the Warriors and then trading him to the Knicks in the offseason.
I somehow doubt that the Warriors would be so interested in trading him if he looks good in rehab – why would they do that?
I also don’t like the idea of sending assets to GS to get someone on a more expensive contract that takes him to age 35 after a major injury — instead of a 4 year less expensive contract that costs nothing but cap space.
If I’m Perry and KD/GS comes to me with this, I say ok go ahead but no guarantees we are going to do anything. And by the way Joe Lacob, good luck with your $200MM tax bill in 2019-20 for a team that might not make the playoffs, and your estimated $1.6 billion dollars in tax + salaries over the next 4 years.
Actually that would be a very interesting scenario – because if GS is literally going to pay nearly $200MM in tax, other teams will be HIGHLY motivated to get out of the tax to get some of that tax money distribution. Which would make our cap space even more valuable.
Strat, congratulations, that’s great to hear.
On another subject, I’ve been trying to imagine who will be the real contenders in the West next year I have to put Utah and Denver near the top of the list. I guess Houston too, but they have such turmoil and an owner who wants to save money that I don’t know if they’re for real next year. If Dallas signs Horford they have a good team too. The Lakers don’t have a full team yet and the dubs are really hurting. So who else?
i really hate these last minute workouts….. what the hell were they doing this whole time? were they not prepared to look at these prospects?
i love coby white… but the whole way they are going about it is almost as comical as basing it on a 3on3 workout….
What the f*ck Golden State acquired the #41 pick for basically cash
WHY IN THE HELL ARE WE IDLY SITTING ON DOLAN’S MONEY ONLY TO BURN IT ON FRENCH CENTERS THAT GET LIT
I’m pretty upset we haven’t snagged any of the second rounders teams are selling, and about the fact that we haven’t been involved in any of the salary dump rumors. If the cap space isn’t used productively later on, that will just about tell me all I need to know about Perry/Mills.
I’m glad we’re doing due diligence with Garland and White since it sounds like there could be a lot of movement, a little odd to be doing it now though. Winding up with one of them and, say, Clarke would be a great outcome.
You’re missing a rare Knick who won a title! 🙂
I think the idea of just giving teams some small flat amount they can spend on rookies is the right one. Every team gets like a 5-10M yearly “rookie exception” (every team the same amount) that they can spend as they see fit. This way it removes any incentive to tank. You could make it tradeable as well to preserve the idea of trading future value for current in some form (baseball’s international signings works pretty similiar to this). And then beyond that teams could sign rookies into their space like they would any other players. If some team wanted to give Zion the max (and I bet someone would) and has the cap space that seems good for all parties involved.
I think there’s a perception that this would lead to all the players wanting to play in LA but I really don’t buy it. Most players follow the money in free agency and that incentive would be even stronger for guys with 0 career earnings. You’d have to think about how much control you’re giving teams though. What length of contracts could they offer rookies? Would there still be restricted free agency at the end of your rookie deal? If you don’t give the team some amount of control of prime years the incentive to develop young players declines pretty dramatically.
I would be happy if we:
Take R.J. at 3
Get Marvin Williams and with the 12th pick take Clarke or Bitadze
Sign KD, so while we suffer through another brutal season we’d know that we at least have him coming, similar to Carl in Caddyshack counting on the eternal consciousness the Dahli Lama promised him, which would be nice.
I like the idea of stockpiling assets, but this is a thin draft and RJ Barrett clearly has some value based on his reputation alone. I’d stick with RJ rather than the Cam Reddish-Coby White-whatever late lottery guy pupu platter you’d get from trading him.
I think there would be very little chance we’d end up with the Brandon Clarke, Nickell Alexander-Walker combination we’re all envisioning.
This could be a so many prospects, so little time situation. We probably don’t have reports on every single player the Knicks worked out and we know they at least appear to perform due diligence. They might just be working down to the wire. I hope.
Well, at least there are no reports of one of these recent workouts involving a player really impressing in a 3 on 3 scrimmage…
Kind of fun reading about all the angst and chaos going on with the Lakers and Celtics.
I don’t think a relatively small money advantage such as currently exists would be as distorting in tanking terms as the current situation is. I’m okay with the RFA situation as well. The idea isn’t to upend the CBA, it’s just adjusting the front end.
Agreed. Not everybody wants to live in LA anyway. With market size having less of an impact on endorsement earnings these days I think it’d be fine. Team quality and available money would matter more.
Take Barrett and hope for the best. He has some obvious skill, he’s young, and has a chance to be good, I don’t trust the Knicks braintrust to trade down and come out ahead.
That they aren’t getting in on acquiring 2nd rounders or looking into renting out the cap space for assets is not a good sign. Oh yeah, the dream of landing the big free agents that always scorn NY is alive and well…
I mean, it’s been a month since the lottery, no?
Grocer, you’d be giving the big markets an advantage because of sponsorships. I bet Zion can make a lot more in NY then in NO, even with the large difference between #1 and #3 money.
It sure seems like the Knicks can get another pick if they want. All kinds of reports of teams with too many picks or looking to save some $ by packaging a pick with an unwanted player. Atlanta, Boston, Philly, OKC, maybe Miami…
At the margins, maybe. Local sponsor gigs are probably a little more money in NYC or LA but the ones that matter are national and global. It’s not like being in small market Cleveland kept Kyrie from making Uncle Drew.
Somebody please strap Stephen A Smith to a rocket then launch the rocket into the sun
I should add NOLA is the smallest market in the NBA and is probably too small to sustain a team anyway. The current system is propping them up. There’s no reason to suspect they’ll have any more success with Zion than they had with Davis or Paul. A system that incentivizes a sell or move of the Pelicans is a feature, not a bug.
@87 ok but that’s a whole new discussion, because the current paradigm is to keep the small markets competitive.
Yeah, we should be definitely buying seconds as Golden State is doing, but at least we do have the Charlotte seconds for the next couple of years. Reports have been made that the Knicks rejected Atlanta’s offer, so it’s Barrett for sure.
I’m fine with this outcome. I would love to get the 12th too specially if Clarke is on board, but I don’t expect Perry and Mills to move much. They’re still going to want to keep 2 max slots for free agency to see how it goes.
I think the extra workouts are in case they trade for an extra pick or in case Barrett is taken at #2. I don’t feel like the Knicks will move down from their spot on their own; they will merely react to an unexpected pick at #2 or if they make a trade for a lower draft pick.
>or they think they might have a chance to trade into the lottery some other way.<
Wouldn't Frank plus one or both of the Dallas picks put us in a decent position to get into the lottery somewhere?
I guess I'm less enthusiastic about the Dallas picks than the consensus here because I think Cuban is going to fill out the rest of that team and become a playoff contender by next year (if not this year). I don't mind cashing them in now if there's a player available the team wants and a deal to be had.
lmao
That last rant about patience was hysterical. The man is a clown.
i thought the reason we haven’t been in on any of these pre-draft trades is to ensure we have the max cap space available for June 30/July 1…
It’s not obvious to me that this scheme would undermine small markets. My point about NOLA is that it’s so much smaller than the other small markets that it may not be viable as a sustainable team absent constant propping up by the rest of the league. Memphis is the second biggest and does much better.
The current draft distributes stars around the league but has been pretty bad at generating parity and lifting up small market teams. The successes are a result of good management more than anything else. Bad teams need to work smarter, this scheme incentivizes that while still giving those bad teams a small boost.
Of course hoping they “rejected” it in order to get more assets than 8 + 10….. as any negotiator worth their salt would do….
Wait a minute, the Warriors bought a 2nd round pick?
I thought that was close to impossible now.
They have a lot of holes to fill.
But that’s only an issue if they are in the mix for the top guys. They have to know by now if they’re in the mix, right? So yes, if they’re not renting out the cap space because they know KD and Irving are signing here (or Kawhi and Irving) then fair enough. But otherwise…it’s kind of discouraging.
My understanding of the CBA is that first round picks count against the cap before they are signed, but second round picks do not. So buying second rounders wouldn’t impact any kind of free agency plan.
Cuban’s last big “make the playoffs” move was to give Harrison Barnes the max. I don’t think Cuban’s necessarily a guy who can clearly put together a great team at the drop of a hat.
i have a really hard time listening to that dude speak…annoying is an understatement…max is only slightly better, although his intense hatred of dolan can be amusing on occasion…
makes it worse that they’re knick fans…
i like molly though – ol’ jalen definitely stepped up in the world…i could listen (and watch) sage read the phone book all day long 🙂
i meant acquiring any picks by taking on player salaries…
hell yeah we should be using handfuls of dolan’s sweaty cash to buy as many picks as possible…
They don’t involve cap holds like first rounders do, correct. However, you sometimes do have to have some cap room open to sign some of the second round picks for more than the minimum. That’s typically not a big issue, though, as the teams have tremendous leverage (see Mitchell Robinson’s contract, for instance).
There is no law that I am aware of that says the Knicks can’t absorb bad contract and the player taken at #12 into their empty cap space on 7/10 should they strike out of free agency if Jordan wants to avoid paying and reaping some of the tax that GS is going to pay if they resign everybody….
Isn’t there a limit of like 3M every other year a team can give in cash for an asset???
No law, true, but general history has shown that teams invariably clear out the cap space before they sign the guy. In other words, cap for assets deals almost always occur early in the free agent process. If Team A isn’t ready at that time, then Team B will just go to Teams C, D, etc. for the deal.
I haven’t been a fan of much of what he’s done since winning the title. In fact, I’d say he’s been bad. But he’s positioned really well right now. I think he knows he needs a 3 & D PG because Doncic will handle the ball and he and Hardaway are lacking on defense. He also needs a bruiser inside because KP is not that guy and I don’t think they want him to be. Two of the names being mentioned are Beverly and Horford. That wouldn’t be a bad way to go into next year if they can get 1 of the 2 or both.
I don’t think there’s any way KD gets traded to the Knicks. He’s shown himself to be a team first guy and, unlike Melo, I think, would care that his new team had all their assets going forward. I don’t think getting every extra dollar is the bottom line for him.
As a franchise that’s a bridge too far. I’m willing to give him the max, despite the achilles, and have that be plan A. If it costs more than that I move on to a, hopefully solid, plan B.
Plan A: RJ + KD + Kyrie
Plan A1: Substitute max player for Kyrie (Kemba?)
Plan A2: Substitute tankathon 19-20 for Kyrie
Plan B: RJ + (-KD) + Tankathon 19-20 + Lotto pick summer 2020 + Max FA(s) TBD
sorry bob, i’m kind of on the low end of the spectrum when it comes to really understanding any of this shit…i just like talking to you all 🙂
i was only trying to say that the reason we aren’t currently wheeling and dealing in a fashion that would involve us taking on another team’s player’s salary is we want to still have the opportunity to sign two max players come june 30/july 1…
hell, i’m still trying to digest the whole labor versus industrialist/capitalist thing…surprisingly i’m leaning towards those that create opportunity for others – and, then i think of all those “sweat shops” around the world doing despicable stuff to children and others…
as far as the nba – i’d probably still favor a draft…i just think for the overall health of the league you have to try to look out for the pelicans and grizzlies of the world…
In the case of Charlotte they are supposedly looking to move the 12 with a bad contract not to sign someone else but for financial reasons so I don’t see why the timing makes a significant difference. True, you are then “stuck” with Jordan’s choice (or maybe there is a synthesis of what the Knicks might want and what Charlotte might want if they don’t trade with the Knicks)
There is, indeed, a money limit. It was placed there actually because of Dolan back in his early days as the Knicks owner.
Maxing a post-Achiles tear Durant is Knicksy. Real, real Knicksy. That’s all I gotta say about it.
@108 howdy danvt…not to get too personal, and, i totally understand if it’s something you don’t wish to share or respond to – but:
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OddballUniqueCamel-size_restricted.gif
is there a particular genre of music that you play most often, and, which instrument is it that you play?
sorry, but, it’s your very professional looking avatar pic (and, my internal need to categorize people) that’s got me curious 🙂
If the Hornets make their own pick at #12 you can guarantee it will be somebody useless.
I am too lazy to look the cash thing up but I agree the primary reason they haven’t done anything as far as sucking up mid first round picks is precisely they feel they might make major FA signings whether well advised or poorly advised 🙂
Isn’t there a limit of like 3M every other year a team can give in cash for an asset???
$5.2m limit this year. Resets to $5.6m July 1.
If the Hornets make their own pick at #12 you can guarantee it will be somebody useless.
charlotte and romeo langford were meant to be. sorry djphan i know you like romeo.
Congrats, strat, by the way, on the medical news!
Also, I forgot to congrats z-man on his speech today. Hopefully it goes well!
I still love that the Hornets turned down four first round picks for the pick that they then used on Frank fucking Kaminsky.
hyper posting: i get why people are kind sour on the 4-10 range, but this really doesn’t seem like a bad draft on average in the first round. there are a lot of guys who i’d be pretty happy to get with a mid first and the huge risks like jontay and bol bol are genuinely interesting lottery tickets.
You need an intervention…. please read the Optimist’s Creed every day:
The Optimist’s Creed
Promise Yourself…
To be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind.
To talk health, happiness, and prosperity to every person you meet.
To make all your friends feel that there is something in them.
To look at the sunny side of everything and make your optimism come true.
To think only of the best, to work only for the best, and to expect only the best.
To be just as enthusiastic about the success of others as you are about your own.
To forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future.
To wear a cheerful countenance at all times and give every living creature you meet a smile.
To give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others.
To be too large for worry, too noble for anger, too strong for fear, and too happy to permit the presence of trouble.
To think well of yourself and to proclaim this fact to the world, not in loud words, but in great deeds.
Jaxson Hayes seems kind of similar to our very own Mitchell Robinson.
I’m a Knicks fan. The Optimist’s Creed can go eat a bag of dicks.
Say what you will about Perry, but at least he doesn’t pull this kind of amateur shit:
lol
@113
https://danseiden1.bandcamp.com/releases
“Hey, we need somebody to do the salary cap math… who would be good at that?”
“Get Rambis on it. He wears glasses, he seems pretty smart”
https://i.giphy.com/media/xtqmnfnCkn1TNTtXzQ/giphy.webp
yeah, that’d be just fucking creepy…
Bag of Dicks projects in the late 2nd round.
YOU FREAKING ROCK DAN – literally…thanks for making my day, i am most definitely smiling now, and will be listening at work today…
Wait, huh? If it was a screw-up, why would it be at the Lakers’ behest?
This blog is the place to be today!
So, JK, you don’t think KD can recover sufficiently? I think it’s good even if it doesn’t work out perfect. With RJ too. They’ll have a long window to prove the doubters right wrong but in the meantime, having KD/RJ in hand makes us a destination. I know that was the narrative with Amar’e but KD, I think, has way more gravitas, and a better playing future now than Stat did at the time. Though, of course I’m no MD and never rehabed an achilles…
Thanks Geo
I just think there’s both a very good chance KD is significantly diminished, and also that he’s a bad risk for re-injury. He was heading into his decline phase before the injury. He has those long spindly legs… I dunno, I just don’t really like the odds of him outperforming a megamax contract, which is what you’re looking for when you sign a mega-star.
The one thing that makes me somewhat optimistic is that KD’s game is based much more on skill than explosiveness. He has lots of ways to get easy buckets and he’s a high-IQ player. So in general, he seems like the kind of player that should age well. But with the Achilles injury, the risk just looks like too much for me.
I’ve also been trying to talk myself into RJ Barrett, and I do think staying put and selecting him at #3 is fine. If he gets his shot together he should be a fairly well-rounded offensive player. The low steal and block numbers don’t inspire a lot of confidence but he does seem to be a good “intangibles” guy and that stuff matters a little bit. I won’t hate that pick if he’s the guy at #3. I don’t think he’s going to be a useless NBA player. He’ll probably be a starter in the NBA for many years and he plays a position at which we are absolutely barren.
I think it’s fine we’re ‘sitting out’ rumours about absorbing contracts for picks right now. First A they aren’t rumours as such. ‘If Charlotte needs to avoid the tax they may look to move 12’ doesn’t amount to much. It totally depends how many salaries they’re insisting on attaching. Ditto OKC – if it’s 3 years of Adams the 21 (in a weak draft) isn’t enough.
There’s a non-zero chance we could use our space on real actual good players – KD is a massive risk but what if Kawhi gave us a look? Bad contracts will still be there in July and I’m just as happy pivoting and taking picks in 2020 – thought to be a much better draft – for the sake of holding open the possibility of adding a true top tier player.
Meanwhile so far we’ve turned down CP3 and turned down throwing every asset we own at AD. We’ve got the third pick in what is widely considered a three pick draft and are making it clear we’ll pick there unless someone blows us away, but we’ve worked out or met most of the top -10 picks in case someone comes along and does just that.
This looks to me like solid competent management. Could we screw it up? Of course!! (Cam reddish). But so far we’ve been at least base level competent.
This is a visual image I will never successfully purge from my mind…. I don’t know when I’ve ever laughed so hard (no pun intended)
@133
I pretty much agree with all you said.
I have two friends who were pretty good local tennis players but suffered Achilles tears. Both have returned and played for quite a few years now, but both suffered a permanent, noticeable drop off in their play. I’m not sure why b/c both have been fully healthy since. One guy in early 30’s, the other in late 40’s (but a doubles guy, so mobility not so huge an issue).
KD plays in an elite pro league, and one wonders how much he’ll lose.
Bag of Dicks: A Knicks fan in the Dolan Era
We have the title. Silverman, get working wherever you are….
In the NFL trading down for more picks is almost always the answer unless you have a shot at a very good QB. In the NBA it’s probably not in the high lottery, but in a weak draft like this I think we should be trying hard to get more picks, especially since, you know, we have one good basketball player on our team.
Berman says Frank is probably getting traded tonight. 🙂
for the first time ever.. im going to the draft… this was never on some bucket list since i prefer tv/internet coverage but pretty stoked about it since im pretty sure we will get someone that i like… i hope i didnt jinx it…
and yea i do like langford a lot… he should be a solid pro for whoever drafts him…
@133
I’m with you on Durant. I’ve already mentally moved on from signing 2 max free agents and hope management has also. Durant is a scratch. I was never really thrilled about Irving. Khawi is very likely to either stay in Toronto or go to the Clippers. I like Kemba, but I saw him as more of a #2 with Durant and not a player to build around. Plus, it seems he’s staying put anyway.
I’m all for taking on contracts for assets as long as the terms are OK.
I’m OK with signing young role players to reasonable short term contracts. They can be used as assets in a trade later.
Finally, I’d be fine with trading the Dallas picks to get another lottery pick this year and accelerate the rebuild.
This delayed sign and trade for Durant that Windhorst is hawking (stalking horse for) is the single dumbest move I’ve ever hear of. The Knicks get the pleasure of paying in assets and much more money for the 36 yr old season of a guy with a torn tendon. Brilliant…. nobody tell Dolan please!!!
I’m squarely against R.J. at this point (a guy who led the NCAA in charges is either too slow or isn’t learning a lot) and in the Garland camp, although I’m not sure what that would mean for DSJ.
I think what it’s saying is that the Lakers origianlly were the ones who requested it be completed on 7/6 (I can only assume because Pelinka was itching to get feted at the press conference), then realized they messed it up and tried to see if they could change it. It’s not like this was a point they were haggling over in the initial negotiations (as it clearly should have been). Truly hilarious stuff. Lebron and Davis is an impressive 1-2 bunch but I’d wager *heavily* against them winning big in the next few years. There’s still a lot of difficult team building to be done there and Pelinka seems like a fucking dunce.
@144
What’s just as idiotic is that some people on twitter are trying to defend it.
Durant re-signing with the warriors and getting traded to us next season is literally the Melo scenario. That one really can’t happen. If we’re going for Durant at all it has to be as a free agent, no assets lost in the process.
I’ve seen repeated references to the spacing problems at Duke and why that held him back and could help a lot at the NBA level, but you are right. If there’s no space, stop driving right into people.
maybe kevin can teach RJ some of his smooth moves to the basket…
stay healthy strat…
Hmm, draft day used to be a week later in June. I wouldn’t have even known it was today if I didn’t get a spam email from Adam Silver thanking me for being a fan and reminding me the draft was tonight,
Good luck to the knicks tonight. Highest pick we’ve had since we drafted LaMarcus Aldridge, woohoo.
Though it kind of sucks to be #3 in a 2 player draft, who knows how it’ll end up. Jordan and Harden were both #3 picks. And Harden was behind two “can’t miss” prospects in 2009 because of questions about his athleticism, haha.
I do love the draft, anything can happen. (As long as you keep your picks:)
@123: Comment of the Year. I just howled at my desk here.
You, sir, deserve a drink for that one.
(Aren’t you in LA like I am? I could use a chat with a NY ex-pat/transplant).
@ 86 Somebody please strap Stephen A Smith to a rocket then launch the rocket into the sun
I support this message wholeheartedly
Either walk away or sign KD as a free agent but DO NOT Trade For Him – have we learned nothing from the Melo disaster
Zion aside, from a historical standpoint I kind of like our chances at #3:
Somewhere Georges Santayana is smiling…..
@152
I am in LA. I seem to remember we have a lot in common— aren’t you a ‘Cuse grad as well?
Let’s get a beer sometime! Real life KB!
Begley:
So KD is gonna do a solid for his old team and force the Knicks to give up assets to get him. And then join a team with no players.
Yeah, that makes sense.
@155 Yup yup – Masters in ’04; started in the summer of ’03, after Melo brought ’em to the national title.
That sign and trade for Durant idea is like the culmination of all things Knicksy. Giving him a max contract as a free agent would be a questionable enough decision, so TRADING for him on an even bigger max contract would be almost peak Knicks.
I really like this idea in theory Grocer. The one large obstacle is controlling for the desirability of large markets (assuming that parity is a goal, which it currently is in the NBA). You think it’s small potatoes, but I’m betting not based on LeBron/KD/Kawhi/Kyrie/AD/Butler/etc basically all the major free agents wanting to go to NY or LA.
Some big questions:
1. How steep do you set the salary curve for balance?
2. There’s often only one big star every other year or so (Zion, Griffin, Kyrie, AD, etc). Unless you make the salary curve pretty steep for how much the worst teams can offer draft prospects this guy will likely always sign with the highest available big market (if they care primarily about money). That means smaller markets like NO, Portland, and Memphis have essentially no way to ever get a homegrown star. How do you combat this?
3. There’s a realistic chance teams like the Knicks/Lakers could get two top guys if they’re really bad. We had the worst record; so say we get $10M in rookie money, 2nd worst gets $8.5M, 3rd worst gets $8M, etc. It’s fairly realistic that Zion/Morant or Zion/Barrett sign together for $5M each on the Knicks. They’d be giving up $3-5M a year, or $12M-$20M for four years. But I think the marketing $ in NY over Memphis could easily cover that gap. Are you okay with that outcome?
4. It will be really hard to have a curve in the second half of the draft that matters. If the 20th pick team gets $2M and 30th pick team gets $1.4M, maybe the dynasties get better players than the mid level teams. Is that okay for balance?
Player: I would like to come play for you. I hope that’s clear and I hope you appreciate what that could mean for you. I know I’m badly injured and may never fully recover. But I think we can both agree that I’m worth almost any sacrifice you can make, because, let’s face it, until recently I was truly great and you’re desperate and famously inept. So I want a guarantee of making an extra $57m when I come play for you. How do we make that happen? Easy. See that one tiny pool of fresh water and one baby palm tree left in your windswept talent desert? We’re just going to have those excavated and moved to the verdant garden of my old team. Then I’ll agree to come begin my extended rehab with you and hope that I eventually return to at least an occasional facsimile of my former self.
Team: Thanks!
Mitch, Barrett and all our future firsts for four seasons of past-prime Kevin Durant. Sounds perfectly Knicksy.
Wonder whether the reports of a Frank trade are just contingent on who is on the board at the spot that has been agreed on. Knicks have been all over Shamorie Ponds, who I would very much like seeing in MSG.
Wonder whether Charles Matthews might still be available at #55 after his ACL tear.
Of course it does. Durant gets ~$40M more guaranteed with a 5 year contract. He’d probably love the idea.
I really think they might regret this trade, contrary to all those calling it a win-win. They better win like THIS YEAR, and they don’t yet have the surrounding players to do it. They aren’t adding any good young talent for the next 7 years.
That means I’m reduced to hoping that the rest of the league hates him so much they want a 2nd rounder to take take him and we say “no”. lol
The Knicks are going to trade Frank, bring back Mudiay and Hezonja, play them with Randle and Trier, and talk about how they are focusing on defense.
I love how now Garland is becoming such a hot commodity when he only played 5 games in college due to injury. He shot amazing and I’m sure looks incredible shooting in workouts but he had more turnovers than assists in those 5 games. It’s almost as if Barrett is getting penalized for playing games and exposing some of his flaws where as Garland may be benefiting from not having played many games in college.
Both were highly rated coming out of high school so not saying Garland is a scrub, far from it. But now you have people here who have never seen Garland play but have seen Barrett play alot wanting Garland ahead of Barrett. I’m not on either bandwagon but it’s just interesting how opinions on draft prospects can be influenced.
Frank Ntilikina being so bad we can’t get a single second rounder for him two years after drafting him eighth overall feels almost unprecedented
man, i was just looking at some updated mocks and saw grant williams had fallen from 27-45. i get it, he’s exactly the type to fall. he’s an upperclassman, he’s not at all explosive or fast or long; he’s a tweener with a kinda clarence weatherspoon like game that barely worked then and doesn’t exist in the modern nba.
but i think this would a really nice pick up that low, an incredible value if he dropped that much. this guy held his own in a win against an an nba ready gonzaga front court and looked like the eye of the storm in that ncaa purdue game. to me, he looks like a smart two-way player who can switch on D, rebound, pass, is nba strong and has a decent chance of being an passable 3pt shooter. just doesn’t seem like a 27-45 guy.
@169
Specially since we traded a second rounder ourselves for a failed 7th pick, Mudiay, in his 3rd year.
if we come away with rj and ponds this thing could turn around fairly quickly even without FAs…..
@166: Laker fans – ever the optimists – don’t seem overly worried. I spoke to one yesterday: he likes bringing back Rondo, McGee and Chandler off the bench. I told him they still need shooters, and they need to get rid of jokers such as Lance Stevenson and Beasley.
Danvt, I really enjoyed the track. Thanks for posting it.
@170
Grant Williams would do amazing with Mitch in the frontcourt who basically covers up his athletic deficiencies while benefiting from his extremely high basketball iq. He’s one of my favorite players this draft and really should be a lotto guy.
@170
Down here in Vol country, I’m hoping Grant still gets taken in the first round. If not, I sure hope the Knicks get him in the 2nd.
Hmm. Bulls to sign Brogdon to 4/$80m offer?
174 wow grazi
I just don’t understand how RJ Barrett is viewed as some deeply flawed prospect that we shouldn’t be excited about. RJ Barrett has prototypical size for a wing and he produced well enough as an 18 year old to be a Consensus All American. I think the only guys who scored more points than him as a freshman were Durant, Beasley, and Trae Young? He rebounds and passes well for the position, he finishes well at the rim, and he wasn’t an efficiency disaster despite crashing into loaded frontcourts nightly.
Zion Williamson was transcendent at Duke, but RJ Barrett did not underwhelm by any means. I think people are blaming RJ for not being Zion and for Cam Reddish’ inability to hold his own weight. Zion outperformed expectations, Cam Reddish severely underwhelmed, and RJ Barrett was around what he should have been. I’m pumped we’re going to be able to build around him and Mitch moving forward. If literally anyone of Knox, Smith Jr, Trier, or Ntilikina surprise we’re looking at a pretty good group of young guys going forward.
Williams would be an amazing get but I have to think he’s going at least in the first round (I personally have him 13th)
Danvt,
great job! I loved your old style music, it soothes the soul with such feather-like grace 🙂
Pistons take on Snell’s contract, get first round pick (30th) from Milwaukee.
@181 Wow, if there were only such love for my basketball posts 😉 though regrettably they’re pedestrian at best and I’ve always known on which side my bread is buttered.
Means a lot Farfa. Much respect for your recaps.
How’d Kobe do post achilles?
Let us all bow our heads in memory of the pick (#31 overall) that Phil Jackson gave away so he could add the Wear Bear to the roster without it costing James Dolan a few bucks.
RIP, little draft pick.
damn dan…that’s some really good stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr0v8i2y9tA
still learning the lyrics to “also ran”, but, was definitely feeling a strong compulsion to sing along my first time through it – all i could was hum 🙂
also really liked pseudonynm a whole lot…
shit, you got me feeling almost famous here…
oh yeah, just for the record – i was wrong, had you pegged for jazz and the sax…
It would be so fitting if we trade Frank Ntilikina for the 31st pick in the draft.
It won’t be the 31st. Nets have it now, and they’re trying to keep two max slots open. Frank messes with that.
Yeah I think the window is pretty hard to navigate for the Lakers. You saw it with the big 3 in Miami that it can take a couple years to really put decent surrounding pieces in place. Their supporting cast was so much better when they peaked in that 3rd season than in year 1. But by year 3 of this combo Lebron is going to be in his age 37 season. Unless Pelinka pulls some rabbits out of his hat the surrounding talent is going to be largely pitiful this year. Over a couple years of mid-levels, using or trading what meager picks they have left, etc. they should just about be able to get to a decent level of surrounding talent but all the while Lebron’s prime is ticking away. I think it’s a very tight squeeze.
He wasn’t very good at 36 and 37…. but most aren’t.
Rudy gay is a better comp…. he tore his Achillies in 2017 at the age of 30 and returned 8 months later and his 31 and 32 year old seasons are as good or better than any he ever had…..
I’m hoping the Frankophiles will still be relevant after today.
Small sample size, but despite having the highest scoring average in the EYBL, R.J. also had the lowest fg% of all 2019 draft prospects except… *drum roll*… Cam Reddish.
Idk why these guys were ranked so high (or conversely, if they shot more bad shots BECAUSE they were ranked so high), but I think RJ raises some serious “chucker” concerns. No one wants another J.R. Smith back in the fold.
That being said, I think R.J. has improved enough to where he did have a “pretty good” season, even knocking on the door of a “great” season. But he has a lot of improvements to make.
And w/r/t Garland, I think it’s an argument for having one great skill (shooting) versus a “jack of all trades, master of none” profile like R.J.’s.
The Lakers have a multi year window with AD and Lebron. Then Lebron comes off the books and they can rebuild with free agents around AD who will still be in his prime. You don’t have to rebuild via draft as long as you manage your cap space well and don’t overpay. In fact, if you have AD in his prime, you don’t want to rebuild via draft.
Every time I’m reminded of the Travis Wear pick I get so annoyed.
At least after this draft and when Noah’s contract finally runs out we’ll be finally free from the stupidity of Phil Jackson.
I mean, RJ is a chucker. There’s not really any denying that.
This team desperately needs defenders. Even though I’m on board with Barrett, he’s not a defender.
I’m praying they aren’t dumb enough to trade away Frank at 20 years old. It’s way too soon to give up for a shit 2nd rounder.
Mitch is a great shock blocker and will eventually be a defensive force, but he’s not strong enough or knowledgeable enough yet. The very best teams will eat him alive until he gets more experience.
The Knicks are going to be terrible on defense again unless they keep guys like Frank, Vonleh, and Dotson and add to them.
Both Shams and Stein reporting that the top 3 picks are already locked in, and they’re chalk: Zion at 1, Ja at 2, RJ at 3. Insist trades won’t happen before 4th pick.
Per Woj, Pacers are getting TJ Warren and the #32 pick from Phoenix to help them unload salary.
@197
This whole Durant delayed sign and trade thing is some monkey’s paw shit.
I’ll believe that absurd Durant delayed sign and trade only when I see the Knicks have 40mln in cap space come 2020. It still won’t make sense, but until then it’s just utterly bonkers.
I’m with you, but I think we’re alone.
I’d like to at least see how he performs with two primary ball handlers like smith and RJ before throwing him away.
Good picks are being sold left and right for nothing but money. Just buy one and let’s wait til he’s 21 before giving up on him.
My final big board:
1. Zion
2. Morant
3. Barrett
4. Culver
5. Clarke
6. White
7. Bitadze
8. Garland
9. Bol
10. Hayes
11. Hunter
12. Langford
13. Ponds
14. G. Williams
Honorable Mention: Kevin Porter Jr., Matisse Thybulle, Chuma Okeke, Bruno Fernand0
@162
1: Maybe you set the curve higher than it is, but I don’t think by too much. Mainly because you want to maintain some separation between places in the lower lottery.
2. KP got local deals with a mattress company and a car dealership. National/international show deal and an energy drink. I don’t think in this moment that the disparity between markets is that big – players don’t get a cut of jersey sales directly, correct?
3. 12 to 20 mil is a hell of a lot to give up, but I’m fine with that outcome.
4. I think that’s the biggest issue but also nit terribly important. Making yourself an attractive destination would be super important. Would guys want to sit the bench on a stacked team or buy into being someone on a rebuilding team? Does a dynasty give you 2 years guaranteed and a rebuilder 4? The idea is bad teams get a leg up but everybody still has to compete for players. I’m not sure how important it is to give those mid-level positions a lot of separation.
Atlanta to 4
They took back the Solomon Hill contract and gave up 8, 17, and 35.
Nice deal for the Pels.
@202
I’m with you guys RE keeping not dumping Frank for just a second rounder. I want to keep all the kids under contract…in general I believe in giving young kids 3 full years to see if they develop, unless a team is willing to give a first rounder.
But he might want to be dealt, and the FO still probably plans to sign KD and KI so wants all the cap space they can get.
Will Atlanta now offer the #4 and 10 to the Knicks for the #3?
Definitely if AD can attract the next big star when Lebron leaves that changes the calculus. But I still think it’s going to be tough to build a title team purely through FA, which is what they’re basically trying to do. I mean they have close to zero future assets right now for the duration of Davis’ prime. They won’t have many picks to get young players, nor will they have many resources for trading. It means you can’t get way over the cap quite the same way you can by combining free agents and young players (since the ability to retain drafted players is one of the most powerful vehicles to add salary above the cap) and it obviously means they really need to hit consistently on their signings.
I mean they have ~$25M in space currently (depending on exactly how the trade is finalized) and currently have 3 rotation players on the roster. They still need starters at both guard spots and backups at literally every position. With $25M in space. That’s not an easy problem to solve. They’re going to need Davis and 35 year old Lebron to be very healthy.
so apparently top 4 are all but set with the pels giving up on moving up. atlanta supposedly wants hunter.
@202
Yes.
If he didn’t have so much upside as a defender, I’d be fine with moving on from him. But the Knicks are horrible on defense every year, keep drafting and adding scorers, and then everyone wonders why the defense is terrible and why we always suck. Rebuilding via draft requires patience but we continually prove we don’t have any.
Move on from Mudiay, add Barrett, keep Frank, and let the cards fall where they may between DSJ, Frank, Trier, Dotson, Barrett, and even Allen. Then make a move at the deadline if it’s clearer.
I think Frank and Barrett would be a interesting combination to at least take a look at. They compliment each other nicely and would make for a tall and long backcourt. They can share the ball handling because Barrett is an above average playmaker at the SG spot Frank could take the tougher assignments. RJ could carry the scoring and penetrate more.
Hunter is a good selection for the Hawks.
You guys have to be my eyes and ears tonight. I’ll be in class all night.
@207
I’d take that in a heartbeat. Anyway I guess that makes it clear that the Pels have given up on #2 and that Culver goes at #4. Cleveland probably goes for Reddish (yikes) and Phoenix for Garland. Chicago picks White, the Pels grab Hayes, Washington takes Doumbouya, Atlanta goes for Hunter, Minnesota selects Langford, Charlotte gets Nassir Little, Miami drafts Rui Hachimura and Boston takes Brandon Clarke (welp). Let’s see how many I get wrong.
I’m missing the draft because I’m in my studio doing the most ridiculous thing ever: making library production music that sounds like Starship and Survivor
Hunter at #4 is a massive reach.
If the Pels are still hot on RJ we should squeeze the shit out of Griffin and just keep saying no and see what he comes up with
You never walk alone!
Good stuff Danvt, thanks for sharing your music. Your hoop posts are ok too.
Here’s to hoping you can pen a ballad about the Knicks finally taking home the hardware sometime in our lifetimes.
that saric trade is weird considering that phx just paid to dump warren. i like saric better but he’s in the last year of his deal.
Ha! So Griffin is going after Cam Reddish now. So weird… he really wants to set up a play date down there.
Good trade for Atlanta, they kept the 10th pick and are in a pretty good position to get Culver or Hunter. The Pelicans are going to have so many new faces damn.
Warren seems like an interesting guy for the Pacers and they get the 32nd too for nothing…
I’m torn between trying to sleep (the sensible choice, this week’s lack of sleep has already manifested itself in very mild panic attack symptoms) and staying awake to see Dolan’s Razor in full effect
My jealousy for NO and Atlanta just keeps growing…
I like Saric, but I can’t figure out the Suns strategy. Maybe they’re just a mess or they think they have a legitimate shot at bringing a max guy. One year of Saric does not seem worthy of dropping from the 6th to the 11th.
The Saric trade is even weirder because it takes Phoenix away from the PG tier of the draft and they badly need one.
jk give strat a little “i never stopped loving you” when we swap frank for the 48th
On the flipside we could try to send DSJ to Phoenix for something
The Suns are approaching the draft like an hyper-caffeinated me would react to the usual NBA2K draft day trade proposals
It’s apparent I have a man crush of some sort. I seem to care less about who we draft tonight than keeping Frank. 🙂
The Suns as always.. Like a well energized headless chicken. Doesnt where to go, what to do. No vision. We should maximize and trade Frank to them for assets
They could just like the fit between Saric and Ayton. It worked out pretty okay with Embiid and Towns, I think.
That’s nice for the TWolves, they can get Garland now.
@231
Sure, but it’s been eons since they needed a PG and they were guaranteed to get one between Garland and White at #6. Instead they removed themselves from the PG race to essentially get Saric and #11 for Warren, #6 and #32. WTF
Yeah, the Phoenix trade is a puzzler.
Hey, let’s offer them Frank AND DSJ for the #11 pick! How can they resist?
🙂
Perhaps the Suns have another deal lined up for a more veteran PG.
How about taking Baynes from the Celtics (supposedly they want to move him to open up cap space)?
He’s an expiring, only $5.4m. Would they do that for the #22 pick? Probably not. #51? Kind of expensive for a 2nd rounder.
Wouldn’t it be really exciting if we were getting Zion tonight? )-:
OK, just got home and poured a Laphroaig. Have we fucked anything up yet?
Knicks win draft night! 🙂
Seeing all the moves David Griffin is making it sure would’ve been nice if the Knicks hired him instead of Perry.
That would require getting rid of Mills and his people first. We can dream.
Yeah I know Mills being in charge was the biggest reason Griffin wasn’t hired. Goes back to Dolan for some reason having a hard on for Mills.
If Scott Perry inherited Anthony Davis and had the rights to Zion, I’m confident he could have not fucked it up, too.
I’d also wait and see to make sure Cam Reddish isn’t the main prize of that haul before extolling his virtue.
Dolan is a strange dude. It would not shock me if he has some kind of mild developmental disorder.
Mike Budenholzer might also have been here.
Hoop Central Retweeted
Hoops Provider
@HoopsProvider
Anthony Davis has turned into:
– Lonzo Ball
– Brandon Ingram
– Josh Hart
– No. 8 pick in 19
– No. 17 pick in 19
– No. 35 pick in 19
– L.A.’ 21 pick if top 8
– L.A.’ 22 pick if not
– L.A. swap in 23
– L.A.’ 1st in either 24 or 25
And got rid of Solomon Hill’s contract.
Desperate is as desperate does. Lakers…SMH
Saw a report on Twitter about the Knicks trying to get another 1st rd pick to draft Bol Bol.
It hurts to watch.
according to espn. best fit for new orleans and memphis is rj barret. hmm
Zions the best. So wholesome.
I’m crying now too thinking about the Knicks missing out on Zion 🙁
Zion’s crying for all of us. Sure seems like a good guy.
How can a guy this hyped be so damn likeable? It really hurts that he won’t be a Knick but man, I’m rooting for this guy wherever he is.
Team needs: everything
Damn espn you’re right but you don’t need to say it out loud.
The fact that ESPN added “(Starters and bench)” to our needs really made it sting…
Ja seems pretty ok too. His Dad seems like a nice guy as well.
Team needs: EVERYTHING
That about sums it up, lol.
Welcome to the club RJ….
RJ is not Zion obviously and may not turn out to be a great player but it’s nice to be drafting a player who clearly wants to be in NY and Knick fans are embracing him from the start.
ESPN is FOS.
So depressing watching those fans in New Orleans go crazy for ZIon. That should been us in front of MSG.
But I’m all in for RJ, can’t wait to watch him play.
The Maple Mamba?
Man, this is tough for me…
RJ is clearly really happy (despite the blunted affect he’s got lol) about being in New York, which is nice to see.
Go RJ!
I think RJ and his dad were awesome. It got me.
Wish I didn’t have to cheer on a dook guy, but pretty happy with the pick. Now go get some more selections!
We just got an actual 23/7/4 kid who normally would be graduating HS this month. SH!T, that’s a win!
Welcome to the Knicks RJ. Also keep Frank 🙂
Welcome R.J Barrett! I’m actually excited. The moment with his dad was very sweet.
RJ Barrett might retire the greatest Knick of all time. I’m glad he’s finally a Knick.
And if we land Bol Bol? Wow.
A Mitch Bol RJ frontcourt would be pretty insane if Bol’s foot isn’t totally fucked
Let’s get Shamorie and Bol!
Amped for another 31% 3PT, 67% FT shooter on this team. (But I read that his shot is “improved” so whatever the fuck that means, cool!) Looking forward to the Wigginsesque early extension max and shopping the contract in year 2 with a bundle of future firsts.
Fuck off forever, Adam Silver! Hope the Zion ratings in NOH are nonexistent.
The Honorable Debbie Downer has arrived
Somebody more petty than me please bookmark this post.
I gave RJ’s draft its own thread. http://knickerblogger.net/cbs-sports-2019-nba-draft-new-york-knicks-select-dukes-rj-barrett-with-no-3-overall-pick/
THCJ always a debbie downer 🙂
Fuck Jowles. That is all.
Does RJ bear a striking resemblance to Chauncey Billups?
Is Garland wearing a bathrobe?
If you combined Darius Garland and Collin Sexton, you might have one good player!
Garland was so surprised to be taken so high, he didn’t have a chance to change out of his bathrobe…
I actually want to keep Frank too. He is better than a typical second round pick.
Capt. Wet Blanket in the haus.
Coby White looks like he’s feelin’ it…
did everybody spontaneously combust out there?
listen man, there are plenty of places in the world i don’t really enjoy shipping (cuz, it’s a pain in the ass) – but, it’s what i do to keep the lights on in my home…
make that library production music sound cool…just think, someone, at sometime, is gonna be sitting somewhere and suddenly think to themselves – you know, that’s actually some pretty cool tunes for library production music 🙂
New thread to commemorate this momentous occasion.
Top recruits out of high school:
2010: Harrison Barnes
2011: Anthony Davis
2012: Nerlens Noel
2013: Andrew Wiggins
2014: Emmanuel Mudiay
2015: a Ben Simmons
2016: Josh Jackson
2017: Marvin Bagley
2018: RJ Barret
Looks like its not that indicative of anything come pro time.
I admire you guys that can do that
Love it. And thanks for the charity on the hoops posts. People on this forum are smart and unbiased so I’m very gratified with the reaction today.
Clarke and Bol Bol still out there.