Knicks Morning News (2019.05.07)

Wow. It wasn’t until after midnight that KB switched back to basketball!

I’m not a big Kyrie fan. I know that he’s a hot name out there for the Knicks and is paired with Durant, but I much rather see Kawhi paired with Durant. Both are amazing 2-way players. We have a younger PG in Dennis Smith already on the team and I’m not sold on Kyrie’s head or defense.

And I asked a question that never got an answer. Who do you guys think are the fallbacks at 4 & 5 if we don’t land a top-3 lottery pick?

Also, I have no idea what you saw in Smith that would have him play any sort of role in who comes here next season.

I don’t have anything against DSJ, but he’s not someone that you exactly plan around, ya know?

And I asked a question that never got an answer. Who do you guys think are the fallbacks at 4 & 5 if we don’t land a top-3 lottery pick?

Assuming the top 3 are Zion, RJ, and Ja in some order my next best prospects are Bol Bol and pick a name out of a hat.

I’m ok with DSJ moving forward. I think he’ll be good..not Kyrie level good..but he looks to get his teammates involved alot more than I expected. He’s young. His first season showed promise, then Luka came in for season 2 and threw him off a little. Honestly, I’d rather go with DSJ and Morant at the point than count on Kyrie leading the team out of the doldrums. That said, it would be incredibly stupid to not go after Kyrie if you have a serious chance. Going into next season, I’d rather have Kyrie than KD- but I’m crazy. I just see KD playing alot of the 4 if we don’t land Zion..I’m not too sure how well that will work with him carrying such a heavy load on offense.

Random but Knicks related..
One of my favorite Knicks memories is when we had MWP and we were playing Toronto, and MWP gave “Psycho T” a shove lol. Remember how he was like “who tf?! Imma fuck somebody..oh! H-hey bro how u doin my guy?” when he turned around and saw MWP there? HILARIOUS

So if not Kyrie, then who?

I’m beating a dead horse, so I’ll be brief. But if you dump Frank, Trier, and Lance, you’ve got approximately $37mm available with the cap hold for the #2 pick and 5 empty roster penalties accounted for.

Durant seems to want to move to the ball dominant, primary ball handler role that’s going to unleash the full range of his talents. I think spending $37mm on the likes of DeAndre Jordan, Danny Green, and Paul Millsap (whose option I expect to be declined) will take you a lot further in the next 2 years than a max contract for Kyrie will.

Who do you guys think are the fallbacks at 4 & 5 if we don’t land a top-3 lottery pick?

I touched on it above, but I think we’ll all gravitate towards Garland by the time the draft comes around.

The problem is he didn’t play enough. But his profile fits that of the ideal modern NBA PG.

Clarke is obviously the choice at #4 or #5, IMO. He’s a sure thing next to Mitch.

So I’ll toss this out there, cringing at the potential for ban-hammer (or at least social ostracism).

I just keep landing on the fact that I’d much rather have Kemba than Kyrie. I put their numbers up against each other and there’s no question whatsoever that Kyrie really is better on almost every measure (yes we know that but I had to double-check). But it’s a little bit the difference between fantastic and effing fantastic.

Someone posted that Kyrie has Melo in him, and while that’s not quite right, even without Kyrie’s moronic statements there’s something about his game that annoys the hell out of me. I’m sure they’re both great people, but on the court I always find myself rooting for Kemba and against Kyrie (and that’s even before the Celtics).

Grumpy Kevin and stoic Kemba would be a fun team to cheer for. Grumpy Kevin and annoying Kyrie would be, if I hadn’t drunk the NYK kool-aid a long time ago, a team I’d love to hate.

Which gets to a point about many of the arguments on this blog — some come (with 20 years of PTSD) just wanting a good, fun team they can root for; some want any team that can compete for a ring every year; and some believe success can only be measured by a ring. All completely reasonable positions, but they often lead to different conclusions.

Agreed. Doesn’t the idea of two players who currently can’t shoot 3’s make you wince a little, though?

Not really. I’ve seen the Dubs trot out combos of Looney, Bogut, McGee, Green, Iguodala and Livingston for years now with great success. Granted they have three of the best distance shooters ever to play the game, but Clarke is not the paint-clogger that he’s being cast as. He has an explosive first move inside, so it’s not like he’s a behemoth who’s going to call for the ball with his ass jammed into his defender a la Shaq.

This is a guy tailor-made for transition buckets, cleaning the glass and eating up slow players with athletic post play. I love Mitch but he’s a dunk-and-D guy right now. There’s room for more offense in the paint, and I also am optimistic that he can figure out a corner 3. I love the way he’s completely rebuilt his shot since SJSU.

I posted this awhile back, but look at his shot at SJSU vs. at Gonzaga. I can’t think of a player who changed his jumper form this much and with such an improvement in ye olde eye test–

Before:

https://twitter.com/colezwicker/status/1036793892572549120

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmN6VdOU4AA0jLm.jpg:large

After:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kCT1AMFAtM&t=1m38s

Great ball arc and wrist follow through.

Jalen Rose on Kyrie.

https://thebiglead.com/2019/05/07/jalen-rose-kyrie-irving-teammate/

“He’s done in Boston. His teammates are going to help him pack”.

I more or less agree with what Jalen is saying. Kyrie is a great offensive player, but he’s a bit of a ball stopper at times on a team that plays better with ball and player movement. He’s also not especially good on defense. There’s been evidence for awhile that he doesn’t make the Celtics all that much better.

The more I think about him as player and add injury risk on top of it, the more I think I’d prefer Kemba over Kyrie if we are going to bring in a guard to play with Durant. If Kemba is not the answer either, maybe we need to think in a completely different way about who to add to Durant if he wants to come to NY.

Paul Millsap’s option isn’t going to be declined unless he already has agreed to re-sign with Denver for more years and a lower AAV. Contending teams tend to not hemorrhage key rotation players for no reason.

another plan B is conley if his trade value ends up being very low aside from salary relief. he’s turning 32 and isn’t really a second star, but he still might be better than some alternatives bc it’s only two years of salary risk. and he’s maybe a better fit with a great scorer than someone like kemba and is also easy to root for.

Kyrie has had a pretty miserable series, both by the numbers and perhaps even more so by the eye test.

Naturally, that’s causing some people to forget that this guy has been one of the NBA’s best scorers over the past few seasons and has developed into a pretty damn good playmaker too.

It’s one thing to just admit you don’t like the guy and for that reason you’d rather root for Kemba or Green/Millsap (which isn’t happening) or whoever. I find his personality pretty grating, and haven’t liked some things I’ve seen this series from a body language perspective.

But if we’re concerned with winning the highest number of basketball games possible, the 27 year old coming off his second straight 6+ BPM season is by far the most logical choice. This is so obvious to me that I think the only reason people are entertaining other options is because his personality and performance in the series are, understandably, fresh on everyone’s minds.

I have my reservations about Kyrie too but one thing I keep reminding myself is that Kyrie never wanted to go to Boston in the first place. When he requested out of Cleveland, Boston was not one of the teams he stated that he wanted to go to and The Knicks were. Now you might question him not wanting to go to a good team, but its not all about basketball for these guys, especially all stars who have all ready won a championship. Boston is not everyone’s cup of tea (see what I did there?)

So in some ways the last two seasons have been seasons of exile for him. Maybe he’s thought about staying at times but ultimately its not where he wants to be and The Knicks and NYC possibly are.

So that could make a huge difference as far as his attitude goes. Just a thought.

As far as trading the pick if we land the number one. NO. FUCKING. WAY. Draft Zion. Get KD and Kyrie/Kemba and call it a DAY! AD might make us better in year one and maybe gives us a championship window the first two seasons but drafting Zion means we can be really good right away with KD and Kyrie and then continue to be good with Zion after those guys get old. Plus as they age, Zion can naturally take over.

Personally I would much rather have a 10 year window of being a really good playoff team than a 3 year window of a possible championship, which is still not guaranteed.

I’ve gone over this with you before. You speak on absolute no authority. Your guess would be as good as mine, except your foundation is unsound, so it’s actually not.

If you’re speaking painfully literally, sure, I do not have a source in the Denver Nuggets organization. But I am well-aware of the second thing I said which I’ll reiterate; legitimate contenders are perfectly happy to make what are technically overpayments if it means keeping their core together.

It’s not happening, and that’s a good thing because investing big money in a few 30 somethings would be a demonstrably worse idea than simply signing the 27 year old superstar.

@25

I can’t speak for other people. I agree that Kyrie is a great offensive player. However, the evidence that his on court value to the Celtics is less than his theoretical boxscore contribution has been available and discussed by Celtics fan all year. Some people probably overstate the case by pointing to Boston’s record when he’s out. But over and above that you can see the style change . There’s also evidence from last year in the playoffs.

To me, it has little do to with the last 4 games. The last 4 games are more evidence of what I was already thinking about him. He reduces overall ball movement for that team and when he’s not scoring well he’s not adding much.

When he’s out, the play making doesn’t take a total nosedive. The ball moves more, assists get distributed among more players, and the defense is probably better.

So are they better off with him than without him?

Definitely with him, but he’s not adding superstar value to that team. He’s partially just taking play making usage away from other players and hurting the defense relative to players on the bench unless he’s lighting it up scoring.

@27 – I said “a #1” not THE overall #1. We have 7 #1 picks in the next 5 years. I think we can give one of them (or even 2?) for AD if we then have the ability to sign him.

Yeah. If we get either the #1 or #2 pick I’m not trading. (I think Ja’s a really nice consolation prize).

The Nuggets have another issue. Until Milsap was willing to sign there, they had a difficult time attracting and keeping the top free agents even when they had a good team. That’s why they paid Milsap so much. If they eventually open up a lot more space, do star players flock there to play with Jokic and Murray or are they back to the drawing board with the draft trying to find value later in the 1st round?

I’m not sold we should spend max money on a pg at all – Kyrie or kemba. A lot of the Durant chat is that he wants to handle the ball and initiate the offense more – to show he’s the complete player. If so, a max of will be like smith when doncic turned up, relegated to being a lesser off-ball player. KD seems to want to play with Kyrie but then we know players aren’t always good team builders.

I’d LOVE for the second guy to be Kawhi but I agree that seems unlikely. I’d want to at least consider Middleton. He plays a complementary position to KD as a 2-3 to KDs 3-4. He is a plus defender who can score in a variety of ways. Alongside Mitch, hopefully Zion and KD he’d be part of a formidable 2-way lineup. The max for 28-yr-old Middleton is super-steep but is maybe a better investment than in Kyrie?

This from Kyrie after Game 3 is funny:

“It’s really just about being efficient, especially the rest of this series. From this point on I don’t think you’ll see another 8 for 22 or any missed layups or looking for the refs for calls or anything like that.”

He went 7-22 in game 4 🙂

I’m trying to enjoy this Bucks-Celtics series as much as possible, but the reality is a lot of these problems (Kyrie’s attitude, Giannis’ unstoppable-ness) might be ours soon if we get what we hope for.

Of course, they’d be the best “problems” we’ve had in a very long time.

I posted this awhile back, but look at his shot at SJSU vs. at Gonzaga. I can’t think of a player who changed his jumper form this much and with such an improvement in ye olde eye test–

Before:

https://twitter.com/colezwicker/status/1036793892572549120

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmN6VdOU4AA0jLm.jpg:large

After:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kCT1AMFAtM&t=1m38s

Great ball arc and wrist follow through.

Wow, it’s come a long way since that hideous shot put release. The new shot actually reminds a little of Oak’s. Not very fluid but, like you said nice “ball arc and wrist follow through.”

That’s the thirstiest shit I’ve ever heard, and completely implausible. Like showing a picture of your ex to your first date, being like, “Hey, see? I had a winning culture here.”

Pure Jowles.

Boy do the Warriors have big decisions to make assuming KD leaves. Do the let Klay walk? Do the extend Green in two years? With their complimentary pieces veritable toast (AI, SL) do they want to pay luxury tax for the next 6 years for a 45-50 win team???

Orrrrrr…. do they trade off Steph and Green for 5 or so #1’s and park liabilities for more picks into the cap void and rework the team for a decade plus in 2-3 years? I’d do that in a heartbeat.

A lot of GM’s are going to have their thinking caps on after the draft lottery when things crystallize a bit.

I would think, with their new arena and high-priced suites, they overpay Klay to keep their original core together, then kick the can down the road on the Draymond decision.

There’s zero chance the Warriors grade Steph, but I think there’s a higher than zero chance they let Thompson go. There have been sayings that he will leave unless he’s offered a max, and there’s no reason to put this out there in the media if the Warriors has already told him he’ll be offered a max.

The problem is that they still wouldn’t have a max slot even if both of them leave, unless they can get rid of Iguodala and Livingston as well, which should be much harder. My guess is that the Warriors are throwing money at Klay and trying to keep it going for as long as possible.

The word “until” suggest that Millsap is an agent of change in the FO’s ability to attract and keep FAs.

I understand we’re all shooting from the hip on word choice here and are prone to errors in usage, but my reading of the post as written is not a deliberate misinterpretation. If he meant that Denver was and still are a challenging destination to attract FAs to, I largely agree. But that’s not what I read from that sentence.

Orrrrrr…. do they trade off Steph and Green for 5 or so #1’s and park liabilities for more picks into the cap void and rework the team for a decade plus in 2-3 years? I’d do that in a heartbeat.

In the world of fantasy GMing, this probably makes sense from a value perspective. You could have a totally clean slate and a motherfucking shitton of picks to rebuild from the ground up. I bet 5 firsts would be on the low end if they S&Ted Green and Thompson and also moved Curry. I think Curry alone is worth 3 unprotected firsts right now to a team like the Jazz.

For Bob Myers, it means moving into their privately-financed, $1 billion arena with a 15-win team and exactly zero of their dynasty’s superstars there to raise the banners during opening night. It would be career suicide. Exactly 0% chance of that happening.

Middleton is a somewhat above average player in his prime. He’s a last piece of the puzzle kind of guy you add to take your team from 57 wins to 61 wins. He’s not a bum, but on a max he’d be a serious overpay.

Knicks Wall has a fun interface set up where you get to play GM. Starts with the draft lottery and continues through free agency:

https://theknickswall.com/2019-nba-draft-app/TKWoffseason.html

I ran through it and got the 2nd pick and selected Morant, then tried to add KD and Kawhi and it told me Kawhi signed elsewhere. So pretty realistic.

I see where you’re coming from. But if I said “until I met my wife, I had a hard time attracting women”, it could just mean I was able to attract one woman, not that I had turned myself into a ladies man capable of attracting dozens more.

Are you saying that he’s saying they had to overpay Millsap just to get him to show up?

Yes.

I don’t mean to jump on you. Seems like an honest misunderstanding now that I see where you’re coming from. I’ve just become sensitive to everyone jumping on misreadings. Seems to always be Strat, too.

the best part about the theknickswall.com game is when you try to make kp an offer and it berates you for low self esteem

‘Does anybody think the Celtics fare any better with Kemba instead of Kyrie? Because I don’t.’

Great question. One can also flip it around — does anybody think the Celtics fare any worse with Kemba instead of Kyrie? I honestly have no clue.

As I said, Kyrie’s definitely a better player by most statistical measures. How much better once you weigh all the other factors is the question (god I sound like Strat). For me personally, it feels close enough that the ‘just don’t like him’ factor is enough to push me onto the other side.

Kyrie is two years younger, too. Can we add that to the calculus?

(I think Kyrie is substantially better than Kemba. I’m not willing to budge on that due to a poor playoff series performance.)

Also, this comes on the heels of years of arguments about whether Carmelo and Amar’e were valuable contracts, despite the lack of actual winning production, for providing legitimacy to the Knicks that they previously didn’t have. I have a bit of PTSD from the “players join superstars” angle, as a staunch defender of the argument “players join winning teams that can offer them money, or legendary teams that can offer rings, or players play with LeBron for all of the above.”

I had forgotten about that. Now I have to sweat it out in case Strat does come back and say this is exactly what he meant.

Please, Strat, don’t do me like that.

By the way, I played the Knicks Wall game, drafted Zion and got rejected by all the free agents. You know what? As much as I love me some Durant, that’s probably my preferred outcome this offseason.

Rozier, Smart & Hayward combing to score 7 points on 3-17 shooting got all the Boston fans pointing fingers at Kyrie somehow. I love it.

Kemba:
More durable
Less douchey

Kyrie:
More efficient scorer
Better playmaker
Two years younger

It’s Kyrie age 27-30 versus Kemba age 29-32. Kyrie’s better in the first place, plus you get him closer to his prime for longer.

No brainer.

Let’s not forget that the Warriors were a garbage team for decades before Curry arrived, with only very small feel good moments here and there. They’re not the Lakers or the Celtics that will always find a way to be around, there’s a real chance after Curry is gone that they’re never replicating this sort of success. There is no way they risk it all on a full scale rebuild, specially when they’re leaving their established fan base of decades and moving to a place that has never been a traditional strong place for basketball.

I’ve been slowly disengaging from the Knicks over the last 6 or 7 years. It started out with my no longer being able to spin things like a normal fan in order to believe the team had a chance at relevance at some point. I was still engaged in Knicks talk, but I was mostly into debating why they suck rather than trying to spin their choices as potentially positive.

But if the Knicks sign Kyrie and Durant, it’ll be almost everything I dislike about the NBA all in one package…

* incompetent management rewarded and a major insult to the idea that teams in all markets are on equal footing

* horribly unlikeable players, especially Kyrie. The dude still acts like an infant, and it’s even more offensive since he’s clearly a smart guy. The stories about him in Cleveland and now the way he’s behaving with the Celtics and the fact that his teammates seem to despise him AND he’s playing awfully while not taking any responsibility. KD is just that obnoxiously self-conscious control freak who takes everything personally. Not the worst in the world, but a real challenge to root for.

* Ugly, isolation-based based basketball. Both Kyrie and KD love to play one on one.

* The return of all the brand appeal fans, just like with Melo. People who watch NBA basketball for the same reason some people read US Magazine… “They’re really famous so I want to talk about them!”

The team would likely be good although not good enough to win a title, and I respect the fact that for most people, that far outweighs all other factors. A decade ago, maybe I would have felt the same way. But I think if this happens, I will just have to stop watching the Knicks, maybe stop watching NBA basketball altogether since I won’t be able to resist following the Knicks if I’m still following the league.

The Nuggets have an interesting situation on their hands. First off, Millsap puts them $11M over the cap next year. Without him, they have $19M in space.

If the Nuggets renounce all of their free agents and decline Tyler Lydon’s option, they can open up around $16M in cap space. You might be looking at their space if they do crazy shit like decline the options on one or more of Murray/Beasley/Hernangomez?

With $16M, they’d run into the same problem Hubert runs into whenever he tries to put together a scenario where signing mid-tier free agents makes sense; the best one out there is…Paul Millsap, who’d they be trying to replace in this scenario.

Lpool Barca game on fire…

I’m asking about basketball related things.

this may fall under the whole poorly defined team “chemistry” thing…

initially i thought portland would beat the nuggets – more so than anything because of their experience (all though their playoff experience hasn’t been positive) and some clutch closers…however, if barton and harris keep playing at their current level, and, jokic stays consistent, i’m definitely leaning more now towards denver being able to win this series…

I really like Messi but walking alone was never my game. Torn but ok.

With $16M, they’d run into the same problem Hubert runs into whenever he tries to put together a scenario where signing mid-tier free agents makes sense; the best one out there is…Paul Millsap, who’d they be trying to replace in this scenario.

You’re still operating under the false assumption that every team will overpay to contend, or even that they prioritize the optimal lineup over the most cost effecient roster.

You ignored a pretty major point earlier. Probably because it disrupts your narrative. Perhaps you want to address why, if Denver is so hell bent on contending, they traded Faried, Arthur, and a 1st round pick to Brooklyn for a player they immediately waived.

TNFH, I think you’re right. Geo brings up the ‘poorly defined team chemistry thing’ and I think he’s potentially right too, but I don’t want to go there as it’s too hard (impossible) to say much of anything how that might really play out in terms of wins and losses.

What I keep coming back to is the question of where each of us stand in terms of good rootable team, vs. playing for a ring every year, vs. ring or bust. I look at the team KD is playing for now, and the fact that he’s got himself a fairly good point guard at the moment — and a decent amount of (admittedly declining somewhat) firepower alongside that Curry fellow. And even now nothing’s guaranteed. How does KD and Kyrie compare to that? Yeah, MichRob, but then? If we get Zion perhaps all bets are off, but otherwise I am hard-pressed to see us being at best even money to crap out in the second round.

I’d take that in a second, trust me, but I think we top out about the same with Kemba. And I’d rather root wildly for the team and say “good job” at the end of the year than grind my teeth for the entire season and spend the offseason arguing about whether Kyrie shot us out of that round or we just didn’t cohere because he’s an ass or rationale C.

I just ran that Knicks wall thing about 40 or 50 times and didn’t get the #1 pick once. It booted me because it thought it was DDOSing it.

That’s not what he said at all. You’re intentionally misrepresenting his position so you can laugh at him.

I’m either the worst writer on earth or it’s a way of life for him. I thought I was pretty clear when I said that’s why they overpaid him.

It’s Kyrie age 27-30 versus Kemba age 29-32. Kyrie’s better in the first place, plus you get him closer to his prime for longer.

No brainer.

I’ve been trying to make the case that they’re closer than boxscore metrics would lead you to believe. It’s not that I’m anxious to sign Kemba. It’s that I’m becoming less anxious to sign Kyrie the more I analyze his game and impact on the Celtics (which is less than people assume) (over and above injury risk and personality)

I’m either the worst writer on earth or it’s a way of life for him. I thought I was pretty clear when I said that’s why they overpaid him.

As I showed above, you weren’t clear.

Which would you guys rather have:

KD
Zion
Kyrie

or

KD
(Kawhi)
Ja

It’s that I’m becoming less anxious to sign Kyrie the more I analyze his game and impact on the Celtics

Ah, the mysterious black box Strat metrics again. How much free time do you have on your hands? Because apparently you watch hundreds upon thousands of hours of NBA games and still have time to come up with these complex metrics that analyze things as micro as Kyrie Irving’s impact on the Celtics. You’re like a one man basketball Fangraphs over here. Plus all the horse racing stuff.

Are you just slamming Adderall every day and never sleeping?

As I showed above, you weren’t clear.

I can see where you were coming from after reading your explanation, but you have a habit of attacking things I am saying that wind up being misunderstandings of what I meant. IMO, that’s because you (and others) are LOOKING for something to attack instead of trying to understand what I am saying.

I’m a contrarian guy. So I get why I occasionally ruffle feathers. Ruffled feathers go both ways. It just makes me want to point out all the flaws in boxscore stats. 🙂

i had a good buddy, whom i’ve lost touch with, years ago whom during just about every and any conversation would always reply:

“no” – then restate pretty much exactly what you said, and, just change it up a bit…

“wow, what a great day, look at that blue sky”…”no, it’s an okay day, but, the sky is really much more indigo than anything”…

after a while, i just figured it was a part of his normal syntax and just didn’t let it bother me…

he just had a really competitive nature…imagine how annoying it would be to kick it with someone like a jordan or kobe…you would need the patience of a saint…

I drafted Zion and couldn’t get any free agents to sign. Built almost a 500 team even though I preserved cap space… Damn simulation!

You ignored a pretty major point earlier. Probably because it disrupts your narrative. Perhaps you want to address why, if Denver is so hell bent on contending, they traded Faried, Arthur, and a 1st round pick to Brooklyn for a player they immediately waived.

I ignored it because it was totally irrelevant. Faried wasn’t helping the Nuggets win games at all–he had only played 32 the season prior to the trade! It’s just not a remotely analogous scenario to letting their likely second best player walk after a 54 win season.

1. The Celtics were successful this year when Kyrie was out.

2. The Celtics were successful in the playoffs last year when Kyrie was out and Rozier was playing PG.

3. The Celtics were successful with no defense Isaiah Thomas running the point the year before that.

4. Kyrie’s on/off over the last 2 seasons was +3.1 and +2.8 (lifetime +3.1) vs. Kemba’s +10.9 and +6.5 (lifetime +5.6)

5. Kyrie is a ball dominant ISO player that his teammates reportedly do not like and feel hurts the flow of the offense even though he’s getting his numbers.

1. This is a 15 game sample size against almost entirely non-playoff teams

2. Rozier played very well during those playoffs, so I’m not sure what this is supposed to prove

3. Isaiah Thomas had one of the best scoring seasons for a guard of all time during this season, to the point where people thought trading him for Kyrie might’ve been a lateral move at best

4. Kyrie has been mostly playing on pretty deep Celtics teams and with LeBron James. Walker has been playing with teams incoherently thrown together.

5. This is terrible news for Kemba Walker, who has a higher USG%, lower AST%, and lower TS%

i’ve watched that melo game of zones like four times. d’antoni in particular was just fucking art.

Is Embiid dead?

I won’t even get into the Kyrie and Kemba debate because this is one of the most insane, and we’ve fucking seen insane around here, arguments I’ve seen on this board. It’s Ruruland putting Melo on LeBron’s level all over again.

This Philly-Toronto game is lame.

Strat, thanks for sharing that methodology. It’s a terrible methodology, and it does little to explain how a point guard with a .590 TS% on 30.0 USG% is somehow not a valuable player, but it’s… well, it’s a methodology.

If you’re gonna make an argument that a player with that kind of efficiency and usage is essentially a non-impact player, that’s one of those things where it’s an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary proof. Small-sample raw on/off data ain’t extraordinary proof.

With this one I think I’ll be sticking to the boxscore instead of STATVORP.

Sorry, that should have said STRATVORP.

Let’s hope POR-DEN is better than this crummy game

I don’t know what happened to Philly but they rolled over and died on Toronto’s home court.

Well, presumably the 1RP and room exception would be rotation players, and maybe you add a decent vet min piece, so if you add three more viable players to that roster maybe it starts to look pretty viable.

there might be other deals to make in that situation. something like knox/smith/filler for covington for example.

LOL the worst team in the NBA in the New York Knicks are on pace to add two top 10 players and a top 5 draft pick this offseason and people here are worried about this is not enough to win a championship. This is the reason it’s impossible to have nice things for some. Instead of appreciating what you’re about to have and looking forward to the journey, people are already projecting what they won’t accomplish.

I’ve read nothing since like 10am so I don’t know if this is upthread, but HOLY SHIT MURRAY

I’ve read nothing since like 10am so I don’t know if this is upthread, but HOLY SHIT MURRAY

He’s really responded ever since that OT stinker of his. Good for him. He is only 22.

Wait, somebody thinks Denver is going to decline Millsap’s option?

It does seem to be on the unlikely side of things.

Murray is undoubtedly very talented. I have no idea if he’ll ever harness this talent into great production and I’d be very concerned about signing him to a max, but at least there’s something to be excited about his future.

We’ve grabbed so many useful players off the garbage heap. Why are we worried about filling out the rest of the roster?

That makes sense, Brian, but the way I’m looking at it is like this:

We have to pay Durant supermax money for age 31-35 seasons.

It’s reasonable to assume he will be in decline for 2 of those seasons, if not 3.

If I have to pay that back end price, I want to be sure I can actually win in the season I’m most likely to get peak Durant. If I can’t the pieces around him right away, I don’t know it makes sense to sign him. Unless we’re cool with just watching the Durant show for a couple years without winning a title, which I’m sure sounds appealing to many.

Was just hanging out at a bar with Bill Clinton. The man is still as sharp as a tack! Hard to get a word in edgewise but you can listen to him expound on an array of subjects all day.

And Z-man’s the dude saying we’retoo cool for school

Foh old man ; )