Knicks Morning News (2018.10.21)

I think we have to find a way to trade Hardaway Jr.

Even if THJ is better than Trier now (which itself is debatable), the gap is not large, Trier is several years younger, and the price differential is enormous. I keep trying to root for Hardaway, but he takes so many horrid shots and make so many poor decisions, you just sort of know that by now these are no longer rookie or young player mistakes he’s going to outgrow. He is what he is. He’s going to make some hero shots along the way and may even win a game here or there carrying the load, but overall you are getting a player than makes too many mistakes to be counted on if you are trying to become a serious team. If he’s your 6th man you can live with it. But he shouldn’t start on a serious team. He’s JR Smith without the crazy.

In the article above, [NYPost] Fizdale’s response to critics of defensive call on last play I find Fizdale’s answer absolutely encouraging as a fan. That’s what it means to be a player’s coach. Maybe a more appropriate phrase should be “leader”. What he’s saying, I’m buying. Screw the outcome of games this season. Player development is the only thing that matters.

So Strat, I don’t think the Knicks are going to trade Hardaway. I think they want him to be an integral part of the future.

I was at the game last night. Considering that I was also at the Beasley MVP game vs. the C’s last year, I would recommend the KB crowd taking up a collection to buy tix for me to attend all future home games vs. the Massholes.

Observations beyond the obvious:

-Crowd had zillions of Celtics fans, who started chanting “Let’s go Celtics” en mass before tipoff. After that, they were quite subdued, even when the Celts made some mini-runs. And at the end, it was all pro-Knicks. Really a great game to be at for a Knicks fan overall, and probably for a Celtics fan as well.

-Tatum is an absolute stud. Dumb foul at the end, but the kid is so talented and poised, watching him torch us just makes jealous drool pour down my chin. Knox won’t realistically be in the same conversation as him for many years to come.

-I fucking hate Marcus Smart, maybe more than any player in the league.

-Red Panda never gets old.

-Kiss cam nailed a young couple right behind us, the boy seemed very reluctant and kissed his absolutely gorgeous date on the cheek. My friend quipped “I’ll do it for you!”

-The Daily Burger w/onion jam is top-notch.

Giving Timmy green light on offense leads to so many horrible shots it’s embarrassing. He is not, and never will be a #1 or #2 option on a good team.

@8 so his .173 WS48 and his 112 ORtg vs. 104 DRtg which both suggest that he is not only not “pretty bad” but actually “pretty good” don’t matter because BPM is now the “be all/end all” advanced stat when it suits your preconceived narrative? Okay, whatever.

@8 so his .173 WS48 and his 112 ORtg vs. 104 DRtg which both suggest that he is not only not “pretty bad” but actually “pretty good” don’t matter because BPM is now the “be all/end all” advanced stat when it suits your preconceived narrative? Okay, whatever.

I mean, dude, it’s been three games. There’s a very long track record here. If you would genuinely prefer to have THJ than an extra $17m in cap space (and being one Lee trade away from having two max slots) then good for you I guess.

Ironically enough, if the point you made was “we should stop talking about trading THJ because no other team would take that contract” I would’ve agreed. When we can say with a lot of confidence that literally no team would take him on free of cost, I think that’s a damn good sign that his contract sucks.

@4

I mostly disagree with everything you are saying.

1. I have no problem with Fizdale trying to develop him. He’s on our team for now. So we might as well try to make him a better player regardless of whether we keep him or try to convince someone else to take him.

2. If Mills/Perry are committed to him, that just tells me they are unwilling to admit they overpaid and/or can’t recognize he’s a 6th man.

3. He’s not growing into anything we didn’t already know he could be based on the way he played in Atlanta. I was arguing all last year he deserved a bit of a pass for the sub par performance because he was hurt and was in a bit of funk when he finally came back. We also have more firepower this year. So even if he’s getting off more shots, it’s probably coming easier. He’s the same player now as he has been. He’s going to throw up a lot of hot garbage. Some nights they are going to go in and other nights he’s going to single handedly cost us games with his poor shot selection and passing decisions at critical points in a game.

4.If I was management, I’d be praying he keeps scoring a lot of points because he’s been thrust into the #1 option role. Then I might be able to move a 6th man that’s getting paid a top starter’s salary.

@7 I agree. He’s a talented player, but he makes me cringe 5-10 times a game. I don’t mind cringing at Knox, Frank, and Trier because I expect a lot of mistakes at their age. Timmy should be beyond that. He’s not even a 3rd option as a starter. He’d still take horrible shots and make dumb passes. There would just be fewer of them because he’d have fewer opportunities. He wouldn’t adjust his shot distribution at all because he has no idea what he’s doing.

Strat, you can keep dreaming all you want, but barring injury or a complete meltdown, there is no way that Timmy isn’t starting nearly all 82 games this year. There is no way he is going to not have a “green light” all season barring the unexpected.

I just don’t get why so many here have concluded that a 26yo TH2 can’t evolve, given a new situation, role, coach. Maybe it’s unlikely, but it isn’t unprecedented. The key for him is continuing to hit 3’s at a near 40% clip. If he does that, I can live with his defensive issues. And as I said, say what you want about his shooting and D so far this year, without him the last two games would have been blowouts.

very interesting combo having kanter and robinson on the floor at the same time…mitchrob looked really lost at the 4…

vonleh continues to amaze…willy and kyle who?

it’s great fiz is able to speak so openly about player development…he really does seem like a good fit for this team…

the last couple of games have had excellent results (minus the knox injury, but, even that may turn out helpful to further evaluate other players on the roster)…

burke is doing a solid job at the 1 for us…man, it’s been a long time since we’ve seen at least league average point guard play…

THJr was terrible last night. He’s turned into a black hole on offense with career highs in FGA and USG% while getting only 2.7 assists/game and a 1.5 AST:TO. He takes so many bad shots that even though he has career highs in 3P%, FT%, and FTR so far his eFG% and TS% are at or below his mediocre career averages. It’s also not a coincidence that we came back last night with THJr and his shitty Kobe impression on the bench.

And that’s not even mentioning his defense.

@19 narrow-minded narrative-driven eye test drivel
@20 reasonable stats-supported analysis, is that so hard? Nothing wrong with being pessimistic about his sustaining his play thus far, but to say he was “terrible” last night is just silly.

It’s also not a coincidence that we came back last night with THJr and his shitty Kobe impression on the bench.

I guess Timmy hit those 2 consecutive 3’s from the bench. Not even Kobe could do that!

And unlike vs. LeVert, Timmy played excellent D on Tatum on that last possession, Tatum hit a phenominal Paul Pierce special over his hand.

If anyone was terrible last night, it was Frank. But don’t worry, it’s only 3 games, his offense will come around any day now.

And Hezonja is not much fun to watch, he just stands around on both ends unless he has the ball.

Kiss cam nailed a young couple right behind us, the boy seemed very reluctant and kissed his absolutely gorgeous date on the cheek. My friend quipped “I’ll do it for you!”

Am I really the only one bothered by this? It’s the kind if crap that normalizes rape culture.

@21

lol, apparently using FGA, USG%, AST:TO, 3PT%, FT%<, FTR, TS%, and eFG% is eye test drivel. You're a clown.

@26 In what your friend said I hear:

1. A woman wouldn’t mind getting kissed by a man she doesn’t know and most likely doesn’t want to get kissed by.

2. A guy who doesn’t give his date a huge kiss is not man enough and needs help from real men in the stands.

When I was growing up in the late 70’s and 80’s this would have been ok, and kind of funny and cool. But things changed for the better since then and I think my choice of words, rape culture, is pretty accurate.

FGA: It’s irrelevant unless he is shooting at a low efficiency, which he isn’t.
USG% see above
AST:TO pretty normal for a 2
3pt%: I guess 39% is bad. I guess 5-11 last night is terrible.
FT%: I guess .944 is bad. I guess 3-3 last night is terrible.
FTr: I guess .265 is terrible
TS%: I guess .553 is terrible
eFG%: I stipulate that it isn’t great

But I guess JK47 and DRed are clowns too. Or maybe you’re just a moron. I’ll go with door #2.

@27 He whispered it to me, so neither the woman nor the man has any idea what was said, nor did anyone else in the crowd. I will admit that my sense of humor in the company of my friends (not to mention my ultra-feminist wife) has few boundaries. If you choose to long for a world where every off-color joke between close friends is considered an affirmation of rape culture, good for you. And I surely hope you are not one of those hypocrites who cries foul at every opportunity in public but makes all sorts of comments and jokes in private, or listens to music loaded with racist/sexist themes, or enjoys TV shows and movies where off-color humor is the norm.

@31

He whispered it to me

You didn’t whisper it. You put it here.
I think I got my point across and I don’t need to continue this. Feel free to do whatever you want with it.
And no, I’m not “one of those hypocrites.” I try to avoid rape culture to the best of my ability.

PS you patronize a team (just by watching the games and contributing to this blog, if nothing else) whose owner and president both were complicit (and still in denial about) a sexual harrassment culture, and who traded for and enabled Derrick Rose and who signed and now play Daymean Dotson (you rooted against him last night, of course, right?) Not to mention strutting out scantily-clad all-female dancers and having Kiss-cam promotions during time-outs. And you avoid rape culture to the best of your ability?

It that doesn’t make you a hypocrite, what does?

Am I really the only one bothered by this? It’s the kind if crap that normalizes rape culture.

I certainly hope so.

rape noun (1)
\?r?p \
Definition of rape (Entry 1 of 4)
1 : unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person’s will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception — compare SEXUAL ASSAULT, STATUTORY RAPE

Words have actual meanings. There is nothing remotely described in the “kiss cam”story that can be conflated into “rape culture”. Period. Camille Paglia would be very cross with you.

bob @37, this, the meaning of rape culture, is for you. You can also search for the phrase yourself and find plenty of material.

Thanks for the pro tip. Let me use your definition and please point out to me how any of the half dozen or so so called criteria are met by the “kiss cam” story. How precisely was “rape culture” subborned by anything that transpired???

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj9mIKIqJjeAhWPm-AKHbztAYIQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Fwaiting-princess-bride-gif-4685459&psig=AOvVaw1PZyDgBQoyH-zdapZgnaY8&ust=1540238065885802

Rape culture is a sociological concept for a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.[1][2] Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, slut-shaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by sexual violence, or some combination of these

Well, there was some borderline (and I believe harmless) sexual objectification there, but I prefer not to succumb to advocates for a sterilized world where every comment needs to pass muster with largely hypocritical self-appointed morality police.

I think it’s harmless if it’s not uttered to a trusted associate. I tell my wife about being attracted to people we see in public and she does the same. Attraction is natural and healthy.

That said, there’s a big bright line when it comes to vocalizing it to the object of the attraction or uttering it to a person who might not understand your personal boundaries include not deliberately or thoughtlessly making a person aware that they’re being sexualized. Even more important is the reminder that the object of those comments cannot intuit your boundaries, and may feel like they’re on a path from a pleasant, though unsolicited compliment to a more aggressive and dangerous act. The fact is that most of us self-objectify in a way that makes us feel desired or desirable, but also most of us don’t want an unwelcome advance of any kind. This is especially important for women and minors, as they are much more likely to be the recipient of predatory violence both physical and not. I’m glad that Z-man clarified that it was a whisper and not specifically pointed toward the young woman, as that would have been pretty vile in a way that appears normal to people who, say, assert strongly that rape culture is an invention by liberal colleges, often people who think National Review is a bastion of rational thought.

Again, it would have been a major issue for me if it had been directed to the woman. It wasn’t, so I see no real harm. It was, to my mind, a guy saying that he would gladly kiss the woman if she were so inclined, not that he’d force himself upon her.

I think for the first time in my life I agree 100% with @ 45 and I am sure that will make him feel uneasy. 🙂

Nice post, Jowles. Although did you mean if it is uttered to a trusted associate?

Also, to restate, the whole Kiss-cam thing sort of “demands” that the guy and gal (never a gay couple) kiss or be booed as the young couple behind me was. That should be cause for outcry, not my friends comment.

I also want to mention that this is my current paradigm regarding sex and society, and that has come a long way since my youth. I thought for much of my teenage years that women wanted to be pursued and “chased,” which became quite a shock when I learned the truth of the matter. That said, I soon thereafter had a very feminist, very progressive, queer girlfriend from Bard (who ran the school’s well-funded prophylactic dispensary) who deliberately dated me (a guy from a blue-collar, poorly-bred family) because her previous boyfriends at Bard had certain tendencies that put her off, like sitting down when they peed and apologizing during sex. I was happy to be her middle ground.

I welcome dissent to my current paradigm, only because I have been wrong on this sort of thing before.

How about talking about basketball instead?

Trae young not a bust anymore

Z-Man

Strat, you can keep dreaming all you want, but barring injury or a complete meltdown, there is no way that Timmy isn’t starting nearly all 82 games this year. There is no way he is going to not have a “green light” all season barring the unexpected.

I get it.

It’s going to take time for someone to push him aside. When you are the more experienced and higher paid player (that current management signed) you aren’t going to lose your spot in the lineup unless it gets so blatantly obvious you should, even the beat writers are saying it. However, “on merit” I think the only thing keeping him ahead of Trier is that he’s a little more well rounded as a play maker. It would not shock me if the consensus here was that Trier was better by the all-star break.

My biggest problem with Hardaway’s situation is despite what he said, Fizdale is having him guard sf’s in crunch time. He simply can’t do it. The problem will only get worse once Lee comes back.

I’m glad I don’t have to date anymore.

In my day, most people had fun, joked about sex, and had a great time in mixed company. In fact, the women were often way worse than the men because the men were already aware that they shouldn’t cross certain lines. You knew what you could say and how they would respond as you got to know people and see them in mixed company.

That doesn’t mean there weren’t all kinds of scumbags out there that crossed all sort of lines verbally, physically, and by using their position of power. Naturally, that’s the stuff we have to eliminate.

But seriously, the current environment is an overshoot in some ways. Just the other day my company required everyone to listen to a 15 minute presentation on micro-aggressions. I considered having to listen to that garbage a micro-aggression.

Giving Timmy green light on offense leads to so many horrible shots it’s embarrassing

if you aren’t aggressive you may never get laid in your entire life

I feel like there are some parallel insights weaving in and out of this thread.

Jokic playing like a mere human tonight…

That doesn’t mean there weren’t all kinds of scumbags out there that crossed all sort of lines verbally, physically, and by using their position of power.

I’m pretty sure we have one in the White House…..

Jokic playing like a mere human tonight…

A merely excellent human, as opposed to playing possibly the greatest 31 minutes of NBA basketball ever last night. (The craziest thing about his line from yesterday was the 0 turnovers. I’m still in awe. Just insane.)

I should also point out that I see no issue at all with the case Z-Man commented, specially since it was two friends talking to each other and not saying it directly to the couple. What I’m trying to bring attention to is that the decision on whether to be offended or not is on the person that was the subject of the joke, not the person making it. That’s the main thing about denouncing rape culture and similar cases, it’s about empowering the victim, enabling him / her / they to stop a situation that is bothersome or downright offensive or abusive and providing support and channels for help for people in those situations. It’s not perfect and it’s gonna be excessive sometimes but oh well, It’s a work in progress and it’s better than just pretending it doesn’t happen.

@68 it’s obvious that you don’t think being an asshole to someone is bad behavior. Almost everyone does. It’s obvious that you think calling someone out for being an asshole is tantamount to requesting they be killed – that’s literally what you compared it to. It’s obvious that you don’t think a pattern of rewarded assholery doesn’t contribute to more excessive bad behavior.. except I think you probably do. I can’t figure out why you’d overreact so strongly to a mild rebuke unless you’ve done similar and worse and you feel bad about. Why else would you get so defensive? It’ll be okay Bob. No one wants to ‘disappear’ you. But maybe talk to someone about what you’ve been through.

Cedi Osman currently leads the Cavs in BPM. It’s going to be a long year in Cleveland.

OKC just lost to the Kings and are 0-3 for the season. I wonder what’s going on there.

Roberson is absurdly (almost inconceivably) important to their chances of being a good team. That said, even without him, there is no reason that they should be losing to Sacramento.

By the way, Fox has started the season well. If he could just score efficiently, he’s going to be a very good player.

I love looking at the early season per game leaders. You get some bizarre stuff, like Kemba Walker leading the NBA in PPG and JJ Barea being tied for the lead league in Assists Per Game.

Fox has been very, very impressive. I don’t think he’ll ever be a super efficient scorer but he could be a highly effective PG with a .550 or .560 ts%, good assist numbers and solid defense. He looks like he belongs.

Like so many of these guys, they just have to be kind of sort of efficient and they become studs. I was willing to bet that Fox would get there when he was a college player, but there were points in his rookie season where I thought it might never come. That, though, is the bizarre thing about so many of these point guard prospects. They need to sort of spontaneously develop efficiency. And a lot of them do. But a lot of them don’t. It makes them very difficult to project.

However, not one time in my entire life did I see any of my friends give a hard time to a gay person in any way shape or form.

OMG please stop. Nobody gives a shit about what you saw your friends do. Ask your gay friends what it was like growing up and try to find a single one who was not harassed without mercy. If you have gay friends that is.