[NYTimes] The Liberty Try to Make Westchester Feel Like Home (Sunday, June 17, 2018 11:25:51 PM)
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The day after Donald Trump won the 2016 presidential election, I took my 2-year-old son to a mommy-and-me music class in Park Slope. The teacher began the class by passing around a box of tissues and leading us in a rousing chorus of “We Shall Overcome.”
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That…
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Database fits the NYPD profile
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One of the men, Kunta Edwards,…
(Sunday, June 17, 2018 9:45:00 PM)
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(Sunday, June 17, 2018 9:00:00 PM)
They’ve seen the consequences of speeding drivers — and want Albany to slow them down.
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(Sunday, June 17, 2018 8:30:00 PM)
Captain Marvel is bringing along a female sidekick behind the scenes.
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(Sunday, June 17, 2018 9:17:42 PM)
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(Sunday, June 17, 2018 12:26:04 PM)
The Knicks are projected to take Kentucky small forward Kevin Knox in the latest ESPN mock draft.
[NY Newsday] Knicks projected to take Kentucky’s Knox in latest ESPN mock draft (Sunday, June 17, 2018 12:26:04 PM)
The Knicks are projected to take Kentucky small forward Kevin Knox in the latest ESPN mock draft.
104 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.06.18)”
I wonder if the Knixks are hyping a lot of guys and underselling others as a trade ploy. For example, if a team below them really likes Knox or Walker, maybe they will trade up if they think the Knicks will draft them. I mean, isn’t that what happened with the Celts and Sixers? It turns out that the Celts would probably not have drafted Fultz anyway (and the Lakers were taking Ball for sure) so by not letting on, Ainge goaded Philly into an unnecessary trade. Not that it would work, but I think it’s fair to say that we have absolutely no idea how this draft will go, other than the top 4-5 or so, and there are trade possibilities even with those!
Yeah, we have no idea how this will shake out. Young, Sexton, Carter, Porter, Bridges x 2, Knox, and Walker are all in play, and that’s just if we stay at 9. Can’t wait for Thursday!
I can never escape the suspicion that all the mock drafts out there mostly reflect writer’so order of preference for potential draftees rather than the different team’so preferences..
This morning I read that Steve Ballmer likes Knox. That would fit in with the theory that the Knicks may be using the NY press to hype Knox and potentially work out a trade with the Clippers.
I’m not very worried about Knox’s stats. They aren’t that bad given he’s quite a bit younger than some of the other players we are considering drafting. I’m more worried about his defense. He’s long, but he’s not quick footed. I think he’s going to have a tough time with NBA SFs and at least for awhile he’s not going to be strong enough for NBA PFs. I would really like to solidify the defense with Mikal and worry about getting another scorer in free agency or next year. Mikal is a perfect fit for us. Even if he never becomes a high level scorer, he’s smart enough to be an efficient lower usage scorer.
Interesting to hear Mike Schmitz (from DX/ESPN) this morning on Nate Duncan’s podcast specifically call our Kevin Knox and Lonnie Walker as guys he really likes.
Said Knox is really skilled, and when they started scouting him at age 15 he was primarily a defensive guard-everybody guy. I still can’t get past how bad his steal and block numbers are.
A couple other interesting things he said – he is not high at all on Mikal Bridges – says (as some posters here have said) that his 1-on-1 defense is not great, perhaps Otto Porter level, although his team defense is good. Also thinks he’s extremely limited offensively. He completely dismissed the notion that Wendell Carter could be a switch defender (ie. not a good fit to play next to KP) due to his slow feet. Also is scared to death of Michael Porter.
Here how I think the draft order pans out,
Top 3 are
Dincic, trae, bamba.
Next 5
Ayton, jjj, bagley, carter, miles
If all stays in order for us Our choices will be
Mpjr, Mikal, Knox. Walker, smith, brown… am I missing anyone?
If we swing for the fences we will take porter; although if he gets to us Chicago passed on him is a possible red flag.
What we need to do is deal with Denver and get fairied for Lee and their pick and swap out second 36.
I’m starting to like smith and brown as sleepers
All this Kawhi, Kyrie, LBJ, blah blah blah etc..free agent/trade talk needs to go away ASAP. We need to solidify the young core first.
However, we should be looking to take fugly contract with a max two year expiration in exchange for moving up and getting Doncic or Mamba. MSG shareholders (myself included) have made a killing since Melo entered the garden so its a minor price to pay. No one really cares, including Dolan himself. Trade should only be done on draft day and not hope to get lucky like the Jets did.
A core of young smart two way position-less players of:
Frank
KP
Doncic/Mamba
– instant offense Michigan Bench.
With that core, next two years are exiting and fun with zero expectations. At this point, new fugly contract expires at the same time as Noah, Lee, & Thomas, we’ll have two all-stars on roster and cap space for top free agent and a perfect fit previous champion veteran whose strengths fill holes. Then you just sit back, baby sit personalities and watch the cake rise.
I don’t know if the ringer knows what they’re talking about (occasionally they have something substantive, but I’m finding more of their writing to be contrarian hot takes), but they have Knox going 7 and Young falling to us.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.113174023.2062576602.1529331178-1870787895.1497883599
I mean, I’ll take it.
the numbers are pretty bad…. it’s not just defensive/athleticism stats… it’s the ballhandling(ast/to) and also the rebounding… that’s the definition of a one-dimensional player… and a lot of folks think you can survive as just a scorer but if you don’t fill up the box score in other ways then you’re not going to be playing too many minutes….
to give you an idea…. he’s probably somewhere between a sam dekker and wiggins… and a wiggins is pretty interesting since a lot of folks were saying similar things about him when he was coming out… that he was long and athletic… but so far we haven’t really seen that be leveraged on the basketball court since his hs days…
and knox still falls short of what wiggins did in college… and this is across the board…. and their hype is basically a remnant of what they were in hs and very little to do with who they actually are….
@7
Memphis and the 4 for taking back chandler is a great deal we should make. Wouldn’t kanter make the most sense since he could opt out and they dumped two years of parsons for a #4.
Kanter should be a team player and let us know what he intends to do.
The problem with getting that #4 from Memphis is that other teams are going to want that pick also and they will probably have more to offer if Memphis is truly interested in trading it.
@11 – there just aren’t that many teams that could give Memphis useful players in their ill-fated playoff push AND a reasonably valuable pick in return AND be willing to take on Parsons’s contract
Really I can only see the Clippers trading one of their lottery picks + Tobias Harris and someone else, but you have to wonder from the Clips’ perspective whether that is just a bad move. Harris is pretty good and he is already on their roster being productive. They could get a really good player at 12 and 13 also.
Depends on what our FO thinks the timeline for this team really is — our we planning on stretching Noah, trading Lee for whatever, then going after Kyrie next summer and moving ahead with, say, Kyrie, Frank, Timmy, Knox, and Porzingis as out core?
If you ask me, especially if Doncic is there at 4, I would forego the FA market next summer then make 2020 our real push with Frank, Doncic, and KP as our core going forward.
I would go as far as #9 + Lee + Lance + top 5 protected 1st next year for Doncic. Lee and Lance are nice vets but will not be part of the next good Knicks team. The 2019 1st hurts, but hey, you need to give something good to get something good.
(I don’t think Mills/Perry would ever do this deal)
Just to expand on that – let’s say Memphis really does want to make the playoffs. If you ask me, their best move would be to take Doncic, but let’s say they don’t believe in him. Their roster is basically Conley, Gasol, JaMychal Green, and a bunch of guys who should be bench rotation guys at best.
If they did the trade I suggested above, they could start Conley, Lee, draft Mikal Bridges, Green, and Gasol. It’s not great but it’s also not bad. And they would have what will prob be a lottery pick in a (weak) 2019 draft.
@11, – which other NBA owner is going to go into luxury tax territory as a rebuilding strategy? Who is going to give them more than this years #9, #36 and take back up to $49.2M in salary just to move up 5 spots?
Let’s say we make that trade with Memphis, and the top three are Ayton, Bagley, Doncic.
Who do you take at 4?
@15
Carter, with an off chance of Trae.
I’d also consider JJJ.
@15. Only make the trade on draft day if Doncic or Mamba are available. Sacramento may want to further continue their unload and dump Zebo and Shump too.
@16 Same.
I think I’d take Bamba. And if he and Porzingis don’t play well together, I’ll trade KP next year when he’s healthy instead of signing him to a max contract.
I would not consider Young at 4. I’d be fine if he fell to 9 and we took him, but at 4 I would never draft a player who is that bad defensively when there are guys like Bamba, Carter, and Jackson on the board.
If Bamba is capable of dropping down on switches on the perimeter like Chandler was (a big if! I’ve never seen a big man defend wings like Chandler could), then he’s precisely the player Porzingis needs to cover him at Center, like Chandler did for Dirk.
JJJ is a better fit next to KP than Bamba.
Guys, Memphis is a bad organization, but they are not doing that stupid trade. They wouldn’t even if you threw in Frank. They want instant cap relief, not old-ass Lee or terrible TH2.
Just forget it. They WILL get better offers.
I’d make the trade no matter who is available. There’s no downside. We’re capped out for the duration of Parsons’ contract.
I’m pretty sure that a) Kanter’s decision to opt in or out is after the draft, and b) we can trade him before he decides. In that case, we can send them Lee, Kanter, and the 9 for Parsons, McLemore, and the 4. Kanter would most likely opt out. They’d save ~$28mm, add a solid 2 guard for their misguided playoff push, and still get a quality player at 9 like Mikal Bridges.
Why do you say that? I like JJJ, but I see him more as a replacement for KP, not a complementary piece. Neither of them can rebound.
If they want to remain in the top 10 of the draft, who’s going to make them a better offer? Orlando and Chicago are likely going to get the same caliber player at 6 and 7, respectively, that is available at 4. And there aren’t a lot of owners willing to pay $30mm (Parsons’ contract) to move up in the draft. I don’t see Philadelphia burning all their cap space to move up 6 spots. Maybe the Clippers behind us.
If I were Memphis I’d give up on this core and just rebuild, and I think that’s what they’ll ultimately do. But if their goal is to dump Parsons, save money, and be in the playoffs next year, then we are probably their best partner
It would have to be 2020 top 5 protected. We can’t give up back to back first round picks.
This is the kind of deal I threw out there the other day. We want a pick this and next year because we need assets and are likely to be bad again next year with KP out. But adding in the 2020 (which should still be a decent pick) may be tempting enough to get them interested without being too damaging to us assuming everyone is healthy and developing. Maybe it will take more than Lee, but if the right player drops to #4 we’d have to consider giving up a 2020 pick to get another potential star.
This is all low-probability stuff — meaning that I doubt any trade gets made. But that Parsons contract is TERRIBLE. Like probably worse than Joakim Noah just because it’s ~$5MM more per year. In a vacuum it would probably cost them 2 lottery-protected 1st round picks to get rid of that contract.
If one can believe the reporting coming out of Memphis, they are not in tear-down mode. They don’t have their pick next year, so there’s no reason to tank. They have 2 max players that are still in their theoretical (end of) primes. They’re already over the cap with just 11 players on their roster right now, and if they want to bring back Tyreke Evans (or improve their team in any other way such as using an exception), they will be pretty close to the tax line considering minimum roster cap holds and the ~$4MM rookie slot for #4. Even in their wildest dreams I don’t imagine they think they are a contender this coming year, so while they want to be competitive, there is no way Pera wants to pay luxury tax for a 6/7/8 seed. So the Parsons contract really does matter.
Lee + Lance saves them about $5MM this coming year, and going from #4 -> #9 would save them $1.5MM this year while giving them 2 rotation players. Then with #9 they could draft Bridges, and still have what will likely be a lottery pick next year. If they are not in love with whoever falls to them out of Bamba/Doncic/JJJ then I would prob do this trade if I were them.
Re: who we should take – I think the only 3 guys I would take at #4 would be Doncic, JJJ, and much less so Bamba. Doncic and JJJ could play immediately with KP and the rest of the young guys without any fit issues.
@26 you can trade 2019 pick because we’d still have a 2018 selection. I wouldn’t, though.
What I’m not sure of his how Kanter works. Does he have to opt in to be traded? That would essentially give him a NTC before the draft.
I take this back.
I’m not sure what the rule is if you swap picks, but I’d still want to keep that pick for 2019/2020. Maybe if we protected more than just 1-5.
Rebounding is a concern, though I think Bridges, JJJ and Ward all deflated each other’s DRB%, but he’s more mobile and far more likely to replicate Chandler/peak Noah ability to check wings on the perimeter. He’s also got a more proven perimeter stroke along with an 80 FT%, always a positive indicator. Unlike Bamba he flashed some ball skills and ability to attack the rim off of closeouts and showed some playmaking talent, far more than Bamba.
Bamba keeps KP at the 5 whereas JJJ gives you far more lineup flexibility because he can flex between the 4 and 5.
They have protection if they wanted to tank again:
Memphis’ 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021
Theoretically if Doncic is there we could pull the trigger on the trade, then use the #9 pick for Memphis, and announce the trade after. Then we could send the 2019 pick.
Whatever, I’m happy to do the 2020 pick instead-
Assuming Gasol and Conley are healthy, it’s hard to imagine them tanking.
Phoenix could offer #16 and either one of their two 2019 1st rounders along with the actual expiring contracts of Tyson Chandler and Dudley for Parsons and the #4. They have salary space to fill and no free agent opportunities, so why not just absorb Parsons and the #4. (In the 2019 could be a right to swap between Phoenix and Memphis next year).
what are the rules about trading players whose contracts are about to expire at the end of the league year (ie. in 2 weeks)?
re: the PHX possibiltiy – #16 is not nearly as valuable as #9.
@5 I hold Mike Schmitz in incredibly high regard. He has been spot-on in defining players’ strengths and weaknesses in his video analysis work. That he’s high on Knox and Walker and not so much on Carter, Mikal and Porter (and I would not take Porter with the #9 pick, it’s just too risky) should be taken seriously. I mean, it’s still a guessing game, but I value his opinion more than most pundits.
Is it fair to say that if a franchise offers a contract above league minimum, and that player retires upon expiration, it’s a terrible contract?
I feel like we’re in a golden age of players making $10-25M AAV who will probably be out of the league once their contract expires.
They get no help this year in that scenario. With us, they save money, add Lee and Mikal Bridges. Or they can ignore Lee, save more money and just add Bridges
@36 – he was scared of Porter but I think it was in the context of picking him very high. I think at #9 he’s an ok gamble.
I have to say that I am more optimistic than I’ve ever been in terms of the FO’s ability to get through to the players. Mills and Perry both seem like great communicators, Fizdale has that rep also (minus Gasol of course), and you have to figure Craig Robinson has some credibility with guys as not only a basketball guy but also his connection to the Obamas. The guys they sent to the G-league really did develop, and dudes like Trey Burke, Kornet, Dotson, etc. all seem like they have their heads on straight at this point in time (I am not talking about Dotson’s issues at Oregon).
Meanwhile did anyone see Kanter’s workout videos of him knocking down 3’s? He’ll never be a good defender, but if he can hit 3’s at a respectable rate, he becomes a lot more theoretically useful – ie. at least he won’t be getting in everyone else’s way.
It might be worse than you think. I can see John Wall and Blake Griffin being done the year after they each make $40mm!!
What I’ve read about Memphis is that they are willing to listen to offers for the #4 pick that include an “established player” coming back and the Parsons contract going out…so the assumption is that they want to make another run with Gasol and Conley, not just get cap relief.
If the rumors are true, the Knicks have a chance IF Memphis likes THJ or Lee enough. I doubt that they do, but hey, plenty of teams make dumb decisions, so there is some small hope there.
Down here in SEC country, I watched a lot of Kentucky, and the only “plus” skill that Knox showed is a nice stroke. In time, he might be a very nice stretch four with range. But he sure looked a bit slow to react/move on D, and seemed to stand around a lot. He is real young, though, and a mild-mannered kid, so perhaps he can improve a lot. They have to make a good call on his willingness to work and improve.
If he ends up being the guy, as I already said, I’ll try to see that as a sign that the new GM really is looking to play for 3-4 years from now instead of a quick 1-2 year plan. Frank and Knox would be a very young core.
The garden is a pressure cooker, from what I’ve read Knox does not have the demeanor to handle all that comes with being a 19 years old rookie. He should ask frank how tough the garden is to break in to a pro career.
As a scout I would think you need players who relish the spotlight and thrive under pressure.
What other city would boo a 19 years old kid in the city that just drafted him on draft night other than ny?
Remember KP being booed in 2015? And he has the swagger … Knox is not that guy!
No, I think I only have a problem when the player should have retired by the time they signed the contract (Parsons, Noah,…), you can find many examples of players retiring on a non-minimum contract being incredibly important for their team.
Knicks made out like bandits with the 4th pick of 2015 draft. Need to do it again this year at #4, maybe its our lucky spot.
Sitting tight and picking 9th is riskier than going for it with Doncic or Mamba. We could end up swing for fences at some point for a much riskier injury prone veteran with at quarter billion contract.
Did we make out like bandits?
We got a injury prone 7’3 sweet shooter who is now out for another season possibly and due a max contract …
@42 “What other city would boo a 19 years old kid in the city that just drafted him on draft night other than ny?” – I’ll go with Philadelphia
I also agree with your point, emotional makeup should play a big part in deciding which player to take.
Now we have Knox thrown into the rumors about the Knicks. Hopefully the front office has done their due diligence and picks the right player. They really need to not fuck this up.
Kanter is either out of his mind, took the wrong medication, or is trolling Lebron again. There is zero chance he is coming to NY this time. Maybe when he’s 39 and done, but not now.
There’s actually an off chance that, if we trade TH2 and the #9 for Parsons and Doncic, that Parsons and Noah are both healthy for at least half a season. Trey Burke, Ntilikina, Doncic, Parsons, and Noah with Kanter, Lee and whatever pieces we have off the bench would not be a terrible starting line up and is pretty balanced in terms of offense and defense.
If that team wins 35 games in its first year with KP coming back, a late lottery pick, and room for a max salary guy, we might be able to make some noise in 2019-2020.
I think the dream is, for me, Irving, Ntilikina, Doncic, Leonard, and Porzingis. Is it possible? Probably not, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see it happen either. Players love Porzingis and they love New York City. I’d just as fast settle for Doncic and nothing else, but I think there’s a huge opportunity for us to jump up and get a second franchise player in the draft. I think Parsons and #4 for TH2, the #9, and Lance Thomas (whose last year is non guaranteed) is a pretty sweet deal for both teams involved considering the goals of both organizations. I think it only works, though, if Doncic is there at #4 and Bridges is there at #9
@36, what does Schmitz think about Trae and JJJ? Those are the 2 guys I’d want after Doncic if we were to make this hypothetical Memphis deal to get #4, which I would do because I think these 3 are the class of the draft for today’s NBA.
LeBron is teaming up with Kawhi in either Philly or LA.
The more things I read seems like if one of the consensus Top 8 guys falls to the Knicks it would be Trae Young and I’m totally fine with that.
Tim Duncan, David Robinson and Karl Malone are the only ones I can think of.
What about Ray Allen, Rasheed Wallace (before coming from retirement to NY), Jason Kidd?
I dont know, I think there are a handful of veterans in small roles making more than the minimum and being useful to their teams, that retire after a successful campaign.
Sounds like he is not super high on Trae Young – offensively of course he likes him but said that once he stopped getting to the line quite as much the 2nd half of the year, his efficiency totally plummeted. Also said he often was non-effort on defense.
Every scout ever loves JJJ. Thinks he is high IQ and can play any defense you want him to. Believes in his shot too. Schmitz said a bunch of teams have him #1 on their board.
From Marc Stein:
#9 is prob not high lottery, but the fact that there seems to be a consensus top 8 might make it harder for them to trade any higher than #9 (ie. why would someone in the top 8 trade for #4 when they guy they get at #8 is similar to the guy at #4?).
Also from Marc Stein – More
I have no idea how they will get into the top 10. They have no 1st this year, and they don’t have much in the way of the inexpensivetrade assets lottery teams want unless maybe Anunoby counts.
Stein also suggests the Raptors want to get a pick high enough to pick SGA, and that:
Not that we should ever trade with Masai again, but if no one is off-limits… Kanter + Lee + the 9th pick for Lowry works on the Trade Machine.
Thanks Frank. I’m banking on Trae’s 2nd half downturn being mainly due to opponents taking him out of the game due to his brutal teammates.
I’d trade the #9 for OG. Somebody call up Masai.
hey if they want SGA that badly it should be #9 for Anunoby + their first next year at the very least.
Interesting tidbit from the Nate Duncan podcast – that the year they presumably do away with 1-and-done there will prob be a relative flood of high schoolers declaring for the draft in addition to the 1-and-dones from the previous high school graduating class. Reporting seems to indicate 2021 draft might be when it happens. That likely means that draft will be stacked. We will have Charlotte’s 2021 2nd which might be nice. but perhaps we should be trying to get 1sts from that year in any trades.
I’m seeing both SGA and Knox going ahead of us in mock drafts. This one could be really unpredictable.
Please let’s not trade for DeMar DeRozan ok
I must enjoy simplicity. I want to watch the draft show, hear that we took Mikal, and then take a nap. That will make me feel like I know what we got, I know where we are, and I know what we have to add in the next couple of years. I’l be very comfortable that we have 3 solid young players that defend and a pretty good bench.
I think the only trade option you guys have mentioned that would get us to 4 would a future 1, and can we please, please not do that? that never works out well for us. So we maybe get Doncic this year. then in two years, we lose a pick that would have been 6th (for example) and it’s a deep draft and we miss out on a guy just as good.
GM Isaiah Thomas disagrees
Anunoby for #9 is tempting- I ‘d probably do it if none of Young, Carter or Porter fall. He basically gives you what you hope Mikal Bridges will give you- he’s not the elite shooting prospect Bridges is but he did hit 37% from three last year and I think given his frame his defensive upside is higher than Bridges. He’s also almost a full year younger than Bridges. Obviously you lose one year of team control but he saves you $s because he was drafted so low.
A couple of clarifications.
1) you can’t trade a player who is or could be a rising free agent. Ie anyone with an option. This means we can’t trade Kanter. I don’t know if he is formally allowed to exercise his option before the draft – then we maybe could. But he has already said he wants to see how the draft shakes out to get a handle on his market.
2) the Stepien rule says you can’t be without a pick in back to back future drafts. It doesn’t matter if it was originally your pick or one you traded for. So if we pick at 4, we absolutely can trade both the 9 and our 2019 pick.
3) Under no circumstances SHOULD we trade the 2019 pick. We will be bad, and giving up what could be a very high pick just because we all have present bias and like the toys in front of us right now is not a good strategy. Maybe, MAYBE if Doncic is still there and it’s like top 10-15 protected, then I could live with it.
trading future picks for bargnani or eddy curry is really really bad….
trading future picks for doncic is multiple degrees better…. and next year’s draft doesn’t look all that great… a blue chip like doncic doesn’t come around often so whatever you need to do to get him… even if it’s frank… or even kp…. and maybe even both … you go and do it…
the problem is trading future picks for marginal or even negative value…. and treating a future pick as a nothing asset… but if you had a chance to trade for a KD in the draft…. something that generally NEVER happens but if the opportunity came up… that is absolutely an appropriate time to go all-in on that…
anunoby is good value for #9… and I would get greedy and ask for delon wright also….
@65 and @66
I agree about trading picks. Picks are an asset that need to be valued correctly just like players. Just because we traded them away foolishly in the past does not mean we should never trade them again. As long as you are getting good value, there’s no reason you can’t trade them. I’m a little reluctant to move the 2019 pick because we are still so far away from being a serious team and will probably not be very good next year unless KP comes back sooner than we expect. That means that 19 pick may have a lot of value. But if we had a chance to add a legitimate star player, you almost have to consider using picks (as long as they are protected in a reasonable way). You need 3 stars. If you have a chance to get one, you have to try.
I’m one of the more hesitant posters here when it comes to trading picks and I’d trade any single future first along with our #9 if it guaranteed us Doncic. I simply think he’s that good. I obviously hope we’re actively exploring any and all avenues to getting him but I’m inclined to believe the first not insane team to have a chance at drafting him will elatedly take him and run.
I’d make the rumored Memphis deal so god damn fast that I feel like I must be missing something. I mean shit, I view Parsons’ contract as better than THJ’s to be honest. THJ is a better player but that doesn’t say a whole lot and they’re both worthless to the Knicks with Parsons expiring sooner (and also likely not getting in the way of any tanking plans). I’d make the deal completely regardless of what happens with picks 1-3.
I could possibly see the sixers and Toronto making a trade. Kyle Lowry going home would make sense because of his defense and shooting but his contract is huge. Hometown kid coming home rarely workout but man would he be Chauncey Billips 2.0 minus the playoff success.
Try #9, 2019 pick, and Noah for DeRozan. (This is the Knicks and Masai we’re talking about)
All those of you pushing very hard to trade up should read this article:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23795646/2018-nba-draft-centers-deandre-ayton-marvin-bagley-easily-replaceable
It talks about how most of the projected top picks are centers, even though the league has plenty of centers.
Toronto actually needs a good big man, so I can see why they are interested in a top pick this year. They may also be interested in saving salary in the future, but not actually saying that.
Why should we give up two picks to move up 5 spots if we’d already be taking the worst contract? I could see our pick plus 2019 protected for the Memphis pick but if we’re taking back Parsons we don’t need to throw in another 1st. Dropping to nine is the cost of dumping his contract.
@74
Now you’re talking!
If we take his contract back at the cost of adding salary it should be a wash.
That’s what makes Ayton to Phoenix even more confusing. He’s also not the best rim protector/defender. Just take Doncic!
This draft, for whatever reason, seems to be big man heavy when it comes to talent. It’s possible that with kids leaving early it’s harder to tell who the good guards are, since guards are slower to develop than big men.
If we could somehow get Delon Wright + Anunoby for a package involving the 9th pick then hell yeah sign me up.
But it’s Masai we’re talking about, he’ll probably make us take CJ Miles for the 9th and nothing else.
OK, I’m in Schmitz/Givony video analysis mode.
If I were making the #1 pick, I’d be torn between Doncic and Bamba, who I think is an absolute monster. I worry a little bit about his high center of gravity (like KP) but I see a future HOFer in this kid. He’s just so long, athletic and skilled and I can’t imagine him not getting much better offensively with the tools he has already. And he moves his feet well enough and has the length to defend NBA wings on the perimeter. He might be the guy who both Z-Man and Jowles can love at the same time. As to Doncic, it’s hard to argue with what he’s accomplishing right now. He’s not an NBA athlete by the numbers, but seems to hav enough between the ears that it won’t matter much. Being that we have KP already, I’d be inclined to pick Doncic but Bamba is pretty freaky.
Ayton seems really solid, but doesn’t strike me as being great, at least for a consensus #1 overall pick. He’s like a bigger and stronger but less coordinated Amar’e, or maybe a Shawn Kemp. Bagley doesn’t impress me at all, I think he will be good but disappointing relative to his draft position. Both of these guys seem to be overrated in the same way that Josh Jackson was overrated last year.
I am not impressed at all with JJJ’s offense at all. He’s an excellent defensive player but his shot looks terrible and I have deep concerns over whether it will translate vs. NBA defenders. Frankly, I’d consider taking Mikal Bridges over him.
I’m also not enamored with Porter Jr. beyond the back issue…seems soft. With the injury concerns, I’d stay away from him.
More…
Carter bugs be in that he is really a liability as a perimeter defender. Is he a LMA-type, i.e. another guy the game is passing by?
Trae Young is a guy I’d like on my team. My guess is that he consistently gets more points for you than he gives up on D. You definitely will have to mask his liabilities, but the guy is 2-3 steps ahead of everyone else on O. He’s definitely in the top-5 for me.
Sexton is not my cup of tea, broken shot and not a great passer. Like his motor, though!
Chandler Parson might actually be a good trade for us.
The 9th pick is so blurred that I dont want to get into rumors and just wait for the draft night.
Trades are welcome also.
I just listened to Zach Lowe’s recent podcast about the draft. Apparently, lots of people know Memphis would like to trade the pick and get rid of Parson’s contract, but people aren’t sure what Memphis’s goal is to get in return. If they mainly want salary relief, then I don’t think we can help them. If they want usable players, instead of an unusable one, we could give them Hardaway. But, unlike most of Knickerblogger, I think Hardaway has value. If we traded him and the number 9 for the number 4 and Parsons, that would be a good deal for Memphis. I’d only want to do that if Doncic were available, and I don’t think Memphis does any deal if they can get Doncic. So basically, I think it’s a no go.
So, bottom line for now:
I’d give up assets to trade up for:
Doncic
I’d pick in a heartbeat if they dropped but probably won’t be available, not worth trading up for:
Bamba
Young
I’m hoping they won’t be available because you’d have to pick them:
Bagley
JJJ
Carter
Porter (less so)
Will possibly/probably be available but I’m ambivalent and ultimately have to trust the FO’s judgment:
Sexton
Mikal
Walker
Knox
SGA
Would happily trade down for if it means getting another quality asset:
Sexton
Knox
Walker
Miles
Zhaire
@82 I might do that deal for Bamba or Young. Unlike many here, I see KP as more of a 4, somewhere between Dirk and Duncan (position-wise, not talent-wise…at least not yet!) And we don’t really need TH2 since Ntilikina is also a 2.
If Memphis wants cap relief we can offer them Kanter’s deal or we can just absorb Parsons into our salary cap if Kanter opts out.
I firmly believe that Conley, Hardaway Jr, Mikal Bridges, JaMychal Green, and Marc Gasol is a playoff team, and that’s for certain if they keep Tyreke Evans. The Knicks should make that trade on draft day, but I have my reservations about anybody other than Doncic at that position. Maybe you do your due diligence around the league and see if the top 3 teams will indeed pass on Doncic and make that trade tomorrow just in case Memphis gets cold feet.
If we trade TH2 and add Parsons, we’d have Lee, Noah, and Parsons all expiring in 2020, which is a year too late considering that Irving and Leonard are available next summer and not in two seasons. If the Knicks could land Doncic without sacrificing future draft capital, Ntilikina, and Porzingis, they should do it no matter what. Burke, Lance Thomas, Tim Hardaway Jr, and the #9 pick for Parsons and Luka Doncic would be the basketball gods smiling on us despite our desire to not tank.
I doubt Memphis is that dumb. Someone will make them a better offer than the #9 and TH2. And it’s highly questionable that Doncic is available at #4.
Look, Memphis can’t stay in the mid-lottery and get another playoff contributor AND get cap space. That’s a pretty tall order. The Sixers could do it if they weren’t chasing Lebron. The Bulls could absorb a lot of money, but only really have Bobby Portis to give them. Orlando and Dallas probably aren’t interested. There’s Phoenix, but then they only get #16 and, idk, TJ Warren?
It really depends on where they want to be flexible (my guess is the pick, it will probably be something in the late teens. They are historically terrible at drafting anyway.)
The Knicks can’t trade Kanter until after he opts in.
Maybe the Hawks give John Collins and #19 and #34 for #4 and cap relief? Honestly, a team is just as likely to hit on 19 and 34 than on 4, it seems. Then the Hawks could pair Trae and Bamba!
Tim Hardaway Jr and Mikal Bridges is a pretty sweet deal when you put them between Conley and Gasol. I really don’t believe Memphis can beat that.
Based on what I read and saw tonight, I don’t think Doncic is going to be available at #4. More importantly, I believe Memphis is dangling the #4 out there because they don’t think he will be available either. If he is, they are going to draft him. They just don’t love anyone else in that range and would make a move if offered the right deal. So unless there’s someone else we love available at #4, this conversation is probably a waste.
Choosing between Trae and Bamba wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
Tim Hardaway is owed $50,000,000 on his contract? How is that salary relief?
According to reports, Memphis has gotten lots of offers. There aren’t even enough contracts in the league worse than Hardaway to make those reports true if Hardaway is really the best offer they’ll receive.
It’s more than that. Don’t forget: we gave him a 15% trade kicker, because 4 years, $71mm, and a player option wasn’t enough.
He’d be a $20mm/year player for Memphis. I can’t imagine they want to touch that.
Lee is more realistic. Bridges is the young player they want. Lee is a useful bonus. He makes $36mm less than Parsons and can play.
It depends on what Memphis wants, which is unclear. If they want salary relief, they aren’t going to get it from NY, but I am sure other teams are making offers. If they want a contender THJ and number 9 might be the best they can get. They can’t have it both ways.
Let’s just pick 9th and not screw it up, k? Thanks.
On that topic, I’m surprised so many people “out there” are so damn high on Knox.
I agree that Doncic will not be there at 4. I’d be just shocked if he gets past Phoenix and Atlanta (however, some sources are now saying that Bagley is going to go 2nd).
However, I’d still do that pick + Parsons contract for THJ/Lee and fodder to match salaries (Mudiay?) before the draft. Then talk to other teams to prepare for Doncic not being there on draft night. Maybe a team in the 6-8 range covets someone and would give us something to swap picks.
Worst comes to worst, take the next best player on your board, and it better not be Kevin Knox.
That trade is not going to happen, of course, but no harm in fun speculating to fill the time until draft night.
Lee makes $26m less. And to make salaries work out, they’d need to include Lance Thomas who adds an additional 3 years of uselessness. So, again, no relief.
Is a healthy Lee/Thomas combination better than just rolling the dice that Chandler Parsons is able to cobble together a mostly healthy season or two at the same production, and just hang onto the #4 pick?
If the Knicks had the #4 pick and traded it to dump Joakim Noah, only to bring back the same amount of cruddy contracts in return, I’d be pretty upset. (Actually, I’d feel pretty good knowing that all is right in the world:)
Oops…in earlier post I meant Sacramento (now rumored to be taking Bagley)…
BTW, isn’t LT’s deal for one more guaranteed and a team option for next?
The draft interest in Doncic is weird. On the Zach Lowe draft podcast, Mike Givorny of draft express said that GMs are behind coaches in their appreciation what kinds of players are valuable in the modern NBA. A lot of them still want big men who can score. And Phoenix seems set on Ayton, and Sacramento set on Bagley, so Doncic is then number 3 at the highest possible for him. I would be surprised if Atlanta doesn’t pick though.
No team option, but if he’s waived before 2020, I guess he doesn’t have to be paid the final $6mil.
So, a $6mil savings that comes after Chandler Parsons is already expired in exchange for the #4? Sounds like a pretty weak offer to me.
The Doncic is dropping talk also probably has to do with the rumors that he doesn’t want to go to a small market team, and all the top 4 teams are super small markets. The wild card in this situation is if Memphis wants to move out precisely because they feel Phoenix is picking Ayton and both Sacramento and Atlanta are passing on Doncic because of this. Then they would be stuck with one of Bamba / Bagley / JJJ when they probably would much rather draft a wing player.
If that’s the case, and I think it’s hard to believe those rumors are actually true, I don’t see why teams like Chicago or Philly wouldn’t make better offers than the Knicks could, or even Dallas. It’s been a very weird pre-draft period for sure.
Philly isnt goint to take on 20 millions now that is a contender and can sign free agents (like Lebron). What player does chicago have that Memphis might want? Certainly not Lopez or Asik, because Memphis has Gasol, and they dont have many other high salary players to make the deal work. And is Dallas really going to take on salary to rise one position in the draft?
THJ might not be great, but at least is healthy and young, and can fill certain role in their team if Memphis is trying to compete for the next two years. #9 also lets them add a wing. But I really believe that this deal must be done before the draft, if Luka falls to #4, they will draft him. Besides, with Gasol in the team (who loves Memphis), I dont think they will have trouble convincing Luka to go there.
Maybe the Knicks are leaking that Trae had a bad workout to discourage other teams from picking him…